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Well it seem the Obama administration is doing something to save jobs in this country. Why would we want to allow truck and drivers from other countries to come into this country? Do we have a shortage of trucks and trailers in this country? Do we have a shortage of drivers? Are our trucking companies not competing in the marketplace, or have they established a monopoly?

Do these Mexican trucking companies pay the state and federal taxes both here and in Mexico?

j2t2

Our truckers can make their deliveries in Mexico. It is part of the agreement. If you read the top linked story, you will see that legal Mexican retaliation will cost more American jobs.

I just have trouble understanding how the Obama folks can claim to be so outraged when the State of Arizona wants to control illegal aliens when the Obama folks keep out legal Mexican commerce. In fact they break our own agreements to do it.

I guess you have to be doing something illegal to get the support of the Obama folks.

Hmm, I don’t know what the facts are. The “study” cited by AEI is actually an opinion piece in the Dallas Morning News. Where are the facts. I see facts “asserted”, but none actually quoted.

I know locally several Mexican Bus lines were found to have unlicensed drivers, and buses in ill repair, one that killed several people in a wreck near Dallas.

Gergle

Yes, we sure can’t trust them. Nor can we trust our officials to enforce our laws.

You know that if you said exactly the same thing and you were a Republican you would call it racist. You are advocating keeping legal Mexicans out of our country on the basis that they cannot be trusted to follow the laws even when our own people are inspecting.

We can count on the Obama folks to protect us from legal foreign commerce. And we can feel confident that the Obama folks will attack anybody who might want to enforce actual immigration laws.

C&J quick take a deep breath and think. AEI is not known for its honest and fair positions on these matters. We are in a jobless recovery why would we want to allow these trucking companies to operate here what is the upside? DO you really still believe the nonsense about “this will create more jobs”? Stop and answer some questions with facts, there are none so far, Gergle is right.

j2t2

Actually, AEI is indeed known for its good analysis.

I believe that trade creates value. Value creates wealth and wealth creates jobs. The idea that you can beggar your neighbor and cheat your friends is the wrong way to look at it.

Re “letting” them operate, maybe look up the word reciprocity.

You have to consider that the Mexicans will/are retaliating according to the law. This is costing American jobs. There is nothing Obama can do legally to stop them from attacking American agriculture.

Xenophobia and & isolation just don’t work to create jobs. Even Obama understands that. Everybody knows that he and the Democrats in congress are not trying to protect jobs in general. They are merely trying to protect the power of their own supporters at the expense of the jobs of a greater number of Americans.

If isolation & xenophobia worked, North Korea would be the most prosperous place in the world.

And how can you guys criticize the Arizona law, which is aimed at keeping out illegal aliens, when you are okay with keeping out Mexicans with legal business in our country?

Are you just anti-legal Mexican? How about this? Maybe they can sneak across the border. Then they would be illegal aliens. Then liberals could call them victims and be on their side.

C&J,

Yes, we sure can’t trust them. Nor can we trust our officials to enforce our laws…You know that if you said exactly the same thing and you were a Republican you would call it racist

Umm, except I didn’t say that. You did.

Sounds to me like a first step toward revoking NAFTA. Amen to that, brother. Amen, indeed. That superhighway from S. America to Canada through the U.S., smuggling all manner of illegality across our country, has to be ended. I applaud Obama for this small step forward. We have no control of illegal immigrant smuggling, drug and weapons trafficking, money laundering, and the smuggling of terrorists and enemies into our country, AS LONG AS foreign truckers are given thoroughfare across our country.

Sorry, C&J, but I just can’t agree with your arguments on this one. It is about enforcing our laws. Not the opposite which you postulate in your article. Sorry you couldn’t see that. But, then Obama is complex, unlike our last president. He often does his job without inordinate bragging of its merit, as is the case here. Kinda leaves Republicans drawing their own wrong conclusions.

David

Arizona wants to enforce immigration law. Obama just wants to protect his base.

Obama. How well is he doing lately? I think the American people are kinda drawing their own conclusions.

IMO, Obama is so complex that even he doesn’t know what he thinks.

Arizona doesn’t have the Constitutional authority to usurp federal jurisdiction in the matter of border security and immigration enforcement. That is Obama’s position on the Arizona law. And if tested, will be upheld. The Constitution is very clear about this matter of federal enforcement jurisdiction supremacy over the State’s authority. It was an issue settled by the Civil War amongst other S.C. rulings.

I don’t agree with Obama’s actions regarding the Az. law, but, his legal rationale and justification is sound.

Your are falling for snap shot in time polling, C&J, and you should know better by now. Obama’s ratings at this time is equal to that of Reagan, Clinton, and Carter at this time of their first term, 41%. It is meaningless more than 2 years out from Obama’s reelection bid, if he chooses to run.

DRR:

“Your are falling for snap shot in time polling, C&J, and you should know better by now. Obama’s ratings at this time is equal to that of Reagan, Clinton, and Carter at this time of their first term, 41%. It is meaningless more than 2 years out from Obama’s reelection bid, if he chooses to run.”

Reagan and Clinton’s poll numbers climbed as the economy got better, but Carter’s numbers continued to fall as the economy got worse. The only way Obama’s polls will get better is if the economy gets better. And as of today, the unemployment figures are up to 500,000 ending Aug. 14. This is the highest numbers since Nov. 2009. The CBO numbers will be out today giving their projection for the next year. Add to that the fact that nothing Obama and the dems have done has improved the economy and the American people know this. The stimulus was nothing more than a slush fund to pay off obama’s supporters, i.e. unions. In this day of instant information and lack of dependence on the MSM, the American people KNOW exactly what is going on, in real time.

Here we go on supremacy of the nationalist government again. Three of many are 2nd amendment, fed hiways, banks.
All three are controled actions by the nationalist government. The states have been involved in all three areas for decades. The Constitution also gives the federal government not the nationalist government the authority on these subjects. So why is the “supremacy clause” so high and mighty on one subject but not the others? Obama and Holder can’t even file the suit correctly and they are lawyers. One even claiming constitutional wisdom enough to be a lecturer on the subject at an institution of high learning.

When a bank robbery occurs the first responders are local law enforcement. But that is a WDC issue why are local law enforcement personnel getting involved?

Why are local jurisdictions allowed to control the speed on Interstate hiways? That is a WDC issue.

Arizona law does nothing to go above the Constitution. It enhances the enforcement of existing law. It does not do anything different from WDC enforcement(lack of enforcement in this case) should be.

OBAMA CRACKS DOWN OF MEXICAN TRUCKING COMPANIES, MEXICO RETALIATES WITH TARIFFS.

Is this the national headline that Republicans are looking forward to.

Do the Republicans really believe that the people are making some great distinction between legal and illegal Mexicans. Don’t they consider Mexican truckers part of the grand conspiracy by wealth against the middle class.

Mexican tariffs on American goods will only encourage more anti-migrant sentiment.

Any tariffs levied would be a pittance compared to what the people and taxpayers are sending to Mexico. Our consumers and taxpayers are supporting both the drug lords and the Mexican response to them, just as they are doing in this country and other countries.

Baretta9, I you knew your economic history, you would know that the recessions are not exited quickly or easily. The more widely dispersed the recession is throughout the economic infrastructure, the slower and more difficult it is to recover. Two facts are relevant here. Republican leadership with Democratic support got us into this recession. Republicans experienced 3 recessions during their 8 years in power in the last decade. And Republicans deficit spending of more than 5 trillion dollars didn’t put our economy on a sound footing going forward.

The vast majority of American workers still have their jobs, and a reasonable amount of job security thanks to Republicans TARP bail out of the Banks, and the Obama bailout of the auto-manufacturers and very anemic and less than needed Stimulus program. The world’s economy is strengthening and that has upsides and downsides for our own economy, but, in the short term, mostly up - as in preventing stagflation from setting in.

I am always amazed by the hypocrisy of the Right yelling at the roof tops that presidents and Congress shouldn’t be meddling with the economy, while at the same time, blaming presidents and Congress for NOT intervening enough to save the economy during a recession. Yours is a political perspective, not an economic one.

The fact is, the Bush and Obama government have not intervened enough with massive enough stimulus targeted appropriately to secure the current economy and strengthen its infrastructure for the future, all of which was accomplished by the massive government intervention and deficit spending during WWII which brought on the greatest economic expansion the world has seen in centuries. That is an economic perspective taken straight from the facts and data of history.

Why do republicans disparage middle class working union people? I just don’t get it. If the republicans are so concerned about illegal immigrants why did they not do something about under bush?

Jeff;

Your playing games. No one is disparaging the union employees. But the leaders of the unions are another story. Sorry, but I was an active member of the IAM for 36 years, and I still have an inactive membership. So I am familiar wit the workings of the unions. The leadership is corrupt and not all of the rank and file supports the propaganda of the leadership.

Illegal immigrants were of concern under Bush, but conservative dismay, Bush would not deal with he problem. Enter the Tea Party, forcing politicians to listen to us. Why, even some dems are worried about the illegal situation. Even Harry Reid was against anchor babies, before he was for them. But at least we know where he stands on the Mosque, well, at least for now we know. When he gets enough heat from the Muslims in NV, he will change his mind.

First I wish we could send them all back home I believe it would stop the downward pressure on wages. But the AZ. law is being used as a wedge issue,second this is not the 1930’s I don’t think they are anymore corrupt then the general population.

Jeff

Did I even mention unions?

I think that following our agreements and avoiding retaliatory tariffs is good for workers.

Most Republican and Democrat politicians both despicably choose to pit American citizens and illegal aliens against each other for profits from cheap labor and votes.

When will the next shamnesty BILL be passed (like the one in 1986 which quintupled the problem)?

Yet, the majority of voters complain about the numerous problems, crime, and net losses, give Congress dismal 11% approval ratings, but then continue to reward Congress with 90% re-election rates.

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, at least, possibly, until repeatedly rewarding failure, repeatedly rewarding the duopoly, and repeatedly rewarding FOR-SALE, incompetent, arrogant, and corrupt incumbent politicians in Do-Nothing Congress with 85%-to-90% re-election rates finally becomes too painful.

“I believe that trade creates value. Value creates wealth and wealth creates jobs. The idea that you can beggar your neighbor and cheat your friends is the wrong way to look at it.”

So what are we trading C&J? DO you think the Mexican trucking companies will increase the value of trucks in this country? Speaking of beggaring and cheating your friends it seems you have forgotten your friends in this country. There is a shortage of truck driving jobs not truck drivers. There is no shortage of trucks. What value do we gain other than driving wages down for truckers?

You remind me of an old neighbor of mine who also believed that trade creates value. So I offered to trade him my old bicycle for his new car. That didn’t sound like a good value to him. Well not for a while anyway. But then he lost his job to someone overseas ( so I need to ask on this issue jobs for who) and couldn’t afford the payments after a bit. His was one of many jobs traded away in the area at the time so he lost the car. He didn’t see the value in that trade either. He felt beggared and cheated by the same values he once believed in. But he learned not to fall for that tired old line about “trade creates value. Value creates wealth and wealth creates jobs.” and “Xenophobia and & isolation just don’t work to create jobs” He learned to ride a bicycle to BTW.

“And how can you guys criticize the Arizona law, which is aimed at keeping out illegal aliens, when you are okay with keeping out Mexicans with legal business in our country?”

I haven’t criticized that law C&J. But let me ask you this, If some one immigrating to this country needs a green card to work legally why is a trade agreement making the same person who decided they don’t intend to immigrate legal to work in this country.

“This is costing American jobs. There is nothing Obama can do legally to stop them from attacking American agriculture.”

Good let them attack American agriculture, just think of how many illegals will be out of work and heading back to Mexico. Kinda foolish on their part if you ask me.

“Are you just anti-legal Mexican?”

No I am just anti- legal Mexican working in this country and living in another country while taking jobs away from legal Mexicans and Americans living in this country.

” How about this? Maybe they can sneak across the border. Then they would be illegal aliens. Then liberals could call them victims and be on their side.”

What about the truck and the trucking company?

Baretta9 and Royal Flush

I think we have too many Mosqueteers on this blog site.

j2t2

When two people trade something voluntarily, they both get more of what they want. Otherwise they don’t trade … voluntarily. Trade is the basis of almost all our current wealth. Try being self sufficient for even a day.

I am a little surprised by the xenophobia expressed by my liberal colleagues. But then I have noticed that liberals are “tolerant” when they are trying to attack conservatives.

The problem for trade has always been that the beneficiaries tend to be unaware of that trade has helped them, while anybody who suffers is acutely aware and often politically organized.

I assume you must be joking when you say that reducing American agricultural productivity and sales will be somehow good for America.

The trucking agreement is reciprocal. American drivers can also go south. The alternative would be to unload and reload trucks at the border. I suppose this would create jobs in the benighted way they used to make work by having one guy dig a hole and another fill it in, but that is not wealth creating.

AH yes C&J thanks for not answering one question and instead giving the lecture for Trade 101. You seem to imply that my neighbor is an isolationist because he did not want to trade his new car for my old bicycle. Maybe he just didn’t want to trade something of value for something worth a lot less, sorta like your trade deal with the Mexicans. Yeah we can trade driving jobs for unemployment and avoid the risk of being called a name.

No actually I am not kidding, who do you think picks most of the crops the Mexicans are boycotting? Illegal Mexicans are amongst this group, believe it or not. So let them go home without picking the crops and sending the money back to Mexico. We can sell the agriculture crops to other countries so productivity and sales will not be a real issue. You should recall that the increased productivity agriculture comes at a price to the land so perhaps a drop in demand if that were to be the case would not be such a bad thing.

I think it is time for conservatives to grow some cajones and tell Corporate America that not all trades are good trades. Take them to trade 101 lecture and tell them “When two people trade something voluntarily, they both get more of what they want. Otherwise they don’t trade … voluntarily. Trade is the basis of almost all our current wealth.” Because I think you will find that this is not voluntary and one side is getting the short end of the stick, that would be the American worker. Remember “first they came for….”

ON reciprocity, do you wonder why the big trucking companies are not organizing to boycott Mexican produce in order to get their trucks on the Mexicans streets?

I have come to the realization that you are willing to make any trade even a bad trade of labor disguised as products because you do not want to be an isolationist. Well if you think outside the conservative box perhaps you can see that you don’t need to make each and every trade that comes your way and still not be an isolationist. That is how wealth is created.

Jeff:

Since 22 other states are in the process of passing illegal alien laws similar to AZ, I would say it is not the law that is driving the wedge. It is a president and his justice department that are driving the wedge.

j2t2

Your premise is silly. If people don’t think that they come out better after the trade than before, they won’t trade. If you force the person to give you something, it is robbery (or government intervention) but it is not free trade.

Obviously, somebody wants to trade something with our Mexican neighbors. Government is preventing this, in spite of agreements to the contrary. If people don’t want to trade, no trade will take place. It is actually a tautology.

re selling to other countries, would that it was so easy to switch markets. Again, you have to assume that there is a reason why people want to make trades.

I have noticed this about liberals too. They always assume ordinary people are stupid and need to be controlled. Those guys selling products to Mexico evidently think that is where they get the best deal. You think otherwise because you know their business better than they do.

There is no reason to believe the American worker is “getting the short end of the stick” except those American workers who would be selling the products to Mexico that now will be subject to tariff.

How about you? When you go to the store and you find a product that you don’t want, do you buy it? If someone offers you a bad deal, do you take it? Do you offer to pay more for a product than the seller wants? On the other side, have you often been able to get others to do these things?

You are right that I do believe in open trade. It is indeed the basis of almost all wealth. I believe that we need to have health and safety regulations, but we should not misuse these just to keep other products out.

I think we have to push for an insist on free trade. “Fair trade” sounds good, but is used as an excuse to limit freedom. Any trade that two parties make voluntarily and with decent information is a fair trade, unless we assume that one of the parties is just so stupid that he doesn’t know what is going on. I don;t believe most people are in that category.

Jeez C&J you talk throughout this post with such things as “If people don’t think that they come out better after the trade than before, they won’t trade” or “I don;t believe most people are in that category.” and “When two people trade something voluntarily, they both get more of what they want.” and so on. Yet the fact is this trade agreement is between 2 governments not 2 people. The fact is this is nothing but taking jobs away from the American public yet you sugar coat it as if the guy that will lose his job because of the Mexican trucks has a choice. This is not “open trade” this is in fact not even trade. This is the very same government you consistently criticize as being unable to make these types of decisions trading with another government in general terms. Yet in this case the same government bought and paid for by Corporate America is perfectly capable of deciding we need more trucks from other countries on the road in this country.

You have not been able to answer any questions about this arrangement yet accept at face value that it is best for this Country. Why after all the roof to the contrary should we believe this is best for the American people. this loss of sovereignty? This Organization that makes decisions that overrides the constitution of this country. So far you have presented fluff that I find hard that even a conservative would believe yet you continue to espouse this mantra of free oh excuse me open trade blindly. But I am silly. Right.

j2t2

The agreement between the two government simply allows - does not compel - people to trade if they think it is a good deal.

You are thinking in the old fashioned mercantilism way. Your paradigm is zero sum - you win only if I lose and the reverse. History show that this is not how things work.

Above I have a post re railroads and there are already complaints that if RR come in truckers will lose jobs. That may happen. But if it does it is because of the greater efficiency of RR, which will improve the environment and the economy.

If you want to “create” lots of jobs, just outlaw farm machinery. All the unemployed and most of the rest of us would then have to work on farms, but we would ALL be poor.

The only way you can make people better off is to create wealth. Just moving it around doesn’t do the job and doing things that actually cost more than they produce doesn’t either.

I think I have responded to your question, although not in a way you like. We disagree about this.

I also won’t get into your straw man argument about trading blindly.

“The agreement between the two government simply allows - does not compel - people to trade if they think it is a good deal.”

Then why tariffs from the government of Mexico. Are they protecting their “people”? BTW when you say people you really mean corporations right?

Losing jobs because trains are transporting, more which they have been doing for some time, more like trading jobs internally, unless of course some Mexican company wants to run on American tracks, as there will be added jobs at the railroads. Trucks will still be used to transport locally much like they do know. You can’t get a train to pull up behind the local Wal-Mart to unload.

Things haven’t become more efficient, nor is “wealth being created” as you say it is just the lack of decent laws in Mexico allow for the people to work cheaper and live cheaper while earning their income in this country. That is not efficiency that is exploitation.

This is not trade C&J this is simply adding additional labor under the guise of “free trade” . This does nothing but create wealth for the corporations in another Country not ours. No wonder you hide from the “trade blindly” discussion with accusations of mercantilism much like the earlier accusations of xenophobia and isolationism it is without merit.

It seem’s to me that corporations move their manufacturing to wherever the total cost to get their product to market is lowest. American corporations move their manufacturing to places like Mexico to save on production costs, and then pay increased shipping costs in order to sell their goods to us, here in the US. Allowing Mexican trucking companies to operate here in the US lowers those costs, which in turn will drive more manufacturing south. So as I see it, this program is removing an obstacle that prevents more of our manufacturing jobs from crossing the border.

The strength of an economy is manufacturing. Service based economies are not “real” and are subject to manipulation and “bubbles”, but manufacturing economies are based on products with “real” values. The US became the most powerful nation in the history of the world by selling our goods to the rest of the world. We are now a consumer nation, sending our money all over the world for the trinkets that they produce. Free trade has created a massive trade imbalance, which trades away American wealth. Those trucks will cross our borders with goods to sell to us, and fill them with our money for the return trip.