One way or another…

Our Leftist President and Congress, at odds with the American people, fully intend to ram ‘Healthcare Reform’ down our throats no matter what— for our own good! “They’ll learn to love it,” they say. Hope and Change indeed. But Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are more likely to feel feedback of another sort from voters if they continue down this road of arrogance and ruin.

Carville poll: Only a third of voters support Barack Obama’s national health-care plan

According to Democracy Corps, likely voters have a sharply negative view of the president’s health-care and economic plans, and a far more favorable view of Republicans than they did a few months ago. Because Democracy Corps was founded by Democrats James Carville and Stanley Greenberg, the firm’s findings have significant influence in national Democratic circles. ~dailycaller.com


Just another example of how Obama is bringing America together.

In light of this what is the best course of action? When your ideologically driven political agenda is distasteful to most Americans is it wise to disregard the will of the people and double-down? To attempt to ram the legislation through no matter what? Democrats have already hinted that they will try to delay seating Brown if he wins in Massachusetts Tuesday because his election will lose them their 60 seat filibuster safety margin.

Some are hinting that they must cheat in order to win this seat-- to save healthcare and to, 'keep those bastards out [of office].'

A defeat in Massachusetts will not translate into anything resembling thoughtful consideration of the people's will. Not for Obama and not for Congress.

President Barack Obama plans a combative response if, as White House aides fear, Democrats lose Tuesday’s special Senate election in Massachusetts, close advisers say.

“This is not a moment that causes the president or anybody who works for him to express any doubt,” a senior administration official said. “It more reinforces the conviction to fight hard.” ~dyn.politico.com


And the queen of the House has issued a proclamation as well:
"Let's remove all doubt, we will have health care -- one way or another," Pelosi said. "Back to the drawing board means a great big zero for the American people." ~sfgate.com

The American people don't want it, but that sure that doesn't seem to matter to the left.

"...we will have health care -- one way or another," Pelosi said.

Posted by Eric Simonson at January 19, 2010 1:22 AM
Comments
Comment #294031

Yes, this is your real fear isn’t it?

Once Americans learn that the reform is a positive thing and the fear mongering from Republicans pushing lobbyist agendas is just exactly that, Republicans will lose again big time.

Guess you’ll just have to come up with a new set of lies.

Posted by: gergle at January 19, 2010 4:35 AM
Comment #294033

So the Dem president that once again saved capitalism from total collaspe is villiefied. There is nothing new under the sun.Disgusting.

Posted by: bills at January 19, 2010 6:12 AM
Comment #294035

I don’t know what happened to the polls that said people were in favor of health care reform. But according to Eric, politicians should change direction as often as often as the polls so dictate.

Posted by: Schwamp at January 19, 2010 7:44 AM
Comment #294041

“In Massachusetts, I support the 2006 healthcare law that was successful in expanding coverage, but I also recognize that the state must now turn its attention to controlling costs.” Scott Brown website, 2010.

The health reform bill now before congress is essentially a model of the 2006 health care bill passed in Mass. expanding coverage. But, Brown vows to vote against it despite his continuing support of it in Massachusetts. So, whats good for Massachusetts isn’t good for the rest of the country? The logic escapes me.


Posted by: Rich at January 19, 2010 10:14 AM
Comment #294043

Eric in your zeal to spread the half truths, misdirection, and outright lies of the extremist on the far right you have framed the HC plan currently being debated as plan from the leftist President and Congress. You seem to forget the roll many conservatives played in the process.

Lets remember that the Liberals wanted a single payer plan, real socialized health care not the negotiated mess on the table now. We must also remember that while the repubs obstructed any real debate on the HC issue this past several months this was not a plan pushed through by liberals. This was a plan that got to where it is at because of the conservatives in the Democratic party and an Independent in the Senate. IMHO this bill is at the point where many of those to the left of center do not like it and have no real passion when it comes to fighting to get it passed. IMHO it should be called Romneycare not Obamacare.

Lets face it, the HC bill has more to do with the politics of party power than health care at this point, always did for the repubs. That is why the poll numbers change so much and why the latest poll only shows a third of voters still favoring the bill. The special interests, conservatives and repubs have been formidable in their opposition and it shows with the end result of the bill. But isn’t that the way of politics? Aren’t many bills a compromise and less than perfect?

Posted by: j2t2 at January 19, 2010 10:34 AM
Comment #294044

Rich,
He has reason to vote against it now. To get elected, Republicans require you to comply with their mission of violating the intent of the constitution by ensuring no bill passes without a supermajority of 60 votes. Not an ounce of integrity among them.

Posted by: Schwamp at January 19, 2010 11:22 AM
Comment #294047

Operative question: Do people dislike the current bill because it goes too far, or not far enough?

Not far enough.

Eric assumes one alternative, the alternative that he pushes, despite the fact that the numbers who consider the healthplan sufficient or insufficient outnumber the ones who consider it excessive.

Eric, for whatever reason, is not telling us the truth about what people really want.

The trouble here is that the Republicans complicate things with their rhetoric. They drive down poll numbers, but often enough, they drive them down by giving people an inaccurate picture of what the actual policies, or anticipated results are, based on the evidence.

So, I take this bit of rhetoric by Eric to be par for his particular course. But I don’t think any reader should take his arguments of fear and loathing seriously.

I think it’s time for adults in the room to stand up and acknowledge that this is an issue we need to deal with, and deal with now.

Just look at the polls: however unpopular the President’s plan is, thanks to months of Republican vitriol and vile lies, they nearly always poll a distant third in relation to him, behind even the Congressional majority they hope to scuttle.

Is this the future of the Republican Party, to mire the country in paranoid catatonia, to keep it from effectively governing itself or responding to its immediate and long term needs? Is this the service you Republicans want your party doing for the nation, all in the name of your principles and ideals?

Repeat after me: Results matter more than politics. That should be the standard all parties and politicians carry. We’ve tried things the Republican’s way. They’ve had their try at having the free market do things.

If they aren’t getting the results we need, there is no reasonable point in sitting in the mud, waiting for it dry, before we admit that the problem’s not been solved their way. We need to get off our asses and reform the system. It’s sad that there is only one party that is functionally seeking results for the American people, and that the other party, unable to keep it’s power, is hamstringing the othe party from using theirs, in order to cheat their way into looking like the better party.

Eric’s afraid that Democrats are going to get out the vote. If they do, today, and we win, is he going to accuse us all of cheating? Is this a pre-emptive charge of fraud?

Is their no end to the overwrought melodrama Republican politicians and their pundits are willing to indulge in, to avoid admitting they failed, when they were given their chance?

Those who do not admit their failures cannot undo them, cannot be trusted not to repeat them. With all due respect to those Massachussetts voters who vote for Scott Brown, such a vote is foolish. No Republican will fight for what a Democrat cares for, and you will not get a less gridlocked government.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 19, 2010 12:03 PM
Comment #294049

“So, whats good for Massachusetts isn’t good for the rest of the country? The logic escapes me.”
Posted by: Rich at January 19, 2010 10:14 AM

Well Rich…it’s the same logic that can be found in exempting big labor from the “Cadillac Tax” on their health care premiums. The same logic that gave away millions to ensure the vote of Nelson and Landreau and others.

In reading the posts above I find a sense of defeat among some of the liberal writers. And, the continuing blaming of Republicans for liberals not getting the health care plan they hoped for is getting hilarious. Please tell me how, with total control of congress and the WH, the R’s can be blamed for anything passed or not passed?

How quickly political fortunes can change and how quickly the liberals have gone from gloating to whining.

Why is it so difficult for liberals to accept public opinion which keeps growing in numbers against any of the health care bills now in congress. It is what it is…a flawed, costly, and ineffective attempt to solve health care problems.

Liberals found no problem in blaming the ineffectiveness, poor governance, and washed up political philosophy of republicans to account for recent Democrat election victories. Now, this same party is ceding great power to this failed republican party in thwarting democrat efforts to pass health care legislation.

How is it possible that such a despised and powerless republican party can accomplish so much damage to democrats. The truth is, democrats have done the damage to themselves by over reaching in their singular goals of socializing our entire government and economy.

While I didn’t much care for many of Bill Clinton’s policies no one can deny that his campaign slogan of “It’s the economy stupid” was successful and accurate. Obama and many Dem leaders still don’t get it…it’s still the economy stupid. Some of those libs in congress run around with their hair on fire yelling about fixing health care while the American people see their economic future collapsing around them.

The dems were poised to be in leadership positions for many years until their greed, graft and corruption got in the way. In two short years they will have squandered the opportunity of a lifetime.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 19, 2010 12:52 PM
Comment #294053

Royal Flush-

How is it possible that such a despised and powerless republican party can accomplish so much damage to democrats.

Because the Republicans are political nihilists, and as such, do not care about the niceties of party diversity, suiting their politics to the regional concerns, and doing anything, including paralyzing the government, in order to get what they want.

They can do anything they want right now because they believe, fundamentally, that it’s all for the best, even if they have no real way to prove it. They have the freedom of charismatic rebellion, of not being afraid to destroy themselves or others to win the fight.

If they keep this up, they will either lead themselves into an even more dysfunctional majority, or they will push the Democrats hard enough that they adapt to the Republican strategy and disable it in some fashion.

This is not a fight they will win, and the fact that they don’t care is all that keeps them going, for the time being.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 19, 2010 1:38 PM
Comment #294054

SD…that is a very weak argument in my opinion. You wrote in part, “…and doing anything, including paralyzing the government, in order to get what they want.”

Could you please describe how this paralyzing you speak of has prevented any of the liberals programs so far? What have they failed to achieve at this point due to republican resistance? As for health care, they have an approved bill in both houses and are just awaiting a reconciliation bill to vote on. The R’s have not been able to stop anything the liberals have attempted.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 19, 2010 2:20 PM
Comment #294056

Royal Flush
I think he’s just mad because his own party can’t get it together and had to buy votes to get the Senate version through.

Posted by: KAP at January 19, 2010 2:28 PM
Comment #294058

The Rasmussen Polling Report I received by email a few minutes ago shows some revealing patterns of public opinion.

From the report…

“Interest High In Massachusetts Senate Race: 49% Nationally Want Brown To Win, 34% Pulling For Coakley”

“38% Favor Health Care Plan, 56% Are Opposed”

I have found the Rasmussen poll to be among the most accurate of all those I follow. There definitely seems to be a correlation between the Mass. race and Health Care Plans.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 19, 2010 3:24 PM
Comment #294060

Royal Flush, KAP-
The Number is about 70 percent. Plus, across the way, you have my short, self-evident entry on the One Hundred and Seventy Six Obama Administration appointees, being held up by folks in the Senate.

That’s most of our agenda, and a large part of our government left rudderless.

If that Bomber had succeeded, one of the headlines would have been that Senate Republicans had held up the TSA director. And that’s just one of 176 opportunities for Democrats to tell the American people that the Republicans are getting in the way of the country’s business done.

You are only gloating because your sensibilities are narrowly focused on the POLITICS. You folks are always looking ahead to the future of what your ideal utopia will be like, when the Democrats are finally defeated and everythings done your way. What happens now? You don’t give a ****. The rest us simply have to suck it up while you do what’s best for us.

I’m mad because my party is being forced to party line vote for everything it wants to pass. I’m mad that after all these years in power, having had their chance and ruined it, they’re not content to wallow in their own failure, they’ve got to drag us down and push us down in the mud of their misery with them.

The Republican Party has become a cancer on this country’s ability to succeed. It’s too focused on its own self-perpetuation, it’s own growth and domination to give a flying crap about what it does.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 19, 2010 3:45 PM
Comment #294061


Royal Flush, the poll would have more value if it gave the reasons why 56% oppose the plan. I oppose the plan but, for a totally different reason than you. For me, the plan seems almost Republican in nature, it certainly is corporate friendly.

Quite a few Democratic voters oppose this plan because it doesn’t represent what the party has stood for in the past. If it passes, it will score another victory for corporations and leave millions of Americans uninsured.

Posted by: jlw at January 19, 2010 4:02 PM
Comment #294062

SD…perhaps if the entire focus of the Senate and the president wasn’t on passing this God-awful health care bill, spending money we don’t have, and devising the proper amount of graft to offer in exchange for votes they could have spent more time in finding qualified persons agreeable to both sides to fill these vacant posts.

If these administrative posts are so important to the function of the agencies they are responsible for why in the world do they nominate such polarizing people?

SD’s argument falls flat on its face. One can’t argue that these folks are imperative for the proper administration of the agencies involved and then nominate folks for purely political reasons.

I want to congratulate the United States Military for the outstanding job they are doing in Haiti.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 19, 2010 4:06 PM
Comment #294063


The rest of us will have to suck it up while the two political parties take turns deciding what is best for us. The corporations are very helpful when it comes to making those decisions.

Posted by: jlw at January 19, 2010 4:11 PM
Comment #294070

Royal Flush-

SD…perhaps if the entire focus of the Senate and the president wasn’t on passing this God-awful health care bill, spending money we don’t have, and devising the proper amount of graft to offer in exchange for votes they could have spent more time in finding qualified persons agreeable to both sides to fill these vacant posts.

Read the article. One official is being filibustered over clove cigarettes.

Let me know when you’re done rationalizing your party’s extremism by pointing to the results of the process you forced on us, the process we had to go through to PASS ANYTHING AT ALL.

I’m really sick of this BS. Your people could murder babies on the steps of the capitol and your folks would say that this sacrifice was necessary to illustrate to Americans the cost of the Democrat’s policies on abortion.

You can’t even admit that this level of obstruction is abnormal, dysfunctional, or, God help us, wrong. Whatever the party does is right and righteous.

We actually bent over backwards to involve you people, in the hopes that we could get something better. We were willing to compromise, in fact too willing. We allowed you that time period to negotiate with us, which to you took advantage of with those town hall melodramas.

The Republicans have demonstrated continuously over the last few years that if there is one rule they try to hold the Democrats to, there will be another rule they hold themselves to, if any at all. And why? Because supposedly, after all the crap that has happened, Republican leadership is still better.

No, it’s not, really. Your leadership is simply more willing to play games with people’s lives, rather than do its job. It’s what got you in the minority to begin with, and God I hope it’s what puts you in that minority to stay until you learn your lesson. The country comes first, not the party. You don’t get to destroy this country to save it.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 19, 2010 5:12 PM
Comment #294073

Stephen
As I stated in the blue column, Holding up nominees is a pathetic practice used by both parties. You cry when Republicans do it but cheer when Democrarts do it. PATHETIC.

Posted by: KAP at January 19, 2010 5:25 PM
Comment #294077

SD wrote; “You don’t get to destroy this country to save it.”

Wait a minute…that’s my line. I maintain that we are being destroyed by this crazy spending.

When qualified and appealing candidates are nominated they will get a vote. Stop sending up those dim-wits and socialists and you’ll get your vote.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 19, 2010 5:49 PM
Comment #294081

If voters give Republicans the power to offer their version of Health Care Reform, voters will end up wishing they had enthusiastically supported the Democrat’s version. But, of course, that option is not in the cards. There is that nasty doubling of the national debt by Republicans and involving our nation in an unnecessary war blockading that potential.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 19, 2010 6:43 PM
Comment #294086

Republicans did not operate in a vacuum nor did Democrats when all this spending took place.

I would like to see both parties start over and produce a health care plan that really does the job. But…I know that won’t happen so it’s better to have no plan.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 19, 2010 7:32 PM
Comment #294089

David, that’s rather doubtful, but if Republicans win today in Ma. maybe both parties can get together and create something that resembles HC reform instead of the BS bill that is in congress now. Democrats and Republicans get together LOL. Not with the democrat leadership now!

Posted by: KAP at January 19, 2010 7:45 PM
Comment #294092

KAP, and not with the Party of NO, whose objective is not good governance, but, bringing down this president by any means possible. Americans with a lick of patriotic sense should be wishing and working to support this president’s success in leading our country, instead of fighting his every intent and objective, defined by public or national need.

Truly, the last thing Republicans want is job growth. That would deprive them of ammunition against Democrats and Obama, and create a more positive view by the public of Democrat’s handling of the reins of power. Republicans DO NOT want more jobs, and will exercise every stall and delay and NO vote possible to insure Americans DO NOT enjoy job growth or a faster pace to the recovery from the recession and slow growth aftermath.

Democrats after all, did the same thing to GW Bush from 2007 to 2009. Too bad the public does not understand and grasp this prime mover in today’s politics. If they did, they might not have been so easily misled by all the Republican propaganda and misinformation regarding the health care reform proposals as they developed and evolved through the legislative process.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 19, 2010 8:11 PM
Comment #294094

KAP-
You seem far too trusting in that Party’s real intentions. They were filibustering us when we had 59 earlier last year, they’ll do it again if we have them again this year.

I mean, they fought half a year, trying to stall Al Franken’s entry into the Senate. What makes you think they did this because Norm Coleman had any chance of winning? The verdict was clear long before then.

The Republicans want power back. And they don’t want to have to compete with a Congress that has loads of achievements under its belt.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 19, 2010 8:15 PM
Comment #294096

Just a question on the filibuster. Why don’t the Democrats just all agree agree to vote for cloture on every bill? Then only a simple majority would be needed for the actual floor vote.

Or with 60 votes, why don’t they just change the filibuster and cloture rules?

I’m at a lost to see how Republicans have a say in any of this…..

Posted by: George at January 19, 2010 8:23 PM
Comment #294097

David

Re health care - we should have neither a Democratic or Republican version. It will be better when Republicans have a little more power to compel Democrats to negotiate in good faith. The compromise bill (including tort reform etc) will be better than the Democratic bill and better than what would be the Republican alternative.

Re job growth - I would like to see it but I don’t expect much for another year. The recession is running its course. The stimulus will not rush it.

Posted by: Christine at January 19, 2010 8:25 PM
Comment #294100

Stephen, I don’t trust either party but I trust Democrats far less now.
David
BULLS__T

Posted by: KAP at January 19, 2010 8:42 PM
Comment #294116

Stephen,

I think you may be projecting a great deal into what you think conservative motives are. Mainly these are strawmen of what you wish your political enemy to believe.

Eric assumes one alternative, the alternative that he pushes

What alternative is that?

I oppose more government control and involvement in our lives. This healthcare reform is nothing if not invasive, intrusive, and entirely about taking over the management of healthcare. I don’t oppose it because I hate people or ‘progress.’ But because I believe that I want to make more of my own decisions rather than having to deal with the government beauracracy. Which I prefer not to do.

One size fits all solutions for a problem that doesn’t exist is not a good idea for the country or for the cause of freedom.

Your interpretations of polls about how America wants Cuban or Venezuelan style healthcare is not rational or believable.

If you ask the question by saying do you want free healthcare even I would say yes, give me free stuff! I don’t want to pay! But when you realize what ‘free’ healthcare will actually cost no rational person would say yes to such a faustian bargain.

Posted by: eric at January 19, 2010 10:37 PM
Comment #294179

DR wrote; “Too bad the public does not understand and grasp this prime mover in today’s politics.”

I believe the vote last night in Mass would disprove DR’s premise. They do understand and are angry with the way Washington is pushing socialism on this country.

“Socialism always fails when it runs out of other people’s money”

Margaret Thatcher

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 20, 2010 12:28 PM
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