Hucked Up!

I have always liked former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee. He’s easy on the ears and has the calming effect of a erudite psychologist; his Southern Baptist charm and sensibilities reveal Huckabee’s small-town cache. Music stars, Hollywood moguls, John Q. Public and of course - politicos of every persuasion - open up to him.

However, the 2008 Republican presidential primary candidate, and presumably 2012 presidential GOP candidate has a new public relations problem. It’s actually turning into a nightmare.

Huckabee, while being  interviewed via radio by WOR's Steve Malzberg on March 1, 2011, had this to say regarding president Barack Obama:


After news of Huckabee’s Freudian slip about Barack Obama spread, Huckabee went silent himself. He dispatched a spokesman, J. Hogan Gidley, to assert that Huckabee “merely misspoke” and that Huckabee “meant to say the president grew up in Indonesia.”

Huckabee claimed,

“One thing that I do know is his having grown up in Kenya, his view of the Brits, for example, very different than the average American … But then if you think about it, his perspective as growing up in Kenya with a Kenyan father and grandfather, their view of the Mau Mau Revolution in Kenya is very different than ours because he probably grew up hearing that the British are a bunch of imperialists who persecuted his grandfather.”

After listening to the WOR radio interview myself, it would be very wise for Mike Huckabee to get out in front of this story. He should have a press conference, and without equivocation, he should denounce what he said in a passionate apology.

Huckabee is a seasoned politician and has wide appeal through his Mike Huckabee show on Fox News. His biggest hurdle will be his "Mau Mau" Revolution reference. That suggests that he wasn't talking about Indonesia as his press release states, but of Kenya instead.

Again, he must get out in front of this story forthwith, or suffer the consequences. I think he will speak publicly on this matter, and like any good Christian, his true character will surface by apologizing and asking for forgiveness.

After all, contrition is sometimes more powerful than rhetoric.

Posted by Kevin L. Lagola at March 2, 2011 11:57 AM
Comments
Comment #319450

Republican candidates, in order to appeal to hardliners and fans of Glenn Beck, are dancing on the edge of a volcano, and getting closer to the edge with every step.

Obama is ridiculously mild-mannered, so to get the greatest shock value, Republicans rely on the worst charges to make the worst impression on voters about Obama’s character.

So, they have to lie, more or less. Turn a political moderate into practically a Communist, A guy who merely sat in the audience for a fiery preacher into a religious demagogue who is his equal, or even more wierdly, a Muslim Extremist. Because Obama rarely even tries to push his luck on these things, Republicans end up imagining that he’s secretly immoderate.

And of course, once you venture past where you can prove anything, speculation can run around naked with its hair on fire, and nobody can stop it.

The Republicans disdain the mainstream media, disdain those who gainsay them. The sad consequence of this is that there’s nobody to say they’ve gone to far until the **** has hit the fan, and then they can either apologize and look weak, or double down on their errors.

Republicans, in my opinion, would profit from moderation, from a centrifying of their positions and their rhetoric. They need to look and feel like neighbors, not talk and sound like the fellow on the street corner you give wide berth to.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 2, 2011 12:34 PM
Comment #319453

Huckabee *should* apologize and denounce his statements.

But instead, for awhile, he’ll cling to his “I misspoke” defense (ignoring how someone can “misspeak FOUR TIMES in one sentence) just long enough until enough time passes for Beckites, Palindrones and the rest of the Fox News audience can deny he ever said it in the first place.

Then, when the fire gets hot enough, Huckabee will pretend to take the high road and declate that the issue shouldn’t be about what he said or didn’t say, but rather about “the issues.”

And the lemmings will follow him right over the historical-rewrite cliff.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at March 2, 2011 1:55 PM
Comment #319454

Kevin J. Legola wrote: “After all, contrition is sometimes more powerful than rhetoric.”


That’s true.

But contrition doesn’t raise nearly as much campaign funding.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at March 2, 2011 1:57 PM
Comment #319455

I like Mike Huckabee and sometimes watch his TV show. I do not want him to run for the Republican nomination for president for numerous reasons, one being, he can’t beat Obama. I hope and believe that he will make the appropriate apology.

Mr. Daugherty writes; “Republicans, in my opinion, would profit from moderation, from a centrifying of their positions and their rhetoric. They need to look and feel like neighbors, not talk and sound like the fellow on the street corner you give wide berth to.”

All Americans, in my opinion, would profit from moderation, not just Republicans. Here’s a snippet from an article on AOL news that vividly portrays some of the immoderate rhetoric coming from the dem and liberal camp.

“Uncivil language

During the protests, there have been signs comparing Gov. Walker to Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mubarak, even Satan. Some signs featured Walker’s face in crosshairs with the words “Don’t Retreat, Reload: Repeal Walker.” Another held a sign saying “Political Death to Tyrants.” Click here to see a gallery of signs (caution, several signs contain adult language).
On Feb. 22 in Boston, Rep. Michael Capuano, D-Mass., fired up a union crowd in front of the statehouse: “I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an e-mail to get you going. Every once [in] a while you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary.”
In Rhode Island, a union supporter called a cameraman a derogatory term for a homosexual and threatened to have anal sex with him.
In Ohio, a union activist called tea party members “corporate butt-lickers” and Nazis.”

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/02/opinion-whitewashing-wisconsin-s-protests/

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2011 2:04 PM
Comment #319457

RF, all of a sudden you’ve found a conscience and are denouncing ugly signs and sayings?? What a joke! We watched and listened to this crap for months, and you guys thought it was clever to see signs of white-faced Obama…or swastika-clad Obama, or Obama in the cross-hairs. You’re playing the typical little-boy bully now, running home for a hug.

In Ohio, a union activist called tea party members “corporate butt-lickers” and Nazis.”
And once again….your point is??? You can sure dish it out, but can’t take it in. Get over yourself.

Put your big-boy britches on and man up!

Posted by: jane doe at March 2, 2011 3:23 PM
Comment #319460


I would ask Huckabee about the Brits. Were they an imperial power that many people in many lands, including a people who call themselves citizens of The United States, fought to gain their independence. British Imperialism helped make the Middle East that we are dealing with today.

The right got Huckabee’s message, Obama was a member of the Mau Mau, Now all they have to do is look it up to confirm the information.

As far as I know, Glen Beck does not have exclusive rights to wave Nazi and communist flags and call others Nazi’s and communists.

It was all fun and games until the left started fighting back. The term Nazi may not fit the tea party members well but “corporate butt-lickers” seems quite appropriate.

Posted by: jlw at March 2, 2011 4:07 PM
Comment #319462

oom papa oom papa mau mau, oom papa oom papa mau mau, high ho silver away.

C’mon the gov was talkin’ about Elvira

Posted by: tom humes at March 2, 2011 4:40 PM
Comment #319463

Royal Flush-
Well, if Democrats are so uncivil in Wisconsin, why does Fox News have to bring in footage from Sacramento to show protestors getting rowdy?

Folks on the right, when confronted about their bad behavior, nearly always resort to talking about the left being equally bad. And why? Because if they instead acknowledged that their behavior was bad in and of itself, promised to reform, and cleaned up its act, they would lose the ability to use those intimidation tactics.

They would gain the moral high ground, though.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 2, 2011 4:53 PM
Comment #319466

SD

How do you measure spin, that is your kind.
Sour Pundit In Neutral.

Posted by: tom humes at March 2, 2011 5:25 PM
Comment #319469


What he meant to say was the P.K.I. The P.K.I. is different from what we know. ;)

Morning Joe has a humorous and informative clip about this subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/41867168#41867168

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 2, 2011 6:22 PM
Comment #319470

Re protesters left and right.

If the union protesters behave as well as the tea party does there should be no trouble.

The Democrats are the ones who set the standard for civility that they cannot seem to attain.

Posted by: C&J at March 2, 2011 6:30 PM
Comment #319471

Huckabee’s not going to apologize, because he seems to have “misspoken” about Obama’s background on purpose. This is about driving the Obama-is-Anti-American theme home. He’s running for president and he knows that many Republicans don’t care one iota about being truthful when it comes to their political opponents — and of course the birther contingent will now be eager to get behind him. Thus, today he doubled down on what he said yesterday:

Huckabee: And it’s really an indication of just how pathetic some of these folks are who claim to be journalists and reporters and have failed to do a decent job. You know, I admitted that I misspoke on that, but I corrected it. But what I have never done is taken to position that Obama was born in Kenya or Indonesia or anywhere other than Hawaii where he claims to have been born. Frankly Bryan, that is not a popular position with conservatives but it is the position I have consistently taken and I just am very amazed at the firestorm this has caused, especially in light of the fact that the talk show host himself has said there is nothing to it.

Fischer: Well Governor, what got lost in all the shuffle was the legitimate point that you were making which is that we may have a president who has some fundamentally anti-American ideas that may be rooted in a childhood where he had a father who was virulently anti-colonial, hated the British - might have something to do with the President returning the bust of Winston Churchill back to England. You know, I was struck by the fact that when he made his tour to Indonesia, he made a point of going to an Indonesian memorial that celebrated the victory of Indonesians over British troops - again, part of that anti-colonial thing. And so I’d like you to comment on that; you seem to think that there is some validity to the fact that there may be some fundamental anti-Americanism in this president.

Huckabee: Well, that’s exactly the point that I make in the book and I don’t know why these reporters - maybe they can’t read, I guess that’s part of it because it’s clearly spelled out and I’m quoting a British newspaper who really were expressing the outrage of the Brits over that bust being returned and the point was that they felt like that due to Obama’s father and grandfather it could be that his version and view of the Mau Mau Revolution was very different than most of the people who perhaps would grow up in the United States. And I have said many times, publicly, that I do think he has a different worldview and I think it is, in part, molded out of a very different experience. Most of us grew up going to Boy Scout meetings and, you know, our communities were filled with Rotary Clubs, not madrassas.

Here’s the link:
Huckabee And Fischer Agree That Obama’s Childhood Instilled “Fundamentally Anti-American Ideas” In Him

Posted by: Adrienne at March 2, 2011 6:34 PM
Comment #319472

Strange posts indeed. I called for civility from every American and Mr. Daugherty and Jane Doe are offended. Hmmm, mental disorder anyone?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2011 6:35 PM
Comment #319476

C&J-
No party can attain perfect civility. Some idiot always does something stupid. However, what I would say is that there are varying degrees of imperfection.

The Democrats want to be seen as normal. It’s basically a response to the vilification in the sixties and seventies of left-wing radicals by the right.

The Republicans simply don’t care. Their people go out with guns to counterprotest a Presidential rally. They accuse the President of being born outside the country. They take a simple provision about making sure grandpa and grandma have their affairs in order and their wishes known, should they go into critical care, and they call it a Death Panel. It’s like taking the licensing requirement by the states for driving a car and equating it to the bureaucratic process used by the Nazis to herd jews and other undesirables into death camps.

Some liberals don’t care either. They’re sick of walking on eggshells around Republican’s double standards. But folks like me like the notion that we win fair and square.

So, take a good long look at your party’s behavior, and think of how people would interpret it if they were not fed a ****load of justifications and rationalizations from the conservative media. Me, I don’t want my folks getting violent, because I think that plays into your folk’s hands. Do you have the same impression? Do you set the same standard?

Or do you think that the ends justify the means when it comes to beating folks like me?

Royal Flush-
Oh, dear, I do get offended when somebody who calls my system of beliefs a mental disorder says that my side isn’t civil enough. Why ever should I be so sensitive?

I don’t think your crazy, or that your beliefs stem from a mental defect. But I think your ideas are often wrong and bad, and that’s what I oppose.

But really, I want people to know why I oppose them, and to argue it well enough and comprehensively enough that a person has to disregard what I say out of partisan bias in order not to admit I’ve got a point. I want you to have no other way out than spin and rhetorical squirminess.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 2, 2011 7:57 PM
Comment #319477


C&J yeah, that was stupid of the Democrats. The Democratic Party has also reduced it’s support for workers to a point that it cannot maintain.

Shall we juxtapose the causes that the workers and the tea party are championing?

Did you think workers were just going to roll over.

Your side has been spoiling for a fight, well now you’ve got it.

Tom humes, your sides nonexistent 80% majority is evaporating rapidly. That is how I measure spin.

Posted by: jlw at March 2, 2011 7:59 PM
Comment #319480

I have a bad habit of getting offended when people p**s on my leg and tell me it’s raining, flush.
You called for?????? Do you think someone died and left you in charge of something?
And I’m not nearly as offenDED as you are offenSIVE.
Once again….get over yourself.

Posted by: jane doe at March 2, 2011 8:14 PM
Comment #319481


Stephen, how can folks like you win fair and square with the politicians that you support? How can folks like you win fair and square if you think Obama is better than Bush was. Their directives come from the same source. Both have touted Main Street while serving Wall Street.

The rhetoric of the Democratic party has changed little over the years. The actions of the Democratic party have changed dramatically.

Posted by: jlw at March 2, 2011 8:35 PM
Comment #319482

Stephen

Democrats Rep. Gordon Hintz, for example, yelled “your F— Dead at Republican Rep. Michelle Litjens. A big guy picking on a young woman would be big liberal news.

I also saw demonstrators surrounding individuals almost pinning them to walls, blowing whistles in their faces.

You may ignore the people calling the governor of Wisconsin a Nazi, Stalin etc.

Democrats really should call off the dogs if they want to be seen as normal. As you say, the anger and the violence we see in Madison do indeed play into preconceived notions. Sorry if Democratic actions speak louder than their words that they are civil.


re violence - I don’t follow the Democratic standard. We have a higher standard than that. Much higher. I am a little old fashioned on this, but I think it is really bad manners for a big guy to go up to a woman sitting by herself and tell her that she is F—-ing dead.

Posted by: C&J at March 2, 2011 8:52 PM
Comment #319486

jlw
describe my side. I thought so. You don’t know. Then don’t pretend to know “my side”.

Posted by: tom humes at March 2, 2011 10:46 PM
Comment #319487

Royal and C&J the problem here it seems is more the infiltration of these protest with tea party/Koch bros. out of state agitators than it is with actual union workers. Those signs that seem left over from tea bagger rallies probably are. Face it Faux is using outright lies to discredit the teachers and municipal workers why would you think the Koch bros and their tea party thugs wouldn’t do the same?

The ability of these teachers and municipal workers, that are voicing their first amendment rights in Madison, to show the restraint they have when their livelihoods are endangered by corrupt Government authoritarians is remarkable. Anyone making these false claims of violence is falling victim to the authoritarians propaganda, IMHO.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 2, 2011 10:59 PM
Comment #319488

j2t2 writes:

“Royal and C&J the problem here it seems is more the infiltration of these protest with tea party/Koch bros. out of state agitators than it is with actual union workers. Those signs that seem left over from tea bagger rallies probably are. Face it Faux is using outright lies to discredit the teachers and municipal workers why would you think the Koch bros and their tea party thugs wouldn’t do the same?

The ability of these teachers and municipal workers, that are voicing their first amendment rights in Madison, to show the restraint they have when their livelihoods are endangered by corrupt Government authoritarians is remarkable. Anyone making these false claims of violence is falling victim to the authoritarians propaganda, IMHO.


Are you blind? I guess you also missed the over one-hundred general and specific death threats that Gov. Walker received via Twitter as a chimera too?

“corrupt government authoritarians…authoritarians (sic) propoganda” Jeez! Someone has been watching too much Ed Schulz or Rachel Maddow and is hereby now divorced from reality.

I’d love to hear one clear, concise, or even lucid argument, as to what is so bad with Wisconsin’s Budget Repair Bill and how it usurps one’s natural and/or human rights.

All hear about is “union-busting, Koch Bros., wealthy Wall Street CEO’s, stepping on the working man and my favorite - the wealthy corporatites leaning on the backs of the middle class.”


As liberal columnist John Avlon writes at the Daily Beast:


“Public-sector unions reflexively call any proposed reduction in money or power “anti-union.” They could also be fairly described as “pro-taxpayer.”

Like many governors across the country, Scott Walker came into office facing a multibillion-dollar budget gap—$3.4 billion over two years. As part of the needed dose of fiscal discipline, he followed through on a campaign promise to get government workers to put some money toward their pensions and increase contributions for their health-care package. Democrats reluctantly agreed. But then Walker insisted on something more—a curtailing of collective bargaining. The unions acted like war had been declared and Democratic legislators escaped the state seeking to delay the vote.

“Walker is trying to do more than just balance this year’s budget with his proposals. He’s trying to give himself tools to more easily manage the budget throughout his entire tenure,” said Steven Malanga, author of the new book Shakedown: The Continuing Conspiracy Against the American Taxpayer.

“He wants the same flexibility the president of the United States has on managing compensation going forward. Federal workers have fewer collective-bargaining rights than what Walker is proposing in Wisconsin,” said Malanga, who noted that the president’s proposed five-year pay freeze on federal workers would be essentially impossible to enact with collective bargaining. “It’s very difficult to manage a governmental budget or any kind of a budget when you have the kind of restrictions that have been imposed by some of these union contracts.”

Let’s fill out the picture with some facts. Nearly 40 percent of government workers are unionized, compared with 7 percent in the private-sector work force. The average state and local government employee now makes 46 percent more in combined salary and benefits than his private sector counterpart does, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute. Four of five public-sector workers have lifetime pensions. State and local governments owe more than $1.5 trillion in unfunded health-care and non-pension benefits, according to one estimate by Credit Suisse. This isn’t going to end pretty.

The city of Vallejo, California, went bankrupt in 2008 because it was spending 74 percent of its $80 million budget on public-sector salaries and benefits. After five years, all workers were entitled to lifetime health benefits.”


Avlon continues


So despite reactions from the left that make it seem as if Walker is trying to kill Christmas, it is entirely reasonable to debate public-sector union collective bargaining—especially when we’re looking at looming budget deficits. In fact, liberal icons like FDR and Fiorello La Guardia were deeply opposed to collective bargaining for public-sector unions. “The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service,” Roosevelt wrote.

Collective bargaining for public-sector unions began in the late 1950s and exists for all government workers in only 26 states. It is not sacrosanct or even particularly longstanding. Indiana’s Gov. Mitch Daniels suspended collective bargaining on his first day on the job, six years ago, by executive order. The state of Indiana has not imploded.

In the spirit of “follow the money,” there’s an additional issue: public-sector union check-offs, which automatically deduct a portion of unionized government workers’ salaries and direct them to union coffers. In the case of the two national teachers’ unions, the National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers, the check-offs amount to $2 billion a year, a portly portion of which goes to campaigns and ballot initiatives. This is taxpayer money being automatically redirected to partisan politics to advance special-interest aims. I would much rather have that money remain in the workers’ wallets or given back to the taxpayers to curtail other cuts in a time of multibillion-dollar budget gaps.

All-or-nothing negotiation techniques rarely bring out the best in a democracy, and reasonable people can conclude that Gov. Walker is overreaching. But to behave as though public-sector union costs, which are directly related to collective bargaining, do not have a deep impact on state and local budgets is not to deal with reality. Public-sector unions are politically powerful, but the benefits they have secured for their members simply cannot be sustained. Civic debates are derailed when special interests resort to fear-mongering. Math does not have a partisan bias. We are going broke, and doing nothing is not an option. Start from that premise, and then let’s reason together.

Michael Barone sums it up: “Public-employee unions are a mechanism by which every taxpayer is forced to fund the Democratic Party.”

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at March 2, 2011 11:54 PM
Comment #319489

C&J-
The Guy’s a self-professed centrist, an advocate for third way politics.

I once saw the point in what he wanted. I don’t any longer. Too often now, such Centrism is reflexive, rather than the product of balancing the merits of different plans independently of politics. Yes, the unions cost the states some money.

But what really cost people money was Wall Street’s true source of uncertainty: it’s heavily UNregulated derivatives market.

I was once willing to let Wall Street roam a little more freely on the financial landscape, but experience has since quenched the enthusiasm for that idea. To remain centrist on that idea, to me, is to ignore what happened, and I’m not incined to do that.

Merits mean more to true moderates than any kind of geometric positioning.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 3, 2011 12:17 AM
Comment #319490

“Are you blind?”

Kevin I am merely pointing out the very same excuses made on behalf of the tea party protesters when they were demonstrating and committing acts of violence. Can you prove these tweets were not sent by the Koch bros/Tea Party thugs?

“Michael Barone sums it up: “Public-employee unions are a mechanism by which every taxpayer is forced to fund the Democratic Party.””

Which of course is nonsense. The taxpayers pay taxes to pay for the cost of a civilized society. The teachers and municipal provide services. They are paid for these services, These same teachers fund the union they belong to as well as pay the same taxes you refer to. What these people choose to do with their money is no body’s business. Especially the authoritarian”taxpayers” that think it is their money even after the services have been rendered and the money earned by the teachers and municipal workers.

These people are authoritarian Kevin, who else wants one party rule, which is what this is all about. That sure doesn’t favor any rights, natural or civil IMHO.

The budget bill is not about fixing the budget, it is about getting rid of the unions, how much clearer does it have to be. Walker made that clear when he was talking to “Koch”.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2011 12:57 AM
Comment #319491

RF

you make a good point. in the aftermath of the shooting in tucson the left, and msm were pontificating about the need for civility in public discourse. what happened to leading by example? instead we hear ie ” you did it why shouldn’t we ?”, “or don’t dish it out if you can’t take it”. i think we can take, but just feel the need to point out the hypocracy on the left. funny how heated rhetoric is dangerous when employed by the right, but merely an exercise of free speech when employed by the left.

Posted by: dbs at March 3, 2011 5:53 AM
Comment #319493

dbs-
I’ll tell you how we’re different from your side. Yes, some of our members lose their tempers. But the culture doesn’t encourage it. It encourages peaceful, moderate behavior. You do know, don’t you, that most Republicans identify as conservative rather than moderate, while most Democrats self-identify as moderates, rather than liberals.

We want to be part of the mainstream. We don’t want to be seen as radicals, or thugs, or whatever. And that’s why Republicans call us those things, because we actually worry about how things look beyond the party. We actually care about reaching out to the average American who identifies with no party in particular, and not merely when it’s time for an election.

Hintz has already apologized for what he said, C&J, and so did that other fellow who talked about Union members getting bloody. We know our credibility depends on being seen as moderate, so we take pains not to seem otherwise.

Hintz was wrong. I’ve said that every time such things are brought up, when the facts square with the accusation. And I’ll continue to say it.

The Republican line nowaddays, seems to be this unfortunate notion that if things don’t go your way, you allege that things are not legitimate. Obama’s election wasn’t close to being disputed, yet Republicans accused him of having ACORN rig the election on his behalf. He is clearly an American Citizen, but folks on the right, including Huckabee above, insist with portraying him as an outsider, a foreigner, a Manchurian Candidate. This isn’t like with Bush, with a close election and a vote-counting process that was interfered with heavily. Obama won that last election walking away.

There has been a consistent effort from the right to deny and disparage any Court decisions, any election results, any success in passing legislation they don’t like. I mean, Newt Gingrich said it might be an impeachable offense for Obama to say that his Justice Department would no longer defend DOMA in court (though it will enforce it). I mean, that wold be laughable, if it weren’t such a drastic action over such a petty matter.

Disagreements seem to be on the course to being inflated into causes for civil war, the way things are going. More and more, the Republicans are taking the attitude that only governments headed by folks like themselves should be legitimate in the eyes of the law. They are using the mechanisms of government, in vote-caging cases, and in their attempts at union busting, to break constituencies of the other side. The Republicans are taking a radical direction with their agenda, and just when I think they can restrain themselves long enough to head back into the mainstream, they double down on the craziness.

I mean, what responsible, sane political movement has Glenn Beck as a leading figure? You want to talk about civility, maybe you should research some of what he’s said about killing Democratic legislators. Maybe you should listen to him spinning conspiracy theories about how the left is out to get the right, and not just politically. The Republican Party is literally embracing the fringe that it’s forebears of the 1950s and 60’s rejected.

There can only be three results, broadly speaking, of that: 1) The Party has a moment of clarity, and pulls back to moderation, 2) The Party gets everybody to agree with its insanity, and leads it on yet another decade or so of policy based on that insanity, with corresponding results, and 3) The Party scares away anybody who isn’t a hardcore supporter, and becomes a fringe political movement.

The Republicans need to quit thinking they’re special, above being moderated or held in check. If you won’t let yourself admit that you’ve lost any battles or lost any support, how do you keep yourself off the path that ultimately leads to defeat?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 3, 2011 7:51 AM
Comment #319496

Someday, one of these comment threads will not devolve into a pathetic penis-size contest in which both the far left and far right self-righteously (and delusionally) pretend that their party isn’t guilty of the exact same misbehavior, character flaws, personal failures and lack of ethics that they accuse all members of the other party of exemplifying.

Probably won’t happen in my lifetime. But it’s nice to dream.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at March 3, 2011 9:38 AM
Comment #319497

Well said Gary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: KAP at March 3, 2011 9:40 AM
Comment #319499

j2t2 writes:“Can you prove these tweets were not sent by the Koch bros/Tea Party thugs?”

I knew, before I even wrote that sentence that someone would invoke the behind-the-scenes-secret-anti-union-anti-democrats-conspiracy-theory mantra where clandestine Koch Bros. plants would infiltrate social media and gin-up the hype.

Of course I cannot prove it. Do you really think, with the level of anger and other intimidation tactics used by many of the protesters that have transpired over the last two weeks, that these threats are not true? Yes, it may be what is deemed an unfalsifiable hypothesis, however, that does not mean it is not true.

It’s actually quite embarrassing if I would say so myself. Even the Tea Party protesters over the last 18 months or so have behaved in a more civil manner, IMHO.

There’s enough YouTube video showing these protesters’ behavior to last a lifetime - and unedited I might add!

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at March 3, 2011 11:48 AM
Comment #319502

Gary,
Each party is necessarily equally guilty of misbehavior and character flaws?? Is this a natural law? Was the 1930s pacifist movement as equally guilty of misbehavior as the Nazis?

Re Huchabee; I don’t for a second think Huckabee intentionally mis-spoke. But this does show he is immersed in right wing propoganda and as we see time and again, the disinformation becomes reality to you if that is what you are exposed to.

Posted by: Schwamp at March 3, 2011 1:21 PM
Comment #319505

Kevin, Many union members are conservatives according to many on the right. To think they could not be up to some dirty tricks is a bit of denial isn’t it?

The level of anger an intimidation tactics has been relatively miniscule when compared to the tea party disruptions at town hall meetings and at tea party marches leading up to the election. To think some of Walkers followers could not be behind it leads me to believe that some on the right, those that defended the tea party protest anger and tactics with accusations of left wing involvement, cannot believe it when they do this type of thing.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2011 3:56 PM
Comment #319513

Stephen

If this guy is a centrist, what are the people on the left like?

You demonized the tea party with almost no real incidents of hate or violence.

Now we have REAL incidents of hate and violence on the left. So hold yourselves to the same standard you demanded and stop the racism and violence.

j2t2

The townhall meetings were set up as a PR device for some of our politicians. The tea party people represented actual people and so kind of ruined the show by asking real questions. I do not recall any of them shouting at the politicians “you are f—ing dead.”

Schwamp

I agree that the protests in Wisconsin have been worse than the tea party, but most of them have been well within the law. They certainly are nowhere near a Nazi comparison.

Posted by: C&J at March 3, 2011 6:00 PM
Comment #319519

“The tea party people represented actual people and so kind of ruined the show by asking real questions.”

It wasn’t the “real” questions C&J, but that is a good one tea baggers and real questions, as if.It was the anger and shouting at a public meeting that was over the top. It was the intentional disruption and dishonest tactics that we remember. In case you forgot, and judging from the rosy response you have forgotten, here is a reminder of the Tea Party plan.

“… written by Connecticut right-wing activist Bob MacGuffie based on his experience taking part in such an organized disruption of a Jim Himes town hall meeting in Fairfield back in late May. The memo includes such advice as:

- Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”

- Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”

- Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”“

http://www.myleftnutmeg.com/diary/11635/leaked-dump-dodd-town-hall-strategy-memo-disrupt-avoid-intelligent-debate

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2011 6:24 PM
Comment #319523

J2t2

Sort of based on the Saul Alinsky rules. I suppose some people will always do that. The sources is … nobody important. Is he even a leader of a tea party movement? You or I could make stationary and write that.

As I mentioned, I attended several tea party events. I was surprised how peaceful they were. I am kind of a protest fan. I attended many when I was a student in Madison and I like to watch them. The tea parties were better behaved than almost any others I have seen. They also featured an older crowd.

The left wing media followed the tea parties with great attention. If they had seen much in the way of violence, it would have appeared on television. We have seen many instances of hate speech etc at the union protests. I understand that it is not MOST of the participants, but clearly there is a greater percentage of bad actors among the union demonstrations than among the tea party.

Posted by: C&J at March 3, 2011 6:35 PM
Comment #319531

Speaking of Saul Alinsky, Michelle Malkin, who for years has followed various union politics and antics, has done some interesting reporting on how the National Education Association had published in their national news magazine mailer a how-to on Saul Alinsky tactics.

I just read this month’s NEA magazine (as my spouse is a teacher). It is fairly biased towards the left, of course. I used to receive a monthy UAW Solidarity magazine way back when I was a member. I believed a lot of the propoganda they espoused and wrote about when I was in my early 20s.

Now, after a lot of real-world experiences, college, marriage and such, I see an entirely different POV.

I try not to ‘pick sides,’ but to see what’s right, what’s fair and what’s practical.

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at March 3, 2011 7:02 PM
Comment #319548

“Is he even a leader of a tea party movement?”
According to the Tea Party they are all leaders, C&J.

“We have seen many instances of hate speech etc at the union protests. I understand that it is not MOST of the participants, but clearly there is a greater percentage of bad actors among the union demonstrations than among the tea party.”

C&J the facts don’t help your case, my friend. 70k at a rally, day after day and no problems, many thousands staying overnight in the capital for 2 weeks, no problems. Every town hall held by a dem was disrupted by many angry and vicious tea baggers spewing hate and lies with one intention, to be disruptive early and often.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2011 9:49 PM
Comment #319573


NBC/WSJ poll— Amoung people identifying themselves as tea party members. Choice for presidential candidate.

Huckabee 27%

Romney 19%

Palin 17%

Posted by: jlw at March 4, 2011 5:11 AM
Comment #319574


Adrienne, I’ve borrowed from your source.

“On a personal note, I’m a member of a union. AFTRA, and when I was working at ‘Inside Edition’ some years ago, the King World company tried to renege on pension benefits,” “AFTRA took them to court and the case was settled. If the shop had been non-union, we might have been shafted….Bill O’Reily.

Might Bill? If the shop had been non-union you might not have had pension benefits.

I have worked many jobs, had many employers, non-union and union, but I never worked for a non-union employer that had a pension plan for anyone but the owner. I’m sure there are Quite a few. non-union employers that offer a pension plan, but I never worked for one of them.

If I recall correctly, the primary non-union retirement plan is a gold watch. Perhaps a gold plated watch or a simulated gold watch these days.

Posted by: jlw at March 4, 2011 5:49 AM
Comment #319578

j2t2

I have seen the demonstrates in Madison spewing plenty of hate. In fact, I bet if we took TV footage from Madison and called it a tea party, you guys would be all over it.

I attended a tea party rally in Washington, which had tens of thousands of people. It was the most peaceful and calm large demonstration I have ever seen.

When you talk about confrontations with politicians, I saw them too. The politicians were trying to avoid the issue. It was not hate they got, but frustration. The only violence I recall at a tea party related event was when union thugs beat up that black tea party activist in a wheel chair.

Adrienne

O’Reilly says almost every day that he is a union member. He says he has always liked unions. It doesn’t mean he has to believe in everything they do. My cousins live in Wisconsin. I have lots of them there. Most are union members. Most do not support what they unions are doing. Unfortunately, the union leadership does not represent its membership very well.

I was a member of the Longshoreman’s union during four years. I liked some of what they did, but not other things.

In America we still believe in freedom. It doesn’t mean any individual has to support everything the leadership of their group says. Those sorts of follower ideas belong to communist/fascist systems.

Posted by: C&J at March 4, 2011 8:41 AM
Comment #319584

C&J-
Almost No real incidents of hatred or violence? Good grief. You got Rush Limbaugh talking about Obama as a Halfrican American, and liberals as cockroaches. The head stomping, the whole Death Panel thing, the recent “live ammunition” remark, Several of your people talking about “second Amendment remedies, Governor Perry talking about seceding the nation, Birtherism, Watermelon patches in front of the White House, Obama-bucks with fried chicken on it, the deceptively and heavily edited Planned Parenthood Video, the deceptively and heavily edited Shirley Sherrod video, the Deceptively and heavily edited ACORN video… I mean, ****, I only had to use google to look up Shirley Sherrod’s name, in order to compose that list.

The Problem for liberals in answering your question about hatred against them by the tea party is not that they can’t come with anything, it’s that the hatefulness is all a blur. I mean, I could argue that nowadays the only think consistent about right-wing politics is opposing anything the Democrats or Liberals agree with, even if Democrats are taking up the Republican’s policy on the matter.

You try to impugn the methods of the Liberal demonstrators, but I read something elsewhere of your people happily using Alinsky’s tactics, however eager you were to trash him in public. Republicans are not interested in letting Obama have any advantage all to himself.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 4, 2011 10:46 AM
Comment #319633

Stephen

And the liberals comparing the mild mannered governor of Wisconsin to Hitler and Stalin? You read Kos. Why don’t you just go through some of those thing and change the names. See if you are insulted. You know that we have been able to do that many times with your own writings. The test of fairness is substitution or turn-around.

Acorn was doing wrong. Sorry that they got caught on several occasions encouraging child prostitution. The Shirley Sherrod case was one where the Obama administration jumped to conclusions. Bad management on their part.

Re Alinsky - There are some conservatives that are using some of his tactics. I know this bothers the left, who think that dirty tricks are only theirs. I don’t condone it on either side, but liberals are master of this.

But let’s return to the turn around. Take a look at recent statements and signs in Wisconsin. Imagine all that sound and fury was a tea party. Are you outraged?

Posted by: C&J at March 4, 2011 7:04 PM
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