Republicans & Conservatives Archives

The reason I am an atheist, is that all gods are fantastical beliefs in themselves.

It’s fairly hard to draw a line between what is reasonable and what is extreme when you’re dealing with a made up deity to begin with.

I don’t think people who believe in a god are necessarily nutty. When I was a child, I said goodbye to the house I was raised in, when we moved. I felt that the trees and shrubs had feelings and were sentient. I loved sitting under the Apple tree’s sheltering branches. I loved my favorite climbing Maple. I felt the same way about my teddy bear and even my bike. In some fashion, I still do.

As I grew up, I understood those feelings as the way I related to the world. Some people never really analyze those feelings. I’m OK with that. I just think a lot of people don’t ever really get beyond that kind of thinking.

Gergle

I think people can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t bother others with it.

Personally, I figure that understanding the real nature of God is just beyond my abilities, but I have so much confidence in him that I know he doesn’t need my help as outlined above.

Beyond that, although I am not sure about the nature of God, I am pretty sure that people like Mohammad Atta are in hell, since they not only kill lots of people but also insult God by claiming to do it in His name.

I had a little fun with the cemetery weirdos. You wouldn’t believe how enraged they became. I consider it my duty to ridicule such people.

C&J:

In a weird twisted way they fanatics you mentioned might be doing God’s work. They have motivated some of our country’s finest human beings to form Patriot Guard Riders. I have worked with them and they are incredible.

This video looks closer to the Lord’s work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G10T_Ih222E

People say we are created in his image. I take them literally.

Scientists have been able to see to incredibly minute levels and can identify mass and energy to infinity. Our universe is expanding and we cannot see the edge.

I have come to the conclusion that we are an embryo and we are waiting for the second coming, fertilization. Then the division of cells ie. colonizing new worlds as we grow.

Billions of our years from now we will burst forth from the womb of our God and grow into a God of our own.

I believe this will come to pass because my God doesn’t believe in abortion.

Craig

The ones I saw I think were affiliated with the Fred Phelps group. I am glad if they motivated others to do the right thing, but I still don’t like them and think it is right to ridicule them.

IMO - we could easily solve this problem if the cops would just pull back out of sight for a half hour after the start of one of the “protests.” I don’t pretend that we would be doing god’s work, but it would be fun.

BTW - I had a good time talking to some of the Rolling Thunder guys on Memorial Day. Some of them had on jackets with a flag on the back and the provocative slogan, “try burning this one.”

I’ve begun worshipping the Sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the Sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.
— George Carlin, Brain Droppings

Thank you George Carlin.

It is much more comfortable for some to deny the existence of God as that frees them from the responsibility that eminates from a true belief. And others find comfort in a belief that no higher power exists above themselves and thus no consequences beyond that of man to face. I have found that my atheist acquaintences are similar to teenagers leaving home for the first time. The new found freedom from parental guidance and rules is exhilarating for them. And many determine to leave all the life lessons and wisdom imparted by parents behind and strike a new path.

Rebellion against our parents is not unsimilar to denying the existance of God. And, as with good parents, the child is still loved and cherished. The door remains open to those who would return.

Without getting into who should believe what, and why……I can say that I agree 100% that anyone who kills in the name of God is not doing the work of any God.

The war in Iraq was sanctioned by God, wasn’t it? Who was getting his advice from his higher father?

Our Founding Fathers tried to make it so that the state could not use religion nor religion use the state. It has had its ups and downs.

Control has always been a goal of both the state and religion. Each wants to use the other for its own means.

In the case of Christianity,the usurper was Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus.

C&J:

It was Phelps group that inspired Patriot Guard Riders.

Here is another link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ2QY_1sXCI

I like Patriot Guards answer to Phelps a great deal. We work with these people. They are some of our country’s finest.

jlw

Why do you think the war in Iraq was sanctioned by God? Bush was a man of faith and I am sure he did what he thought was right by that faith. But if you find an instance where he said his decision was sanctioned by God, please supply the link.

Craig

I am glad that the bad has inspired the good.

Bush Jr stated he was called by God to run for and become president. its logical extension to state god wants us in Iraq if he really called Bush. Anointed of God can do no wrong…

john

It is not a logical extension. You are reading your personality into someone else.

As Emerson wrote, a man’s view of society is really a confession of his own character.

It is more comfortable for some to have daddy think for them. It relieves them of being responsible for their own actions. It sanctions their hatreds, bigotry and lazy thinking. It makes them the center of God’s attention, which is, of course, is the center of their own mind. It hides their own narcissism. It works especially well when they join a hive mentality that reconfirms their self delusion. They then get to be guardians of the gate of their own “in” clique.

seems religion as a whole does nothing but reinforce one paradigm. there are some who take religion and it makes them better people benefiting all around them. most of the time it reinforces stereotypes and prejudices. religion has been the source of most of history’s wars… when are we going to learn

john & Gergle

I am not a very religious person myself, so I cannot defend directly. But I work with lots of religious and non-religious people. There are good and bad among both. Generally, however, the people of faith tend to be more reliably generous and honest. Statistics bear this out.

Religion creates a sense of community that is hard to duplicate in other situations for ordinary people. Christianity, at least how it works in the U.S., also encourages a type of humility and forgiveness.

You can criticize that people don’t live up to these ideals, but I think it is good to have them as goals. If people followed much of the advice in the New Testament, they would be better people.

Faith also gives people courage to face the inevitable problems of life.

I would make a distinction between faith and superstition. People of faith ask God to make them better people. As Abe Lincoln said, “I am less concerned about God being on my side than I am with me being on God’s side.” Superstition is when you try to get God to be involved in giving you outside help.

I also rejec the idea that religion has caused most wars. Religion is a big part of human life. It has been used as an excuse for wars. But if you look carefully, there is usually something else involved.

During the height of the religious war period, Catholic France was often friendly with Islamic Turkey against Catholic Spain & Austria. During the 30 years war (1618-48) it would have been impossible to understand the alliances based only on religion.

In the 20th Century, we have officially militantly atheist regimes, such as the Soviet Union, Communist China or the Khimer Rouge who are responsible for the bulk of all civilian deaths in that very deadly century. The Nazis killed many millions in the service of “scientific” racial theories. The Jews’ religion didn’t matter. The Nazis checked the genetic ancestry.

We agree that all who kill in the name of God are evil people. It is no coincidence, however, that those who kill in the name of God often end up with the money and property of those they killed. It would be hard to figure out the dominant motivation.

One of the reasons Hitler was lenient on the Christians was that he thought that the Christian ethics would commit the people to the war effort and console the people over the loss of a whole generation of young Germans to war.

America doesn’t go to war without its priests and like the Romans, we accommodate the other religions in this effort.

C&J, Bush claimed his electoral college victory was sanctioned by God. He announced that one of his primary advisers was God. The speculation is based on the evidence.

I know that God did not sanction the Bush presidency or the Iraq War, but try to convince many on the right of that. Many of them think that God not only sanctioned but personally played a leading role in creating this country.

No, it is not hard to figure out the dominate motivation. The Gods are tools used by authority for domination of their own people as well as others.

The existence of a creator God is unproven. Many religious people have faith that there is one. Some believe the bill of goods being sold by the hierarchy that this creator God intervenes in a personal way in our daily lives. Science doubts the existence of a creator, but to date, they have not supplied definite proof one way or the other.

The Gods are another kettle of fish. They were called Lords before they were called Gods and beings from another planet before that. It is history, science fiction, or heresy depending on your point of view.

jlw

Confession. Yes it does take faith to believe in a God who is the creator of everything. But, it takes more faith to believe the opposite.

gergle

Dude you’re hangin with the wrong group. There are all kinds of people in all kinds of situations. If you do not have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, you cannot understand who God is. People will disappoint you, turn on you, stab you in the back, etc. But the God who created heaven and earth clearly states in his word, the Bible, that he will never leave me or forsake me. No other god can make that claim and have it be true. No other god lives. All other gods are dead.

jlw

I cannot prove the existence of God to you. I can prove that it doesn’t take organized religion to get people to kill each other in nasty ways. Avowed communists, whose ideology claims atheism, were the biggest killers of the last century.

It is your choice if you believe or not in God. The absence of God is hell.

You are right that Hitler used Christianity. He was not particularly kind toward Christians. The Nazis systematically attacked the Catholic Church in Poland because they saw it as a part of Polish culture.

Tom Humes,

Nope, I’m hangin with the right group. The arrogance of someone who believes only his select group can understand something explains a lot about the right wing that spews hatred.

My response was an “in kind” response to another arrogant post.

C&J,

Stalin was a big killer, but in aggregate, my guess is that believers in a god killed more in the last century. The biggest truth is that evil men kill. They aren’t exclusive to any group, and often claim themselves righteous.

Tom humes, It takes the most faith to believe that one can be greedy, selfish and hateful most of their lives and it is ok because someone else died for ones sins. I have trouble with this message because of that eye of a needle, give it away and follow me, and Paul’s statement that there are no second chances. No such thing as born again.

I have trouble trusting in the goodness of a God who is a murderer himself.

C&J, I am not proclaiming that religion is the greatest killer of all times. Likewise, you should not try to put an emphasis on one century out of 70 or more.

“The biggest truth is that evil men kill.”

Often, those evil men are touted as champions of the faith, champions of the state, champions of freedom, champions of democracy.

jlw
Where is truth found in your last post? If there is no truth in what you have posted, then there is nothing more to be said.

Your comment to C&J about champions. It is your label of champions that is the hook. Men do things that they should not do. I have a living GOD that I can approach and ask forgiveness for those errors and sins. He will forgive me and as a Christian I can approach my fellow man who I have wronged and ask for that same forgiveness. That is a life I have chosen to live. I am at peace with mankind and God. What more do I need?

So, C&J, do I hear you correctly that you repudiate God and Country Republicans who support American military expansion around the globe, in the name of God and Country? Or, only half repudiate them on the God bit, but, support their call for American military expansion on the Country basis?

Help clarify this ambiguous allusion of yours in the opening paragraph of your article. Thanks.

Gergle.

It is distasteful to do the counting, but I would guess that communism manages to edge out all other murder types, if you add in Mao’s massive killings plus all the little killers like Pol Pot.

How much the Nazis believed in religion is an open question. Some Nazis were religious but religion, at least the kind we would recognize, was not a big part of the Nazi platform. They persecuted Jews, Poles, Gypsies etc because of their ethnicity, not their religions. A person of Jewish heritage who was born Christian didn’t make a difference to the SS.

In the 20th Century, people were persecuted killed specifically because of their race, ethnicity, nationality and social class, but except in the case of a few jihads, killing for or being killed for religion was not the main cause of carnage in the most carnage filled century in human history.

David

I don’t think that God endorses any human endeavor. It is up to people to get in line with His priorities. Lincoln had a good line “with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right.”

Re fighting wars, I prefer to avoid them if possible, but once we are in I want to win.

C&J,

I have had the pleasure of knowing people who are truly “spiritual” Christians who are kind and generous to a fault.

I’ve also watched the religious and not so spiritual use the bible to judge others, exclude those who disagree with their beliefs and force their views onto others.

I’m not a big fan of organized religion because it consists of concentrated power, vague rules that are easily misenterpreted and twisted and most of all and I mean most of all….they pretty much condemn masturbation ;)

Andre

That is man at work. That is what man does.
When God goes to work, magnificient, marvelous and glorious things happen. That is because he is the almighty. I am pleased that you are aquainted with some Christians who practice Christianity. When man looks at man for what God can do there will be trouble to follow.

By organized religion, do you mean the various names, like Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, etc. and and their followers? Sometimes organizatons can do more to harm the work of God than the secular world of make believe religion. I am not looking at one particular group, but they all can be really nasty from time to time. I go to the Assemblies of God church in my area. I disagree with them often. There is not another church our of 29 that I would be more comfortable in going to, so I am where I am.

Tom humes
“By organized religion, do you mean the various names, like Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, etc. and and their followers? Sometimes organizations can do more to harm the work of God than the secular world of make believe religion. “

to all the other religions in the world… Christianity,is the ” make believe” religion… speaking so is insulting and rude to all other faiths… this is the standard mindset of ALL religious zealot… belief is a good thing religion, and religious groups are just more political organizations that control the masses.

Andre hit the nail on the head when he stated “I’m not a big fan of organized religion because it consists of concentrated power, vague rules that are easily misinterpreted and twisted”…sounds like our congress and the constant manipulation of how the constitution is to be interpreted.

C&J,

Frankly, you are confusing Nazism with it’s propaganda. Hitler was nationalist and a despot. The supposed genetic nonsense was simply a convenient enemy of the state. Hitler himself was likely of Jewish ancestry. Some suppose it may have been the source of some of his bigotry. It was about nothing more than a megalomaniac seeking power and wealth using nationalistic rhetoric. Hitler preyed on German’s prejudices. I find Germany fascinating, today. They continue to hold on to their prejudices, but now fear their military.

Western religion is based in political affiliations that arose in the middle east. Arguing about which “faith” or non-faith killed more people is a bit of a nonsense argument, but I suppose that goes with religious faith being a rather nonsense argument.

Gergle

I don’t think we can separate the propaganda from the party. I don’t know what Hitler really thought about things. He used these arguments that evidently appealed to people who acted on them. They believed them and that motivated him.

Re prejudices - there are no people in the world w/o prejudices. Some are more destructive than others or less adaptive.

Germany did not need to become what it did. In 1914, it was probably among the most tolerant places, with respect for law and rights. If we brought 1914 Germany up to modern times, it would be more democratic, less corrupt and better run than a majority of the countries today. The war socialism and the regimentation of the Nazis made that great evil happen and possible. It made the prejudices actionable.