Republicans & Conservatives: Archives

Unfortunately, this is a major problem with our immigration system. The laws need to be changed so that the children of illegal immigrants are themselves illegal immigrants, otherwise we’ll have these endless chain reactions.

Now you can come here illegally, give birth to a child (with your hospital bills paid courtesy of the American taxpayers) who is automatically considered a full US citizen. Then you begin arguing why you, your spouse, and eventually your parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins all need to live in the US too.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at August 20, 2007 10:39 PM

Man, that VOA story is an example of lazy reporting. What church gave her sancturary? How long has she been in the country? Who sponsored the rally? How many people were there? How did the INS know she was there? Most of these details are not hard to learn.

Anyway, here’s a much better story from the Chicago Tribune.

Posted by: Gerrold at August 20, 2007 10:43 PM

Mexico is a great place to live … because they are supporting our immigration issues and allowing the citizens that need state help to find work in the U.S. What would be their entitlement problem are largely our mouths to feed until we fix the problem. Hopefully in 2009 we’ll see progress here from one part or the other.

Posted by: Honest at August 20, 2007 10:52 PM

LO,

Actually, it seems you’d have to amend the Constitution to void the citizenship rights of people born here, not just change the law. SCOTUS has already ruled that children of illegal aliens born here already pass the two tests: being born here and being under U.S. jurisdiction.

Frankly, taking that right away makes me uncomfortable. Remember the Fourteenth Amendment was passed to kill the notion that Blacks could not be citizens. We had the good fortune to be born here; I hate the notion of introducing lineage.

Posted by: Gerrold at August 20, 2007 11:01 PM

Breaking up families.Three cheers for compasionate conservatism !

LO
Just exactly what did YOU do to become an American citizen other than be born here?

Posted by: BillS at August 20, 2007 11:09 PM

Gerrold, I agree we really don’t need to amend the constitution. We should enforce the laws though. This woman entered the country illegally twice and evaded a deportation order for ten years. She has now been deported again and hopefully will never be allowed legal entry now as it is obvious she has no respect for the laws of the United States.

Shall we also go into the cases of the NJ murder victims of an illegal alien? Or how about this list?

I think that it is well beyond time to enforce the laws first, and then deal with looking at our immigration laws second.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 20, 2007 11:13 PM

LO…you might want to read this again…it comes up every time illegal immigration is the subject.
http://federalistblog.us/2005/12/birthright_citizenship_fable.html

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at August 20, 2007 11:14 PM

BillS,

We do it ALL the time when we put US Citizens in jail for breaking the law. Why should this woman be given special treatment for violating the laws twice and evading a deportation order for ten years?

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 20, 2007 11:15 PM

Jack said: “Our society has come to revere victims.”

That sure was a hyperbolic statement. And all along Republicans have said we revere success. Success and victim seem to be antithetical. Which is true? I personally think success is far more revered in our society than being a victim.

This recommendation of this article of yours Jack, I happen to agree with entirely. What I object to is your callous portrayal of this woman’s plight and that of her son’s. I have been to Mexico several times, along the border, and yes, it is pretty bad if you walk down some of the side streets off the main thoroughfare.

I see no hypocrisy nor dissonance in both demanding that we uphold the rule of law and prevent hordes (meaning millions) of people to flaunt our laws and come and go as they please from our nation, AND maintaining our sensitivity and compassion for folks who feel driven to circumstances such as Elvira Arellano finds herself in.

I believe she should be sent back. I regret what that means for her and possibly her son. I regret that American resources are not sufficient to take all who wish to come here to live. I don’t regret however, that persons who violate the laws of a host nation, are subject to punitive measures for breaking those laws. I believe breaking unjust laws is a moral obligation and imperative. But, I also believe that when one breaks them, one has the obligation to accept the consequences whether they choose to or not.

I cannot imagine going to another country, violating their laws, and then attending a demonstration to reverse the law I broke. That, in my opinion is the height of stupidity and folly if one is not prepared to suffer the consequences of such action. Elvira Arellano deserves to be deported. She brought the decision as to what to do with her American citizen son, upon herself.

Yet, as a parent, I can empathize what she must be going through. She gambled and she lost. Just as the miner owner in Utah gambled on the danger of exit mining, and lost. All people gamble. When one buys insurance, one gambles on experiencing an insured loss. It would be foolish to pay premiums if you believed you wouldn’t experience an insured loss. Folks have to be held accountable for their gambling. We all gamble. Just on different outcomes and risk levels.

But, as gamblers all, we should not lose our sense of empathy for those who gamble and lose on a better life for themselves and their children. That is a gamble we all partake in, one way or another, through a host of decisions in our lives (career choice, selection of friends, partners, and mates).

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 12:39 AM

The best way to enforce the law is to concentrate on the employers wheither they are consertative Republican owners of a construction company or yuppy liberals just hiring a maid.

Every candidate for Congress and the presidency should be asked every day of the campaign if they are going to go after the employers.

I am against the illegal immigrations because it puts Americans out of work and drives down the wages of most of us.

I have a hard time understanding why many Republicans are against it though. Bill Clinton signed NAFTA but it was crafted by the Reagan and Bush I Administrations. For all intents, NAFTA created one big country from the Panama Canal to the Artic Circle. Now the wealthy land owners in Mexico and Central American have a place to send their excess citizens and a new source of revenue. Things are quiter down there now, not to many revolutions.

Posted by: jlw at August 21, 2007 12:49 AM

“Things are quiter down there now, not to many revolutions.”

it would seem that they have moved the revolution… northward.

Posted by: diogenes at August 21, 2007 12:57 AM

BillS said: “Breaking up families.Three cheers for compasionate conservatism !”

HogWash !!! Elvira Arellano has a choice to make, take her son back to Mexico with her, or, leave him with trusted folks here in the U.S. It is a choice she created for herself. It is a choice which I as a parent have much empathy and compassion for her in making it. I cannot imagine a more difficult choice for a parent to make.

But, I am no conservative, nor Republican. I am an American citizen who believes in the rule of law, and each individual assuming the responsibility and consequences of that law by their actions to abide by it or violate it.

I don’t buy your criticism of Republicans as heartless or lacking in compassion for their desire to see our laws enforced. Now, I grant you, many Republicans are not truly committed to upholding our rule of law, GW Bush comes to mind, DeLay, Enron’s CEO, planned parenthood bombers, and many more. But, the same can be said of some Democrats like Rep. Jefferson, Bill Clinton on truth telling under oath, etc. But, the exceptions do not make the rule.

Many law abiding and upholding Republicans have left the Republican Party in recent years to join the ranks of Independents demanding better of politicians and government. They are neither lacking in compassion, nor desire for consistent and fair application of the rule of law.

Elvira Arellano broke the law. She assumed the consequences for breaking it the day she broke it. I feel for her, but, I am not about to abrogate our rule of law Constitutional government out of empathy for the difficult circumstances she chose to put herself and her son in.

There is a ratio here, or rational, argument to be made here, in which the rule of law is by far, more important than the plight of one woman who chose to break it. That law regarding legal entry into our country was neither unfair, imprudent, nor harsh. Elvira Arellano may believe her cause is more important than our Constitutional system, but, she would be irrational to think so.

We can empathize with her emotional parental desire to provide better for her son than she could in Mexico. But, that is not a rational argument in defense of not having to assume the consequences of breaking a host nation’s laws.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 12:57 AM

This is the one issue that I disagree with the Green Party and ‘liberals’ in general the most. Simply put we cannot allow our borders to be porous. The amazing thing, to me, is that very very few progressives are willing to stand up and say that being weak on illegal immigration hurts labor and hurts working Americans. I don’t know why the Green Party and the Democratic Party, both thought to be on the left, cannot understand that if they actually crackdown on these companies that hire illegal immigrants and crackdown on illegal immigrants themselves that working Americans and organized labor will come and cheer them on greatly. Too bad its never gonna happen.

Posted by: Richard Rhodes at August 21, 2007 01:04 AM

jlw, you are ignoring the vast underground economy which can still employ millions of illegal immigrants. Going after legal employers, does nothing to stem the tide from seeking employment with illegal employers ranging from upper middle class parents hiring nannies off the books to the drugs, prostitution, gambling, and shake down employers, not to mention the ever burgeoning industries in identity theft and fraud to access other people’s money.

In fact, basic economics would indicate that shutting illegal immigrants out of work with legitimate employers, will only increase the demand for and thus, the willingness to work for, lower wages in the illegal employment underground economy. In a real sense creating a demand driven growth in illegal activity throughout our country.

This is why an enforceable border barrier that blocks 90 or more percent of illegal immigrants from even trying to cross is as essential to solving the illegal immigration problem as going after registered employers is.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 01:05 AM

you’re on point tonight, david…

only, stemming the flow of illegals is surely one of *the single most important problems* facing us. going after employers is of the *second*, but substantially less important tier.

these employers certainly should be punished, starting with the largest and most reprehensible violators, and working on down to those who employ illegal maids…

but when a patient is lying bleeding to death on the operating table, you don’t waste much time assessing the cause and prescribing post trauma medication…. until you have first stopped the bleeding!!!!!

it is these complacent, covetous, and complicit politicians who all fairly well intend on bleeding us to death, who would have us first bicker and squabble over the most minute details of how to entirely and ultimately cure our condition before making any action, whatsoever.

Posted by: diogenes at August 21, 2007 01:29 AM

Elvira Arellano, the illegal immigrant activist recently arrested in Los Angeles and deported to Mexico is far from the typical poor immigrant mother. She had been claiming sanctuary in a Chicago Church to avoid deportation since early 2006. Though much of the media attention has been focused on her recent deportation back to Mexico, this illegal immigrant has done fairly well for herself.
She formed and headed the United Latino Family organization in Chicago which lobbies Congress for immigrant rights. It is claimed that there are more than three million U.S.-born children that could face separation from their illegal parents through deportation in the United States. This organization fights for the rights of those children and their illegal alien parents. Perhaps, the estimated three million figure is correct. Yet this poses a serious problem. According to estimates based upon Census figures there were approximately six million illegal aliens in the United States in 2000. This would lead one to believe, then, that illegal immigrant men wishing to provide for their families are not simply moving back and forth across the border for employment purposes as some from the “unconcerned crowd” have implied, but rather they are bringing and starting families here in America. This is supported by documentation on illegal immigration found at the website:
statemaster.com
According to figures, thirty-eight of the fifty states have illegal immigrant populations of ten thousand or more. The top ten states as of 2000 were listed as follows:
1 California 2,209,000
2 Texas 1,041,000
3. New York 489,000
4. Illinois 432,000
5. Florida 337,000
6. Arizona 283,000
7. Georgia 228,000
8. New Jersey 221,000
9. North Carolina 206,000
10. Colorado 144,000
It is interesting that only three of the top ten states having the highest concentration of illegal immigrants actually border Mexico. As an Illinoisan, I was somewhat astounded at the number of illegals breaking our immigration laws while taking up residence in my state. I understand the City of Chicago is quite pro-illegal immigration in its views, which seems to be typical of the mostly liberal blue states. It is also interesting that illegal immigrants in massive numbers are taking up residence in those states that provide the most popular, and electoral votes. Perhaps, this is one reason why politicians are so lax in trying to correct immigration problems.
The story of Elvira Arellano brought a lot of insight into how a liberal political activist can become quite successful in the United States, regardless of illegality. Not only did Elvira Arellano become President of The United Latino Family, but she was also the third person on the 2006 Time Magazine “People Who Mattered Most” list, just behind Jack Abramoff and Muqtada Al Sadr. Time Magazine was not the only one paying special interest to her defiance of immigration law, however. The get-out-the-Latino-vote in liberal-dominated Chicago, Illinois also used images of her and her son to promote increased Latino voting in 2006. Perhaps, the Chicago-bred Hillary Clinton, and Illinoisan Barak Obama could sing a duet of the Oak Ridge Boys’ song “Elvira” commemorating this illegal Chicago hero at the Democratic National Convention.

JD

Posted by: JD at August 21, 2007 02:07 AM

DR

We are already seeing crops rot in the fields. Many farmers are even not planting as much or planting at all.There are pilot programs to use prison slaves to help out but they are limited. The guest worker program we do have is capped,expensive and beset by beuracratic delays.I am a labor guy. My first reaction is to think that if farmers paid decent wages they would be able to get workers no trouble. Of course they would pass at least some of the cost on to consumers. Sounds simple. The rub is that they have to compete with forign imports that limit how much they can charge. Would you buy a peach for a buck you could get for fifty cents?Globalization ties in with immigration.

Posted by: BillS at August 21, 2007 02:17 AM

yes bill, yes it certainly does. indeed, they go hand in hand. export the jobs that can be exported, import the labor for those that remain. f*** the middle(class)man. they’ll have us all on welfare, until we are so desperate as to accept the slave wages currently being paid out to foreigners.

go global.

Posted by: diogenes at August 21, 2007 02:39 AM

You can pick a lot of lettuce for the $70 billion (or more) in net losses to taxpayers (annually).

Unfortunately, Republicans had the majority of Congress for a decade and did not attempt to try to do anything about illegal immigration until their poll numbers started looking bad in late 2006. So, Republicans have not and are not serious about doing anything about illegal immigration. After all, how many decades does it take?

And Democrats are worse when it comes to illegal immigration. All you have to do is look at their voting records. Democrat politicians think all those illegal aliens will become Democrat voters. They don’t care what the impacts on existing voters.

And why should politicians of either party care when:

• most voters repeatedly reward and re-elect 90% to 95% of Congress since 1996 ?


• 40% to 50% of voters don’t even bother to vote


• most voters blindly pull the party lever; not even knowing exactly who they are voting for as long as they are in THEIR party


• most voters don’t even know who there state and federal senators and representatives are

The nation has a bigger illegal employer problem than an Illegal immigration problem.
There would not be so many if it were not for all the magnets and existing laws being total ignored.

State governments can’t easily do anything because the federal government has tied their hands and the states do not want to bear the costs of enforcing the laws that the federal government is supposed to be enforcing.

The federal government is failing at one of its most fundamental duties. Yet, the majority of voters (i.e. the 60% of 200 million eligible voters that even bother to vote) repeatedly reward and re-elect the same politicians that despicably pit American citizens and illegal aliens against each other.

There is a clever game that Democrat and Republican politicians play.
They each pick issues to champion.
Yet NEITHER are serious about solving problems, as evidenced by the Republicans waiting until the last minute to address illegal immigration, voting for a portion of a fence, and no funding to build it. And what have the Democrats accomplished since 7-Nov-2007?

Repeatedly rewarding and re-electing irresponsible, corrupt, bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians won’t do anything but make them more irresponsbile and corrupt.

Govenrnment will NOT become more responsible until the voters do too, and that’s not likely to change until the consequences of so much fiscal and moral bankruptcy finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at August 21, 2007 03:00 AM

d.a.n: I thought you were gone, I am glad to see you back man.

Posted by: Richard Rhodes at August 21, 2007 03:41 AM

Have any one of you actually dealt with the paperwork, the $$$, the no-nothing immigration employees, and the plain frustration of attempting to get legal residency for a relative who lives in a foreign country? Unless you have, you don’t know how utterly impossible it is…families often have to wait up to 10 years, at which time some of their children turn into adults and then have to start the process all over on their own behalf…not compassionate, not good for families.

If your family is starving (which I doubt any families of those posting here are), you will do anything in your power to feed them…including crossing borders. We need to re-evaluate what NAFTA and CAFTA have done in our name to foreign workers. It isn’t pretty…but then, starvation seldom is.

Posted by: Rachel at August 21, 2007 08:02 AM

Rachel,

Yes, I know what you mean. Bummer eh?
How dare the U.S. not let everyone come here?

It’s not easy to be one of the millions out of billions trying to immigrate to the U.S.

Sure, NAFTA and CAFTA are bad for many. It makes you wonder why the politicians in BOTH countries cooked that up, and voters in BOTH countries tolerate it (even reward them for it with perpetual re-election)? So, it appears it is not just our crooked politicians. The voters must like it too since they repeatedly reward and re-elect politicians for it (90% to 95% re-election rates in Congress since 1996).

You are right. The U.S. is a big country. It can take on millions more (maybe billions). How dare some in the U.S. want to keep it all to themselves.

Sure. The U.S. should just open the borders wide-open. But wait. Aren’t they already? So what’s the problem? Just do like millions of others. Come here illegally. Our government actually wants that. Democrats want votes and Republicans want cheap labor, and neither will ever seriously enforce existin laws. So I wouldn’t worry too much about doing it legally. Especially when it is totally unnecessary.
No passport or permission? No problem. And when you get here, be sure to visit the welfare office, along with 32% of other illegal aliens that receive welfare. But please don’t break other laws, because our prisons are already overflowing with illegal aliens (29% of the 2.2 million incarcerated are illegal aliens).

After all, the world population is only growing by 249,000 persons per day!
That’s only 10,375 persons per hour, 173 per minute, 2.88 per second!

The world population is now only 6.7 billion.
It is predicted to be a paltry 10 to 13 billion by 2039.

But, if we work hard at it, and continue to import the impoverished and less educated, we could even surpass China or India (or combined), and help push the world population up to 26 billion by 2039. Then the U.S. could also have all the many advantages of population that China and India now enjoy.

Also, an added benefit of increased population is that even world wars, plagues, and natural disasters can’t even put a dent in the population (or growth).

• The world population in year 1 A.D. was about 250 million people.


• The world population in year 1492 was about 500 million people.


• The world population in 1804 was 1.0 billion people.


• The world population in 1922 was 2.0 billion people (doubled in 118 years; increasing on average by about 23,000 per day).


• The world population in 1959 was 3.0 billion people (increased by 1.0 billion in only 37 years; increasing on average by about 74,000 per day).


• The world population in 2006 was 6.68 billion people (more than doubled in 47 years; increasing now by 249,000 persons per day!).


• The world population by 2039 could be 13 billion (only 33 years from now; increasing by 1.1 million per day!).


• In 1959, there were 12.16 acres per person (i.e. 36.48 billion acres / 3 billion people).


• In 2006, there were 5.46 acres per person (i.e. 36.48 billion acres / 6.68 billion people).
  By 2039, there may be only 2.81 acres per person (i.e. 36.48 billion acres / 13 billion people).

However, consider that there is only 12 million square miles (7.68 billion acres) of arable (farmable) land. And, ignore for a moment that arable land is being lost at a rate of 38,610 square miles per year. That is, lets assume no arable land is being lost for the next 33 years. Then …

• In 2006, there was 1.15 acres of arable land per person (i.e. 7.68 billion acres / 6.68 billion people).


• By 2039, there may be only 0.59 acres of arable land per person (i.e. 7.68 billion acres / 13 billion people).

However, arable land is being lost at the rate of over 38,610 square miles (24.7 million acres) per year. Therefore …

• By 2039, there may will be a whopping 0.53 acres of arable (farmable) land per person (i.e. 6.865 billion acres / 13 billion people). But that is not a concern, because technology will save us so that we can learn how to grow much more food on much less land.


• At the current rate of loss of 38,610 square miles per year of arable land, and even if the population did not grow any larger, ALL arable land could be lost in 310 years (12 million square miles / 38,610 square miles per year)! So we have plenty of time to figure out how the planet will support billions more by 2039.

Therefore, if we are successful in this new population race, we could easily get it down to 0.26 acres per person by 2039 (only 32 years). Perhaps we should have a procreation holiday like Russia? Hmmmm … I think some nations must have already had that holiday for a while? Also, if we open our borders, we could significantly increase the importation of the less educated and impoverished, and simultaneously put an end to illegal immigration. We may even be able to quadruple the U.S. population by 2039?

There are a LOT of things that can be done to win this population race!

Posted by: d.a.n at August 21, 2007 09:52 AM

BillS asked: “Would you buy a peach for a buck you could get for fifty cents?”

Yes! If the 50 cent peach came from China and the 1.00 peach came from Georgia. That is precisely why we need (POO) point of origin labeling which Republicans and Democrats alike in government have blocked every step of the way. All trade agreements should require that the foreign exporters LABEL their exports point of origin or their products DON’T get into America. It is not a problematic action. But, like D.a.n. says, there is no incentive for politicians lean on the profiters of exporters and importers lobbyists if voters reelect politicians with or without POO labeling.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 10:14 AM

She broke the law got caught and shipped back to Mexico. She came in again illegal, dropped a kid and now wants to stay here. She her and the kid back to Mexico. Next time if she comes back throw her ass in jail, and adopt the kid out. She doesn’t care about the kid, just using it to stay in the states.

Posted by: KT at August 21, 2007 10:20 AM

JD, your attempt to lay the illegal immigration problem at the feet of Democrats is pure political BS. Republicans who acquired power in 1994 and held it until the present, have not made a single comprehensive move to halt illegal immigration at the border. Token efforts to call off their constituents is all they were good for. But, it failed, and Republicans lost Congress in 2006 partly as a consequence of this issue.

Illegal immigration is a problem BOTH the duopoly parties must take responsibility for. What you say about Democrats is all true. But, it is blindly partisan to fail to acknowledge in the same comment the enormous contribution to the problem by Republicans who sought to protect the Republican voting employers of illegal immigrants, a good number of which also are responsible for the vast underground economy estimated at 1 Trillion dollars a year in undocumented trade and sales.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 10:24 AM

diogenes said: “[Politicians] who would have us first bicker and squabble over the most minute details of how to entirely and ultimately cure our condition before making any action, whatsoever.”

How very, very true. If only voters would exercise their democratic right to vote out politicians whose results disappoint, opening the way for challengers who out of self-interest, would not want to replicate the record of their predecessors which got them the boot, America would actually begin to solve more problems than politicians create for us.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 10:28 AM

Richard, Thanks!

David Remer, POO? Yikes! I’m not sure I want any POO on my peaches!
Seriously, the governments’ position on this comes as no surprise. Almost everything (if not everything) our politicians do reveal sinister motivations. They only care about profits, cheap labor (Republican & Democrat politicians) and votes (Democrat politicians), preserving their power, opportunities for self-gain, and retaining their cu$hy incumbencies, as evidenced by their inaction on illegal immigration for many decades, ignoring existing laws, ignoring the constitution, and pursuing their own self-gain while ignoring the nation’s problems growing dangerously in number and severity; threatening the future and security of the nation.

Jack wrote: Our society has come to revere victims.

Sort of. What is at work is divisiveness. And some are all to willing to wallow in it. It serves to emphasize our differences, rather than unity. Why is that? Could it be that someone has a motive to fuel it?

Nobody wants to be American or speak English.
They want to be [Fill in the blank]-American.

Compassion? From corrupt, bought-and-paid-for politicians?

• Where is the compassion for U.S. citizens that go without healthcare and access to ERs because ERs and hospitals are over-flowing with illegal aliens (of which many don’t pay)? Is this fair to U.S. tax payers?


• Where is the compassion for the truly needy U.S. citizens that can not get help because of limited resources, because 32% of illegal aliens receive welfare ?


• Where is the outrage of the greedy employers of illegal aliens; a manifestation of unchecked greed?


• Where is the compassion for the U.S. victims and survivors of crimes perpetrated by illegal aliens (29% of all incarcerated in federal prisons are illegal aliens), and the crime rates are rising.


• Where is the compassion for U.S. Americans who’s lives have been changed forever by illegal aliens that spread disease ? One illegal alien in Santa Barbara, California infected 56 other people with tuberculosis as reported on April 24, 2004, by the Santa Barbara Press-News, “Anatomy of an Outbreak”. Because illegal alien migration into the USA continues unabated for the past 20 years, we now have 16,000 new cases of incurable MDR tuberculosis in the past five years. We suffer 7,000 new cases of leprosy. We tolerate 100,000 new cases of hepatitis “A” in our society. Chagas Disease, which affects 14 million South Americans and kills 50,000 annually, streams across our borders as unchecked thousands of them enter our society. If your child goes to public school, they could be exposed, as thousands already have been.


• Where is the compassion for the people murdered every day by an illegal alien (Source: GAO-05-646R based on study group of 55,322 illegal aliens over a 57 year period)


• Where is the compassion for the U.S. tax payers net losses of over $70 billion per year due to all the numerous problems stemming from illegal immigration ?


• In view of all that above, how could anyone use the excuse that the U.S. would crumble (economically) without cheap labor? You can pick a lot of lettuce with the $70+ billion in annual net losses.


• Where is your compasssion for the millions of displaced American workers?


• Where is the compassion for all of the U.S. policemen murdered by illegal aliens? On 13-Nov-2005, Brian Jackson, a Dallas policeman was shot and killed by an illegal alien, Juan Lizcano. Lizcano had become drunk and went to the home of his ex-girfriend to threaten her. As the police pursued Lizcano after he fled the woman’s home, he shot Officer Jackson, who died later in the hospital. Officer Jackson was remembered by his fellow police as someone who loved his job and always went the extra mile. In Denver, Colorado, an illegal deliberately ran over a Denver polceman in a school cross walk “breaking his legs along with severe internal injuries. This is not anectdotal. This tragedy has occurred over and over in many cities across the U.S. Those are crimes that should have never happened.

But what is truly despicable is our own elected officials that pit American citizens and illegal aliens against each other.

But, the voters repeatedly reward and re-elected irresponsible politicians for it. So, why should irresponsible politicians become responsible?

Posted by: d.a.n at August 21, 2007 10:46 AM

By the way, Elvira Arellano also was arrested for Social Security fraud. If an American citizen did that, they would be in jail (that is, unless they are a pedophile, rapist, or politician with a pardon … who also seem to have immunity).

Posted by: d.a.n at August 21, 2007 10:51 AM

David R. If POO labeling was implemented it would it not seriously hamper one of the basic reasons for NAFTA, the bypassing of U.S. food and product safety regulations. When NAFTA was being written, I’m sure that some invloved knew that the government would not have the resources to check everything coming into the country.

Lead paint on Chinese toys is not a new thing. They have been busted for it before. Manufactures can clean their act up for a while until the government inspectors start looking elsewhere.

Posted by: jlw at August 21, 2007 10:57 AM

David,

While I agree that Republicans have also been slow to act on this issue, I give pretty pertinent reason as to why. Illegals are filling up in states that have the largest popular and electoral votes. Republicans do not want to create a huge liberal whine of tossing mothers out without their babies.
Do you not remember the phrase throwing babies out with the bathwater in the 90’s?
Liberals are far worse in immigration than Republicans. The way liberal Chicago, and the media embraced this illegal immigrant woman is despicable and embarrassing, and represents the huge problem Republicans have in doing anything at all about this issue.
Lest I remind you, it was conservative Republican talk radio and an uprising within the Republican Congress that prevented the passing of amnesty for illegals. Without Republican outcry, specifically among ultra-conservatives, illegals would have free reign, along with free everything else, in the United States.

JD

Posted by: JD at August 21, 2007 11:16 AM

Yes, I know what you mean. Bummer eh? How dare the U.S. not let everyone come here?

Don’t give me an agenda to which I’ve not signed on…I pointed out that it is extremely difficult, timewise and $$$-wise to get a legal visa to come to the US…

Take a look at the number of Iraqi refugees who’ve been allowed to come to the US…and that is an emergency situation…Sweden has taken in more Iraqi refugees than the US…Syria has taken around 2 million refugees…the US does not take care of its messes around the world, but relies on other countries to pick up the ruined lives…

NAFTA ruined Mexican farmers’ (and their families) lives…and now the US is paying for that policy…but still refuses to take any responsibility (and the Mexican government isn’t exactly producing a robust economy, either…) Maquiladoras which once employed thousands in the border region have gone to China…leaving mroe Mexicans unemployed…a great number of these were US corporations…

Posted by: Rachel at August 21, 2007 11:23 AM

Rachel,

You came to the wrong person if you think I’m going to defend my government’s corrupt and irresponsible actions.
My hypocrisy only goes so far.
I know our government is corrupt and irresponsible.
I know our government meddles in foreign affairs.
I know our government is FOR-SALE and controlled by a very few that abuse vast wealth can power to influence and control.

Unfortunately, the majority of voters repeated reward and re-elect the same people in that government (over and over), despite no one that can name 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, or even 268 (half of 535) in Congress that are responsible and accountable.
They are programmed to pull the party-lever.

And Mexico is no better. Mexico is even more corrupt than the U.S. In fact, the Mexican government encourages it citizens to come to the U.S. illegally so that they will continue to send billions back to Mexico annually.

Still, your comments seem to imply that the U.S. should make it easier to immigrate (that it is too difficult). Unfortunately, the U.S. is not obligated to make it easy if it does not want to. Besides, the U.S. already immigrates millions annually (not even counting the illegal immigrants). And like I said, why come here legally when you can come here illegally without and fear of deportation?

So you are in luck.
If you want to come here, just do it. Nobody will stop you. In fact, once you get here, you will be rewarded with free medical, free access to ERs, free sanctuary, false documents and IDs, free welfare, free education for your children, no taxes (i.e. get paid under the table), no need for auto insurance, and if ever arrested for murder, rape, theft, etc. you will be released faster than you can say illegal alien.

As for China (with 1.3 billion people) and India (with 1.1 billion people), compared to the U.S. (with 302 million people) and Mexico (with 108 million people), China and India have so many people willing to work for so much less, corporations are moving there in droves. So that problem affects workers all over the planet.

However, while some may think that is an advantage and we should emulate China and India, they should ask China and India about all the advantages of over-population. We should not want to follow in their billions of footsteps.

Unfortunately, the voters in both nations don’t get it. They bitch and complain and bitch and complain, but don’t ever hold their elected officials accountable, and then wonder why the voters are being used and abused. Unfortunately, the voters are getting what they deserve as long as the empower and reward the cheaters for cheating them.

Posted by: d.a.n at August 21, 2007 11:49 AM

billS

seems the son should have been deported too, according to the link posted by sandra. thanks sandra, i knew there had to be a silver linning somewhere.

rachel

sorry but not everyone that wants to, can come here, and beaking our immigration laws because they need work is still illegal. by your standards i should be able to not pay my taxes or ignore any other law i don’t like. BTW, are you saying that gov’t beauracrats can be unresponsive, and incompetent, that says volumes about all the other gov’t run offices we have to deal with on a regular basis. sure makes ya feel good inside, doesn’t it.

david

poo labeling, exellent point if i knew where my food was produced and had a choice i too in most cases would pay a little extra to buy american. i hadn’t paid much attention to that, but seems i’ll have to start.

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 12:11 PM

In 2006, a total of 1,266,264 persons became LPRs of the United States The majority of new LPRs (65 percent) already lived in the United States when they were granted lawful permanent resi-dence. Nearly two-thirds (63 percent) were granted permanent residence based on a family relationship with a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident of the United States.

So, if you’re not already living here, or have a relative living here, or have a skill totally necessary for the US economy to survive (like basketball player), you will find it difficult in the extreme to even apply for residency, no matter how worthy you might be…

If our population doesn’t grow, then social security will be in even more dire straits…why? because citizens aren’t replacing themselves!!

Posted by: Rachel at August 21, 2007 12:12 PM

dbs

by your standards i should be able to not pay my taxes or ignore any other law i don’t like.

I said nothing of the sort…that came from your own wayward thinking, I’m afraid…I never said I supported illegal immigration, but I do understand the reality of why it exists!! I don’t condone any portion of the Iraq War, either, but I understand how it came about…

Posted by: Rachel at August 21, 2007 12:15 PM

rachel

it exists because the mexican gov’t would rather export its poor, than deal with its own internal problems. it exists because for decades the US gov’t has refused to keep it in check, ie vigorously enforce the laws, and the border, and there are plenty of culprits on both sides of the aisle. the first step is to go after the employers, fines up to jail time for CEOs would send a clear messege, second is to stop as much of it at the border as possible. there will always be a few who will get through and find refuge, but the majority of it will be eliminated through attrition. once thats done then we look at a reasonable way to allow the foreign workers needed to fill jobs that can’t be filled by amricans, and make sure that they go home afterwards. the only ones who should be allowed to stay permanently are those who choose to become US citizens.

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 12:32 PM

dbs,

You ignore the obvious option of finding and deporting those here illegally. It is reported that doing so would cost 1.1 billion dollars.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 21, 2007 12:40 PM

Rhinehold

i don’t for a second believe that we can find an deport all 12 mil. in one shot. what i suggest is that if you cut off the job supply, and actually make the effort to close the borders, ( i realize there will always be some exceptions) and deport those who we come in contact with, who are here illegally, over a period of 5 to 10 years,( just a rough estimation) attrition will get the job done. i might add that thier offspring who are actually not US citizens, although that is the assumtion lately, would then also not be eligable for public assistence. in my state thats a big #. you are right though, mass deportation is not a viable option.

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 12:56 PM

Oh, I don’t know, I never said it wasn’t viable. We just have to be willing to spend the resources. If we look at how much we are spending because they are here and would save if they were deported, I’m wondering if it wouldn’t make sense.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 21, 2007 01:02 PM

I would rather spend the 12 billion dollars to deport the illegals and secure the border, then spend 12 billion dollars in iraq for a US controlled government who took a vacation while our soldiers were getting killed, and taking the money we have already sent there and not spending to fix their country.

Posted by: KT at August 21, 2007 01:15 PM

Rhinehold

i suppose anything is possible. i live not to far from santa ana, ca. assembling the man power, and coming up with a strategy to corral and aprehend all these people would be staggering. the $ side i think is easier to justify when you compare the cost in tax $ it takes to keep them here, and the services provided to the generally large families they have.

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 01:45 PM

Spending 12 billion (or even 20 billion) annually to secure the borders and stop illegal immigration would save at least $50 billion annually since the net losses due to illegal immigration are $70 billion annually.

It’s not necessary to deport 12 million (or more) illegal aliens. That lame argument is always trotted out to cloud and confuse the issues, among other tactics and excuses.

Stop the greedy illegal employers, and it will eliminate the magnets, and illegal aliens will stop coming here illegally, and the ones already where will go home or somewhere else.

Of course, that’s not going to happen since most (if not all) of our bought-and-paid-for politicians are in the pocket of the illegal employers, and voters repeatedly reward and re-elect those very same politicians that are (despicably) pitting the voters and illegal aliens against each other.

We should not hate illegal aliens just looking for work, despite violating our laws by being here illegally.

But we should despise our politicians (most, if not all) that despicably pit American citizens and illegal aliens against each other.

Politicians in BOTH parties will continue to ignore this (and other) problems (aside from a little here or there to quell the complainers over and over) as long as voters reward Congress with 90% to 95% re-election rates (since 1996; one of the longest periods of high re-election rates ever).

Posted by: d.a.n at August 21, 2007 02:52 PM

This is an issue where the Democratic Leadership (and, of course, w) is completly wrong. Illegal immigration is a subset of a much larger problem: the attack on middle class incomes. Businesses could not send good paying jobs overseas fast enough toward cheaper labor so they are bringing the labor here. Remember, it’s not about compassion (for a mother who is “forced” to leave her son behind), or about “being sensible about the reality of 12,000,000 illegals already here”, (which is the core argument used to push comprehensive reform), it is about money.

Posted by: Charles Ross at August 21, 2007 02:57 PM

Rounding up all the immigrants here without permission is not feasable. It would take the entire constabulary with the aid of an already overburdened military.The cost would far exceed the estimates sighted . The results would be a severe economic downturn,food shortages and raising prices.It would also create instability in Mexico likely to increase immigration presure,this time with war refugees. The level of human suffering involved would make the Trail of Tears seem like a picnic.
FYI Nearly half the estimated 12 million or so people here without papers did not sneak across the border. Many are not Latinos. They have overstayed their visas.

Posted by: BillS at August 21, 2007 03:11 PM

Charles Ross

“it’s not about compassion (for a mother who is “forced” to leave her son behind), or about “being sensible about the reality of 12,000,000 illegals already here”, (which is the core argument used to push comprehensive reform), it is about money.”

i agree, but don’t leave out the other half of equation. it’s also about future voting blocks. remember the chant,” today we march, tomorrow we vote”. don’t kid yourself as easy as it is to vote absentee, and with no type of ID required at the polls, they are probably voting already.

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 03:13 PM

it exists because the mexican gov’t would rather export its poor,

It exists because the Us government would rather screw the worker…allowing employers to use illegals consistently…where are the huge fines on slaughter house owners? cleaning service owners? construction company owners? The executive branch of government is in charge of enforcing the laws of this nation…why is our current chief executive NOT ENFORCING laws against employing illegal workers??? A couple raids here and there are not enforcement…they are just “show”…

Posted by: Rachel at August 21, 2007 03:20 PM

BillS

if the fed gov’t decides to round them up, who do they need permission from? if it takes a revolution in mexico to clean that country up, then it’s far past due. the prosperity and freedom we have here has been paid for dearly time and time again, it wasn’t without cost, and to think the same thing in mexico wouldn’t require the same type of sacrifice is unrealistic.

i do agree with you that mass deportation is not the best option. punish the employers to cut off most of the job supply, and they will leave voluntarily. attrition will get the job done over time. the ones that still wish to work here can apply, and enter through legal channels. over time americans can replace the mexican workers, and work visas for foreign workers can adjusted year to year according to labor shortage, and necessity.

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 03:30 PM

Rachel

excellent question, but trying to paint it as a republican problem is to ignore the fact the democrats have done nothing about it either, and have thier own agenda. they see future voters. to make this a partisan issue is to ignore the truth. it effects all of us, so rather than attack republicans lets solve the problem. i think i made my position clear earlier, do you dissagee with it, or is it because i’m a republican, you refuse to acknolwege validity in anything i say?

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 03:41 PM

dbs
I am sorry I was not more clear. I was refering to the immigrants without permission to be here.

Mexico does indeed need some basic reforms to allow a more equitable distribution of wealth. Mexico is actually a wealthy country. Problem is the wealth is kept by the elites. Do you really expect the US to go along with or even tolerate the type of Bolivarian revolution needed to correct this. The last time Mexicans tried this we sent an army to stop it.

Mass deportation is not a realistic option for a civilized democracy.Pretending that it is obsfucates the debate.

Posted by: BillS at August 21, 2007 04:27 PM

Mexican gays are sneaking across the border to unplug our brain dead women! —Homer Simpson

Posted by: BillS at August 21, 2007 04:53 PM

Jack,

We created the immigration issue. We manipulated the Mexican economy for the last century and prevented their development. Now, we have a much poorer neighbor whose populace, not surprisingly, finds it necessary to send people here to work. As if that is not enough, our own companies large and small continue to take horrifying advantage.

The immigration bill died because significant money from companies like DR Horton Homes and Centex is invested in the status quo. These entities give to campaign funds and thus when they ask for a procedural stone-walling of immigration reform, they get it.

Further, contrary to popular opinion, we are actually netting more than we spend in services to the undocumented. This is not making the press, but it should.

Consider:
http://www.nmvoices.org/attachments/immigrant_tax_report.pdf

This report does even take sufficient notice of the income taxes paid by the undocumented. Yes. I said INCOME TAXES!
I know this is done because I have volunteered as part of a major project to help undocumented get their taxes filed. They lined up in the hundreds to get these services from us at the location I worked at becaeuse they wish to remain in the good grace of the law in order to be able adjust status and become legal citizens as soon as possible.

The denial of both reality and responsibility endorsed by those who know so little about this issue, such as the top commentary which begins this thread, is destructive and morally irresponsible.

Ask yourself one question with respect to Elvira Arellano: Do you suppose her kids speak Spanish?

It is common to assume that all hispanic children, legal or illegal speak spanish, but it is even more common that they don’t. Parents trying to achieve assimilation for themselves and their families very often encourage english and don’t encourage spanish among their kids in the home. It is the native born American hispanics who more commonly encourage their children to speak spanish.

Posted by: RGF at August 21, 2007 05:36 PM

RGF said: “We manipulated the Mexican economy for the last century and prevented their development.”

You are right about manipulating the Mexican economy in part. But, you are dead wrong on our preventing their development. You may want to read up on the history of Mexico just a tad. They didn’t even have a stable government until just a couple decades ago, and without a stable government, you can’t have a stable economy. Finally, Mexico remained a largely agricultural society right through our industrialization and technological growth periods. Leaving them by their own choices, a third world nation until their break out in the 1970’s when OIL became an enriching export.

Just a little research goes a long way to insure credibility.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 05:59 PM

RGF

what does this all have to do with enforcing our immigration laws. we didn’t need new immigration laws, just to enforce those we already had. they didn’t, so whats the point of passing more laws that won’t be enforced?

“The denial of both reality and responsibility endorsed by those who know so little about this issue, such as the top commentary which begins this thread, is destructive and morally irresponsible.”

i see, so anyone who doesn’t buy into your conspiracy theories, or disagrees is just ignorant, got it.

“Ask yourself one question with respect to Elvira Arellano: Do you suppose her kids speak Spanish?”

who cares, doesn’t change anything, she still came here illegally, and had that child after being ordered deported once already. i guess all us big meanies should be ashamed we expect the gov’t to enforce our immigration laws.

Posted by: dbs at August 21, 2007 06:00 PM

BillS said: “Mass deportation is not a realistic option for a civilized democracy”

But phased deportation is highly practical and pragmatic for a civilized democracy as well as a border barrier enforced to protect its own sovereignty and resources from those who would plunder it out of both need and greed.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 06:03 PM

DR
The only modern example of the deportation you are suggesting is what occured in Europe under the nazis.It too was phased. First Germany,then Austria,then Poland,France etc. I chose my words carefully when I wrote “a civilized democracy.”

Posted by: BillS at August 21, 2007 07:33 PM

You have that deportation a little backward there don’t you BillS. It was more like we deported Germans first out of France, then out of Poland, then out of Austria, and back into Germany which was their country to begin with! Are you saying we were not civilized in doing so?

JD

Posted by: JD at August 21, 2007 08:01 PM

Jack,

This woman aside, I suppose if you think illegal immigrants are really hurting our country then that’s the position you’ll take, but all of this pretending to care about the “law” is comical. The law is whatever Americans say it is. Period. It can be changed for the good of this nation or to whatever is sensible at any time.

If your party had any good arguments that showed illegal immigrants hurt this country those would be touted, not this breaking the law excuse. It’s true, and since there are no good arguments, you’ve got to wonder what the real reason is. Gee, could it be racism?

Let’s see… Wacky and totally unrealistic plan to round up foreigners - Check. No good reason to have them leave, but many good ones to have them stay - Check. No hispanic votes for Republicans for at least a generation? - Checkmate.

Posted by: Max at August 21, 2007 09:43 PM

Max

I support legal immigration. I just believe that WE Americans have the right to make the decisions.

That racism argument is just pure BS. I am opose illegal immigration from Poland, the country of my own ancestors. I support legal immigration from places like China, Nigeria or Mexico. WE Americans should choose who can come to our country. It should not be the default decision of anybody who can sneak in.

That position maybe would cost me votes of people who do like to cheat if I were running for anything. I think it is more important to do the right thing than the pandering popular thing. I believe in the rule of law.

BTW - immigration is not a Republican or Dem issue. It tends to split both parties. The WSJ is much in favor or immigration, while many labor groups oppose it.

Posted by: Jack at August 21, 2007 10:21 PM

Max said: “The law is whatever Americans say it is.”

The law is located in the federal registry and the people have spoken on this in the form of law which is why it is correct to refer to them as ILLEGAL immigrants.

Get it? Illegal? As in not according to the law which the American people assented to, through their elected representatives as recently as 1987 under Reagan’s administration and the Democratic Congress of the time.

So, you are quite right. These 12 to 20 million people who have entered into this country without bothering customs or immigration authorities are law breakers because the American people SAID they ARE!

Texas is experiencing huge percentage growths in diseases which were once eradicated or, under control precisely because of illegal immigration and the absence of requisite immunizations required of legal immigrants. The black plague is back in growing numbers. A result of the fleas hitching a ride on both illegal contraband and illegal immigrants entering the country without NHS monitoring or preventive measures taking place. Hepatitus B is a major concern now for Texas school districts partly a result of illegal immigration.

Not to mention heavily armed illegal immigrant gangs growing Marijuana in our National Forests and threatening American citizens who visit our parks and stray too close to the crops. I have paid for those National Parks all my working life, and NOW I have to arm myself when visiting them because of illegal immigrants claiming the parks for their own underground economy.

This has GOT TO STOP! And citizens across this country are taking the law into their own hands being left no choice by these bastards in the White House and Congress who WON’T enforce the laws of the people designed to protect the American people. Fine, we will protect ourselves and when enough of us do, we won’t need a federal government anymore. Is that where you want to see our future go?

We are a hair’s breadth away from a growing wave of vigilantism in this country that won’t be pretty or civilized. Our intelligence agencies are now warning of internal domestic terrorists. Fancy that. As if it weren’t predictable by the fury of the people at the government’s abject failure to do what they were hired to do, enforce the laws already on the books and in our founding documents.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 21, 2007 10:54 PM

Max: This Democrat thinks that early next year, the troops will be starting to come from Iraq and that illegal immigration will be the bigest issue in the 2008 elections. If the Democratic Party backs the illegal immigrants they can kiss the Congress goodby and possibly the White House to. If they can get enough illegals to vote, they may be able to hold onto L.A., Chicago and New York City.

You may think that illegal immigration is good for America. You may even be able to prove that it is. However, close to 80% of the people are convinced that it is wrong and bad for our country. Your facts won’t convince them in the least.

Posted by: jlw at August 21, 2007 11:36 PM

Max,

I believe the D.A.N. has more then enough stats on the impact from Illegal Immigration. Follow his links.

Posted by: Scottyp at August 21, 2007 11:55 PM

Whether illegal aliens have a net negative or positive financial influence on this country is hotly debated among economists. I won’t bother listing links because anyone willing to search can find the arguments for both sides. So let’s stop pretending the numbers tossed around represent any sort of consensus view.

That said, every country has a legitimate interest in securing its borders, and I don’t think we need to label those who want to stop illegal immigration as racists.

Posted by: Gerrold at August 22, 2007 08:50 AM

It’s not clear whether illegal immigrants help or hurt this country. It would be great to have this debate, but instead our focus has been put onto the red herring issue of “breaking the law”. If Republicans had a slam dunk argument that showed illegal immigrants hurt us, they would shout it from the rooftops. They don’t, and that speaks volumes. I don’t honestly believe anyone’s a racist, though I do think some of that has driven this campaign. In general, I think the campaign has been driven by knee jerk reactions to a right wing radio talking point that is largely beside the point and counterproductive to solving the issue.

Btw, here’s a great article by Tony Snow asking the Republican party to have some commonsense on this issue.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/03/how_about_a_little_common_sens.html

Posted by: Max at August 22, 2007 09:45 AM

RGF:

I’ll bite, where did these illegal immigrants get the required social security number to file and pay taxes?

This report does even take sufficient notice of the income taxes paid by the undocumented. Yes. I said INCOME TAXES! I know this is done because I have volunteered as part of a major project to help undocumented get their taxes filed. They lined up in the hundreds to get these services from us at the location I worked at becaeuse they wish to remain in the good grace of the law in order to be able adjust status and become legal citizens as soon as possible.

Posted by: womanmarine at August 22, 2007 12:26 PM

Max, you are overlooking two indisputable facts. First, the vast majority of Americans DO NOT support tolerance for law breaking. Second, the vast majority of Americans recognize that unchecked illegal immigration is harmful to America if not in the present, in the not too distant future as numbers grow from 1 million to 5 million or more a year, which of course will occur if illegal immigration is not halted, as demand for living in America around the world vastly exceeds 5 million persons per year.

These two irrefutable facts lead to only one logical resolution. Halt illegal immigration, regardless of whether in the present, on balance, they are a net positive or net negative for America. Unstopped, the problem grows into an invasion, and Americans do not want their children to have to face that dilemma which the parents can prevent now.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 22, 2007 01:02 PM

Gerold
If these immigrants were from Canada the amount of xenophobic vitriol would be much less. If you look at some of the post here you will see that many are dripping with fear, the mother of racism.

Posted by: BillS at August 22, 2007 01:09 PM

BillS,

Undeniably some people are racists. Undeniably some people are whatever bad thing you want to select. Undeniably some people overstate the (pick one) negatives or positives of illegal immigration. All that is irrelevant.

Every country has a right to thwart illegal immigration. We have millions of illegal aliens, and we have legitimate national security reasons to control who comes into our country and to deport those who came in illegally. Realistically, we cannot deport them all, but that shouldn’t stop us from deporting those we can. That said, I have no problem in principle with mechanisms that allow some illegal immigrants to become legal.

Posted by: Gerrold at August 22, 2007 02:32 PM

I’m still waiting for an answer to womammarine’s question…..where, and how, did they get the social security (numbers) cards used to file taxes ??!!
I have long ago lost my actual card, and it is a major production to get a replacement.

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at August 22, 2007 03:44 PM

David,

If your first point, that Americans do not support law breaking, were really true than Republicans would have the balls to go after the businesses that are hiring them. In fact, these businesses, which have so much respect for law, wouldn’t be hiring them in the first place.

Your second point, that the current immigration policy is broken and must be fixed is entirely valid, but there are options as to how to fix it. Democrats propose a work program that will document illegal immigrants and create standards, harsh standards, for legal citizenship, that all immigrants can agree are hard but fair. Republicans talk about building a wall that cannot be built and or rounding up all illegals and putting them in jail, which is physically impossible. This us versus them mentality is going to create huge problems down the road.

Posted by: Max at August 22, 2007 03:52 PM

Sandra and Womanmarine
Employers withold money from paychecks to pay taxes. They also hold SS. These monies are applied to whatever SS number they are given regardless od its legitimacy. I can’t source it right now but I recall a SS spokesman stateing that there is a freat deal of money put there that will never be paid out.

Biden has a pretty good approach. He favors rigorous border enforcement includeing some fenceing where it makes sense. He also favors allowing those already here that pass a background test,have a decent work record,are willing to pay any taxes owed and a fine a pathway to citizenship.As he points out,Mexico is the third richest country in the hemisphere. He also favors US encouragement of Mexico to provide more opportunities for more people, bearing in mind that we cannot dictate policy to another country.He also is in favor of a guest worker program for agriculture but opposes extending that to other industries like construction.

The administration is stepping up employer enforcement efforts.Outside of a few media events this is not likely to help much but merely push the problem furthur underground. There will be an increase in cash pay. Workers will be hired for shorter durations etc.The administration also claims to be “streamlining” the existant guest worker programs. Looks to me Bushco is useing immigrants to furthur erode workers rights. Surprise surprise.

Posted by: BillS at August 22, 2007 06:27 PM

womanmarine, Sandra

of course they want to file thier taxes, but not so they are “in the good grace of the law”. it’s more likely they want to make sure they get thier refunds being as they probably get all of it, or even more back then they paid in because of thier filing status. so RGF what percentage got refunds, and what percentage actually owed? just curious.

Posted by: dbs at August 22, 2007 06:33 PM

BillS

you can’t get a soc.sec # unless you are here legally. many people go through hell when these illegal aliens use thier #s. what thier doing is illegal period. the rest doesn’t matter. they’re just fortunate to get away with it, and feeling sorry for them because they paid in and won’t get to collect is nonsense.

Posted by: dbs at August 22, 2007 06:38 PM

“The administration is stepping up employer enforcement efforts.Outside of a few media events this is not likely to help much but merely push the problem furthur underground. There will be an increase in cash pay. Workers will be hired for shorter durations etc.The administration also claims to be “streamlining” the existant guest worker programs. Looks to me Bushco is useing immigrants to furthur erode workers rights. Surprise surprise.”

your partly right, but next step would to make the cost of hiring illegals so costly as to not be worth it. 1st two offenses stiff fines. the 3rd offense THE CEO GOES TO JAIL. that would stop it !

Posted by: dbs at August 22, 2007 06:46 PM

dbs wrote: …feeling sorry for them because they paid in and won’t get to collect is nonsense.

Ain’t it though. That doesn’t even offset the massive $70+ billion in NET losses due to illegal immigration (not to mention the untold cost of crime, displaced jobs, and disease). But look out, the Democrat politicians (who have the majority) and many Republican politicians want to make illegal aliens eligible for Social Security (just as soon as they can push through another shamnesty BILL like the one in 1986).

Posted by: d.a.n at August 22, 2007 07:08 PM

dbs
Did I say anything about feeling sorry for anyone? You know for $15 you can get anybodies SS number online? Until we come up with a conterfiet proof ID ,employer enforcement will be just for show and one more tool to keep workers in their place. Even the proposed system where an employer can call in and verify a employees right to work will not help much. Many will not call and there will be a lot of Spanish speaking workers named O’Malley and Smith.

Posted by: BillS at August 23, 2007 12:46 AM

Max, your dishonest attempt to restate my words “the majority of Americans” as ‘Americans (all inclusive)’ to make your argument is BUSTED! ! !

When you are capable of honest and logical debate, let me know, and we can talk again.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 23, 2007 03:01 PM

Max

painting this as a republican problem is absolutely dishonest. my point is not to defend the party, but to call you on your accusation. the democrats are not interested in a solution that would fix the problem, only one that would allow them to stay in order to recruit future voters. your guys are in power how about locking up CEOs that are allowing thier companies to hire these people. if the job supply dries up they will leave on thier own. the mass deportation argument is a red herring.

Posted by: dbs at August 23, 2007 08:10 PM

Do all you “no new taxes/ tax cutters” realize what it would cost to “enforce our immigration laws”, or are you just talking big? I mean, would you really be willing to put that much more into the federal coffers to expand the INS and police forces so we could catch and deport all 11 million? Sometimes I think you guys don’t have any sense of the implications of your “garage logic.”

Posted by: mental wimp at August 24, 2007 01:19 PM

No need to deport all of them.
The “we can’t deport them” arguemnt is garage logic, and one of many weak excuses that undermine border security and enforcement of existing immigration laws.

First, just stop employing illegal aliens, and build the fence (already approved in Congress), and that would probably save American tax payers over $50 billion, since illegal aliens cost American tax payers over $70 billion in NET losses annually. And that does not even include the untold cost of crime, millions of displaced jobs, disease.

But don’t worry.
Congress has no intentions of ever enforcing existing laws, because Republicans want cheap labor for they big-money-donor-illegal-employers, and Democrat politicians want cheap labor and vote (once they pass a shamesty BILL).

Congress and law enforcement might put on a bit of a show, since they are blatantly ignoring existing laws and pitting American citizens and illegal aliens against each other, but Congress will basically continue to allow the illegal immigration (by the millions annually) to continue for nefarious reasons.

As for taxes, the tax system is a joke. It’s not fair (just ask Warren Buffet who pays a lower percentage on income than a secretary making $60K). Besides, there’s really no need for a tax system at all if the government is going to print all the money they want anyway? If they just print what they need, we are all taxed roughly the same due to the inflation it causes. Already, the government has averaged 182 billion of new money annually between 1950 and 2005. The M3 money supply increased by a factor of 75. We did not become 75 times wealthier since 1850. Especially since the population doubled since 1950.

Posted by: d.a.n at August 24, 2007 02:16 PM

d.a.n.

Uh…you’re wrong about that, d.a.n.

http://www.nmvoices.org/attachments/immigrant_tax_report.pdf

Are you advocating for that silly fence?
When will you realize that the fence is boondoggle advocated by those who know it won’t accomplish anything but furher political manipulation?

It’s silly beyond belief!

Hell, d.a.n., the Cubans and the Haitians are swimming here! The Mexicans have already built a burm on their side to demonstrate how preposterous a proposition such a fence is.

What about the Bucarelli agreement whereby we have corruptly steimied economic agreement in Mexico and caused our own problem out of our own selfishness? What about the degree to which American businesses continue to profit from the status quo? …which is responsible in no small part for the procedural death of the last attempt at immigration reform!

…but regarding the economic loss calculations you are just wrong.

The only way to come up with a calculation favorable to your point of view, you must consider the money being sent back to Mexico by both legal and illegal laborers. However, it is not morally acceptable to give weight to those figures! How is it appropriate to tell anyone what they can and cannot do with their money? …unless it involves criminal conduct in and of itself such as funding illegal activity. Besides, The ONLY solution to the immigration issue is to help Mexico grow economically. Since we aren’t doing our neighborly duty, they are doing are doing it for themselves by working here and sending much of it home. When we get to the point where Mexico and the U.S. have similar standards of living, we will see dramatic increases in certain goods coming into this country as well even more dramatic insreases in construction costs and manufactured goods costs.

…Then what?
Nobody is calculating the benefits of Mexican labor!

This problem will and must resolve itself. There are too many American interests involved in corruptly profiting from the status quo, anyway. Over time, the standard of living in Mexico will rise to be closer to our own as a result of that very status quo. Unfortuneatly, that is the only plausible or even possible avenue for positive change at this point.

In the meantime, many in Washingtom will continue sell the rediculous hype which you have bought into. That’s a shame, too, because you seem so intelligent and analytical on so many other issues, d.a.n. Why can you not see the forest for the trees on this one?

The republicans are NOT about immigration reform at all…they are about selling this issue for votes while moneyed supporters such as DR Horton Homes and Centex continue to make campaign contributions and profit from the status quo.

It’s all hype! Wake up and smell the coffee!

Posted by: RGF at August 24, 2007 02:27 PM

RGF, it’s all about pain level. Illegal aliens are raising that pain level. Many Americans are murdered each day by illegal aliens. Estimates put it at many times above the norm. When it becomes painful enough, there will be change. In the mean time, U.S. tax payers are losing billions annually ($70 billion or more) in net losses due to illegal aliens. Unfortunately, our own despicable politicians prefer to pit American citizens and illegal aliens against each other. How long will it take voters to figure this out?

Posted by: d.a.n at August 25, 2007 01:25 AM

“Over time, the standard of living in Mexico will rise to be closer to our own as a result of that very status quo.”

it is far, far more likely that, over time the standard of living here in the united states will decrease to reach the equilibrium that you desire. *that*, unfortunately, is the only plausible and possible avenue for change (as we are witnessing it daily)… and it will not be a change for the better for mexicans or americans.

Posted by: diogenes at August 25, 2007 09:52 AM

RGF, The article you provided is clearly biased, and even it shows it to be a wash based on their numbers.

Unfortunately, that study (which is far outnumbered by more credible reports to the contrary) failed to include the cost many other things producing a $70 billion (or more) net loss to American tax payers:

• crime


• burden on education systems;
  
• burden on healthcare systems;


• burden on hospital systems; 84 hospitals closed/closing in California;


• burden on welfare systems; over 32% of illegal aliens collect welfare


• burden on Medicaid system;


• burden on border patrol systems; ever increasing numbers are needed;


• burden on insurance systems; illegal aliens can/will not pay for damages they cause;


• burden on law enforcement systems; costing California billions per year;


• burden on prison systems; 29% of state and federal prisoners (Sep-2004) are illegal aliens;


• 2.3 million displaced American workers; partly because half of all illegal aliens that don’t pay taxes, and greedy employers that don’t pay unemployment taxes, Social Security, Medicare taxes, etc.;


• voter fraud; burden on voting systems;

That Fiscal Project Project failed to address all of those issues. It chose to cherry pick the data.

Posted by: d.a.n at August 25, 2007 05:09 PM

d.a.n.,

It is not dialogue to simply argue that my data is biased while yours is not. We are not politicians running for office. We can do better.

You still do even try to address the moral issue:
We created this mess by steimying economic development in Mexico with the Bucarelli agreement.

You don’t respond to the reality of why the status quo remains: our own American companies which are both campaign contributers and corrupt theives profitting from the undocumented by theft of labor

There is no response or consideration whatsoever about the fact that the only solution is for Mexico to grow, develop and improve their standard of living and the only way that is going to happen is if they do it for themselves. We could help matters by removing the profit motive in the drug trade, but too many unthinking righties among us thnk that is too radical. The drug traffic may be the only thing that American citizens have any real control over.

I simply KNOW better than to believe your data either. So I guess we are at an impass. Go ahead vote for the boondoggle and wasted money represented by the wall project. It will only accomplish the temporary employment of those who build it and it ultimately accomplish nothing except the immense waste of our tax dollars.
Sadly, I will have to satisfy myself with the future solace of telling you “I told you so.”

Posted by: RGF at August 25, 2007 07:07 PM

RGF wrote: It is not dialogue to simply argue that my data is biased while yours is not. We are not politicians running for office. We can do better.

The facts are what count. I provided about a hundred links, GAO reports on crime, and hundreds of other studies and articles (as opposed to your one link).

Besides, existing laws should be enforced.
Illegal immigration is just that: illegal.

Of course our own politicians are selling us out.
So are the politicians in Mexico selling out their citizens. But we are not forcing people from all over the world to come here to violate our laws and trespass our borders.

The politicians are the truly despicable party in all of this, as they pit American citizens and illegal aliens against each other.

But the majority of voters repeatedly reward and re-elect the incumbent politicians for it, so the voters don’t seem too upset yet with their bought-and-paid-for politicians. Why else would they repeatedly reward Congress with a 90% to 95% re-election rate since 1996 ?

So we’re all culpable.
But just because we help created this mess doesn’t mean we aren’t allowed to clean it up, and it doesn’t justify breaking the law.

But don’t worry.
Our governemnt isn’t serious about enforcing existing laws.

So, it’s a moot issue.

Congress and governments will not enforce the laws because bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians are in the pockets of their big-money-donor puppeteers (greedy illegal employers).

Also, this is not just about Mexico. Illegal aliens come from all over the world.

As for the article you provided a link to, it’s not very convincing or comprehensive. It cherry picks a few facts, and leaves out a myriad of other facts. Illegal aliens are costing American tax payers net losses of over $70 billion per day. For every study or report that tries to refute that fact, there are 20 more credible reports and studies that support that fact.

But you don’t have to have a lot of research to prove it. Just do a little math.

COST BURDEN / TOTAL NET LOSSES to U.S. CITIZENS:

The U.S. has 300 million citizens (as of NOV-2006).
There are about 12 million illegal aliens (some estimates place this much higher).
But, only about 55% of illegal aliens pay federal income taxes.
That leaves 6.6 million illegal aliens that pay federal income taxes.
But, only 67% of illegal aliens are employed (the rest are children or elderly).
That leaves 4.422 million employed illegal aliens that pay income taxes.
Now, let’s assume illegal aliens average $12 per hour for 5.5 days per week (287 days per year).

That comes to $27,552 per year.
After a standard IRS deduction of $5,000 , that leaves $22,552 per year.
The highest tax rate (filing single) is 13.3647% .
Therefore, that is $3014 in federal income taxes withheld per year (using 2005 tax tables).
And, Social Security and Medicare taxes add up tp 15.3% of gross income.
That includes the 7.65% paid by the employer, and 7.65% paid by the employee.
Therefore, that amounts to $4215 for 15.3% for Social Security and Medicare taxes.
That is $18.64 billion for Social Security and Medicare taxes.

However, other estimates say that it is actually only about $7 billion.
Nevertheless, let’s continue with the much higher $18.64 billion.
Therefore, the highest estimate of total taxes paid = $7229 = $2014 + 4215 .
That is $31.97 billion per year = ($4.422 million * $7229) for all federal taxes.
Note: none of that even includes deductions for dependents.

Now lets assume the profit from their work is at least 16.7% ($2 per hour of the wage of $12 per hour) to the employer.
Thus, the value of their work is $24.08 billion per year.
Unfortunately, the U.S. citizens do not realize the entire benefit of the value of that work.
Greedy employers of illegal aliens reap most of the profit and benefit from the under-paid/under-class. That is why a huge jump in prices is a myth, and even if it were true, the net losses would still exceed net benefits.
Thus, the net value to the U.S. is $56.05 billion = $31.97 billion + $24.08 billion.

However, the net costs to U.S. tax payers is estimated at $70 billion (after taxes are deducted). In 1997 (nine years ago), Dr. Donald Huddle, Professor Emeritus of Economics at Rice University, found that total costs were as high as $139 billion, and net costs (after adjusting for taxes and some other net gains) were $69 billion in 1997. So, $87 billion in 2006 is a very conservative estimate, since Huddle also did not include the cost of displaced workers, crime, and disease.

Therefore, let’s use the smaller estimate of net costs (before deducting taxes) of $101.97 billion (i.e. $70 billion + $31.97 billion for taxes), which agrees closely with many estimates. At fairus.org, the estimate of costs is $87 billion per year, but that is before deducting the value of all federal taxes, which was generously estimated above at $31.97 billion. $31.97 billion is really over estimated, but let’s assume taxes paid are actually that high.

Therefore, the total cost after deducting taxes and value of work is $45.92 billion = ($101.97 billion - $31.97 billion taxes received - $24.08 billion value of work).

That value of $45.92 billion is very close to the $45 billion estimated by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (fairus.org) which stated:

“the net expense [loss] to the taxpayer from illegal immigration would currently be at least $45 billion”

And, that $45 billion of net losses to U.S. citizens does not even include the estimates for 2.3 million displaced U.S. workers, unemployment benefits and welfare for displaced workers, tax deductions for dependents, cost of crime, and disease. Also, it is mostly the poorest citizens that are being displaced from jobs, because of the unfair advantage that illegal aliens and their greedy employers have by not paying taxes.

Many studies place the estimated net losses to the U.S. at double that (ranging from $70 billion to $300 billion). Even if it is only $45 billion, that is not an insignificant amount. That amounts to about $1 billion per state per year. And here’s another important thing. Those costs above do not even include the untold costs of crime, several homicides per day, job displacement, 32% of illegal aliens that receive welfare, 29% of all incarcerated in federal prisons are illegal aliens, overrun hospitals and ERs, burdens on school systems, law enforcement, prisons, insurance, disease, border patrol, and voter fraud. Add that and the burdens are much higher. And what will be the impact of importing so many that are impoverished and uneducated?

Also, some states are impacted drastically more. Conservative estimates of total annual losses for California alone, are estimated at $11 billion.

The fence would only cost $10 to $20 billion, and $10 billion annually to guard. That means U.S. tax payers would save $60 billion annually ($70 billion - $10 billion).

The reason for the fence is two fold.
To secure the borders and because Congress may still refuse to enforce the illegal employers.

Democrat politicians may get a huge surprise in the 2008 elections, because voters seem to think Democrat politicians are soft on illegal immigration. I don’t know where they get that strange idea. They’re no worse than Republican politicians. Just because Republican politicians voted for a fence (with no funding) at the last minute in 2006 when they saw their ratings in the toilet doesn’t prove anything. Neither party is serious about stopping illegal immigration. Still, it’s a perception. Lots of voters appear to think Republicans are going to do something about illegal immigration. If that were true, why didn’t they do anything in the past decade while they had the majority. Now that the Democrats have the majority, it’s extremely unlikely they will address illegal immigration. And non-border states don’t get it. Some person in Vermont was telling me the other day that there were only a few illegal aliens there. I told him there are about a million illegal aliens in just the north-east quadrant of Texas. That’s more that the population of the whole state of Vermont (and Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, Delaware, and Alaska).
____________________
How Much Do Illegal Aliens Cost U.S. Taxpayers?
… M O R E …

Jack’s article is very apropos.
Where’s the compassion?
Where’s the compassion for American citizens that despicable politicians pit against illegal aliens by shifting the losses and burdens onto U.S. tax payers (over $70 billion annually)?
Where’s the compassion for several Americans murdered every day be illegal aliens?
Where’s the compassion for Americans whose schools, ERs, and hospitals have been overrun by illegal aliens?
Where’s the compassion for needy Americans that go without while 32% of all illegal aliens receive welfare?
Where’s the compassion for the Americans killed or infected (One illegal alien in Santa Barbara, California infected 56 other people with tuberculosis as reported on April 24, 2004, by the Santa Barbara Press-News, “Anatomy of an Outbreak”)?

Posted by: d.a.n at August 26, 2007 01:49 AM

Arellano hailed as Hero in Mexico, son receives scholarships, Mexico Senate drafts bill condemning US failure to secure its borders and deporting Arellano. This was all CNN and Arellano’s deportation to Mexico turned into the best thing that could have happened to her. Now she will make a living as speaker and condemner of US immigration policy in Spanish speaking countries, demanding the US open its borders to all who need to migrate.

The Irony is to great and complex for words. CLOSE the Damned borders to ALL but LEGAL immigrants monitored and supervised while here until becoming a US Citizen or returning to their country of origin. As Arellano and the Mexican Senate prove, our open borders are a NO WIN situation for the United States, her people, and sovereignty. We will be criticized for keeping them open, and criticized for closing them. So, criticism should not be a factor.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 26, 2007 09:35 PM

Voting Records
See YOUR politicians’ grade cards: politician immigration grade cards

Posted by: d.a.n at August 27, 2007 11:13 AM

d.a.n.,

If you are going to refuse to reply to the issues I point out, then so be it. However, there is escaping certain realities.

The responsibility for the immigration issue being what it is, still rests on our own heads…or more accurately, on the heads of past Americans who have continually manipulated the Mexican economy and taken advantage of the artificial disparity.

When the English colonial period began on the east coast, Mexico (New Spain) was head and shoulders above those colonies in wealth and economic depth, breadth and trade.

Granted, that was the result of some rather nefarious tactics to exploit and rob wealth from the Indians in the region, but what we are now engaged in is no better.

There are many out there like Arellano. They are themselves desparately trying to become citizens as fast as they can. Often, they have children for whom they are the only parent and that are citizens and are legally entitled to be here! When we drag our feet and don’t process them fast enough until they eventualy fall on the other side of the equation and get deported, we make their children wards of the state.

How is that even morally acceptable?

The immigration issue is a distaction issue.

There will never be any meaningful change until powerful, well monied entities like DR Horton Homes and Centex stop profitting from the current status quo. The current housing market slow down might help, but in the meantime, there will be those who are getting fooled and manipulated such as those who put together your “immigration report card” and those rediculous, fooled clowns who are part of the “minute men.”

There is ONLY ONE SOLUTION:
The standard of living in Mexico MUST improve to be more commensurate with our own. Only then will this issue go away.

We are not being very neighborly by our past and present economic manipulations. But, the Mexicans, being the hard working and industrious people that they are, are effecting their own solution: They are working here (Both the legal and the illegal among them) and sending money home. That money is stablizing the Mexican economy and raising the standard of living there.

This problem will solve itself. The building of a wall or fence will only accomplish the appeasement of the unthinking masses who are failing the see the forest for the trees. Such a wall is, at BEST a boondaggle to manipulate influence, money and votes. No such wall is even capable of accomplishing anything.

Mexico is like a pressure cooker, economically speaking. Even IF such a wall COULD magically work to keep all the would-be undocumented laborers out of this country, the result of that would be a growing disparity between our countries that would eventually force a spill-over of the undocumented.

Hell, the Cubans and Haitians are swimming here across shark infested waters!!!!

The wall is folly. Voting based on this distraction issue is folly. Any more blogging on this issue - thus wasting time and energy better spent on real issues like Iraq and the various treasons of our current administration -is FOLLY!

IF any immigration bill is ever passed, ask yourself these questions:
What money will be spent and where? Who will profit? Will the proposed action do anything else besides the literal, 2 dimensional goal it outlines? Will there be consequences? …and what happens long range?

The single greatest contribution to making this issue worse for ourselves is our contributing to the disparity and misery in Mexico by means of the drug trade. Silly fools like Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton get their rocks off and the result is death, poverty and despair in Mexico. Sure, there are drug problems in Latin America, but the Market profitiability that funds the corruption, the guns and the whole drug trade comes from the US. Our indulgent, irresponsible and spoiled rotten teenagers (and older) are feeding the monster that is more directly connected with the immigratioin issue than anyone wants to admit.

The War on Drugs only helps the profitability. Legalizing and regulating is the ONLY viable solution.

Posted by: RGF at September 5, 2007 03:13 PM

RGF wrote: The wall is folly.

It’s not a wall. It’s a fence and technology. It would cost $10 Billion per year. Since illegal immigration cost Americans $70 Billion annually in NET losses, Americans will be saving $60 Billion annually.

RGF wrote: If you are going to refuse to reply to the issues I point out, then so be it.

I’ve addressed all of your points. Just look here for the answers.

RGF wrote: Hell, the Cubans and Haitians are swimming here across shark infested waters!!!!

So that means we should let everyone come here illegally?

RGF wrote: IF any immigration bill is ever passed, ask yourself these questions: What money will be spent and where? Who will profit?

Securing our borders will save the American tax payers $60 Billion (or more) annually, eliminate 3.6 to 26 homicides daily, eliminate spread of disease, and displacement of jobs taken by illegal aliens.

RGF wrote: The War on Drugs only helps the profitability. Legalizing and regulating is the ONLY viable solution.

Regulating? ONLY? I’m not so sure about that. Selling herion, cocaine, etc. to children should be a crime. Border security would cut down the drug trade and illegal trespassers significantly. Congress has already passed a BILL to build a fence. Now they need to do it. That is also what most Americans want. Fortunately, that last shamnesty BILL was stopped in its tracks. I’m pleased to see so many Americans get upset enough about something to try to put a stop to it.

RGF wrote: The immigration issue is a distaction issue.

Tell that to the people (up to 26 per day) murdered by illegal aliens. Tell it to the Americans losing $70 Billion annually due to illegal immigration. And that does not even include the cost of crime, thousands of homicides per year, disease, and 2.6 million displaced jobs.

RGF wrote: we make their children wards of the state.

No we don’t. They should take their children with them back where they came from. They are using their children as anchor babies to abuse deficiencies in our laws.

RGF wrote: There are many out there like Arellano. They are themselves desparately trying to become citizens as fast as they can.

We can’t let everyone come here. It’s that simple. There are too many illegal aliens here already. Congress’ refusal to do anything about it (and Iraq) may be why Congress has a dismal 18% approval rating (tied with the lowest rating ever). I hope enough voters are getting sick of Do-Nothing Congress and refuse to vote for any politicians that: I don’t know who I’ll vote for in Nov-2008, but it won’t be any politicians that:

• (1)refuses to secure the borders and ports.
• (2)refuses to enforce existing immigration laws.
• (3)refuses to get us out of Iraq soon.
• (4)refuses to cut spending, pork-barrel,and waste.
• (5)perpetuates inflation and excessive money printing.
• (6)su