A Nation Of Fools And Future Slaves

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious, but it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly, but the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.” —- Marcus Tullius Cicero 42 BC.

I count myself fortunate, and even lucky, to have born into the last generation of independent freedom loving Americans. That’s on the one hand. On the other, I feel
depressed that my generation will be the first to see a free America voluntarily choose slavery as a way of life.

As Americans look about them today, they can see the effects of just toying around with socialism: A nation in decline, a nation financially broke, a nation of people depressed, hurting, and angry, a nation deeply divided by the race baiting and class warfare imposed on them by a major political party in their grab for the power to rule America as the “elite class” in a socialist America. We refer, of course, to the Democratic Party.

Slavery? Yes! Socialism is slavery to the state (and to those elite socialist politicians who will run your life from the cradle to the grave). Under the Obama Administration, it has already begun. The evils of Pandora’s box can’t hold a candle to the evils of Obamacare.

Socialism is the slavery of forced labor. Americans will work for the government. I don’t mean the 48% of the American workforce who are on the government’s payroll. I mean 100% of the American workforce, which will be receiving those wages the government decides you need to exist and continue working at your government assigned job.

All the labor union demonstrations remind one of nothing more than the “useful idiots” Vladimir Lenin used to mock. He was referring to westerners, including Americans, Who publicly and privately sympathized with the socialist movement in what would become the Socialist Soviet Union. He was, of course, right about one thing: They were, and are, idiots -- and they were, and are today, useful to the cause of socialism and communism. This time, however, the targeted country is the United States.

Today, those of us in America who see what is happening to our country, to our freedom, to our future as a free country, are derided as some sort of alarmists. To that, allow me to say: “You’re darned right, I’m ALARMED!” It is as clear to me as sunrise this morning that a free America will only be a legend to my grandkids.

I expect that in the not too distant American future there will be a time when those of us who pen such comments as these will be arrested as enemies of the socialist state of America … if we live long enough. As I have been spouting these kinds of commentaries and public addresses since I was a sophomore in high school, I expect they will have a lot to work with!

Socialism is a killer of nations. It is a terminal illness that rots a nation’s core until it is hollow and then implodes in upon itself -- taking that nation’s society along with it.

Today in America we are awash in socialism. There is Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, socialist feminism – and the Democratic Party.

I mention ObamaCare above. ObamaCare is socialized medicine … socialism! Americans have no idea how much freedom and liberty ObamaCare will strip from the citizens of the USA. But it’s coming -- and it will be startling!

Distressingly, I see no pushback against the steady encroachment of socialism in America. Make no mistake about it, socialism is on the march in the USA and we will awaken one morning to find that America is no longer a free country but a slave nation shackled to a socialist government… and even sadder, Americans will have no idea how America came to be socialist.

Even now the chains are being forged for America’s enslavement. The foundry is working 24/7 turning out the bonds that will hold a nation of once proud, free, Americans.

Well over one-third of our national government is already socialist … the executive branch. One half of the Legislative branch, the Senate, is controlled by socialists, and the Judicial branch is very close to falling under the control of socialist sympathizing justices.

Do you begin to understand the threat America is living under today? I hope so, because the change from freedom to slavery is going to be rapid and startlingly complete.

A re-elected Obama will be free to stoke the furnace and boost the speed of America’s enslavement. He has no opposition, to speak of, in his bid for re-election. The loyal opposition has caved. They will not field a candidate with a snowball’s chance against Obama; instead, the GOP is eying the 2016 election. THAT, in my view, is a sell-out of the American people who yearn to preserve what little is left of our free nation.

Posted by J. D. Longstreet at May 9, 2011 3:24 AM
Comments
Comment #322984

Spouting is a good word, glad you recognize it.

Posted by: womanmarine at May 9, 2011 6:00 AM
Comment #322993
I count myself fortunate, and even lucky, to have born into the last generation of independent freedom loving Americans.

Well, I can sympathize with being independent and freedom-loving, but I’m sorry to say that you are no more the last than many others who lead with that impression.

Republican and conservatives worry about socialism because they’ve been taught rather erroneously that a system that lets capitalists, that is the corporate elite and the big moneymakers, do whatever they want is the only true form of capitalism, indeed of freedom and independence.

That narrowness of philosophical perspective, that unwillingness to see the tensions and problems that come from application of that form of capitalism is actually the main driver of socialism, it’s main justification.

Put another way, the extremists are good for each other. The main reason Europe got so much more into socialism, and all that, is that it had an entrenched, formally and legally classed society, where upward mobility and other means of relieving tension were not available. When the tensions got too much, folks wanting change won by simple dint of numbers. But by that time, they weren’t settling for regulation and mild welfare state programs.

My point may be that you’ve never experienced real socialism in America, nor have the real socialists been created yet. Unfortunately, if you get your way, and you continue to rationalize policies that beat people down, that give greatly to the rich and powerful, and take sharply from the poor and disadvantaged, you’re not going to defeat socialism, you’re going to give it a foothold in America it never had.

Live in the real world of the economy. Recognize that the free and independent capitalist system that you talk about having continued to this point continued because so many of the needs of the average person were taken care of, reducing the level of tension between those in power, with money, and those with less. Liberalism, not conservatism saved capitalism, because it made it safe for most people to believe in. Why? Because they knew it wouldn’t be to their disadvantage to let the corporations wield the power they did.

Well, you have succeeded largely in taking away the counterbalance, and what a lot of Americans see and fear is the power of the rich and elite imposing itself on our daily lives in a negative way.

Your policies help the rich and powerful get off scott free, after having inflicted catastrophes of historic proportion on us. Do you really think the tensions in people from that injustice have really gone away, that people really have forgotten? Do you not think people would sooner embrace a system that both held those oil-spilling, derivatives-leveraging crooks accountable, rather than allow them to continue their irresponsible behavior?

The harder you fight the political shift, the more you succeeded in beating back these impulses people have now, the more powerful the backlash.

Going your way, America has a greater chance of seeing a major socialist political movement, a true one, than it does of seeing things return to a more familiar level of normality.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 9, 2011 8:23 AM
Comment #322995

J. D. Longstreet, I agree with you completely.

Stephen Daugherty, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Posted by: Mike at May 9, 2011 8:38 AM
Comment #323000

JD Longstreet,

Once again you make a lot of accusations, but provide very few details to support your claims.

ObamaCare is socialized medicine.

Socialized medicine is a term that describes a system in which the government provides taxpayer funded health care to all of its citizens. Under socialized medicine, doctors & nurses are almost always government employees or derive most of their salary from the government. The PPACA does none of these things; it preserves the preexisting regime of private insurers. The PPACA ends unfair practices such as rescission and denials based upon preeexisting conditions. In order to end those practices, an individual mandate was necessary to prevent free riders. This is a system that has proven successful in Massachusetts and will undoubtedly show similar results nationwide. I don’t know where you derive “socialized medicine” from the PPACA outside of right wing propaganda.

Socialism is the slavery of forced labor. Americans will work for the government. I don’t mean the 48% of the American workforce who are on the government’s payroll. I mean 100% of the American workforce, which will be receiving those wages the government decides you need to exist and continue working at your government assigned job.

Where is your evidence for this? Who is proposing a government takeover of the entire economy?

Posted by: Warped Reality at May 9, 2011 11:02 AM
Comment #323002

Longstreet,

You start off with a vast statement and back it up with half-vast opinions. Nowhere in your screed do you cite actual fact.

“All the labor union demonstrations remind one of nothing more than the “useful idiots” Vladimir Lenin used to mock.”

The United States is a union. It is stated so in Preamble of the very Constitution you folks seem to throw around like so much confetti;

“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

How could it not be more clear? I would submit that anyone who is anti-union is also anti-American.

What could possibly be more American than a working stiff wanting to be able to negotiate for his own welfare and prosperity?

“Socialism is the slavery of forced labor. Americans will work for the government. I don’t mean the 48% of the American workforce who are on the government’s payroll.”

How exactly do you come up with these numbers?

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, out of the 136 million people employed in this country, only 22 million are employed by Government, and only 2.7 million of those are actually employed by the Federal government.

Where I come from that’s hardly 48%.

I have to assume you and your ilk will continue to scream that the sky is falling.

Fortunately, sooner or later more and more people will come to understand that it’s just not true.

Posted by: Rocky Marks at May 9, 2011 11:40 AM
Comment #323003

Mike-
Republicans are not good at making capitalism user friendly for most of their customers, so to speak. They allow it to run roughshod over people’s interests, to endanger the health of the economy.

Most of us aren’t the socialists Longstreet calls us. We just have an alternative version of capitalism in mind, one that more closely resembles the stable variety that served this country well for decades.

But by addressing things in that language, the Republicans change the conversation from a debate between rival versions of capitalism, to a debate between a highly dysfunctional form of capitalism which they prevent any real change to, and socialism, which older generations will not be too fond of, but which younger generations have no real experience with, one way or another.

The Republicans are selling a defective version of capitalism that all too well fits the kind of corruption that socialism claims to to fight. And they’re none too keen on the idea of fixing the defects.

Anybody who knows the economy knows that in a market, if you have this one buggy product that can’t work worth crap, and you contrast that with a new product, an untried one with new features, people will often rush to the other one, just so they can have some chance of changing their experience for the better.

If they’re satisfied with the product, though, they’ll be less inclined to switch.

For several decades, we made sure that the average American was on the whole satisfied with Capitalism. We gave them jobs, the ability to raise families and prosper on their wages. We gave them better technology and a lead in the world markets.

Today’s Radical Capitalists are willing to trade that all away if it affords them greater riches. They are not loyal to country, to local economies, or much of anything else. As a result, they don’t look out for the fortunes of the folks they depend upon.

Adam Smith would tell you that people look out for their own interests. Sooner or later, if the Radical Capitalists don’t look out for the common good, people will look out for it themselves, at their expense.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 9, 2011 12:07 PM
Comment #323005

JD just more far right talking points without merit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/08/primary-elections-2012_n_859037.html


As Americans look about them today, they can see the effects of just toying around with socialism: A nation in decline, a nation financially broke, a nation of people depressed, hurting, and angry, a nation deeply divided by the race baiting and class warfare imposed on them by a major political party in their grab for the power to rule America as the “elite class” in a socialist America.

After the past 30+ years, after the Country embraced conservatism you make this claim? Look at election results and you will find the mess we are in is due primarily to conservatism, conservatives and their failed ideology.

http://mw1.google.com/mw-earth-vectordb/gallery_layers/election2008/maps/historical_80.html


The conservative movement followers in the US today and the people of Germany of the 1930’s, is there a difference? I mean you guys had your way with the economy and the country and ran it into the ground. When do the movement followers realize they are being led around by their leaders and ruining the country in the process. Movement followers are the problem not the solution.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 9, 2011 12:43 PM
Comment #323014


It is quite apparent that right wing conservatives live in a make believe land of their own choosing. A land where they can relish their own ignorance, make up their own history and produce their own make believe statistics.

Every time they get on their high horse and become determined to rid the country of the hated social programs, the people smite them.

Hang in there conservatives, you are wining, slowly but surely. The Democrats seem willing to sacrifice Medicaid to save Medicare.

Posted by: jlw at May 9, 2011 3:47 PM
Comment #323016

Longstreet Are you on dope?

Posted by: Jeff at May 9, 2011 6:33 PM
Comment #323017

It is not unusual for many people to be jealous of others who may have more money than they do. Sometimes they form groups and lobby congress to make those having more share it with them. Usually, these are interest group liberals. It is nothing more than “entitleitis”. Those who are not as bright, don’t work as hard, get bad breaks and such feel that others who are smarter, work harder and got good breaks owe them something. Sometimes they even drag the constitution into their argument using the “welfare” clause as justification.

Over the years, as some interest group liberals have succeeded in electing politicians who will promise them something…and deliver, they still remain less smart, less inclined to work hard and yet find that the government teat is comforting indeed.

It has, and continues, to corrupt those who may otherwise take action to become more educated and to work harder. They see neighbors, friends, and relatives who “get” something extra from government for doing less, and it becomes attractive. And so, the litany of interest group liberalism grows and adds to its numbers of those wanting ever more for doing ever less.

“Something for nothing” has always been seductive and lures many with its siren song. In their pitiful minds they just can’t imagine life without government help. We see today many generations of welfare addicted families who know no other way. They live, breed, and die without ever knowing the joy of hard work and accomplishment. Government has robbed them of their very souls.

And, they have many promoters and defenders as can be easily seen by reading comments here on WatchBlog. We read liberals writing that we, those who work to become educated and work to earn a check and pay income taxes, must do more. We read that despite the fact that nearly 50% of our fellow Americans pay no income tax at all (and in some cases even get money back without having paid any tax) that those who do work and earn must pay more to add even more to this select group of “takers”.

This group of “takers” contribute nothing of value to the common welfare and urge more to climb on the wagon for the free ride rather than getting in harness to help pull the load.

Now we find that not only have many Americans discovered the power of interest group liberalism, but illegal aliens are encouraged to come here and join the party that others continue to pay for.

Never once do we read here by our liberal friends just how they think this can continue. Their only interest appears to be in the political power these groups exercise. It is beyond my ability to understand how anyone could believe this is the right course for our nation, or how it can continue ad infinitum.

Of course, the liberals are just smart enough to know that others must pay the bills. The “others” are of course those who work and earn more than liberals believe they are entitled to keep for themselves. They also target corporations who are successful in earning money for those who have invested in them. While not investors themselves, and consequently having no risk, liberals demand that corporations share the wealth with the non investors. These corporations must be punished for making money by taking more from them. Never mind that such a policy robs the investor of his/her earnings for risking his/her own money.

Many retired Americans have worked hard to become educated and to earn a decent living. They have some savings invested in these same corporations being targeted for robbery by the liberal and their welfare followers. They tell us it is “only fair” and “just” and “right” that those who have must share more with those who have not.

I have a newsflash for those welfare kings and queens dancing so gleefully to the music we provide. The party is over, the dance has ended, and you are going to be asked to stand up and pull the wagon with the rest of us. You’re free ride is ending.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 9, 2011 7:07 PM
Comment #323018

The race to sit in the socialist wagon will end when we require all those who are not retired and not disabled to work for their government endowment. They can choose between working for government benefits or for a private paycheck. Those with young families will be required to share babysitting duties while the others work on community projects.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 9, 2011 7:46 PM
Comment #323019

RF,

“They also target corporations who are successful in earning money for those who have invested in them. While not investors themselves, and consequently having no risk, liberals demand that corporations share the wealth with the non investors. These corporations must be punished for making money by taking more from them. Never mind that such a policy robs the investor of his/her earnings for risking his/her own money.”

If the jobs these companies once “provided” have been shipped overseas what good exactly do these companies do for America?
Investors? Really?
What about John Q. Public that made the products that made these companies and their investors all of the money?
The cities, and the employees that bent over for the companies that decided to take their business off to greener pastures elsewhere are left to hold the bag, and to often times clean up the messes left behind.
The investors could give a damn about the little people as long as those dividends keep rolling in.

BTW, where are all of these jobs that the right said were sure to come when the tax reductions were extended?

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at May 9, 2011 7:52 PM
Comment #323021

Rocky, by your comments I understand that you are a “free” wagon rider who would like to punish those who own stock in our corporations. I also understand by your comment that you are one of the “little people” that those who invest in America’s engines of commerce should support because it’s “fair”, and “just” and “right”.

It has probably never occurred to you why corporations, and for that matter, mom and pop businesses, do what they do. Liberals are filled with hatred for our corporations. Is it because they are successful and make a profit? Or, is it because they won’t share with the “little people” who never invested a dollar in them or spent a day working for them?

Liberal comments like yours Rocky are a dime a dozen and meaningless. Bitch, whine and complain because others won’t share more of the pie that they, themselves, baked while the “freeloaders” sat on their ass salivating waiting for their unearned share.

You, and those who think like, you are in for a big surprise. Your gravy train of government handouts for doing nothing is ending. You will be required to work for your daily bread in the near future.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 9, 2011 8:08 PM
Comment #323022

Rocky, show me the document I signed that entitles you to a share of any profits I make by investing in American corporations. Profits you demand of which you played no part in earning, either by sharing risk or working for me.

You wish to place your hand in my pocket when I prosper but are not there for support when I don’t. You are a “Good Time Charlie” and I have no use for such foolishness.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 9, 2011 8:25 PM
Comment #323023

What disappoints me about conservatives is that they frequently fail to analyze a problem with basic business common sense. It is always rigid ideology that dictates their view. Socialism is always bad and a free market is always better.

But, this IMO, is not always true. The principal example that comes to mind is health care. All developed nations have universal health care, except ours. All developed nations have some form of nationalized insurance or national direct health care delivery, except ours. All developed nations spend per capita half or less than we do for health care. All have better or equal mortality and morbidity outcomes compared to ours. This makes no economic sense.

Sometimes, it just makes economic sense to explore (gasp!) a socialized approach to an economic problem such as health care. When the current private market approach to health care results in a developing threat to our national economy and the health care of the nation, it is time to explore alternatives. This maybe heresy to conservatives. But it is basic business common sense. Consider the contrast between Great Britain and the United States. The best example of a socialized system vs. private. The UK spends approximately 7.5% of its GDP on health care. The US spends approximately 17.5%. That’s a difference of 10 percentage points of GDP! Remember, the UK NHS covers everybody. In a recent multi country study, the UK received high grades in satisfaction and outcome when compared to other industrialized nations including the US. Better or the same outcome for less than half the cost!

The rest of the world has adopted a better business model for the delivery of health care to its population. It time to consider alternatives, if we wish to remain competitive.

Posted by: Rich at May 9, 2011 9:00 PM
Comment #323024

RF,

“You wish to place your hand in my pocket when I prosper but are not there for support when I don’t. You are a “Good Time Charlie” and I have no use for such foolishness.”

This statement is utter crap.

I want nothing from you.

What I want is for those that once had jobs working to produce the profit you enjoy to get their jobs back.
What I want is for the communities that bent over to lure, and then were abandoned by the corporations that pay your dividend check to be whole again.

My business is down 75% from before the fall. Yet I am not asking for a hand out as you imply.
In the neighborhood I live in the value of the houses is down more than 50%. Yet I am not asking for a loan.

Your righteous indignation at the plight of others less well off than you is typical right wing bullshit and bluster, and it is merely what I have come to expect.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at May 9, 2011 9:27 PM
Comment #323025
Republican and conservatives worry about socialism because they’ve been taught rather erroneously that a system that lets capitalists, that is the corporate elite and the big moneymakers, do whatever they want is the only true form of capitalism, indeed of freedom and independence.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 9, 2011 08:23 AM

I always say if someone starts with an untrue statement, there is no need to continue to listen to them. Such is the case with Stephen Daugherty’s statement quoted above. Stephen Daugherty’s statement is a good example of fear mongering and class warfare and an errie absense of government intervention.

There’s one thing I can point out about Stephen Daugherty’s quote; his subliminal recognition of the fundemental truth. His statement starts with “Republican and conservatives” and ends with “freedom and independence.”.

That sounds like the true path to me.


JD Longstreet,
Once again you make a lot of accusations, but provide very few details to support your claims.

Posted by: Warped Reality at May 9, 2011 11:02 AM

Warped Reality, do you think we didn’t understand the name “Social Security”? How about “The Great Society”? Remember that? Medi-“Care”, Medic”aid”? We, as a “Society”, bought it hook, line, and sinker for the last century. Socialists don’t understand that the “living document” argument goes both ways. We can repeal the 16th and 17th amendments as well as the 27th or the 11th. Our Constitution allows it and history confirms it. The established elite J. D. Longstreet refers to must fight against any movement that would repeal the destruction the Progressive era has caused this last century.

Mike- Republicans are not good at making capitalism user friendly for most of their customers, so to speak. They allow it to run roughshod over people’s interests, to endanger the health of the economy.

Most of us aren’t the socialists Longstreet calls us. We just have an alternative version of capitalism in mind, one that more closely resembles the stable variety that served this country well for decades.


Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 9, 2011 12:07 PM

Mike, Stephen Daugherty is refering to the decades the Democratic Party has lived high off the hog during the last century. He fails to mention the cost of that hog roast, and is trying but cannot explain, how another hog roast is needed.

The conservative movement followers in the US today and the people of Germany of the 1930’s, is there a difference? I mean you guys had your way with the economy and the country and ran it into the ground. When do the movement followers realize they are being led around by their leaders and ruining the country in the process. Movement followers are the problem not the solution.
Posted by: j2t2 at May 9, 2011 12:43 PM

j2t2, J. D. Longstreet was describing the people who plan these types of economic catastrophies. It’s like a culling of the wealth. Any fruitful society would do it, in some form, as a means to finance it’s growth. Do you really think the dollars just evaporated into thin air and a Republican just happened to be to blame? To blame it on a conservative or liberal movement, or a Republican or Democratic Party is subterfuge.

The way it’s done now is wrong. The way it was done when the Constitution was the rave has a better chance at starting another progressive era than trying to take the road of good intentions into the depths of hell.

The bail out money should have gone to the people who owned the morgage, not the bank that held the morgage. The Federal Reserve could have added a few zeros and subtracted a few zeros and the American Economy could have kept chugging along. But that didn’t happen, did it? The way it’s done now is wrong.
I dare Jay Leno to do a man on the street asking; “What is a Tallaban?”. It will prove the way it’s done now is wrong.

I think we should start refering to ourselves as the most apethetic nation. Let’s actually get the UN to do what we want and ask it to do a survey of apethetic nations. Let’s see where we come up on that one!

Longstreet Are you on dope?
Posted by: Jeff at May 9, 2011 06:33 PM


I got a job, so I’m going to bed.

G’nite Gracey!

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2011 9:29 PM
Comment #323026

RF,

Your rhetoric is a strawman for me. I’m not defending cash welfare programs. Nonetheless, you never cite any evidence that these “welfare kings & queens” actually exist. I thought we did away with those after Clinton signed Welfare Reform into law.

Posted by: Warped Reality at May 9, 2011 9:31 PM
Comment #323027

WW,

do you think we didn’t understand the name “Social Security”? How about “The Great Society”? Remember that? Medi-“Care”, Medic”aid”? We, as a “Society”, bought it hook, line, and sinker for the last century.

All those programs originated decades ago. JD Longstreet’s thesis is that the US has recently made a dramatic shift towards socialism, which he fails to prove.

Obviously, those programs need varying amounts of reform in order to keep us from plunging even further into debt, but this wasn’t mentioned by Mr. Longstreet.

Since our nation’s founding, we’ve enjoyed a mixed economy of mostly capitalism with a little bit of socialism. Usually we’ve used socialism to establish equal opportunity for all citizens (but not equal outcomes). We’ve also used blurred the lines between capitalism and socialism in order to correct the few market failures that happen to exist such as natural monopolies and externalities.

Posted by: Warped Reality at May 9, 2011 9:44 PM
Comment #323028

Royal Flush,

Stop with the whining for corporations and the allegation that liberals are against business.

Corporate share of federal tax revenue is at an all time low. It has been declining steadily over the past few decades. US Corporate taxes as a percent of GDP are in the lower rankings of OCED nations.

This whole discussion of corporate taxes is basically a moot issue anyway. Obama has said repeatedly that he is in favor of a reduction of the statutory corporate rate and elimination of tax avoidance provisions of the current tax code. I don’t believe that there is really any difference in concept between that approach and conservative proposals.

As for personal income derived from investments in corporations (passive income-dividends, capital gains}, why should it be taxed at a lower rate than earned income? Does that really make any sense? Who does it favor? Hint, it isn’t the poor and the middle class.

Posted by: Rich at May 9, 2011 9:55 PM
Comment #323033

Didn’t you say you were 20something, Warped Reality?

You couldn’t possibly know what “going to bed” means, no?.

I’m very interested in responding to your “little bit of socialism” remark. It sounds like a chink in your political armor, but that “going to bed” thing gets in the way.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2011 10:20 PM
Comment #323035

WW,

I wasn’t expecting you to reply to my comment until tomorrow morning.

In any case, I’ll expound on what I meant by a “little bit of socialism”. As I said before, “We’ve also used blurred the lines between capitalism and socialism in order to correct the few market failures that happen to exist such as natural monopolies and externalities”

Keep in mind that every service provided by the government is socialized. Since the 1790s, the federal government has provided us with a vast array of services. Evidently, the founders felt that some things were best not left to the free market. These things include (but are not limited to) the courts, the military, the transportation sector and the postal service.

Posted by: Warped Reality at May 9, 2011 11:30 PM
Comment #323049

I want nothing from you.

What I want is for those that once had jobs working to produce the profit you enjoy to get their jobs back.
What I want is for the communities that bent over to lure, and then were abandoned by the corporations that pay your dividend check to be whole again.

My business is down 75% from before the fall. Yet I am not asking for a hand out as you imply.
In the neighborhood I live in the value of the houses is down more than 50%. Yet I am not asking for a loan.

Your righteous indignation at the plight of others less well off than you is typical right wing bullshit and bluster, and it is merely what I have come to expect.

Posted by: Rocky Marks at May 9, 2011 09

Since you advocate for those who do want more from me I place you in that group.

Yes, we all want jobs to return to our shores. There are many ways to accomplish that and none of them involves taxing corporations more.

You may not be asking me directly for a handout but those you advocate for are. We are spending more than enough to feed, clothe house, educate and medically treat those unwilling or unable to do so for themselves. Beyond those basic needs, I am not willing to provide more.

The idea that no one should be poor in America and thus those who have much must be required to share is insane. The liberal theory of “fair” involves everyone to be equally poor. Our founding documents are not a contract that provides for the taking from one to give to another.

All who are able to work must work. If not for a private paycheck, then for the basic necessities being provided for by others thru government programs.

If the value of homes in your neighborhood are down 50% you can find many reasons to explain why and not one of them has to do with corporations and individuals not paying enough in taxes. Why in the world would anyone believe that those who have more should come to their rescue.

Our country does not live within its means. We spend too much money we don’t have for things we don’t need.

I and many millions of other Americans have worked hard all our lives to spend what we have earned and saved as we wish. I will not allow someone to dictate to me that I must share ever more of a lifetime of effort with others who refuse to work and be responsible for themselves.

The free-ride for loafers will end soon.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 10, 2011 1:29 PM
Comment #323051

RF,

“You may not be asking me directly for a handout but those you advocate for are.”

Really?

No really?

Where exactly have I advocated a handout for anyone?

Point it out to me, I dare you.

Your diatribe on me is totally misplaced. I have, in the past, said I am willing to pay a bit more in taxes to help those in need. Please note the emphasis.

I want jobs. I want people put back to work, and I don’t know how I can be more plain.

Corporations are not the be all, end all of this country, though some people would like us to think so.
Business is cyclical, yet the employees, not the shareholders, are the people that take it in the shorts when times get a little tough.
Corporations are showing strong profits. CEOs rate of pay is at or above what it was before everything tanked, yet the unemployment rate is still hovering around 9%.

There is something very, very wrong with that picture.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at May 10, 2011 2:04 PM
Comment #323058

Royal Flush-
You want an enemy to fight, so you invent one. Even Welfare, your biggest boogeyman, no longer takes that shape. It’s restricted largely to mothers with children, and it requires them to work as well.

The bulk of government social spending is on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Social Security and Medicare are the biggest of those programs. People pay special taxes that feed into those, and those taxes and their burden fall mainly on the poor and middle class, since the income that can be taxed on that premise is capped.

In other words, your argument’s full of crap.

You talk about the rich paying more and more taxes, but weren’t you the folks who set the tax rates like that? More to the point, isn’t the disproportionate percentage of the income taxes the rich pay the natural consequence of the disproportionate income the rich pay themselves?

What makes this even more ridiculous in my opinion is that you act like the last seventeen years of politics never happened. You act like there aren’t huge subsidies going to your friends, that the Republicans haven’t acted to make sure that investors were made whole, without even the strings attached necessary to make sure the recovery filtered down to homeowners, small businesses, and folks seeking consumer finance.

If the Republicans seek to define any interference a socialism, we might as well define what the Republicans do as upper-class socialism.

Lord forbid we do away with the tax cuts for the rich. Lord Forbid we quit padding the income of the companies pulling down the highest profits of any in this country. We don’t have enough money to invest in clean energy, but we sure as hell have enough to reward people for looking for new oil, to socialize the expense of their finding their own product, rather than let the business pay to sustain itself.

Lord forbid we pay companies tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas when we have none to spare here.

The GOP’s brilliant at marketing itself as the party of the free market, but what it better resembles in practice and attitude is the GOP of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Most people have no experience of those times, and that includes the tea partiers who say “Keep government’s hands off my Medicare!”

In fact, nobody has any living experience of what the kind of small government they’re aiming for will actually behave like.

And those same folks forget something else: ultimately, Americans rejected that system. Ultimately, people traded small government for something else.

I always say if someone starts with an untrue statement, there is no need to continue to listen to them.

And if somebody starts out with such a blatant fallacy of logic, I feel duty-count to take their arguments apart.

Capitalism is defined merely by the fact that we allow private ownership of the means of production. The Free Market is not defined by regulatory anarchy, like you seem to believe. The term was meant to contrast with a variety of economic system that operated by strict economic controls, where the markets were not allowed to set prices.

Your people, in fact, undermine your own argument that market forces are the only and best determinant of economic behavior. Else, what are all the tax breaks and other hidden subsidies? Why are we compelled to feed in tens of billions of dollars to the oil companies that already make billions in profit? Wouldn’t it be true, according to that theory, that the government should abstain from those tax breaks, and simply let the oil companies pay for their search for their own oil?

Ahhh, you say, but then wouldn’t the market set the prices higher? Oh, but then, that would be market forces setting the price higher! That would be the good outcome, wouldn’t it be?

This is not a new development from the Republicans. As much as they decry subsidies, I have not heard the end of their calls for tax breaks and tax subsidies since the beginning of their majority in 1994.

Or put another way, the Republican Party’s policies on taxation and free market economics were two-faced from the beginning. It’s advertisement. It lets you talk about freedom and independence, use those glittering words of wonderment, as if they had much to do with the policies that are really there to help your conservative interest groups make more money.

As for Class Warfare, tell me, why do we see most Republican efforts and most Republican rhetoric beating down on workers, on retirees, on the fortunes of the poor and unemployed? Without the Medicare plan Ryan was peddling, not even the best case scenario Ryan puts forward balances the budget. What’s more, studies indicate that because of the reduction of economies of scale, seniors would pay several times more for healthcare services under Ryan’s plan.

Ah, but the Federal Government will save money!

The established elite J. D. Longstreet refers to must fight against any movement that would repeal the destruction the Progressive era has caused this last century.

That’s funny, because I sort of noticed this country becoming the pre-eminent economic power in the last century. Is that the “destruction” that’s been caused this last century?

The destruction has come from the American people looking out for the interests of those who can look out for their own interests just fine. Why should Americans give up a low tax rate, benefits that prevent old age from being equivalent to destitution, that slows the decline of health, and lets people enjoy a better quality of life?

You may be bitter that Democrats benefited well from the former arrangement of things, but Democrats benefited because people benefited. That’s how its supposed to work: competence and skill is rewarded. Unfortunately, having become prosperous, people became open to arguments that appealed to their desire to get yet more. Unfortunately, those arguments were stalking horses for proposals meant to benefit the already rich and powerful at their detriment.

Americans saw more risk, more debt, and more danger to themselves shifted their way, their salaries and wages stagnating as the rich and powerful saw their earnings skyrocket.

You want to talk about class warfare, well Republicans and their interest groups have engaged in a war against the interests of the poor and disadvantage, the working and middle classes, and our current situation, with people badly indebted, the consumer economy struggling, and growth slowed dramatically, is the consequence.

You want to talk about the costs of all the debt we built up, but where did most of that debt come from? Tax cuts and military spending. Yes, Virginia, those do constitute deficit expanding measures, even if they represent the political sacred cows of the right.

It is those things that the Republicans are unwilling to face up to, and it is those things that have put us in the position we are now.

If we had simply stuck with the status quo fiscal policy of 2000, if we had continued Paygo, and paid for any new spending with new taxes or offsets of old programs, we could have avoided the lion’s share of the debt we now suffer under now.

Or put another way, if we did things differently than the Republicans decided to do them, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 10, 2011 4:03 PM
Comment #323063
Keep in mind that every service provided by the government is socialized. Since the 1790s, the federal government has provided us with a vast array of services. Evidently, the founders felt that some things were best not left to the free market. These things include (but are not limited to) the courts, the military, the transportation sector and the postal service.

Posted by: Warped Reality at May 9, 2011 11:30 PM

All of the examples you’ve cited are dictated in the Constitution. The Transportation sector is pushing it, but falls under the postal service to establish post roads. There’s nothing in the Constitution that says the government must build and maintain roads for it’s citizens’ convience. It is in the government’s scope to define a charter for a corporation to follow in building and maintaining the roads in it’s jurisdiction.

Water is a commodity. We don’t have a right to it. The government isn’t mandated by the constitution to provide it to every citizen. Governments often provide water to it’s citizens as a matter of expediency but could easily define a charter for a corporation to do the exact same function.
Education is another example of government socialism. I often wonder at the double standard that is obvious with the overpowering monopoly the government has on the education system in this country and the way a private monopoly is treated.

It’s a choice. Our fathers made it decades ago. The problem is the federal government doesn’t think giving us another chance to choose is in our best interest. That’s why it’s ignoring the requests from the states for amendments. The 17th amendment was a mistake that destroyed our constitution. Just as Prohibition was a mistake so was the direct election of senators. Will you help to correct this mistake or will you accomodate the problem with more government control and a more conforming, dependent citizenry?

There’s a choice for you, Warped Reality. If you choose to make it. J. D. Longstreet understands how our country is heading down the wrong path. Don’t suffer the same mistake I’ve been making at my new job!

I’m now a cabinet builder. I build the face of the cabinet using a pocket hole joint. I glue it and screw it. My biggest problem was cracking the wood during this procedure. I focused on why the wood was cracking and my mind blanked out other problems that ruined the lives of others building the rest of the cabinet. It truly was like the blind spot in the eye. Did you every look at one specific point to make another object disappear from your view? That’s how this other problem was with me! I could not recognize this problem even when it was returned to me. I had to ask, “What’s wrong with this?” I was steadilly loosing the confidence of my boss and my co-workers.

I finally got the hint to shift my gaze when my “customer” that uses my product wrote a note that was not flattering at all. I’m required to initial every piece I build with a W. I was congratulated for being able to spell my name, among other criticisms, in this note.

Less focus on the things I can’t control and more focus on the things I can. Local government first, state government second, federal govenrment last. That’s the way an individual citizen should look at government. That is how the individual citizen should pay his taxes.

Are you ready to shift your gaze, Warped Reality? Try examining the roll of government in this country before the progressive ear and compare it to the current roll of government. There is no comparison. The difference is night and day. This difference is facilitated by the 17th amendment. If we could return to the pre-17th amendment-checks-and-balances to our federal government the sky would clear and the world would have the same hope that brought them here two centuries ago.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 10, 2011 5:59 PM
Comment #323065

Post Script:

The advantages and practices of the progressive era, while not successful, are indeed valuable for the individual if the individual were to have the ability to mimic Social Security programs. My last comment mentioned the use of corporations many times. The corporation is a tool of the elected government. This country’s pride and energy comes from freeing itself from the same simptom we suffer again, today.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 10, 2011 6:52 PM
Comment #323068
Or put another way, if we did things differently than the Republicans decided to do them, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 10, 2011 04:03 PM


Let’s put things in perspective, Stephen Daugherty. If the progressive era had not happened we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 10, 2011 8:00 PM
Comment #323073

I just saved 3 million jobs. Prove me wrong.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 10, 2011 10:11 PM
Comment #323088
All of the examples you’ve cited are dictated in the Constitution.

Well duh. The 10th amendment prevents the Federal government from doing anything other than what is prescribed in the rest of the Constitution.

Water is a commodity. We don’t have a right to it. The government isn’t mandated by the constitution to provide it to every citizen. Governments often provide water to it’s citizens as a matter of expediency but could easily define a charter for a corporation to do the exact same function. Education is another example of government socialism.
Exactly right.
I often wonder at the double standard that is obvious with the overpowering monopoly the government has on the education system in this country and the way a private monopoly is treated.
This is because public monopolies are answerable to the voters, whereas private monopolies are answerable to no one.
Will you help to correct this mistake or will you accomodate the problem with more government control and a more conforming, dependent citizenry?
The founders originally kept the masses from electing Senators because the median American in 1790 was illiterate, but the advances in public education in the 19th century have made an educated electorate possible. This was recognized at the turn of the century, which led to the 17th amendment. Personally, I’d do away with the Senate in it’s entirely or seriously reform it.
Local government first, state government second, federal govenrment last. That’s the way an individual citizen should look at government. That is how the individual citizen should pay his taxes.
This is actually a very interesting point, especially in light of the 10th amendment. Originally, things like providing care for the needy were dealt with on the local level. I don’t know if it’s feasible to return to this stae of affairs, but I am curious to hear any proposals. Posted by: Warped Reality at May 11, 2011 5:23 PM
Comment #323102

I am curious to hear any proposals. Posted by: Warped Reality at May 11, 2011 05:23 PM


The reason it isn’t dealt with on a local level is because cities have become so huge that local means nothing to the individual. If local meant “the floor of their building” local, and they treated the borders of their floor as their own community, then they would regain a sence of security provided by themselves, instead of relying on a 911 call and waiting, hoping to survive the ordeal.

Let’s stop demonizing the church. Make it an equal and allow it to compete with federal government’s welfare programs.

Let’s shift our gaze and see what’s under the blind spot when we trust the church again.

Let’s define a corporation’s charter before it is issued instead of allowing every individual a hiding place behind a corporate logo. Let there be a purpose to issueing this charter approved by the local government.

Businesses should be allowed to be owned by individuals who won’t suffer the threat of a lawsuit from pranksters. We must allow the individual the ability to go into business without the need to hide behind a “corporation”.

What shay ya, Warped Reality? Arya ready t’shift yer gaze and reveal the blind spot yew’ve been hiding all this while.

That was a Sean Connery impression gone horribly wrong.

Sorry about that, Warped Reality! I just got a new job.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 11, 2011 10:44 PM
Comment #323103
The reason it isn’t dealt with on a local level is because cities have become so huge that local means nothing to the individual. If local meant “the floor of their building” local, and they treated the borders of their floor as their own community, then they would regain a sence of security provided by themselves, instead of relying on a 911 call and waiting, hoping to survive the ordeal.
Intrigui9ng, I sort of like it, but I don’t know how it would work if we actually tried to implement it. Although reviving the trust that comes with small scale organization is a worthy goal, the ability to collectively organize large groups is also very important. It’s a big reason many of our largest cities grew by annexing nearby communities. In Boston, the neighborhoods of Roxbury, Dorchester, Roslindale etc were all separate communities before they were overrun by urbanization and annexed by Boston. Brooklyn & Queens were originally independent of New York City, etc.
Let’s stop demonizing the church. Make it an equal and allow it to compete with federal government’s welfare programs.

Let’s shift our gaze and see what’s under the blind spot when we trust the church again.


I don’t know what you are proposing here. The church is independent of the government; any criticism it receives comes from private citizens exercising their first amendment rights. I don’t know what you have in mind when you want the church to compete with federal welfare.
Let’s define a corporation’s charter before it is issued instead of allowing every individual a hiding place behind a corporate logo. Let there be a purpose to issueing this charter approved by the local government.

Businesses should be allowed to be owned by individuals who won’t suffer the threat of a lawsuit from pranksters. We must allow the individual the ability to go into business without the need to hide behind a “corporation”.


I agree. Our predecessors created the concept of incorporation with intentions very different than those of people seeking incorporation today.
Sorry about that, Warped Reality! I just got a new job.

Glad to hear that. I guess that means you should be in bed now. That is, unless your new job is with Mi6, in which case I have no idea what you’re up to. Posted by: Warped Reality at May 11, 2011 11:24 PM
Comment #323104

I should, but I just reheated a batch of sausage and sourkrout. Not very fond of sourkrout but my indurance has increased with the hours I’ve been working. The crackers I put in to soak up the sause adds a great deal and justifies my tardiness in retiring.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 11, 2011 11:37 PM
Comment #323150

literacy around the time of the American Revolution was estimated to be 90%. This was due to the church and not the government. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who declared that to find an illiterate man in New England, was as rare as a commit.

The Church and not the government was responsible for establishing the first 123 colleges in this country.

The reason the pilgrims almost perished in thier first year is because they tried to set up a government based on socialism or a commune if you will.

Their are good people and bad. Their are the industrious and the lazy. Without incentives, the best being the free market system, you will soon find that the nonproductive will soon far out weigh the producers and you will find yourself in our current situation.

J. D. Longstreet, that was the most uplifting article and I don’t think there was anything you said with wich I did’t agree.


I was a soldier at the end of Vietnam and after. I don’t know how the medical and dental provided by the Army is now but it was free and over priced when I was in.

If you had to go to the dispencary, you were rudely treated by poeple, who I could only surmise, hated their jobs and assumed you were there to try to get out of a detail…a malingerer.

After setting on a mettle folding chair for 7 Hrs with a fever of 103, I was finally called in to see a doctor who plainly didn’t want to be there and treated me as an iconvenience. After some questions that I wasn’t sure he was listening to the answers, he ordered a chest X-Ray. When it come back , only then did his demeanor change and I was told I had Pneumonia.

The dental was so backed up that you were not allowed to see a dentist until you were getting ready to be dicharged. Of course by then you needed at least one root canal and believe me you haven’t lived until you have had a root canal by an Army dentist.

My point here is that when you go to a doctor or dentist, they are concerned with your comfort, amount of pain and trying not to waste too much of your time because you are the customer and the more customers they have the greater their reward. whereas a Government paid employee doesn’t care if your there or not. In fact the less he has to do for his salary the better.

Another point : How long do you think it will take you to see a doctor once the government opens up all of this “free” health care once all the Munchausen people start clogging up the system.

We don’t have a health care problem in this country. In truth , the problem is the people who say we do, realy mean they what someone else to pay for it.

What we have is an economic problem. You fix that by making it easier to to business in America not more restrictive with more laws and higher taxes.

Posted by: Michael at May 13, 2011 9:04 PM
Comment #323160

At what point will we all declare that the “rich” have paid their fair share? Already, the top 2% pay 46% of the income tax collected. Where do you draw the line?

Studies have shown that if you confiscate all of the wealth that the top 2% have, it will only run the US Govt for 4 months. How much is enough?

Do the math. Last year the US Treasury took in 2.2 Trillon in revenues. Of that amount, 900 Billion was in the form of income taxes. Our projected expenses for this year are 3.6 Trillion. We are 1.4 Trillion short. If you double the taxes on the “rich” it still won’t be enough.

All the great ideas about heath care, welfare, education, childcare are fine, we just can’t afford them!!!!

WE DO NOT HAVE A TAXATION PROBLEM - WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM!!!

We are like a family of 4 with a 70,000 annual income, 100,000 in expenses and 275,000 in credit card debt. We just can’t afford all of the “good ideas” anymore….

Posted by: mikeyboy at May 14, 2011 9:57 AM
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