The Real 2008 Election X Factor: Tom Tancredo

Let’s hope immigration is not decided in Congress these next two years, but debated, live, on stage, at the presidential debates — for all Americans to see as contenders unleash their true views on prime time news. Immigration could very well be the determining centerpiece of the 2008 presidential election — no other issue so threatens the existence of our country.

Illegal immigration is out of control. No end is in sight. Legalizing all illegal aliens does nothing: porous borders will bring more. Erecting huge walls does nothing: over 12 million illegal aliens remain. At this rate, immigration reform will not happen until the situation is nightmarish and all Americans understand illegal immigration’s unavoidable consequences. Illegal immigration will only be solved once we have draconian changes: a huge gate along each border. But, which politicians now in office would advocate that? Too few. Political realities force politicians to understand that they risk alienating the fastest growing electorate: Hispanics.

Let’s hope immigration remains in the 2006-2008 Congressional session as Tamar Jacoby, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, claims it was in the 2006 midterm race: "the dog that didn’t bark." Then the issue will indeed flare up in 2008. If illegal immigration remains unsolved, determined Congressman Tom Tancredo threatens running in the GOP primaries forcing immigration as the main event. He previously told The Des Moines Register: "[I]f I can help elevate this issue to where it really does command the debate, I will have done my job. If no one else will take up this issue in the presidential campaign, then I will." He is still keeping this "option open." Conservative Republicans feeling that the Republican Party has abandoned its true principles will surely abandon voting for McCain or Giuliani in the primaries. Plus it is usually more polarized citizens who vote in the primaries giving Tancredo a shot. Now there’s talk that the 700 mile border fence approved by Congress last month will not be built. UPI reports: "The incoming U.S. Congress will review the law mandating 700 miles of fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, and may seek to scrap the plan altogether."

Good. Crime skyrocketed, healthcare system bankrupted, national language -- English -- diluted, wages dropped, and jobs stolen -- the inescapable aftermath of massive, unassimilated illegal immigration. No American would see less. Everyone will finally see what the "xenophobes," "bigots," and "nativists" see now.

In the words of Lenin: "Sometimes--history needs a push."

And it's immigration propelling to the top the possible Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo.

Posted by Mike Tate at November 30, 2006 10:11 AM
Comments
Comment #197018

while i agree almost entirely with your post,

” Immigration could very well be the determining centerpiece of the 2008 presidential election — no other issue so threatens the existence of our country.”

i must strongly disagree with the latter section of this statement. i believe i understand your intention - to emphasize the magnitude of this dilemma. however, there are several other pressing problems we must face, concurrently.

the war in iraq is of great importance, as it is weakening us greatly and in many different areas;
the war on our constitution is undermining any reason for saving this country in the first place (there is no greater battle to fight than for one’s own freedom); finally, the whoring out of our government - which is arguably the underlying factor which subsumes all others.

this said, we must start somewhere… and if i cannot find a candidate willing to confront governmental corruption, i will surely take greater interest in mr. tancredo.

thanks for the intel.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 30, 2006 11:25 AM
Comment #197019

The wall to keep the illegals out is only partially funded. The way the pro-illegal, politically correct left will kill the wall is not allow any more funding to go to construction. They will quietly kill it off while claiming their new laws against employers will stop immigration.

All slight of hand to allow the illegals to flow. we now have cities all across the US that refuse to even deal with illegals, they provide them sanctuary because the government has failed in it’s responsiblity to secure the boarders.

Posted by: Stephen at November 30, 2006 11:27 AM
Comment #197020

Mike Tate,

“no other issue so threatens the existence of our country.”

I do agree that immigration is very important but let’s not get carried away.

Crime skyrocketing is not tied to immigration. It’s the social breakdown that many areas of the country, even those with little to no immigration problems experience.
Mexicans are an easy scapegoat though.

Healthcare system is facing difficulties because it was designed by pharmaceutical companies and the Republican lawmakers who need their money to get reelected, kinda like the Energy commission dictating energy policy and the insurance industry setting policies that help them but hurt the consumers(us).

English diluted is too ridiculous to address. It’s thrown out there to spark irrational fear in people already predisposed to not liking immigrants(bigots). It sounds funny to anyone with even the slightest bit of common sense and an education.

Wages drop because the wealthy CEOs are keeping more of the money their companies pull in as profit and share less with middle management and their workers. Check facts please.

Jobs are not being stolen they’re being given away, by your representatives.

Why not say Mexicans are boogeymen who steal babies and eat their young.

“Everyone will finally see what the “xenophobes,” “bigots,” and “nativists” see now.” Finally some truth.

I gotta go home boy, my low rider’s double parked and I gotta get my ho’s to sell more dope to children for me, while my welfare queen wife sit’s around diluting English.

Thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at November 30, 2006 11:29 AM
Comment #197023

Andre:

Your post is in so many ways similar to the “if you’re not with us you’re against us” and all the other catch phrases.

Being against illegal immigration and wanting to control immigration does not a bigot make. If you want to portray yourself as a stereotype, go ahead, but don’t project that attitude onto others who disagree.

Posted by: womanmarine at November 30, 2006 11:42 AM
Comment #197044

Andre
You apparantly do not live near the forest, because you can’t see the trees.

Crime is tied to illegal immigration. There are many sources to show this. I for one hear Border Patrol in AZ make apprentions and many time illegal drugs are involved. Physical harm is done by the illegals to people in general. They trespass on land and steal from peoples homes and property that are near the border. This is a daily event.

Hospitals in the cities of any size near the border have treated illegals. The cost is borne by the taxpayers. The illegals go to IR because they do not have a doctor. So I and my neighbors have to pay for their treatment.

English diluted? Of course it is a problem. Extra teachers are hired to teach ESL clases. This again is paid for by the taxpayers, not the illegals. This takes away from other programs that the school should be implementing. It slows down the classes where special attention must be given to those not speaking English.

Most of the illegals do not pay any taxes. They get paid in cash. They make very good wages. At a local money transfer business, they come in weekly and send a thousand to two thousand dollars a week back to President Fox’s paradise.

Ok I will say it. Some illegals do steal babies and take them back south of the border. I have no knowledge of them eating babies. Criminals many times after committing a crime here go on the lam back home to cool off, then return to visit deju vu.

Your humor is not humor at all. Degrading females by using the word “ho” whether you have a “ho” or not, is disrepectfull.

You are stereotyping people of Hispanic background when you apply your kind of reasoning, even though you use the name Hernandez.

In conclusion you need to come out of your state of denial and contribute to solving the problem of illegal immigration.

Posted by: tomh at November 30, 2006 12:43 PM
Comment #197050
no other issue so threatens the existence of our country.

Now, wait a minute, I thought terrorism was the issue that threatened the existance of this country. Did President Dumbass designate illegal immigrants a terrorist organization? Or was it same-sex marriage that threatened the nation? No, I think it was secular humanism that was going to bring this nation to it’s knees. Or was it liberalism? I don’t know, I cannot keep all this “the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!” rhetoric of the right straight.

Posted by: JayJay at November 30, 2006 12:57 PM
Comment #197051

“In conclusion [sic] you need to come out of your state of denial and contribute to solving the problem of illegal immigration.”

Yeah, Hernanndez - think about this issue the way the middle-class white guy is telling you to think about it.

Posted by: Arr-squared at November 30, 2006 12:58 PM
Comment #197055

Andre’ your strawman argument is highly flammable. Your premise states we should end rule of law in order to accommodate all the world’s needy, or at least the Hispanic portion of the World’s needy by an open border policy.

What a crock. Legal immigration serves our nation’s and its people’s purposes - ILLEGAL immigration subverts and compromises the nation and its people’s purposes. ILLEGAL immigration WILL NOT BE HALTED without a deterrent barrier at the borders backed up by interdiction and apprehension law enforcers.

You are arguing for a lawless nation in the name of humanity! It is a bogus argument, because there is nothing humane about a lawless nation - SEE IRAQ !

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 30, 2006 1:03 PM
Comment #197057
If illegal immigration remains unsolved, determined Congressman Tom Tancredo threatens running in the GOP primaries forcing immigration as the main event

You mean the Tom Tancredo that called Miami a third world country? Yeah, I hope you guys do run him in 2008, that would be great! (BTW, I have been to Miami, if that is a third world country, then I am pretty damn impressed at how well third world countries are doing these days.)

Posted by: JayJay at November 30, 2006 1:13 PM
Comment #197063

Illegal immigration is just one of many serious problems that our DO-NOTHING CONGRESS ignores year after year after decade after decade.

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

Illegal immigration is a result of CONGRESS that refuses to enforce existing laws to prohibit employment of illegal aliens. Hence, the U.S. is a magnet for illegal aliens.

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

Irresponsible, bought-and-paid-for, look-the-other-way, politicians are despicably
pitting illegal aliens and U.S. citizens against each other!

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

Just like partisan warfare (and other common detractors, such as race, color, religion, wealth, etc.), irresponsible incumbent politicians use the illegal immigration issue like they use the circular, distractive, divisive, petty partisan warfare to divide the voters from ever forming a majority to ever threaten the politicians’ cu$hy, coveted incumbencies.

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

Politicians are well aware of the costs being shifted to the U.S. tax payers due to burdens on education, hospital, ER, healthcare, law enforcement, border patrol, prison, insurance, and voting systems.

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

Politicians force U.S. citizens and illegal aliens to compete for the same jobs. However, many greedy employers prefer to employ those that they don’t have to pay income tax, or half of the Social Security and Medicare taxes. Clearly and unfair advantage. Yet, politicians still refuse to address the problem because they like cheap labor. The also don’t want to lose any voters.

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

The numerous problems and loses of massive immigration (legal or not) are well known and well documented. Moderate, controlled immigraion is OK. Not massive, uncontrolled immigration, because it causes chaos, burdens, and societal disorder. Still, for nefarious reasons, government still ignores the problem. Irresponsible politicians would like to just pass another amnesty and allow the cycle to start all over.

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

Amnesty will quadruple the problem just like it did after the amnesty of 1986.
Mass deporation is not necessary.
Simply secure the borders AND stop employing illegal aliens. Yet, CONGRESS refuses to do that. They passed a bill for a fence, but didn’t allocate any funds to build it. They aren’t serious.

    BUT we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians.

The SOLUTION

So, why expect anything different when we keep re-electing, rewarding, and empowering those irresponsible incumbent politicians?

Posted by: d.a.n at November 30, 2006 1:33 PM
Comment #197067

David,

The first statement I made was:

“I do agree that immigration is very important but let’s not get carried away.”

How is not agreeing that all of America’s woes are because of Mexicans, means I’m for lawlessness?


Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at November 30, 2006 2:09 PM
Comment #197073

David,

Are you in agreement with M.Tate that our job loss situation in this country is due to immigrants stealing jobs?

I’m not.

You agree that the education situation in the U.S. and our ELA scores are because of immigrants?

I’m don’t.

The United States crime problem is due to immigrants?

Nope.

Healthcare problems because of immigrants?

No again.

I don’t think people should rally others against a group of people to sell an issue 80% of America already believes in.
Illegal immigration is bad, but the most pressing issue? I don’t think so.You don’t have to exaggerate and overhype the situation to get people to realize it’s an issue that needs to be addressed.
A little lawlessness aint bad in moderation;)


Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at November 30, 2006 2:27 PM
Comment #197076

I’m don’t should be I don’t. sorry.

Woman marine and tomh,
I apologize if I offended you or any woman, I was just trying to be funny.
I failed.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at November 30, 2006 2:41 PM
Comment #197082

An apology should be for more than just women. And that has never been funny, and I honestly don’t believe that you intended to be funny. It was intended to make a point.

Posted by: womanmarine at November 30, 2006 3:09 PM
Comment #197086

Andre M. Hernandez,

You are right that it is serious, but not the most serious issue.

Americans are selling themselves out.

It is a farce to blame illegal immigration on illegal aliens ONLY.

The American voters truly only have themselves to thank for it.

American voters fail to see how irresponsible incumbent politicians pit U.S. citizens and illegal aliens against each other.

All polls show that most Americans want illegal immigration stopped, and most polls also show that most Americans do NOT want another amnesty (a.k.a. guest worker program) that will merely quadruple the problem like it did after the amnesty of 1986.

The nation is facing many pressing problems, but American voters fail to recognize the root problem is themselves, by continually reelecting, rewarding, and empowering irresponsible incumbent politicians (in a sense, programming politicians via postitive reinforcement, to be, and become ever more irresponsible).

So, voters continue to worry and endlessly debate these many important issues facing the nation:

  • (01) War in Iraq

  • (02) Campaign Finance Reform

  • (03) Government Corruption and Waste

  • (04) Election Reform

  • (05) Energy Vulnerability

  • (06) $8.6 trillion National Debt; $22 trillion total federal debt

  • (07) Nation-wide debt (over $42 trillion)

  • (08) Social Security

  • (09) Medicare

  • (10) Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp ($350 billion in the hole)

  • (11) The Federal Reserve (excessive, dishonest money-printing)

  • (12) Dysfunctional and Corrupt Legal System

  • (13) Public Education

  • (14) Illegal Immigration

  • (15) Healthcare

  • (16) Tax Reform

  • (17) Property Taxes

  • (18) Eminent Domain Abuse

… but fail to recognize that chipping away at the edges of each individual problem is futile without ever addressing the root problem of ALL those problems above. Themselves. Fellow Americans. Look in the mirror, and say: Thank you!

Posted by: d.a.n at November 30, 2006 3:26 PM
Comment #197091

The results of the 06 election will be hashed over at least till 08. There are however a couple things that need to be looked at. Rumsfeld. Why did W release him when he did? do you buy the “I did not want to influence the elections” line? Popular opinion is that IF W had cut Rummt loose 2 weeks earlier he could have saved the senate and marginalized losses in the house. So the question of timing looms large.

I believe like many here I have read that both parties have a stake in continuing illegal immigration. The R’s were at the point that imminent action was about to take place. We passed the fence bill and the cacophony of anti illegal immigration voices was growing too loud to ignore any longer. What to do? Keep the money folks happy by punting this election to the Dem’s, no action on illegal immigration for at least 5 more years as the Dem’s work to undue the “progress” the R’s have made.

JT (tinfoil hat firmly in place)

Posted by: JayTea at November 30, 2006 3:58 PM
Comment #197093

Andre’ asked: “Are you in agreement with M.Tate that our job loss situation in this country is due to immigrants stealing jobs?”

Partially, yes. There is conclusive evidence as in the Construction industry, that illegals have stolen job markets from able and willing American workers. The problem will become very much worse as the GDP growth slows, as it is doing now.

“You agree that the education situation in the U.S. and our ELA scores are because of immigrants?”

No. I have no evidence of that, and I know that the education problem in America is much more fundamental than illegal immigration.

“The United States crime problem is due to immigrants?”

In part. The Gangs of L.A. for example are being populated by illegals in record numbers, as is the illegal drug trade along border states.

“Healthcare problems because of immigrants?”

Illegals are adding to it, but, even if we didn’t have 12 to 20 million illegals in this country, our health care system would still be locked in a huge quagmire of spiraling inflation.

Andre said: “I don’t think people should rally others against a group of people to sell an issue 80% of America already believes in.”

Then you would have opposed going after the Cosa Nostra, Mafia, the Chinese drug and gang trade in California. Your thinking here is again just plain wrong. We are not going after Latinos in Mexico, Central or South America. We are going after the illegal immigrants who are causing huge political, economic and Constitutional problems for our nation - regardless of whether they are Hispanic, Chinese, Middle Eastern, or Martian. Again, your straw man argument that this is somehow racist just does not hold up to scrutiny.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 30, 2006 4:06 PM
Comment #197147

I also think we need to get a handle on illegal immigration. However, there is genuine debate among economists whether illegal immigration results in a net economic gain or net loss economic loss. Let’s remember that when we cite lists of problems.

Posted by: Trent at November 30, 2006 7:41 PM
Comment #197155

A possible solution: a version of the 1863 Homestead Act.

-Live here for five years, learn english, hold a steady job, no criminal record, have a steady residence. People in this program will get drivers licenses (after passing test) and will be eligible for all gov’t programs.

Then come down HARD on those that break the law.
-Automatic deportation for ANYONE caught here illegally
-$20,000 fine per illegal hired by a company.
-Put a few thousand troops on the border. They will deter illegals and the drug trade.
-Bill all damages caused by illegals to their home country.

Andre: I am not a racist. I love latin culture. I’m in AP Spanish 4 at my high school. And I would love for the US to try to help poorer South and Central American countries. I also like my country and want it protected.

Posted by: Silima at November 30, 2006 8:13 PM
Comment #197160

I realize there are more issues than just illegal immigration and I frankly don’t know where Rep Tancredo stands on most of them. In spite of this I will be willing to jump on the Tencredo bandwagon. I loved his recent back and forth with Jeb Bush over just how screwed up Miami is. Tancredo seems to be a very straight shooter who isn’t overly concerned with weighing every word he says in order to figure out how it will play on the 6:00 news. I would be interested in seeing him enter the Presidential race if for no other reason than to keep the front runners in line and on message during debates.

Posted by: Carnak at November 30, 2006 8:43 PM
Comment #197169
Let’s hope immigration is not decided in Congress these next two years…

This is exactly why America doesn’t have a coherent immigration system. Too many Republican politicians feel as Mike Tate does and see the problem as a political tool to be nurtured and used rather than solved.

Thanks for pointing this out, Mike.

Posted by: American Pundit at November 30, 2006 9:37 PM
Comment #197185

Andre M. Hernandez:

Debates usually require correct definitions.

I’m not speaking against immigrants but “illegal aliens.” You are including illegal aliens into the category of legal immigration by using the word immigrant:

The United States crime problem is due to immigrants?

Nope.

Healthcare problems because of immigrants?

No again.

And what did I blog? This:

“the inescapable aftermath of massive, unassimilated illegal immigration”
Posted by: Mike Tate at November 30, 2006 10:50 PM
Comment #197210

David, Mike,

Evene if we are talking about illegal immigrants only, which I was, the claim that:
“Crime skyrocketed, healthcare system bankrupted, national language — English — diluted, wages dropped, and jobs stolen — the inescapable aftermath of massive, unassimilated illegal immigration.” is so overblown and exaggerated to make a point that illegals are ruining the country. It’s not true.
Illegal immigrants are not the United States most pressing issue as theauthor states. It’s a Texas, California and Arizona problem.
It would be the same thing if I said snow is the most pressing issue because I live in Central New York.

As for the bigot claim the author wrote: “Everyone will finally see what the “xenophobes,” “bigots,” and “nativists” see now.”

Not me.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at December 1, 2006 8:32 AM
Comment #197223

Illegal immigration is a problem for all other states not just AZ, CA, TX Andre. The illegals are taking jobs everywhere thereby lowering wages for all. They are taxing the hospitals in most states. In Colorado recently my son was told to work his trade for $10 per hour because “I can hire Mexicans for that”. They do take jobs for much lower wages than Americans and cause great harm to working Americans everywhere.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 1, 2006 10:07 AM
Comment #197230
American Pundit wrote: This is exactly why America doesn’t have a coherent immigration system. Too many Republican politicians feel as Mike Tate does and see the problem as a political tool to be nurtured and used rather than solved. Thanks for pointing this out, Mike.

No, the reason why America doesn’t have a coherent immigration system is largely because:

  • of the petty partisan warfare by BOTH parties

  • irresponsible incumbent politicians of BOTH parties that won’t do the work to solve this, and many other problems, because they are FOR-SALE and pre-occupied with their own self-gain

  • and voters from BOTH parties that continually reward irresponsible incumbent politicians by repeatedly re-electing them.

The voters have themselves to thank for it.
The voters keep selling themselves out.

Ignorant Voters = Bad Politicians = Bad Government

Rewarding irresponsible behavior merely gets MORE irresponsible behavior.
Positive reinforcement for negative behavior merely gets MORE irresponsible behavior.

It’s that simple.

By the way American Pundit, look at this list (mostly Democrats) that voted to give illegal aliens Social Security benefits. Fortunately, the BILL was defeated:

38 Senators of the 50 Senators that voted YES were Democrats.
Fortunately, the BILL was defeated.

The Immigration Reform bill would allow people to qualify for social security based on work they did while they were illegally present in the US and illegally working in the US. People who broke the law to come here and broke the law to work here can benefit from their conduct to collect social security.

The following VOTED YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security (May 2006):
Alaska: Stevens (R-AK)
Arizona: McCain (R-AZ)
Arkansas: Lincoln (D-AR)
Arkansas: Pryor (D-AR)
California: Boxer (D-CA)
California: Feinstein (D-CA)
Colorado: Salazar (D-CO)
Connecticut: Dodd (D-CT)
Connecticut: Lieberman (D-CT)
Delaware: Biden (D-DE)
Delaware: Carper (D-DE)
Florida: Martinez (R-FL)
Hawaii: Akaka (D-HI)
Hawaii: Inouye (D-HI)
Illinois: Durbin (D-IL)
Illinois: Obama (D-IL)
Indiana: Bayh (D-IN)
Indiana: Lugar (R-IN)
Iowa: Harkin (D-IA)
Kansas: Brownback (R-KS)
Louisiana: Landrieu (D-LA)
Maryland: Mikulski (D-MD)
Maryland: Sarbanes (D-MD)
Massachusetts: Kennedy (D-MA)
Massachusetts: Kerry (D-MA)
Michigan: Levin (D-MI)
Michigan: Stabenow (D-MI)
Montana: Baucus (D-MT)
Nebraska: Hagel (R-NE)
Nevada: Reid (D-NV)
New Jersey: Lautenberg (D-NJ)
New Jersey: Menendez (D-NJ)
New Mexico: Bingaman (D-NM)
New York: Clinton (D-NY)
New York: Schumer (D-NY)
North Dakota: Dorgan (D-ND)
Ohio: DeWine (R-OH)
Ohio: Voinovich (R-OH)
Oregon: Wyden (D-OR)
Pennsylvania: Specter (R-PA)
Rhode Island: Chafee (R-RI)
Rhode Island: Reed (D-RI)
South Carolina: Graham (R-SC)
South Dakota: Johnson (D-SD)
Vermont: Jeffords (I-VT)
Vermont: Leahy (D-VT)
Washington: Cantwell (D-WA)
Washington: Murray (D-WA)
West Virginia: Rockefeller (D-WV) no-vote
Wisconsin: Feingold (D-WI)
Wisconsin: Kohl (D-WI)

So, 38 Democrat Senators of 50 Senators voted YES for that BILL.
Fortunately, it was defeated.

However, the problem is NEITHER only Republicans or Democrats.

The problem is all of them and all the voters that keep them there. The problem is ALL of us.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 1, 2006 10:59 AM
Comment #197232

Perpetuating the circular, distracting, divisive, petty partisan warfare will NOT ever help us arrive at solutions for illegal immigration or our any of our other pressing problems, growing in number and severity.

Voters of BOTH parties need to start rejecting the petty partisan warfare.

The petty partisan warfare is one of the most powerfully effective, seductive, and most damaging tactics that irresponsible incumbent politicians and their hacks positively love to fuel.

Irresponsible incumbent politicians and their hacks love to fuel the petty partisan warfare, because it:

  • It is a wonderfully circular activity.

  • It is a powerfully distracting activity. It distracts voters from substantive issues. It pits voters against each other, and pits U.S. citizens and illegal aliens against each other, without them ever realizing they are being manipulated, and the politicians can continue to refuse to enforce existing immigration laws.

  • It is fueled even more by those that love to wallow in the petty, partisan warfare.

  • It is wonderfully divisive. It divides the voters so that a majority can never exist to vote out incumbents, making their cu$hy, coveted seats more secure.

  • It is powerfully seductive because it capitalizes on people’s own laziness in which they blindly accept the party doctrine rather than think independently for themselves. Whatever the detractor (i.e. partisan warfare, illegal immigration, religion, etc.) the goal is to create a circular pattern of thought and behavior to divide the voters, to distract them from more substantive issues being neglected by the Cheaters, and prevent the voters already seduced into the circular pattern, from ever realizing that they are being manipulated.


Posted by: d.a.n at December 1, 2006 11:12 AM
Comment #197377

Andre, the problem is much larger than the border states. Ask Michiganders, Georgians, Oregonians who are having to deal with growing problems resulting from illegal immigration in concentrations in their states as well. Hardly border states, these.

This much American history teaches us: If we don’t effectively end illegal immigration, it will grow into a racist problem as surely as the import of African slaves did, or the import of Chinese to build railroads did. Whenever America has imported a cheap labor group from a foreign country, Americans responded to their growing numbers with fear, threat, and racism.

Let’s prevent this illegal immigration problem from our Southern neighbors from ever becoming an ugly racist problem. Legal immigration will not have that result, since legal immigration will not threaten American jobs, security, tax funded services, or sovereignty.

Posted by: David R. Remer at December 2, 2006 3:03 AM
Comment #197411

Illegals harm middle class Americans. They murder 12 Americans daily. That means more Americans are murdered here than in Iraq this year.

(I saw the link to this a couple of days ago, but now it is gone.)

Posted by: stubborn conservative at December 2, 2006 12:55 PM
Comment #197447

stubborn conservative,
12 per day?
That sounds high.
Data on this is hard to find.
I did a couple of studies on that.

First of all, whether or not illegal aliens commit more homicides (or other crimes), those are crimes that should have NEVER occurred, since they aren’t supposed to be here to begin with.

Voters are culpable too, because the voters keep rewarding and empowering irresponsible incumbent politicians that refuse to enforce existing laws, and essentially, despicably, pit U.S. citizens and illegal aliens against each other.

At any rate, increased crime rates is a typical result of massive, uncontrolled immigration (legal or not). Figures are very difficult to find directly, but it can be conservatively estimated using data from two sources:
(1) By the end of 2005, there were an estimated 12 million illegal aliens in the U.S. With existing data, and using the murder rates in Brazil, Mexico, Salvador, China, and 39 other nations, and the Census Bureau estimate of 8.7 million illegal aliens (in the year 2000), and assuming those crime rates are the same here as in those nations, then the total annual homicides in the U.S. by illegal aliens are between 1408 to 2510 homicides.
The total U.S. prison population in 2004 was 2.2 million.
The average stay in prison for each illegal alien is 21 months.
29% of all prisoners are illegal aliens (about 638,000 of 2.2 million).
Some estimates place that percentage of illegal aliens at 33%, but let’s use the smaller 29% for now.
In 2004, there were 16,528 homicides in the U.S.
The U.S. population is about 300 million (as of NOV-2006).
(2) In GAO Report 5646, for a study group of 55,322 illegal aliens (imprisoned for many different crimes), there were 5992 homicides over a period of 57 years in CA, TX, and AZ (between 1947 and 2004). That is an average homicide rate of 105.12 homicides per year (i.e. 5992 homicides/57 years).
The study group is only 8.67% of the total of number of illegal aliens in prison.
Therefore (638,000 / 55,322) = 11.53 which means the study group of 55,322 was 11.53 times smaller than the total incarcerated illegal aliens. So, multiplying 11.53 times the average annual homicide rate of 105.12 = 1212 homicides per year by illegal aliens.
That is a bit conservative, since most crimes started occurring after 1990.
But, that number of 1212 helps corroborate the number 1408 determined above.
But, let’s split the difference: 1310 = (1212 + 1408) / 2 .
1310 homicides per year / 12 million illegal aliens = 0.0001092 homicides per illegal alien per year.
16528 homicides per year / 300 million U.S. citizens = 0.000055093 homicides per U.S. citizen per year.
1.9814 = ( 0.0001092 / 0.000055093 )
Even if the smallest estimate of 1212 homicides per year is used, the average is: 1.83 = ( 1212 / 12 million ) / 0.000055093
Therefore, the homicide rate by illegal aliens is about 2 times higher than those by U.S. citizens.
That is an average.
It does not mean that is true in all areas.
However, there are regions where it is extremely obvious. For example, in Los Angeles (in 2004), 95% of all arrest warrants for homicide are for illegal aliens.

Still, those are crimes that should have NEVER occurred.

While crime is an important issue, there are other burdens being shifted onto U.S. tax payers.

However, this problem is only one of many symptoms of a more fundamental problem, is unlikely to ever be resolved by continually rewarding and empowering irresponsible incumbent politicians by repeatedly re-electing them.

Stop re-electing those politicians that are depciably pitting you and illegal aliens against each other, and keep ignoring you and the vast majority of voters that want illegal immigration stopped and they also don’t want anohter amnesty like the one in 1986 (which quadrupled the problem),

Posted by: d.a.n at December 2, 2006 6:45 PM
Comment #197496

d.a.n:

Let me know if you find those sites. The reason why incumbents are re-elected is because their opponents will be worse. Vote for the better one. It is better than not voting at all.

That is why the Republicans lost Congress. Influencal conservative figures like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck started bashing the Republicans and people called them and said “I’m not voting, they are both bad.” The talk radio hosts would insist (perhaps realizing the disaster they created(: “No, No. You’ve got to vote.” But the damage was already done. On the bright side, the Republicans were losing their conservatism. I hope that loss pushed them back. There needs to be somebody, anybody, from either party that will take on the Teacher’s Union, the UN, and the foreign oil problem.

Posted by: stubborn conservative at December 3, 2006 1:20 AM
Comment #197586

stubborn conservative,

I found that claim of 12 here and and here,, but I’m NOT sure I believe those claims.
Why? Because that would mean that only a mere 4% of the population is commiting over 33% of the homicides. That’s a stretch.

That would place the homicide rate three times higher than most estimates.

I think the homicide by illegal aliens is about two (2) times higher than the norm in the U.S.

But, if you have credible evidence otherwise, please provide it.

That doesn’t mean that illegal immigration isn’t a problem. It is a big problem.

However, this problem, only one of many symptoms of a more fundamental problem, are unlikely to ever be resolved without recognizing the root problem, and by continually rewarding and empowering irresponsible incumbent politicians by repeatedly re-electing them.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 3, 2006 7:26 PM
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