Republicans & Conservatives Archives

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/19/AR2009121900921.html?hpid=topnews Reid says he has the 60 votes but at what overall cost to his party?

“They fought the good fight. They are heroes for holding up this monstrosity at least for a little while.”

Oh puleeze you guys, the good fight? The repubs did nothing positive. How unfortunate they set the bar so low during their insipid reign that ultra partisans such as yourself actually believe the “fought the good fight”.

” The Democrats wanted to push this whole thing through in dead-of-night secret. They didn’t want to let the sunlight in. They didn’t want a debate.”
Or perhaps they just got tired of the obstructionist and their delay tactics and gave up trying to include the repubs in a bipartisan effort to truly reform health care in this country. Not that the repubs thought there was a problem with health care as it was.

“The Democrats may indeed manage to ram these programs through and they kept their own secrets, but the American people found out what they are doing.”

Well not so much the American people as so many are conservatives and/or teabags and were against any kind of health care reform to begin with. I would say the progressives and those that still held out hope the dems were for the little guy found out that there isn’t a nickel’s difference between the two parties anymore.

“The Democrats in Congress are picking our pockets big time.”

Well the health insurance companies and the special interest that spent so much in the form of campaign contributions and lobbying are anyway. The dems are just the political vehicle used to make it legal for the insurance companies, much like the repub relationship with the credit card companies and banks a while back.

“We cannot stop them, but at least we now know they are doing it.”

Oh come on guys the only difference now is it is the dems not the repubs in charge and collecting the money from the lobbyist instead of the repubs. Ask yourselves if that is the reason you are upset now but thought the credit card and bankruptcy “reform” was ok when it was the repubs hitting up the lobbyist for campaign funds.

“At least it won’t be so easy for them to get away with it or shift the blame.”

Which is what the repub plan was all along. I agree that it will work for the repubs and this may well be the achilles heel that sinks the dems for the next couple of decades, like gun control in the seventies. However before you break your arm patting yourselves on the back remember that only corporate America was served by this strategy and the rest of us will pay the price. As the yoke of corporate/economic servitude tightens around the neck of the American people remember it was the dems this time but also remember the repubs stood by and did nothing for political gain. Not a lot to be proud of if you ask me.

J2t2

I heard they are planning to hold the vote at 1am. That is zero DARK 100. They usually call that the dead of night.

This one clearly belongs to the Democrats. If we are wrong and the reforms work out better than we think, the Democrats can take all the credit. They will deserve it, since they are taking the risk and will get all the blame if it doesn’t work. iacta alea est – the die is cast. That is what Julius Caesar said when he crossed the Rubicon and staked his fate and that of the Roman Republic on his bold & dangerous decision. The Democrats have tossed the dice with their future and that of the American economy.

Maybe we will be wrong. When a bipartisan majority passed welfare reform during the Clinton Administration, some liberals actually cried. They were wrong. The reforms worked. If we make it, we can all laugh at our fight, but I fear tomorrow more than just Republicans will be crying.

Any student congress across this nation could have produced a better bill. One that actually addresses a true need and attempts to fix it.

1) no one can read the bill, including those who are supposed to be voting on it. Is this democracy?

2) The problem this is supposed to fix is the uninsured. A group touted as being 46 million but in reality those who truly cannot afford it, are not illegal immigrants, are not in their twenties and want to pay for health insurance is probably half that. (For government purposes if you were without health insurance for even a day in the year you are ‘uninsured’ during that year.)

So democrats are using this as a ‘cover’ problem to switch to a completely different solution. The real problem they want to solve is the lack of government run health care. This is an ideological crusade to bring about government control of health care not insure the uninsured.

“I heard they are planning to hold the vote at 1am. That is zero DARK 100. They usually call that the dead of night.”

Shades of Bill Frist and the repub majority trying to pass the Schavio bill on PAlm Sunday with only 3 repubs and 0 dems present. Well not quite as bad but where was your outrage and anger then Christine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Sunday_Compromise

“This one clearly belongs to the Democrats. If we are wrong and the reforms work out better than we think, the Democrats can take all the credit.”

I don’t think you are wrong this is a scam “reform” bill and the dems will deserve the fallout from the bill if they go through with it.

” The Democrats have tossed the dice with their future and that of the American economy.”

The insurance companies will fare well on this and the rich will get richer, the sick will get sicker and those that get ill can still slide into bankruptcy. The drug companies bought in early and will remain protected, which is an insult to the American people. The trial lawyers will benefit considerably as the insurance companies fight most of the “reforms” in the courts. Meanwhile the repubs can claim innocence to a degree, but lets all remember the part conservatives and the ideology of conservatism has left us saddled with. After all Christine that is what lead us to the mandatory insurance requirement and the lack of a public option isn’t it?

“Maybe we will be wrong. When a bipartisan majority passed welfare reform during the Clinton Administration, some liberals actually cried. They were wrong. The reforms worked. If we make it, we can all laugh at our fight, but I fear tomorrow more than just Republicans will be crying.”

To bad the same can’t be said during the GWB administration eh Christine? Without a doubt more than just repubs will be crying as many liberals and progressives will be, me thinks, and I know I will after this pitiful mess is passed into law. But if anyone thinks that corporate America doesn’t have our system of government by the short hairs then shame on them.

j2t2

All that we can say is that this is 100% Democrat bill. If they don’t like it, why are they so enthusiastic about passing it? And why should any Republicans jump on this train as it heads for the wreck.

It was Republican duty to oppose this thing and they did. We regret that they were not strong enough to stop it.

“All that we can say is that this is 100% Democrat bill. If they don’t like it, why are they so enthusiastic about passing it?”

The only reason I can think of is a good many of them have gained personally from the process. The campaign coffers must be full after shaking down the insurance company lobbyist. Or perhaps the political price of not passing a bill would be more than the dems wanted to pay. Either way what good does it do the American people for the repubs to have been the obstructionist during the entire process? The repub party wins politically, the people lose but who cares? What an attitude Christine.

“And why should any Republicans jump on this train as it heads for the wreck. It was Republican duty to oppose this thing and they did. We regret that they were not strong enough to stop it.”

I don’t think anyone should jump on this train now. Why was it their duty to oppose the bill Christine? Had they opposed the bill after exhausting efforts to make the bill a real reform bill they would have had the respect of many of us. What the repubs did was to oppose the bill based upon false premises without contributing to the process since the inception of the bill.
It is as if they were either in fear of the insurance lobby or already bought off by the insurance lobby. To think that this country doesn’t need to reform health care speaks of a bigger problem for those on the right.

To not offer any reasonable alternatives does not quailify the repubs/conservatives for hero status by any stretch IMHO. Remember they did not help the American people nor was it their intent, instead they have used this obstructionist strategy to gain politically which is probably the worst reason to be in lockstep that I can think of. Certainly the actions of elected repubs were not noble nor admirable in any way.

j2t2

It was their duty to oppose the bill because it is a bad bill. Republican ideas, such as tort reform and cost controls were rejected out of hand. They were literally locked out of some conference rooms and the Democratic leadership kept everybody in the dark.

The Republicans repeatedly offered alternatives. I think that Republicans came to the same conclusion that we did, that nothing was better than the Democratic plan. These are some solutions offered by Republicans.

The Democratic idea of a bipartisan bill was to allow the Republicans to jump on their wagon. This is not cooperation.

So let’s use this analogy. You are driving a car toward the cliff. You won’t let me give advice or help drive. Instead all you do is try to blame me for the fact that the road ends abruptly ahead. It is my duty to try to stop you careening off the cliff. It makes no sense for me to help you push the accelerator.

Republicans were not allowed to significantly change the bill and they couldn’t change the direction. They understood it was a bad bill. The only alternative left was to resist it.

Unfortunately, they lost. Republicans were not strong enough to stop the bad Democratic bill. Blame them for weakness, but don’t ask why they didn’t try to help the failure fail faster.

BTW - I do not agree with you that the Democrats are bribed off. I think that many honestly believe that their health reform is necessary and the best they can get. The Democrats are not all crooks, but they are wrong in their world view.

Lets be honest. The focus of the Republican effort was to kill health reform not provide a viable alternative. They had ample time during the Bush administration to propose serious reform but failed to do so.

The major GOP proposal of “across state line” sales is seriously flawed without national insurance regulations. Otherwise it is nothing but an insurance deregulatory scheme requiring states to manage and subsidize high risk pools for older and sick individuals who would be priced out of the private insurance market. If the GOP was serious about national competition, it would have endorsed the national insurance exchange proposals of the House bill. But that would come with national standards.

The GOP sponsored Patient Choice Act is a rehash of the McCain campaign proposals. That bill would essentially remove the tax exclusions on employer provided health insurance driving workers into the private individual health insurance market. The tax exclusion would be replaced with a tax credit for purchase of private insurance. It would be a sea change in how health insurance is provided in the US. Not likely to receive public support when understood.

In any case, whether it be the Democratic proposals or Republican, the common winner is the health insurance industry and big Pharma. With all the partisan wrangling, somehow or another, the monyed interests always seem to emerge victorious. A sad testimony to our current political system or should I say our corporate contolled system.

Rich

Nothing is better than the Democratic proposal.

This is very interesting. Almost everybody says that the Democratic plan is no good. Even liberals. Yet it keeps on coming like a front of bad weather.

And you and many others make the argument that it is bad, but the Republicans didn’t do anything better so we have to take it. We don’t.

The Democratic leadership created an artificial hysteria. Well, not completely artificial. They rightly said that we had to do something to control costs.

Then they did nothing to control costs and in fact increased them.

The Democrats want to be generous with other people’s money, or in this case w/o any money at all. They are making promises that they know will not be fulfilled.

You are right that the Democratic bill will be a pay off to all sorts of interest groups.

So we will have a bill. We will have a bad bill. Negotiations 101 tells us that a bad deal is worse than no deal.