Suprise Veep for McCain

In a surprise move likely to be characterized as an attempt to siphon off angry Clinton women voters, John McCain has chosen Sarah Palin to be his running mate.

Personally this strikes me as a losing move if it can't be shown that Palin, currently serving as Alaska's governor, has unique experience and is otherwise emminenty qualified to take up the mantle of the presidency.

Posted by Lee Emmerich Jamison at August 29, 2008 10:50 AM
Comments
Comment #259981

Agree that the move seems simply to appeal to Hillary voters. It seems incredible to me that McCain chose a vice-presidential candidate with only 2 years experience in major political office. She may be an incredible talent but so long to the Obama lacks experience argument.

Posted by: Rich at August 29, 2008 11:07 AM
Comment #259984

McCain is such a hypocrite.
Repubs say that Obama is too inexperienced to lead, yet McCain who is like 150 years old goes and chooses a #2 who is 44 years old with next to no experience. He just wants to try and look like his ticket is progressive by adding a woman to the bill.

Posted by: Paul at August 29, 2008 11:13 AM
Comment #259987

She will help with the pro-lifers. She has a reputation of fighting corruption and she is not entrenched in the “Washington politics” the Obamatons “say” they detest.
Barring any skeletons, she may help charge Republicans into showing up to vote.

She is what McCain needed and it is better to have a #2 with little experience than a #1.

Posted by: kctim at August 29, 2008 11:28 AM
Comment #259988

Terrible pick. It smacks of desperation. McCain opted for a candidate intented to attract Hillary voters. That’s a decent strategy, and choosing a qualified woman makes sense, but it is really, really a stretch to suggest Palin is qualified to be next in line for the presidency.

It’s all about judgment, and McCain has just demonstrated horrendously bad judgment.

Posted by: phx8 at August 29, 2008 11:30 AM
Comment #259991

It’s not official yet, so you never know, but I do not think that this pick is ‘bad judgement’ no matter how you want to appear to be, phx8.

I have to agree with kctim, this is a good pick for him, much better than Romney would have been. VP is not as important as POTUS, yet the Dems picked someone with similar qualifications as the person they say isn’t qualified to be a VP candidate?

How can you say that Palin isn’t qualified to be ‘next in line’ but with a straight face say that Obama is more than qualified? One has 6 years of executive experience (mayor and governor), the other was a Senator in both his state and the nation?

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 11:38 AM
Comment #259992

BTW, shouldn’t you be over in the left column calling anyone who doesn’t support Obama a racist with the rest of your buddies? I thought that was the Progressive Talking Point of the Day?

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 11:40 AM
Comment #259993

Palin has little experience… but still more than Obama and more actual executive experience than Obama, Biden and McCain combined.

Obama’s a one term US Senator and Palin is a one term state governor.. the difference being that Obama spent virtually his whole term talking about reform and running for president while Palin was actually DOING her job, boldly taking on her party and BEING a reformer.

Her problem, as I see it (and this is just a first impresseion) is that she’s not slick and polished and market-tested like Obama and Biden. She is the most genuine “outside of Washington” candidate you can imagine, and I could see things being a bit bumpy at first with how she interacts with the press, etc. Let’s wait and see.

If nothing else, it’s an exciting choice that opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities for exciting drama.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 11:44 AM
Comment #259994

Rhinehold,
VP is not as important as POTUS, but it does highlight a presidential candidate’s judgment. It is definitely important with McCain, given his age. He needs a VP who is ready to be president. Palin is at the point in her career where she would be a good keynote speaker at the convention, or have her name floated for VP as a way of showing some love, & setting her up as a future candidate.

There is simply no comparison between Palin and Obama. Remember, Obama created and organized a political campaign which defeated Hillary Clinton for the nomination. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Hillary, that was a tremendous accomplishment by Obama, and shows his organizational and strategic capabilities.

Palin served on a city council, lost a campaign for Lt Gov of Alaska, and defeated a corrupt Republican for her current position. In Alaska.

Palin wasn’t running against Hillary Clinton. She wasn’t running a nationwide campaign. She did not demonstrate an ability to mobilize grassroots, or collect large sums of money from a wide, wide base. No. In one statewide campaign- IN ALASKA- she defeated a wounded GOP governor.

Posted by: phx8 at August 29, 2008 11:53 AM
Comment #259995

Funny. Governor Palin has more executive experience than any of the candidates. Are you telling me that experience is going to be an issue for the VP nominee and NOT for the presidential nominee. This is a great pick. CNN has already gaffed twice on the staying at home to take care of baby issue even though Palin’s husband is the caregiver and the female CNN correspondence said if this were a man you would not have brought up that issue. Again, funny to watch those closed minds scrambling.

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 12:02 PM
Comment #259996

Phx8
That show Obama’s organizational and strategic capabilities at running a campaign, not a country.
How about, instead of comparing campaigns, you compare what each has done in respect to their political careers?
Many of us still researching the Gov would love whatever info available.

Posted by: kctim at August 29, 2008 12:02 PM
Comment #259997

Phx8, a campaign is not governing, and defeating Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary when only liberals are voting is not a qualification to be president of all Americans.

By your logic, ANY person who defeated Hillary Clinton would then be worthy of the presidency.

You’d also have to say that if McCain defeats Obama who defeated Hillary, that McCain has demonstrated superior governing skills to both of them.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 12:06 PM
Comment #259999

What if, what if Sarah Palin had, eighteen months ago, announced that she was running for the republican nomination for president, raised money, toured, stood the test of the early primaries, stood with her opponents onstage in debate. How long would she have lasted?
Comparing her to Obama is ridiculous. He has gone through the process, he has received the votes that were necessary to secure the nomination of his party. He has presented his ideas, his philosophy, his plans and had them enthusiastically accepted by his party. Sarah Palin, at this moment, has received one vote.
I’m glad that McCain has gone this direction. Whether or not Sarah Palin is quality or second-rate, she is potentially new blood that will be part of the future of the republican party.

Posted by: charles ross at August 29, 2008 12:21 PM
Comment #260001

kctim,
“That show Obama’s organizational and strategic capabilities at running a campaign, not a country.”

Fair enough. I think an ability to create, organize, and execute a successful nationwide political campaign is a very good indicator of potential ability to run a country. Obama ran a flawless campaign, and despite long odds, he implemented a superior campaign strategy and defeated Hillary Clinton.

LO,
“Campaigning is not governing,” that is true, but once again, I think it is a very good indicator. So, yeah, I would go so far as to say any candidate who defeated Hillary has made a serious claim to being worthy. That was not just luck.

If McCain can defeat Obama… heh… we’ll see. But McCain’s campaign for the nomination was seriously flawed, despite large amounts of money and early front runner status. He had to resurrect his campaign and finally managed to defeat a very weak field. In July, McCain revamped his failing campaign, brought in a protege of Karl Rove to spearhead his campaign, and in mid-July went negative.

Now it looks like he has selected a very weak candidate for VP. In terms of a conservative biography, she’s a decent up and comer, but she’s miles away from being ready to be VP and being in line for the presidency.

Posted by: phx8 at August 29, 2008 12:24 PM
Comment #260003

Phx8, it’s ironic to the point of being absurd to claim that “she’s miles away from being ready to be VP” when she is actually has a slight advantage in experience over the person that Democrats are saying should not only be VP but PRESIDENT.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 12:29 PM
Comment #260004

Rhinehold:

Guess I’ll have to repeat myself here in response to your racist rant.

I hate to point this out to you Rhinehold, but you have sadly misinterpreted the statement you so abhore.

Ray said racists will not be inspired, not that anyone not inspired is racist. You really have an axe to grind here somehow. Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Same with your other posts about the racist issue. That’s all you seem to glean and pull out of anyone’s posts lately.


Posted by: womanmarine at August 29, 2008 12:35 PM
Comment #260007

My sentiment is this: They are nominating the kind of person for the vice presidency who they weren’t willing to nominate for the main job with constitutional powers that mean something.

Democrats nominated a woman as running mate almost 25 years ago. Hillary Clinton put 18 million cracks in the highest glass ceiling. Had neither of those two Democrats gone first, her choice would be unthinkable. Especially the latter. Look at the slate of candidates they originally fielded, and you’ll get the correct notion that Sarah Palin is an afterthought for McCain and the Republicans.

Sarah Palin’s reform reputation will have to compete with McCain’s non-reform reality. As election day has come closer, McCain has gotten more and more like Bush, and Bush is no example of reform. When the Republicans are finished having their debate about change with themselves, they are welcomed to have their debate with us. We decided quite some time ago what we wanted, and the American people know it.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 29, 2008 12:47 PM
Comment #260008

LO,
Come on. Palin has one and a half years of experience as governor of a state with a small population (47/50), no major urban areas (Anchorage ranks 65), and no agriculture. Unlike Obama, McCain, and Biden, she has ZERO experience serving in a legislature, and ZERO experience with foreign policy, and ZERO experience participating in a nationwide campaign. She did serve on the Wasilla city council, and spent one year in an appointed position on a state commission.

Seriously, that is an awfully thin resume, and she is about to be named the GOP’s VP candidate? Wow.

Posted by: phx8 at August 29, 2008 12:48 PM
Comment #260010

OMG….she just said “nuk-ya-lur” !! and stated that McCain is “the only one here who has truly fought for our freedoms”.
Guess all the other veterans just became disposable. Not very smart, or wise, either one.
Good luck with all that John M.
If you’re thinking that she can pull a lot of Hillary voters, I don’t think that’s likely. Incredible difference in intelligent levels and who would be drawn to this lady.
George W. with long hair………..

Posted by: janedoe at August 29, 2008 12:56 PM
Comment #260011

Her resume is almost the same in “width” as Barack Obama. Look on the map how close Russia is to Alaska. Look on the map how close Canada is to Alaska. They deal with international issues every day. Look on the map how close Illinois is to Russia. How close Illinois is to Canada. You are twisting in the wind if you are going to talk about an experience gap between the Chicago street fighter and the reformist from Alaska.

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 12:57 PM
Comment #260012

shouldn’t you be over in the left column calling anyone who doesn’t support Obama a racist with the rest of your buddies?

Classy as per usual.

Posted by: Max at August 29, 2008 12:59 PM
Comment #260013
Unlike Obama, McCain, and Biden, she has ZERO experience serving in a legislature, and ZERO experience with foreign policy, and ZERO experience participating in a nationwide campaign.

That’s right—she has zero experience as a legislator. But seven years as an executive, and the presidency is an executive position.

Zero experience in foreign policy? So in that, she’s exactly the same as Obama. The difference being that she’s not heading the ticket.

Zero experience in a national campaign? That’s about to change in a major way. Neither did Obama have such experience—until Obama actually did it. Just as Paulin is doing now.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 1:02 PM
Comment #260015

Considering McCain’s alternatives I think Palin wasn’t a bad pick. It at least isn’t Romney who is just plain annoying. She has a compelling personal story with her youngest child born with Downs Syndrome. She would be the second woman on a national ticket as VP. She, other than a firing of an ex-brother-in-law, doesn’t seem to have any skeletons in her closet. I don’t know much about her personally but overall I think it was a good pick.

That being said, I think that while it may help to shore up the core Republicans, I don’t see how a anti-abortion woman helps with disgruntled Hillary supporters or moderates in general.

Let’s see how she does at the convention …

VPs aren’t really all that helpful in an election, she, like Biden, comes from a state that isn’t really in play.

Posted by: tcsned at August 29, 2008 1:08 PM
Comment #260016

Let’s not any of us forget that McCain is old, and has health issues, and if something were to happen to him, she would step up. THAT is really a scary! scary! thought!!!

Posted by: janedoe at August 29, 2008 1:08 PM
Comment #260017

I guess since everyone else is at this point is only speculating and no one really knows much about this lady, I will get my two cents in. I agree with Lee that this most definitely removes the lack of experience factor from the fight. I do not know anything about this person and as a result have no idea if she would be capable of leading a country or not. Given McCains age and if I were voting for him I most certainly would be concerned about her ability to step in if necessary, just the same as many of those on the right have been concerned about Obamas ability to be the big guy. All that given McCain is going to have to present her as a capable individual and somehow in a short time present the evidence to support her credentials.

McCain is obviously going after the female vote and I suspect they may pick up a few. But to be honest if I were a female I would be offended at the patronizing appearance this has. I would be offended because it would appear as an insult to my intelligence in suggesting that I would vote for a woman simply because that is what she is.

A few days will tell us much more about this lady and her abilities. At this point it is just too early to tell what sort of significant if any impact she will have. One thing is for sure, the dynamics of the race have suddenly taken a hard turn. My initial instinct is that it will be to the left.

Posted by: RickIL at August 29, 2008 1:09 PM
Comment #260018
Ray said racists will not be inspired, not that anyone not inspired is racist.

No, that is not what he said. Let me re-requote it again.

There are a few racist out there who will not be inspired but they are not good Americans are they? They belong in Nazi Germany. We defeated that abomination, so they have no country, but they should leave this one. Anyone else has to be inspired.

Anyone else, meaning non-racists, HAS to be inspired. I am not. Therefore, I must be a racist. Don’t worry, I’ll copy this to the other thread where you wrongly stated this as well.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 1:11 PM
Comment #260019
Let’s not any of us forget that McCain is old, and has health issues, and if something were to happen to him, she would step up. THAT is really a scary! scary! thought!!!

R-I-G-H-T! And it doesn’t scare you that if we don’t elect McCain, we’re electing somebody with less governing experience than she does? Just what’s scaring you? That she’s not a hard-left liberal is the only thing that makes sense.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 1:12 PM
Comment #260020

This is great! I love watching the scrambling.

BTW, so we are supposed to be concerned about experience in a position that MAY become president but not concerned about experience in the actual PRESIDENT position?

Fascinating, please, tell me more!

OH, and it gets better. She actually has a history of reform (change) and doesn’t work in Washington, meaning she is an actual oustider. That would make the only one of the 4. She has a son in the Army, so the claim made just this morning by democrats that Biden had the only say in that argument is shot.

All in all, I think that this is a good pick for McCain and the proof is the scrambling going on and the willingness to make McCain’s points about their own candidate against her.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 1:17 PM
Comment #260021

Rhinehold:

You’re determined to read an interpretation that isn’t there, so I certainly can’t stop you. To take it so far says much to me, as do your other posts.

Have at it.

Posted by: womanmarine at August 29, 2008 1:24 PM
Comment #260024

I’m sorry, I can only deal with english. “racists won’t find it inspriring, anyone else will” is taken what other way exactly?

Please, tell me what the ‘Anyone else has to be inspired’ means in this sentance. Give me a logical valid other interpretation, other than Ray miswrote his intention, and I may reconsider.

He didn’t say anyone else might be, or anyone else could be, but anyone else HAS to be.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 1:30 PM
Comment #260025

LO,
Seven years executive experience? You must mean her experience on the Wasilla City Council. Ah, yes. The Wasilla City Council: springboard to the presidency.

Osama knocked it out of the park when he did his foreign policy tour. As soon as McCain or Palin can attract a crowd of 200,000 abroad, just let me know. Obama’s meetings with heads of state went well, and he received rave reviews from those leaders of other countries. He recommended a goal of withdrawal from Iraq by 2011, and his timeline was validated by Al-Maliki. Face it, Obama has already demonstrated the chops to deal effectively with foreign policy.

It should be fun watching the VP debate between Biden and Palin- between one of the most knowledgeable people about foreign policy in our government, with a person who knows nothing.

Tom,
The governor of Alaska does not have foreign policy experience. No governor does. Try again.

Every candidate for president or VP will have some sort of gaps in experience. The problem for Sarah Palin is that she doesn’t have any experience to fill any gaps. One and a half years as a governor really just doesnt’ cut it.

Posted by: phx8 at August 29, 2008 1:42 PM
Comment #260026

phx8,
Again look at the map, count the airbases, think….what you said is illogical. Alaska is different. It is not just some other state. Think, think then speak.

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 1:45 PM
Comment #260027

Wasilla: population 6,500

Tom,
I served as an officer in the Air Force. I have visited Alaska as a civilian. The governor of Alaska has next to nothing to do with the military. Palin is going to be next in line to be commander-in-chief? You must be kidding. She’s utterly unprepared.

Posted by: phx8 at August 29, 2008 1:49 PM
Comment #260028

janedoe,

Your comment- “Let’s not any of us forget that McCain is old, and has health issues, and if something were to happen to him, she would step up. THAT is really a scary! scary! thought!!!” - sounds an awful lot like that of Mark Hanna, a Republican senator who opposed having Theodore Roosevelt on the presidential ticket in 1900. He is said to have warned “That damned cowboy will be one heartbeat from the presidency!” After President McKinley’s assassination he reprised the statement, saying “Now look! That damned cowboy is president!”

The thing is, the more I see about this woman the more she looks like a Roosevelt in a skirt. He, too, had very little national experience- a year as an assistant Secretary of the Navy and only two years as governor of New York. He, too, fought off a corrupt, entrenched, REPUBLICAN political machine, as she has. He was an avid sportsman. She hasn’t faced machine gun fire and is probably not a published ornithologist, but we can’t have everything.

Phx8,

Obama has been groomed by a political machine. His ascension says at least as much about their influence and the media’s Clinton fatigue as it says about his ability to administer a campaign. He is an articulate Democrat who is not a Clinton and burst on the scene barely two years ago. The manner in which he was trumpeted simply for becoming the Democratic candidate for the Senate told me he was being launched by people with high expecations. He’s been mentioned more than any other senator except Hillary ever since. That is connections and buzz, not ability.

Otherwise ordinary people would have a clue where he stands on anything other than change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

Posted by: Lee Jamison at August 29, 2008 1:52 PM
Comment #260029
Seven years executive experience? You must mean her experience on the Wasilla City Council. Ah, yes. The Wasilla City Council: springboard to the presidency.

I think the years as a Mayor probably is what he is talking about…

And Wasilla is about half the size as Obama’s district when he was a state representative…

I’ll tell you what. I’ll agree that she is not experienced enough to be a VP candidate if you can agree that Obama is not experienced enough to run for president.

No?

Hmmmm

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 1:54 PM
Comment #260030

Phx8, to quibble, she was a mayor before she was governor—not just a city council member. I see no problem with mentioning this while Obama is always pumping up his experience as a “community organizer.”

You keep bringing up these totally irrelevant “qualifications” of Obama. Beating Hillary? Attracting a crowd of 200,000 foreigners on foreign soil? I realize why it’s necessary for you to do this and I have no doubt that hard-core liberals and Democrats will agree with you, but that’s not where the election will be won or lost at this point.

Do you suppose Biden would attract such a crowd in Germany—since comparing VPs is really the issue here? And if so, who cares?

The fact remains that Palin is MORE experienced in an executive role than Obama, and she’s not even heading the ticket. Comparing the top of the Democratic ticket to the bottom of the Republican ticket is hardly a winning issue for Obama when Obama is roughly equal if not, objectively speaking, behind Palin in his actual qualifications. Obama will continue to make this case, but he’s walking straight into a trap.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 1:56 PM
Comment #260031

Governing experience of a sparsely populated state? Not a big endorsement!
Now you guys have your backs against the wall with someone who has few credentials to support her position. But it’s cool…something kind of like the sow’s ear/silk purse thing…..

Posted by: janedoe at August 29, 2008 1:56 PM
Comment #260032

phx8,
I was also a USAF Command pilot and flew through Alaska. They deal with international issues every day. Do they execute treaties…no. Do they live with the effect of those treaties, yes. Are they part of the first line of defense, yes. I am not kidding and you are missing the obvious.

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 1:57 PM
Comment #260038

With the latest news reports I have a little more on Palin. The woman has guts. She, as a member of a state commission regulating the oil industry in Alaska, exposed corruption on the part of the state Republican Party Chairman! She also distanced herself from Ted Stevens in advance of the revelations about his questionable dealings with contractors.

There’s more to this lady than meets the eye.

Posted by: Lee Jamison at August 29, 2008 2:11 PM
Comment #260039

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cvn_veepstakes_palin

Posted by: janedoe at August 29, 2008 2:11 PM
Comment #260040

I served as an officer in the Air Force. I have visited Alaska as a civilian. The governor of Alaska has next to nothing to do with the military. Palin is going to be next in line to be commander-in-chief? You must be kidding. She’s utterly unprepared.

Governors are Comanders-In-Chief of their state’s National Guards. They have direct command over any Guard unit that hasn’t been activated by the President. Obviously that’s not much power, but she has more experiance dealing with military issues than Obama does, doesn’t she?

Posted by: TheTraveler at August 29, 2008 2:13 PM
Comment #260041

LO

The fact remains that Palin is MORE experienced in an executive role than Obama, and she’s not even heading the ticket.

GW also had more executive experience than Obama when entering the big show. In judgment of the outcome of his terms would you say that his experience really counted for anything other than pointing out how incredibly naive those who voted for him were?

Posted by: RickIL at August 29, 2008 2:15 PM
Comment #260042

I wonder what the HRC supporters are thinking now? Could it be they will turn to McCain? Dems really have something to worry about now.

Posted by: KAP at August 29, 2008 2:18 PM
Comment #260044

Here’s a small sampling:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/29/ha_say_the_online_hillary_supp.html

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 2:20 PM
Comment #260045

I see why Sarah Palin was chosen after listening to her speech. She referenced how “inspirational” Geraldine Ferraro’s vice-presidential run was and especially Hillary Clinton’s bid for the nomination. A pretty blatant appeal by the McCain Campaign to disaffected Hillary voters (of which I was one)
I have a trivia question for you all. Earlier in the year a question was posed to McCain in a small forum. The question was:
“How do we beat the bitch”, referring, of course, to Hillary.
What was McCain’s immediate response? (Clue: It’s a five word answer).

Posted by: charles ross at August 29, 2008 2:20 PM
Comment #260049

i watched Palin give her introductory speech. She’s very likable and has a great energy about her.

i still don’t know anything about her and will look forward to hearing more and more about her in the coming future.

I saw that she has 20 months experience. i chuckled at that because i remember that as a parent i counted the number of months of my children when they were under two. It’s kind of similar i guess.

In any case this selection smells a little of demographic hunting. It doesn’t sound like she’s bringing any special experience to the team. If you recall all of the blundering heads saying that when Obama chose Biden he was actually choosing Biden because of his lack of credibility with foreign policy matters.

But i think that Obama chose Biden to fill out his team; it looks like McCain chose for demographic reasons.

Posted by: john trevisani at August 29, 2008 2:36 PM
Comment #260052


I don’t think this is such a bad choice for McCain. I do think he should have waited another week to 10 days to announce it.

Posted by: jlw at August 29, 2008 2:45 PM
Comment #260053

But i think that Obama chose Biden to fill out his team; it looks like McCain chose for demographic reasons.

I agree. This one really is a no brainer. I am not implying that the lady has no merit. I simply do not know enough about her yet to form a fair opinion. What I am saying is that this is an obvious effort at pandering to the female vote.

Posted by: RickIL at August 29, 2008 2:45 PM
Comment #260056

Let’s face it.
This country likes attractive, competent women. As an Obama supporter, this pick scares the hell out of me.

Posted by: Schwamp at August 29, 2008 2:51 PM
Comment #260057

so, what’s the answer to my question?

Posted by: charles ross at August 29, 2008 2:53 PM
Comment #260058

Schwamp,
You are wise. I see merit in all 4 candidates. The interesting thing is the VP picks shore up but echo the political weaknesses in their presumed running mates. It will be an interesting, as well, as historic 67 days.

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 2:58 PM
Comment #260065

From the choice of the woefully under-qualified Palin wafts the sweaty stench of pure GOP desperation and fear. I absolutely LOVE IT!!!

Will Hillary’s supporters want to vote for an under-qualified woman who has very obviously been chosen merely as a token? A woman who is totally against abortion? And obviously against birth control also, since she has five children? One of which is an infant who has Down Syndrome, because Palin chose to give birth to the child long after it is considered safe for a woman have children without risking serious birth defects? A woman who after giving birth to that child wrote e-mails to family and friends in the voice of and signed by “Your Heavenly Father”?

Now, I may think that Hillary’s most ardent supporters are a little too emotionally overwrought, and perhaps a bit immature in their inability to deal with their disappointment and anger after her loss in the primary, but I’ve never believed for a moment that the majority of these women were capable of being downright stupid or indeed, completely illogical.
In other words, if some women out there are actually willing to vote for McSame due to the fact that Palin is now in the VP slot, that can only be because they were going to vote for a Clinton presidency simply because Hillary is a woman — and NOT because they agreed with the political positions that Hillary Clinton has been taking for so very many years.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at August 29, 2008 3:09 PM
Comment #260070

Sen. McCain’s choice of Gov. Sarah Palin demonstrates once again his poor judgment. Sen. McCain is elderly and that increases the liklihood of Gov. Palin having to step in as President of the United States. This fact reflects poor judgment on McCain’s part on several levels.

First, Gov. Palin is a first term Governor without the executive experience McCain criticizes Obama for not having. If Sen. Joe Biden has to step up to President, he brings decades of foreign intelligence and foreign diplomacy experience to the office. Not so, with Gov. Palin.

Second, Gov. Palin is a relative unknown outside the Republican inner-circle. She doesn’t bring any competitive edge to his campaign save for the fact that she is a woman. The presumption here is that Gov. Palin’s female status may attract disaffected Hillary supporters.

Apparently, Sen. McCain didn’t watch the Democratic Convention, for if he had, he would have realized that that there are very, very, few disaffected Hillary supporters anymore that can be attracted to the McCain ticket. So, the one important drawing card for choosing Palin, is nullified by the unity found in the DNC’s convention this week. Very poor judgment, here.

Third, given that Gov. Palin brings no economics education or experience to the ticket, nor foreign affairs experience or education, it leaves the distinct impression that Sen. McCain chose her for one, and only one purpose, to broaden his political campaign’s appeal to women voters. If that is the case, is not Sen. McCain putting politics ahead of the needs of the nation, and his personal aspirations ahead of the country?

It would certainly appear so. The hypocrisy of this is enormous as Sen. McCain’s attacks upon Obama were centered on claims that Obama was in this for himself and not the American people. That he was a celebrity, and lacking the experience to lead. McCain’s campaign has alluded to Obama’s meteoric rise in politics as ego based, like that of a rock star or other Hollywood celebrity.

And yet, here is Sen. McCain selecting a V.P. candidate on what appears to be no more than possible political gain based on gender, rather than assets needed by the nation in facing its enormous challenges, created and grown by the Bush Administration and the Republican Congress. To be fair, Gov. Pallin does bring a record of fighting corruption in Alaskan government, to her great credit.

But for nearly all the reasons McCain has criticized Obama for not being ready for the White House, he has selected a VP candidate who lacks the same qualities McCain criticized Obama for. Judgment simply doesn’t get poorer than this. And pales in comparison to Obama’s choice of Sen. Joseph Biden as his VP choice.

This decision by Sen. McCain does highlight the reckless and risky way by which McCain was pegged with the moniker, “maverick”, however. From his days as a rule breaker in the military, to his years of avoiding any education in economics while voting on trillions of dollars of tax payer’s money in Congress, to his siding with Pres. Bush 9 times out of 10 on failed policy and administration, the word “maverick” fits Sen. John McCain quite well. A maverick is not to be relied upon, trusted, or counted on in a pinch.

The pinch was on in this election campaign, and his VP choice cannot possibly avoid frustrating large factions of the Republican Party constituents who would have preferred a Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, or Mitt Romney with stature and proven experience. It was a poor judgment call indeed if Republican turnout this November is lower than hoped for and expected.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2008 3:16 PM
Comment #260072
And obviously against birth control also, since she has five children? One of which is an infant who has Down Syndrome, because Palin chose to give birth to the child long after it is considered safe for a woman have children without risking serious birth defects?Wow, well, my wife (and I) is strongly pro-choice, but I guess when we say pro-choice, we mean them all, not just the one.

She is also 38 and we are working to have a child. I guess we are selfish a-holes because we might have a down’s syndrome child. At least we will have that choice, as opposed being told we can’t because the new ‘healthcare system’ won’t support it…

Instead of just saying ‘Interesting choice but her policies are counter to what we believe’ and letting it die down, it appears the smearing just has to come out. :/ Keep up the good work, VV.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 3:18 PM
Comment #260073

In other words, if some women out there are actually willing to vote for McSame due to the fact that Palin is now in the VP slot, that can only be because they were going to vote for a Clinton presidency simply because Hillary is a woman — and NOT because they agreed with the political positions that Hillary Clinton has been taking for so very many years.

VV

Your absolutely correct in your proclamation. As I stated earlier. Any women who were voting for Hillary on her credentials and party principles will most likely feel patronized at the implication that they are stupid enough to switch sides just because McCain chose a woman. I obviously am not a woman. But if the situation were reversed I would be offended at the implication.

Posted by: RickIL at August 29, 2008 3:19 PM
Comment #260074
First, Gov. Palin is a first term Governor without the executive experience McCain criticizes Obama for not having.

Erm, 6 years is more than none. In fact, she has more executive experience than McCain.

Second, Gov. Palin is a relative unknown outside the Republican inner-circle.

If Obama had nominated her you would call that a positive.

Third, given that Gov. Palin brings no economics education or experience to the ticket, nor foreign affairs experience or education, it leaves the distinct impression that Sen. McCain chose her for one, and only one purpose, to broaden his political campaign’s appeal to women voters. If that is the case, is not Sen. McCain putting politics ahead of the needs of the nation, and his personal aspirations ahead of the country?

You ignore everything presented already and make an assumption, then base your point on that assumption. Straw Man much?

BTW, I predict that by Monday, McCain will be leading in the Rasmussen daily tracking poll. Anyone willing to take bets?

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 3:23 PM
Comment #260076

David, Obama has LESS experience than Palin in nearly every category except speech-making and cult-founding, and has exactly the same amount of foreign policy experience—zero. No amount of Obama-worship can obscure these facts.

The difference being that Palin is not heading the ticket, and if something happened to McCain, by then she would either HAVE the necessary foreign policy experience or be able to bring aboard a VP who did. With Obama, we’d be starting on DAY ONE with a person who has no foreign policy experience. Don’t fall into blind Obama-worship and deny reality.

Of course, I’m sure that many Obama-worshippers will maintain that giving speeches in foreign countries or staging photo-ops overseas is real foreign policy experience. Good luck with that. If that’s all you want, Palin could take a week or so to do exactly the same thing, and it would be equally meaningless.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 3:24 PM
Comment #260081

Palin was not a surprise for me - I called it last week (but not on this forum).

No, she does NOT have as much experience as Obama. She was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, a town of 5500 people, before she was elected governor of Alaska, and she has just over 1-1/2 years as governor.

Has she made any trips at all overseas in an official capacity? Possibly, but I doubt it.

Does she have experience helping disadvantaged people in the inner city? Does she have experience at all with Congress?

No, the only reason McCain picked her is NOT because of her beliefs or her skill, but for her gender. Not only that, but if McCain cared much for her readiness to be president, he would have picked longtime congresswoman Kay Bailey Hutchinson from Texas.

Apparently, McCain chose her for the same reason he chose his wife (and left his disfigured first wife) - for her looks.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at August 29, 2008 3:33 PM
Comment #260084

Glenn,

The fact that she is a proven reformer, took on her own party while cleaning up her state and shares his view on being a ‘Maverick’ (whether you agree he is or not) had nothing to do with it then?

yeah, must just be her looks. Of course, I bet she hasn’t had to deal with that before.

I’ll remember that it’s just the Republicans that are ok with smearing people.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 3:40 PM
Comment #260085

I guess David doesn’t beleive the polls on diseffected Hillary supporters. Details seem to escape the Dems. btw Palin visited the wounded in Germany BEFORE Obama bailed on a similar scheduled trip.

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 3:40 PM
Comment #260087

Tom,

I was sure a democrat in another column said that she has never left the country, which one is right?

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 3:42 PM
Comment #260088

Glenn, that’s just precious. McCain only picked Palin for her gender and looks? Really?

And how interesting that you’d trot out a vicious sexist attack by asserting that a successful woman is getting by on her looks. Typical liberal hypocrisy. Kind of how all that liberal talk about sexual harassment in the eighties and nineties went straight out the window when a Democratic president was caught with his pants around his ankles with a subordinate intern who was young enough to be his daugher.

I suppose also that if Obama weren’t black, somebody with his background and experience would have been nominated? Give us a break with this talk of tokenism.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 29, 2008 3:43 PM
Comment #260100

Rhinehold,
Quote under picture from Reuters:

Gov. Sarah Palin visits Army Private James Pattison during a morale tour at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, Landstuhl , Germany, July 26, 2007.
(U.S. Air Force/Airman First Class Kenny Holston/Handout/Reuters)

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 3:53 PM
Comment #260103

Tom Besly, I guess you don’t even read the polls with any understanding. 80% of Democrats in the polls support Obama. Kerry had 89%. If you think this weeks convention isn’t going to up that 80% figure, well, I will leave it to others to complete the sentence.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2008 3:57 PM
Comment #260104

Rhinehold, I will take your bet on the average of polls on Monday. Obama ahead by 3.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2008 4:00 PM
Comment #260108

David R.
Sorry…I read the polls “with understanding”. The issue was Hillary supporters and the poll I was talking about, before the Palin announcement, was that 27% of Hillary supporters would vote for McCain. The question in my mind is will the number go up. Bets here say it will. Dems are sure it won’t but they have been wrong before.

Posted by: Tom Besly at August 29, 2008 4:02 PM
Comment #260109

David,

Only 74% of the Democrats polled say that the Convention united the party. And the number 80% you get, I don’t see those same numbers, it was more like 65-72% in the polls I’ve seen. I don’t think they will be above Kerry’s at all.

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/74_of_democrats_say_convention_has_unified_them

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 4:02 PM
Comment #260112
in Alaska, the 44-year old Governor and hockey mom earns good or excellent ratings from 64% of voters statewide. Just 14% say she is doing a poor job. In a state whose senior Republican Senator has been indicted for ethical violations, 84% say Palin is at least as ethical as most politicians. Most (51%) say she’s more ethical than her peers
Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 4:07 PM
Comment #260113

She went to Kuwait in 2007.

Posted by: LawnBoy at August 29, 2008 4:10 PM
Comment #260116
She is also 38 and we are working to have a child. I guess we are selfish a-holes because we might have a down’s syndrome child.

Could well be. If I were you I’d want to look at the statistics and then carefully weigh and consider the wisdom in that going forward. But then that’s me — Morally Upright Progressive Democrat and Confirmed Happy Heathen. I happen to be a firm believer in my own good sense, and in Science, when I’m weighing and considering something very serious and potentially life altering such as that — rather than simply hope for the best, or put my trust in the delusion of a “Heavenly Father” who knows what is best.
Besides, when it comes to children, there are already lots of them out there who are without parents and who need lots of love and a good home to call their own.

I don’t see those same numbers, it was more like 65-72% in the polls I’ve seen. I don’t think they will be above Kerry’s at all.

Important to remember that Polls only measure “likely voters” — people who voted in the last elections. They don’t count brand new voters, or those who stopped voting and who are now newly registered to vote for Obama in the coming election. They also don’t count those who use cell phones, only those with land line telephones.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at August 29, 2008 4:14 PM
Comment #260119

VV,

Being a Taoist and my wife being a Wiccan, I don’t think we are worried too much about an invisible man in the sky, but thanks for the assumption.

And we have weighed our options. Which is what we should be able to do. But it is just a matter of time before that choice is going to have to be taken away if we have a national healthcare system.

As for polling, I’m sure that the most accurate polling firm hasn’t considered cell phones at all. I guess we should just call it for Obama then, why keep wasting time?

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 4:21 PM
Comment #260125

Rhinehold, look for them. Opening one’s eyes can be very revealing. 80% is the polling figure. You must be reading a Fox News poll.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2008 4:31 PM
Comment #260135

When you really look at it folks, McCain’s choice of Palin is cynicism at its worst.

Obviously, her gender has something to do with her selection. She has no presidential campaign behind her to justify that, no long resume or prominence in the party. The Republicans have made repeated, outright overtures towards Hillary voters, and he just happens to chose a woman as Vice President. Hillary Clinton put 18 million Cracks in the glass ceiling, but she did it with her own blood sweat and tears. To compare this woman’s ascendance to Hillary is to not give Clinton nearly enough credit for her hard work.

Her career experience is not the reason for her selection. She’s halfway through her first term, a term that pales even next to Barack Obama’s twelve year career as an elected official. She can claim executive experience, but nowhere near as much as Bush or Clinton. That’s quite a big hop up, to be a heartbeat away from being leader of the free world.

And truth be told, she was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it. She only shut down the bridge projects in question when she found out the federal government wasn’t going to pay for it.

Additionally, Alaska still ranks first in the nation for earmark spending. No thanks, federal government? More like, come around back so nobody can see you.

Did I mention she was endorsed in 2006 by now indicted Alaska Senator Ted Stevens?

She has no foreign policy experience, but seems to toe the standard Republican line there. Her environmental policy is waiting for wolves to fall off the endangered species list so she can hunt them from helicopters, and blocking measures to protect Polar Bears from the threat of Global Warming, which she doesn’t consider a threat.

And of course, she’s a big fan of drilling in ANWR, of continuing the fossil fuel drilling instead of pursuing alternatives.

She’s a Pat Buchanan conservative, which undoubtedly makes the Right very happy, but which begs the question: isn’t the right on the decline at the moment? If you’re going to rely on your base, make sure they aren’t down by ten points from last time.

By the end of the next week, the bloom will be off this rather telegenic rose, and then Republicans will ask themselves why somebody didn’t get a better choice for VP to run with Mccain.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 29, 2008 4:48 PM
Comment #260144

Stephen, great analysis. Thanks for pointing out that Palin is absolutely Horrendous on Environmental issues. Come to think of it, that may not sit well at all with the younger generation of Evangelicals, despite her pro-birth stance.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at August 29, 2008 4:59 PM
Comment #260145

Rhinehold-
Obama’s tracking poll numbers have jumped up to 49-41.

LO-
When all other explanations (experience, a powerful campaign performance during the primaries, leadership in a major organization) are eliminated, her telegenic appearance and the superficial cleanliness of her resume are the only reasons that really favor her.

Just because you don’t automatically assume that she’s being selected for her looks doesn’t mean it’s automatically ruled out. After all, McCain would feel pressure to get a younger, telegenic, ostensibly less Washington-contaminated candidate, and a women, given the fact that we had both kinds of candidates seriously running.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 29, 2008 4:59 PM
Comment #260153

Stephen,

Not according to Rassmussen, the most accurate of the polling firms out there.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows Barack Obama attracting 46% of the vote nationwide while John McCain earns 43%.

I’ll still keep that bet.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 29, 2008 5:08 PM
Comment #260157
Her career experience is not the reason for her selection. She’s halfway through her first term, a term that pales even next to Barack Obama’s twelve year career as an elected official.

She has more public office experience than Obama, Stephen. You count his state senate experience and leave out her mayoral experience and city council as well?

And, if I remember correctly, she’s running as VP, not President… How do those numbers stack up against McCain, if you find them important, Stephen…

Posted by: rhinehold at August 29, 2008 5:11 PM
Comment #260167

She’s only held state-wide office since her election as governor. Obama held it for the first eight years of his political career.

If that is the experience McCain believes is sufficient to run our country, then he has no business having beat Obama up over it these past few months.

I’ll tell you what’s really happening: McCain knows that Obama is winning, so he’s going to get a young reformer on his ticket in hopes of catching that wind in his sails, and he’s going to make it a woman in order to attract Hillary supporters. All this crap about experience is thereby made into hypocrisy. McCain was trying to win one way, now he’s going to try to win another.

Obama, by comparison, decided early what he was, and hasn’t needed much redefinition since then.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 29, 2008 5:29 PM
Comment #260169

Rhinehold

Palin “has 6 years of executive experience (mayor and governor)”

Did you have your tongue in your cheek when you wrote that? Mayor of a “city” of 6500 and less than 2 years as gov of Alaska??? Are you kidding me?

Posted by: RMD at August 29, 2008 5:33 PM
Comment #260181

The Rasmussen Poll was held during the three days of the convention. The impact of that speech, watched by 38 million people, is unknown as of yet.

Meanwhile, read this one Alaskan’s perspective on the whole thing. being mayor of a city of 8,000 and a governor not halfway through your first term doesn’t sound like great qualifications.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 29, 2008 6:03 PM
Comment #260188

More on the trooper problem.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 29, 2008 6:16 PM
Comment #260192

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/

And don’t be silly Stephen. The squeaky clean R’s would never consider involving themselves with anyone hiding a shady past.

Posted by: janedoe at August 29, 2008 6:36 PM
Comment #260197

RMD, Rhinehold is known to rely on unreliable information sources. The polls he looks at show less than 70% of Democrats support Obama. Pretty much says it all.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2008 6:47 PM
Comment #260200

Rhinehold said: “Only 74% of the Democrats polled say that the Convention united the party”

But that was not the polling question we were discussing. Now you are changing the poll question to try defend your statement.

Did it occur to you that the other 26% may have thought the Party was already united or didn’t know? Of course not. What your comment reflects is a lack of understanding of empirical measures in statistics and probability. BTW, what were the reliability and validity factors associated with this new poll question you now refer to?

The company name means nothing, the reliability and validity factors published with the poll tell you how valid the polling question and methodology were. I don’t have any reason to suspect these factors, but, typically, daily tracking polls rely on a very biased and very, very small sample size. Was it likely voters, anyone over 18, or registered voters responding to the survey.

These are important questions to ask before accepting poll results, especially political poll results designed to capture headlines rather than necessarily creating accuracy in measurement. The most accurate polls are usually private and usually kept secret, paid for by the campaigns or parties for internal strategy and tactic sessions.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2008 6:54 PM
Comment #260229

David

Rhinehold forgot about the two years Palin spent as president of the PTA, so actually she has 8 years of executive experience.

Posted by: RMD at August 29, 2008 8:13 PM
Comment #260252

“Obama created and organized a political campaign” pdx8, do you really believe that? Do you understand that other people have actually been doing those things for BHO all along during his whole career, including organizing the fundraising? He’s just the attractive product, not the producer.

Palin is more connected to the real world than any of the other candidates, and could appeal in the Pacific Northwest. She also might know the price of bread and milk. A former classmate of HRC’s just told me that Palin might get him to vote for JMcC, and he didn’t think he would ever say that. Of course, we both live in Illinois, and I’m counting those electoral votes as 21 out of BHO’s 38 electoral votes.

“Chicago street fighter” Tom Besly, thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: ohrealy at August 29, 2008 9:08 PM
Comment #260280

ohrealy-

“Obama created and organized a political campaign” pdx8, do you really believe that?

No, he just blurts out whatever random thoughts come to mind. These just happened to form a coherent thought by sheer coincidence. The spooky thing is that a great many of us do the same thing by some wierd coincidence. I think it’s related to the Cthulhu cult.

Do you understand that other people have actually been doing those things for BHO all along during his whole career, including organizing the fundraising? He’s just the attractive product, not the producer.

Does he understand that? Actually, after a mind reading session with him, he revealed to me that Obama was taught by a ninja named Uzumaki Naruto to perform the Shadow Clone Technique. Unfortunately, they have a tendency to disappear in a cloud of smoke when hit hard.

Seriously, on that point, there is a middle ground. There does happen to be an alternative: Obama and his people cooperate, With Obama in charge of many people, along with his consultants.

Palin is more connected to the real world than any of the other candidates, and could appeal in the Pacific Northwest.

Yes, she has regular visits with Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity of the resistance. As for Appeal in the Northwest? Well, if you want to make broad generalizations like that, go ahead. It’s entertaining for the rest of us.

She also might know the price of bread and milk. A former classmate of HRC’s just told me that Palin might get him to vote for JMcC, and he didn’t think he would ever say that. Of course, we both live in Illinois, and I’m counting those electoral votes as 21 out of BHO’s 38 electoral votes.

She knows the price of bread and milk? Why so do I! And I know the reason she can give tax breaks to her people is that the fuel that makes the bread and milk more expensive is pumped out of wells in her state!

It’s interesting that you know a former classmate of HRC’s. I never knew you had such close proximity to her. It would explain some things.

Seriously, I’m not that impressed. She’s not two years in office and already she’s in trouble over something. Her vaunted 80% ratings have slipped to 67%, and even many people in Alaska are puzzled about the choice.

Frankly, I think her nomination as running mate was a desperate act, and a deeply political one, as she doesn’t have the depth in political, professional, or military experience to justify such an elevation.

The irony here is that McCain has selected a person for whom every stereotypical criticism of Barack Obama as a candidate is actually accurate. She is inexperienced, having only quarter of Obama’s state-level experience and none of Obama’s national track record. She is an absolute unknown for most Americans, whose track record hides some truly troubling issues (as I’ve laid out). Obama’s story has actually been in nationally published book form since 1995, known on the national stage since his triumphant keynote address at the previous convention. She only came out of obscurity less than two years ago.

Some interesting things may have come to light. Apparently, She left the town she was mayor of about 20 million dollars in debt, and the effect that’s had has been described as pretty bad.

You talked many times about Obama and how there were hidden skeletons in his closet. Well, this is what having real skeletons in your closet actually looks like.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 29, 2008 11:07 PM
Comment #260298

Stephen, take some advice from a grey haired guy, and have a beer and relax. I feel badly for you because you have too much invested in your guy. I don’t know you, but I feel that I understand you after these years at watchblog. This is a fairly intimate forum. You’re about where I was with McGovern in 72. No one that I knew, believed that he would lose.

I’ve participated many years longer at a different site, where one small forum has 2 million views of 4000 pages with 60,000 posts, which I guess is now owned by NBC, so I have a habit of writing rather noisily. I don’t know who will buy watchblog, but I don’t think it will be as multipartisan after.

I’m here in Park Ridge drinking Old Milwaukee, when I usually only drink imported. The classmate is a Libertarian who refers to HRC as a geek. She wasn’t one of the cool kids, smoking and toking.

Remember, I’m not hurting you. I’m making you stronger. This year, I feel sorriest for Michelle Obama. I understand the psychology involved, but it’s a sad situation. On skeletons, I couldn’t even believe my eyes and ears with one of the speakers at the convention, whom I met campaigning with his Mom and dog and Jan Schakowsky. We’ll see what happens.

Posted by: ohrealy at August 30, 2008 12:17 AM
Comment #260335

ohrealy

Grey hair and old milwaukee. Careful dude you are painting a picture of yourself many don’t want to see. I suppose your smokes are rolled up in your shirt sleeve to. :) Just kidding of course. I have really grown accustomed to Mexican beers myself. Mainly Corona and Modello. I have a difficult time anymore getting up the ambition to suck down a bud or miller.

As a contradiction the only views that have changed with any great degree for me have been confidence related. The more I learn about government the more I realize it is a lesson in futility. Each passing year creates a new level of skepticism. It really seems nothing more than a series of oscillating terms each one serving to partially balance out the injustices of the previous term.

Posted by: RickIL at August 30, 2008 9:05 AM
Comment #260356

RickIl, I don’t even want to see my own reflection in the mirror any more. Believe me, the old milwaukee wasn’t my purchase. We have so many foreign beers here, especially from Poland, that I could get a different beer every time and never try them all. The only ones that I haven’t bought are the Belgian beers, which are $4 for a small bottle.

BTW, I recently bought another used IBM thinkpad, loaded 10GB of music and videos, and then got the blue screen of death and had to wipe the hard drive and start over, but I like it even better than my old one now. I’ll be downloading all weekend.

On the topic, Palin seems to understand the limits of government. It’s tempting to accept money from the Federal government for useless projects. In FL, when leaving the Senate after 18 years to become governor, Lawton Chiles brought home a huge project that nobody wanted, and felt embarrassed, but he did it because he thought FL should “get their fare share” or people would say he hadn’t represented their interests well.

Posted by: ohrealy at August 30, 2008 11:27 AM
Comment #260376

ohrealy-
Oh, I registered my share of political posts on non-political sites. Hated it, in the end. Arguing politics on the internet tends to get it reduced to shouting matches. I like this place for its policy. Took a lot of the BS out of argument here, and got people focused on substance.

I wish the anti-spam measures could be reconfigured to allow more links. I like researching points in depth. When Some Republicans claimed that Democrats were getting 92% of their money from people donating more than a million in the last election, and that Republicans were getting 62% of their funds from those donating less than 200, I looked at the information and found they were conflating the shares of a particular bracket (that is, one party got so much, the other party got so much), with the amount of their total money that they got from it.

That’s what I like to do, the detective work that lands me on nice solid ground. There are many ways to win an argument in the short term, but only a few to get it right in the long term.

I’m not as much an idealist as I seem. I know what goes on in politics, but I’ve come to a conclusions: sometimes, there is no other practical path BUT to seek the ideal. The trick of it is, corruption often comes when disillusionment leads people towards learned helplessness. Cynicism becomes its own special form of naivete, as those who could help change their lives for the better opt out of the system, and thereby give control to those who aren’t so concerned with results.

I believe that to keep corruption to a minimum, you must apply constant pressure. At the end of the day, the acceptance of corruption is as bad as its commission.

My calculation with Obama is that we are in a position as Democrats, that if the right sort of leader comes along, the political shift towards the needed liberalism will happen sooner, rather than later. I believe Obama to be that kind of leader, whether by accident, or otherwise. But he carries another advantage that the calculating part of my nature takes notice of:

All these big rallies that Obama critics deride as celebrity events are actually dual purpose, not just media photo-ops. The 80K+ crowd at Obama’s acceptance speech on Thursday got in on the condition that they volunteer on his behalf or give them information. Obama’s organization is doing something with all the attention its getting, not merely trying to make him look good.

Additionally, he’s supporting expansion of the party past its present territories, firming up our advantage. As a Democrat who has kept close track of the Netroots movement and Democratic politics, it strikes me as a crucial means of taking advantage of the mood of the nation.

McCain is thinking in terms of photo-ops alone. McCain is fighting perceptions, fighting public sentiment, and with this new VP pick, even fighting his own rhetoric. And I think Obama’s going to beat him on that.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 30, 2008 1:16 PM
Comment #260446

ohrealy

Don’t feel bad, I put a towel over my mirror when shaving so I don’t have to look at myself. They tell me the back of my head reflects sunlight and my dog likes to sit in the shadow of my gut at noon on hot days. How’s that for a picture? ;-) Perhaps you could recommend a good polish beer. I am always looking to try new brews. I am not a fan of most dark beers. I do like Hacker pshor, Blue moon, Amstel light, that kind of stuff.

Posted by: RickIL at August 30, 2008 9:51 PM
Comment #260461

RickIL, Tyskie, http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/tyskie-gronie/4989/ is the most popular Polish beer here, oddly enough, it’s owned by SABMiller, the largest beer company in the world until Anheuser Busch was bought by ImBev, but Poland seems to have a lot of microbreweries. Many of the names are unpronounceable and unspellable, like Wyjiec?, others comes in grades from light to dark, with different alcohol contents.

On JMcC, he has to reach independants and libertarians to win. They will likely trend more towards him as more people tire of BHO’s rhetoric.

Posted by: ohrealy at August 30, 2008 11:32 PM
Comment #260521

ohrealy

Thanks for the beer recommendation. I have taken note and will have to see if I can find it out here. Being a college town there are lots of liquor stores. If not here I would imagine I can find it over in the Geneva, Batavia area.

I agree that McCain needs indies and libertarians. I also think Obama needs them. I find most independents to be a bit more informed and educated politically than your average straight major party voter. I think this will fair better for Obama because he actually has a vision of a way to a more responsible future. That and the Palin choice by McCain. Anyone with any knowledge into government can not seriously believe that the woman is ready to step into the VP position. As responsible voters the majority of indies will view Obama as the better choice. That and they don’t want to be caught being blamed again for being the deciding factor in another Bush plunder. Four more years of Bush policy would simply ruin their rep as responsible voters making it even more difficult for them to form any kind of competitive national party. I am not sure what to think about libertarians, but I can see them leaning McCains way because they seem to feel as though Obama would mandate how they live their lives. I find that a bit absurd in that I just don’t see it happening. But I guess if one worries about such things it can be an understandable priority.

Posted by: RickIL at August 31, 2008 12:33 PM
Comment #260590

Based on the Sunday morning shows, and a news conference, I think that JMcC’s plan is just to look and act presidential from now until the election.

Posted by: ohrealy at August 31, 2008 6:39 PM
Comment #260610

Sure hope he uses Dubya as a pattern, ohrealy!

Posted by: janedoe at August 31, 2008 8:01 PM
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