Liberal Voter Suppression

The law of unintended consequences says that the lies of Democrats will come back to haunt them. Thus it is with years of claims about stolen and rigged elections— Democrats have succeeded in suppressing Democratic voters.

For Democrats like these in tight races, black voter turnout will be crucial on Election Day. But despite a generally buoyant Democratic Party nationally, there are worries among Democratic strategists in some states that blacks may not turn up at the polls in big enough numbers because of disillusionment over past shenanigans.

“This notion that elections are stolen and that elections are rigged is so common in the public sphere that we’re having to go out of our way to counter them this year,” said Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist.  ~nytimes

This is not really unexpected is it? Tell folks that their vote was stolen election after election and wouldn't you expect that they would become dissillusioned? The problem is that there have been no stolen elections, and thus the lie works against the liars. Democrats are unable to triumph against the 'election riggers' because there's nothing to correct.

Donna Brazile's quote says it all. Who propagates and encourages the, "notion that elections are stolen and rigged?" Oh, I don't know...

Mark Crispin Miller: “Kerry Told Me He Now Thinks the Election Was Stolen”  ~democracynow.org

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The myth of fair elections in America  ~observer.guardian.co.uk

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Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.  ~Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

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In every national American election since Reconstruction, every election since the Voting Rights Act passed in 1965, voters – particularly African American voters and other minorities – have faced calculated and determined efforts at intimidation and suppression.  ~pfaw.org

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As investigative reporters based in Columbus, Ohio, we witnessed first-hand, up close and personal, exactly how the 2004 election was stolen, and how it will most likely be done in 2008. In the precinct in which Harvey Wasserman grew up, and in the one where Bob Fitrakis now lives, we saw the well-funded, profoundly cynical and deadly effective mechanisms by which the Bush-Cheney-Rove-Blackwell GOP machine switched a victory for John Kerry to an easily-repeatable defeat for democracy.  ~commondreams.org

Democrats are having to go out of their way to counter their own propaganda. The constant lies and conspiracy theories about voter disenfranchisement becomes even more pronounced when you consider the fact that nearly all the 'evidence' of voter suppression comes from districts and polling places controlled entirely by Democrats. I wonder why no one ever questions why that is?

Being told that your vote isn't counted in election after election is supposed to create outrage-- to fire up and inspire Democratic voters to defeat the 'hateful voter intimidating and suppressing GOP enemy'. But does it? I suspect it does to some extent, but it also dis-inspires voters at the same time. When these dis-inspired voters don't show up to vote-- viola... proof of voter suppression!

Election Predictions

The 2006 election will be stolen! At least, Democrats will have no choice but to foster this lie after they fail to take control of either branch of congress. What else do they have to explain why they continue to lose elections? It can't be their defective and unappealing political ideology.


Posted by Eric Simonson at October 28, 2006 4:00 PM
Comments
Comment #191174

Eric

You are right. It would be funny if it were not so destructive of democracy. The Dems have pushed the line that elections are stolen for so long that it could well supress their own vote.

Why should Dems vote if the more clever Republicans will figure out a way to win anyway? If the Dems believe that, perhaps they should stay home. So Dems have a problem. Either they admit they were lying before or they encourage apathy.

Hoisted on their own petard, or as us former Star Trek fans sometimes mistakenly say “Picard”

Posted by: Jack at October 28, 2006 4:43 PM
Comment #191176

Eric,
You are so right! The Democrat message that some votes do not count is a powerful reason for Democrats to get discouraged.

I won’t try to counter all the hateful blather in your post. I will say however, that the republicans have handed the Democratic voter all she or he needs to get FIRED UP this year.

Thanks, Bush administration neocons, for your disastrously inept and bungling time in office.

Posted by: Steve Miller at October 28, 2006 4:47 PM
Comment #191178

Eric,

You would think that the Dems…instead of scaring their base with stories of “stolen elections” and “your vote doesn’t count”…would tell their people that the elections are absolutely fair and that EVERY vote counts. It only makes sense.

You know, that’s the funny thing about lies and sensationalism. They usually come back to bite you on the ass.

I posted here a couple of months ago about how the Dems already had their excuses in place for losing…if they do lose. I still have the emails from the Dem HQ and will post them if you want.

Memo to Dems:

Change the message before your base decides all the elections are rigged and their vote doesn’t count anyway. They’ll stay at home and we’ll have Rep majorities in both houses for the next two years. Again.

Posted by: Jim T at October 28, 2006 4:51 PM
Comment #191180

Steve Miller,

It’s rather ironic to me that all Dems can say about Bush is that he and his administration is incompetant…incompetant…incompetant.

But now you’re saying that they are competant enough to rig all the elections in 2000, 2002 and 2004.

Hmmmmmmm….

Posted by: Jim T at October 28, 2006 5:00 PM
Comment #191191
The constant lies and conspiracy theories about voter disenfranchisement becomes even more pronounced when you consider the fact that nearly all the ‘evidence’ of voter suppression comes from districts and polling places controlled entirely by Democrats. I wonder why no one ever questions why that is?

Eric,

Please show me any district in America whose polling place is “controlled” by one party or another. I’d really like to see an example of a place where polls are controlled by just one party.

Obviously, some districts have larger numbers of Republican or Democrat voters. But if you were planning to skew the results of an election, why would you try and alter the vote in a Republican district? Before you answer that, please do a common sense check on yourself.

Posted by: Burt at October 28, 2006 5:57 PM
Comment #191193

Jim T,
You must have me confused with another Steve Miller. I agree with Eric’s assertion that Democrats could be discouraged by the message that their votes may not count.

As for lies and sensationalism coming back to bite you on the ass, Just look at how the republican message of fear is losing it’s effectiveness as a campaign strategy. If the Republicans lose in this election (and I think they probably will) it will be mostly due to their own lies and sensationalism coming back on them. Oops.

Posted by: Steve Miller at October 28, 2006 6:06 PM
Comment #191195

The election wasn’t stolen in 2000, it was given to Bush, by the Supreme Court, which had no legal reason to stop the count. As far as 2004 and Ohio just a little vote fixing. To late to cry about it now.

Posted by: KT at October 28, 2006 6:25 PM
Comment #191198

The Republicans own the voting machines. Democrats are not the liars, and you know it very well. The Republicans have stolen every election since 2000, and will probably steal this one too. I wish to God I’d never voted for Reagan and Nixon. Thank God I didn’t vote for the shrub.

Posted by: JimD at October 28, 2006 6:57 PM
Comment #191210

Steve Miller,

Oh, I think you’re right. The message of fear has lost a lot of its strength. Reps need another message…and it’s too bad (through lack of action) it’s not immigration. If they would have grown a backbone and taken a stand, this could have been their defining message.

Posted by: Jim T at October 28, 2006 7:35 PM
Comment #191214

Yes, Eric, by all means, let’s discount the electronic machines without verification of their tallies by physical record, which will break down, which will be stored and handled in highly NON Recommended ways, and let’s do discount registration calmities and missing write in ballots, all before the election is even conducted. That way, when these things occur, we can all just ignore them and chalk it up to American ineptitude which can’t run an election even as well as the Iraqis.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 28, 2006 7:41 PM
Comment #191215

Oh, and let’s do expose the elephant in the room, Eric. If the party’s were on the opposite feet in 2000 and 2004, it would have been Republicans clamoring for fairer and more accountable elections and many yelling how their GOP was ripped of yet again by the Activist Supreme Court, and incompetents running the precinct apparatus.

If the polls don’t approximate the actual returns, there are, legitimate reasons for a crisis in confidence which will follow, regardless of whether the outcome benefits the right or the left. If on the other hand, the returns approximate the polls, some will scream, but the crisis in confidence will be forestalled for another election day.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 28, 2006 7:47 PM
Comment #191224

David R,

Good point, didn’t the Republicans in Texas gerrymander the districts for that very reason?

Of course, that’s not to mention the selling of their votes in Congress.

Posted by: gergle at October 28, 2006 8:32 PM
Comment #191225

David

The polls are generic polls. You have to be sure to look at race-by-race polls. Those show a much closer election.

Re the presidential race, it was very much in line with the majority of polls in the days before. There really was no surprise except to those engaged in wishful thinking.

IF Kerry had won Ohio - BTW - it woudl have been an upset and a surprise based on the polls.

There is also a problem with the polls. More people say they will vote Demk, but they are not serious people. More Republicans actually go out and vote.

I was a poll watcher in the last election. I behaved in a perfectly honest way and so did my Dem counterpart. If someone cheated, she was much smarter than any of us AND managed to keep it all a secret except from the foilheads to this day.

I really believe the Dem claims of conspiracy are dishonest and harmful to democracy. It would be poetic justice if their deception came back to punish them, as Eric says.

One more thing, before the 2004 election I wrote a post on this blog saying that I would support whomever was elected president. I said I hoped it was not close. It was NOT close, but most of the Dems were not up to the standard I set.

Posted by: Jack at October 28, 2006 8:34 PM
Comment #191242

KT,

1) The US Supreme Court did have a right to stop the counting, it’s called the 14th Amendment. Changing what constitutes a vote after the fact would have violated that law and it is precisely what was going on.

2) If the voting had continued Bush still would have won.

Get over it and Move On.

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 28, 2006 9:36 PM
Comment #191252

Oh, but if the shoe were on the other foot, you Republicans would be much more concerned about fair elections. The hypocrisy here is astounding.

Posted by: Trent at October 28, 2006 11:14 PM
Comment #191253

Keep burying your heads in the sand. You shouldn’t mind if Hugo Chavez is counting the ballots right?

Posted by: Burt at October 28, 2006 11:21 PM
Comment #191257

Interesting points everybody illogical but interesting. So democrats are giving up just going to throw away their opportunity to try and shift power change a flawed system. Not likely, how about this spin, Republican scandal has disillusioned their once strong conservative christian base.
Democrats have every reason to doubt republicans denial or their yerning for a fair race.
Here is a quote from the all time Republican champion of election day fairness.
”But … I had to win… . The important thing is to win.” You all know Richard Nixon, right? Oh and what exactly is he justifying here?
Thats right, watergate. So dont put on like Republicans are just the unfortunate victims of misaccusations. American voters have every reason not to trust you. Here is a link if you would like to educate yourselves on traditional Republican election tactics.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5DA153CF935A15757C0A961948260&sec=&pagewanted=2

Posted by: Aaron at October 28, 2006 11:32 PM
Comment #191274

What a great example of the chickens coming home to roost. If the Democrats don’t win, all they’ll do is find someplace to accuse the Republicans of stealing the elections and further dishearten thier own base, setting the stage for even more apathy and more defeats. If they do win, then maybe we can finally have an end to all this damned “they stole the election” whining that sounds like a broken record. I’m already starting to stockpile cheese for my democrat freinds on the off chance they don’t get the house.

Posted by: 1LT B at October 29, 2006 6:58 AM
Comment #191280

gergle,

You point to republicans gerrymander districts in Texas. Do you know anything about Texas besides what the left wing tells you to think?

It’s very very conservative and republicans. But democrats have had a strong foothold through the use of gerrymandering districts. It’s getting closer not to REALLY representing the conservative nature of texast but not quite there yet.

What I’m saying in case you have trouble seeing through the left wing koolaide is that democrats are really complaigning about losing the state they so gerrymandered that they would sweep elections in a state where they were a clear minority. Democrats are complaigning about their own gerrymandering being undone!

So please, lets not pretend that we all don’t know what’s going on, that the facts are just too complicated for us to see through that whine of yours about Texas.

Posted by: Stephen at October 29, 2006 7:54 AM
Comment #191306

Wikipedia does a decent job of summarizing the Texas redistricting issue. Stephen, your penultimate paragraph is demonstrably untrue.

At any rate, the real issue is that Republicans against tradition rammed through a mid-Census redistricting plan aimed to benefit themselves. The Bush-led Justice Department had severe problems with the plan, but the SC ultimately upheld the plan, except for one district.

Republicans can crow about it now, but when the Democrats achieve enough of a majority to ram through their own mid-Census redistricting plan, the right may regret the precedent they established. Texas is my home state, so I have some interest in all this.

Posted by: Trent at October 29, 2006 10:29 AM
Comment #191307

Whether the 2004 election was stolen is unclear to me. I’m trying to be objective about this. Regardless, there was some smoke. At any rate, I would think we all have an interest in ensuring the clear appearance of fair elections. I do have severe problems with voting machines; it has been demonstrated how easy they are to hack. David Remer, I believe, recently posted in the middle column about all this, and about how many election reforms we were promised have not come to pass.

As far as specifics go, we all know full well that in the 2000 election thousands of eligible voters in Florida were stricken from the rolls. That alone most likely prevented a clear Gore win. You guys know this, but if some of you don’t, you shouldn’t have any problem finding the information. Some Democrats do claim the 2004 election was stolen, but for myself, I think what we know is muddy enough that I don’t make that claim.

Posted by: Trent at October 29, 2006 10:39 AM
Comment #191308

This entire string of posts shows that the Republicans are grasping at straws, hoping against hope, lacking confidence in their own “party”, smacking their lips at non-existent pie in the sky…

In a word, DESPERATE!

Posted by: Lynne at October 29, 2006 10:58 AM
Comment #191320

Lynne,

You say the Republicans are desperate. What the hell do you call the Democrats’ behavior for the last 6 years? Or is being out of power not a humiliating defeat but some rare species of victory? Besides, I’m sure Rove will summon the Dark Side of the Force and make Dems think they’ve won so they don’t have to vote or hack every single voting machine in America, even the non-electronic ones, or whatever other lame excuse I’m sure you’ll come up with if they do lose. If desperate describes the Republicans, then pathetic describes the Democrats.

Posted by: 1LT B at October 29, 2006 12:17 PM
Comment #191322

I hope it doesn’t take some suspicious results against the Republicans for them to see the seriousness of this issue. But then, the Dems may pooh-pooh it. Transparently fair elections shouldn’t be a partisan issue.

Eric, what is your take on the Help America Vote Act passed in 2002? I for one think reliance on electronic voting machines is asking for trouble. Despite the partisan attack of your article, we could have a rancor-free discussion on election reform. That would be more useful than either side pulling out the standard attacks and responses.

Posted by: Trent at October 29, 2006 12:30 PM
Comment #191352

1LT B:

What has being the minority party for 6 years have to do with the Republicans being desperate…you’d think the Repubs are so “in control” that they wouldn’t be going to prison in record numbers nor resigning for “inappropriate” behavior with pages nor homo Congresmen taking pages on a rafting trip…trying to suppress all that is making the Repubs desperate!

Repubs have repeatedly not let our elected Democrat reps or senators participate in government…shutting down their bills, not allowing them in meetings…Repubs must be desperate to go to such measures to keep a minority party out of government.

I’m tired of the Repubs not allowing the elected representatives of the majority of the population to participate in the legislative process.

Desperation? That’s holding the executive branch, the legislative branch, and the judicial branch of the federal government and still having to resort to lies and innuendo. You’d think the Repubs could run on the issues if they were really doing well and holding the “minds and hearts” of all Americans…their desperation shows they know they aren’t doing well and that Americans no longer hold them in regard at all, let alone in high regard. Hence they’ve ignored immigration for 6 years until election year…and then build a fence that won’t be even close to being finished for 5-6 years…what rank amateurs!

And now, with major Republican contributors like Diebold and EDS, they’re scared of a teensy Venezuelan software company…Repubs not only spread fear, they live and bathe in it.

They’re wimps at best…

Posted by: Lynne at October 29, 2006 5:17 PM
Comment #191367

Jack, I watched most of the hearings this summer on our threatened election system. Testimony was heard by experts in the field from both the left and the right, Brookings, Heritage, and Center for Public Policy. There was overwhelming agreement, we do not have the kind of accurate, transparent, and accountable election system needed to instill confidence in the election results, especially, when the polls show the races are close.

You may want to do some research on this - the opinion that our elections work just fine, is ignorant of the expertise and research on the matter.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 29, 2006 8:16 PM
Comment #191368

all you need to surpress the dim vote is make all doors to polling places say exit, or make them open out because the way they like to push their weight they can never enter the polling place. they did not earn the title dims for nutin.

also one more reason to require some reading and understanding to vote.

next day, my vote was surpressed, I checked every box so I know my vote will count. LOL what a bunch of DA’S.

Posted by: lm at October 29, 2006 8:18 PM
Comment #191369

Now that we know how ridiculously quick ‘n’easy it is to hack an electronic voting machine , I’m hoping those on the left will take every opportunity this election to make like the GOP!!!
What would be even more effective though, would be if Frankenstein or The Tooth Fairy or someone like that won in many districts rather than a Democrat or Republican — you know, somebody not even on the ballot. That would send the real message that we can no longer trust our election systems at all. If America saw something like that happen (which would actually be very easy to do since the software is so vulnerable and easily hacked), then it would quickly no longer be a partisan issue, it’d become an American issue (which is what I believe it should be). Failing that, I’d love nothing more than to see a bunch of Dems get in there and blatantly hack the crap out of all of the machines wherever possible.
If it happened, then we’ll see the GOP completely freak out just like we’ve been doing for the longest time. In fact, it’d be just like looking in a mirror for oh-so-many of us lefties!
I say: Bring It On!!!
Failing that, the GOP has almost completely lost the confidence of the people in their own party, so if it does happen, it might just be over-kill?

Posted by: Adrienne at October 29, 2006 8:24 PM
Comment #191374

Voter Fraud has happened, and been proved. But its Dems that did it.

Remember where voter fraud takes place, Chicago and Miami, Dem strongholds. Mayor Daly said it in public “Vote early and often”. Cook County is famous for dead people in cemetaries voting for Dems. Mafia boss Sam Giacana rigged the 1960 presidential election by voter fraud in Cook county for Kennedy.

He told mutual girlfriend with Pres. Kennedy, Barbara Exner, to tell her other “boyfriend” Kennedy to lay off the mafia since the mafia had put Kennedy into teh whitehouse with voter fraud.

Where do Reps ask people to vote often or what Rep districts are famous for dead people voting fraud?


What was media’s response to this? They laughed about Chicago and still do, because it helped “their” party. The lib media thinks voter fraud is good, just as long as it helps dems (them).

Posted by: Darp at October 29, 2006 9:22 PM
Comment #191380

lm, thats right dims are dum. nutin much else to say LOL.

Posted by: Trent at October 29, 2006 9:54 PM
Comment #191414

Rheinhold, I read the 14th and don’t see a thing in there about the SC being able to stop a recount and throwing the election to one or another person. A valid recount would have allowed for every vote to be counted correctly like it should have been in the first place, and since the recount was stopped there is no way to know for sure if bush would have won or no because it was so close.

KT

Posted by: KT at October 30, 2006 7:18 AM
Comment #191417

Adrienne,

Your call for democrats to do illegal things, to steal elections because they somehow have the moral authority to do so after being “wronged” is very sad.

You really appear to be HYPER-Politicized Adrienne. You are advocating illegal activities, you are demonizing your political opponents based upon your own parties dishonest smears that Republicans are election thieves.

Ironic indeed is the fact that the hyper-politicized lie about their opponents, then they get even more hyper about their opponents treating their own lies as grounds for increasing hyper-politicization.

Is that what it means to be on this board? To post inflammatory partisan rhetoric advocating the right of one party to participate in illegal activities because they have some sort of a “right” to do so?

Did you say you were banned or put on moderation or some such thing for your posting activities? Perhaps if you look deep down at this hyper-politization ….you can see why your posts caused the moderators to take those actions?

It’s absolutely wrong to steal elections for anyone at any time. It undermines our Republic. It was wrong for those democrats out west to slash the tires on the cars of the get out the vote crew for the Republicans. It was wrong of those democratic poll workers down south to step into the voting booth with confused voters and show people how to vote by asking them to push the button for John Kerry. It was wrong to take voting districts run by democratic poll workers in Florida and claim the vote was manipulated in those polls by republican poll workers…that obviously weren’t even there.

In incident after incident that was documented and investigated, we see Democrats, not Republicans trying to manipulate who showed up and what buttons they pushed in the voting booth. And none of those incidents really rose to the level of stealing a national election. We even saw the handbook sent around by the DNC calling on democrats all across the country to come out with last minute news announcements declaring that Republicans were trying to repress voting in their district…even though it has not been proven. Very sad, the DNC telling it’s people to come out with a last minute, election surprise by smearing the other side with something they are not doing.

And then to stand up and pretend that it is established fact that the Republicans “stole” elections is utter nonsense.

And that’s what this thread is about. The democratic party has been pushing a lie as fact, and that lie may now cost them some elections because foolish people in the public believe those lies if they are repeated often enough. And the lies have been repeated relentlessly

Now the hyper-political on the left face the UNINTENDED consequences of their lie, their own party believes it and is staying home in some cases because they feel the vote is rigged! Laughable, democrats trying to convince their own voters the vote is not rigged and they need to get out….while still telling Republicans they are evil and rig votes.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive!

Posted by: Stephen at October 30, 2006 8:09 AM
Comment #191437

You know what, i am a democrate, and i want the Republicans to win. You far right wingers think that your doing such a great job, which is crap BTW, then keep doing it until the country collapses. I want that to happen now. Its almost inevitable now, given the environmentel disasters that are creeping up on us at an alarming rate. Oh, theres a democratic scare tactic! Owwwhh,global warming. Scary! Go ahead republican neo idiots just keep denying and lying. Its all yours. I don’t care. I will be ok. I have good water yet and i can grow my food. Go ahead make all of the money you need to set yourself up for the future. Its not going to do you any good, but what the hell. Steal away i say. Ruin this country, your doing a great job of it. Because then, and only then, will we band together as a nation, in the midst of ruin, to make a stand toward our future and the health of all people, on a crippled but resiliant planet. Let your kids and grandkids pay the price. I don’t care.

Posted by: DEL at October 30, 2006 10:26 AM
Comment #191441

DEL,

I think the democrats are very likely to win one or both houses. Also, you have been drinking the democratic party kool-aid too deeply. The very economy that they have so trashed the past few years they will come out declare is wonderful, and it’s wonderful because they are in charge.

I’m optimistic about where our nation is going and I don’t let radical left or right wing propaganda influence my analysis of the economy.

I will say this though. The economy moves in cycles. Bear to Bull, Bull to bear. Expansion to contraction…contraction to expansion. The business cycle is well known. We have had an expansion cycle going on now for many years. We are in fact “due” for a recession. Not because things have been “mismanaged” but because that’s the way the economy works.

And if the democrats take control and one year out we get a recession, I will no more blame them for that recession than I blamed Bush for the Recession handed to him by Clinton. It’s wasn’t Clintons fault that he passed off a recession. I remember right at the end of his term, the economy was starting to tank and his underlings were busy expalaining that the country has started into an economic downturn because Bush was president elect! LAUGH.

Unfortunately, there are many ignorant and hyper-politicized people who believe such nonsense.

What would I hold Democrats or Republicans too if they got elected?

1)Balanced Budget. They claim they can do it, they would be on the spot to deliver. Since the Democrats have NEVER delivered a balanced budget when they were in control of congress….I’m afraid I don’t much believe they can.

2) Fix for Medicare.

3) Fix for Social Security.

4) An end to Ear Marks in congress to help stop the rampant corruption that has swamped both parties.

5) The democrat parties much trumpeted fix to combat “globalism” which i believe is no problem at all and I believe they have no “fix” for it.

6)A major economic policy aimed at turning this supposedly ‘bad’ economy into a ‘god’ economy. Lets not let the democrats just ignore that they called a good economy bad….lets insist they take this good economy and make it better since they claim they can.

Posted by: Stephen at October 30, 2006 10:37 AM
Comment #191446

Hey Stephen. Thanks for the rebutal. I agree to some extent. No one is going to fix this. Not democrate not independent or Republican. The only ones that can are the people. We need to adjust. So, giving you post a glance…What exactly has the right done for any of these items you discribe? Because you do know that it is well documented that we are in trouble on all of these items. %60 increase in coruption in 5 years. Good work! Globalism is here to stay…for now. What about when transportation costs skyrocket with declines in oil and fuel production? Social security is paid with $5 and $10 per hour jobs? People will die much younger anyway with raising heart desiese and diabieties and cholestoral levels and stress and… need i go on? Who cares? This is the way we have been manipulated. Lets just pay the cost of our ignorance and wait for the collapse. The sooner the better so we can get on with the fix.

Posted by: DEL at October 30, 2006 10:53 AM
Comment #191447

Actually Stephen, I am not hyper-politicized on this issue. I, like many others simply want fair and accountable elections, which is why as I said, I’d prefer it if Frankenstein would begin winning rather than a Democrat or a Republican.
But failing that, yes, I think it might be a good thing if the GOP began getting a taste of what of what we on the left have been experiencing, because otherwise, nothing will ever be done to rectify this very bad situtation.
If you want to talk about hyper-politicization regarding our elections, you might want to look at the fact that HAVA was legislation meant only to reward Republican computerized voting machine makers by having their products become mandatory in the states. Now there is something get worked up over — especially when we know that the CEO of one of these companies was the guy who promised to deliver Ohio to George Bush in the 2004 election. You can also ask yourself why when given such an important task these companies would then design such shoddy software programs that make them so ridiculously easy to hack. Or why these machines would have had wireless ports installed on them, making it easy to hack them from remote locations using something as small as a hand-held blackberry.
Look at the link I put up in my last post. Watch the video to see how quick and easy it is to steal an election on those machines.
Read Richard Rhodes series of articles on HAVA and the problems with these machines in the center column.
Or look at what the General Accountability Office had to say about our concerns.
But you probably won’t look at these things. No, I realize that it’s just so much easier to attack people and call them names than it is to really look at the problem with our elections. It seems clear that only when the problems are visited on your own party will you people begin to demand fair and accountable elections for all Americans.

Posted by: Adrienne at October 30, 2006 10:54 AM
Comment #191492

Why is this a debate? Partisanship aside, we should all want transparently fair elections. The problems with electronic voting machines are documented and well known. The problems with recent elections are documented and well known.

Posted by: Trent at October 30, 2006 1:38 PM
Comment #191494

We need a serious look at voting in America. I have worked as a precinct inspector for 10 elections and as a special inspector on 1. There is obvious voter fraud going on and it needs to stop!

To quote the Constitution, Article I, Section 4: “The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be proscribed in each by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing [sic] Senators” (My underline).

It’s time that Congress get ahold of the situation and do the following:
(1) determine a uniform method of counting ballots that is easily and quickly verifyable (including absentee ballots),
(2) require voter identification that is tied to birth certificate or naturalization papers to insure that only citizens of proper age are registered,
(3) verify the identification of every voter casting a ballot (including absentee ballots),
(4) track down, arrest & prosecute those who commit voter fraud.

Won’t happen though, the dems depend on illegal votes to get elected & the reps are too afraid to rock the boat.

Posted by: Martian at October 30, 2006 1:48 PM
Comment #191497

Oh & I forgot…Let’s have our districts redone by computer nerds! Establish a program that attempts to make districts equal in population, with a minimum border length and has no input as to party affiliation or other demographics. Also have the routine give preferences to dividing districts along city/county borders. Then run the program for every state in the union and let the chips fall where they will!

Posted by: Martian at October 30, 2006 1:52 PM
Comment #191509
I read the 14th and don’t see a thing in there about the SC being able to stop a recount and throwing the election to one or another person.

That’s not what they did. They upheld that everyone is guaranteed equal protection under the law and a continually changing and different vote standard violated that right. They did not award the presidency to Bush, he had already won the initial count and an automatic recount. It was the subjective recount that they stopped. Never at any time did Gore have a lead or win any count or recount in the process.

A valid recount would have allowed for every vote to be counted correctly like it should have been in the first place

It was done correctly in the first place, the initial count and recount were both valid. It was the manual recount using varying standards and trying to ‘interpret’ what a vote was instead of sticking to the original standard that was stopped, thankfully. Being allowed to change what constitutes a vote after the fact is a very very dangerous and moronic precident.

and since the recount was stopped there is no way to know for sure if bush would have won or no because it was so close.

Except we do know because someone went back after the fact and counted them using all of the varying standards that were thought up that day and in every case Bush still won. Only in a statewide recount, which wasn’t asked for, would Gore possibly have won, except that had that happened I’m sure that the discounted military votes and the fact that the state was called an hour early for the panhandle would have been brought up to throw even more doubt on the election.

The reality is that the Supreme Court did not decide the president, they stopped an invalid and unconstitutional recount process from continuing. They also determined that there was not enough time because of the upcoming Electoral College to allow all of the illegalities with the recount to be corrected in time.

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 30, 2006 2:38 PM
Comment #191521

Rhinehold,

That is your opinion. I encourage anyone interested to research the matter and draw your own conclusions.

Posted by: Trent at October 30, 2006 3:26 PM
Comment #191597

Adrienne

You keep linking to the Free Press article that uses the GAO report to form his conclusions. Unfortunately the GAO report doesn’t say the same thing that he reports. Nowhere in the report does it point and say that the big bad republicans and their willing allies the evil electronic voting machine companies are deliberately or maliciously doing anything wrong. They do say there are problems that need to be taken care of or looked at.

Posted by: Keith at October 30, 2006 7:25 PM
Comment #191617

Keith, it’s very simple — the report and the article are two different things. One is an official government report, while the other is an article that is discussing the reports findings that happens to be written by two of the lawyers who have gone to court repeatedly in Ohio over many of the problems that were being outlined in that report.
In other words, Fitrakis and Wasserman knew very well about the numerous problems and all the details of those problems a long time before that report was issued — and as they said, the report was: “critical confirmation of key indicators that the election of 2004 was stolen.”

Posted by: Adrienne at October 30, 2006 8:10 PM
Comment #191620

Adrienne

So where is the problem with the electronic voting machines in the 2004 election?


Blackwell Halts Deployment Of Diebold Voting Machines For 2004
July 16, 2004 COLUMBUS - Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell today halted deployment of Diebold Election Systems’ electronic voting devices in Ohio for the 2004 General Election. The decision is based on preliminary findings from the secretary of state’s second round of security testing conducted by Compuware Corporation showing the existence of previously identified, but yet unresolved security issues. Hardin, Lorain and Trumbull counties had selected to use new Diebold equipment this November. Those counties will use their current voting devices in 2004.

“As I made clear last year, I will not place these voting devices before Ohio’s voters until identified risks are corrected,” Blackwell said. “Diebold Election Systems has successfully addressed many, but not all, of the problems that were identified in our first security review. The lack of comprehensive resolution prevents me from giving county boards of elections a green light for this November.

“I look forward to working with Diebold Election Systems and our other qualified election system vendors as they continue to bolster security and develop voting devices that meet Ohio’s requirement for voter-verifiable paper audit trails.”

In December 2003, Secretary Blackwell released results from two comprehensive examinations identifying 57 potential security risks within the software and hardware of the voting devices offered by Ohio’s qualified electronic voting systems vendors: Diebold Election Systems, Election Systems and Software, Hart Intercivic, and Sequoia Voting Systems. He ordered the voting machine manufacturers to resolve all of the identified issues or face a halt in deployment.

Diebold Election Systems was the only vendor to submit revised voting software and hardware for retesting.

Compuware Corporation, based in Detroit, conducted the thorough technical analysis of each of the electronic voting device vendors’ software and hardware. InfoSENTRY, based in Raleigh, NC, conducted on-site vendor inspections and interviews to assess voting system vendors’ security plans, procedures and processes.

A comprehensive report from Compuware detailing the second round of security reviews will be available at the secretary of state web site www.sos.state.oh.us when the assessment is complete.

Posted by: Keith at October 30, 2006 8:13 PM
Comment #191641

ISSUE SETTLED WITH NEWS ARTICLE TODAY: VOTER FRAUD IS MOSTLY DONE BY DEMOCRATS

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061029/NEWS05/610290334/1021

This New York Newspaper downplays it as they are Dems, making excuses for Dems, but read it. Each example of false votes for dead people etc, favored the Dems.

Several Examples:
“Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead,” George Stanton, chief information officer for the state Board of Elections, said in an e-mailed response.

He said an updated version of the voter list was being developed.

“Any tool that will help us maintain a more accurate voter list will be considered for use,” he said.

Among the Journal’s findings:

- There were dead people on the voter rolls in all of New York’s 62 counties and people in as many as 45 counties who had votes recorded after they had died.

- One Bronx address was listed as the home for as many as 191 registered voters who had died. The address is 5901 Palisade Ave., in Riverdale, site of the Hebrew Home for the Aged.

- Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than 4 to 1. The reason: Most of them came from Democrat-dominated New York City, where the higher population produced more matches.

Tales of votes being cast from the grave are part of election lore. Last year, at least two dead voters were counted in a Tennessee state Senate race that was decided by fewer than 20 votes. As a result of that and other irregularities, seven poll workers were fired, an entire precinct was dissolved and the election results were voided by the state Senate, forcing the removal of the presumed winner. Three elections workers were indicted for faking the votes.

In 1997, a judge declared a Miami mayoral election invalid because of widespread fraud, including dead voters.

And in one of the more notorious examples, inspectors estimated that as many as 1 in 10 ballots cast in Chicago during the 1982 Illinois gubernatorial election were fraudulent for various reasons, including votes by the dead.

In one reported case, a dead man’s signature was clearly spelled out on voting records even though while alive he could only mark an “X” because he had no fingers.

This backs up what posted yesterday. Right now do not like either party, but truth is important. Not only have Dems committed by far the most voter fraud, they and media publicly thinks its funny, because it helps Dems.

Posted by: Darp at October 30, 2006 9:18 PM
Comment #191648

Keith,
I guess you don’t realize this, but Diebold Optical Scanners were used to count the votes in Ohio in 2004. They have as many, if not more problems as touch screen voting machines do.

Posted by: Adrienne at October 30, 2006 9:32 PM
Comment #191676

Adrienne

And you can show me where these optical scanners are not only defective, but that every time there is a problem it is to the republican side?

Posted by: Keith at October 30, 2006 10:53 PM
Comment #191680

Darp,

I would never claim that Dems have not committed voter fraud. Whenever you get partisans involved, fraud is always a possibility.

I don’t know. If d.a.n. were here, he’d say embed a chip in every voter’s finger, but then we’d find buried corpses with missing fingers. The world is full of cheats, and I don’t think fighting against them will ever end.

It’s enough to make you want to buy a desert island and live a solitary life. …

Posted by: Trent at October 30, 2006 11:10 PM
Comment #191712

Keith:
“And you can show me where these optical scanners are not only defective, but that every time there is a problem it is to the republican side?”

All the Diebold optical scanners are highly defective because they can be easily hacked. They share the exact same problems (which all leads back to shoddy software) that are found on the touch screen machines. Indeed it seems that it is even easier to quickly change or flip totals on optical scanners without leaving a trace. Btw, it’s not just Diebold, optical scanners made by some of the other companies have proven to be very easily hacked as well.

Read this.
And read this.

As for whether or not it has benefitted the GOP, this has proven to be the outcome whenever vote counting is done through electronic means.

Posted by: Adrienne at October 31, 2006 12:55 AM
Comment #191721

Adrienne

Since most votes are counted electronicly these days that’s not a big leep.

Posted by: Keith at October 31, 2006 1:35 AM
Comment #191724

Darp, Republicans cheated. Democrats cheated. Republicans bilk the taxpayers. Democrats bilk the taxpayers. Republican politicians love big government, Democrat politicians love big government. Republicans will stop at nothing to get and keep power. Democrats will stop at nothing to get and keep power.

I frankly don’t see any substantial difference. Whichever party loses, they are going to scream fraud. Reason? Our election system is broken just like our government and politicians.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 31, 2006 1:37 AM
Comment #191741

Keith,

And you can show me where these optical scanners are not only defective, but that every time there is a problem it is to the republican side?

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html

I can go on, many publications reported on these studies (and others), hope these sources are credible enough for you.

Every single discrepency resulting from the use of electronic voting machines favored Bush; not some, not most, but all. Can you explain that? If they were mere statistical anomalies or software glitches, then wouldn’t it have been more randomly distributed between the two candidates?

Posted by: Liberal Demon at October 31, 2006 6:19 AM
Comment #191753

Anyway, come one, we all use computers, we all download (or should) security patches all the time. Why is it controversial that electronic voting machines are inherently risky? If some bright 12-year-old can hack our computers, why are these machines immune?

Why is this a debate? Many will cheat if they can. That’s as controversial as saying many politicians lie and distort.

Posted by: Trent at October 31, 2006 8:05 AM
Comment #191754

Trent,

The problem is that it’s only a problem if it negatively effects your side; if the results are pleasing then nothing bad happened and no amount of evidence will change that.

Neither side’s hands are clean and the American people should be standing up and demanding that they wash them until that compulsion rivals Lady Macbeth’s.

Posted by: Liberal Demon at October 31, 2006 8:16 AM
Comment #191794

It is amazing, if the Dems lose it is voter fraud and rigged elections by the Republicans. If the Dems win it is voter fraud, dead voters, multiple voters with same names and anything else they can do to rig the vote. Maybe they should quit whining, tell the truth and do an honest vote.

Posted by: DeLila Syring at October 31, 2006 11:17 AM
Comment #191880

Give me a break!

The “line” ??? What the HELL?

The elections of 2000 and 2004 were fraught with fraud!

Election machines were transfered around from heavily populated urban democratic districts in Ohio creating lines that took all day long for working people to wait in in order to vote, but the suburban more republican areas had sometimes a dozen more machines than they needed!!!!

We rather significant congressional testimony of a programmer who wrote ‘vote hacking program’

I live in a state that was always predominantly a blue state but went red by fewer than 3,000 votes but with over 30,000 votes left uncounted even to this day!!!!

YOUR republican reps in Washington are playing fast and loose with democracy - hiding meetings, excluding committee meetings and deciding legislative issues in a way that surely makes our founding fathers literally WHIRL in their graves…
and you say we are LYING?

Face it: You got fooled by a bunch of dishonerable political WHORES!!! they are not worthy of your support or anybody’s support.
Now, give up the false pride and do the right thing.

VOTE THEM OUT

Posted by: RGF at October 31, 2006 2:29 PM
Comment #192025

As I wrote in another post, regardless of if it is true that elections may now be hacked en masse there is a large portion of our population who don’t have confidence in the impartiality of our election system. Voter supression and fraud on some level has always occurred; some ammount will always exist. However, we must do everything reasonable to ensure confidence in the fairness of our elections. Any candidate that doesn’t support the use of paper trails, not only for voter comparison but, as a useable basis for recount [these are very different] can NOT be trusted and should be voted against regardless of party affiliation.

Posted by: jrb at October 31, 2006 9:30 PM
Comment #193586

Okay.

Most of you strike me as complete political hacks unable to think rationally or accept the obvious truth that what we’re always taught might just be wrong. I mean, people once ‘knew’ the world was flat, so let’s be a bit careful about our quest for the smoking gun to prove either side is evil

Eric Simonson’s bit starting this whole bit is the greatest example of why journalism and scholarship are rarely, if ever, the same thing. Everything I’ve read by him gets me angry because of its simplicity and lack of any attempt to actually examine the subject. No, it’s just Democrats are evil. Period. I could actually prove, beyond argument, that it’s illogical, but explaining the equation would take too long. There are Democrats who do the same thing, and they make me just as angry.

If you all want to know the real truth, and a few have already tried to point this out- Everyone is a crook. What people get angry about is directly related to how they’re getting screwed. Neither side really cares half as much as they claim to about anything.

Some questions: Didn’t Clinton balance the budget? The economy might have tanked a year or so after he was out of office, which I’m willing to blame him for in part (9/11 I think did have something to do with it, but I’m not an economist).

Did the cursory recount in 2004 in Ohio take 200,000 votes away from Bush? Again, Democrats steal votes and elections too, but some people are making it sound like the Republicans never do anything of the sort. I could point to dozens of examples of Bush, and other Republicans, cheating in elections, and we will never know the truth as to which side cheats more. The whole point, after all, is that no one ever finds out.

Those who wondered why this debate is going on, because we should all want fair elections and can agree on certain things that are good for the Republic, my hat goes off to you. If only you all made up the majority in the country I wouldn’t care which party was in power.

America is not going to be the world superpower forever. Realistically it could last centuries or collapse in the next twenty years, there’s really no way on knowing.

I’d love to make education a requirement for voting, or maybe give better educated people more votes, or maybe giving professionals in the EPA and such the authority to act by what they know is best, being that they’re experts and the last President trained to make any real decisions (i.e. non-political ones) was probably Jimmy Carter, or maybe George H. W. Bush.

That being said I think in 2008 John Edwards should be President. He’s just very sincere, and a good person. That sets him apart from the rest who have run or won in my lifetime.

Posted by: Ryan Jenkins at November 6, 2006 12:08 PM
Comment #404044


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