Romany Malco Writes 'Message to Trayvon Martin Sypathsizers'

Actor Romany Malco remained quiet with his regards to the the Zimmerman trial verdict until now. Malco wrote a blog post on Huffington Post, and it’s unlike anything we’ve heard on the news, or read in any other form of media. His honest remarks are refreshing after almost a week of ignorance blasting our media outlets.

Romany Malco wrote:
"So rather than facilitate more racism outcry, I'd like to address young black people specifically.

I believe we lost that trial for Trayvon long before he was killed. Trayvon was doomed the moment ignorance became synonymous with young black America . We lost that case by using media outlets (music, movies, social media, etc.) as vehicles to perpetuate the same negative images and social issues that destroyed the black community in the first place."

Malco then concludes his post saying, "Education, introspection, self-love and excellence are the only ways to overcome the wrath of ignorance." He really hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter how you become educated. There are some incredibly intelligent people who never went to a university, but still became educated. Bravo to Romany Malco for sharing your insight.

You can read Romany Malco's full post here.

Posted by bigtex at July 19, 2013 11:00 AM
Comments
Comment #368549

This is a great article. It’s refreshing to hear a black man associated with Hollywood who has the boldness to tell the truth. I am shocked that the article is reported on the Huffpo.

I have always been of the opinion that some people are born losers. I know it sounds hard; but some people cannot be helped. The more we find out about Trayvon Martin, the more we find he suffered from the same problems as many young black men. He was doomed; if it had not been now, it would have been later. That is sad to say.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 19, 2013 4:12 PM
Comment #368550

Obama’s speech today is designed to insight riots and protests. Problem is, these silly protesters tear up their own neighborhoods.

Posted by: DSP2195 at July 19, 2013 4:52 PM
Comment #368553

Political Hostage,

Perhaps, but we don’t know. A lot of young people go through a dark path but come out of the other side for the better, irregardless of their ‘race’. I have personally counselled many and have hopefully been able to help more than not. Time will tell on that front.

That’s the real problem in this country, too many people are too caught up in wanting to hate someone that they forget that the other person is a human being with feelings as well. Some react by being openly hateful, others hide behind their guilt of their hate and overcompensate, trying to help the poor folk in ways that not only reinforces their own stereotypes, but ends up doing more harm than good. Coddling a poor black man who is not acting responsibly by trying to tell him its someone else’s fault not only instills further hatred in a generation that should have it in their hearts but it also reinforces the notion that they are incapable of getting through life without the help of the very people who think that they aren’t capable, because of the color of their skin, to rise above their station…

We need more people holding individuals responsible for their actions and fewer people looking for ways to gain control over other’s lives with their ‘good deeds’. Really help people, not harm them while convincing them you are doing them good.

Posted by: Rhinehold at July 19, 2013 5:22 PM
Comment #368554

And btw, hate comes from a place of self-loathing, perhaps we could start there and eliminate it from our society instead of rewarding it?

Posted by: Rhinehold at July 19, 2013 5:24 PM
Comment #368555

“I said [earlier] that this could have been my son….” Obama said in the White House briefing room. “Another way of saying that is, Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago.”

This is not true. Obama’s son would have been a child of privilege, as are his daughters.

The president should just stay out of this or try to behave like a president, not a partisan. He grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii. He was brought up in a white household. Many white Americans have more of the “black in America” experience than does our president.

Posted by: CJ at July 19, 2013 5:43 PM
Comment #368556

Exactly Jack, all he did was fan the flames of racism all the more.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 19, 2013 5:51 PM
Comment #368557

What is striking about Malco’s article is that he openly admits that Trayvon Martin was very likely racially profiled by Zimmerman. He justifies this targeting on the grounds that persons of Trayvon’s race and age have it coming to them. It is their own doing.

Great! What if the jury had been allowed to consider this “honest” assessment of Zimmerman’s motives and prejudice? Would the elephant in the room have made a difference?

This was clearly a tragedy. A young man doing nothing illegal, with no history of burglary or violent assaults, was targeted as a probable criminal, tracked down and killed in a violent confrontation. But for his race and age, it probably would never have happened.

I am not quarreling with the jury decision. The facts of the physical exchange and shooting are unclear. However, it is clear that many, including Malco, think that race and age probably played a significant and justifiable part in triggering the deadly sequence of events. Martin should not have had to die for the collective perception of young black males. We should not forget that fact.

Posted by: Rich at July 19, 2013 6:13 PM
Comment #368558

We need more people holding individuals responsible for their actions and fewer people looking for ways to gain control over other’s lives with their ‘good deeds’. Really help people, not harm them while convincing them you are doing them good.
Posted by: Rhinehold at July 19, 2013 5:22 PM

Amen Brother. We have every right to expect those we help, who are able, to actively and energetically seek to help themselves to not become burdens on the government. If that means taking a job “beneath ones qualifications and dignity” or below some imaginary pay scale, it should be pursued and embraced. All honest work is honorable.

Government resources are finite and each dollar spent to allow someone to leech off the work of others must be ended. Our collective resources should go to those who can’t help themselves and not to those who can.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 19, 2013 6:26 PM
Comment #368560

“This is not true. Obama’s son would have been a child of privilege, as are his daughters.”

C&J,

An absurd denial of reality. Obama is simply referencing the color of his skin. No amount of privilege or money can change that fact or protect one from profiling. Whether it was Obama thirty five years ago or his son (if he had one) today, they very well could have been subjected to the same profiling as Trayvon Martin in some gated community anywhere in the country.

One can argue, as Malco does, that this profiling is justified. But fact of the matter is that the vast majority of black youth are not criminals and innocent black youth are caught up daily in a web of collective guilt.

I thought that conservatives were the champions of individual accountability and rejected collective thought. Well, I guess not when it comes to racial profiling.


Posted by: Rich at July 19, 2013 6:34 PM
Comment #368561

Rich

I am a person of white and have been profiled on many occasions. As a young man, the police routinely stopped me on my way to work to ask where I was going.

I am also still treated very differently based on how I dress. When I work on the farm and wear my work clothes, I get a different reaction than when I am wearing a sport coat. Actually, I am often treated BETTER at the truck stops when I am wearing work clothes.

I once shaved my head. People definitely reacted differently. I recall people avoiding my gaze and getting out of the way. This is how it is for blacks dressed as “Gangstas”. I suspect some of them like the feeling of creating fear.

ALL of us profile ALL of the time. It is how we survive. Everybody knows that a black young man in gangsta clothes or even a hoodie over his head is statistically more dangerous than the same young man wearing a blazer and slacks. MOST of the time, neither is a real threat, but if you make the mistake, you could have trouble.

It really gets a little silly when people dress and behave in a way designed to create a particular image and then pretend to be shocked when people get the message they are sending.

We are dealing with probabilities. Young black men are much more likely to commit violent crimes than any other group in our society. It would probably be sound advice for young black men NOT to dress in ways associated with criminals.

Martin also profiled Zimmerman as a “creepy ass cracker.” In fact, Zimmerman was Hispanic, so Martin got it wrong. That is the problem with trying to profile.

I have heard blacks talk trash about “rednecks” by which they usually mean rural whites. If a black were stopped at a gas station and noticed “rednecks” coming his way, would he not have some of the same qualms whites AND blacks have about young black men in hoodies?

As Jesse Jackson says, “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps… then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

BTW - President Obama lived a privileged life. He really doesn’t have any standing to personalize this.

Posted by: CJ at July 19, 2013 6:42 PM
Comment #368562

Rich, either you didn’t read the Malco link in its entirety or you misunderstood his message.

Here’s more from what he wrote…

“We’d spend less time subconsciously repeating lyrics about death and murder and more time understanding why we are so willing to twerk to songs that bemean women and boast of having things we cannot afford. We’d set examples of self-love for our youth by honoring our own hair, skin and eye color. We’d stop spending money on designer gear that we should be spending on our physical and psychological health. We’d seek information outside the corporate owned-media that manipulates us. We’d stop letting television babysit our kids and we’d quit regurgitating pundits we haven’t come up with on our own.

C/J included the quote; “Education, introspection, self-love and excellence are the only ways to overcome the wrath of ignorance.”

Isn’t that very true?

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 19, 2013 6:56 PM
Comment #368563

Rich, as a black man, I got none of what you say out of Malco wrote. What I do expect, judging from your comments, that the left will do what they do best. Attack Malco, because he takes a personal responsibility approach. You will simply be the first of a long string of personal attacks on Malco. Before it’s over, he will be called an Uncle Tom (as Adrienne did to me just a few days ago), or he will be called worse.

Rhinehold, you are correct, but the deck is stacked against them. We now know that Martin was involved in fights, experimented with drugs, came from a single parent home, and no doubt had an attitude. He was the tuff guy that wasn’t going home until he confronted this “crazy ass cracka”.

Re/Obama’s interview; he should have never stuck his nose into this from day one. But…I have already said that Holder was lying when he stoked up the NAACP and today Obama told them there would probably be no civil rights charges brought against Zimmerman. It was a lie to stoke them up; but they knew from previous FBI investigations that they had no case. It was never about race; but the 75% of the liberal media’s coverage and the left’s comments have been about race. Obama brought race into it when he spoke before charges were ever made against Zimmerman.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 19, 2013 7:03 PM
Comment #368564

C/J writes; “It really gets a little silly when people dress and behave in a way designed to create a particular image and then pretend to be shocked when people get the message they are sending.”

A great sentence and right to the point. We can’t judge the inner person if we don’t even know them. Our first impression of anyone is going to be prejudiced in some fashion by our unconscious thoughts and experience. We can’t control first impressions. Our first impressions are also affected by the circumstances in which we first meet. In a dangerous location we tend to judge people differently than when in familiar surroundings.

When I am traveling in a foreign country I am always much more aware of my surroundings and people than when I am home and in familiar surroundings. That’s a good thing and related to our survival instinct.

We hear of good “Samaritans” helping strangers much less often now than forty or fifty years ago. We have read of incidents of violent crime being perpetrated upon an innocent person with a crowd of people watching and doing nothing to help. We are becoming detached from true human feelings by fear…fear of the unknown.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 19, 2013 7:13 PM
Comment #368565

I wrote; “We are becoming detached from true human feelings by fear…fear of the unknown.”

I should hasten to add, also the fear of being judged in haste and hatred.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 19, 2013 7:21 PM
Comment #368566

Royal Flush,

I read the article and the quote. Barack and Michelle Obama have said the same thing, most recently at a black college graduation this year. But, it doesn’t say anything about the fairness of criminal racial profiling and the consequences for innocent black youth.

I thought you guys liked the idea that people should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin?



Posted by: Rich at July 19, 2013 8:46 PM
Comment #368567

Rich

We are not talking about racial profiling, but behavior and clothing profiles. That is why I think that Obama’s statements are so ridiculous.

It is unfortunate that the majority of innocent young black men get lumped with the bad ones. But if there is anger, it should be aimed at those gang-bangers who create the problems for all.

Posted by: CJ at July 19, 2013 9:01 PM
Comment #368568

There should also be anger aimed at the rotten young men who kill and rob. They are the plague on the black community. It is very rare for a white man in authority to kill a black young man. Unfortunately, young black men kill other young black men with monotonous regularity.

The best thing the black community could do is to shut up about “oppression” by the authorities and work harder with the police to get the bad guys off the streets. The fact that President Obama divert attention from the real problem shows his true priorities.

Posted by: CJ at July 19, 2013 9:07 PM
Comment #368570

Zimmerman should sue the ”Trayvon Martin” trademark holders.

BHO should shut up. The neighborhood where Michelle Obama grew up, South Shore, now has the highest number of shootings in the city this year. There’s nothing wrong with the neighborhood, it’s not “inner city”, it’s not a slum, it’s just where shooting idiots live.

The most disturbing program that I’ve seen in the last year was The Riots in Their Own Words. Hoodies should be banned.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 19, 2013 9:39 PM
Comment #368571

“We are not talking about racial profiling, but behavior and clothing profiles. That is why I think that Obama’s statements are so ridiculous.”

C&J,

Oh, come on! Sure, clothing and behavior play a part. But to deny that skin color is a dominant profiling method is to deny the obvious. It is, in my opinion, a legitimate concern of law abiding black persons.

Posted by: Rich at July 19, 2013 9:45 PM
Comment #368572

A far more significant statement on the Trayvon Martin case and race relations came today from President Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/obama-trayvon-martin-speech-transcript_n_3624884.html

He gave an unscripted, extemporaneous press conference without the benefit of a teleprompter, and it resulted in a remarkable moment. Obama addressed the case, the criminal justice system, and points made by conservatives and liberals alike in regards to the case. More importantly, and for perhaps the first time, President Obama spoke as a black man, a black man addressing the black community and its pain and anguish over this case, the cause, the outcome, and the context. It was one of the finer moments of his presidency.

Posted by: phx8 at July 19, 2013 9:54 PM
Comment #368573

Rich

The 9/11 call shows that Zimmerman was unable to identify Martin’s racial group until he checked much closer. In other words, he focused on Martin because of his behavior and dress.

There is a lot of BS when it comes to racial profiling. For example, how possible is it to “profile” a driver on a dark freeway?

We accept too much of this race idea. I think it is because, some white people feel guilty for being white. I don’t. None of us should feel guilty for anything we did not purposely do.

We have to start calling out these foolish things.

How would the trial have gone differently if a 27 year old black neighborhood (a guy like Martin plus 10 years) watch and gotten into an altercation and killed a 17 year old Hispanic (a guy like Zimmerman minus 10 years), who the black guy identified as suspicious?

On the evidence, the jury would not have convicted the black man.

Race is simply not the issue it was a generation ago. It is terrible that a young man is dead. But that does not mean the it was murder or that racism was at work.

Posted by: CJ at July 19, 2013 10:06 PM
Comment #368574

Was just watching a ‘whodunnit’ on tv and the narrator made the comment, ‘don’t open the door for anyone you don’t know, period’.

I can recall the 40-60’s time period in my N. Ga. community. I, or any member of my family, would stop along the highways to help anyone who looked like they needed it. Today, wouldn’t consider it in that community nor any other part of the country.

I suggest that in the days of Jesus it was more like that. Small communities where people knew most everybody. Most belonged to one tribe or another. My daughter gets off work late in the evenings and I encourage her to keep her doors locked, don’t stop for nothing or nobody exceopt a cop and even then she should continue to drive to a populated area before stopping, etc.

In todays modern society profiling is a way of staying alive. I suggest these store cameras aren’t checking to see what you are shopping for as much as they are checking you for shoplifting, whether you are white or black, etc.

Do you feel more or less safe in this globalised country?

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 19, 2013 10:13 PM
Comment #368575

I spend the winters in Florida, not far from Sanford. The bank that I deal with has a sign up not allowing hoodies to be worn over the head and sunglasses to be removed. Why do you suppose they do that, would it be considered profiling?

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 19, 2013 10:33 PM
Comment #368577

You’re not allowed to wear a hat or sunglasses when entering my bank either. I lived in Florida for fifteen years and went to Sanford on business many times. It rains there A LOT. A cap would be more practical than a hoodie. The profiling argument is completely ridiculous. Trayvon was a loose cannon from Miami in a town where even the criminals are mild mannered and mostly very polite.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 19, 2013 10:56 PM
Comment #368578

I visit a gated community in FL about once a year over the past 15 years. Hundreds of houses.

No blacks.

Not one.

Posted by: phx8 at July 19, 2013 11:01 PM
Comment #368579

phx8

SO what? It indicates that some people like to live in communities with people like them. Many of these people are probably bigoted. It doesn’t say much, or maybe anything about the greater society.

Like you, I believe in integration. I like it better when people of various races live in close proximity and work together. I have observed, however, that lots of people like “their own kind.” It is as much in evidence among blacks as whites. I recall an instance where a white woman I knew was dating a black man. The black women was openly hostile to the relationship. Openly. This was wrong, but it is part of life.

ohrealy

Actually, you are right about hoodies and the rain. It is probably absolutely the worst thing to wear in the rain, as the cotton absorbs the water and the whole thing gets wet. I used to wear “hoodies” before they were called by that kind of wussie name. I wore them in the winter, under my coat and used the hood in the snow. But it was no use in the rain.

Of course, many “fashion statements” are impractical.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 6:57 AM
Comment #368581

I don’t understand phx8’s comment. As I have said, I spend the winters in Florida; my place is in a gated community; and I am black. There are many blacks and Hispanics in gated communities. In fact Zimmerman, an Hispanic, lived in a gated community. So that blows whatever theory you were trying to establish out of the water.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 20, 2013 8:37 AM
Comment #368586

Jessee Jackson was on CNN this AM talking about race and the economy. He gave the same usual reasons for the plight of poor minorities. Lack of transportation, education and so on - - -

IMO, the major reason minorities aren’t doing well is the same reason all working folks are becoming less well. Corpocracy - - where gov’t is owned/operated by corporate monopolies/conglomerates. This has led to great inequalities in wealth, 1% owning 40% of everything, etc. This trend ramped up with the Regan era of ‘greed is good’.

Corpocracy continues the trend by putting some 50% of folks on SNAP and welfare programs. Corpocracy is willing and planning to keep poor folks on life support while their fortunes zoom off into the stratosphere.

Labor Dept - - middle class wages down 4% since the ‘end of the recession’. Researchers warn that wage growth is likely to decelerate “long after the unemployment has returned to more normal levels. Manufacturing still shedding jobs, etc.

Reason for the unbalance - Corpocracy. DC officials want to set a minimum of $12.50/hr for six Wal-Mart stores looking to build in the District. Wal-Mart threatening to pull out, etc. What the hell does $7/hr buy in this country?

The solution is not more jobs, more SNAP, more education, etc. We need to establish some metrics for anti-trust, bust up the conglomerates. That can’t be done without busting up corpocracy and that will require abolishing corporate personhood law. And, that can’t be done without a new 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att and so on - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 20, 2013 10:21 AM
Comment #368587

Converting a few million illegals to citizens is really piling on - - but it will be a big plus in helping corpocracy get the average worker wage down to $5-7/hr, etc.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 20, 2013 10:29 AM
Comment #368588

Political Hostage,
It is not theory, it is just a statement of fact. There are places like that. The gated community I visit is large, wealthy, upscale, and very, very conservative. As a conservative, you would fit right in.

They would like hearing your views in the clubhouse and on the golf course. But you would not be allowed to move in.

Because you are black.

But cheer up. They really hate Obama.

Posted by: phx8 at July 20, 2013 12:05 PM
Comment #368589

Phx8

“They would like hearing your views in the clubhouse and on the golf course. But you would not be allowed to move in.” In all my travels in the U.S., I have never seen a place with such a discrimination.

You really should not go there. It is an anomaly in our great country and you should not enable. I would not willing associate with racist such as they and neither should you.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 12:48 PM
Comment #368590

So Romany Malco sends a message directly to black kids, urging them to fight ignorance with education introspection self love and excellence. Very insightful and a message that black kids indulging in the gansta thing should heed.

I guess the part that I missed but evidently our conservative friends here on WB have picked up on is that some how this absolves Zimmerman and his ilk from any wrong doings. You are grasping at straws here guys.

From the comments it seems Zimmerman is just a victim and now has absolution because a black man from Hollywood has spoken. It’s kinda like encouraging all black kids to arm up and feel free to shoot any white guys they may come across because some white guys belong to the KKK and other hate groups. That is what Zimmerman did in reverse.

Do we all profile others? Sure we do. Why is it a problem, because when those in authority and those that use deadly force, as Zimmerman was, profile it results in death way to often. Needless death, wrongful death. To think that wearing a hoody make you a gansta is ridiculous. To think that it rains in FLA so wearing hoodies is impractical and this somehow justifies anything is illogical.

Zimmerman has set gun rights back with his abuse of the right. It will come back on those that defend him and his actions.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2013 1:27 PM
Comment #368591

phx8

You have set up a false dichotomy.

Every serious commnetator, here and elsewhere, has accepted that Zimmerman acted foolishly and nobody is happy that Martin was killed.

The question is whether Zimmerman is guilty of murder. Most serious observers recognize that he is not.

Various race activists have tried to exploit this case for racial reasons, implying or saying that if Zimmerman had been black instead of Hispanic the trial would have gone differently.

There is no reason to believe that if a black neighborhood watch person had killed a Hispanic youth in similar circumstances that the outcome of the trial would have been different.

RE wearing hoodies - I commented on this myself. People do indeed “profile” based on appearance and what you wear is something you control. Most people know that the way they dress communicates about them.

The hoodie has come to be associated with gang behavior because people associated with gangs have made it so. It is indeed a simple garment. I have worn it myself. It is too bad that those gang knuckleheads have ruined its association. We assume that Martin was not trying to look tough by wearing such a thing, but a big an muscular young man dresses as he was may tend to excite suspicion.

And as we established, Zimmerman “profiled” based on that. He was unable at first look to identify Martin’s race.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 2:12 PM
Comment #368592
Various race activists have tried to exploit this case for racial reasons, implying or saying that if Zimmerman had been black instead of Hispanic the trial would have gone differently.

Yes indeed various race activist have….
http://occupydemocrats.com/watch-2-racists-attempt-to-start-a-riot-at-a-peaceful-trayvon-martin-protest/

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2013 2:16 PM
Comment #368593

So now we have Rich and j2t2 commenting on Malco’s right to comment.

J2t2, gun rights have not been set back. Gun owners and defenders of the 2nd Amendment rights will continue to hold their politicians feet to the fire. Zimmerman was found not guilty of murder. He was well within his rights to defend himself under self defense laws. He chose not to use the SYG laws as a defense. Obama, Holder, Sharpton and Jackson are trying to use SYG as a political tool. It is wrong and they are wrong. They have divided the country even more than it was. Yours and the other liberals on WB have continued to try to make an issue out of a non-issue

phx8, your comments are beneath you. At my age, I have been in many places where I wasn’t wanted. If I was not wanted in a neighborhood, because of the color of my skin, I probably wouldn’t live there. But, we ive in a free country where it’s against the law to discriminate against someone based on his skin color. I don’t believe you have ever been to such a place and I don’t believe you have any proof of what you say and will say whatever it takes to promote your views of racism. I believe you and the rest of the left are the racist. I will tell you why; I have been going to Florida in the winters for many years. The people who live in these gated communities, especially the upper class communities, are northern retirees. They come from NY, PA, NJ, MI, MN, WI, OH, etc. I know these people very well and many of them are Democrats. Your claim that they are racists is false, I don’t care how many times you visited their gated communities.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 20, 2013 2:23 PM
Comment #368594

Phx8

Re gangs - let’s also be clear. Black gangs kill hundreds or thousands of black kids every year. We really should concentrate on that and not on the one case where a Hispanic neighborhood watch man kills one black did in dubious circumstances. That should be left to the courts, as it has been.

Interestingly, if you take two identical African-American teens from the ghetto of Chicago and put one in the Army in Afghanistan and leave the other in Chicago, the one in Chicago is more likely to die violently.

More young blacks were murdered by other blacks this year alone than in all the lynching of the 20th Century and blacks are much more likely to kill whites than the other way around. That is the problem the civil right community should try to solve.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 2:27 PM
Comment #368595

j2t2 & Phx8

The above was addressed to J2t2. Unfortunately, I “profile” people who use initials and numbers and sometimes cannot tell them apart.

Re the racists in the car - in your link a see a couple of pudgy white assholes. In a country as large as our, we have lots of such people. It doesn’t make it dominant. We will never reach a time when there are not people like that. We all reject them.

Racism is bad no matter who practices it. I have no respect for those two fat guys any more than I do for Jackson or Sharpton. The difference is that pretty much everybody knows the two in the car are stupid, whereas we would get an argument about Sharpton and Jackson.

But all that said, the protester acted well - as they should have. They would have no right to react violently to these guys.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 2:37 PM
Comment #368596

C&J, the hoodie is just a ruse used to demonize Martin. You would have us believe that because gangsta’s wear tennis shoes or jeans or earrings that it is the fault of the particular piece of clothing that is guilty of making the wrong connection and profiling the person, not Zimmerman who conservatives would have us believe was unable to distinguish right from wrong because Martin was wearing a hoodie. Defenders of Zimmerman have exaggerated the gangsta thing to justify the unwarranted stalking and subsequent accosting and shooting of an unarmed youngster.


http://www.wikihow.com/Dress-Like-a-Gangsta

Where is the hoodie that is such an important part of the gangsta wardrobe?

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/24/149245834/tragedy-gives-the-hoodie-a-whole-new-meaning

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2013 2:42 PM
Comment #368599

When I was in the Air Force, I made friends with people of all skin colors and considered them “my people.” In the service, everyone has a similar education, has the same “get the job done” attitude, has the same haircut and wears the same clothes (military uniform) in accordance to strict military bearing, discipline and appearance. To use words from Dr. Martin Luther King, because the conduct of our character was measured to the same standard, skin color became irrelevant. They are my brothers and sisters and we deployed to Afghanistan and adapt and overcame harsh conditions together as a family.

Contrast the service to the civilian world. What does a stereotypical black person look like? What does a stereotypical white person look like? What is the stereotypical attitude of black people? What is the stereotypical attitude of white people?

How you conduct yourself and present yourself to the world says more about you than the color of your skin. Now that I’m a civilian, I’ve worked with many successful black people and I’ve identified a few characteristics about them:

1. They want to be successful and work hard.
2. They speak intelligently.
3. They dress professionally.

Those are pretty simple characteristics to being successful. Some of the individuals I’ve met have had poor educations growing up. However, thanks to their attitude of wanting to be successful and working hard, they achieved their goals.

Barriers exist for black people. I don’t deny that. However, there are no barriers that exist today that cannot be overcome. Successful black people are proof of that. Maybe we should listen to them rather than the media?

Posted by: Cannelure at July 20, 2013 3:10 PM
Comment #368602

I’m curious as to why this case is so important to so many people. Why the non-stop media coverage?

Posted by: Cannelure at July 20, 2013 3:28 PM
Comment #368603

Dream on Adrienne.

Cannelure; Bill Cosby has given many speeches, even to the NAACP, about this very thing dealing with the black youth of America.

Posted by: DSP2195 at July 20, 2013 3:30 PM
Comment #368604

CJ & Political Hostage,
I go to that segregated gated community to visit in-laws. Oddly enough, it took a long time for me to even notice there were no blacks. There is not much for me to do when I visit, so I walk and mile or two after every meal. By the way- even though I do not live there, not once have I ever been stopped or questioned, presumably because I am white and 56 years old. And while I have been in the clubhouse many times, I do not golf, so I have never noticed if they allows blacks to play. I normally don’t think much about diversity and that kind of thing.

The make-up of the community is predominantly retired. They are presumably wealthy- think of the doctors in white loafers set, and retired executives driving Lincolns. A lot of people in FL come from other places, generally the the East Coast and Midwest. That’s a safe assumption. Also, the distribution of wealth probably has an influence, because whites possess a disproportionately large amount of wealth, and blacks less.

Part of the racism is a function of age. Many people from the older generation simply took for granted attitudes that most of us now perceive to be racist. Thanks to education and the teaching of tolerance for diversity, along with anti-poverty programs and affirmative action, we have come a long way with race relations, just as we have come a long way overcoming other forms of bigotry and hatred. But even now, we still have the Republican Party platform and bills calling for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, and we have people trying to blame a victim- in this case, an unarmed black kid- for being murdered. We still have a long way to go.

CJ, segregated communities have been around for a long time. They rely on an unwritten code. Eventually, nature will take its course. With the passing of the current generation of retirees and a fairer distribution of income over time, gated communities may still exist, but segregated gated communities will become a thing of the past.

Posted by: phx8 at July 20, 2013 3:31 PM
Comment #368605
j2t2 & Phx8

The above was addressed to J2t2. Unfortunately, I “profile” people who use initials and numbers and sometimes cannot tell them apart.

C&J, I took it as a compliment. Confusing my rants with the writings of Phx8 shows just how easy it is to make mistakes when profiling groups of people.

J2t2, gun rights have not been set back.

Not yet perhaps, but don’t fool yourself that this misuse of a concealed weapon isn’t a nail in the coffin, Political. The arrogance of the NRA types who think Zimmerman deserves a medal for his actions, as a conservative acquaintance of mine remarked, will not serve them well. Many people can see that allowing Zimmerman types the right to conceal weapons, to be allowed to register and use deadly weapons leads the country in the wrong direction.

SYG laws are useful, but lethal weapons in the hands of the untrained small minded hero wannabe’s ruins it for all of us. The result will be more laws, more complex and confusing laws, that will become “gotchas” for those that use firearms as protection against predators. Defending Zimmerman is a lose lose proposition,IMHO.

Zimmerman won the battle but the war isn’t over, he is in hiding for a reason. Retribution may or may not be the price he pays but the continuing and escalating violence of the Zimmerman stories we continue to see will result in a frustrated public demanding a solution.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2013 3:36 PM
Comment #368607
Dream on Adrienne.

With information like that coming out, the Martin family may want to do something more than simply dream of fairness and justice.

Btw, after reading Malco, maybe some of you will want to check out this op-ed:

Open season on black boys after a verdict like this
Calls for calm after George Zimmerman was acquitted of murdering Trayvon Martin are empty words for black families

Posted by: Adrienne at July 20, 2013 4:37 PM
Comment #368609

It is difficult to understand attitudes and opinions regarding Zimmerman and his trial outcome. Protests are being undertaken in some areas of the country and many on the left, writing here, say justice was not done.

Why are all these folks not protesting the prosecutor (who failed to convince the jury) or the jury that failed to convict? Why is all the anger focused on the defendant rather those controlling the proceedings and the jury?

Bottom line, did Zimmerman get a fair trial? If not, why not?

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 20, 2013 5:01 PM
Comment #368610
CJ & Political Hostage, I go to that segregated gated community to visit in-laws.

phx8, give me the name of that “segregated gated community”; I have a black lawyer friend who would love to check it out.

Where I live, I have never been stopped or questioned either and of the 600 or so places in our community, there are only a handful who are black. But we get along just fine with the neighbors, on and off the course.

Also, the distribution of wealth probably has an influence, because whites possess a disproportionately large amount of wealth, and blacks less.

I have found, it’s hard for people to get ahead when the government wants you to live on welfare and food stamps. Getting ahead in life requires more than a redistribution of wealth, it requires an ambition to do better.

Part of the racism is a function of age. Many people from the older generation simply took for granted attitudes that most of us now perceive to be racist. Thanks to education and the teaching of tolerance for diversity, along with anti-poverty programs and affirmative action, we have come a long way with race relations, just as we have come a long way overcoming other forms of bigotry and hatred.

You talk as if the progressives just started their anti-poverty programs. You do realize the “older generation” you speak of, are the baby-boomers don’t you? The education and the teaching for “diversity, anti-poverty, and affirmative action” started in the 60’s. That means the retirees you speak of, who come from the northeast (a liberal bastion) and the northern Midwest (also Democratic strongholds) are the ones who are buying property in Florida, in these gated communities. So are you saying the education and teaching these people received was for nothing. If you are referring to the WWII great generation, then you are wrong. They are dying off. The ones that are still alive in Florida don’t come out of their houses except for doctors visits, could care less about politics or racism, or are in a vegetative state. So once again, you are wrong.

and we have people trying to blame a victim- in this case, an unarmed black kid- for being murdered.

You can’t let it rest can you. There was no murder, it was a self defense killing. No matter how many times you anti-constitutional leftist say it, there was no murder of an innocent victim. I would imagine a case for slander could be made by Zimmerman’s lawyers.

j2t2;

SYG laws are in effect in 50% of the states. Illinois was the last remaining state that denied CCW, but thanks to the courts, they were forced to allow conceal carry. Conceal carry is here to stay; millions of Americans are going through the training getting their CCW every year. Every state has self defense laws and SYG laws are an extension of the self defense laws. They protect the person who is defending himself from civil law suits and other protections. They are here to stay. The left has lost the gun control battle.

Zimmerman won the battle but the war isn’t over, he is in hiding for a reason. Retribution may or may not be the price he pays but the continuing and escalating violence of the Zimmerman stories we continue to see will result in a frustrated public demanding a solution.

So you are supporting or predicting vigilantism?


Posted by: Political Hostage at July 20, 2013 5:38 PM
Comment #368612
Bottom line, did Zimmerman get a fair trial? If not, why not? Posted by: Royal Flush at July 20, 2013 5:01 PM

Not according to Adrienne, she is calling for a mistrial. Of course, you can’t put much stock in what Adrienne says; she’s prove to be mentally challenged.

Regarding Zimmerman’s verdict; j2t2 is calling for vigilantism. I’m sure many on the left is salivating at the thought of Zimmerman and his family being forcefully taken from their houses and hung from the nearest oak tree. Then justice would be served. Scary isn’t it. No wonder they want to take the guns away from Americans.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 20, 2013 5:49 PM
Comment #368613

Political Hostage,
I think I’ll let the residents of that area work out their own race relations. Relationships with in-laws are tricky enough as it is.

The generation I was referring to is not the Baby Boomer generation, but the generation prior to that- people in their 70’s and 80’s, for example.

Royal Flush,
I think you ask very good questions. A lot of people feel a great injustice has been done. It required a national outcry for there to even be an arrest and trial in the first place. Whether a person agrees or not, many people feel that reflected an attitude that it was because the victim was a young black man, and that if it had been a young white man who was killed, there would have been an immediate arrest.

The legal system produced an outcome. Some have second-guessed the prosecutor. There are some questions about the jurors. There are a lot of questions about the law itself.
How could a system of justice produce such an unjust outcome?

Zimmerman has at least some degree of culpability in the eyes of many people, yet he is a free man. To many, that seems like a basic violation of what is right.

Most people accept the rule of law, the judicial process, and the jury’s decision as a decided outcome. Protests have been peaceful, for the most part. But there is a fundamental feeling of disbelief and anger, a sense that the system of justice produced a bad and unjust outcome.

I’m not trying to take a side, just describe the reaction and its possible causes.

Posted by: phx8 at July 20, 2013 5:58 PM
Comment #368618

What kind of outcome did you expect when the President of the US, the Attorney General, and two race bating black so-called preachers do their best to stir up race riots?

Please explain to me what generation existed between the great generation and the baby boomers? It seems you don’t know as much about Florida’s population as you think.

I think I’ll let the residents of that area work out their own race relations.

It’s a shame Obama, Holder, Sharpton, and Jackson didn’t feel the same way.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 20, 2013 6:37 PM
Comment #368619

phx8, thanks for your reasoned response. What mystifies me is why there is not national outrage at all the disproportionate killing of black men in large American cities by whatever color or age the murderer happens to be.

Let me pose a hypothetical: Suppose both Martin and Zimmerman had been black men with the same outcome. Would there then be the same hue and cry of injustice? If not, why not?

As I understand the law, anyone can use self-defense as an excuse for using deadly force. It is not limited by race, age or gender. It then becomes the job of the legal system to prove that deadly force was not warranted if it wishes to prosecute. Can anyone argue with that? We do still have a presumption of innocence…for everyone…every time, and everywhere.

That is what happened in the Zimmerman case. Why the outrage against SYG in this case when it was not used as a defense? Isn’t SYG available as a defense by anyone (black, white, or pink) in the states which have such laws? Is SYG racially motivated or available to all?

I believe it would be more effective to hold these rallies lamenting the murder of our black youth in the cities and neighborhoods where most of the crimes occur. If one wishes to truly diminish the murder of our black youth, it makes perfect sense to begin where most are dying unnecessarily.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 20, 2013 6:53 PM
Comment #368620

j2t2

I repeat - Zimmerman acted foolishly. But it did not constitute murder and, since Zimmerman could not identify Martin’s race at first, maybe because of the hoodie, it is not a race issue.

As of July 4, more than 200 black youth were murdered by other black youth in 2013 in Chicago alone. The biggest threat to black youth is not some Hispanic neighborhood watch.

Are you afraid to fly? Statistically, it is very safe, but when there is an accident there is a lot of talk. This is similar to this case. Every years thousands of young black kids are killed by other young black kids. We don’t hear much about it. That is a bigger scandal.

Re “Zimmerman won the battle but the war isn’t over” He is also a loser. He must live with the fact that he killed a young man. Few people can put that behind them.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 7:06 PM
Comment #368621

Political Hostage,
It’s clear you don’t care whether or not young black men like Trayvon Martin get profiled and end up dead. You don’t care about justice for his death because you’re a suck-up Uncle Tom for the rich white conservative class. Traitors much like Clarence Thomas and Herman Cain — men who benefited greatly as a result of what progressives have done to help black folks have more and better chances in this nation, but who when they get rich, turn their backs and act like progressives are now beneath them. Assholes all.

Go fuck yourself with a rusty garden weasel.

Posted by: Adrienne at July 20, 2013 7:18 PM
Comment #368622

I wonder if the “lady” writing above composed this gentle message while baking cookies for her church fundraiser?

Hmmm…it sounds more like someone who perhaps has had to much to drink…or…worse.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 20, 2013 7:39 PM
Comment #368623

Royal and Political

That is the way she is. It is part of her charm.

Adrienne

Re progressives - do we include Woodrow Wilson in that list of progressives of old?

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 8:04 PM
Comment #368626

Has it ever occurred to anyone that Zimmerman is probably a liberal and a Democrat? The media concentration on him is completely ridiculous.

The local commuter newspaper in Chicago, The Redeye, has a murder report most days. It’s mostly the same story, same neighborhoods, 75% black on black. I find it disturbing that vast areas of a city are being described as a ghetto just because black people live there. The areas of the city that might actually be considered a ghetto look very differently than you might think. There are many empty lots where the housing and especially the businesses are gone.

As far as the hoodie discussion, the purpose of the hoodie is to conceal. I used to wear them, but I found they are impractical since they limit your peripheral vision.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 20, 2013 9:17 PM
Comment #368627

Royal Flush,
The problems with violence in inner cities like Chicago are very different from the issue with Zimmerman. Blacks committing violence against blacks in cities like Chicago relate to gangs, poverty, the lack of opportunity, and more.

The problem surrounding Zimmerman involved profiling. It also involved an armed man following an unarmed man, and after a physical confrontation, shooting him. AG Holder made some interesting comments about what it is like to be a black man, and how he was “pulled over twice and my car searched on the New Jersey Turnpike when I’m sure I wasn’t speeding, or when I was stopped by a police officer while simply running to a catch a movie, at night in Georgetown, in Washington, D.C., I was at the time of that last incident a federal prosecutor.” Obama also made some unrehearsed comments at a press conference along the same lines.

As I said, I am white, so I do not have any experience with being profiled just because of my race. I think it is safe to say this is an extremely sensitive issue for blacks, and plays a major part in the disappointment and sense of being let down that so many blacks seem to feel.

I am not sure what is going on with SYG laws as they relate to this case. I’ve seen that the jury instructions reflected it, but you’ve also commented that SYG does not apply, so until I have a better idea, I will hold off on it. Generally speaking, I would say SYG laws are fine in the house, but inappropriate in public places. It encourages people to settle fist fights by shooting each other and then claiming self-defense.

By the way, I haven’t seen anyone comment on it, but as a juror, I would not have believed Zimmerman was in fear for his life when he was getting beaten by Martin (if that is what actually happened). Zimmerman may have been punched in the nose, and Martin may have been on top of him and causing some scrapes on the back of his head, but that is not a life threatening situation. No guy would think taking a beating would be life threatening, unless they were facing a martial arts expert with mad skillz, or were having bones broken, a concussion, and that kind of thing. However, a jury of women might have been much more willing to believe Zimmerman really thought his life was endangered.

Posted by: phx8 at July 20, 2013 9:24 PM
Comment #368632

phx8

RE “As I said, I am white, so I do not have any experience with being profiled just because of my race.” I doubt Holder really does either. Have you never been stopped and asked questions you thought were unnecessary? I have. As I wrote several times here, I used to be stopped regularly on my way to work in Milwaukee. My son, for some reason unknown or random chance, used to get special scrutiny at airports. Just a few months ago, I was in a restaurant where the waiters ignored me for a half an hour until I finally gave up and left.

If you are black, like Holder, you assume every slight, real and imagined, is because you are black.
i
Re being profiled because you are white - there are many areas in most big cities where you would definitely be profiled for being white and probably in great danger. My son was profiled by black teens near his own home and beat and stomped unconscious by them. They called him a cracker as they did it. But Zimmerman did not profile Martin because he was black. The 911 recordings show that Zimmerman did not have a clear idea of Martin’s race. He described what he considered suspicious behavior.

You disagree with the jury. I understand that. There is no doubt Zimmerman acted foolishly, but the jury decided that it was not murder. People like you want to get extrajudicial justice. Sometimes they used to call that lynching.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 9:57 PM
Comment #368634

For those wondering why this was a big deal, I guess it’s the heavy dose of irony. First, the victim was unarmed. It’s difficult to justify a killing as self-defense when the victim is unarmed and you are not. Second, the victim had committed no crime. He merely “looked” suspicious. If that weren’t an ascribed quality for blacks in America all that often, it would be one thing, but very often, as the President said, folks are pre-emptively suspicious of them.

I think what drives this controversy is that distance between the claim of equal protection of the law, and the reality. You can’t ask people to ignore it, not and call this the land of the free. You shouldn’t have to endure extra suspicion for being black. Blacks didn’t earn that suspicion, it was pushed on them by years worth of the institutionalized belief that they were just mindless brutes who needed greater constraint from the law because of the supposed lack of personal judgment.

As for crime and poverty, there are consequences when you hamstring the fortunes of an entire group of people on a systematic basis for centuries of time.

As for everything else? I hear quite a great number of white people listening to rap music and other stuff like that, and in decades past, people assimilated all the rest of their music, too, from ragtime to rock and roll.

I don’t think black young men got together and just decided they’d celebrate being dumbasses, crooks, and the like. I don’t think they decided that most portrayals of people like them in last few decades would be of either criminals or Cosby’s. I think they’ve been dealt the hand that many young people have been dealt, where many of the folks they see on screen are frat-boy morons who define themselves by their indulgences. Only difference is, decades worth of low expectations fall on young, poor blacks, fueled in part by racism and sensationalism. So folks act like the stupidity in music, movies, and TV shows that white kids like is imposed on them, while the stuff the black kids get shown actually represents who they are. A white kid listening to gangsta rap is just pretending, a black kid is aiming to grow up to actually be a drug dealer and criminal.

I think if folks took the stereotypes less seriously, the caricatures might ironically lose more of what little substance they already had.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at July 20, 2013 10:04 PM
Comment #368636

Stephen

Zimmerman did not have a clear idea of Martin’s race when he first noticed him “acting suspiciously”.

There were blacks living in the housing complex, BTW, and Zimmerman is Hispanic. It was not the case of a black man in a “white” neighborhood.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 10:17 PM
Comment #368637
As I said, I am white, so I do not have any experience with being profiled just because of my race. I think it is safe to say this is an extremely sensitive issue for blacks, and plays a major part in the disappointment and sense of being let down that so many blacks seem to feel.

phx8, I have had the experience; if you read just a few paragraphs earlier you will notice Adrienne’s comments. The only time I have ever been profiled is by liberal Democrats.

By the way, I listened as Holder talked of his profiling experience; but I noticed he never told us why he was pulled over as a federal prosecutor. Could it have been a traffic violation…who knows?

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 20, 2013 10:22 PM
Comment #368638

Oh, good lord, we once again have Mr. Daugherty on this post making accusations without evidence.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 20, 2013 10:27 PM
Comment #368640

On 6/12/12 a 17 year old unarmed whit teen was shot and killed by a 30 year old black man in Charleston, S.C. this tragedy never made it past the local news. Where is our fearless leader and Sharpton and Jackson? I haven’t heard any outrage over this killing or mention of white rioters or demonstrations.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 20, 2013 10:46 PM
Comment #368641

Political Hostage,
Read a little more carefully. Holder was running to a movie at night, in Georgetown, when a cop stopped him.

CJ,
Zimmerman DID have a clear idea of Martin’s race. Go back and read the 911 transcript. This is not in doubt.

“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.”

And:

“And he’s a black male.”[1:03]

Zimmerman says:

“These assholes. They always get away.”

Listen to the audio. At 2:22 Zimmersay says under his breath “F*****’ Coons.”

http://videos.mediaite.com/audio/Raw-Audio-911-Call-George-Zimme


Posted by: phx8 at July 20, 2013 10:48 PM
Comment #368643

phx8

I saw the transcript. He doesn’t volunteer the race. When asked, he says he looks black.

This shows that he was not immediately aware of race. How could he tell from a distance with a kid wearing the hoodie?

Beyond that, as above, the housing complex had black residents and Zimmerman is Hispanic, so the mere fact that a black man was walking would not have been unusual.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 10:58 PM
Comment #368644

I believe in rule of law. Indeed, when rule of law has failed, it is often minorities that suffer the most.

BTW - according to Tuskegee Institute there were 1,634 lynching during the 20th Century. About 2/3 of the victims were black. That was a period of 100 years, with most of the crime happening in the early part of the century. In 2010 alone, 5,942 black males were murdered. And while murder rates are dropping in general in the U.S., they are rising among young black men. So we spend months talking about this one case and while we were talking gang-bangers killed thousands.

The kind of discussion we are having here makes young blacks less likely to trust the authorities, when what is needed in dangerous neighborhoods is MORE cooperation with the police. It would save many lives.

Posted by: CJ at July 20, 2013 11:03 PM
Comment #368648
Not yet perhaps, but don’t fool yourself that this misuse of a concealed weapon isn’t a nail in the coffin, Political. The arrogance of the NRA types who think Zimmerman deserves a medal for his actions, as a conservative acquaintance of mine remarked, will not serve them well. Many people can see that allowing Zimmerman types the right to conceal weapons, to be allowed to register and use deadly weapons leads the country in the wrong direction.

If you think you can roll back concealed carry in the state of Florida, you have obviously never lived in the state of Florida. This isn’t Chicago or San Fransisco we’re talking about. It’s Florida.

Posted by: Cannelure at July 21, 2013 2:08 AM
Comment #368649
That is the way she is. It is part of her charm.

You’re just as bad as Uncle Tom. Your family history shows that you too would have ended up no where at all in this nation without first benefiting from the actions of the progressive left. And now every day shit all over progressives and what we try to do for everyone — because you’ve made it, so now you feel free to say the hell with everyone else. Despicable.

Another good op-ed:
The world is ghastover Trayvon Martin. The US needs to look at itself

This too is good:

CNN’s Don Lemon schools white conservative: ‘Your privilege does not allow you to see… certain circumstances in society’

Posted by: Adrienne at July 21, 2013 2:45 AM
Comment #368650

Above link should read “aghast over…”

Posted by: Adrienne at July 21, 2013 2:48 AM
Comment #368653

Adrienne

We cannot be in Lemon’s skin and he cannot understand ours. His experience is not superior. I could “school” him on lots of things and he could give me some. But neither of us can pull a trump card.

Before you react with your usual emotion, let me explain why I think attitudes like Lemon’s are so pernicious. The whole basis of a shared community and of intellectual life is that we CAN understand “the other” and share experiences we have not had ourselves. If a person like Lemon can pull a trump card like that, it negates all this. Pick up both sides of that stick. Lemon says that his experience because of his race is so unique that nobody else can question it. He is also saying that your or my experience in our ways is so unique that he cannot understand it. It is a recipe for constant conflict.

Re my being an “Uncle Tom” - as I recall the novel, Uncle Tom was a hard working guy who was oppressed by society.I am not oppressed by anybody. If you want to accomplish things, it is a good idea to put yourself in a position to do it. Complaining and protesting is fun and sometimes useful, but I prefer to get things done in my direct and practical ways. The wonderful United State of America gave me the opportunity to do good and well and I have done both. I am grateful for the advantages enjoyed by me and all Americans and I have used my intelligence, talent and hard work to improve our heritage.

People like you scream and shout about helping people and demand that other people do something. People like me are those people who get the job done.

I believe that America is fundamentally good and I do my part to make it work better. If you dislike America or want to make radical changes, I am indeed your enemy and you can call me despicable. As an American, I defend your right to be wrong.

You may now deploy your profanity.

Posted by: CJ at July 21, 2013 7:51 AM
Comment #368655
So you are supporting or predicting vigilantism?

Political, Vigilantism begets vigilantism. Zimmerman acted as a vigilante by concealing when he carried a weapon while on community watch. He ignored the police when he stalked Martin, and then confronted Martin becoming the judge jury and executioner. He went into hiding for a reason. So IMHO it is you supporting vigilantism. Zimmerman is predicting, not me, more vigilantism.

Regarding Zimmerman’s verdict; j2t2 is calling for vigilantism. I’m sure many on the left is salivating at the thought of Zimmerman and his family being forcefully taken from their houses and hung from the nearest oak tree. Then justice would be served. Scary isn’t it. No wonder they want to take the guns away from Americans.

Political, here you go profiling me as well as putting words in my mouth. Typical conservative BS. How touching you add the family into the equation, such sensationalism is worthy of Newsmax. As far as taking away guns from people you are mistaken, Were it up to me many if not all Americans would be involved in military and armed similar to Switzerland.

As of July 4, more than 200 black youth were murdered by other black youth in 2013 in Chicago alone. The biggest threat to black youth is not some Hispanic neighborhood watch.

C&J, Nice diversion from the actual issue. The problem is how illogical it is, you see one has to assume that because the issue is the Martin murder we are not concerned about the high rates of black on black murders elsewhere. How silly. But as we see in the conservative media it is the answer to deflecting the spotlight away from the Zimmerman case, as if black on black violence is the answer to the current issue.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/07/19/zimmerman-trial-triggers-right-wing-media-black/194977

Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2013 9:23 AM
Comment #368657

j2t2

The high rate of black on black murders gets a mention on the inside pages of a newspaper, if at all. When it is discussed, the debate often generates to accusations of racism.

Your link does that, BTW. Even Jesse Jackson admits he fears young black men at night. It is indeed unfair to the innocent. The problem is the fantastically high incidence of violence among young black men. The “stereotype” is based on statistics. If young black men committed crimes at rates similar to young white men, the stereotype would quickly disappear. What I was a kid, “made in Japan” went it was junk. When Japanese products improved the stereotype changed - very quickly.

The Martin case, when a Hispanic in some authority kills a black man, if a very rare case. It went through our justice system and we should move to the more important issues.

Posted by: CJ at July 21, 2013 9:44 AM
Comment #368658
The Martin case, when a Hispanic in some authority kills a black man, if a very rare case. It went through our justice system and we should move to the more important issues.

Yet here we are in a thread that is specifically about the Zimmerman case, the one where the guy with the hero complex, as you say, violating police advice to back down stalked and killed a 17 year old youngster. Martin is the victim, the dead guy. Somehow I don’t get the leap from a Hispanic killing a black kid to black on black violence. This doesn’t justify the acts of Zimmerman and the problems with the law that allows this type of vigilantism to go unpunished. We still have the same skewed message and diversions from the actual issue coming from the conservatives, as I mentioned earlier C&J.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2013 11:55 AM
Comment #368660

CJ, I believe Adrienne is referring to me as the Uncle Tom. Considering I black, I consider her comments as racist.

Re/vigilantism; Zimmerman was found not guilty. Perhaps j2t2 has some proof that the prosecution did not have; or perhaps j2t2 is like Stephen Daugherty and just makes accusations based on pure emotion.

“Regarding Zimmerman’s verdict; j2t2 is calling for vigilantism. I’m sure many on the left is salivating at the thought of Zimmerman and his family being forcefully taken from their houses and hung from the nearest oak tree. Then justice would be served. Scary isn’t it. No wonder they want to take the guns away from Americans.”

Political, here you go profiling me as well as putting words in my mouth

I don’t think so j2t2. You have already shown you disregard for the Constitution by saying the trial and verdict were wrong. You continue to press the Obama/Holder/Jackson/Sharpton desire to protest and riot. The rioters are calling for the death of Zimmerman and his family; therefore we must conclude that you also call for vigilantism against Zimmerman and his family. If you did not, you would not be parroting and supporting these trouble makers.

Re/guns; you are a liberal and I have never met a liberal who did not want gun control. Therefore you are in favor of gun control. Time and space does not allow us to continue this debate because you would continue to deny; but I’m sure if we questioned deep enough, we would find you in complete support of the left’s gun agenda.

Cannelure is correct; there will never be a rollback in SYG or CCW laws. They are here to stay; but they sure do make a good excuse to take the attention away from Obamas scandals, which by the way continue to grow.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 21, 2013 3:21 PM
Comment #368661

j2t2

The thread is indeed about it. But among the things we can ask is whether this is a particularly important thing intrinsically, when it represents something like .005% of all the murders of blacks in the U.S. during the year, or is it being hyped for political gain. I think the latter.

I feel sorry for black mothers being so seriously deceived by the hysteria. I heard several reports of black parents claiming to be afraid to let their boys go out because they would be targets. They may have a point if they are talking about the danger from other young blacks. But they are seriously wrong if they are worried about white or Hispanic authorities. In fact, their advice is exactly wrong. If they avoid cooperating with the authorities, they are more likely to be in danger from gang-bangers and others.

So a good question for this thread would be that given the fact that the overemphasis on the Zimmerman case is causing this misapprehension that leads to poor and dangerous decisions, how culpable in the deaths of black teenagers are people who whip it up, such as Sharpton or Jackson?

Another question I suppose would be for us. How much are we contributing the the problem of murder among young black men by making this atypical case seem like the norm?

Posted by: CJ at July 21, 2013 4:00 PM
Comment #368662

Political

I think that Adrienne is referring to me as a “white uncle Tom.” In her mind, there are only a few types of people. Since her formulation is similar to many liberals, it is worth laying out the basic types.

- The poor and oppressed are good (with some exceptions, see below), as is anybody who espouses progressive policies (as she defines them) no matter what their income or wealth.

- Non-poor, non-progessives are always bad, but there are different kinds. Rich people who inherited money are easy targets. The ones she hates even more are people who used to be poor but now are not AND are not progressive. These sorts are an affront to her worldview, especially minorities but others too.

- Poor who are not progressives, she just considers stupid or beguiled, except if they are religious, in which case they can be bad even if poor.

My position offends her because I used to be poor and am no longer, but I do not support progressive policies. I am a type of apostate. You are even worse because you are a non-progressive black. Progressives actually doubt your existence. For progressives like her, you are like a coelacanth. Even when she see it, she refuses to believe it and looks for extraneous explanations.

We can take some pride in being living contractions of progressive reality. Progressive sometimes stumble on the truth, but they usually get up, dust themselves off and continue on their way to their slow-moving utopia.

Posted by: CJ at July 21, 2013 4:20 PM
Comment #368667
I don’t think so j2t2. You have already shown you disregard for the Constitution by saying the trial and verdict were wrong.

Poltical how silly of you to make such foolish statements. To think the Constitution doesn’t allow for my opinion to be expressed shows your ignorance of the constitution.

You continue to press the Obama/Holder/Jackson/Sharpton desire to protest and riot.

Once again Political you resort to misinformation in your silly attempts to prove yourself correct. Start over at the beginning of the thread and read what I have said not your foolish Limbaugh exaggerations of what you think I said.


The rioters are calling for the death of Zimmerman and his family; therefore we must conclude that you also call for vigilantism against Zimmerman and his family.

Yes more conservative logic, to bad it has no basis in what was said. You illogical rationalizations are a waste of time Political. It shows your inability to deal with what was said.

If you did not, you would not be parroting and supporting these trouble makers.

A youngster has does at the hands of a vigilante Political. These protestors are tired of seeing this happen to their youngsters. Protesting is as constitutional as it comes, to bad conservatives such as yourself disregard the constitution with such nonsensical prattle.

Re/guns; you are a liberal and I have never met a liberal who did not want gun control. Therefore you are in favor of gun control. Time and space does not allow us to continue this debate because you would continue to deny; but I’m sure if we questioned deep enough, we would find you in complete support of the left’s gun agenda.

Well such a loaded statement Political. Yes some gun control is needed. Zimmerman is an example of a lethal weapon in the hands of the wrong person. The Constitution doesn’t mention the right to kill youngsters walking down the street does it?

…how culpable in the deaths of black teenagers are people who whip it up, such as Sharpton or Jackson?

Howe pathetically weak of an argument C&J. Blaming Sharpton and Jackson for the deaths of Martin. How pathetically lame of an argument, even for conservative logic it is sad. You have lowered the bar C&J shame on you.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 22, 2013 12:06 AM
Comment #368669

If “gun control is needed” then why do gun grabbers have to exploit every tragedy and use the victims as political props in order to whip up enough support to maybe pass a law in the Senate and then watch it die in the House? It’s been 30 years since gun grabbers passed a federal gun control bill, so Americans obviously don’t see a need for more gun control. It’s really hard to take gun grabbers seriously when they need to exploit people’s emotions in order to pass gun control legislation.

Quite frankly, Florida doesn’t care what a bunch of California and New York liberals think about their gun laws. Florida was one of the first states to enact Stand Your Ground and conceal carry. One of the members of the jury in the Zimmerman trial had a concealed carry permit!

I’m curious as to what state you live in j2t2. Is it California? New York?

Posted by: Cannelure at July 22, 2013 5:14 AM
Comment #368670

j2t2

I am not blaming Sharpton & Jackson for that. What I am saying is that they are not only diverting attention from the real problem but perverting it.

The civil rights establishment has identified the problem of black young men being murdered at an appalling rate, but then diverted attention to an insignificant cause.

They are like a three pack a day smoker blaming his health problems on his neighbor’s fireplace.

If we eliminated EVERY case of innocent black youth being killed by authorities, even including folks like Zimmerman, we would be talking about less than one every year. Yet every year around 5000 black youth are killed.

So, if you are the civil rights leadership, which do you address?

RE “A youngster dies at the hands of a vigilante Political. These protestors are tired of seeing this happen to their youngsters.”

This has happened once in the last ten years. The protestors are misguided if they are “tired of seeing this”, since most have never seen it before at all.

What they see is ghetto violence and the crooks in the civil rights establishment have diverted their attention from the common danger to the vanishingly rare one.

Shame on you and them for helping to avoid the real problem that has probably killed a couple of black youth in the time between when you wrote your entry and I responded.

The Zimmerman outrage is completely synthetic. It was handled by the courts, as it should have been. The jury came up with the only just result the law could have allowed. Everybody hates that a young man was killed. But ask yourself this. If Zimmerman had been given the maximum penalty possible, is that likely to have prevented even a single death of a young black kid?

Posted by: CJ at July 22, 2013 5:26 AM
Comment #368671

Perhaps George Zimmerman should change his name to Ben Ghazi? Wouldn’t hear much about him then.

Posted by: Cannelure at July 22, 2013 6:20 AM
Comment #368676

When innocent children are shot dead, their parents are understandably upset. They go public wanting something to be done. They become politically involved. Gun nuts denounce those parents as “political props.” Of all the stupid, insensitive, brain-dead lines used by conservatives, that one takes the cake… as if it is somehow taking unfair advantage of the situation to publicly talk about how their children have been murdered by gunfire.

Does anyone really think the parents should just stay quiet and be good sports about it? Seriously?

Posted by: phx8 at July 22, 2013 11:41 AM
Comment #368683

What do the parents want done? The jury already found Zimmerman innocent; so to get politically involved; what exactly are they going to do? Overturn the verdict? NO. Repeal SYG, even though it wasn’t used as defense, sure, why not. It’s a fact that the Florida SYG laws have benefited blacks more than it has whites. Perhaps the parents like the limelight like Jackson and Sharpton? It’s a shame the parents weren’t as concerned about Trayvon when he was alive as they are now.

Posted by: Political Hostage at July 22, 2013 4:07 PM
Comment #368686

phx8, I’m not talking about the victims, parents or families of tragedies. I’m talking about the media, Obama and Democrats exploiting their grief and pain to advance the liberal agenda to infringe on the Second Amendment. The victims, parents and families have the right to say anything they want. For example, some of the victims of the Columbine school shooting and families of the Newtown tragedy are against gun control legislation. The media, Obama and Democrats do everything they can to keep those victims and families quiet. Evidently, if you’re against gun control, your voice doesn’t deserve to be heard. Liberals sure are a “tolerant” bunch, aren’t they?

The last federal gun control law that hasn’t expired, repealed or ruled unconstitutional was passed over 30 years ago. Gun grabbers know they have lost the culture war, so they must resort to exploiting tragedies. The only way gun control legislation can pass is when emotions run high after a tragedy. Gun grabbers only have a couple of months after a tragedy to shove something through Congress. All Republicans have to do is delay for two or three months after a tragedy and wait for emotions to fade. Gun control legislation always dies when rationality returns after emotions fade.

Another sign that gun grabbers have lost the culture war is that gun control has become a highly polarized partisan issue. Democrats own gun control. It’s political suicide for Republicans to support gun control. If “90 percent of Americans” support gun control, as Obama enjoyed saying after his gun control legislation was defeated, it would not be a highly polarized partisan issue.

Yet another sign that gun grabbers have lost the culture war is the stark contrast between gun rights organizations and gun control organizations. The NRA has increased its membership by a million new members after the Newtown tragedy despite vilification by the media, Obama and Democrats. The NRA is only one of many gun rights organizations. The Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership and many more organizations work to protect gun rights. The NRA, GOA, JPFO and other gun rights organizations continue to increase their membership base while gun control organizations don’t even report membership numbers. Without a significant membership base, gun control organizations depend on wealthy authoritarians like Michael Bloomberg. Without Michael Bloomberg and other wealthy authoritarians, gun control organizations would cease to exist.

Yet another sign that gun grabbers have lost the culture war is the landmark Supreme Court cases District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago. These two landmark Supreme Court cases rejected the liberal argument that the Second Amendment is not an individual right.

In District of Columbia v. Heller, the Court struck down provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 as unconstitutional, determined that handguns are “arms” for the purposes of the Second Amendment, found that the District of Columbia’s regulations act was an unconstitutional banning, and struck down the portion of the regulations act that requires all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept “unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock.” It was the first Supreme Court case in United States history to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.

In McDonald v. Chicago, the Court held that the individual right to keep and bear arms protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states.

Posted by: Cannelure at July 22, 2013 5:12 PM
Comment #368688

J2t2

I understand the parents. When my son was profiled and beaten by those six thugs I was angry too. It would have been thousands of times worse if they had actually killed him. In my son’s case, it didn’t even get to trial. The thugs got off and I think you could forgive my son for being a little suspicious next time six black young men pull up next to him. Of course, we all know that the chances of this happening again to him are small, but parents and victims will usually not take into account the statistical probabilities. However, others should.

Innocent kids being killed by authorities is very rare in the U.S. The police are not a significant threat and can usually be protection. In fact, my son’s life may have been saved by a police patrol that spooked the thugs. By far the largest cause of death among black males is homicide by other black males. I understand Martin’s parents anger and sorrow. In the time since they lost their son, however, at least one other set of parents lost a child to violence every day since then.

The civil rights establishment aghast at all the violence, but they have chosen the wrong target. If they truly aspire to lead their community, they need to do more to change the savage culture of violence that kills thousands every year. One of the tools they could use is greater respect for the rule of law.

Posted by: CJ at July 22, 2013 5:54 PM
Comment #368691
What I am saying is that they are not only diverting attention from the real problem but perverting it.

C&J, Diverting attention away from Zimmerman to discuss black on black violence is diverting from the issue here on this thread. Whilst black on black violence is a problem it doesn’t lessen the fact that Zimmerman types shooting black teens for merely walking down the street is a problem as well. Sharpton and Jackson have every right to focus on this type of crime if they wish. The conservative attempt to negate the work of Sharpton and Jackson by claiming it is a ploy because BoB violence exist is sad. Defending Zimmerman while doing so is pathetic.

Perhaps the parents like the limelight like Jackson and Sharpton? It’s a shame the parents weren’t as concerned about Trayvon when he was alive as they are now.

Political you continue to blame every one but Zimmerman for the death of Martin. Your lame accusations are illogical.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 22, 2013 7:50 PM
Comment #368692

J2t2

“Zimmerman types shooting black teens for merely walking down the street is a problem as well.” This is simply not true. This would be murder and the jury found that Zimmerman did not commit murder.

This is clearly NOT a problem. It is an anomaly related to foolish actions and foolish reactions on both sides.

I do not now and never have defended Zimmerman. I defend the rule of law and oppose racism that tries to elevate a rare tragedy to commonplace.

In the news in the last few days was a story about an evil black man who randomly shot down a 15 year old white girl. THIS is the scenario you are talking about. Are you aware of this case? Do you consider it an indictment of blacks generally? I do not because it is one case.

Re reason I bring up the thousands of black kids killed by other blacks is because the civil rights establishment dishonestly conflated the Martin case with those deaths.

What we have is a very rare case of an innocent black teenager killed by a Hispanic watchman.

What the Sharpton-Jackson folks could legitimately say is that this is really a terrible thing that draws our attention because it has become so rare. More Americans are killed each year by falls in the bathtub or lighting strikes.

An interesting thing has happened related to this. The civil rights establishment barked and did not get the reaction they expected. They used to be able to make their racist charges of racism and rely on white guilt to make it stick. Now we are no longer afraid of them. People are talking about this openly and the old debate stopper of race is not stopping the debate. I think when we look back on this, we will see it as the time when the race-baiters finally overreached.

BTW - The NYPD: Guilty of Saving 7,383 Lives. That is the figure FEWER than decades past.

Posted by: CJ at July 22, 2013 8:11 PM
Comment #368699

j2t2, Martin could have went to the house he was staying at. Martin could have run away and called the cops if he felt threatened by Zimmerman. Instead, Martin jumped Zimmerman and bashed his head into the ground, broke his nose and so on. Zimmerman defended himself from Martin’s attack. Both men made poor choices. Martin’s poor choices cost him his life.

Despite liberals trying to turn Martin into a martyr, most Americans will look at the facts of the case will see Martin has a man who made poor choices and got himself killed. The only racism that was involved was Martin calling Zimmerman a “crazy ass cracker.”

The only people who are outraged by this case are liberals who hate self-defense and guns. To liberals, Martin killing Zimmerman would have been morally superior than Zimmerman defending himself from Martin’s attack.

And what exactly would “Justice for Trayvon” look like? What do these protestors want exactly? The only way for Zimmerman to be convicted is to do so without evidence. Is convicting someone without evidence of a crime what “justice” is suppose to look like according to liberals?

Posted by: Cannelure at July 22, 2013 10:39 PM
Comment #368704

If you haven’t listened to Colion Nior, I suggest you take a few minutes out of your day and listen to what he has to say on his YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_n1Pb_ms7w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4n8egXfmJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbOGktZFMv8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFEgf4rtahM

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Comment #373377

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