Republican Enthusiasm Is the X-Factor

In the 2008 election, Obama won the electorates by a landslide, and it was all the enthusiasm from the Democrat Party that led him to victory. This time around it will be a lot different for the incumbent President leading up to the 2012 election. Many of the Obama supporters had “hoped” the economy would have recovered by now, or at least more than it has. After all, it has been nearly four years. If nothing has “changed” much since his election, how can they expect much to change in another four-year term?

The enthusiasm of the Republican Party is measurably higher than that of the Democrat Party. That has roughly reversed positions from where the Democrats were before the 2008 election. That's the type of viral boost that could actually win the election for Republicans in November.

If the economy is the leading issue going into the election, the Republicans will surely have the upper hand with Mitt Romney at the plate. Romney will need a stellar lineup in his campaign to lead the way, but there's no doubt that Romney has a little more edge than Obama when it comes to an economic debate.

Obama and Biden can hike every trail in America, showing their support for gay marriage, protecting women's issues, and trash-talking their opponent for the "war on women." The truth is, none of that will get them the enthusiasm the Republican supporters have. Gay marriage and abortion rights won't employ the 8.1% that are currently unemployed, or prevent American's homes from foreclosure, or make a car payment to avoid repossession.

The biggest challenge for Mitt Romney in this election is his inability to connect or relate well with the general American population. In retrospect, you wouldn't hire an "astronaut" to complete a mission in outer space because he's a cool guy, that you had fun with at a bar one night. You'd hire the best person based on their qualifications, experience, history, and education. Romney may not win a popularity contest, but this is about the economy not a superlative contest.

Posted by bigtex at May 29, 2012 7:11 PM
Comments
Comment #345145

Not all repubs are as excited as you would have us believe. Those with a wee bit of integrity seem a bit unsure of getting the same group of advisers that we just threw out 4 years ago. Do we really want to go into Iran? Can we afford to go to war on our grand childrens dime once again?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/colin-powell-mitt-romney-foreign-policy_n_1538945.html

While Marvelous Mitt cannot relate to us commoners, which I agree is a problem, the real issue with the flip flopper is his inability to get anyone on his team that wasn’t part of the GWB administration. Our memories are short but are they that short?

Posted by: j2t2 at May 23, 2012 8:52 PM
Comment #345151

Bigtex,
Republican enthusiasm. I see. Voter turnout during the Republican primaries was exceptionally low. Is there a quantifiable measure of Republican enthusiasm that you can name? Because I just named one and can demonstrate it with statistics. Can you? Just Google GOP voter primary turnout for the hard numbers.

I don’t doubt that many Evangelicals will not vote for Obama, but do you really think Evangelicals will bother to vote for a Mormon bishop? Really?

The stock market has BOOMED under Obama, one of the great bull markets of all time. Interest rates are low. Non-farm payroll has increased for 26 consecutive months, with that growth coming from the private sector. Government spending has remained flat. The manufacturing sector has seen 33 months of consecutive growth. Quarter after quarter, GDP has grown.

Osama bin Laden is dead. Khadafi is dead. GM is alive.

Romney seems utterly unable to make his economic case. His work in the private sector came at Bain Capital, and his campaign seems very confused about whether it is even ‘fair’ to discuss Bain. Would you like to hear some Republicans such as former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich or Texas Governor Rick Perry say what they think of Romney’s experience at Bain? Just let me know.

The GOP has a base that hates Obama, and not much else.

It’s so bad, Romney doesn’t even dare use an open mike at town hall meetings. As a senior McCain advisor noted, Romney fears the GOP base will ask crazy questions about birtherism. Think about that. The base is so deranged, the nominee doesn’t dare talk with them in a public setting.

Posted by: phx8 at May 23, 2012 10:07 PM
Comment #345153

51% of Obama Voters are enthusiastic about him, compared to 26% of Romney voters.

I think the Republicans are in a precarious position. Their dislike for Obama has to compete for their dislike for Romney. Meanwhile, independents have to fall in love with Romney, who has proven quite adept at making a horse’s ass of himself. I mean, he actually said, when asked about what he’d said about Reverend Wright earlier, “I’m not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said whatever it was.”

Once you’re done facepalming, you ought to realize that Romney has several more months to screw this up, and the rest of the country doesn’t need him near as much as the Republicans did during the primaries.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 23, 2012 10:11 PM
Comment #345157

Obama is barely winning Democratic parties, even w/o opposition. In Arkansas and Kentucky, 42% of Democrats chose not to vote for Obama. In West Virginia a convict living in a Texas Jail got 41% of the vote against Obama.

So maybe 51% of the Obama voters are enthusiastic, but there are not very many of them.

Posted by: C&J at May 23, 2012 10:47 PM
Comment #345162

bigtex: “If nothing has ‘changed’ much since his election, how can they expect much to change in another four-year term?”

You have to ignore a lot of economic indicators to suggest that nothing has changed much since President Obama was elected. But the entire campaign against Obama has been about misinformation anyway so it’s just par for the course that you suggest such a thing. Taxes are lower and spending has gone down under Obama but your side continues to hammer the President for not magically erasing these deficits he inherited from Bush. What your side seeks to do is let the folks who created the mess come in and finish the cleanup job Obama started so they can take full credit for it and pretend it’s Obama’s mess and not their own.

C&J: “Obama is barely winning Democratic parties, even w/o opposition.”

That’s not all that useful as information though, is it? Only opposition Democrats are turning out. The vast majority see no reason to take part in a decided primary. I worked a polling place in the AR primary on Tuesday and turnout was literally almost 100 to 1 Republican to Democrat. There were indeed though a lot of enthusiastic first time GOP voters though. That’s also good news for the process if not the party.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at May 24, 2012 8:22 AM
Comment #345173

Republican enthusiasm may be the ‘X-Factor,’ but Obama is the ‘Idol’ and, despite his disregard for our Constitution and his total disdain for half the population, he will be re-elected.

Sorry bigtex, but you need to stop dreaming of Republican enthusiasm and start preparing for what a second Obama term is going to bring upon us.

Posted by: kctim at May 24, 2012 11:16 AM
Comment #345192

bigtex,

I’m not sure about the validity of your points. The Democrats are somehow going to forget the actual events of the past 12 years. Not the events as reimagined, spun and twisted by FOX, Rush etc.We knew the damage that Bush/Cheney created. We knew going in that this administration had its work cut out to fix the economic disaster that was Bush/Cheney. Why would Republicans get fired up over Rove, Cheney and about eighteen other Bush advisers. If anything it will help energize Democrats to vote to keep them out.
“If the economy is the leading issue going into the election, the Republicans will surely have the upper hand with Mitt Romney at the plate.”
Really? A corporate whore who will only look out for the wealthy? Really? A destroyer of jobs and local economies. Really?

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at May 24, 2012 3:30 PM
Comment #345195

Judging from the lack of conservative comments, I’m guessing the enthusiasm for Romney is non-existent. Not even the author of the article can be bothered to support Romney. C&J managed a grand total of four sentences, and even that was all about Obama, and nothing whatsoever about enthusiasm for Romney.

Face it. Romney is poison, and he’s going to get shellacked. He can’t even do an interview on FOX without having to suggest Obama is “attacking capitalism.” The GOP base is so nutty, so extreme, so disconnected with reality, that Romney cannot even be in the same room with them without something bizarre cropping up.

Posted by: phx8 at May 24, 2012 3:56 PM
Comment #345200

Well, I bet there’s a whole lot of enthusiasm for Romney among rich, white, male, heterosexual, Mormons!

Posted by: Adrienne at May 24, 2012 7:31 PM
Comment #345204

As an active TP supporter, I can say that conservatives are fired up for Romney and he chooses Rubio as VEEP, they will be even more fired up. By the way Adrienne, the TP is not made up of rich, male, white people.

C&J, the 42% in Kentucky was for an un-named democrat running against Obama.

Posted by: Billinflorida at May 24, 2012 8:38 PM
Comment #345228

phx8

Re enthusiasm - I am traveling and have less time to comment. But I probably would not have commented too much on this anyway.

Romney is not the kind of guy who creates much enthusiasm, which is why he will be a good president. The presidents job is to make the best choices for the country and to work through our complicated democratic process in our complicated and diverse country.

This is a job for a calm and steady person, not a great campaigner or a community organizer who builds enthusiasm by promising things to some folks that cannot be delivered by others.

One of the problems with modern American democracy is indeed the requirements of constant campaigning and the need to keep you base enthusiastic. Politics should become more boring.

We are asking too much what our country can do for us and too little what we can do for our country. We have protests by non-workers demanding others pay more taxes so that they can get more government services. For a while we had enthusiasm among people occupying parks to demand more money from government.

Unfortunately for President Obama, we are going to see some negative enthusiasm. As people come to realize that he is just in over his head - still - many of his erstwhile supporters will feel less enthusiastic as their hope is overtaken by experience. But those who did not support the president will be increasingly angry about what he has done and failed to do for the country. Supporters will attribute this to race or some other bogus considerations, which will create more acrimony than necessary.

Although Obama has been a poor president, he is an excellent campaigner. He cannot run on his record, so his only hope is to trash the opposition, which he will do with character attacks carried out by surrogates, while the president himself complains about the low road of politics.

I see two scenarios for the election. If Obama can make it dirty enough and people buy it, he will win by a close margin. In a more hopeful scenario, Obama’s negative attacks fail. In that case Romney will win by a significant margin and we will have a better run country.

Posted by: C&J at May 25, 2012 7:48 AM
Comment #345251

Billinflorida-
Oh yeah, the President won by 58-42 in a Democratic Primary in a Red State. What a disaster.

C&J-

Romney is not the kind of guy who creates much enthusiasm, which is why he will be a good president.

Always look on the bright side of life (whistles),
Always look on the bright side of life…

But seriously. It does seem like you’re working really hard to make a negative into a positive and a positive into a negative. In other words, spin something. Presidents are political leaders. An inability to rally people is a negative.

As for calm and steady? That’s not my read on Romney. He’s very unsteadiness, his ability to be on both sides of an issue in a very short time. Obama, on the other hand, is rather decisive, and usually sticks to his guns.

While I agree that politics should have less razzle dazzle in it, the way to make things boring is to have leaders become more pragmatic, less ideological. Romney and most of your people are relying on ideology, not fact, to win. An example is the claim that Obama exploded spending, which he didn’t. An example is the claim that Obama is overloading people with taxes, when in fact his policies brought taxes down to historic lows.

The Debt Ceiling Debacle is on of the ultimate examples of this unhealthy reliance on partisanship, where a forever routine vote’s become a tool of political extortion.

You’ve badly misread the OWS movement, and its appeal, by the way. They want what most people want: government to focus on creating jobs and hold those whos risky behavior was so destructive to the economy accountable. The enthusiasm for that hasn’t died down, as the attacks from within the party on Romney show. The fact that the Bain Capital attacks have shown traction should tell you something about the resentment of the majority of Americans for out of control bankers and financiers. Folks don’t want another round of personal consequences for some big bank’s stupid bets.

As far as negative enthusiasm goes, you’ve been pounding on him for four years, and it hasn’t taken. He’s not at 30 or 20 percent, he’s up around fifty percent in many polls. The anger you need should have materialized in his favorabilities, but folks see him positively.

The reason is plainly this: the crisis did not begin on his watch. His decisions were not obvious factors in how things developed. The most people were angry at him about was a failure to fix things as quickly as the urgency people felt demanded. And that is somewhat diluted by the fact he actually went and did something, the Stimulus. It might not have been a total cure, but it was help. The GM bailout, not popular at the beginning, has become a great big symbol of the strength of his approach. Even Mitt tried to steal a little credit.

But who hasn’t really done anything since they got elected? The Republicans in Congress.

Personally, I think your party, so drenched in its own politics, missed a golden opportunity to cover itself in glory. See, if I was damming up the opposition, and then got the House, I would immediately get to work doing stuff, so people would see the increase in activity as being the consequence of a more dedicated group of public servants. Republicans have gone in completely the opposite direction. Not only have they failed to prove to others that their main focus was jobs, they’ve failed to do much at all.

Obama can, and already has run on his record. Romney can try running on his record, but the trouble is, he’s running in a party where virtually everything in his party marks him as deserving of less support, and the rest either paints him as a nosy Republican more interested in irrelevant social issues than urgent economic ones, or as a Johnny-Come-Lately “severe conservative”, who’s own record makes him undeserving of conservative support.

Obama doesn’t have to get mean and dirty, he can go after Romney for what he really did do, and what really happened on his watch. Romney’s a consensus candidate of a party that did everything it could to avoid having him as its candidate.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 25, 2012 1:41 PM
Comment #345257

“Negative enthusiasm.” Is that original? I like it. To me, that summarizes Romney’s support rather nicely. His supporters hate Obama with a passion. Some of it is racism. I know some people in a wealthy gated community in FL, and the racism and free use of the ‘N’ word is pretty wild there. But let’s put that aside. Bear with me, bacause I am driving towards a non-partisan point. Some of the negative enthusiasm for Romney is motivated by partisanship; after all, Bush still held a 22% approval rating at the end of his term. That’s one of those numbers that just blows me away. 22% approval of Bush. So let’s put that into the same hamper as the previous group mentioned but unmentionable. And of course, there is the ‘Obama is a communist socialist Indonesian Kenyan Muslim follower of Reverend Wright who is Un-American, hates America, and goes around the world apologizing for America, that is, when he’s not paling around with terrorists’ crowd. And then there are the Know-Nothings, the Tea Party; you know, the ones who tried to crash the American economy last year during the manufactured debt ceiling crisis. They must scare the crap out of Romney.

Meanwhile, Romney’s money comes from anonymous corporate interests that have nothing in common with the Tea Party Know-Nothings or haters. The corporatists promote an agenda that remains hidden and has little in common with the base. The thought dealing with people who want to kill the economy must make their eyeballs roll back into their heads.

The problem with this negative enthusiasm is that their hatred might motivate that base AGAINST Obama, but it doesn’t accomplish anything positive FOR Romney, and most importantly, it does nothing to attract the middle, the moderates and independents.

Romney can’t disuss his religion. He can’t discuss his foreign policy team, which consists of Bush Neocons. He can’t discuss his term as gov of MA (which I think is a big mistake by Romney), because the base hates everything he did and said while gov.

The old saying in politics is that ‘if you are explaining, you are losing.’ Romney has taken that to heart, and avoided explaining Bain. He will not explain his private sector experience in any detail. No one from Bain or the various companies that worked with Bain will come forward to support Romney. As a result, the flip side of the old saying comes into play. Romney is being defined, and he is not doing anything about it.

Romney follows conventional wisdom. When questioned about Bain, he refuses to explain; instead, he immediately changes the subject to Obama. He will occasionally throw out a line about “attacking capitalism,” and that may play with the base because Obama is a socialist communist etc etc, but it is utterly unconvincing to anyone in the middle. Romney is being defined with independents and moderates by his opposition.

While it is true that when an incumbent is up for re-election it tends to be a referendum, and while it is true that the incumbent usually wants to represent the election as a choice, rather than a referendum… while that is true, at some point, Romney will need to make his case.

He’s failing.

He needs some positive enthusiasm, and that is non-existent.

Posted by: phx8 at May 25, 2012 4:04 PM
Comment #345259

Stephen

Re OWS - “They want what most people want” - yes most of us want the kinds of things OWS wants. But most of us are willing to work for it and do not believe that crapping in the park is sufficient cargo ritual to make things happen w/o work.

Re Obama record - good. Let him run on it. Let the American people decide based on what Obama has given us over the past four years. There are some good things & bad things. Let the American people decide how it balances.

Re Obama getting dirty - he will try to avoid it personally and let people like you and others do it for him. Of course, Obama’s cow pie comment is pretty stupid for a president. Sounds more like something a community organizer might do. Did he learn nothing?

Phx8

Re negative enthusiasm - It puts things in context. Conservatives think Romney is too moderate. But we they see that the alternative to Romney is Obama, Romney looks a lot better.

We never has perfect choices. I might want a really nice steak and shun the hamburger, but when faced with the choice between a hamburger and a cow pie, my enthusiasm for the hamburger may increase.

Posted by: C&J at May 25, 2012 6:21 PM
Comment #345260

BillinFlorida:

By the way Adrienne, the TP is not made up of rich, male, white people.

Hahahahahaha! Bill you’re SO funny! Everybody knows that the vast majority of people in the TP comprises a veritable sea of rich, white, mostly male, cantankerous old people. One look at any photo of their gatherings is the proof.

Posted by: Adrienne at May 25, 2012 6:22 PM
Comment #345261

Jack:

We never has perfect choices. I might want a really nice steak and shun the hamburger, but when faced with the choice between a hamburger and a cow pie, my enthusiasm for the hamburger may increase.


LOL! I think what Jack’s trying to say is: “Can he has “cowpie of distortion?”

Posted by: Adrienne at May 25, 2012 6:27 PM
Comment #345262

“Billinflorida-
Oh yeah, the President won by 58-42 in a Democratic Primary in a Red State. What a disaster.”

Stephen Daugherty; you really are a silly person. What does it matter if it is a red state; it was democrats who were voting for Obama in a primary, and 42% voted for an un-named candidate. That is a problem for Obama, when added to the other examples C&J gave.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304707604577424401681188544.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLETopOpinion

“The fact that the Bain Capital attacks have shown traction should tell you something about the resentment of the majority of Americans for out of control bankers and financiers. Folks don’t want another round of personal consequences for some big bank’s stupid bets.”

Stephen. It is now coming to light that many of Obama’s bundlers have worked for the same “out of control bankers and financiers” that you speak of:

“Jeffrey Zients will serve as President Obama’s new acting director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), but the president’s decision might undercut attacks on Republican Mitt Romney’s career as a venture capitalist, because Zients and Romney are both alumni of Bain & Company.

“I’m pleased to designate Jeff Zients to lead the Office of Management and Budget. Since day one, Jeff has demonstrated superb judgment and has provided sound advice on a whole host of issues,” Obama said in a statement accompanying the announcement today. ..

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney might also be pleased at Zients’ promotion, given that they have a common professional background; Zients worked with Bain & Company as early as 1988, according to the Bain website. Romney worked at Bain & Company, first from 1977-1984, and then again from 1991 and 1992, when he was the Bain & Company chief executive officer.”

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/new-obama-omb-director-bain-alum/317976

How do we handle this Mr. Daugherty; was Bain Capital evil when Zients worked for them? You see, SD, the American people are becoming wise to Obama’s lies.


In fact Democrats are now defending these organizations and opposing Obama’s views. Lanny Davis defends Romney:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syXRAoEmbOw

Like I said, you are a very silly person.

Phx8, why should Romney discuss his religion? Neither I, nor any other conservatives that I know vote for anyone based on their religion. It is only you liberals who are concerned about someone’s religion.

“While it is true that when an incumbent is up for re-election it tends to be a referendum, and while it is true that the incumbent usually wants to represent the election as a choice, rather than a referendum… while that is true, at some point, Romney will need to make his case.
He’s failing.
He needs some positive enthusiasm, and that is non-existent.”
Posted by: phx8 at May 25, 2012 4:04 PM

You are almost as silly as SD. Romney doesn’t need to answer any of the left’s questions that are simply to take the attention off of Obama’s failed economy and put it on something else. I hope he keeps up the attack on Obama. Let me explain something to you phx8; a few months ago the left was saying TP conservatives would never support Romney. Why…because he was a Mormon and the TP is evangelical, or because he is a moderate and the TP is conservative; but it turns out that he has the support of the conservatives and the left can’t understand or except it. So you make unfounded hateful comments like this:

“And then there are the Know-Nothings, the Tea Party; you know, the ones who tried to crash the American economy last year during the manufactured debt ceiling crisis. They must scare the crap out of Romney.”

And you try to say that just because people don’t any more of Obama, they are racists. This is getting old.

I look at the big picture; I look at the overall situation; like Walker in WI. The DNC has pulled out of WI and thrown the unions under the bus; why…because Walker is going to hold on to his governorship. A few months ago and this was a major issue to the DNC, and now…it doesn’t really mean anything.

I look at democrats trying to distance themselves from a president who is running on an anti-capitalist platform. Obama and his Chicago thugs are doing their best to bully their way into the WH for a second term.

I see a SCOTUS who is about to overturn obamacare, which is Obama’s crown and jewel; which will make Obama look incompetent as a Constitutional Scholar, and was a joke when first said about him.

Dem Senators are fighting for their lives to hold onto their seats. I’m sure you have all kinds of evil things to say about Dick Morris, but he has some very good stats on why Obama can’t win. In short, what you call racism is really Americans who are fed up with this guy.

Posted by: Billinflorida at May 25, 2012 7:00 PM
Comment #345264

Adrienne, I am an acttive member of the TP movement and attend meetings and rallies regularly. Please tell me, how many rallies and meetings have you attended or do you just have a vast knowledge based on MSM pics? Thought so…you have no idea what you are talking about…in other words, ignorant.

Posted by: Billinflorida at May 25, 2012 7:11 PM
Comment #345272

billinflorida,
First, let’s be clear about the Tea Party. It predominantly consists of older, white, Republican males. It is essentially the Republican wing of the Republican party. Within the GOP, the Tea Party has generally rejected conservative Republicans who are willing to compromise, and elected Repubicans who are unwilling. Politics usually requires compromise in order to govern, and that is why the GOP House has been one of the most ineffective governing bodies in modern history.

“I look at democrats trying to distance themselves from a president who is running on an anti-capitalist platform.”

Oh dear. There’s a good reason I call Tea Party people Know-Nothings. Is Obama really “anti-capitalist.” Tell me, billinflorida, have you ever heard of the stock market?
Do you know what a bull market is? How much has the stock market gone up under Obama, where does it rank in the history of bull markets, and how does a guy who is “anti-capitalist” achieve such results? Go for it.

Re the Supreme Court: Before rushing to judgment, I’d wait for the SCOTUS to pass down its decision. Hostile questioning by the court doesn’t always mean a hostile decision. Maybe you’re right, maybe not. First, let’s see. In terms of constitutional law, it would be a shocker if this SCOTUS ruled against Obamacare, but these guys came down with the Citizens United decision…

Tea Party Republicans don’t care about religion? Really? Well, sure. If you say so. I totally believe that.

Snort.


Posted by: phx8 at May 25, 2012 8:16 PM
Comment #345277
Adrienne, I am an acttive member of the TP movement and attend meetings and rallies regularly. Please tell me, how many rallies and meetings have you attended or do you just have a vast knowledge based on MSM pics? Thought so…you have no idea what you are talking about…in other words, ignorant.

No, you’re ignorant, Bagger.

Tea Baggers are Lilly White and Well Off. You’re not the ones getting kicked out of your homes by the banksters. You’re not the people who are unemployed. You’ve not borne the brunt of the Great Recession. You’re just a bunch of pampered whiners doing what rich, white, conservatives do whenever Democrats are in charge. And on top of all those facts a great many of you are despicable racists who have been driven insane by the fact that a black man has become the president of the United States.

Deal with it Baggers — that’s who you are, and despite your loud, obnoxious mouths and inflated sense of your own importance, you actually only make up about 29% of the electorate.

Posted by: Adrienne at May 25, 2012 10:18 PM
Comment #345324

phx8, so we have another liberal on WB that knows all about the TP. Perhaps phx8 could tell us how many TP meetings and rallies he has attended, or are you just a left wing blabber like Adrienne?

Obama is the most anti-capitalist president America has ever had. The only time Obama likes capitalism is when they are raising funds for his re-election.

Adrienne, you are simple minded aren’t you? You provide a link to a liberal blog site which is on the same level as ACORN and then you make a bunch of racist statements. I believe C&J have accused you of the same thing in the past. Linking to liberal blog sites as evidence. You need to read more variety of info.

People get their homes repossessed because they don’t make the payments. People don’t have jobs because they don’t want to work. What’s the matter, the hopy/changy thing not working for you? Obama says we are recovering, that means there are jobs out there. I believe everyone has borne the brunt of Obama’s extended recession, and he is about to put us into another one. The rest of your blather is nothing but racist statements. If I were to guess from your comments, I would say you are a frustrated …well never mind.

Posted by: Billinflorida at May 25, 2012 11:57 PM
Comment #345326

phx8

I don’t believe that Obama is necessarily anti-free market, but he clearly either does not understand how it works or is being mendacious in his silly comments about venture capital. Anybody who did not know that he was not serious, would judge him to be anti-capitalist by listening to his remarks.

Re stock markets - there have been bull markets in some places that have been fairly un-capitalistic. The Russian market has a good run during the 1990s and it was not free in the sense we would understand it. Making money and having a free market system are not exactly the same.

Re our own markets - The American nation is greater than the American government and the stock market is not a creature of Obama. It was around before him and will be around long after. IMO, it would work better if Obama didn’t create uncertainty with his intemperate remarks. He should probably not talk so emotionally about that which he understands little.

Adrienne

I have been to some TP rallies. They tend to be made up of older people, more prosperous, more peaceful than average and more white than the general population, but I saw a significant number of non-whites and there are about as many TP women as men. If you look at the politicians most popular with TP, you find women (like Bachmann and Palin) very prominent and if TP activists had their way Herman Cain would be the Republican nominee. In case you forgot, Cain is black, so if TP people were driven crazy by a black man in the White House it is strange that they wanted another one.

In any case, I see nothing wrong with being white, older and well off. After a lifetime of hard work and prudence, some of us have become more secure. Somebody has to do the work and save the money. I remember people telling my how dumb I was not to buy a better car or a bigger house. We could “afford it,” people told us. Not really. We are not the ones being kicked out of our homes because we were smart enough not to borrow more than we could pay back.

One thing that is true is that if you work hard, stay faithful in your marriage, don’t drink to excess or take drugs and generally spend less than you make, it is hard not to be successful in our United States.

You say that you know poor people. Me too. I used to be one, but my habits would not let me remain one. I have noticed an interesting anomaly. Poorer people generally have bigger TVs and are bigger (fatter) than richer people. When I run through the ghettos, I am always astonished by the big cars. In fact, when you see more than a few Cadillac Escalades you can be almost sure you are running through a poor neighborhood. Who even wants a Escalade? And how can a guy who lives in a shit hole afford one? This is not a rhetorical question.

Posted by: C&J at May 26, 2012 12:27 AM
Comment #345375
Adrienne, you are simple minded aren’t you?

LOL! Screw you too, Bill.

You provide a link to a liberal blog site which is on the same level as ACORN

From Wikipedia:

Project Vote (or Voting for America, Inc.) is a national nonpartisan, nonprofit 501(c) organization that works with marginalized and under-represented voters. Its current executive director is Michael Slater, who has worked for Project Vote since 2004. Project Vote’s efforts to engage low income and minority voters in the civic process include the provision of training, management, evaluation and technical services.

But please — do keep going, Bill! Because I for one absolutely LOVE the fact that Republicans keep perpetually underscoring how much their, greedy, mean-spirited, strictly-Caucasian political party (and tea bagger groups) truly despise low-income and minority voters and designate all organizations set up to aid such people — even those that are non-partisan — as automatically “Liberal.”

The incredible stupidity and blindness of this is truly fantastic. You have no idea how grateful folks on the left are that your party has become so unrelentingly vicious and hostile towards the huge and ever-growing legions of voters who have been struggling in the Great Recession brought on by Wall Street-Republican economic policies.

and then you make a bunch of racist statements.
Oh I see — it’s “racism” to say that Tea Baggers are overwhelmingly white and well off? Well that’s too damn bad. When you baggers began screaming things like “We want our country back!” it became crystal clear exactly what you meant. It’s not just that baggers are anti-liberal, or anti-Obama, or anti-poor. No, that’s a call to take America back to a time when the entire nation was run by and for rich, racist white people just like themselves — and that only they should have a voice in how things are run.
People get their homes repossessed because they don’t make the payments. People don’t have jobs because they don’t want to work.

Like I said — stupidity and blindness. The kind of opinions that rich white people make because they haven’t been effected by the economic downturn, and therefore don’t know a damn thing about what most people have faced.

What’s the matter, the hopy/changy thing not working for you?

Hey, I recognize that! LOL! Does this mean Billinflorida is actually Sarahinalaska!?
Everyone knows that “hopy/changy” never stood a chance due to the Republican’s in Congress. Their seething hatred of Obama and all of the struggling people who voted for that hope and change made gridlock an inevitability. But then, the GOP has always been all about gridlock — because that’s how they’re able to ignore a multitude of problems that they simply don’t care about.

However, what is new is that the GOP used to try to disguise the fact that they don’t have any ideas or solutions to aid the middle class and the poor. They used to at least attempt to pay a smidgen of lip-service, but with the emergence of the tea party, they’ve stopped trying to hide where their upper class interests truly lie, and aren’t bothering to cover up racism and/or their generalized contempt for average Americans.

Indeed, the complete lack of shame or conscience in this regard is the reason they ended up running a guy like Mitt Romney — the arrogant, plutocratic, billionaire, 1%er, whitey-whitebread candidate.

Posted by: Adrienne at May 26, 2012 2:05 PM
Comment #345385

Adrienne, I believe you have some real physiological issues. I don’t believe I have ever heard such a foul rant from a woman; that is if you are really a woman. I guess you could be about anything when posting on WB. By the way, Wikipedia is about as accurate on info as ACORN.com.

Signed, Billinalaska

Posted by: Billinflorida at May 26, 2012 5:04 PM
Comment #345395

Adrienne

It is a type of racism to use the supposed ethnic makeup of a group as a reason to attack. Of course, I have demonstrated to you that women and a black man were among the most popular figures to the TP. I understand that evidence means less to you than your revealed truth, but I know others read this, so I have to do it.

I do have to thank you. Indeed, in my “sheltered life” I meet lots of liberals, ethnic minorities and others, but I rarely meet people with your sorts of ideas and emotions.

Bill

Please see above. We should appreciate Adrienne. We in the 99% rarely encounter people like her. Actually, I think a significant number of people think along the same lines, but they don’t speak up for fear of looking stupid.

You can never convince here of anything, since you are not allowed to use evidence or logic. One day I will do an experiment. I will paraphrase a speech by President Obama and put in a few conservative phrases to disguise it. I bet if she thinks it is conservative, she will attack it. It is a kind of Pavlovian response.

When writing back to people like her, remember that we are writing to a larger audience, not to her personally. Liberals like to believe that conservatives are aggressive and reactive. It is better to be subtle, so that they don’t know they have been insulted until they think about it for a day or two.

Posted by: C&J at May 26, 2012 9:29 PM
Comment #345402

She’s a sad little woman. I think it would be terrible to go through life hating everyone and everything.

Posted by: Billinforida at May 26, 2012 11:49 PM
Comment #345408

New York Times on a New York Times/CBS Poll
Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated

Quote from the link:

Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45.

CBS on NYT/CBS Poll
Tea Party Supporters: Who They Are and What They Believe

Quote from the link:

Eighteen percent of Americans identify as Tea Party supporters. The vast majority of them — 89 percent — are white. Just one percent is black. They tend to skew older: Three in four are 45 years old or older, including 29 percent who are 65 plus. They are also more likely to be men (59 percent) than women (41 percent). More than one in three (36 percent) hails from the South, far more than any other region. Twenty-five percent come from the West, 22 percent from the Midwest, and 18 percent from the northeast. They are better educated than most Americans: 37 percent are college graduates, compared to 25 percent of Americans overall. They also have a higher-than-average household income, with 56 percent making more than $50,000 per year.

TPM on CNN Poll
link text

Quote from the link:

A new CNN poll sheds light on who makes up the Tea Party movement. According to the results, tea partiers are richer, more male and have more education than the general population.

Bloomberg on Bloomberg Poll
Tea Party Advocates Who Scorn Socialism Want a Government Job

Quote from the link:

Tea Party supporters are likely to be older, white and male. Forty percent are age 55 and over, compared with 32 percent of all poll respondents; just 22 percent are under the age of 35, 79 percent are white, and 61 percent are men. Many are also Christian fundamentalists, with 44 percent identifying themselves as “born-again,” compared with 33 percent of all respondents.
Jack and Billinflorida HAVE to try to attack me personally, because they’ve got nothing. They can’t bear to deal in the facts about the Tea Party, because it’s embarrassing, unpleasant, and obviously hits too close the bone. Posted by: Adrienne at May 27, 2012 1:55 AM
Comment #345409

Daily Beast on University of Washington Poll conducted in six battleground states:

New Poll Finds Tea Partiers Have More Racist Attitudes

Link to the poll: 2010 Multi-State Survey of Race & Politics

Posted by: Adrienne at May 27, 2012 2:36 AM
Comment #345410

Sorry last link didn’t work — here it is again:

2010 Multi-State Survey of Race & Politics

Posted by: Adrienne at May 27, 2012 2:38 AM
Comment #345415

Adrienne

I am not an active TP member but I would be flatter to be as “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated.”

Should it not be all of our goals to become wealthier and more educated? The alternative goal to become dumber and poorer seems a poor choice.

Re the Poll on racism, read the questions and answers. There is no question that really shows racism. It shows that TP tend not to believe in affirmative action (which is not a racist position); it shows they believe in hard work and it shows that they do not believe in increased government interference in the economy. The headline about racism is not supported by the evidence.

In fact, if you were to take a poll only of Americans who are better educated, older and higher income, whether they are black, white, Asian or other, you would find many of the same attitudes. People often become successful because of such attitudes toward hard work and personal responsibility.

Re attacking you - I was defending you. I think your point of view is interesting. That is why I take the time to write back to you even after you swear or call me names.

I have voiced my complaint to you directly that I do not think you adequately analyze the links and polls that you sometimes link. It is not meant as an attack, but an observation.

In the links you did today, I do not fault you personally. IMO, the interpretations of research, especially in the UW poll, represents invalid extrapolations. You simply quoted them. I would suggest following the reference to the original research, however.

Posted by: C&J at May 27, 2012 10:14 AM
Comment #345426

Adrienne

I bet the poll would also find that TP activists wake up earlier in the morning and since they are clearly healthier, wealthier and wiser.

Posted by: C&J at May 27, 2012 10:58 AM
Comment #345442

Jack,

You’re missing my point — again.
It’s ridiculous the way that TP people don’t like to admit who they actually are. But in poll after poll after poll it has been found that the Tea Party is full of rich, white, mostly male, obviously cranky older people. People who have a lot to be grateful for than most average Americans, yet have chosen to loudly and obnoxiously whine about everything despite having far less reason to do so.

On top of that fact, they cloak themselves in the flag, claiming to be super-patriots, but in fact they come off as nationalistic, fascistic, and racist with their claim that they “need to take the country back.”
Who do they need to “take it back” from?
Americans who aren’t just like them: rich, white, and mostly male.

The reason people in the TP can’t relate to anyone on the left (in fact these people never fail to show us how incensed and seething with hatred they are for our views), and why can’t relate to the problems and difficulties that enormous numbers of middle class and poor people have been having during the economic downturn (that their own political party brought on) is because they simply don’t share any of those same problems — and they never have, despite all their whining and shouting.

This is why the Tea Party is a joke that most Americans only laugh at — including me.

Posted by: Adrienne at May 27, 2012 12:48 PM
Comment #345462

Adrienne

The “take back” is an old political statement. Back in 2007, the Democrats had a whole “take back” conference. Obama, Hillary Clinton and the great John Edwards all participated. http://www.ontheissues.org/TBA_2007.htm. Who did they need to take it back from?

The Tea Party did America a great service by stopping the Obama juggernaut in 2009. I don’t agree with many of their programs. People like Lugar and Hatch are about my speed and they are not darlings of the TP. However, in a broader party, we have to cooperate with many sorts.

“My” party would not include very many people, maybe just me. I am sure you would have the same feelings toward many Dems.

Re being white, richer and better educated than most Americans. This describes me. I did not choose to be white. But as for being richer and better educated, these are good things. Don’t you aspire to be better educated and wealthier?

Re the seething with hatred - all I can tell you is that I attended a couple of TP rallies including that really big one in Washington. I did not see evidence of much hatred. In fact, the TP really in DC shared the Mall with the “black family reunion”. The black family folks were selling traditional African American products and foods. The TP people were happily mixing in and buying these things. It was a very happy occasion.

Posted by: C&J at May 28, 2012 12:17 AM
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