Occupation Returns

Now that the weather is improving, some of the Occupy Wall Street folks are wandering back. I have no profound comments yet, but I did visit the camp in Washington and took a couple pictures. The first one, the one with the mud and the forlorn benches, is the Occupied park.The bottom one show a non-occupied, free park a couple blocks away. Judge for yourself. I made a special point of sitting on the occupied bench to show the denizens that it was a public park. I did leave shortly, however, before anybody hit me up for spare change.

Occupy site - mud, old tents and funny smells.

Ordinary park a few blocks.

A little different.

Posted by Christine & John at March 3, 2012 5:23 PM
Comment #337575

I wonder where the comment will publish given the two pictures

Posted by: C&J at March 3, 2012 5:48 PM
Comment #337579

Wonder how many of them are just homeless vagrants hoping to squat there under the pretense of being OWS protestors ?

Posted by: dbs at March 3, 2012 9:25 PM
Comment #337581


It was hard to tell the difference. The occupiers seem to have tents; the homeless rarely are allowed to pitch them.

There were obviously lots of nut cases around, as well as some who may have been legitimate protestors. It is a difficult model of protest to maintain, since it is by its nature dirty and destructive. You can see how they kill the grass and bushes and make the square inhospitable to ordinary citizens. The bottom picture with the intact grass starting to turn green with an early spring is only two blocks away from the occupied park. They used to be almost the same.

Posted by: C&J at March 3, 2012 9:51 PM
Comment #337583

Can you imagine the media coverage if the tea party protests had done as much damage. Let’s hope common sense prevails next November.

Posted by: dbs at March 3, 2012 11:16 PM
Comment #337584

I am going to love it when Mitt Romney visits a OWS camp to tell them how much more he cares about their concerns than Obama does. There will be pictures.

Posted by: jlw at March 3, 2012 11:31 PM
Comment #337585

No one with any common sense would waste thier time acknowleging these OWS losers. They are the true 1%.

Posted by: dbs at March 3, 2012 11:44 PM
Comment #337590

The OWS won’t be wasting it’s time on Republicans. The movement knows it has a mountain to climb just in wining back the Democratic Party to the people’s side.

The Republican party knows it is going to have a hard time winning a majority vote for their policies.

So, the OWS will continue to protest in the streets and the Republicans will continue with their voter suppression campaign.

If the Republican party wasn’t concerned about the OWS, they wouldn’t be concerned about the OWS. If there is no concern, there is no reason to attack.

Words are becoming less significant, deeds are becoming more significant.

I see this as another attempt at conservative humor, like Rush’s humor. Anger, humor, contempt are signs of fear, quite common and well worn by political parties.

Posted by: jlw at March 4, 2012 3:22 PM
Comment #337591


I am against the procedures of the OWS because of how they ruined parks that I enjoy. It is at this personal level that I dislike the destruction and the piggy behavior. You can see from the pictures taken only a few days ago how the OWS kills the grass, drives honest citizens our of public parks and generally craps up the area.

They have chosen a method of protest that by its very nature will be unsanitary and destructive.

Most of the people who can no longer enjoy the public park are not the 1%. I suspect most of the 1% do not often sit on a public park bench. But ordinary people do.

I recall the 1980s when the so-called homeless movement destroyed our public spaces. People with kids (like we were at the time) had to move to suburbs to allow the kids a place to play w/o stumbling over beer bottles, needles or some boozer sleeping on a bench at noon. The OWS is very similar in both its methods and it clientele.

So what movements like this end up doing is exacerbating the social distance they claim to abhor. Middle-upper income with good educations (like us) would like to live and spend times in cities, support public places etc. But these guys literally stink it up and drive us away. It is destructive of civil virtue.

Posted by: C&J at March 4, 2012 3:58 PM
Comment #337614

So, the Republicans have said for years that deficits are okay if they’re driven by tax policies that insufficiently raise revenue, even while they spend as well to remain in our good graces, and they want to talk to us about the destruction of civil virtue?

We have conservative judges making bestiality jokes at the President’s expense, Republican legislators heckling the Commander in Chief in the middle of a SOTU address. We have folks holding up all kinds of appointments and not yielding to majority rules in the Senate because they want to make Obama look bad.

Your people spent almost every year of the Clinton administration degrading the office of the Presidency, keeping the public focused on a sex scandal or a real estate scandal for just about every year, and even decried his going after Bin Laden as a distraction from your precious attempts at unseating him on moral grounds.

Then, in the Bush years, you saran wrapped the government, reducing accountability. You had lobbyists over, and then sued so Americans wouldn’t know who was shaping our nation’s energy policy for sure. You pushed a narrative that equated criticizing a badly flawed war plan with treason, and then proceeded to attack a decorated war veteran’s record.

Oh, I know you have your reasons. You always do. The ends justify the means, don’t they? So, when some people come and camp out in the park to protest just how unfair the Wall Street system has become, to protest inequality, to protest how out of touch the government as a whole has become from the needs of the many… Well, you can just overlook all the ways in which the GOP’s debased our civic culture.

There are many of us here, the true conservatives in a way, who want back a system that was more equitable, more upwardly mobile, less based on the economic suffering of the majority for the sake of the few and the fortunate. We believe that sometimes, the old ways are best. Sometimes, folks saw what went wrong, and responded to it in their law.

Much of what you term big government came about because people were repeatedly confronted with the inability of businesses and individuals to counter bad impulse or dishonest behaviors on their own. Just because the market can act spontaneously to answer problems, doesn’t mean it can be counted on to. That was the old thinking, wasn’t it?

Now some things belong in the past, and laws should be updated, rules streamlined, red tape cut where it doesn’t serve a rational purpose. But first, to have that debate, there has to be a point where Republicans and those on the right will concede that maybe we do need government to step in at a certain place. That, rather than the content-free insistence that it’s never a good thing. If you never have to look at the situation individually to declare what’s best for it, you’re not really looking at it.

I want rationality back. I want us to shape the government based on evidence and not simply political dogma. Our rule, for the most part, kept Wall Street in line. Yours unleashed its worst impulses. American needs Wall Street to serve the Public interest, not the other way around. Finance used to be about supporting businesses and economic growth elsewhere, rather than about becoming the whole game all by itself.

If you cared to listen to what people actually said, you might detect that as part of their main points. Instead, they’re just dirty people in a park to you.

Well, being dirty and unwashed doesn’t make you anything less than a citizen, and it doesn’t affect the right or wrong of your point.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 4, 2012 10:16 PM
Comment #337626


I don’t like dirty people messing up public parks, killing the grass & making it unpleasant for honest citizens to enjoy their day.

You earlier criticized me for judging the OWS w/o seeing them. Now that I have seen, heard and smelled them, I have actually lowered my opinion.

Your anti-Republican screed is a long non sequitur. Even if some of the things you say are valid criticisms, it doesn’t follow that a bunch of scruffy people need to trample the grass in public parks and make a mess.

You are right that being dirty and unwashed doesn’t make you less a citizen. But inflicting your dirty and unwashed state on other citizens is bad manners.

I have explained on several occasions that the choice of protest method will inevitably result in unpleasantness. Organizers have chosen a path that leads to squalor and disorder. This is the choice they have made and to the extent that it is within their right, that is okay. It is, however, within the rights of others to point out the squalor and criticize the choice of method designed to create it.

There is no shortage of outlets for speech in our country. The problem for the OWS is that they do not seem to have much to say. Besides the guy who asked for spare change, nobody was trying to engage citizens in any dialogue.

Posted by: C&J at March 4, 2012 11:07 PM
Comment #337648

I’m all for freedom of expression, but I would rather use my time to build on my family and create my own resources that will allow me to take care of them. Blaming the wealthy people will not gain anything, in my opinion! P.S. I’m Broke……

Be A Part Of America’s Design

Posted by: America's Design at March 5, 2012 11:47 AM
Comment #337649

End capitalism! Take money from everybody else and:
Pay for my mortgage!
Pay for my schooling!
Pay for my health care!

Oh, and protect my environment by fixing the environment I destroyed!

These progressives are funny. Anybody else thinking they will get even more anti-US and violent in the coming months?

Posted by: kctim at March 5, 2012 11:54 AM
Comment #337650

It’s a shame SD never gets out of his little cocoon of liberalism. C&J, did you ever expect SD to condemn the unwashed, uncircumcized, philistines that make up the 1% of OWS? He defends them because he is one of them. SD needs to move out of his parents house, get a job, pay taxes, and quit trying to live off the taxpayers.

Posted by: Frank at March 5, 2012 12:31 PM
Comment #337651


Maybe off topic some, but when I was listening to NPR this morning they had this 3 part piece on inconsistency in politics. When they got to the 2nd segment by Alix Spiegel I couldn’t help but think of the readers here at Watchblog.

Posted by: George at March 5, 2012 12:46 PM
Comment #337652

The 1% Oligarchy must be defeated and Democracy must be restored. OWS will continue despite petty, unimportant complaints (like Jack’s above) because neither of those things has happened yet.

Jack likes the Tea Party movement because they’re clean and neat, and dutifully go home after their rallies. They’ve also been completely ineffective at changing the status quo in America. In fact, their message has been so totally hijacked that what began as a protest against Wall Street getting bailouts, now finds itself cheering on Wall Street’s status quo.

Jack hates the OWS movement because they’re inconvenient and messy and don’t all go home after their marches and rallies. But unlike the Tea Party, OWS has been very effective at changing the national focus and drawing attention to huge numbers of serious problems that have been caused by Wall Street’s status quo — problems that wealthy politicians definitely prefer to ignore, but now can’t. And as a result, OWS has made a major impact on the rhetoric we’re now hearing from those politicians.

This is a very good thing — no matter how inconvenient it might seem to some.

Huge numbers of Americans losing their jobs and homes, and kids not being able to get an education are critically important issues. Yet Wall Street has not been reined in at all. Indeed, they have been allowed to continue their destruction in this nation — for instance, currently their speculation is artificially driving up the price of gasoline — making the 1% richer, and further hurting the people who are already struggling.
Protesting against these facts is a lot more important than enjoying a pleasant day in the park.

Btw, the grass can always grow back — and it will. Just as soon as Wall Street’s 1% starts having to pay serious consequences for committing rampant and numerous crimes against the people. And, when economic conditions actually start vastly improving for the majority in America.

Posted by: Adrienne at March 5, 2012 1:17 PM
Comment #337653

C&J, the Occupy park seems to have been occupied most of the winter, until the protestors were evicted,anyway. The damage seems to be limited to the grass being used by many people judging from this photo in January. You seem to be extraordinarily worried about this but it seems rather trivial to me when the issues at stake are so much more important. Which brings up a good point, BTW, why are you attacking these messengers instead of their message?


Posted by: j2t2 at March 5, 2012 1:42 PM
Comment #337655

Luckily, the lack of support for radical far-left progressive issues and solutions show just how trivial OWS is.

Posted by: kctim at March 5, 2012 1:57 PM
Comment #337658

“because of how they ruined the parks that I enjoy.”

Now you know how I feel about my favorite forest that is being clear cut. Your park will recover much faster.

I know you right wing cogs are worried and I don’t blame you for attacking the OWS, like I don’t blame some of your politicians for trying to cozy up to the inequity issue in an attempt to defuse it.

The streets have always been the public forum. There really isn’t any other.

Posted by: jlw at March 5, 2012 3:27 PM
Comment #337684


I am not extraordinarily worried about the grass or the mess. I just am in favor of public parks open to all. I don’t like it that these guys have seized this place and made a mess for others to clean up.


I try to clean up my own messes and not mess up things to be used by others. Yes, I prefer others extend that courtesy to me and other citizens. I was unaware that good manners - or their lack - was a political statement.


It depends on which forest is clear cut, by whom and why. I practice clear cutting in some areas of the forest I own because it is a good silvicultural practice.

Is “your” favorite forest on private or public land?

Re a public forum - there are lots of other place and even the streets can be used in ways that are not so intrusive.

The OWS has chosen a method of protest that inevitably leads to squalor and inconvenience for average citizens. To the extent that what they have done is legal, I support their LEGAL rights. But we can’t ignore the slovenly and destructive method they have chosen to exploit.

Posted by: C&J at March 5, 2012 8:12 PM
Comment #337704

C&J grasping at straws are we? From your photo other than the grass I don’t see any “mess” for “others to clean up”.

Once again why are you attacking these messengers on such trivial points and ignoring the message?

Posted by: j2t2 at March 6, 2012 11:30 AM
Comment #337714


The others already had cleaned it up. The picture also cannot convey the exotic smells or the general unpleasantness of the tents and the people in them. I also couldn’t document the stress these guys put on public facilities, such as bathrooms.

You will notice that the park benches are empty in the “occupied” park while they are full in the free one. The pictures were taken minutes apart. People were quickly walking completely around the occupied park. They walked through the free park and lingered to talk or rest.

Re the message - OWS has not really articulated a message. They got a lot of attention but did not articulate a program.

Posted by: C&J at March 6, 2012 4:59 PM
Comment #337726

C&J, of course we wouldn’t expect old conservatives to protest in a tent, that might distract from their superiority complex.

The tea party was less intrusive and it had an agenda. Now that much of that agenda has been rejected by the majority, the tea party is sitting up in the House wandering what kind of budget they should produce in this election year. Should they stick to their principles or should they try deception?

The OWS is just one of the parts of a project to remind voters that while they may consider voting for the, after the nomination, super moderate Republican Romney, they will also be helping to elect a tea party government that will refuse Romney the opportunity to be a moderate.

There are far more intrusive ways to demonstrate in the public forum, like after the game parties.

Posted by: jlw at March 6, 2012 8:12 PM
Comment #337729


OWS is reminding us of what? Their platform, such as we can figure it out, looks a lot like that of the Tea Party, although the OWS are less numerous and more churlish.

The OWS folks can protest against the 99% if they want, but they don’t need to hang around overnight. If they insist on this sort of protest, they have to accept that they will make a mess, attract vagabonds and drive honest citizens out of public parks. If these goals are part of their program, we can criticize them for that. But OWS supporters tend to overlook all these negatives.

Posted by: C&J at March 6, 2012 9:19 PM
Comment #337731

This whole article is just an ad hominem argument, and one that you’ve lost anyways.

That’s you’re problem. You’re five steps behind the political situation. The mess that has people’s attention is the economic situation, and the resentment of pro-speculator, pro-job destroyer policies is substantial

What you fail to realize is that after multiple scandals where millions lost retirement hopes, after a decade where only about a million more jobs were created than destroyed (that, after one where about twenty million were created), people no longer give Wall Street or corporate America the benefit of the doubt. They’ve given them a lot, by voting the way they have, by supporting those who deregulated and cut taxes, but having gotten a lot in return.

In a weird, inverse way, Wall Street’s made the argument for Occupy Wall Street, and that argument is this: policies must more directly reflect the public good of the many, rather than private good of the few, because supporting their private good has not prevented job losses, has not created the jobs promised, has not lead to substantial enough increases in pay and benefits, and has not increased the fairness of the market to the interests of small investors and consumers. It has not balanced the budget - far from it - and it has truly failed to create a stable, healthy system of finance for the country.

OWS only had to put words to it. In ten, twenty years time, nobody’s going to remember the squalor, at least not as a negative. They are going to remember that the protests helped turn the tide.

There is no cocoon of liberalism for me, I live in Houston, TX. That is just one of a great many misconceptions you bring to your argument, in an effort to bust my chops. I don’t expect to get an even break from you, so I won’t go into much detail.

But really, unwashed, uncircumcized philistines? Pardon me, but this country was founded mostly by gentiles who didn’t bathe as often as we do. That’s Victorian prejudice talking, mister! (but really, what do you have against folks with foreskins? That’s most males on the face of the Earth!)

Seriously, though, being poor and looking poor doesn’t exactly clash with communicating the notion that you’re down and out folks protesting the actions of the upper class. By basically calling them the great unwashed, you actually make an argument that only reinforces their point that you’re a bunch of elitists! You might as well say, “let them eat cake!” while you’re at it.

Civil disobedience thrives on attention. It gets people to watch as the real points get made. You’re not defeating OWS by giving it such a focus, by having the late, irate Andrew Breitbart shouting “Behave yourselves!” at them.

We thank you for your help.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 6, 2012 10:03 PM
Comment #337733


The form of protest these guys have chosen creates messes and drives honest citizens away from public places. This is not an ad hominem attack. On the contrary, it is precisely about the chosen behavior of the protestors involved and the logic consequences of their choices.

You say, “OWS only had to put words to it.” This is precisely what they do NOT do. The method of protest is the statement. If it was about their words, it would be done. Please tell me what is their precise program … in words. They vaguely want more things to be free and they want to pay less for what they get. This is pretty much what everybody wants as long as somebody else is picking up the tab. They are angry with Wall Street. I heard Newt Gingrich say the same thing tonight.

You say “In ten, twenty years time, nobody’s going to remember the squalor” In ten years, nobody will remember much about these protests at all.

This is not the first occupation infestation we have seen. We had a bunch of anti-nuke folks occupy a park near the White House when Reagan was president. Gradually most went away until there were a couple aging hippies left. They were still out there in 2005 with the same signs claiming that Reagan was about to touch off WWIII. People would take picture of them as curiosities. If I can find one of the pictures, I will post it.

But I fear the OWS will cause more damage than these old people because they employ the homeless. We had a guy called Mitch Schneider who did this in the 1980s. He ended up contributing to the decline of Washington as a livable city during the 1980s. Fortunately, the movement broke up when he committed suicide after he was rejected by his paramour. But until that time, he followers were crapping on playgrounds and leaving bottles all over the place, so kids couldn’t play. I recall one of them girdled about a dozen newly planted maple trees, killing them. I asked him why he did it and he replied something like he was unhappy and wanted others to feel his pain.

I recall these past experiences and don’t want them again. That is why I dislike the OWS tactics.

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