Why American women don't choose to study STEM

Despite decent grades, good opportunity and energetic efforts for more than forty years, American women generally choose not to study in the STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) fields. Lots of studies try to blame discrimination, but they cannot identify exactly what that is. I think it might be … wait for it … choice.

There is an interesting Mckinsey study about women and STEM in different places. The U.S. ranks very low in attracting the best and brightest women into STEM.

Women become less interested in STEM in college and men become more interested. One reason, is that men just mature slower. At eighteen, women are much more advanced academically. Men catch up during college and in STEM fields prosper. But another interesting reason may be choices. In other countries, students, men and women are tracked sooner. Women have fewer choices so they stay in STEM and many thrive.

If you look at the figures, STEM is much better for the career. Petroleum engineers made almost $120,000 just out of college. Psychology majors are lucky to make $20,000. Guess which attracts mostly women and which is mostly men.

Our society spends a lot of time and effort encouraging women and girls to want to do science. There are girls science camps, support groups for women in science, scholarships and lot of other things. Woman make up significantly more than half of all students in college, but not in the STEM fields.

Maybe this is not really a problem. People can choose what they want. But if we think it is a problem, maybe it would be more effective to limit choices, rather than multiply them.

IMO, some of the most useless fields in school are PC ones like gender studies and the various feel good ethnic studies. These clowns spend most of their time figuring out how they are put upon and aggrieved. If a woman, or a man, transfers from a STEM field into something like this he/she is really making a big mistake. We should make these things more rigorous and therefore less attractive.

The problem is not attracting women into the STEM fields; it is keeping them there. It may be hard to make these difficult fields of study more attractive. Maybe we can make some of the alternatives less so.

BTW - when I was in college, I had a room mate from Pakistan. He and compatriot friends all were studying engineering, but they had trouble making the grade. So they all double majored in engineering and African-American studies. They achieved Cs or Ds in the engineering core, but could get As in African-American studies w/o much effort or even class attendance. Their overall GPAs stayed above 2.5, since As in their other major kept them up. They stayed in engineering too, since their parents made them do it. But you can imagine a situation where a student might simply default into the easier course of study, but come out with a useless degree.

Posted by Christine & John at September 17, 2013 1:29 AM
Comments
Comment #370802

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Women used to lag in all fields. Now, they earn the majority of bachelors, masters and Ph.D. degrees. Look around. There are a lot more female doctors, lawyers and CEOs than there were twenty years ago. In a few more years, women will dominate all major professions. They are already in the pipeline and they are superb at networking. The STEM field will be next. Just a matter of time.

Posted by: Rich at September 16, 2013 9:58 PM
Comment #370811

Rich

I don’t worry about it, but government does. We have hundred of programs to encourage girls and women in STEM. The president mentions it.

You are right that women are well positioned, but there is bureaucratic inertia. For example, we still have women’s development programs in university, despite the fact that the problem is generally with getting enough men in most programs. Maybe we are seeing the results of the war on boys and men.

So let’s declare victory in the discrimination battle and move on. Put all that gender grievance industry out of business.

Posted by: CJ at September 17, 2013 5:41 AM
Comment #370814

C&J,

I don’t think that women are about to declare victory just yet. They still haven’t achieved parity, let alone superiority, in the ultimate field of power, politics. But, they are a gathering storm. No politician can ignore their voting power today. Women are increasingly separating themselves from male voters. It is only a matter of time before women gain control of the sources of political funding. Then, you will begin to see a flood of female candidates at all levels.

Posted by: Rich at September 17, 2013 9:11 AM
Comment #370818

Choices are never made in a vacuum, nor without history creating its own influence.

You make this assumption in there that it’s really about women not wanting to do things that are hard, or about some sort of liberal program. No, I think it’s more cultural, and I think that will change over time.

From the time when I was just a little boy up until now, I’ve seen a tremendous change in female attitudes towards dress, towards which jobs are appropriate, towards which roles women play, etc.

So, I expect things to change over time, as more liberal attitudes become more common in society in general.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 17, 2013 12:49 PM
Comment #370820

Ahh C&J,
Last time I checked my passport it was US issue, birth certificate says I’m female… I worked in the electronic and aeronautical field in the Air Force, electronics on Ships, can rebuild the engine in my car or other motorized equiptment I own and even know the basics of construction and electrical wiring of a house. Though plumbing is a bit of a mystery still.
Now my oldest daughter graduated from Maine Maritime, capable of operating any size vessel; then achieved a teaching degree from U Maine in Mathematics but also covered some Science and some English as well. My youngest daughter also enjoys the fine arts and sciences.
I am sure there are many others out there too, since many of my teachers have been women.

Posted by: Kathryn at September 17, 2013 2:11 PM
Comment #370823

Let’s see:
C&J points out that “American women generally choose not to study in the STEM fields.”
Says by 18 “women are much more advanced academically.”
Points out that women make up more than half of college students.
Says that women thrive in STEM fields in other countries.
And points out that the US could possibly learn something from other countries when it comes to more American women choosing STEM fields.

But you all think C&J are belittling women?

Am I the only one who actually read what they wrote?

Posted by: kctim at September 17, 2013 3:33 PM
Comment #370825

I read it too kctim and agree. When John says “Red”, they defend “Blue”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 17, 2013 3:50 PM
Comment #370826

Stephen

It depends on what you think quality of life means. Maybe women are choosing life over career. The grievance industry wants them to choose a certain career path over life.

If women choose to change, it is their business.

Kathryn

You made your choices. Good. I would not want to stand in the way, but I also see no reason why we should necessarily push others into it.

Stephen, Kathryn et al

I do think we can stand down on all the affirmative action and special plans. Evidently, we are succeeding. We may make the mistake of overshooting, as we did with female college enrollment in general. It seems unnecessary to encourage those who are already doing better.

Posted by: CJ at September 17, 2013 4:14 PM
Comment #370834

C&J et al,
Some decisions are brought about by necessity. I was not able to go to college until after my military career, in my 40’s. I simply could not afford it after high school and in 1980 the military was a much better option for me.
I just don’t see how applying criteria to a particular group of individuals helps reduce prejudices and recognition of the uniqueness of each person. Each is living as they see/affect events around them. Sometimes we don’t perceive these as choices, other times we do. It doesn’t have to be fun or sad, it is just life.
I don’t believe we have a right to force our beliefs on others. However, it is nice that because of the Constitution & Bill of Rights, I can at least speak what I believe. :) So long as the NSA doesn’t mind :) .

Posted by: Kathryn at September 18, 2013 8:54 AM
Comment #370835

I want to add one point. The decision to continue studying a STEM field or to abandon it for something easier is not made in a vacuum. The reality is that society still expects men to be breadwinners and this expectation induces men to persevere when things become difficult, whereas women might be more inclined to seek a career elsewhere. Change the culture and you will change the outcomes.

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 18, 2013 9:00 AM
Comment #370837

Warren,
If the culture of abuse - physical, verbal, mental would change. AND that abuse STOP at home and at the workplace then and only then could I concede you part of your point. And yes, I know that the abuse does not have a strict male or female boundary - it happens to both.

Unless you are a member of that group you can have no idea of the impact it has on your and your family’s life.

Posted by: Kathryn at September 18, 2013 9:34 AM
Comment #370841

Katryn

Everybody has opportunities and constraints. Both of us succeed in spite of challenges.

I have a daughter and two sons. I don’t think the boys have advantages over my girl. In fact, her life has been easier in many ways. I have thought about their lives versus mine. They are “luckier” in that their parents are well off and college educated, unlike mine who were HS drop outs and poor. But in many other ways, I was advantaged. Interestingly, I always knew that my parents couldn’t help much financially, so that made me more independent. I could cut them off, of course, but that implies a different decision than my father simply not having the money.

We live in a nation of individuals. We should not have special pleading for “women” or “blacks” or “Hispanics.” We should be taking about Americans.

Warren

You have a good point, although I am not sure you are picking up both ends of the stick. Women still have it EASIER in the sense that they are not pushed and shamed in the same way.

In my MBA call, ALL the women were interviewed before the first male interviews in many firms. One of my female friends got a job offer at General Mills, a great firm that we all wanted for market research, the day BEFORE my first interview. Three of my female friends got top jobs at General Mills, American Express and HP. Within a couple years, all three had “downshifted”. They had reasons, but they COULD. A man would be ridiculed and criticized for giving up. These women were praised for wanting more out of life than work. This is a major variable that feminists don’t talk about.

Change this culture, i.e. make woman feel as bad as you can make men, and things will change.

I know that we often try to pretend that success is just something we get, but successful people I know give up other things to achieve it. Maybe it is not “right” but it is hard to give someone the same success who puts in less, even if they claim it is “more.”

In the last couple years, I have been more successful than ever. One reason is that I am living by myself. C stayed in the U.S. to pursue her career and the kids are adults. I have been lucky, but another important reason is time on task. I can work almost all the time and can travel at a moment’s notice. A person who cannot or will not do that cannot accomplish as much, other things being equal. I was LESS successful when I “had a life.” I am not sure I would want to do this forever, but it would be really unfair is a woman or a man who did less go the same reward.

Posted by: CJ at September 18, 2013 2:40 PM
Comment #370857

This idea that women avoid the STEM fields because it is too hard and flee to easier fields is utter nonsense. Wishful thinking on the part of many males seeing women beginning to dominate academically and professionally in all other fields. Why do they outperform males in all other fields? I am sure that many male doctors used to think that women could be great nurses but not doctors. Oops!

Actually, women don’t avoid all the STEM fields. They receive the majority of BA and advanced degrees in biology. Probably because it is a necessary academic foundation for medical school. Just a matter of time before women set their sights on engineering as a viable and desirable life option.

Posted by: Rich at September 18, 2013 7:33 PM
Comment #370858

RIch

I think it is too EASY for them to flee to others. I have had to stick to things I didn’t much like because I am a man and I cannot give up. This has helped my career. We cut women more slack on this. It is the same we do for blacks. The soft bigotry of low explanations.

Women may well take over. This is another reason that we can stand down on all that affirmative action crap.

Posted by: CJ at September 18, 2013 7:55 PM
Comment #370859

C&J,

I don’t think that we have cut them too much slack. In my opinion, women deserve a huge round of applause for their achievements over the past few decades. I disagree with the idea that women benefited from the “soft bigotry of low expectations.” Their academic achievements and professional advancements speak for themselves. They were earned given the opportunity.

Posted by: Rich at September 18, 2013 9:50 PM
Comment #370870

Rich

They certainly do not benefits from the soft bigotry. Many women who could do well in stem drop out because they have the option of doing so shamelessly.

I worry that I may have done that with my own kids. My youngest son and my oldest daughter are good at math. My daughter was taking science and chemistry. When it got harder, she defaulted into humanities. I supported her decision. She could continue to get really high grades and do something where she could study truth and beauty.

My son is studying computer engineering. It is hard with lots of higher math and mind numbing programming. He is taking about defaulting into “global studies.” I did not support his decision. I told him he was nuts to give up on his good major half way through and told him to work harder. I explained that after he had the tough stuff behind him, he could still study the truth and beauty stuff, kind of on his own.

Perhaps I learned a few things in the last few years and now I know they should stick it out. I would probably give my daughter different advice today. But it might also be the soft bigotry. I wanted to be gentle with my little girl and I am much harder on my son. Perhaps I she would have been better served by a little harder kick in the rear.

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