Muslims Stage Worldwide Protests Denouncing . . . History?

Muslims worldwide staged protests and demonstrations in response to Pope Benedict XVI’s speech in which he quoted a 14th-Century Christian emperor about violence and faith. Do Muslims feel threatened by history?

An article by BBC News entitled "In Pictures: Muslim Anger at Pope" contains a photograph (click on picture 2) of a group of young male Indian Muslims burning an effigy of Pope Benedict. The men in the photograph do not seem angry. The young man in the blue striped shirt at left has a big smile on his face and so do the men on his left. They seem to be having a great time. Maybe jumping up and down chanting "Death to the Pope! Death to America!" while burning effigies of Pope Benedict is the way some young men in India "party down." But seriously, what did the Pope say that made so many Muslims angry? And why are so many Muslims so angry all the time?

Here's a portion of what the Pope said (copied from BBC News):

I was reminded of all this recently, when I read... of part of the dialogue carried on - perhaps in 1391 in the winter barracks near Ankara - by the erudite Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian on the subject of Christianity and Islam, and the truth of both.
In the seventh conversation...the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God," he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats ."

As a result of Pope Benedict's little history lesson, Muslims worldwide went berserk (click on picture 7), shooting their Kalashnikov rifles into the air, burning effigies of Pope Benedict, and so on. This reminded me of the way many Muslims reacted when a Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, published cartoons depicting Mohammed. Fritz R., a reader of Michelle Malkin, noted:

The utter hypocrisy is that Muslim countries regularly lampoon Christians and Jews in their comics while demanding the west refrain from any criticism of Islam.

Muslims worldwide felt threatened by a cartoon. They were ultimately exposed as hypocrites by the Hitler of Iran who actually sponsored a Holocaust Cartoon Contest, which drew more than 1,200 submissions from 61 countries (six from the United States). Was there an outcry from the Islamic community denouncing the Holocaust Contest? If so, the media paid little attention.

Now it seems that many Muslims feel threatened by history. There is something very odd about this kind of behavior. It reminds me of a TV documentary about religious cults I watched some years ago. Cultists typically are intolerant of criticism. Part of the programming involves avoidance of such. How are we supposed to engage in meaningful dialogue with people intolerant of criticism?

Posted by Chris Rowan at September 15, 2006 9:16 PM
Comments
Comment #181772

It means Muslims are ashamed of their own history…

Posted by: harry at September 16, 2006 7:28 AM
Comment #181775

Chris

Put me in the “Go Pope!” category.

Benedict has drawn the theological line in the sand and wants to engage into a theological discussion on Islam.

His writings prior to his papcy reflect this view…he was the conservative policy maker to John Paul prior to his papacy, and believe me, those words were measured.

So, hope do I join up with Opus Dei? :)

Posted by: sicilianeagle at September 16, 2006 7:34 AM
Comment #181779

The Pope is right on this one, because Islam is a warrior religion. Islam cannot peacefully co-exist with any other religion. There is not one Islamic country that co-exists peacefully with non-Muslims. Islam is not peaceful. It has never been peaceful. And it will never be peaceful. It is a bloody, violent, evil force, intent on world domination.

This is the nature of Islam. You will note that I do not say “militant Islam”, or “radical Islam”, or “Islamic extremism”. These are politically correct “weasel words”. So here it is…in your face…nothing but the truth…ISLAM IS EVIL…period!

Jihad is without parallel in any other religion. There is a codified, detailed body of laws for the waging of jihad in the name of Allah. Muslims divide the world into two parts: Dar al-Islam (house of Islam) and Dar-al-Harb (house of hostility). According to the teachings of Mohammed, there can be no true peace, until Islam rules the whole world.

Muslims give basically three choices to conquered peoples: convert, die, or live as Dhimmis. Dhimmis are described as “protected” people in the Koran. What this means, however, is that conquered Christians and Jews are allowed to practice their faith as long as they “feel themselves subdued,” (Sura 9:29).

What society sees as “moderate peaceful” Muslims, are those who have managed to ignore the Koran’s call to jihad, and have not yet subscribed to Mohammed’s separation of the world into the camps of “believers” and “infidels.”

Every one of the hijackers who flew airliners into the World Trade Center and Pentagon were professing and practicing Muslims, as is Osama bin Laden. The Al Qaeda terrorist network is based in Muslim countries and supported financially by the so-called pious Muslim leadership of Saudi Arabia. The overwhelming majority of Muslim religious authorities who have spoken out on the subject, including those at the main mosque in Mecca, and Egypt’s prestigious Al Azar University, either endorse or rationalize acts of terrorism. On 9/11/01, when Americans were incinerated or buried under tons of rubble, Muslims from Nigeria to Indonesia celebrated in the streets.

September 11, 2001 was only one chapter in a 1400-year long violent jihad. Every day, the World Trade Center massacre is reenacted on a smaller scale somewhere in the world. Jewish women and children are blown to pieces on a bus in Israel. A missionary is beheaded in the Philippines. Gunmen shoot up a Christian church in Pakistan, deliberately firing into the prostrate bodies of women trying to shield their children. Ancient monasteries and convents are destroyed in Kosovo.

Denmark’s Muslim community has put a $30,000 bounty on the heads of Jews and those who support Israel. Nuns are beheaded in Baghdad; Christians in Sudan are forced into slavery. Muslim clerics in Britain openly state that Islam is going to take over not only the UK, but also the whole world.

And the beat goes on…terrorist attacks in Thailand, genocide in the Sudan, ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, religious persecution in Saudi Arabia, calls for another holocaust in mosques from Mecca to Gaza, the imposition of Islamic law in Nigeria, forced conversions in Indonesia, burned synagogues in France, train bombings in Spain, car-bombs in Turkey. The beheading of civilization continues to accelerate, as the rage of a bloodthirsty “third jihad” grows daily.

The “politically correct” absurdity is that Islam is a religion of peace – a creed of kindness and benevolence, tragically and inexplicably corrupted by fanatics. We would not want to “offend” these dear friends by saying something unflattering about their butcher-bloody, Dark Ages “faith”.

Here are the facts, which can be supported by a brief study of Mohammed’s life and reading the Koran: Islam was founded by a man who had only two loves in his hate-filled existence - war, and having sex with children, some as young as six years old. Mohammed killed thousands of people. The essence of his message to his followers was to wage holy war (jihad) in an endless slaughter of Islam’s enemies. He also encouraged his “holy warriors” to have sex with the children they captured (as he did) for the glory of Allah. He encouraged Muslims to negotiate false peace treaties in order to lull non-Muslims into a false sense of security, then to attack, rape and murder them later.

For almost 1,400 years, that has been the reality of Islam. Within a century after the death of Mohammed, Islam spread throughout the Middle East, and across North Africa. It overran the Iberian Peninsula and was finally stopped in southern France during the Crusades. It also spread eastward as far as the southern Philippines. The false religion of Islam was not propagated by fresh-faced young men knocking on doors, and announcing: “Hello. I’m from your local mosque. Have you considered the Koran?” It was, and is, and will continue to be spread by brutal, barbaric force – conversion by the sword or death – no other options.

The evil committed in Mohammed’s name continues to escalate throughout the world to this day. There are at present at least twenty-two conflicts in developing nations of the world. Of these, twenty involve Muslims versus someone else. Coincidence? Not really. Islam has always had bloody borders.

There is no Methodist Jihad. There are no Jewish holy warriors. There are no Southern Baptist missionaries, lustfully expecting to have 72 virgins waiting in paradise after a suicide bombing. It is Islam, alone, that is the perfect vehicle for so many maniacal fanatics, for the violence-prone, for humanity-haters, and for the bloodthirsty all over the world.

Still, much of the West is addicted to a fairy-tale version of Islam. Christian and Jewish clergy fall all over themselves to have interfaith services with imams. Representatives of Muslim groups are invited to the White House. The President signs a Ramadan declaration. Public schools in California ask children to role-play at being Muslims. Our universities take carefully selected verses from the Koran and present them as the essence of the faith. All that’s still needed is a Muslim character on Sesame Street. “Look – it’s the Jihad Monster, and he has a bomb vest! Children, can you say ‘Hamas’?

For the first thousand years of its history, from the death of Mohammed to the 17th century decline of the Ottoman Empire, Islam was a murderous expansionist force. For the next 300 years, as the West rose to preeminence, Islam receded. For the past four decades – fueled by Arab oil wealth, a surplus population in the Middle East, and the decline of Christian values in the West, Islam has once more began its relentless quest for world control.

Due to Muslim immigration and aggressive proselytizing, Islam is being exported to the West. Muslim populations are burgeoning throughout Western Europe. In southern France, there are more mosques than churches. In “Christian” America, Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is also spreading southward along the coast of West African nations, throughout the Balkans, northward from Mindanao in the Philippines.

Wherever it spreads, Islam brings its delightful customs – child marriage, female circumcision, abuse of women, amputation, public execution, terrorist fanaticism, and a rabid hatred of Christians and Jews.

Am I suggesting we declare war on over 1 billion Muslims? That question is moot. Islam has already declared war on the rest of the human race. When one side knows it’s at war and the other thinks peace and brotherhood prevail, guess who wins?

Ultimately, this is not about Spain, Turkey, Bosnia, Chechnya, Kashmir, the Philippines, Syria, Iran, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, or Israel. It’s not about a single terror attack on September 11th. It’s not even about Afghanistan, the Taliban, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or Iraq.

This is about Islam and you. Wake up, America! Islam is evil! And evil will only be defeated when we as a nation begin to turn back to a genuine faith in the one true living God. We must prepare our hearts with unfailing strength. We must ready our minds with unwavering courage, for this is the greatest battle of our time. We cannot rest, we dare not quit, and we must not surrender, until we have achieved complete victory!

Posted by: cybersword at September 16, 2006 8:06 AM
Comment #181784

I believe that what you say is true. I think it would be good to expose more of the things that the Pope did about this cult of death. It should be done so that the truth can not be refuted.

People make ugly statements about Catholics, and Jews all the time but you don’t see them reacting with the rabid displays we’ve come to expect from muslims. The reason is that we let our religion stand on it’s own. We don’t feel the need to go over the top because we know the truth can be found in the pages of the new and old testament. Evidently the truth that is found in the writings of the Koran are not supposed to be exposed to the masses. Evidently the only people allowed to interpret the Koran are muslims. It enrages these misled people when they have to face up to the fact that what they believe is flawed.

Posted by: Ed at September 16, 2006 8:54 AM
Comment #181785

Ok, so muslims are enraged (burn effigies; protest) when the Pope quotes history; yet, when Bin Laden kills people in the name of Islam, you get no such “enragement”. Where are these so called “moderate” muslims to take the religion back?!

Posted by: rahdigly at September 16, 2006 9:02 AM
Comment #181786

I am soooooo sick of the PC crap about islam its the raghead followers! The Pope is right on target. When will the world WAKE UP to islamic fascism?

Posted by: Shredder at September 16, 2006 9:12 AM
Comment #181787

I’ve only read bits and pieces of the Koran. Therefore I am not qualified to offer an opinion. I’m surprised, though, that so many experts are posting here.

However, I do know quite a bit about Judaic and Christian holy texts, and many of these pages are soaked in blood.

Posted by: Trent at September 16, 2006 9:18 AM
Comment #181795

Muslims are intolerant of any criticism because there is so much they can be criticized for. What science or technology has Islam produced over the last few centuries? Where is their art or philosophy? These people live in third world toilets ruled by a collection of thuggish, hereditary sheiks or by jumped-up corporals tricked out in comic opera colonel’s costumes. And they allow it! (It’s all the fault of Western imperialists, you see.) Without the accident of oil, they’d all still be squatting around camel-dung campfires snacking on sheep’s eyes. There has not been a dime’s worth of progress in the Moslem world for centuries that was not crammed down their throats by the West. Were they not so murderous, they’d be pathetic. The invasions of Afganistan and Iraq are only the beginning of the long process of dragging these benighted souls from the 8th to the 21st century. Political correctness is more than counter-productive in this situation. First, Moslems must be told that thay are most definitely ignorant barbarians. Secondly, they must be made to understand that blowing up our women and children will not be tolerated. Diplomacy is useless here. M-16’s, Abrams tanks, and American combat boots on their necks will be required to get the attention of these frothing-at-the-mouth sociopaths. In the end, either the West will choose between converting to Islam and death or Islam will be relegated to a bloody, ridiculous, and over-long chapter in the halting history of human progress. There is no middle way, no compromise, and no role for the chattering classes here. The time has come to call a Crusade a Crusade.

Posted by: Tom Schofield at September 16, 2006 9:58 AM
Comment #181798

Tom Schofield,

I know you are afraid. Each of your sentences reveals that. But don’t be. There are no Islamic armies marching against the West. There are a few terrorists, to be sure, and we will fight them. It can be difficult for some, I realize, to take a balanced view when afraid, but consider … how are you in danger? Driving your car threatens your life far, far more than any terrorist.

Posted by: Trent at September 16, 2006 10:09 AM
Comment #181799

Trent,

History is soaked in blood, not just the Holy Texts of Christians and Jews. The point being made here is that The Koran encourages the continuation of the blood bath, as evidenced not only in history (as quoted by the Pope) but as reported daily in all news medias (liberal and conservative). Jews and Christians have moved on, grown up, matured in thier faiths - they have left the bloody past behind, learned from it and found that love and peace are preferred lifestyles. Muslims still live in the Dark Ages, they still use force to show us the “love” of Allah. They are guilty of atrocities daily - not just the terrorists, but in how they treat even their own people. I refuse to be PC on this. These people are barbarians and need to be conquered and contained. Unfortunately, our government, and the governments of all non-Muslim countries are blind to the tactics of these people. They WANT US DEAD! Why are people who are reasonably intellegent and educated fail to see that there is no negotiating with them? THEY DON’T CARE WHAT WE BELIEVE. If you are not with them you are against them. Period. I was sorry that the Pope apologized. He should have sent them a copy of the text and let them answer for thier own history. In the end, we’ll have to fight them, I just hope it isn’t house to house on our own soil - because by then it will be way to late.

Posted by: Ilsa at September 16, 2006 10:16 AM
Comment #181801

cybersword
Thank you for such a good post.

Posted by: Ilsa at September 16, 2006 10:23 AM
Comment #181802

A few thousand Muslims overreact…
Then a few million Americans overreact! Oh dear, we have a violent religion on its hands!

Folks, there a billion Muslims on the planet. Many will not hear of it. A great number will hear and just sigh about it. A number will talk and debate about this over dinner, and some will decide to hold peaceful demonstrations and give peaceful comments about it.

There are a number of people here, who when it comes to Muslims, cannot see the good in the religion, cannot see it as anything more but a vector for the infection of religious hatred.

In short, they are pessimists about the character of the very people we have to make friends of. They don’t believe these people can reject violence, choose modernity and humane behavior on their own. In short, they take what from a Muslims point of view is a very arrogant, patronizing point of view.

Unfortunately for you guys and America, that’s the last thing they want. These are people who had to suffer being the “wogs” underneath the colonial rule of one power or another for centuries. If not the Europeans, then the Ottomans, who most Arabs hated and thought of as backsliders. It’s for those reasons, more than religious reasons, that the arab world is so contentious.

Unfortunately, you have these people on both sides who want to basically dredge up and amplify the whole divide, to return to the days of one side trying to conquer or attack the other. There is no room in a modern, peaceful world for this kind of sensibility from either side. The world needs peacemakers, those who look to the possibilities of the future rather than perseverating on the dark deeds and words of the past.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 16, 2006 10:29 AM
Comment #181806

Ilsa,

I’ve only read scattered passages from the Koran, so I am not qualified to have an opinion. You, obviously, have read the Koran and the Hadith in their entirety. Could you point me to what you think are the best translations so that I can learn as much as you?

Posted by: Trent at September 16, 2006 10:45 AM
Comment #181807

Islam has embraced militant armed aggression against the west since its inception. In contrast, the Christian response did not begin until the 11th century. The first Crusade was a defensive response to generations of armed jihad.

Much of the Middle East was once heavily Christian. (Can you imagine how peaceful the world would be if that were still true?) Muslim armies chaned that by imposing Shari’a Law. Surviving Christian cultures have centuries of slaughter, violence and slavery as a constant and re-occurring theme of Mulim domination.

Islamic extremism thrives on a sense of unfair treatment and injustice. But the facts suggests just the opposite.

The Moors dynasty, based out of Damscus, then Baghdad, occupied Spain for 750 years. El Cid organised the first resistance against them. France repelled a similar fate narrowly in 732. The heroic Charles Martel defeated the Moors at Poiters in the Battle of Tours. Greece was conquered by the Ottoman Turks. Russia has historically struggled against the Tatars. Tolstoy noted the muslim chechen problem, which still exists today.

The Ottomans have been busy in Europe since the 14th century. Istanbul seized control of Hungary and Transylvania (see Vlad Tepes aka Dracula and his role in fighting the muslim invaders). The Polish army valiantly defeated them at the Gates of Vienna in 1683. Miguel Cervantes aka Don Quixote witnessed the great sea battles btween the alliance of Italy/Spain against muslims.

The attacks of the Barbary Pirates forced Thomas Jefferson to form the U.S. Marines. They have defended our interests ….”from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli..” since then.

“Millions for defence..not one penny for tribute.” So sayeth Thomas Jefferson.

This battle spans the ages, people. Time to wake up. And re-engage.

Posted by: nikkolai at September 16, 2006 10:51 AM
Comment #181822

Trent … if you need more please let me know.

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”

Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either show generosity or ransom them (based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

Ishaq:578 “Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet’s fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory.”

Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an 59:2 “It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe and imagined that their strongholds would protect them against Allah. But Allah came at them from where they did not suspect, and filled their hearts with terror. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson, O men who have eyes. This is My warning…they shall taste the torment of Fire.”

Posted by: cybersword at September 16, 2006 12:13 PM
Comment #181823

On the wrong side yet again, huh Stephen?! How come a few thousand muslims are enough to take over the entire religion? Better yet, why can’t the “millions” take control from a few thousand?!! It’s disgusting and you’d think that we never had a 9/11 to wake us up a rid the planet of these fascist psychopaths!!!!

Posted by: rahdigly at September 16, 2006 12:16 PM
Comment #181829

allah is a pagan moon god.

Did muhammed commit genocie on the Jews in Medina?

Was Aisha really only 6 when muhammed married her?

Did muhammed really own slaves?

Would God really send a man like this to earth as His messenger?

Posted by: nikkolai at September 16, 2006 12:52 PM
Comment #181830

As a Country the US has been Neutered by the PC drivel. When the ppl of the US wake up and see Muslims for what they are perhaps something will be done, hopefully it won’t be too late. I hear so many talk about peaceful Muslims.. think about lie in wait. Peaceful Musliims convert, converts become extreamists.. like a cancer. I think every Christian should read “The False Prophet, by Ellis H Skolfield”.

Posted by: Sinjinn at September 16, 2006 12:52 PM
Comment #181835

Sinjinn,

Some of us (Americans) are already there; we know the hateful power of Islam, though it’s going to take something more destructive than a 9/11 for the rest of these Multicultural (PC) idiots to (actually) wake up and “smell the Jihad”. Although, some of us might not be around to say I told you so.

Posted by: rahdigly at September 16, 2006 1:59 PM
Comment #181837

Cypersword

You posted the most insightful post here in a long time.

Bravo.

Really, a tour de force…and the Mighty Eagle NEVER passes out platitudes.

There way more to the Pope’s message despite his forthcoming apology.

This was a theologogial salvo (then retracted…simply the best wy to get a message out, I think) that will bring the concept of Jihad into the forefront of moderate Muslim thought.

They need to police their lunitic frindge.

Otherwise, it will be done for them.

Seriously, this message from the pope was unbelievable in its message.

PLUS, most of modern GERMANY…the sleeping giant of the EU…agrees with him.

Prediction: Watch Berlisconi stage a comeback because the conservative right in Italy has been praying for this.

His comment was the most important geo-political and theologicial comment of the year.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at September 16, 2006 2:13 PM
Comment #181841

I hear a lot of you saying that the Pope is right to criticize Islam as a violent religion. You say that it is ridiculous for Muslims to demonstrate and become angry because they were told that they love violence.

You probably say this because you think the Pope can do no wrong. But this time he is very wrong. Disregarding the history of Christianity with its Crusades and Inquisition, the one who worships Jesus, is “throwing the first stone.”

With his criticism of Islam, the Pope has shown his disdain for Muslims all over the world. Regardless of what the Koran says or does not say, I’m sure that the vast majority of Muslims do not believe in killing fellow human beings even if they are “infidels.”

Maybe Muslims should not be so upset, but they are. Just think how American Christians would feel if a Muslim cleric criticized Christianity. Some, no doubt, would be as angry as the Muslims are today.

The Pope’s remarks are terrible for a more important reason. Such thoughtless remarks by the Pope, and other leaders of the West, enrages some Muslims in the world. They feel degraded, disrespected and dehumanized, and turn into terrorists to recoup their self-respect.

If you hate terrorism, don’t encourage Muslims to become terrorists by insulting them.

Posted by: Paul Siegel at September 16, 2006 3:13 PM
Comment #181845

Paul

Maybe you should actually read what the Pope said.

Posted by: Keith at September 16, 2006 3:43 PM
Comment #181848

Paul -
“Such thoughtless remarks by the Pope…”

You don’t get it. The Pope purposely and thoughtfully used this quote. That was his intention. He was drawing a conclusion from history. His point was (in part) that the violence that is part of Islam has been part of Islam for a long time. It is not new. It will not go away.

Posted by: Don at September 16, 2006 3:53 PM
Comment #181849

But accordig to the left, if we are “nice to them, they will not become enraged.” Funny how any rational person could come to that conclusion. Study history much? Check the headlines in the news?

Posted by: nikkolai at September 16, 2006 4:01 PM
Comment #181852

Paul S.
“if a Muslim cleric criticized Christianity”? If? How about when? How about every day? How about the big gathering in Teheran devoted of anti-Christian/Judaic cartoons? Has anyone declared that this event merits the killing of those responsible?

Moderate(?) Muslims don’t speak up for probably 2 reasons. One, they agree with the extremists, and,Two, they are afraid that fatwah will be announced against them and their families. It is much like Germany before and during WW2. Anyone disagreeing with Hitler woould either be killed or shipped off to a concentration camp.

Also, does anyone besides me find it ironic that a so-called “religion of peace” reacts to a recitation of historical fact about their religion by rioting and burning Christian churches. A great way to proclaim the message of “peace and love”.

Make no mistake, the extremist Muslims want to reestablish the old caliphate. That would place a great number of people under shari’s law or dead. The president of Iran has made public statements to this effect. Of course, he would be the first caliph, but there would be others rise up. This call could be the uniting influence for the various groups now engaged in terrorist activities. And that, my friends, is a very frightening thought!

Posted by: John Back at September 16, 2006 4:08 PM
Comment #181855

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
Forward into battle see His banners go!

Posted by: ElliottBay at September 16, 2006 4:12 PM
Comment #181857

ElliotBay -

Do you know anything about that song?

I doubt it.

Posted by: Don at September 16, 2006 4:15 PM
Comment #181859

ElliottBoy -

Name one Christian crusade or war from the last 200 years.

Posted by: Don at September 16, 2006 4:20 PM
Comment #181864

Eliottbay -

Here’s what you can use to reduce your ignorance:

“Baring-Gould wrote about this hymn:

Whit-Mon­day is a great day for school fes­tiv­als in York­shire. One Whit-Mon­day, thir­ty years ago, it was ar­ranged that our school should join forc­es with that of a neigh­bor­ing vil­lage. I want­ed the child­ren to sing when march­ing from one vil­lage to another, but couldn’t think of any­thing quite suit­a­ble; so I sat up at night, re­solved that I would write some­thing myself. “Onward, Christ­ian Sol­diers” was the re­sult. It was writ­ten in great haste, and I am afraid some of the rhymes are faulty. Cer­tain­ly no­thing has sur­prised me more than its pop­u­lar­i­ty. I don’t re­mem­ber how it got print­ed first, but I know that very soon it found its way into sev­er­al col­lect­ions. I have writ­ten a few other hymns since then, but only two or three have be­come at all well-known.”

It was written not as a war song, but as a marching song for school children.

Posted by: Don at September 16, 2006 4:26 PM
Comment #181866

We can choose war or dishonor. If we choose dishonor, we will most certainly get both. The jihadists have told us this for hundreds of years. Some in the west will join the jihadists. Others will be appeasers, hoping to be spared. Millions more will never submit. A day of reckoning is coming.

Posted by: nikkolai at September 16, 2006 4:36 PM
Comment #181872

My Name Is Roger:

CYBERSWORD: Thank you for such a {realy realy} good post.

STEPHEN: I always look for your coments, even though you look ate them from a different point of view, but that is what America is all about.

Stephen I have a few question… What good is there in a religion that teaches………………

1. It is okay to have sex with the six year old children they have captured?

2. It is okay to rape and murder women that they have captured?

3. That suicide bomers with have 72 virgins in paradise.

4. That you as a woman, may have to spend eternity, as one of 72 virgins… for the lusful desires of some crazy suicide bomer.

Stephen, I would not be a follower of Jesus Christ, if He had taught us to do such things.

Now… I know that a lot of evil things have been done in the name of Jesus, but… they were never based upon the teaching of Jesus, and I doubt if the people who did these things were realy truely Christians.

Roger A conservative Christian Ruoublican

Posted by: ROGER at September 16, 2006 5:08 PM
Comment #181880

Thank you all conservative republican posters, please let the world see your ignorance for what it is. You call yourselves Christians?? By what right? I guess this is how jesus would act. Please ,please do go on to say more let everybody know just how you feel. Its about time you let people see your true selves. Again I thank you speak loud and speak proud!!!

Posted by: 037 at September 16, 2006 6:39 PM
Comment #181881

037-

Your post makes no sense. Explain please. I haven’t seen anyone claiming to be a Christian on this particular post. Also, expand your message to give your ideas about how Jesus would act.

Posted by: John Back at September 16, 2006 6:47 PM
Comment #181892

Stephen Daugherty -

Bless your heart. You are such an optimist. You probably see the glass as half full and always give others the benefit of the doubt. You are a good, decent person who thinks that the man who strikes the first blow is the first to run out of ideas. You are the kind of Democrat Woodrow Wilson would recognize and respect.

I hope you’re right. I really do. Maybe what we’re witnessing right now is an aberration, some weird religious anomaly that will be rendered impotent without resorting to another world war. If, however, the virus of jihad spreads to the general Muslim population, we may have no choice.

For now, I’d rather err on the side of caution. I don’t want to see a billion Muslims killed. That’s the way the next war would turn out, you know.

You said -

The world needs peacemakers

Actually, we already have enough Peacemakers. The name was changed to Peacekeeper because someone thought “peacemaker” sounded too close to “pacemaker.” I totally agree that a few Peacekeepers would do the trick.

Posted by: Chris at September 16, 2006 8:27 PM
Comment #181893

“This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor. Exodus 25:23-29

Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation. Exodus 34:7

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Numbers 31:17-18

Then the spirit of the Lord came upon Jepthah. He crossed Gilead and Manassah, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.
When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tamborines.
After the two months she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin. Judges 11:29-31

John Beck figure it out for yourself!

Posted by: 037 at September 16, 2006 8:45 PM
Comment #181900

037
You must be Muslim. Exodus 25:23-29 doesn’t say what you wrote. In my King James it talks about making a table not about killing anyone.

Posted by: KAP at September 16, 2006 9:06 PM
Comment #181902

Dear September,

You are quoting things out of the Old Testament (hence the word “old”), which is basically the Torah. Our Christian “Bible” is made up of our historical past through the Israelites’ trials and triumphs (bloody and war like as it was), BUT our is eventual triumph, SALVATION and future is through Jesus, for whom the Last Testament was written about. In the Last Testament, the “sword” gives way to a “sword of beliefs and the heart”.

Amen brother.

Posted by: Centaur at September 16, 2006 9:09 PM
Comment #181904

“History is soaked in blood, not just the Holy Texts of Christians and Jews.”

First the Torah I know has some incidents of violence in it, but I’m not so sure about some of its historical roots…(HA) This is to those who say Jewish history and texts did not ocure out of one side and says Jews were murders in their turn at history - When was this turn? Israelis? Biblical? O I get it under the protocals. I don’t recall a bloody history in Christianity until The Great Constintine (300’s).
Islam is through and through a history that says “Death or conversion (Ask the FOX guys)” - any one who relies upon the word of a trator deserves death - since all translators are traitors… This is the problem with understanding Judaism and Christianity. The problem with Islam is to believe the words of Ali or not, or some mullah who never studied in depth or in the original - all arabs are not muslim and all muslims don’t have arabic as their mother language.
k

Posted by: kuzriel at September 16, 2006 9:13 PM
Comment #181905

037
Where did you get those quotes

Heres: Exodus 25: 23-29
23 You shall make a table of acacia wood, two cubits long, one cubit wide, and a cubit and a half high. 24You shall overlay it with pure gold, and make a moulding of gold round it. 25You shall make round it a rim a handbreadth wide, and a moulding of gold round the rim. 26You shall make for it four rings of gold, and fasten the rings to the four corners at its four legs. 27The rings that hold the poles used for carrying the table shall be close to the rim. 28You shall make the poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold, and the table shall be carried with these. 29You shall make its plates and dishes for incense, and its flagons and bowls with which to pour drink-offerings; you shall make them of pure gold.

Exodus 34:7 Moses is making a covenant witrh God.

7keeping steadfast love for the thousandth generation,*
forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin,
yet by no means clearing the guilty,
but visiting the iniquity of the parents
upon the children
and the children’s children,
to the third and the fourth generation.’
8And Moses quickly bowed his head towards the earth, and worshipped. 9He said, ‘If now I have found favour in your sight, O Lord, I pray, let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your inheritance.’

The numbers quote is completely out of context. That is not God talking but Moses talking to his men. They are in the middle of a war with the Middianites after they wer ambushed by them.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the congregation went to meet them outside the camp. 14Moses became angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15Moses said to them, ‘Have you allowed all the women to live? 16These women here, on Balaam’s advice, made the Israelites act treacherously against the Lord in the affair of Peor, so that the plague came among the congregation of the Lord. 17Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. 18But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. 19Camp outside the camp for seven days; whoever of you has killed any person or touched a corpse, purify yourselves and your captives on the third and on the seventh day. 20You shall purify every garment, every article of skin, everything made of goats’ hair, and every article of wood.’

Again your Judges quote is completely out of context.

29 Then the spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed through Gilead and Manasseh. He passed on to Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he passed on to the Ammonites. 30And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, 31then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ 32So Jephthah crossed over to the Ammonites to fight against them; and the Lord gave them into his hand. 33He inflicted a massive defeat on them from Aroer to the neighbourhood of Minnith, twenty towns, and as far as Abel-keramim. So the Ammonites were subdued before the people of Israel.
34 Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. 35When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’ 36She said to him, ‘My father, if you have opened your mouth to the Lord, do to me according to what has gone out of your mouth, now that the Lord has given you vengeance against your enemies, the Ammonites.’ 37And she said to her father, ‘Let this thing be done for me: Grant me two months, so that I may go and wander* on the mountains, and bewail my virginity, my companions and I.’ 38‘Go,’ he said and sent her away for two months. So she departed, she and her companions, and bewailed her virginity on the mountains. 39At the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to the vow he had made. She had never slept with a man. So there arose an Israelite custom that 40for four days every year the daughters of Israel would go out to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

Posted by: Keith at September 16, 2006 9:20 PM
Comment #181906

Centaur,
Boy where did your idea come from.
The whole structure of the Torah is to place yourself into the pre-revelation state - to recieve G-d’s presence. The fact is the very translation used in KJ and others for sin is wrong. cHet is posessing all the knowledge and skill and yet some how failing to make it happen - there is no psychological or physical condemnation involved. You stumble, you fall and you rise again - better than before.
What you preach is replacement theology. What the Torah teaches is that if you follow a meer set of 7 rules you are just as good as anyone else and will be rewarded by Heaven (G-d).
By the way the Greek word Numos (law) is not equated with Torah in hebrew - it is hok.
k

Posted by: kuzriel at September 16, 2006 9:24 PM
Comment #181907

KAP
No, I’m a Roman Catholic. I found the quotes by googling “controvesial bible quotes” The point remains. By the way, The King James and most versions have been edited over time. Guess what, many of the originals “Bibles” contain many of the same books as the Koran.

Posted by: 037 at September 16, 2006 9:25 PM
Comment #181908

037-

Firswt of all, the name is BACK, not Beck. Second of all, if you are going to quote the Old Testament to prove your case about Jesus, you are a few hundred years too early. Third, if you are going to quote the Bible, at least be accurate in your quotations. Your message has been refuted in the above post.

Nice try, no cigar.

Posted by: John Back at September 16, 2006 9:30 PM
Comment #181909

“many of the originals “Bibles” contain many of the same books as the Koran.”

o37, o37, What tree where you found under? you are quite uninformed. While some of the stories in the koran exist with a different twist, there are no chapter of Cows and Ants, ect. in the Tanak let alone the NT. The Catholic Bible of today comes from the Latin. The Protestant Bible comes from Greek and Latin and was revised by the men of Switzerland and Germany, which was presented later as the KJ.
Please don’t refer to what you don’t know. Worse yet quoting an unreliable source from the inter-net.
k

Posted by: kuzriel at September 16, 2006 9:37 PM
Comment #181910

037
Next time try A RELIABLE SOURCE. Controversial bible quotes, ridiculous.

Posted by: KAP at September 16, 2006 9:43 PM
Comment #181912

Yes the bible has been edited over time. With newer finds through archeology and technology the bible is probably historically more accurate now than it was 400 years ago when King James gave us his version.

Posted by: KAP at September 16, 2006 9:50 PM
Comment #181913

-037

If you could give correct contextual information or valid interpretations for even one of these old testament verses I would be utterly shocked (because if you could you would realize the absurdity in qouting them out of context)

Posted by: James E at September 16, 2006 10:01 PM
Comment #181914

Not this old canard again “the bible has been edited”

With the 5000 extant manuscripts we have today, one could destroy all the bibles in the world and still come up with a bible that would be virtually identical to the KJV we have today. So much for the “it has been edited and is thus not reliable” canard.

Posted by: james at September 16, 2006 10:06 PM
Comment #181919

Beck
It is first of all, not firwst of all…see how easy it is to make a typo?

kuzriel
Your right I should have said stories

James E
said “because if you could you would realize the absurdity in qouting them out of context”
Thank you for stating my point so clearly.
And I never said it wasn’t reliable

You’re all right, I am confident that in the bible, when taken out of context, it is easy to find passages that are not at all flattering. I picked the first sight I found and ran with it.

But I don’t believe that religion of Islam is the problem we face, any more than I think the KKK or Army of God represent Christian.

Posted by: 037 at September 16, 2006 10:41 PM
Comment #181920

oops sorry back I meant site not sight

Posted by: 037 at September 16, 2006 10:42 PM
Comment #181924

037

That’s your story and you’re sticking to it.

That’s about as lame an excuse for screwing up that I have ever heard.

Nobody has accused the Pope of taking anything from the Koran out of context. What they are complaining about is that he criticized it at all.

Posted by: Keith at September 16, 2006 10:46 PM
Comment #181925

037
It’s not the religion. It’s the individual interpretations of the teachings of a certain religion that can be blown way out of proportion. There are fanatic Christians as well as fanatic Muslims.

Posted by: KAP at September 16, 2006 10:51 PM
Comment #181926

The thing is that the KKK and the Army of God do not run countries. Neither do they kill people by the dozens, hundreds or thousands every single day of the year. Niether are there millions of people who sympathize with and support them.

Yes, there are fanatical Christians out there who would commit violence for their beliefs. A tiny, tiny minority. Probably a smaller number of people than become violent watching soccer games.

No one could say that if you follow the model of Christ, you would kill people. But if you follow the model of Mohammed?

Posted by: Pilsner at September 16, 2006 11:10 PM
Comment #181927

I denounce Islam, think Moohamed was a pedophile, believe most Muslims are absolute hypocrites, and think Israelis are the chosen ones.

Any Muzlem Want to burn me in effigy now?

Posted by: Philip at September 16, 2006 11:13 PM
Comment #181928

Keith
sort of like your doing??

Posted by: 037 at September 16, 2006 11:15 PM
Comment #181930

Wow, it’s been about 5 minutes since my last post. The world hasn’t exploded, there aren’t any sirens or screams for mercy. I guess my words just fell by the wayside. EXACTLY what the Pope’s will do. My little, misled, inbred Muslim friends, why don’t you all find ways to contribute something positive to the world instead of whining and griping and holding your hands out like we all owe you something. You are owed NOTHING but the right to exercise your religion as you see fit as long as such doesn’t interfere with the rights of others to do the same. Try asking how many of your Muslim cousins want to move from a democratic society to one that will cost them their lives if they even THINK anything against the Koran. I would be willing to wager you wouldn’t have too many volunteers. Now, why do you suppose that would be?

Posted by: Philip at September 16, 2006 11:22 PM
Comment #181939

Headline: Arab op-ed: Pope’s remarks may lead to war

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad and typical of the Islamic mind-set. “We’re peaceful, don’t you see. And if you deny it, we’ll kill you.”

Posted by: Pilsner at September 17, 2006 12:12 AM
Comment #181957

037
“sort of like your doing??”

What was that? I know you are but what am I.

I mean come on is that as good as you can do.

And if your quoting the Old Testament. Here’s one of my favorites.

Deut. 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live

Posted by: Keith at September 17, 2006 2:34 AM
Comment #181968

What has the Old Testament got to do with any of this? Are there any fundamentalist, Bible-thumping Christians out there blowing up babies and slicing the throats of non-believers? It is the moral relativism revealed in some of the posts above that allows this situation to drag on and on. Had we turned our Jarheads loose, instead of ignominiously withdrawing, after the Marine barracks was blown up by the sociopaths Hezbollah would today be as defunct as the defenders of Mt. Suribachi! Had our press not equated Abu Graib(?) with the Bataan Death March, perhaps Iraq would be peaceful now.

Posted by: Tom Schofield at September 17, 2006 6:21 AM
Comment #181972

Here are some facts, hypotheses, and predictions. You decide which? Quiz and answer at the bottom.

1. Stephen Daugherty, your are so wrong. Read the Koran, in the following order: Chapter 111, 33 and then 2, the big Cow. Then read chapter 65 if you still don’t get it. Get back to us soon. You know how to Google!

2. Cybersworld: wonderful contribution. Please contact me.

3. Bible is a history book.

4. Jesus was a Buddhist. The Sermon on the Mount is straight from Buddha’s teachings more than three hundred years before. Most of Jesus’s parables were from Buddha’s personal anecdotes recorded in the Pali language of that time, as he went about spreading his message of hope and salvation in India. This will be accepted widely by 2009. The phrase “Jesus India” generates nearly 25 million hits on Google.

5. Mohammed was a lusty, self-proclaimed, and a very proud profiteering “prophet” who performed no third party witnessed miracles to be ever considered a real prophet.

6. Islam is a cancer. The problem is not Muslims; the problem is Islam. Islam has to die, but so do all the other religions just to make it palatable to the Muslims. Besides the role of religion as a moral force necessary for an orderly society has long been overtaken by the well accepted body of criminal laws in the last 500 years in the West.

7. In 2010, Chicago’s Parliament of Religions which first met in 1893, will meet again to decide to declare all religions bunk. All religions will be relegated to history and God will be recognized as a personal guide inside each living being. Faith will be a private matter between one’s soul as reflected in the mirror of God. This will happen by 2012.

8. Be patient and do not lose your cool. However, if GWB tells you again that Islam is a religion of piece, throw up on your telly and send the cleaning bill to the White House.

9. God Bless America and India. God has already blessed America, the timidity of our State Department not withstanding. It is India’s turn now.

10. Never mind the above. God personally came to me and told me there is no God, other than the one private guide inside me if my soul needs one.

And now the quiz. How many of the above are facts?

Answer: All ten of them.

Posted by: Krishan Kumra at September 17, 2006 6:51 AM
Comment #181973

I am appalled by the level of animosity exhibited by the posters on this site toward a large segment of the world’s population. This attitude is very reminiscent of the anti-semitic vitriole that lead to attempted genocide against the Jews in WWII. To label all Muslims as evil is not only dim witted and arrogant, it dehumanizes and demonizes followers of the Islamic faith in an attempt to justify violence against them. In return, it validates the Islamic perception of Western persecution of their religion. A sweeping condemnation of Islam is counter productive and every bit as repugnant as the hatred spewed by the radical Islamic groups.

All 3 of the world’s desert religions can find in their history a tradition of violence against non believers. One merely need read the Old and New testaments and the Koran to find documentation of countless acts of senseless violence. But to move forward today toward a peaceful coexistance, it must be clearly understood that perpetration of violence by any group against another is unacceptable. Jews, Christians and Muslims should all aknowledge the violence in their heritage and renounce that part of their religion.

I was born into a Methodist family in Appalachia. In this poor part of the country, interaction with those of non Christian faith is rare. If you have not been saved by the fundamentalists then you are doomed for eternity. Outsiders are viewed with suspicion. Education is a low priority. In this narrowly defined world, it is us vs them. Even as a Christian, as one who was not born again, I was considered outside the group and the target of their scorn. I am reminded of this each year when I return to visit my family who still live in this part of the country.

When I left home, I met people of many backgrounds and faiths. I liked some and disliked others but my likes and dislikes were based on the individual’s traits not on their origins or religions. During this time I met and married an Iranian Muslim. We have been married for 22 years, far longer than the average American marriage lasts. I do not worry that I will be beheaded as I sleep. I do not worry that my food will be poisoned. I do not worry that my son will strap a bomb to himself and walk into the school cafeteria. I am not subjected to constant attempts to convert to Islam. We do not lack family values because we are not both Christians. We have rationale discussions about world events and can see both sides of an issue. There is an understanding of the other’s faith and acceptance of it. Education and knowlege are the keys to reversing the tide on the current Jewish/Christian/Muslim conflict.

For those who have posted that the followers of Islam can boast no accomplishments in the arts or sciences. I would suggest looking to some of the institutions of higher learning in this country. You will find any number of Muslims in prominent positions in all professions. All Muslims are not uneducated fanatics looking for handouts or virgins as a reward for suicide bombings. The goal for most is simply to raise their family in a safe and sane world.

We will never have peace in the world so long as people close their minds to other cultures and vilify those whom they do not know. Ignorance is the foundation of insecurity and hatred. If we can only see others in the world as lesser beings, then we doom ourselves to constant threats of terror because those whom we relegate to subhuman status will respond in kind. Violence only sows the seeds of more violence.

Posted by: R51E at September 17, 2006 6:53 AM
Comment #181977

This isn’t about PC or glasses half full.

The Pope had to know his words would be inflammatory even before he uttered them.

Nobody is that ignorant or uninformed.

His words could only have been meant to incite the violence and protests that ensued.

Posted by: Rocky at September 17, 2006 7:44 AM
Comment #181978

Rocky,

Or to prove a point?

Posted by: Ilsa at September 17, 2006 8:28 AM
Comment #181979

I am not religious in any way and I certainly don’t excuse what Christians have done in the past, but you would have to be a fool not to see what Islam is today. I am so tired of hearing that Islam is a religion of peace that has been hijacked by extremists. The moderates are culpable here. When we look at American history, we don’t let Southerners off the hook for standing by and accepting segregation. I don’t here many people making excuses for the vast majority of people who lived in the South during segregation who were not racist and never did anything violent against a person of color.

Also, haven’t we seen in poll after poll, that the Muslim world respects Osama Bin Ladin and hates George W. Bush. I can understand why Muslims would want to be critical of Bush but come on. What about the large number of people in the Muslim world who believe that 911 was carried out by Jews. This is the reality. It is not hatred toward Muslims or Islam itself it is what it is.

The world needs to united, and that should include the so-called moderate Muslims, to eradicate this extremist scourge. I think the first step is ridicule. When radicals react to something so benign as a quote from a leader who is no more than an old guy in fancy robes who makes Catholics feel special, we need to call it what it is - a joke! When a few cartoonists publish pictures of Mohamed, and the radicals go wild and kill people, they are a joke! When Iran reacts to the cartoons by having a contest for Holocaust cartoons and the world reacts with, so what, it shows that they are a joke!

Think of this, Madonna can tour the world, blatantly disrespecting the Catholic Church, how long would she last if we substituted Islam???? I think we all know the answer to that. Sure, come Christians have condemned her and at least a few have made death threats, but I don’t see people demonstrating in the streets burning effigies and chanting “Death to Madonna”

Wake up world and call these fools what they are — A HUGE JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: politico at September 17, 2006 8:29 AM
Comment #181980

R51E,

When Christians are beheaded, their women raped, their children enslaved and forced to convert, will you still feel the same? Oh, wait, that’s already happened - for nearly 1400 years. History is written for a reason - so we can learn from it. History is full of people who said nothing when atrocities were committed or who said they were just following orders. Silence is agreement, “just following orders” a cop out, any movement that promotes violence is wrong. Period. Now, defense against violence, that’s a whole other matter. If someone threatens my family, my way of life, I have the right and the responsibility to defend myself. Period.

Posted by: Ilsa at September 17, 2006 8:35 AM
Comment #181981

I am pretty tolerent of other cultures and religions. Always have been. However, I am now feeling that Muslims need to be put on alert by the rest of the world.

No other culture or religion needs to be threatened by these extremist. The Muslim world needs to take care of this problem soon, or they will find themselves extinct.

Let’s face it, they are the least tolerent, least peaceful and least educated culture in the world today.

Their attitude is that the rest of the world owes them, yet they are too lazy to pick themselves up and move ahead with work and conviction.

Muslims today would rather try and freighten the world into giving in to all their demands. Much like the “good vs evil” super hero movies we have all watched. Good will always win out.

Let us not be tolerant with these extremist. Let us all who love freedom band together to KILL these muslims.

Posted by: Everett at September 17, 2006 8:36 AM
Comment #181987

Everett,

“Let us all who love freedom band together to KILL these muslims.”

You bet. Let’s eliminate them all.
That way we can remake the world in our own image.
I’m sure the rest of the world will stand still for that.

We are the good guys, after all.


Ilsa,

“If someone threatens my family, my way of life, I have the right and the responsibility to defend myself. Period.”

Please explain to all of us the difference between offence and defence.
History is rife with conquest, the big guy conquering the little guy, and America has done it’s fair share of it.
Ideology, natural resources, etc, there are always plenty of excuses to put down the less advantaged among us.
Always in America’s best interests, of course.

The right is ready, and willing to quote history, except when it makes us look bad.

Posted by: Rocky at September 17, 2006 9:16 AM
Comment #181988

Thanks R51E your post answered your own questions.
“We will never have peace in the world so long as people close their minds to other cultures and vilify those whom they do not know. Ignorance is the foundation of insecurity and hatred. If we can only see others in the world as lesser beings, then we doom ourselves to constant threats of terror because those whom we relegate to subhuman status will respond in kind. Violence only sows the seeds of more violence.” Think about it!

Posted by: DrKing at September 17, 2006 9:17 AM
Comment #181994

R51E -

Another optimist. Your post compressed, with my 2 cents’:

“Not all Muslims are evil.”

Not all nazis were evil. But we didn’t waste time trying to determine which nazi was “good” and which was “bad.” We killed and killed and killed until they surrendered unconditionally and openly renounced nazism. Am I advocating the same for all Muslims? No. I just want them to surrender unconditionally to 21st century norms of conduct and openly renounce jihad.

“All religions have a violent past.”

All religions but one have renounced the use of violence as a conversion method.

“Some Christian sects are as backward as some Muslims”

Cultural relativism has always been a weak arguement. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t buy into the “we’re as bad as they are so we can’t judge them” school of thought.

“If you want to stop interfaith violence (i.e., Muslims killing Jews, Christians, Hindus, and all other infidels), marry a Muslim.”

This relates to the “not all nazis were evil” point above. “I married a Muslim who is nonviolent. Therefore, all Muslims are nonviolent.” What kind of logic is that?

“Some Muslims are pretty smart and have made significant contributions to mankind.”

The nazis made plenty of contributions to mankind - jet aircraft, rocketry, the VW “Thing,” to name a few. Some continue to debate the ethics of using data from nazi medical experiments. It doesn’t make nazis any less evil.

“Islam is not the problem; WE are the problem. We need to be more (tolerant, wise, peaceful, accepting, etc.)”

We did not deserve 9/11. We did not deserve any of the attacks by rabid Muslims over the years. We are not the problem.

Posted by: Chris at September 17, 2006 9:34 AM
Comment #181996

kuzriel

“Please don’t refer to what you don’t know. Worse yet quoting an unreliable source from the inter-net”

The qoute are acurate only the reference # are wrong

Posted by: 037 at September 17, 2006 9:40 AM
Comment #181999

Now that is what im talking about. They are nearly as radical as the DNC. I’ve seen Rosie O’Donnell say the same things about gun owners.

Radical can be stopped but it is a force meet with an greater force with no holds barred.


When they behead an American bury one of them with a pig skin coat. Send the movie to aljazeer tv see what happens then.

Posted by: lm at September 17, 2006 9:48 AM
Comment #182000

Rocky -

You are just one more in the “Blame America first” crowd of cultural relativists.

You are WRONG.

We did not deserve 9/11 and all jihadist attacks leading up to it. We are who we are, the world hates us for it, and I don’t care. I’m very lucky and quite proud to be an American. It sucks to be anything else.

Posted by: Chris at September 17, 2006 9:50 AM
Comment #182002

Chris,

“You are just one more in the “Blame America first” crowd of cultural relativists.

You are WRONG.”

Just where did I place blame on anyone?

Facts are facts. You either recognize them for what they are, in this case historical fact, or you ignore them and stick your head in the sand.

America has done wonderful things.
America has also done some pretty dubious things.

Should I place you in the “blame everybody else first” crowd?

Posted by: Rocky at September 17, 2006 10:05 AM
Comment #182003

Jihadist: Death to America! Death to Israel!

Leftist: He doesn’t really mean that. And, besides—we deserve it.

Conservative: I think he DOES mean what he says.

Jihadist: Our children must be martyrs!

Leftist: They love their children—just like us.

Conservative: He just strapped a bomb to that 7 year old kid!

Jihadist: Behead those who refuse to submit to islam!

Leftist: What the hell—I’m an atheist anyway.

Conservative: I’m going to the sporting goods store and buying all the ammo they have.

Posted by: nikkolai at September 17, 2006 10:07 AM
Comment #182012

Rocky -

You said:

Should I place you in the “blame everybody else first” crowd?

Not “everybody else,” no. Just the Muslims. They are the ones responsible, either directly by violent action of indirectly by compliant inaction.

I’m with you, Rocky. Really. I want to believe that what we’re witnessing right now is just an aberration, something on the order of the Jim Jones tragedy.

But I’m not naive enough to believe that the solution is for Americans to be more _____ or less _____ . The solution is for Muslims to accept responsibilty for bringing jihad into the world and forever denouce its use.

Or we can go to war with a billion Mulsims. Either way, jihad will go the way of the Catholic’s auto de fe, and good riddance.

Posted by: Chris at September 17, 2006 10:41 AM
Comment #182014

Correction - I typed “Mulsims” and meant “Muslims.”

I wouldn’t want to offend any practicing Mulsims out there.

Posted by: Chris at September 17, 2006 10:45 AM
Comment #182016

What a hateful post. I have met many Muslims all around the world and, with the exception of one, they have been some of the most open and gracious people I have encountered.

Hate is evil. Period.

Posted by: beijing rob at September 17, 2006 10:49 AM
Comment #182024

In the 1960’s whites and blacks alike held demonstrations against apartheid in America. Apartheid in America being an institution, were they denouncing History? Damn right they were, and changing it for the present.

Bush opened up this can of worms with his unwarranted and ill-conceived invasion of Iraq and using words like Crusade, and IslamoFascists, torturing prisoners, rewriting the Geneva Conventions just for Muslim prisoners. Bush’s administration appears to have as its goal, creating WWIII in which Islamists are on the defensive and the U.S. appears to be the aggressor and instigator.

Quite a turnaround from our invading Afghanistan with nearly worldwide unanimous diplomatic support and backing. Way to go Bush. What’s next on your Republican’t agenda besides bankrupting our nation and WWIII holy wars?

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 17, 2006 11:58 AM
Comment #182029

David,

Such Hate.

Isn’t is time to put aside the BDS and stop acting like none of this was happening before 2000.

If trying to clarify what this means:

“outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment”

Is an evil plot against humanity, then we might as well just throw in the towel now.

I would be concerned about interrogating someone if my actions would be interpreted in such a subjective manner.

Posted by: Keith at September 17, 2006 12:41 PM
Comment #182037

Yeah, these Muslims are crazy, look at what this Imam said:

Show me just what Jesus brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman…

Oops, sorry, that was the Pope talking about Muhammad. It’s so hard to keep these religious zealots straight.

Ok, he was quoting someone else. But he should have immediately clarified that he did not believe it to be true. As the world’s most well-known religious leader, he needs to be much more circumspect about what he says. Even in domestic politics people get in trouble for words taken out of context. The Pope should know this.

Whether Islam is inherently violent is really beside the point. It’s about respect. If someone you respect is overweight, you don’t say, “Man, you are fat!” Even you could prove objectively that the person is obese, it doesn’t make it any less of an insult. The underlying message is, “I care so little about your feelings I am going to say something that I know will hurt you.”

We’ve all gotta get along folks!


Posted by: Woody Mena at September 17, 2006 1:03 PM
Comment #182043

If this is a world war of Muslim against Christendom, then show me the armies marching on Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Show me those, who in fulfillment of all the threats, have actually run Israel into the sea. An incredibly tiny minority attacks, a somewhat larger minority supports, a majority sit at home, raising their children and a few points in debate. There is no war between us and the Muslims. We can make one if we are so foolish and hate peace so much, but for the time being, the Muslims of the world do not fight us and we do not fight them.

The understanding of history offered by the warmongers seems to consist of applying the label of religious extremism to the kind of warmaking that was typical of the times. It’s a sort of reverse political correctness, a revisionist application of standards to the Muslims that our ancestors in Europe certainly did not apply to themselves. Truth was, most people of the time would register as religious zealots.

Another truth of the time was the unreliability of of accounts. Ishaq, for example, wrote his account of Muhammad’s actions more than a century and a half after the Prophets death. Additionally, Hadith are always to be regarded with some degree of skepticism, at least in comparison to the Quran. The Quran explicitly prohibits many of the terrorist’s actions. Besides a good historical overview will find Bin Laden’s actions to be from a decidedly modern mold of Islamist behavior.

What I’m seeing here is hatred and prejudice. What I’m seeing here are people using the deeds of the few to judge the many. Yet these peoplea are often the first to complain when somebody generalizes about them.

I have no illusions. I do not make categorical claims that all Muslims are peaceful. I do not reject the notion that Bin Laden and others take religious authorities and use them to justify what they do. I do not reject the fact that they and those who share their methods and beliefs pose a threat to us, in what they have done and what they plan to do. I do not reject stopping them.

But their beliefs? As long as they don’t break my leg or pick my pocket, I simply do not care. Most Muslims obviously live peaceful lives. Arab society could not hold together otherwise. I do not feel the panicked impulse to declare war on Islam, to pronounce those who may or may not hold disagreeable views from my perspective as enemies. I do not fear them.

If the Arab world bands together and goes on a war of conquest, then we defend. If a fundamentalist government makes war on a peaceful country, then we interceded. If we are attacked by terrorists, we hunt them down and we remove the threat. But the best we can do to prevent new enemies from developing and seeking to harm us, is to first make no enemies we don’t have to, and even make a few friends if we can.

We cannot control the world, and destroy all threats before they come to fruition. We’re only human, we can only see so far and so well into the future, and we may end up creating more enemies by attacking people who have not yet decided to truly become our adversaries.

The world has more than enough pain and suffering in it. We do not need to seek to inflict or invite more of it on ourselves by engaging in unnecessary, voluntary wars of choice, aimed at trying to force on people things can only be willingly taken up.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 17, 2006 1:46 PM
Comment #182045

Nothing to see here. Move along, move along. Never mind the nice jihadist behind the curtain….

They are just like Christians, right?

Ah, yes—it’s all going along just as planned.

Sincerely,

Satan

P.S. I do anticipate receiving quite the ass-whipping, though.

Posted by: nikkolai at September 17, 2006 1:57 PM
Comment #182047

I agree with Stephen.

Despite the ravings of some on the far right, the action we are involved in at the present is small potatoes.
This isn’t an all encompassing world wide conflict as some would have us believe. We fight small gangs of fanatic thugs, not great well equipped armies, yet the hateful deceit of those on the right points toward an inevitable Armageddon if we do not act now to eliminate greater and greater numbers of those that peacefully follow Islam.

Apologies asside, I fear the Pope knew full well that what he was saying would incite, rather than cause introspection, and that plays directly into the cause of the thugs we fight.

Posted by: Rocky at September 17, 2006 2:14 PM
Comment #182051

Stephen,


You forget that they have infinite patience. They don’t need to attack Europe. They are going to slowly overwhelm by immigration and conversion. The secularists in europe are not having children in numbers that will secure the survival of their culture, whereas the Muslim immigrants are having large families.

The only thing that is preventing them from a global war is tehmselves. Fortunately for us every 2 bit Sheikh and Emir is not willing to make an alliance with the others like NATO. If they ever put aside their tribal differences and go together it would be a different picture.

Woody

This isn’t really about whether the Pope insulted Islam, it’s about people who are insecure in their religion so much that any slight is perceived as a major insult. If your religion can’t stand on it’s own merit then you should look elsewhere.

When the Christ in urine artwork was put on display, there was plenty of coplaints that it was tasteless, but I don’t remember any museums bombed or any contracts put out on the “artist”

Posted by: Keith at September 17, 2006 2:46 PM
Comment #182060

Keith,

“You forget that they have infinite patience. They don’t need to attack Europe. They are going to slowly overwhelm by immigration and conversion. The secularists in europe are not having children in numbers that will secure the survival of their culture, whereas the Muslim immigrants are having large families.”

What exactly is your point?

What laws do you expect to break to prevent this from happening?

“This isn’t really about whether the Pope insulted Islam, it’s about people who are insecure in their religion so much that any slight is perceived as a major insult. If your religion can’t stand on it’s own merit then you should look elsewhere.”

This is about insulting someones faith in the very tenents they believe in, and IMHO, is about doing it with purpose.
There were plenty of people insulted in the “piss Christ” I was one of them, but not because I found it blasphemous. I found it tasteless, I found it rude, I also found it to be dubious art.
It did not, however, attack the very tenets of Christianity. It did not call Christ a child molester, or a rapist.

Posted by: Rocky at September 17, 2006 3:13 PM
Comment #182062

Rocky,

I’m sorry what laws are you talking about. It’s not about laws it’s about Europe uderstanding what is going on and at least amke an attempt to assimilate into the local culture.

Posted by: Keith at September 17, 2006 3:24 PM
Comment #182064

Pope to Islam: “you are being unreasonable.”

Islam to Pope: “We will KILL YOU.”

Security is, of course, being beefed up around the Pope. One just could not make this stuff up.

Posted by: nikkolai at September 17, 2006 3:29 PM
Comment #182067

Keith,

This isn’t really about whether the Pope insulted Islam, it’s about people who are insecure in their religion so much that any slight is perceived as a major insult.

Uh, hello, saying EVERYTHING new that Muhammad introduced is “evil and inhuman” is far from being a slight. It amounts to saying that Islam is pure evil. You don’t have to be hyper-sensitive to be offended by that. (“Hi there, that crucifix around your neck represents evil. Hey, calm down! Just trying to have a dialogue here…”)

“Piss Christ” was the handiwork of a wacky artist, not a world leader like the Pope. Moreover, it was created in 1989, almost twenty years ago, and Christians still bring it up. Why are Christians so “insecure”?

Posted by: Woody Mena at September 17, 2006 3:46 PM
Comment #182071

Woody,

Sorry not a Christian.

And yes maybe it is a slight, but so what?

We listen to the Arab world make anti-semitic remarks constantly and we don’t burn down local mosques.

Posted by: Keith at September 17, 2006 4:04 PM
Comment #182072
Jihad is without parallel in any other religion.

Historically, there is a rather obvious parallel: the Christian Inquisitions (plural). You have certainly heard of the Spanish Inquisition. Thousands of people were burned at the stake. Jews were tortured and forced to convert.

Pope Benedict XVI should be well-informed about this. When he became Pope he was the Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - formerly known as the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition.

Posted by: Woody Mena at September 17, 2006 4:04 PM
Comment #182083

Woody,

That’s actually not historically correct. What they were looking for was Jews whoe were acting as Christians.

And, the church has apoligized over and over again.

Posted by: Keith at September 17, 2006 4:31 PM
Comment #182084

What is sad, disgusting and pathetic is that while Muslim groups carry on violent protests, terrorist campaigns around the world and GENOCIDE in the Sudan - people, decent people, go on websites like these and in the media vainly trying to defend these actions in the name of peace. We all want peace, but its already too late. Hundreds of thousands are dead in Darfur at the hands of Muslim ethnic cleansing, thousands of Americans and others around the world are dead at the hands of Muslim terrorists, and all the while Iran is building a war machine. Are America’s actions in the Middle East right now good or bad? I don’t know, it dosen’t really matter, it dosen’t change what’s happening . Are there equal or greater atrocities in the past of Christianity and other world religions? Yes. Is that a history we want to see repeated? If it is please keep what you are doing people. Appeasing, making excuses, ignoring the problem, turning away. Ignoring evil is not the same as creating peace.

Posted by: joe_thousandaire at September 17, 2006 4:32 PM
Comment #182095
What is sad, disgusting and pathetic is that while Muslim groups carry on violent protests, terrorist campaigns around the world and GENOCIDE in the Sudan - people, decent people, go on websites like these and in the media vainly trying to defend these actions in the name of peace.

This is a straw man argumnent. Nobody is defending terrorism and genocide here.

Keith,

It was both. Jews were forced to convert, and many Jews who did convert were accused of continuing to practice Judaism in secret.

Yeah, the Catholic Church has had to apologize for a lot of things, but that doesn’t erase the fact that it happened.

Posted by: Woody Mena at September 17, 2006 6:09 PM
Comment #182096

It never ceases to confound me that otherwise intelligent people seek to defend Islam by attacking Christianity. They drag out the Crusades and the inquisition as evidence of the violent nature of Christians.

I am not a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew and I don’t have a dog in this fight. But every major religion can point to a moment in their history where their hands were red with the blood of the innocent.

The difference is that Islam is the only major religion today that continues to sanction the use of violence against non-believers. Their hands are still red with the blood of the innocent.

If Islam was truly a religion of peace, how could a few thousand radicals hijack a religion practiced by a billion? And why does a billion let the thousands get away with it?

Pope Benedict has nothing to apologize for and he should never have been pressured to do so.


Posted by: ulysses at September 17, 2006 6:10 PM
Comment #182098

Ulysses,

When the most prominent leader of the Christian world starts pointing fingers, I think it is obvious and inevitable that some fingers will point back.

You need to consider the context too. I am talking about approximately the same historical period as Benedict was.

Your argument about sanctioning violence against non-believers is a bit dubious. Christians have a notion of just war. Jews (the faith I was brought up in) and Hindus have also had their low points in modern times.


By the way, I neglected to mentioned the Crusases. That’s another parallel to jihad. Thanks for reminding me.

Posted by: Woody Mena at September 17, 2006 6:21 PM
Comment #182130

Woody

I think the important thing is: does the Koran say to use the sword to convert the infidels or does it not?


And the Crusades were not the same as “jihad”. The Christians were responding to the Moors invading their lands.

Posted by: Keith at September 17, 2006 8:20 PM
Comment #182132

This just in from Jihad Watch.

I knew it was coming!


Israeli-US plot behind pope’s remarks: Iran hardline press

Well, we should have known all along: the Zionists are behind Pope Benedict’s remarks! Of course! From AFP, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:

Iranian hardline newspapers said there were signs of an Israeli-US plot behind remarks by Pope Benedict XVI that linked Islam to violence and created a wave of anger across the Muslim world.
The daily Jomhuri Islami said Israel and the United States — the Islamic republic’s two arch-enemies — could have dictated the comments to distract attention from the resistance of the Shiite militant group Hezbollah to Israel’s offensive on Lebanon.

“The reality is that if we do not consider Pope Benedict XVI to be ignorant of Islam, then his remarks against Islam are a dictat that the Zionists and the Americans have written (for him) and have submitted to him.”

“The American and the Zionist aim is to undermine the glorious triumph of Islam’s children of Lebanese Hezbollah, which annulled the undefeatable legend of the Israeli army and foiled the Satanic and colonialist American plot,” it said.


Posted by: sicilianeagle at September 17, 2006 8:24 PM
Comment #182153

I recently read an article about the Ottoman Muslim Empire that held sway over the Arab world from 1400-1800. In the article it called the Muslim’s expansions into Eastern Europe “acquisitions”. While another article by the same author called the Spanish conquest of South America a barbaric and cruel event. While I believe that the slaughter of my people by the Spanish was barbaric, I don’t see why the Muslim expansions were any less barbaric. Some might say that Islam is a religion of peace and love. But you should look at Islam’s history and compare it with Arab protests on CNN about the pope’s words. Yeah, a really benevolent religion.

Posted by: J Dog at September 17, 2006 9:34 PM
Comment #182170

cybersword, Im not a repug but I like your post 100%.
Muslims react to any little shit, back in 9-11 2001 I was studying medicine in a foreign country, many of my peers were muslims getting Stafford loans from the USA, nevertheless they were celebrating the downing of the WTC. Since that day I dont like them, NOT ONE defend it America. F**k them all

Posted by: obladi at September 17, 2006 11:45 PM
Comment #182176

I am truly amazed ar the Islamo-apologists who throw back their heads in an effort to accomodate and appease the knife of Islam pointed at the throat of civilization!

Are we fighting a war on terror, or aren’t we? Was it, or was it not, reignited and rejuvenated by the Allah-crazed-fascists who brought their blood-thirsty jihad to our shores in full fury on September 11, 2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation’s capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning, crushing death that day, or didn’t they?

And now, as a sensitive, multi-cultured and politically correct brain-washed citizen of the United Nations of the World, I’m supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was desecrated when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I don’t. I don’t care at all.

I’ll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on September 11.

I’ll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia.

I’ll care when the cowardly so-called insurgents in Iraq and Lebanon and Afghanistan come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by shooting at our soldiers while hiding in mosques.

I’ll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of a lustful paradise of 72 virgins care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

I’ll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution’s Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave Marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don’t care.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured that I don’t care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don’t care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed special food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being mishandled, you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don’t care.

So if you are asking me to care that the humanity-hating Cult of Islam was offended by the remarks of the pope…you know…frankly, my dear, I don’t care!

Posted by: cybersword at September 18, 2006 12:15 AM
Comment #182177

Keith
You are right in a way. The actual first victims of the inquisition was Cathars in 1213, They then moved on to the “witchs” where 8 million women died. They had forced Jews to become Christion inorder to control the money they thought they had - The same families prospered after conversion. There were public demonstrations of profession of Christianity (until Hitler the Spanish and Portugese Synagogue was registered and known as the “Jewish Church”) Niether Amsterdam, Paris or Spain were safe from this new hunt for Marronos (Pigs). Many met their death - the number is unknown for the 600 years of the night and fog called the Inquisition. In 1492 Queen Isabel was convinsed that the Marrano pleague was due to the presence of the Jews. So began the Exile. Jews hid all over and prospered in their new lands.
I was privilaged enough to meet an entire village in the Andies that was Jewish. They were Conversos (New Christians) who had been used to colonize South America by Spain. Even the parish priest was of Hebrew stock. He presented His father’s Tiffillin and prayer book to me for aiding his village settlement in Israel. We know the church well. We wish her to know G-d and control her passion for conversion.
K

Posted by: kuzriel at September 18, 2006 12:18 AM
Comment #182207
This is a straw man argumnent. Nobody is defending terrorism and genocide here.

Terrorism and genocide is what is happening in the muslim world right now. This post is about violent reaction in Muslim society to recent quotations made by the pope. Some people on this page seem determined to defend this violence, or atleast downplay its importance. And for what purpose? To show that if Christians did it in the past then its O.K. for Muslims to do it now? Perhaps you see Jihad as a justifiable responce to “American Imperialism” or the advance of Christian dominated societies. Perhaps looking back on history you see the rise of Fascism in Germany as a justifiable response to the reparations of WWI? Whatever your reasoning, if you are defending any part of these protests, you are defending the philosophy which drives the protesters - Jihad. If you are ignoring the importance of these protests you are ignoring the threat of Jihad. Jihad that is responsible for terrorist attacks, Jihad that is responsible for genocide in The Sudan.

Posted by: joe_thousandaire at September 18, 2006 2:55 AM
Comment #182317

Ha! This would all be funny except for the part where the muslim world will us this issue to commit more violence.

But first, not all major religions have a violent past. Buddhism. Although buddhist have participated in secular wars, no “holy” war has been fought by buddhists.

I wonder if the remarks of the Pope have not been taken out of context? I have only read a snippet of the speach and it starts with “which reminds me of the words of …” What was the thought that brought him to use the quote in question in the first place?

As far as the reported muslim reaction. It is ridiculous to react to criticism of one’s being violent by staging violent protests and threatening more violence if one is trying to prove that one is peaceful and the criticism is wrong. Otherwise are not the muslims proving the critics correct? There is a lot of talk about moderate and peaceful muslims. Wouldn’t this be time for the moderates to make themselves be heard and say somthing like, “Everyone has a right to an opinion. Just because someone speaks the opinion does not make it true. We know in our hearts that this criticism is untrue and will prove it in our actions.”

I have met muslims, or at least people from muslim nations, in the past and find them no better or worse than others I have met. However, if the “muslim street” does not stop frothing at the mouth at every derogatory comment and opinion, then the world community will have to consider them rabid and treat them as such.

Posted by: GMDuggan at September 18, 2006 2:48 PM
Comment #182457

ulysses says he is not any religion but a humanist? Well guess what? The Muslims don’t care what you are if you are not a hate mongering rabid islamist then you are sword food.

You don’t get it now but maybe before it is too late you will.

I still say bury all of them in pig skin coats with pig blood poured over them and shown on al jazeer tv and put the word out that this is how all will be buried if violence does not cease.

It is their taboo not ours so use it. What a bunch of dumb sh*ts.

Posted by: lm at September 19, 2006 1:03 AM
Comment #186566

How can you not expect Islam to be a somewhat violent religion when it was made in a time of war. Many parts of the bible talk about killing non believers. Like when anybody who didnt paint there doorways with the blood of sheep got their first son killed. So obviously people who didnt believe in god didnt paint there doors. And would have gotten their sons killed. Non believers=infidels.
Now i understand their can be violent muslims and extremists. But those of you talking about how all muslims must be destroyed, and how peacefull muslims will convert to radicalists, this is just stupid. Many government officials are muslim. They practice good moral values and thus have been elected.

Posted by: Littlebirds at October 5, 2006 9:35 PM
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