Republicans & Conservatives: Archives

lol, again! Thanks SE.

“There are none so blind as he who would not see”
It ain’t me, I have my glasses on.
Joe will be out. The GOP will be a minority and will be marginalized; as they deserve for their diservice to America during the last 5 1/2 years.

dave;

when you wake up, please pass the coolaid.

Anything can still happen in 5 weeks, good or bad. But I hope you’re right SE.

Here’s the poll and article you are talking about:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1174

The poll’s results are hardly as rosy as you claim. In fact, Zogby says that Democrats still have the lead. But then that’s how you Republicans report your information, from a one-sided perspective that doesn’t take into account any shades of gray while managing to completely miss the main point: the poll you are talking about predicts Democrats will win.

“Democrats remain in the lead is the “generic‎ congressional election contest, where respondents are asked whether they intend to vote for the Republican or the Democrat in their local congressional election on Nov. 7. Their 42% to 33% edge has held steady despite Bush’s improvement in job approval…. Democrats appear to be more energized to support their own party’s candidate – 82% said they would vote Democratic, compared to 75% of Republicans who said they plan to vote for the GOP congressional candidate this fall.

Another alarming factor for the GOP – the reliably conservative weekly WalMart shoppers favor their local Democratic congressional candidate by a 42% to 39% edge.

So what day in October does the white house announce that OBL has been captured/killed? With leaders of both Pakistan and Afghanistan here visiting it would seem deals have been cut and a lot of money will be trading hands soon. Anything to win the election right?

I do believe the Republicans will maintain the House and the Senate. I predict Republicans might loose one seat in the Senate and possibly 4 seats in the House. Nancy P. makes a much better minority leader than she would as a majority leader as far as our guy Reid the minority leader in the Senate He looks well in that position. Im from Michigan I beleive we have a shot at dumping Stabinaw. I have a question. If Leiberman wins as a Independent does that not take a seat away from the Dems?

SE;

i think the economy and low unemployment are deffinitely going to give us an edge, hpoefully enough of an edge.

leiberman lost the dem primary by a small margin. i’m no big leiberman fan, but i think the reps know a vote for thier canidate will be a wasted vote. i think they’ll take what they consider the lessor of two evils, and vote for leiberman.

what waits to be seen is when he wins, if he caves in, and changes his party affiliation back in order to give the dems that seat. to retain his commitee position i believe he might.

Come on, all you Republicans have got to see right through this very obvious attempt to shift the blaim for 9/11 away from Bush. Bush was warned by the outgoing Clinton administration that they had been watching bin Laden and considered him the top most security threat at that time. The Bush administration would not take the warning and chose to ignore it entirely. The incomming Bush administration was showing the very arrogance that it exhibits even to this day by pretending that they did not have to listen to the outgoing “liberals.” It is Bush alone who must stand up and take the blaim for 9/11.

Now Bush acts as though bin Laden and Al Quada are simply old news now that we have “taken the war to the terrorists.” This is a ridiculous claim as the terrorists are taking the war to Iraq and unfortunately, they are winning. It will not be much longer that the Bush administration can hide behind their tough talk. Bush is all bark and when he does bite, he gets the wrong dog.

Come on, all you Republicans have got to see right through this very obvious attempt to shift the blaim for 9/11 away from Bush. Bush was warned by the outgoing Clinton administration that they had been watching bin Laden and considered him the top most security threat at that time. The Bush administration would not take the warning and chose to ignore it entirely. The incomming Bush administration was showing the very arrogance that it exhibits even to this day by pretending that they did not have to listen to the outgoing “liberals.” It is Bush alone who must stand up and take the blaim for 9/11.

Now Bush acts as though bin Laden and Al Quada are simply old news now that we have “taken the war to the terrorists.” This is a ridiculous claim as the terrorists are taking the war to Iraq and unfortunately, they are winning. It will not be much longer that the Bush administration can hide behind their tough talk. Bush is all bark and when he does bite, he gets the wrong dog.

Let me ask a question. When the White House leaked Val Plame to the press, putting numerous agents who were actually fighting terror at risk of losing thier lives, it was OK. Now when a leak that shows if Bush and freinds aren’t lying, they are just plain incompetent, and “Stay the course” is failing, it is treason? Does anyne see the hypocrisy here. What has happened to our great nation. Why did we let Bush give it away? When are we going to demand it back? America belongs to the people, and the President should serve those people. We are not here to serve him. Allowing torture, taking HUMAN rights away from anyone, bulling the press, and the people, these things do not serve the people. These things are far scarier than the terrorist. I have nothing to fear but Bush himself.

CDP,

I think Rudy got it right about who’s fault 9/11 was.

It was NOT Bush’s fault.
It was NOT Clinton’s fault.

What we have forgotten in the partisan talking points both Rep and Dem is that it was the TERRORISTS who rammed planes into the twin towers. It was the TERRORISTS who rammed a plane into the Pentagon.

It was the fault of Islamic Terrorists…and no one else.

Not Clinton…Not Bush. It was the Islamic Terrorists.

Go RUDY!!!

CDP;

what does that have to do with the original posting. just looks like more desperate finger pointing.

grattan;

“Let me ask a question. When the White House leaked Val Plame to the press, putting numerous agents who were actually fighting terror at risk of losing thier lives, it was OK.”

white house didn’t leak her name. the state department did.

Grattan,

“Let me ask a question. When the White House leaked Val Plame to the press, putting numerous agents who were actually fighting terror at risk of losing thier lives, it was OK.”

You mean…except for the proven fact that the White House DIDN’T leak Plame’s name? Is that what you mean?

Oh, that’s right. I forgot. It’s Bush’s fault.

And, by the way, thank you GWB, for calling all your oil company buddies (including the Venezuelan owned Citgo…which you have TOTAL control over) and telling them to lower the gas prices to below $2 so the Reps could win this election.

Feeling left out? Then go to my website www.democratic-tinfoilhats.com.

Grattan,

Try to keep up with the news, please.

Plame was outted by an old windbag in the State Dept. that should have been ousted when Bush took office, not by the White House! Armitage is a diplomat with State Dept. blinders permanently welded on.

Also, only 2 sentences from the security paper were leaked, the ones that were potentially damaging to the administration. The larger context of the document shows it is a standard political CYA document that really reaches no conclusion at all, but can be used to say “see I told you so” no matter what happens. Of course anyone with any sense knows that when you whack a hornets nest, you’re going to see a LOT of hornets. But that’s better than leaving the nest alone!

My son is currently in Iraq fighting for your freedom to disagree. I say let’s not “stay the course”. I say let’s step up and keep whacking the hornets until they’re all gone or too afraid to come out and play.

Sicilian Eagle:

“The Mighty Eagle can confidently predict that the Republicans will retain control of both Houses.”

Somehow, I clearly see the rubble around the Reichstag, the desperate hand-to-hand fighting, the legions of Russian shock troops streaming down the Kaiser Wilhelm Strasse, perched on their T-34s…oh, wait, that’s the other movie script.

I can confidently predict (after carefully gauging the performances of both parties over the last two years), that when the battle for Washington is over, only the American people will have lost. The corporate gravy train will choo-choo to any party’s tune; you don’t have to be in Chattanooga to pay-to-play.:-)

Grattan Grattan Gratton you are right about one thing the government is for the people but we dont want the world owes me a living folks. We dont need socialists. Socialism doent work.

CAl and Jim T,

Your right State Dept. But fact is it doesn’t change my point. The state Dept was lead by a Bush croony. If you believe the White House (Rove most likely) didn’t know the leak was happening, you are probably as gulliable as Bush hopes you are. The point is we are doing the things I was always taught we are better than. Like secret prisons, we might as well send them to Siberia. It’s just not what Americans do. We don’t allow that. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT. It is a sad time for our nation, we are weaker than ever before. The worst part is we can’t blame anyone but ourselves for letting BUSH take away all that is good and right about AMERICA. I want to be proud of my country again, not ashamed. I am ashamed, I am angry, and I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!

G

I think the Mighty Eagle is right. Dems are so wrapped up in cospiracy theories that they lose sight of reason. nearly every sentence or npress conference starts with “Bush is(insert here) or lied about (insert here).” Wake up.

“I say let’s not “stay the course‎. I say let’s step up and keep whacking the hornets until they’re all gone or too afraid to come out and play.”

I agree whole heartedly.

Tell your son THANK YOU for me. Some of us still appreciate his sacrafice.

GRATTAN

What is your specific plan for fixing “what’s wrong” with America? How, specifically, would you deal with the situation in Iraq? What, specifically, would have been your exact response to the 9/11 situation? Please tell us specifically not only what you think to be wrong, but also, specifically, what you would do to fix it. Thanks.

“The fifth intelligence leak in four years of a classified report once again shows that there are elements out there that will compromise our nation’s security in an effort to diminish the accomplishments of this administration.”

So…. Bush compromised our security by declassifying the rest of it for what reason?

Here is a perfect example of what this administration calls “secret”

http://www.thememoryhole.org/feds/justice_redaction.htm

Please. How rude of me. Also tell your son we could not be more proud of your son and his fellow brothers in arms, despite what Kerry, Dean and others say to disparage them. I say we drop the kid gloves and start kicking ass and takiing names later. The statue of Liberty used to say, “give me your sick, your tired, your poor, your hungry…” Now she holding a baseball bat and yelling, “YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME?!!” Like toby Kieth says, “We’ll put a boot in your ass, it’s the American way!”

tim;

you guys just love the old tired comparisons. the the reichstag, hitler. surely you can do better than that.

i would agree though, that both parties share the blame, when it comes to corruption in politics. what we need to do is take away thier cushy pensions, and make them pay into soc. sec. like the rest of us. maybe then being a career politition wouldn’t seem so alluring.

I think the Mighty Eagle is right. Dems are so wrapped up in cospiracy theories that they lose sight of reason. nearly every sentence or npress conference starts with “Bush is(insert here) or lied about (insert here).‎ Wake up.

Posted by: Ryan Daugherty at September 28, 2006 03:58 PM

And he’s NOT EVEN RUNNING IN 06 OR 08.

Eagle Eagle Eagle
You do this on purpose don’t you.
LOL!

Just goes to show you can fool enough of the people enough of the time, over and over again, to keep your power. We are not safer, quite the opposite; lots of low-paying jobs with stagnant at best pay rates, iced off by divide and conquer moral issues.

I lose my confidence and respect for my fellow citizens more and more each day. Put a D instead of an R in front of the current administration and have them do the same thing, do you really doubt who’d be screaming then?

All

Good give and take thus far and in non-combative manner.

Earlier today, the Big Board broak into a historic high before retreating slightly. Unlike the late 90’s when we had that tech bubble, this time the growth is sustainable…all sectors have advanced and inflation is in check. PLUS, a portion of this performance was done with high gas prices. The market is going to continue to do well,and corporate profits (geez, sometimes I think that’s a dirty word..to me it means the opposite of the dole) are doing well.

Bush’s economy is bullet proof this election, period.

SE-

As for all the other stuff that actually and admittedly occupies the vast majority of his time, he is disturbingly fragile.

Zeb
“I lose my confidence and respect for my fellow citizens more and more each day.”

So do I. Have for about 12 years or so.

“Put a D instead of an R in front of the current administration and have them do the same thing, do you really doubt who’d be screaming then?”

And do you really doubt who would be the ones all quiet with that warm and fuzzy feeling, again?

I agree with the Eagle. But, the Bible is full of examples where God told the Israelites to open up a can on someone for their wicked ways. And like it or not, The Israelis are God’s chosen people. God said, “I will bless them that bless thee, [the U.S.] and I will curse them that curse thee [most of the extremist middle-eastern nations].” This was a promise made to Abraham around the same time that God told Abraham that out of his seed would rise a great nation. Like it or not folks, the Bible is true, and God cannot, will not, and has never lied. Some may view this as polarizing, but the course of history shows it to be true. And for those of you who think us Repubs are mindless puppets, I will remind you than in previous blogs I have taken my conservative bretheren and elected officials to task when I have disagreed wsith them. Have a GREAT DAY everyone!

Zebster,
It is a bizarre situation. Both Democrats and Republicans declare they care the most about security. It is hysteria, that is all it is, hysteria.

How many Iraqis have ever launched a terrorist attack in the US, or even tried?

The answer:

Zero.

Yet the son of one poster, Martian, is in Iraq risking life and limb for… what? As near as I can tell, the only security at stake is the political security of the Republican Party. Certainly national security is not even remotely threatened by events in Iraq. Not. Even. Close.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: the War on Terror ended in 2003. The only significant attacks since then have been home-grown affairs, inspired by resentment over the situation in Iraq.

Police actions & international cooperation remain necessary when it comes to terrorists, and always will be needed. However, the rest is not even enough of a threat to warrant our focus.

Sheer hysteria. We will all look back upon these days and hang our heads in shame.

To fix what is wrong takes steps,

step one - STOP IGNORING THE CONSTITUTION. If you want to spy on a citizen, get a warrent. Don’t deny habeous corpus to anyone, for any reason. Don’t ease the rules on torture, make them stricter. Risking another G-BAY, or Abu whatever its called is stupid. Give prisoners the same rights as citizens, it may suprise you as to what happens when you practice what you preach. The way to show 1/3 of the world we are right is by being right.

Step two - Stop pretending that Military force in the Middle East will sway any Islamic person from terrorism. For every innocent person who dies in Iraq, we leave a mother, father, brother, sister, husband, wife, child/children, and countless friends to hate us. In short for every terrorist killed, MANY MANY more are created. Terrorist are fueled by hate, why add hate.

Step three - Get away from Middle Eastern OIL. How do you think the terrorist get their money. Every time you fill up that gas guzzling SUV you pay those who want to kill you. No money, no terror camp.

step four - this one Bush will never do. Show respect and understanding of their religion. This will do more good at preventing future terrorist than every bomb in the US miliary.

In short we need to take a long term view. This is a situation that needs someone willing to actually think first, not just shoot. Might does not make right.

SE-
There was a guy in the book The Best and the Brightest who would perpetually claim, even as the rest of America caught up to the sad truth about Vietnam, that the Enemy was two weeks away from collapse.

We see what we want to see, if we don’t rely on the data. So polling data improves a bit. So what? Look where it is right now!

If anything has dropped Republican fortunes in the toilet, it’s this remarkable ability to define success downwards while things continue to go wrong, and while others continue to expect better of their government.

You want my advice? Start focusing on policy, rather than obsessing about your party’s image. If the Republicans come back and start showing results, they might recoup gains in 2008. Americans want people who know what they’re doing. They’re sick of people who just pay lip service to the needs and concerns of the country.

How many Iraquis participated in the rape rooms, as well as the torturing of innocent little girls while their fathers and mothers were made to watch, as punishment for some imagined offense against Saddam? Who can say, but many would probably be correct. How many Iraquis were buried in mass graves at the hands of a tortuous bloodthirsty dictator named Saddam Hussein? Again, Many. How many Iraqis (Kurds) were killed when Saddam hit them with WMDs? Again, Many. The war in Iraq wasn’t necessary because the Iraquis are all bad people. It was necessary because the regime was ruthless, bloodthirsty, and without regard for human life. It also granted safe haven and training facilities for Al-Quaida and their ilk. My best friend has done 2 tours in Iraq, and told me he has burned literally tons, (as a unit of weight measurement) of Al-Quaida propaganda and paraphenailia By the way, the U.S. was justified in going to Iraq, because Iraq was violating the U.N. resolution that had been passed when Bush I was in office. That resolution made provisions for unilateral military action if the resolution were to be breached. I wonder what in God’s holy name has happened to this country? There’s a reason the W.W.II generation is referred to as the greatest generation. I wish I had been honored enought ot have been alive during that time.

PHX8,
How right you are! I just love those solemn, self righteous neocons saying ” we’re AT WAR, that justifies curtailing our freedoms and heck, while we’re at it, let’s us by god torture some deserving terrorists!!

But, isn’t this war a war of our own choosing?!? Yes, yes, we WERE attacked on 9/11. Just not by Iraq. If we hadn’t so foolishly invaded Iraq, could we then say that this was “wartime”?

Had we stayed in Afganistan, IN FORCE, and dealt with o.b.l., would we have to worry about thousands (yes, THOUSANDS) of our young people dying, so the “war president” could say we were at war?

We ALL want to find and kill bin laden, ALL AMERICANS want to destroy terrorists. Are we doing that in a country that didn’t attack us on 9/11?

Martian’ son is in Iraq. There is great honor and sacrifice in serving. I served from age seventeen, with my parent’s consent. I would like to think that our young people are fighting and dying for freedom. But I don’t believe that they are. As they fight and die in Iraq, our government is telling us it is necessary to have less freedom. To endure the possibility of electronic eavesdropping with no warrants, no oversight. That we should treat prisoners with standards which do not approach being legal. We are told, if we question the absolute right of our “leadership”, to do pretty much as they like whether or not is legal or constitutional, that we are ” for the terrorists”, or that we are “blaming America”. That we will suspend the prisoner’s right of habeus corpus, part of common law for several hundred years.

If this is freedom, it’s not the kind I was brought up knowing.

As a small boy, I remember going into Manhattan with my father, an operating engineer. Dad fought in Iwo Jima with the fourth Marines. He told me, “You see that flag Stevie? That’s the flag of the greatest country in the world. Our country. America. We have liberty here that most of the world never will have. You can’t be jailed for no reason, nobody can take what’s yours. You can do whatever you want, as long as you follow the rules. Never forget that, son”

That was forty years ago.I never have forgotten what he said that day. I think that in this country there are some who HAVE forgotten, if they ever knew it in the first place.

grattan;

“step one - STOP IGNORING THE CONSTITUTION”

you dems should practice what you preach. in the case of the left, it is the 2nd amendment that comes to mind. stop tying to disarm law abidding citizens.

Both Republicans and Democrats may be in for a surprise.

I sure the [explicative] hope so, because this former Republican is truly sick and tired of this [explicative]ing petty partisan warfare, and irresponsibility of BOTH parties, and most (if not all) irresponsible, bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians

Some over here in the Rose-colored column, with their Rose-colored glasses, always trying to paint a Rosy picture, Regardless of Reality, is Really nothing new. Every “In Party” does it. And, perhaps some of it is understandable, since the “Out Party” is trying to blow problems out of proportion. Ironically, it is increasingly unnecessary to blow problems out of proportion, since some truly pressing problems facing the nation really do not need to be inflated … sticking to the facts is sufficient. But look at how they both pick their battles. Neither party really cares about the nation. Irresponsible incumbent politicians only care about gettin’ theirs, gettin’ re-elected, and securing their cu$hy, coveted seats of power.

The humble Mighthy Sicilian Eagle speaks of low unemployment, but omits to tell you many of those jobs that were created are within an already severely bloated government, and median incomes have fallen since 1999.

The Mighthy Sicilian Eagle speaks of tax cuts. Whooo Hoooo!. How many of you saw your taxes reduced any significant amount? The Mighthy Sicilian Eagle fails to tell you that the wealthy got the biggest break, and the National Debt has skyrocketed to truly ridiculous levels, and the general, overall fiscal condition of the federal government is pathetic. And how many times have interest rates been raised in the last year? Oh right … they are still below historical norms. What a crock of [explicative]? And, we all know the tax-code is already ridiculously perverted, and full of tax loop-holes for the wealthy. Politicians won’t change it. They like it just the way they have perverted it.

The Mighty Sicilian Eagle states that a housing market that didn’t bust, but fails to tell you it just started, and it will last for many months (maybe a year or more). He also fails to tell you that foreclosures (nation-wide) have been rising for over a year.

The Mighty Sicilian Eagle fails to tell you about a good many things, because a few cherry-picked pieces of data is all that he has to work with.

The Mighty Sicilian Eagle does not want you to look at the nations’ pressing probelms, because that would be disastrous if you ever drew the correlation between the “In-Party” and some many ignored problems, growing in number and severity. The truth is, both the “In Party” and “Out Party” are almost equally irresponsible. Both prefer to fuel the petty partisan warfare to distract you from truly substantive issues, than actually do the hard work required to resolve the problems. Like now; Congress is doing little (or nothing) just prior to elections, because they don’t like making tough decisions, regardless of the fact that politicians were elected to do just that. No wonder they call it the “do-nothing congress”. It’s funny how congress can vote themselves a raise or some cu$hy perks, but can never pass any of the most common-sense, no-brainer reforms that voters have been demanding for years and decades.

The Mighty Sicilian Eagle calls it momentum, and says that the voters will soon “realize that a humming economy” are all a result of the Republicans excellent management of the economy, and that the “deficit” will soon be made up by the Republicans “pronto!”

Ha Ha ha … never mind that taxpayers are the ones that will have to make up the deficits. Never mind that it is easy (at the moment) to look prosperous while maxing out all your credit cards, and running up astronomical debt. And those deficits and debt are staggering, indeed. But, they are below historical norms, if you include the worst debt ever during World War II. But don’t worry. They will just print some more money. Of course, that won’t help inflation will it ? Inflation is more insidious than many realize. It is largely what causes the damaging bubbles in the stock-markets and real-estate. Those bubbles are created by people trying to stay ahead of inflation. So, the ever present inflation is destabilizing, and the Federal Reserve and the government are no better than counterfieters. The amount of massive borrowing and money-printing is a perilous path. Even Republicans know that, but they want to down-play it.

Year:___M3-Money___$Increase_
1988: $3,928.80 $242.30
1989: $4,077.10 $148.30
1990: $4,154.70 $77.60
1991: $4,210.30 $55.60
1992: $4,222.60 $12.30
1993: $4,285.60 $63.00
1994: $4,369.80 $84.20
1995: $4,636.30 $266.50
1996: $4,985.50 $349.20
1997: $5,460.90 $475.40
1998: $6,051.90 $591.00
1999: $6,551.50 $499.60
2000: $7,117.60 $566.10
2001: $8,035.40 $917.80
2002: $8,568.00 $532.60
2003: $8,872.30 $304.30
2004: $9,433.00 $560.70
2005: $10,154.00 $721.00

The petty partisan motivations are all too clear, and Americans may be wising up to it. The sooner, the better. I surely hope so, because you know what happens when you go too long wearing blinders (rose-colored blinders at that)?

Even if the voters don’t do much this election, 2008 will be different. Why? Because the voters’ own irresponsibility to stop re-electing irresponsible incumbents (who enjoy a 90% re-election rate) will let our pressing problems continue to grow in number and severity, and the voters’ misery index will grow worse by 2008. It’s easy (at the moment) to look prosperous while maxing out all your credit cards (nation-wide debt is over $42 trillion; $22 trillion is federal debt), but there will eventually be consequences for so much debt, borrowing, spending, money-printing, and, in general, total fiscal and moral bankruptcy (of voters and government). Pain and misery is a good teacher.

Well said Califrep!
That alone would pretty much guarantee them victory if the elections keep being so close.

But then again, don’t expect them to “practice what they preach.” Ignoring the Constitution is ok if its done in ways they agree with.

SE:

“Bush’s economy is bullet proof this election, period.”

I don’t doubt his personal economy is—it’s everybody else’s economy that’s a little dicey.:-)

Ryan Daugherty-
You know, I thought adolescence was something to grow out of, not to aspire to. Fact of the matter is, if we’re winning, the victories will speak for themselves, and a bunch of half-baked cliched rhetoric will be utterly unnecessary.

When America smashed through the Taliban like a Mack truck, there wasn’t any doubt in people’s minds that somebody had made a pretty serious error in judgment by attacking us. When we plowed through Iraq like their defenses were butter, Shock and Awe seemed genuinely awesome in its force.

When we bogged down continuously in a useless strategy against a country that it turns out we had no real reason to attack, things change. We told you to get more people in there, to get control of things, not to wait six months to reclaim Fallujah and Najaf, not flip through all these nominal milestones without making sure of security. We kept on telling to get your act together, but you folks couldn’t be bothered.

As for what the bible says? Yes, the Israelis are God’s chosen people. A chosen people that got invaded, kicked out, put back in, and kicked back out multiple times, which is often portrayed, warts and all, fallibilities obvious to the world. Did you know that many Orthodox Jews opposed Zionism on the grounds that restoring Israel would be a repudiation of God’s judgment on them?

The truth is, the legacy of the nation of Israel is about more than just land. It’s about a set of traditions that indeed dominate the world today. The promise has been fulfilled, and is still being fulfilled. But to reduce all that to a one-sided approach to policy concerning the political nation of Israel is foolhardy. Like God says, do not put me to the test.

The world of Judges, Exodus, and Joshua was a considerably harsher and more violent place. I’m not one of those people who judges the actions of those times in the modern context, but neither do I condone having the Israelis of 2006 acting like those of 1206 B.C. That world has moved on. Israel will never be safe so long as folks try to apply the bloody warlike tendencies of the Bronze age to the world of the Information age.

The greatest barrier to enemy action is the decision on their part not to fight. We can encourage that through diplomacy and the proper application of force better than we can do so through force alone.

I question the justification for giving non-citizens the same rights as citizens. These people aren’t just rounded up because the look funny. They’re either enemy combatants, or very suspicious. It sounds as though some people are saying that our military is just rounding up everyone in Iraq for the hell of it. That is not the case. These people are not granted due process under the law, because they are not given protection under the constitution. Active-duty military members are governed by the UCMJ, which is more stringent that the “rule of law”. Enemy combatants without a coountry are not granted protection under the Geneva Convention either. As far as I’m concerned, torture the hell out of them. they’ve done no less to american citizens, and other in Iraq and elsewhere. If torture is what is necessary to obtain information to prevent further attacks on this great nation, then do so with my blessing. I’m not afraid of losing my freedom through wire-tapping etc., because I have nothing to hide. The only reason the Dem representatives have a problem with it, is because now if they negotiate a bribe over the phone, they could get caught. What about Clinton having FBI files for his personal reading pleasure? Was that not a violation of privacy? yet I don’t recall anyone on the left screaming about that. the hypocracy astounds me. Personally, I hope he read mine, because it probably put him right to sleep because it was so boring.

Califrep,

When was the 2nd amend part of this discussion? I want a legit debate on a legit topic. Has anyone answered how “stay the course” helpes our country in any way. WHY ARE WE THERE? If there is no point in being there, WHY STAY?

Staying the course helps our country by taking away the safe haven for terrorists. It takes the war to them, instead of letting them bring it over here. In case you forgot, GWB said we would come after the terrorists, and those countries that harbor them. To pull out now (as Clinton did in Kosovo), would show a huge sign of weakness, and we would probably be attacked again shortly thereafter. We destroyed the country while toppling Saddam’s regime, now, we are being responsible in helping re-build what we destroyed. Yet now is when many people want to leave. Starnge indeed.

And just which terrorists was Iraq harboring? You might want to take a look at the 9/11 comission report. The one that states categorically that there is no relationship between 9/11 and Iraq

steve;

we can argue over iraq all day long. the fact of the matter is going in to afganistan pissed off the radicals just as much as going into iraq did, maybe even more. remember the taliban was in charge. there was strict islamic rule. for a fundamentalist this was a paradise. we came in and destroyed that. don’t get me wrong i think it needed to be done. one would think that would give even more reason to hate us then going into iraq did.

also even though i disagree with you. i still appreciate your service to this country.

STEVE

Then why has my best friend, who has done 2 tours in Iraq, told me he burned, literally, tons of al-quaida material? The 9/11 commission is not the end-all, be-all authoritative commentary on what happend pre- 9/11. If it were, it would’ve been much harsher on Clinton for his inaction. GWB had 8 months to do something, I know. Does anyone realize how long it takes to fill in a cabinet, get them confirmed, get all of the new offices acquainted, etc.? Clinton did say we would hunt down those responsible for the Khobar towers, WTC among a host of other terrorist attacks against Americans, but impotently did nothing. But conveniently, those on the left want to focus not on what Clinto said he would do and did not, or the 8 YEARS he had to do something about OBL, but rather on the first 7-8 months of GWB’s presidency.

grattan;

i don’t remember staying the course as being part of the original post either. it would seem that it is you who have gotten off topic.

as far as the constitution.

you brought up the constitution not me. i just replied to your remark. it would seem i’ve struck a nerve.

It is part of the discussion Grattan. You mention “ignore the Constitution” because you “want your country back!”

You want a “legit debate?” Then quit avoiding the issue.
How do you expect to get your country back, if you are willing to “ignore the Constitution” to suit your beliefs?

And, the last I checked, the 2nd Amendment IS part of our Constitution. The fact that the left has supported the violation of that right and has paid for it at election time, does not mean it is not a “legit topic.”

Ignoring the Constitution when you feel it is convienent and then screaming about how others ignore the Constitution is nothing but partisan BS.

I agree with califrep

Ryan,

What terrorist are we taking it to? Iraqis?
Let me make this clear, we invaded them without provication. It looks to me that they are defending their home from an outside enemy, same as I would. That does not make them a terrorist. However there probably will be terrorist now who want revenge for what we did. I can see why they hate us now. I would hate them if they invaded us. We look alot more like terrorist than the people we are fighting in Iraq. Like I said earlier, it is a sad time for our country.

G

Ryan Daugherty-
The WMDs and violations of the past were of little consequence, because that’s not the justification Bush gave to us and the world. I’m sure you’re aware that a pre-emptive war requires an imminent threat, a gun to our head if you will, for justification. We have to have no choice but to attack to protect ourselves.

So with Iraq, the legitimate question is: protect ourselves from what? There was no major al-Qaeda presence in Iraq. There’s no evidence whatsoever that Iraq collaborated with al-Qaeda. Recall that Zarqawi had to petition mid-war to become part of al-Qaeda, and that Ansar al-Islam operated out of the mostly autonomous region in Kurdish territory. Saddam did use terrorist groups, but they were local Chickenshit outfits that didn’t amount to much of a threat to us, even if you left al-Qaeda out of the comparison.

Worse yet, there were no functional stockpiles, no working programs. That, at least, we could have used to justify our circumvention of the UN. That we could have presented to them to shame them over their hesitation. As it is, we vindicated their caution by failing to find the weapons.

So what was the threat that we were facing? Ancient history which we overlooked at the time we were friends? All the resolutions that the current ones superceded? Why the hell did we take our eye off the ball with Bin Laden and Central Asia?

The current al-Qaeda presence in Iraq owes itself to a failure of strategy in our war, to the expectation by our leaders that they could simply decapitate the current regime and replace it without bothering with an occupation. They didn’t want to hear any “defeatist” talk about not being able to pull things off like they expected to. That’s the arrogance that not only sent us into Iraq on poor pretexts, but has kept us there mired in unnecessary chaos.

If there is anything I would call defeatist, it would be so quickly losing faith in our fellow Americans, believing that we have to win the whole war ourselves, or not at all. Talk about fighting with one arm tied behind your back.

I am honored to be alive now, to be speaking of these things now. There’s no point in pining after a bygone age, however ideal, while we aren’t doing our best now. I think we can do better than what this president has done to this point, and I think having a full, robust discussion about these matters will not weaken American one little bit. We gather our strength from support willingly given rather than support that is forced from our citizens.

AND KCTIM

On the one hand, you say that the iraquis are defending their homeland. a few sentences later you concede to an al-quaida presence in iraq. Does that then mean that we can logically link Al-Quaida to Iraq? Are the Al-Quaida Iraqi citicizens the ones defending their homeland? Is that the point you are trying to make? If so, you debunk your own theory that there was/is no definitive connection between Iraq and Al-Quaida. Steven Daugherty, Thank You to you and your family for it’s military service. You are all honorable people.

I am not willing to ignore the constitution. But if youy want a 2nd admend fight, you have to choose someone else, not me. I never said anything about it. I don’t avoid issues, but I don’t care about that one. I don’t see it as part of the problem either way. I won’t stand by and give up rights I do care about, like freedom of speech, or press, becuase Bush says I should.

grattan;

there were terrorists that want to kill us for what we did in afganistan. should we have stayed out of there for the same reason. don’t want to piss anyone off.

califrep:

“…you guys just love the old tired comparisons. the the reichstag, hitler. surely you can do better than that. “

You’re absolutely right—the whole Nazi thing is a totally overused image. It was mental laziness on my part.

The “you guys” label—who are they?

grattan;

the 2nd amendment is part of the constitution, the bill of rights.

you then say you don’t care about the 2nd anendment. you just made kctims point. you only care about the constitution when it suits your purpose. if you care about it you should care abuot all of it . after all it is the 2nd amendment that puts the teeth behind all the other rights you seem to be so concerned about.

ryan daugherty
said
“If torture is what is necessary to obtain information to prevent further attacks on this great nation, then do so with my blessing.

Sadamm’s thinking exactly.

How about our other friends who torture?
http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/us-and-uz.htm

Oh and as far as the bible being conservative…

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-bibleconservative.htm

STEVE MILLER

I’m very sorry. I totally apologize. When I said thank you to you and your family for your service, I meant it toward you, not Stephen Daugherty. Please accept my apologies. Stephen Daugherty, if you or anyone from your family has served, then I am greatful for their service as well. My apologies everyone. I meant no disrespect.

califrep

Who said anything about Afghanistan?? I and everyone was for that invasion. To bad we didn’t send enough troops.

tim;

sorry

let me clarify that. that would be the blame america first crowd. at least as long as it not thier party running the country.

BTW if this is the fourth reich, you better watch out the gustapo will be coming for you soon.

a GOOD POSTING WOULD BE TO MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT, THEN PROVIDE THE ALLEGED RESOURCE TO BACK IT UP, NOT ASK US TO DO YOUR WORK FOR YOU. AND I NEVER SAID THE BIBLE WAS CONSERVATIVE. BY THE WAY, YOU DO REALIZE SADDAM TORTURED HIS OWN PEOPLE, NOT ENEMY COMBATATNTS, RIGHT? YOU DO REALIZE SADDAM TOOK HIS RAGE OUT ON INNOCENT CHILDREN, FORCING THE PARENTS TO WATCH AS THEIR CHILDREN WERE PHYSICALLY, SEXUALLY, AND EMOTIONALLY ASSAULTED, RIGHT?

Grattan
Get over the Valerie Plame thing. She had an “undercover’ name of Valerie Plame. Hubby Joe outed her and there were no threats to agents anywhere for this fiasco of Joes. Move on.

sorry for the all caps everyone.

nicely put, henry c

Earlier today, the Big Board broak into a historic high before retreating slightly. Unlike the late 90’s when we had that tech bubble, this time the growth is sustainable…all sectors have advanced and inflation is in check. PLUS, a portion of this performance was done with high gas prices.

And then our debts were called in…. Pretty easy to amp the economy when you borrow trillions. Not that Bush’s performance compares to most, but c’mon, you borrow trillions and award companies huge contracts the government pays for you raise tax revenues.

037;

this was grattans statement with regaurd to the iraq invasion.

“However there probably will be terrorist now who want revenge for what we did. I can see why they hate us now.”

my mention of afganistan was a comparison. enough said.

ryan
If you are speaking to me, I apologize that clicking on the link I provided is to cumbersome. If you do manage, you will find the second link makes the point that the Bible cannot be used to justify any political ideology.
Personally I prefer not to lower my self to Sadamm’s level when it comes to tourture.

So in other words, Bush is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t. Tha seems to be the concensus. The Libs should see if they can all lay down at the same time and have a synchronized shouting and pounding of the fists and kicking of the feet. perhaps they will feel better. By the way, while I have mentioned murder ealier, did everyone forget that Ted Kennedy should be in prison on murder charges right now?

Yes 037

We all know. You would rather sit them down and have tea and crumpets, with perhaps a latte afterwards.

Pehaps if we talk to the Muslim Extremists, they will just like America more. No! No More killing the bad guys! Stop being mean to my Jihadist buddies!

I shouldn’t have to post this, but just to clarify, that’s called sarcasm.

Grattan
Be exact. Which parts of the Constitution do you support. List all the Articles and The Bill of Rights that you support. Like piecemeal.

Dems whine and scream and pitch a fit over everything Bush wants to do, and hold things up. then they turn around and criticize Bush for not doing anything.

ryan
I know it was sarcasm. I wrote it. Oh and I am not a “Lib” or even a “dem”. But your argument is still week.

Oh and torture is up in Iraq by the way.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060921/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_iraq_torture;_ylt=AgIHLGljteRTq.ENKus72cGs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

oops weak

Henry C

Right on my man. I couldn’t have said it better. And you will notice that the report was written by the AP, and references the U.N. a lot. Not exactly credible sources. Show me rape rooms, mass graves, and American soliders kidnapping people and beheading them, and forcing fathers watch as they rape their daughter’s and I might be willing to consider your otherwise ascinine allegation.

The second half of my previous posting was pointed toward 037

037

The supposed “representative” has not even been to Iraq. And when he said torture is up, his statement indicated worldwide, targeting specifically terrorist groups, and militias. Nowhere did it mention U.S. troops, or even Iraqi troops. Nice try though.

037

Perhaps you would be interested in some REAL journalism;

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,216417,00.html

At least Bush was governor of Texas, a fairly
complicated state to run.

So I don’t know why you dems think you’re ever
right. You all voted for Kerry, a 22 year
Senator whose greatest accomplishment seems to
be blocking someone who would actually do something from becoming senator in MA.

A large sack of potatoes would have the same
effect.

Posted by: Henry C at September 28, 2006 06:49 PM

———-
Henry,
You must not live in Texas. I do, and was here for George’s tenure as gov. First of all the governor of Texas is an extremely weak governor. Very little constitutional power. The Lt. Gov. is the power base and when GWB was here, Bob Bullock was Lt. Gov (a Democrat) for the majority of GWB’s term. The only thing Bush excelled at was executing prisoners on death row. He was ineffective and sophomoric as governor.

Kerry not done much as a Senator to be sure, but a significant achievement was the investigation and gathering of information which led to the Iran-Contra hearings and exposure of Oliver North’s clandestine (and illegal) gun running and money laundering for the Contras.

ryan
Sorry, Ill try harder (sarcasm)
Try these sources

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5368360.stm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2368770,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1878099,00.html

Henry C,
“The Iraq war ended 3 years ago.”

That statement summarizes why we are losing in Iraq and in Afghanistan.

Forget the traditional concept of conventional warfare. WWII type conflicts no longer apply because that kind of Third Generation Warfare does not work for a committed, yet less technologically developed foe. Instead, the less technologically developed enemy relies on Fourth Generation Warfare, asymmetrical warfare.

The war never stopped. We call it an occupation, which is accurate. But the fight itself never ended. The enemy merely refused to fight by our rules. If you think about it, when it comes to warfare, that is actually pretty smart.

If you are interested in this kind of thing, there are numerous books in the library, including “The Sling and the Stone” by Hammes.

The tactics we are using to “stay the course” are just about guaranteed to make us lose. Truthfully, it is too late to change. To paraphrase General Abizaid, “given infinite time and infinite resources, we will win.”

We need to withdraw immediately from Iraq, and decide whether we really want to re-commit to winning in Afghanistan. We cannot do both, and realistically, the threat from Afghanistan seems bigger than anything from Iraq.

There was a time when making enormous investments of blood and treasure might have salvaged the situation in Afghanistan. Now it has reverted once again to a failed state. The government contols Kabul, but nothing more. Warlords control the rest of the country, drug exports have resumed with a vengeance… oh, I could go on and on, but it is a waste of time.

ryan
Fox news real journalism? I didn’t realize you had a funny side (more sarcasm)

and speaking of cut and run

http://cutandrunnow.com/

Ryan Daugherty-
Do you believe that the barbaric tactics of our enemies somehow bestow advantages on them we have to match? Are we somehow weaker for the fact that we don’t cut off heads, and that we have a cultural distaste for the use of torture and other inhumane means? Does our system of checks and balances somehow cripple us in the face of those who act according to tyrannical whim?

Saddam can be all the bastard he wants to be, but I want to confront the people who actually have a good chance of doing harm to America first. We don’t have infinite resources to waste on wars that don’t protect America, which only satisfy vague geopolitical objectives which have no guarantee of working their intended effect. As bad as that would have been for the Iraqis, we could just as easily have done some good for other people in this world as compensation. Are the citizens of Afghanistan any less deserving of freedom from warlords, Taliban, and al-Qaeda than the Iraqis are from Saddam Hussein? The danger in playing God with the map of the world is that we do not have the resources to fight every noble fight that could be fought.

But now that we are in the position of dealing with terrorism and war in Iraq, we should not shirk on our commitment to restore Iraq to some kind of peace and stability. This, in case you’re curious, has been the majority position of most American in the Democratic party since the war began. Although the vocal proponents of immediate Withdrawal have grown in numbers, it bears consideration that frustration over the war’s progress and character bears much of the blame for that.

Even so, most Democrats measure the time for withdrawal in years and not months. Still, we need to win, and in order to win, we must leave. That’s right. At some point, we have to walk away and let Iraq support itself. If we never make any progress towards taking the first steps of withdrawal, there will never be true incentive on the part of Iraqis to shake off their dependence on us, and take up the burden of their own security themselves. We do not need to create a repeat of the mistakes we made with the ARVN forces in Vietnam, taking up so much of the slack that the forces never had the incentive to stand and fight.

We will not win this war by bluster and bluff. We must devote the necessary resources and change in strategy to the problem of Iraq, or else expect to be defeated and cut our losses. I don’t want to do the latter. Even when its a war I never felt we should have fought, I still do not want to see America lose.

Henry C-
We invaded Iraq to confront a threat. At least that’s what we were led to believe. We were led to believe that invading Iraq would cut short the threat of a nuclear weapon going off in one of our cities. That was the language and the message of Bush’s case for war. What we found when we got there discredited the very purposes for which we invaded, leaving only the side benefit of having freed Iraq from Saddam. However, we screwed that up by not approaching the problem of post-war Iraq in terms of an occupation. We were supposed to begin our withdrawal in August three years back. Unfortunately, the anarchy we let loose by failing to fully take control of the country, by failing to saturate the population centers with the presence of our soldiers, ultimately made that unrealistic. Unfortunately, more realistic options were never allowed on the table, on the grounds that considering them would be defeatist. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

Saddam was hardly an Islamic Extremists. Hell, Bin Laden didn’t even think he was a real Muslim. He’s a Baathist, an Arab Socialist, and Socialists by definition are secular, maybe giving lip service to religion, but mostly focusing on interior programs and economic controls. This is one of the reasons why I find the term Islamofascist to be such an annoying turn of phrase. It fails utterly to make the distinction between rivals and enemies within the Middle East, just for the sake of artificially creating a mass menace like Nazism or Communism. Trick is, those things were real, had real organizations that identified themselves in a real tradition of politics. Islamofascism is just a grab bag for all kinds of different groups, sects, parties and other factions in the Middle East that folks are too lazy to research for what they are.

As for the Democrats tying Bush’s hands, answer me these questions: Who runs the military, who runs congress, and how the hell have we been in the way? You overestimate us here, as much as you underestimate us elsewhere.

We have no intention of running away. We have every intention of changing things on the ground for the better.

On the subject of stabilization and reconstruction, I’m sorry to tell you that so far, we’ve not succeeded. We can’t afford to wait the interminable time it will take for an insurgency to calm down during an occupation in its home territory. They can sit on their asses indefinitely if we choose to do that, and simply wait until we can no longer afford to continue the fight.

Your party can’t afford to wait for everybody else to stop raining on their parade, because the fact is, things remain screwed up, and your strategy in all this is not doing much to help. If you don’t like the idea of Democrats being in control, then you shouldn’t have made such a poor showing of achieve the objectives of the mission that you folks told the rest of us you would accomplish better than any of your rivals.

Get a fire under the ass of your party and get things moving, or you will see them moving back home on election day.

“BTW if this is the fourth reich, you better watch out the gustapo will be coming for you soon.”

Uh…thanks for the warning.

Ryan writes - “Dems are so wrapped up in cospiracy theories that they lose sight of reason. nearly every sentence or npress conference starts with “Bush is(insert here) or lied about (insert here).‎”

Um…is it a quiz Ryan? Let’s make it multiple choice at least. For the first “insert here,” choose one or more:

1. incompetent
2. a liar
3. not very smart

and for the second “insert here:”

1. stockpiles of WMDs
2. Saddam supporting al Quaeda
3. Mission Accomplished
4. having a court or-der for wire taps
5. catching bin Laden
6. speaking with God
7. Niger uranium
8. Social Security being bancrupt by 2042
9. his military service
10. torture
11. choose from many not on the list
12. all of the above.

tim;

your welcome

Ryan Daugherty-
Tell me something: is it real journalism to report the president is once again making the strategic error of dividing the homefront in order to raise support for the war?

All this rhetoric has done is entrench opposition to his policies. America cannot be forced to consensus by one man or one political party. It cannot be intimidated into quiet submission. We’re too damn bullheaded as a people. The president has failed to either adequately sell his controversial policies, or present policies that could be agreed upon without much controversy.

Democracies fight wars based on the consent of the people. It’s not merely something that’s nice to have. It’s a strategical necessity. Where Bush didn’t alienate folks by calling their devotion to their country into question, he did so by selling them a war on shoddy evidence, and sending our troops to die for a cause we never fully saw realized in the sands of that place. It will be greatly ironic if our starting a war in Iraq to prevent the next 9/11 on false pretenses leads us to sow the seeds for the next catastrophic attack. I’d just as soon not see that go on, and that’s why I want the Republican majorities out of office. Good as their intentions are, their actions have served the enemy better than us.

SE, where I come from the chips you are counting are the chips that smell and I stay away from.

Thomas as far as Stabenow, I don’t see her leaving at all. I haven’t seen a single ad from her challenger. Now as far as governor, both are mudsling and I was for Devos until the info came out about cutting jobs and building a plant in China, I might have to rethink how I am going to vote on the gov’s race.

My prediction is Republicans will keep the senate, Dem’s the House. Can’t wait for the 08 season to start then the real fun begins, and we can send bush the worse to pasture in crawford, texassss

Grattan said:

“Terrorist are fueled by hate, why add hate.”

Please explain the hate that caused the terrorists to attack us during the Clinton administration.

kt;

i disagree. i think if one was to turn over it’s more likely the senate. i say the reps keep the house, maybe the senate too, but i noticed your the only one to actually adress the original posting. nice job following instrustions! really i mean it!

Tomh said

“Get over the Valerie Plame thing. She had an “undercover’ name of Valerie Plame.”

Um….Aldrich Aimes the Soviet spook in the CIA for 30 years had an undercover name too….Aldrich Aimes.

SE,

You need to read more carefully. You’re only half right, and the part you’re right about is irrelevant.

It is true that President Bush’s approval rating has been approving, but this is of no direct relevance. He isn’t on the ballot, and he won’t be again.

The part that IS relevant to the 2006 elections is the so-called generic Congressional ballot. The key sentences are right here:

Democrats remain in the lead is the “generic‎ congressional election contest, where respondents are asked whether they intend to vote for the Republican or the Democrat in their local congressional election on Nov. 7. Their 42% to 33% edge has held steady despite Bush’s improvement in job approval.

It’s not just this poll either. If you look at all of the generic ballot polls, there is NOT a significant trend favoring the Republicans.

But if it please you to think so, go ahead.

Grattan
“I am not willing to ignore the constitution. But if youy want a 2nd admend fight, you have to choose someone else, not me. I never said anything about it.”

This is not about being a 2nd Amendment fight or not. You mentioned you wanted your “country back” because Bush ignored the Constitution. You were then given an example of how the liberals ignore the Constitution. Why is it ok for the liberals but wrong for others?

“I don’t avoid issues, but I don’t care about that one.”

Then you do not care about the Constitution and complaining about others not caring or ignoring it is hypocritical.

“I don’t see it as part of the problem either way.”

Losing individual rights and freedoms isn’t part of the problem you were refering to in your rants about how you wanted your country back?

“I won’t stand by and give up rights I do care about, like freedom of speech, or press, becuase Bush says I should.”

That is the whole problem with our country and the cause of all this division.
You think its ok to give away rights YOU don’t agree with or care about and others think it is ok to give away rights THEY don’t agree with or care about.
The left sat on their asses while our rights were being stripped from us. They didn’t care about them dumb redneck rights. They ignored, defended and made excuses in order to justify their party staying in power.
So, let me ask you this: How does it feel now that the shoe is on the other foot?

ok back on topic
SE
You mention approval. What about dissaproval polls? Bush is going up.. up.. up.. with his Bounce.. Bounce.. Bounce. Actually he does remind me of Tigger. (Sorry that was a cheap shot)

http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/50StateBushApproval060919Net.htm

All

Excellent thread!

KT

Great line about the chips…I nominate that crack for the Mighty Sicilian Awards

Stephen Daughtry

My friend. My collegue. The brilliant West Texas intellect. Sigh…..

How I wish you were over on this side. With the Mighty Eagle at your side fending off the liberal barbs thown at us, we’d me a mighty team indeed.

However, I disagree with most of what you posted. :)

First let me remind you and everyone of a very very significant number: ZERO

That is how many attacks since 9/11 that have taken place on US soil. So say what you want, something is working, and I won’t hear that “yes but they take 5 years to do something” malarky.

Because 8 is a significant number. That is how many terror plots were destroyed by US intelligence since 9/11

A significant fraction is 2/3. That is the percentage of OBL’s leadership rotting in graves.Don’t give me the whack a moley routine either. The replacements are less skilled, experienced and their numbers FINITE not INFINITE as you folks on the left seem to believe. Kill enough of the most rabid, and sooner or later they all die. See the 3,000,000 dead Nazi’s rotting in their graves, not the 4,000 or so foriegn insurgents killed ther so far.

Some one has to say it, so I will: We need to kill more bad guys. A lot more. Sooner or later, they will disappear. This is World War III, so deal with it. :)

That is how many attacks since 9/11 that have taken place on US soil. So say what you want, something is working, and I won’t hear that “yes but they take 5 years to do something‎ malarky.

Because 8 is a significant number. That is how many terror plots were destroyed by US intelligence since 9/11
—————————-
Do the Anthrax attacks later in 2001 not count as terrorist attacks? People died as a result. We don’t know yet who did this, but it seems to me that is a terrorist attack, no matter how small.

woody;

generic polls tend to be less of an indicator of out come. i tend to put more creedence in polls when a specific name is plugged in. when that is done the #s tend to change.

SE
7- the nuber of years between the 1st and second attack on the WTC. When Clinton did nothing according to the right. What makes you think it is not the life time gov’t people who are really keeping us safe? What proof do you have that it is an actual Bush/Republican policy that is making the difference? After all that, by your own admission from earlier post,this administration has screwed up why should they be kept in office? What happened to accountability?
I hear the Dems talking about port security, enlisting other countries, securing nuclear material, investing money in actual security not a war with no purpose. Why Should we keep republicans in office? What have they got besides stay the course?

califrep,

I actually agree with you. The generic ballot is questionable for the reason you said — it doesn’t ask about an actual candidate. I only brought it up because it was the part of SE’s link that is relevant to his claims about the upcoming elections.

I have been keeping tracking of individual Senate races and it looks the the Dems have a good chance of taking over the Senate. The House is harder to read because there are so many districts to consider.

Califrep,
I agree with you that our invading Afghanistan pissed off the radicals. But I don’t think it comes within a country mile of how the Iraq invasion has inflamed the MODERATE islamists. I think it has turned a whole bunch of them into extremists. World opinion was totally in our favor when we (very rightly) went into Afghanistan. Remember the shitstorm of protest when we started down the path to invading Iraq? B.T.W., in no way do I advocate worrying too much about what the world thinks, or changing what we need to do because some people don’t like it. But you have to admit, most of the world was amazed and aghast when we decided to invade Iraq.

Ryan,
The literature, like al qaeda itself, was in evidence in Iraq BECAUSE we were there. The notion that the leaked information from N.I.E. is classified is certainly hilarious. A child could see that invading an arab (by which I mean mid-east) country on a flimsy pretext would be a great rallying point for extremists. Osama bin laden himself said he would rather have Bush elected than Kerry, for that same reason.

Oh, yeah
Iraq was a SECULAR country!! It wasn’t even a radical islamist nation. Not for much longer, I’m afraid.

Did anybody else see the irony of Ted Kennedy standing on the floor of the senate floor talking about somebody having water thrown on them.

Sorry I was unclear, when I said I didn’t care about that one, I meant issue, not admend, or part of the US Constit. I would like to know who is attacking the 2nd Amend. I don’t see that fight on the news with causualties every night. I don’t see our troops DYING over a 2nd amend battle. I think that fight can take a backburner to somethimg more immediate. Why are we letting our troops die to defend a lie. Leaving sooner rather than later does not equal another attack, and in the long run may prevent one. Why not have an honest discussion about how to fix the disaster that BUSH made.

Bush’s approval ratings look bad when seen by themselves. But actually I rather be in his shoes that Congress.

http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm

“Leaving sooner rather than later does not equal another attack, and in the long run may prevent one.”

Posted by: Grattan at September 28, 2006 09:59 PM

Yeah, that worked real well when we tucked our tail and ran from Somalia.

SE

I agree with you that the Repulican loses will be minimal. But do not assume or delude yourself that it is a reflection of how good the Republicans are doing.

The mere fact that they will win demonstrates how broken the process is and how bad the democrates are politically.

Elections are becoming more and more a formality when the real power is in washington and who controls the media, the message and money. We are becoming specatators to the political process. We are getting less democracy.

The Republcian party is a well organized well machined political organization. They communicate their message well and make people feel good, patriotic and safe. It is not and never is about issues. It is never about reality, It is about who makes you feel good.

You gotta admit, the momentum seems to have swung back to the Reps the last few weeks, which is the reason behind Bubba’s meltdown on FOXNEWS. It was clearly a planned tirade designed to stop the bleeding and switch the momentum back to the Dems. Whether it was a brilliant move or a shot in the foot still remains to be seen.

grattan;

charles schumer, diane finstein,ted kennedy, the list gos on. thats not to say that there are not dems who are supporters, because there are. but the majority tend to try and undermine that right. you won’t see much about it on the news as it tends to be a losing issue for the dems to run on.

our troops fight to defend the constitution, all of it. they also fight to help spread the freedoms we all enjoy here, and often take foregranted. the const. should always be protected as a whole. i don’t believe any one part is more important than another, but if you allow one part to be undermined or taken away, then entire thing is at risk.

anyway gotta go i’ll come back and play some other time. sorry for getting off topic. take care guys. see ya

Duane-oo
If you read any of the Republican Party material you will see they are scared as hell! They have admitted that they are willing to bankrupt their treasury to stay in power.

“This is World War III, so deal with it.”

Thanks for at least coming out and saying what you think. I disagree, and I’m scared that anyone would so easily relegate us to such an unnecessary and avoidable global catastrophe. But we’ve been on the offensive for years now, and I’m getting used to reading between the lines…reading exactly what “the mighty eagle” just wrote in plain words.

To hear the hawks in here speak sorta reminds me of myself as a kid during the cold war…always thinking about global affairs as one big game of “Risk”. It gets much more complicated when you have people to protect, and you care a great deal about things. We seem to be living in a brazen and reckless time. I just hope that people stop, take a step back, and look at things every now and again. Instead we’re stepping on the gas and closing our eyes as we drive into some delusion of the future where everyone accepts, loves and respects American world domination.

The image may be warm and fuzzy, but it isn’t going to happen…ever, so deal with it.

Americans are so arrogant,

You think that the world revolves around you.

One can only pray that another 9/11 happens, and hopefully worse.

Such gluttons for your own punishment.

Leave the world alone!

IMAM

Leave America the @&%* alone and go blow up some innocent school children or something, nasty terroist

SE,

The fifth intelligence leak in four years of a classified report once again shows that there are elements out there that will compromise our nation’s security in an effort to diminish the accomplishments of this administration.

Yeah, and among these classified reports, the last one, partially released by Bush (what an intelligence leaker!) shows, indeed!, that there are elements out there that *are* compromising your nation’s security in a effort to diminish the accomplishments of this administration, its famous War On Terror. And these elements are:

Bush’s gonads.
No, wait! I mean: US troops present in Iraq.

Their presence and their innability to secure the occupied country compromise since day one more US nation’s security, by boosting terrorists ranks everywhere.

SE,

First let me remind you and everyone of a very very significant number: ZERO

That is how many attacks since 9/11 that have taken place on US soil.

Ironically, that’s also how many attacks since 9/11 that have taken place on many nations opposing the Bush policy against terrorism.
Doesn’t mean that they’ll never be. As for US.

Meanwhile, 2974 US soldiers, several britishs and an uncounted but 10-20 times more iraqis died.
And americans don’t feel secure enough, otherwise they’ll not anymore be driven by politicians security overfocused speeches.

Hell, more than 40% of americans believe Saddam Hussein did 9/11!!! What a disgrace.

Phillipe Hudon

Don’t bombings in Spain and England post 9/11 count? Bali? Hmm…..

Imam
Quick…name the five pillars of Islam without a google search…then I will be more than happy to discuss with you your religious philosophy….

Ryan,

But conveniently, those on the left want to focus not on what Clinto said he would do and did not, or the 8 YEARS he had to do something about OBL, but rather on the first 7-8 months of GWB’s presidency.

In 2008, both Bush and Clinton will have 8 years each to do something about OBL. Does it mean, then, it could be compared fairly?
It’s not about the Bush pre-9/11 months failure to catch/stop OBL, it’s about the Bush 6 years failure, after the 8 years Clinton’s failure, to catch OBL.

Clinton tried to catch OBL during 8 years. And failed. And recognized it.

Bush was warned about OBL 6 years ago when he take office, and promised he will catch OBL 5 years ago after 9/11. And failed, so far. And recognized he don’t care anymore about OBL (and about keeping his promise to catch him). And closed the OBL hunting US cell.
So, do you think Bush will keep trying to catch OBL in the next 2 years, or do you think he bet on typhoid “hunting cell” instead?

What, then, kind of score could you predict after 8 years both side?

SE,

Ironically, that’s also how many attacks since 9/11 that have taken place on many nations opposing the Bush policy against terrorism. Doesn’t mean that they’ll never be. As for US.

Don’t bombings in Spain and England post 9/11 count?

Sure they count. Just, *not* in attacks against nations who opposed US war against Iraq. Both Spain and England supported Iraq War. Sorry.

Bali? Hmm…..

Bali’s 2002 terrorit attack was targetting Australian tourists. Australia support Iraq War.
It count but not as an attack against a nation opposed to Iraq War.

But, please, prove me wrong and show me that the number of attacks since 9/11 against nations who opposed Bush policy against terrorism is not ZERO.
Be my guest.

I really think this “zero attack since” argument is very weak. It’s like someone repeating “so far, not bad” while falling from a building.

“Of course as more voters realize that a humming economy, historic lows in unemployment, a housing market that didn’t bust out and a tax cut that is working is responsible for much of this, then the remaining deficit by the Republicans will be made up pronto!”

————————————————————————-
Nice try spinmaster, but the facts speak for themselves:

- Most workers make less money after correcting for inflation than five or even twenty years ago. That is inflation caused by the Fed having to print money like never before to finance the huge deficits this administration keeps on racking up.

- The cost of living has gone up exponentially the last couple of years. Housing affordability is currently at an historical low, as are medical services, as is food, etc.

- The housing market is only just starting to bust out, and you already declare a bottom? Try telling that to people trying to sell their houses significantly below their perceived “value”. Historically house prices have increased 7 % per annum. To return to these kind of figures - after years of returns leading up to the current housing bubble and inventory overhang - it would imply several years of NEGATIVE returns. Yes, cfr. the “negative budget surplus”. Busts tend to be as severe as the booms that preceded them. Just don’t tell you weren’t warned.

- There is no proof that our economy would be worse off without the tax cuts. Their is proof, however, that our economy would be much worse off if this administration had not actively engulfed our nation in debt. Yes, this economy is built on debt that has to be paid off someday. The problem is it now takes 7 dollars of new debt to create one new dollar of GDP, a record. Once the economy starts slowing down (e.g. because consumers can not take any more equity out of their houses - or even sell them because they can’t make their mortgage payments anymore) tax revenues will drop like a stone. This administration is the only one in history to have - foolishly - lowered taxes while waging wars. To compensate this they have engaged in deficit spending causing huge inflationary pressures: more money printed and loaned out to create less goods increases the amount of money in circulation per amount of goods. THAT’S INFLATION. Our Dollar bills are SHRINKING everyday thanks to this administration’s policies. The next generation/administrations will have to pay the price.

- …

You gotta admit, the momentum seems to have swung back to the Reps the last few weeks,

I don’t admit that. It is true that Bush’s popularity has rebounded a bit since the spring. In terms of Republicans who are actually running gaining momentum, nope, I don’t see that.

First let me remind you and everyone of a very very significant number: ZERO

That is how many attacks since 9/11 that have taken place on US soil.

You’re wrong. Aside from the anthrax, you have apparently forgotten this:

(from Wikipedia) On July 4, 2002, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet shot six Israelis at El Al’s ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX). Two of the victims died. Although the gunman was not linked to any terrorist group, Hadayet, an Egyptian, espoused anti-Israeli views and was opposed to U.S. policy in the Middle East. This led the FBI to classify the shooting as a terrorist act, one of the few on U.S. soil since the September 11, 2001 attacks.

It is ironic that conservatives, who claim to be attuned to every bad thing that happens to the Jewish people, completely forget about this incident.

Josh,

Good points about the spin (I made many of those same points above; inflation and the M3 Money Supply, debt, pressing problems, housing market, etc.).

However, that sort of logic (sound as it is) falls on deaf ears over here in the Rose-colored column, where the “In Party” proponents, with their Rose-colored glasses, are mostly only interested in trying to paint a Rosy picture, Regardless of Reality, hoping the people don’t ever Really see through the spin.

This former Repulican sees through it.

Did anyone notice the same, very few, cherry-picked statistics (quoted above by the humble Mighty Sicilian Eagle) are vastly out-numbered and over-shadowed by a long list of pressing problems, growing in number and severity, because those very few cherry-picked statisitics are all he has to work with.

Have you noticed how they say “it is within historical norms” ?

Sure, the $8.5 trillion National debt is within historical norms, if you include the worst levels since the debt left over from WWII. And, why do they fail to mention the $12.8 trillion of Social Security Debt? Or the $450 billion of PBGC pension debt? Or the hundreds of billions of unfunded liabilities for Medicare and Medicaid? You know where they will get the money? Borrow it, print it, run up more debt, and perpetuate the ever present, insidious, destabilizing inflation.

The Rose-colored spin is truly Ridiculous, and it’s what the “In Party” always does. I have a Really hard time believing that even the humble Might Sicilian Eagle even believes the spin he writes. It appears he does it to merely whip everyone up into a frenzy, and the only ones buyin’ it are the truly, hard-core self-deluded. Not even this former wallow-in-the-partisan-warfare, spin-master Republican is buyin’ it. Not at all. Not even remotely close.

Ryan,

I say we drop the kid gloves and start kicking ass and takiing names later. The statue of Liberty used to say, “give me your sick, your tired, your poor, your hungry…‎ Now she holding a baseball bat and yelling, “YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME?!!‎ Like toby Kieth says, “We’ll put a boot in your ass, it’s the American way!‎

Quick, change the statue of Liberty to say your “Yeah-ah” better motto. I’m sure reading “We’ll put a boot in your ass, it’s the American way!” will make a very impressive impact on the tourists visiting the statue.

PS: Too bad, more and more asses to kick are queued by this administration, while boots are starting to look tired, dirty and over-used.

Henry C,

Look past the bureaucratic BS and think about the real threat IRAQ posed. Saddam’s sons were out of control. They ran their own portion of the government and even Saddam was not entirely aware of what they were doing. Iraq was fueling hatred and extremism. There is no document available to prove that fact.

Then that’s not a fact, just your claim.

It’s obvious to anyone who can think.

Still not a fact, just an opinion anyone who can think can share. Or not. Like me.

What are you talking about that Saddam was not an extremist. He invaded Kuwait, a peaceful neighbor. He was at war with Iran.

If being a nation at war with or invading a foreign nation is enough to be called extremist, then Bush is too.

He funded islamic terrorists. How is this not extreme.

You fund islamic terrorists every time you buy gaz for your car. How is this not extreme!?
Oh, btw, I guess there is again no document to prove that Saddam funded islamic terrorists but it’s obvious to anyone who can think, right? Get it.

He defied the world and glorified his defiance. Terrorists and extremists looked up to him because he defied the world and the US and he lived to tell about it.

Are you still talking about Saddam or do you switch without notice to Bush here? Because without explicit evidence, it’s hard to tell. Except for the “US” reference, maybe…

I know exactly who our enemies are.

Great! Could you pleace ASAP contact the nearest… White House, please?

Moderate muslims
from all over the world contribute to
these causes, knowingly or not. I don’t
think they even care.

Moderate people from all over the world who happened in their way of life to rely heavily on oil to keep it confortable and cheap enough contribute too. And westerners are, in average, healthier than moderate muslims, which means most probably they “contribute” way more in funding international terrorism.

Before 9/11, one could argue it was not knowingly. It’s not anymore. And I’ll bet both you and me are to include in the contributors list, right?

Anyway, nice koolaid flavored post.

Phillipe,

Clinton tried to catch OBL during 8 years. And failed. And recognized it.

Trying means you actually pulled the trigger when you had him in your sites.

Our party may be far from perfect, but we are not nearly the failures that the dems are and will continue to be.

Henry C,

What can