Fighting With Both Hands Tied Behind The Back

Those two soldiers who were brutally tortured, mutilated, killed, and then booby-trapped yesterday give us yet another reason why the military should have the authority to take off the gloves against these animals. It is getting to the point where one side is fighting by the Marquis de Queensbury rules with every human rights group there is looking over their shoulder, while the other side is using brass knuckles. Today in Iraq, someone is very happy that those brave soldiers died the way they did, and want to kill even more of our servicemen the same way.

Maybe it is time to consider the possibility that animals do not deserve to be treated under any formal rules of human constraint, and like the rabid dogs that they are, perhaps they should be bombed back into the stone age.

Human beings do not torture people by drilling into their heads, arms and legs and then subsequently beheading that poor soul. Psychotic killers do. It has become very apparent that the Sunni insurgency has adopted the tactics of horror, abject horror, as their main battle weapon.

I am getting to the mindset now, that for a particular segment of the Sunni population, hearts and minds were never in the rubric, and that politics is impotent against this particular group.

During the Second World War, an entire generation of young was wiped out by the Allies in both Nazi Germany and Nationalist Japan, and the remaining young then re-educated and indoctrinated. The purging of those mindsets ultimately lead to both countries moving toward a less fanatical mindset by the general population, and ultimately democracy. However, it was accomplished first by ruthless suppression of the enemy.

It is apparent that Sunni fanaticism must be obliterated. In parts of Baghdad, people are being killed because they wear hair gel, or they wear shorts, or they use ice, or they eat falafel (because the Jews eat falafel), or because they wear Western-style clothing. The Prophet, they say, used none of the above, and neither should the faithful. Believers of this madness now kill those who wear hair gel, shorts, eat falafel, or dress in Western clothing with modern assault rifles and drills....the ultimate hypocrisy.

We must change the name on the war now. In is no longer the War On Terror. It has to be called The War On Fanaticism. A good place to start this war, I think is by killing every imam and destroying every mosque in the Sunni Triangle that espouses this philosophy. As we did in Japan and Germany, the mindset must be destroyed, obliterated, and annihilated , once and for all.

I am no military genius, but I think I would order air strikes on every radical mosque within one hundred miles of the spot where those soldiers were found on prayer day (Fridays) for starters. For this operation, I would leave the troops in their bases and start the process of bombing certain parts of the Sunni Triangle back into the 10Th century, where they want to be anyway.

As the saying goes: We can be your best friend, or your worst enemy. It's time to be the worst enemy now, I think.

Posted by Sicilian Eagle at June 21, 2006 11:29 AM
Comments
Comment #159984

SE, you are exactly right. Your are no military genius.

While I often disagree with you, I usually respect your thinking. Not in this case.

I understand you are pissed off, but you cannot bomb-away and idea or a way of thinking. It’s like mushrooms. Have you ever tried to get rid of a patch of mushrooms with fire crackers? The more you blow them up, the more they spread.

These terrorists who did this to our soldiers are animals. I, too, would get great pleasure out of torturing the hell out of these guys to get them back for this act. But we have to remember that we cannot allow them to make us sink to their level. We are better than that.

What we need to do is allow their actions to continue to marginalize these radicals in their own back yard. We need their neighbors and the more reasonable Sunnis in these places to disown these radicals. We caught up with al Zarkawi (sp?) by getting someone close to him to give him up. I think the best way to conquer these guys is to get as many of their neighbors as possible to turn against them. We don’t do this by blowing the place to bits.

Posted by: Jeff at June 21, 2006 12:03 PM
Comment #159986
Human beings do not torture people by drilling into their heads, arms and legs and then subsequently beheading that poor soul. Psychotic killers do.

Unfortunatly, History had shown several times that human did and still do all that. Human is the most brutal and crual animal specie on earth. Seems it come with human condition.

Deshumanizing your enemy to grant yourself the right to behave in similar (if not worst, like using nukes on civilians) way may sounds an easy solution, but its flawed.
As soon as one will see an full heartbreaking iraqui little girl wounded by white phosphorous ammo - aka chimical weapon - or nukes fallout or whatever new monstruous weapon could be drop on her, you’ll become your own enemy.

“They’re far worst” is not a defendable line when it come to breaking human rights.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 21, 2006 12:12 PM
Comment #159987

Y’know what would stop them from killing our soldiers? Our soldiers not being there.

Posted by: David S at June 21, 2006 12:12 PM
Comment #159988

SE,

As the saying goes: We can be your best friend, or your worst enemy. It’s time to be the worst enemy now, I think.

Your suggestion sounds more like “we can be our worst enemy” than anything else.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 21, 2006 12:15 PM
Comment #159989

SE, I don’t agree with the kill-them-all strategy,. but I understand your frustration - the US should be able to do better than this!

Sept 11, 2006 is only a few months away. Five years after Pearl Harbor, we’d won WWII, even with “both hands behind our backs”. Five years after 9/11, bin Laden is still around, the Taliban is back, and we’re spending most of our energy mired in Iraq, which we went into for the most dubious of reasons.

Do you think all this is related to the fact that our civilian leadership is a bunch of corrupt, incompetent, cronies?

Posted by: William Cohen at June 21, 2006 12:17 PM
Comment #159990

We do not win by becoming animals. We win by retaining our humanity, bolstering our security, and letting their actions become the rope they hang themselves with.

Your response is what they want to provoke: fighting fire with fire, inflicting atrocities on innocent people in our quest to destroy our enemy, and thereby confirming our “real” nature.

This is how terrorists kicked the French out of Algeria, the Zionists kicked the British out of Palestine, and so on and so forth. Get people to question substantively whether they’re on the right side anymore, and you can turn public opinion both on the battlefield and in the enemy’s home country against them much easier.

It is a shameful irony that we might turn to our moral superiority as a reason to fight dirtier. The fact is, we want our soldiers, our citizens, our enemy, and the civilians in Iraq to know we are better. We want to prove ourselves superior, not merely claim ourselves so while wallowing in the same mud as our opponent.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 21, 2006 12:21 PM
Comment #159992

So, instead of taking the high road, we should just come down to their level all kill as many Iraqis as we can. Then who are the terrorists? Then who are the war criminals?

These two were killed by two Iraqi patrolmen that they were patroling with. How can blowing up Mosques save us from the enemy that haved joined our forces just wating to kill us?

You rant as no logic. I understand your rage, but you need to funnel the energy in a more positive way. We are the U.S. and have a certain standard of morality and ethics we need to maintain, we don’t become terrorists just because terrorists attack us!

Posted by: nick at June 21, 2006 12:22 PM
Comment #159993

SE,

I am no military genius, but I think I would order air strikes on every radical mosque within one hundred miles of the spot where those soldiers were found on prayer day (Fridays) for starters. For this operation, I would leave the troops in their bases and start the process of bombing certain parts of the Sunni Triangle back into the 10Th century, where they want to be anyway.

BTW, if you massively bomb any mosque on friday, I bet you would have to say bye bye to troops bases as soon as saturday.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 21, 2006 12:22 PM
Comment #159995

I am tired of taking the high road also, SE. What we needed was a short, brutal war and short occupation; rather than a short PC war and a long period of occupation. The US is damned if we do and damned if we don’t so we should not pay any attention to “world opinion” and the opinion of those who would would see us defeated. We should do what it takes to make the terrorists disappear.

Posted by: Seminole 6 at June 21, 2006 12:34 PM
Comment #159996

I agree with you except for the bombing part. Our country has become soft. We have lost much of the honor that we once had. It used to be if we were brutally attacked we fought back hard and fast. People were actually scared to attack us. Now there is no fear we have people who are are able to attack us with out fear of reprisals. We need to bring honor back to our country. We need to let the terrorist know we are not going to take this laying down.

I remember my history lesson. WWII Japan. after the A bomb was dropped twice Japan surrendered. The emperor came on live TV and we made him say that he was not a God. At that time the general populace thought of him as a God. We need to do the same type of thing now. We need to capture a top level leader and make (by what ever means needed) say that what he was doing was wrong and that he rejects those who do it as not being from Allah. The more we do that the more the minds and hearts will turn.

I also think we need to set forth our forces on a house by house raid and everyone they find who is insurgency kill on the spot. then let their bodies stay in the public eye for a day so that they learn the result of attacking our men in this manner will not be tolerated. We need to obliterate the whole movement. I have no problem with this. Teddy Roosevelt said it correctly “Speak softly but carry a big stick” It is time to use that big stick.

Posted by: Randall Jeremiah at June 21, 2006 12:39 PM
Comment #159997

SE,

I sympathize with wanting all of the insurgents dead. Furthermore, history seems to support this idea. For instance, the Romans were extremely good at dealing with insurgencies. Something about seeing hundreds of people crucified for one or two people assaulting a Roman soldier probably tended to do that to people. In addition, in WWII, we reduced every major city in Germany to rubble and left thier populations completely dependent upon us for the basic needs of life. The Germans were totally defeated and broken and unwilling to try and resist, even if they wanted to.

That being said, I have to agree with Jeff and Phillipe on this one. Killing imams and bulldozing mosques is not the way to go. Right now, not every Sunni is our enemy. Killing their imams and blowing up their mosques will make it that way. Furthermore, it will only further enrage the rest of the Sunni population worldwide. If we start killing Sunnis in Iraq, we might as well nuke the rest of the Muslim world and just be done with it quickly. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want that on my conscience.

Posted by: 1LT B at June 21, 2006 12:39 PM
Comment #159998

David S-

It is the opinion of many poster here (it has been written many times) that if we were not fighting in Iraq, then we would have to fight them on our own soil. You know, the invasion force that needs to be transported in the coach section of a corperate run airliner.

How easy can you get? An invasion force with a paper trail! Unless of course they buy an airline…then they’ll probably get gov’t subsidies and corperate welfare.

Personally, I say let them come. I feel more confident in our ability to spot a Saudi terrorist, or Jordanian suicide bomber in Texas than I am in our ability to spot them in Iraq.

Although I wouldn’t doubt they could get their rocket propelled grenades through most “security” checkpoints in our airports, overall the threat ranks down there with the threat of someone tainting Halloween candy with LSD.

Posted by: Kevin23 at June 21, 2006 12:40 PM
Comment #159999

Seminole 6
taking the high road????!!!!
Abu Ghareb and our torture of prisonors isn’t taking the “highroad”! It just make those of our enemies want to make a bigger statement.

Posted by: qat at June 21, 2006 12:42 PM
Comment #160000

Steven,
Funny….I thought our belief that we are “morally superior” is the main reason the rest of the world hates us. The discussions on this blog site that push this agenda are numerous.

Now you proclaim we ARE morally superior and should not sink to their level. Which is it?

You flip-flopping lefties need to decide what you stand for and stick with it. What did you say about the “rope they hang themselves with”???

BTW, as much as it distresses me to admit it, I agree with your position that we need maintain our moral superiority over these thugs. We still need to defeat them, for sure. However, we can continue to do that without sinking to their level of desparation.

Philippe H:
If the terrorists COULD destroy all of our troop bases in a single day, don’t you think they WOULD HAVE ALREADY?? Don’t give them more credit than they deserve. I really hope you don’t honestly believe that they are “waiting for the right moment”….

Posted by: Rich at June 21, 2006 12:49 PM
Comment #160001

Seminole 6-

“We should do what it takes to make the terrorists disappear.”

Terrorists are not some kind of different species…they are humans who have been de-sensitized and de-humanized by violence. They are CREATED.

Guess what creates them? The very violence inherent in making them “disappear.”

Posted by: Kevin23 at June 21, 2006 12:49 PM
Comment #160003

Rich-

I think the point was that we are currently fighting militants whereas, if we bombed mosques, we’d be inciting the entire civilian population to immediate action.

Posted by: Kevin23 at June 21, 2006 12:51 PM
Comment #160005

Well so much for that stupid Geneva Convention. Hope all y’all bleeding hearts that like to tie the hands of our troops with rules the enemy don’t follow are happy.
There ain’t no such thing as a humane war. The only way to win any war is to be meaner and tougher than the enemy. As soon as the bleeding hearts learn this and stop tying our troops hands behind their backs the sooner we will win this war.
But that won’t happen because the bleeding hearts are more worried about how we look in the eyes of a world that’s laughing at us for not fighting like we want to win.
Somehow I get the idea that before this is over the same bunch that’s been screaming about how immoral this war is will be blaming these two poor soldiers for what happened to them.

Posted by: Ron Brown at June 21, 2006 12:55 PM
Comment #160007

Abu Ghareb and our torture of prisonors isn’t taking the “highroad”! It just make those of our enemies want to make a bigger statement.

Posted by: qat at June 21, 2006 12:42 PM

Have you seen any pictures of this ‘torture”? All I’ve seen pictures of is a little humiliation. Naked men stacked on in a pyramid is not torture. The rack, the water screen, beating, etc. are. Where are the pictures of that?

Posted by: Ron Brown at June 21, 2006 1:00 PM
Comment #160008

SE, Seminole 6,

“The US is damned if we do and damned if we don’t so we should not pay any attention to “world opinion” and the opinion of those who would would see us defeated. We should do what it takes to make the terrorists disappear.”

Isn’t this a hearts and minds thing?

If we cannot get the Iraqis to help us stop situations like this from happening in the first place, then this “Grand Experiment” is a total waste of time and why are we still there.

This is a heinous act perpetrated by heinous people. To blame the entire population for this act would be a huge error, and makes us no better than those we fight.

You guys have brought up WW2 over and over in reference to the way we have fought this war, and the way it has been reported.

Let me enlighten you to one simple fact:

It’s not 1945 any more, and we are not fighting any European army. These guys play by their own rules, not by ours.

Murtha’s right, we need to withdraw to a perimeter, and let the Iraqis figure out whether they want our help or not.

Any “revenge” we enact because of this will only make matters worse in the long run.

If we only react like animals, we deserve what we get.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 1:01 PM
Comment #160009

“The only way to win any war is to be meaner and tougher than the enemy.”

For example: do you mean that to win WWII we needed to do more ethnic cleansing than the Germans? Or rape and kill more civilians than the Japanese?

My guess is that much of our post-war success stemmed at least indirectly from the fact that we were not notorious for our inhumanity during the war.

Posted by: Kevin23 at June 21, 2006 1:02 PM
Comment #160010

qat,
Have a few of our soldiers done the wrong thing? Have they betrayed our trust? Unfortunately, a few have.

The big difference is we hold our own accountable for those actions. We try them and punish them.

How much do you want to bet me that the scumbags that tortured and killed the soldiers are being given a pat on the back by their scumbag bosses? Step back from the Kool-Aid, please.

Kev,
I seriously doubt that would be the result, but if it was….maybe you’re on to something. We haven’t had much success in getting them to unify for any other reason.

(that was sarcasm, for those who don’t get it…)

Posted by: Rich at June 21, 2006 1:04 PM
Comment #160011

Rocky,
SE didn’t advocate killing every single Iraqi. I think he wants to target the Sunni areas that support and aid the fanatics.

The target is those who motivate others into continuing violence against the Iraqi citizens in addition to our troops.

Posted by: Rich at June 21, 2006 1:10 PM
Comment #160012

Rich,

OK, I’ll be more specific.

To blame the entire SUNI population for this act would be a huge error, and makes us no better than those we fight.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 1:15 PM
Comment #160017

All

Maybe I should clear something us, as it appears I didn’t make myself clear in the opening article.

I am not suggesting using a nuclear bomb or blasting every Sunni mosque into oblivion.

Rather, I think we can/have identified those imams and sheiks who hold the most radical Wahhabist view there.

Those are the animals I am referring to, NOT mainstream Sunnis.

To me, those mosques are nests of hate. Every Friday, the message of “Kill the infidel” has brainwashed the people. Those are the people I am talking about….those who use religion, who hide behind a religion, to perform murder.

ILT B was right about the Romans. During one period, tribal conflicts broke out between the three main tribes in Parthia. The Romas couldn’t contain it, so they partitioned the country into three, forbidding travel and trade, and killing any who broke the edict. For 40 years the area saw peace. Obviusouly, with the geo-political today, partion isn’t an option, but ruthlessley eliminating those who have highjacked Islam is.

Right now, the Shia are under control in terms of attacking coalition forces, it seems. Their militia instead are engaged in tit for tat sectarian killing with the Sunni. The Kurds also are somewhat under control.

Analyze the problem: Roughly 20% of Iraq’s population is Sunni. Iraq’s population is 28,000,000 which means about 5,600,000 or so are Sunni. Half of that amount are women, leaving 2,800,000 males. From that amount,half are either the very young or the very old, leaving 1,400,000 males between the ages of puberty and old age. What percentage is fanatical? 20% of that amount? That means 280,000. If it’s 10%, that means 140,000, if it’s 5%, that means it’s 70,000. There’s you problem…from a population of 28 million, somewhere between 70,000 to 140,000 fanatics exist in Iraq, a combination of Baathists leftovers are in that group.

I may be off base here, but it seems like we have a whole bunch of people here that need to be nullified so the other 27 some odd million can survive.

Here is the question: Can you win the hearts and minds of fanatics?

I have concluded that you cannot.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 21, 2006 1:27 PM
Comment #160021

What Rocky said. I agree 100%.
It is horrible and dispicable what they did to our troops — and there will only be more of this sh*t the longer we stay. We never belonged there in the first place, and we should re-deploy our troops as quickly as we can. Look at what is happening in Afghanistan right now — that is where we needed to be, and where we should once more focus our efforts.

Posted by: Adrienne at June 21, 2006 1:40 PM
Comment #160022

SE,

“Here is the question: Can you win the hearts and minds of fanatics?

I have concluded that you cannot.”

When we went into Iraq, we were told we had the “hearts and minds” of the Iraqi people.
It seems we still don’t.

The new Iraqi “government” is toothless, and can’t be trusted.

What has really changed except we have lost over 2500 brave souls on a fool’s errand?

Does America truely wish to “sell it’s soul” to finish this off?

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 1:44 PM
Comment #160023

I think McCain put it best when he said, “It’s not about who they are, it’s about who we are.”

Posted by: chantico at June 21, 2006 1:48 PM
Comment #160024

SE-

You are right, you cannot win the hearts and minds of fanatics, but you can go a long way towards not creating new fanatics. Killing them only serves to make them martyrs in the eyes of those who listen to them, not all of whom would have ended up turning to violence.

Posted by: David S at June 21, 2006 1:49 PM
Comment #160025

Sic-

I cannot say that I dis-agree under ALL circumstances that bombing mosques is wrong, but it’s definately one of the last resorts. My guess would be (based on what I see and read is already going on) that much of the most extreme American pro-war rhetoric is coming from our most conservative chrisian leaders while giving “inspiring” sermons to thousands in a magachurches. Bombing those churches would enrage even a heretic atheist like me into immediate action.

We are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to fighting the propoganda war. Lets try not to fight that war with arms tied as well.

Posted by: Kevin23 at June 21, 2006 1:50 PM
Comment #160027

Kevin23-I was thinking the same sort of thing.

“We may not like them, but they are *our* Christians, and you’d better not mess with them”

Posted by: DOC at June 21, 2006 1:56 PM
Comment #160029

Rocky

That’s silly. Iraq is the world’s main battleground for terror, and it’s down to the 10 yard line now, much to your chagrin, and those of the left rooing that the mission fails.

Toothless? Give the new government one year, and my post will be uncessary. The fanatics ARE the major enemy for the new governmet. Soon, they will be swarming them.

You say toothless. I say they are just cutting their teeth.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 21, 2006 2:00 PM
Comment #160030

“Give the new government one year, and my post will be uncessary. “

Weren’t you saying this last year?

Posted by: chantico at June 21, 2006 2:04 PM
Comment #160031

Rich-
No, it’s not our belief that we are superior, it’s our belief combined with actions that contradict that assertion. I’m not saying America’s not a great country. It is. I’m just saying we should act like it, and stop giving the enemy the free propaganda of hypocrisy to use against us.

Meanwhile, we should become agents of order within Iraq, and by doing so contrast ourselves with our enemies, who are causing chaos and destruction. Let them take the blame for the havoc they cause, when they manage to cause it.

Ron Brown-
The Geneva convention doesn’t tie our troops hands. It distinguishes them from the enemy, which is a good thing.

You don’t win by becoming meaner and tougher than the enemy, but by denying them the ability to continue fighting. There are ways for us to do that without betraying our civilized values.

As for those two soldiers, I hardly think they shot, mutilated, decapitated, and desecrated themselves. But if you want to so swiftly come to that kind of conclusion about us, that’s your problem, not mine.

As for Abu Ghraib, I just wonder how loud you would be screaming if you saw pictures and videos of American soldiers sexually humiliated and threatened with attack dogs. I know I would be calling for blood myself.

SE-
We could destroy their buildings, but not their cause. We closed a damn newspaper, and it set off the Najaf episode. You think bombing the Mosques would do any more good? It would be a provocation to Muslims there, and Muslims abroad.

You don’t kill the radicalism by justifying it like this. You do it by making their threats and radicalism idle talk, by tightening security and cracking down hard. There are plenty of people who espouse radical rhetoric, yet don’t have the guts to do anything themselves. That’s what we have to reduce these people to.

Then, as conditions improve, they will moderate behavior by giving folks things to lose. The point is not to eradicate insurgents, but rather to domesticate them, to use the pressure you can impose to discourage the acting out of violent impulses. The key is to drown them in the order of their own society, make has-beens out of them.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 21, 2006 2:04 PM
Comment #160032

Almost 300 billion dollars and 5 years and all we get is barely cut teeth?

All things aside, how much more time and money will it cost for them to have big-boy teeth?

I don’t see how anyone can say we’re at the 10 yard line seeing as how we still have no date set and we can’t even secure the green zone. Sounds more like 3 and long and out of field goal range.

Posted by: Kevin23 at June 21, 2006 2:06 PM
Comment #160033

Adrienne

What a pleasure for an award winner like yourself to visit the thread today! I noticed that yesterday you and JBOD went mano a mano on another thread, or mana a mano,whatever ever the case may be.

However, we have such diametrically opposed views on this, I fear getting a callus typing a response that you won’t believe anyway. Suffice to say that I do enjoy your comments, I respect your liberal passion, and I think you a loyal American, although one who views things differently than I.

Maybe someday,sometimes during the next republican presidential administration,you’ll throw up ypur hands and change your views. :)

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 21, 2006 2:06 PM
Comment #160038

SE, I agree with you that we need to take the gloves off. We need to do to the Sunni Triangle what we did to Fallujah; send in the marines and “drain the swamp”. We also should use (alot) more Air strikes…


Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 2:17 PM
Comment #160040
and that politics is impotent against this particular group.

Actually, politics right now is most important to all sides involved. More specifically, it is geopolitics that is important. There are two wars taking place in Iraq right now. There is the insurgency, the battle between the Sunni and Shia’s in their jockeying for power. And there is Al Qaeda, whose intention is to inflame this situation by promoting retaliatory attacks.

UBL’s goal is to overthrow secular Arab states and to negate and remove western influence in this region. That by invading Iraq in the first placed was predicted and played in UBL’s hand is under appreciated. UBL can only win, if he can convince the Arab world that their only choice, is to rise up against the West.

While the killing and mutilation of these young soldiers is despicable. It should not be ignored, that attacks against our troops and contractors have dropped precipitously in the past year. What has increased is the killing between the two main populations involved. Security is the number one concern of the average Iraqi. The only way the United States can extricate itself honorably from this ill-conceived war. Is to provide a mechanism for that security and a reasonable opportunity for an equitable government to be established. A backlash using a broad sword against the population of Iraq in retaliation for what just happened. Will only inflame the general population and play into UBL’s hand.

Posted by: Cube at June 21, 2006 2:27 PM
Comment #160041

LOL. No wonder there is so much road rage here in the U.S. If someone disrepects you, just lash out them regardless of the rules or the possible outcome.

Posted by: nick at June 21, 2006 2:27 PM
Comment #160048

Ok, I warned you guys, through several posts yesterday, about the ones that said (months ago) “We don’t want to be like our enemy”, to “step up” and defend your opinions and none of you did. Well today, I’ve copied and pasted the ones that reiterate the same (damn) thing about Iraq (today).


“We do not win by becoming animals. We win by retaining our humanity, bolstering our security, and letting their actions become the rope they hang themselves with…It is a shameful irony that we might turn to our moral superiority as a reason to fight dirtier. The fact is, we want our soldiers, our citizens, our enemy, and the civilians in Iraq to know we are better.”
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 21, 2006 12:21 PM


“Deshumanizing your enemy to grant yourself the right to behave in similar (if not worst, like using nukes on civilians) way may sounds an easy solution, but its flawed.”
Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 21, 2006 12:12 PM


“Any “revenge” we enact because of this will only make matters worse in the long run. If we only react like animals, we deserve what we get.”
Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 01:01 PM


I’m so(ooo) glad you guys aren’t in charge; I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.

Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 2:53 PM
Comment #160051

SE,

“That’s silly. Iraq is the world’s main battleground for terror, and it’s down to the 10 yard line now, much to your chagrin, and those of the left rooing that the mission fails.”

That is such a load of crap. Only a lawyer would play that card.

Oh, I forgot, you’re a lawyer.

“Toothless? Give the new government one year, and my post will be uncessary. The fanatics ARE the major enemy for the new governmet. Soon, they will be swarming them.”

If we stepped away right now, would the Iraqi government stand or fall?

If we stepped away right now, would the Iraqi government take responsibility to capture, and prosecute those that committed this heinous act?

If the answer is no, we are propping up the Iraqi government and even when we leave, acts such as these will continue, because, even if the insurgency has no respect for us, they will have even less for those that we set in power.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 3:04 PM
Comment #160055

rahdigly,

“I’m so(ooo) glad you guys aren’t in charge; I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.”

You’re guys are in charge, so we don’t have to imagine the ruin of that which once was America.

We all get to see it live and in color.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 3:11 PM
Comment #160059

Sicilianeagle,


Why were 3 men in the triangle of death by them selves manning a checkpoint?
I don’t see it as the soldiers fighting with their hands tied behind their backs as with their leaders(Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld)having their thumbs up their asses.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at June 21, 2006 3:29 PM
Comment #160061

Seminole 6
taking the high road????!!!!
Abu Ghareb and our torture of prisonors isn’t taking the “highroad”! It just make those of our enemies want to make a bigger statement.

Posted by: qat at June 21, 2006 12:42 PM

Qat - I have been in many of the facilities where these people are held - including ABU and GTMO. There is not, and never has been, any torture of these people. We are who we are, they are medieval savages - we do not stoop to their level.

Posted by: Seminole 6 at June 21, 2006 3:31 PM
Comment #160062

Rock, the people in charge now are keeping America what it is (was and always will be): proud, brave, patriotic and free. If you guys had your way you’d be watching it “live and in color” but in Arabic! Better believe that!!


The libs would be exactly like the French in WWII; when the Nazis were marhcing in Paris and the Frenchmen were crying b/c they were emasculated and couldn’t do anything about it. History (certainly) has a way of repeating itself (if the libs have their way)…

Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 3:35 PM
Comment #160067

“The libs would be exactly like the French in WWII; when the Nazis were marhcing in Paris and the Frenchmen were crying b/c they were emasculated and couldn’t do anything about it. History (certainly) has a way of repeating itself (if the libs have their way)…”

Flame baiting again rahdigly?

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 3:43 PM
Comment #160068

Andre

Everything that happens gets imputed the president, doesn’t it? Unbelievable. How about going with the thread. However, The question why 3 soldiers were in a dangerous situation in the first place does need and answer.


Rocky

We both know that the Iraqi army has come light years in a short amount of time, and we both know that for a while longer,they need the Americans to back them up. The new government is,what, 4 weeks old? Let’s see what happens by year’s end, which is pretty darn close to what I predicted last January.

The over the hozizon thing, I hope, gets adopted by the rest of the Democrats. This way, the Repubs winn both houses anain in November.

Did you see Murtha on Tim Russert’s program on Sunday. He suggested the “horizon” be Okinawa. Except someone forgot to tell him that they want us out of there. Does this guy ever thing before flapping his gums, or what?

Cube
Good post. I agree with you. I’d like to see some payback, that all. It’s a Sicilian thing, I think. :)

Stephen

Where did I say fight dirtier? I said we have to eliminate all those hwho are fermenting hatred. They are the root cause, not us.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 21, 2006 3:47 PM
Comment #160069

Sic Eagle:
“What a pleasure for an award winner like yourself to visit the thread today!”

Oh, happy to oblige. When is the next award ceremony to be held?

“Suffice to say that I do enjoy your comments, I respect your liberal passion,

Yes, I see you enjoy and respect them so much that you must always be so patronising.

“and I think you a loyal American,”

Yes, indeed I am. But I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me so.

“although one who views things differently than I.”

That’s a given.

“Maybe someday,sometimes during the next republican presidential administration,you’ll throw up ypur hands and change your views. :)”

No, I won’t change my views, and I hope the next administration won’t be Republican — but if it is an old-school conservative administration, that wouldn’t be the end of the world, IMO. If, however, it’s another insane, radical, and totally dishonest Neocon administration like the current one is, that’s a whole other story entirely.

Posted by: Adrienne at June 21, 2006 3:59 PM
Comment #160072

SE,

BTW your accused guys have now been indited and charged with murder, larceny, kidnapping, and house breaking.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 4:07 PM
Comment #160077

rocky

Wrong guys.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 21, 2006 4:24 PM
Comment #160082

Sorry,

Eight other guys were indited today.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 4:33 PM
Comment #160089

I have a question. How do you define victory in Iraq? Is it just when Bush says we’ve won? What moment will tell us when we have won? What are the goals for us still being there? What concrete objectives are we trying to achieve, and how will we know when we’ve achieved them?

Right now I get the impression that any suggestion that we remove our troops will be called “cut and run” as a political ploy by the Republicans, but without such objectives all we have is eternal occupation. I’m against a fixed time-dependent pullout, but I’m definitely for a concrete, results-based pullout.

I’ve asked this question before, and I’d really like an answer. Or is the plan just to stay forever?

Posted by: Brian Poole at June 21, 2006 4:54 PM
Comment #160097

Rocky,
“Flame baiting again rahdigly?”


I see you dodged the actual response (once again).

“BTW your accused guys have now been indited and charged with murder, larceny, kidnapping, and house breaking.”


Oh, so now they’re “your” guys! Well, they are Americans and they have the right to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Are you going to give them their American right; or are you going to presume they are guilty until proven innocent?


“Eight other guys were indited today.”


You seem giddy with that comment.

Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 5:15 PM
Comment #160099

If we would just send a very large group of libs to Iraq to talk with these peace-loving terrorists, we could get them to give up and join our enlightened society as productive and loving people.

Posted by: Don at June 21, 2006 5:18 PM
Comment #160105

rahdigly,

” I see you dodged the actual response (once again).”

Was there a point to the response that I need to respond to?

Statements like;

“Rock, the people in charge now are keeping America what it is (was and always will be): proud, brave, patriotic and free. If you guys had your way you’d be watching it “live and in color” but in Arabic!”

are pointless, and don’t have a basis in fact. Therefore responding to them only leads to a grand circular tour of useless comments, always leading back to the beginning, and another ad nauseum attack.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 5:35 PM
Comment #160108

rahdigly,

“You seem giddy with that comment.”

Giddy?

Please.

Just once I wish you would just read the words and not try to find some hidden meaning.

BTW, I did notice you omitted the “Sorry” from your point.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 5:45 PM
Comment #160112

SE:

If it’s 10%, that means 140,000, if it’s 5%, that means it’s 70,000. There’s you problem…from a population of 28 million, somewhere between 70,000 to 140,000 fanatics exist in Iraq, a combination of Baathists leftovers are in that group.

So, what are your plans for going in and identifying the 70-140,000 fanatics and taking them out? Can you say genocide? And what if they are not all fanatics? How will you (or anyone) tell?

Perhaps there are other groups who are fanatics. What of them?

This seems to me to be an unworkable and very undesirable plan.

BTW: can we do this here at home to any group?

Posted by: womanmarine at June 21, 2006 5:55 PM
Comment #160113

Adding:

Can we do this to any group here at home we (or anyone) consider (religious)fanatics (which I presume you are referring to)?

If not, why not?

And if so, who decides?

Posted by: womanmarine at June 21, 2006 5:57 PM
Comment #160180

Rock, I see you keep dodging the comments; especially ones that catch you (red handed) on what you said. As you will clearly see, I said “I’m so(ooo) glad you guys aren’t in charge; I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.” after I posted your “We don’t want to be like them” crap. If you actually read this then you’ll realize that your retorts are just defensive and elusive. It’s so(ooo) funny watching you squirm when you’re presented with your own words.

Here’s my original comment:
“Ok, I warned you guys, through several posts yesterday, about the ones that said (months ago) “We don’t want to be like our enemy”, to “step up” and defend your opinions and none of you did. Well today, I’ve copied and pasted the ones that reiterate the same (damn) thing about Iraq (today).

“Deshumanizing your enemy to grant yourself the right to behave in similar (if not worst, like using nukes on civilians) way may sounds an easy solution, but its flawed.”
Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 21, 2006 12:12 PM


“Any “revenge” we enact because of this will only make matters worse in the long run. If we only react like animals, we deserve what we get.”
Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 01:01 PM


I’m so(ooo) glad you guys aren’t in charge; I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.”


Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 02:53

Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 8:31 PM
Comment #160186

rahdigly,

“Any “revenge” we enact because of this will only make matters worse in the long run. If we only react like animals, we deserve what we get.”

So please elucidate. feel free to be verbose if you like.

What exactly is wrong with that statement?

What part of that statement do you find untrue?

Our mission in Iraq is teetering on the edge, and in case you don’t understand that statement, it has nothing to do with winning or losing.

Revenge is a meal best served cold.

Anything we do now in the heat of the moment will be contra-purpose to anything and everything we have accomplished in the last 3 years.

Where is the support from the Iraqis we have been promised by Mr. Cheney, you know, “the hearts and minds thing”, where the Iraqis deal with the terrorist insurgency, and we are advisers?

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 8:54 PM
Comment #160189

Brian Poole

Here is my stab at your questions:


Q: How do you define victory in Iraq?

A.When an Iraqi governmet is capable of governing on its own, and provide for its security.I think that within 12 months this will happen.


Q:Is it just when Bush says we’ve won?
A: No. The objective criteria above must be satisfied.

Q: What moment will tell us when we have won?
A: Probably a series of monents;continued roll-up of the insurgency;a movement toward a politicial solution;the re-emergence of an Iraqi economy. We’ll know.

Q:What are the goals for us still being there?
A. To assist the new government to achieve the above.It all fits together, doesn’t it?

Q:What concrete objectives are we trying to achieve, and how will we know when we’ve achieved them?
A:Asked and answered.See Above.


Womanmarine

They pretty much identify themselves. Genocide is foolish.. Elimination of the enemy isn’t.


Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 21, 2006 8:57 PM
Comment #160201

Don,
“If we would just send a very large group of libs to Iraq to talk with these peace-loving terrorists, we could get them to give up and join our enlightened society as productive and loving people.”

Now, that is just “kiss my a$$” funny!!! Ha! Ha! He! He!

Funny, yet (sooooo) true…

Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 9:14 PM
Comment #160234

“What exactly is wrong with that statement? What part of that statement do you find untrue?”


You proved my point, which is that you guys believe in the “we don’t want to be like the terrorists” way of thinking and that’s when (after I listed you posts) I responded with “
I’m so(ooo) glad you guys aren’t in charge; I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.”

All I did was use your (own) words to point out that, with that kind of leadership, ‘I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.’ Nuff said.

“Our mission in Iraq is teetering on the edge, and in case you don’t understand that statement, it has nothing to do with winning or losing.”

Yeah, that’s what happens in Wars, Rock; you’re always teetering on the edge. The same “teetering” happened in Revolutionary War, Civil War, and in WWII. And, in all three of those wars, wars in which we won (by the way), the victors “enacted revenge” and they certainly “reacted like animals”; yet, they didn’t “become like the enemy”. They diffused the enemy and that’s what’s going to happen to Al Qaeda and the jihadists all around the world (especially in Iraq). All this while “teethering”.


Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 10:00 PM
Comment #160242

rahdigly,

” And, in all three of those wars, wars in which we won (by the way), the victors “enacted revenge” and they certainly “reacted like animals”; yet, they didn’t “become like the enemy”. They diffused the enemy and that’s what’s going to happen to Al Qaeda and the jihadists all around the world (especially in Iraq). All this while “teethering”.”

Gosh, I guess civilization in the last 200 years hasn’t come as far as I thought.

I guess you will believe whatever you will, and facts don’t ever seem to get in the way.

Good luck, and good night.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 10:12 PM
Comment #160259

SE-
It won’t work. You won’t kill everybody, the survivors of the dead and those of the bombing will swear revenge, the world will be shocked by the brutality of our approach, and thousands of innocent people will be killed who never translated the dark message into dark action.

And that’s if our targeting doesn’t include too many moderate mosques, or mistakenly hits one based on bad or misread intelligence.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 21, 2006 10:58 PM
Comment #160275

Rock, before you go to bed (or wake up in the morning) are you going to dispute the “fact” about the “extreme” means used in those wars?! Or, are you going to continue to dodge the facts and just say that they are made up?


It’s really not that hard to admit the facts of those wars; seeing as how they are documented facts of history. Or, does history mess up your stance on “Bush’s War” in Iraq?!!


Oh yeah, and you still haven’t owned up (or even debated) your comment:

“BTW your accused guys have now been indited and charged with murder, larceny, kidnapping, and house breaking.
Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 04:07 PM “


What’s a matter, Rock, don’t you believe in our laws that “your presumed innocent until proven guilty”?!!!

Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 11:29 PM
Comment #160279

Intresting posts. First you say kill them all, kill them all now. Then you realize your rant is the raving of an amoral psycho-killer. So then you say kill the imams that say things I don’t like and I blame for these sick killers. Deep thoughts.

One of the kids killed there was form the Houston area and like any Human my first reaction is outrage. Policy is not knee-jerk reaction. When it is, it invariably is bad policy. Bush-Cheney took a knee-jerk reaction. Which has destabilized the middleeast worse than it was. They have allowed Al Qeada to avoid the assualt the CIA put on them by diverting the military resources to Iraq that would have put an end to Bin Laden. They have fed a Sunni insurgency by failing to listen to the generals in place in Iraq. They now are using the military as propoganda props for the upcoming election.

Insurgency will only be ended through a political and native military response. We are simply adding to the fuel and do not have enough troops to do more than put out fires. The is the problem that Murtha was talking about when you slurred him, and is what you continue to ignore with echos of right wing rants.

Do you feel better after this screed of anger? Now when are you going to advocate a solution rather than rant on about the same old crap? We already been sold the cost free, flower weilding iraqi story, we’re waiting for something besides Rumsfelds “new small force” solutions that don’t work. What happened to the sweep of Bagdhad solution? Oops, they still strike at will.

The only way we will know if this is another Diem regime. Is to hand them the reins and back out ready to reengage. Sadly it appears to be.

If we become what they are. If we become the Soviets or the Israelis in fit of slaughter, there will be no moderate Arabs left. Exactly what Bin Laden wants.

Posted by: gergle at June 21, 2006 11:34 PM
Comment #160280


S.E., Rahdigly and their friends know where the fault for this debacule lies but they have to defend them because to do otherwise would be disasterous to the neocon cause. Therefore, they continue the Rovian spin that the fault lies with the insurgents and the liberals who embolden them.

Why do you people never ask any of the tough questions?

For instance, I would love it if one of you would answer this question. Why has this 4 month old government cut it’s teeth by telling our president that they want us to set a timetable and get out of Iraq? I keep asking but never get an answer. Why is this administration ignoring the Iraq governments request?

Posted by: jlw at June 21, 2006 11:35 PM
Comment #160288

rahdigly,

In case you missed it;

“Sorry,

Eight other guys were indited today.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 04:33 PM”

Your response;

“Eight other guys were indited today.”


You seem giddy with that comment.”

Posted by: rahdigly at June 21, 2006 05:15 PM

My response;

“Giddy?

Please.

Just once I wish you would just read the words and not try to find some hidden meaning.

BTW, I did notice you omitted the “Sorry” from your point.”

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 05:45 PM


“Or, are you going to continue to dodge the facts and just say that they are made up?”

Nobody dodges the facts like you do pal.

Have a night.

BTW, see full circle.

Posted by: Rocky at June 21, 2006 11:43 PM
Comment #160298

Rock, the fact that I missed the “sorry” was not intentional and, in no way, excuses you for making the comment (to SE) that more of “our” troops (a.k.a. fellow Americans) were indicted. Just b/c they were indicted doesn’t mean they are guilty; hence the reason I brought up the fact (one that you continue to dodge) that, according to our laws, “you’re innocent until proven guilty”. You have yet to respond to that.

So, for the last time, will you go on record and state if you believe that our troops are “innocent until proven guilty”?!

Posted by: rahdigly at June 22, 2006 12:07 AM
Comment #160331

It seems clear that due to political concerns we are unable to respond in a maner suitable to the crime. Since the bad guys also know this I think its time to pack up and leave these savages to their own devices. Let them slaughter each other in the name of Allah. I was in favor of taking out Sadaam and his buddies but I’m done with baby sitting the Iraqi people. If it means that every 10 years we have to go back in and kick ass to knock out their latest WMD facilities I prefer that over this slow death we are dealing with now. Its late and I’m tired so maybe I’m just ranting due to my anger over the fate of these American GI’s. Thx for letting me vent.

Posted by: Carnak at June 22, 2006 1:38 AM
Comment #160368

rahdigly,

“So, for the last time, will you go on record and state if you believe that our troops are “innocent until proven guilty”?!”

Wow,

I guess you told me, right?

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, whether they are a citizen or not, and, according to our laws, should be treated that way.

Posted by: Rocky at June 22, 2006 5:19 AM
Comment #160377

Rich,

If the terrorists COULD destroy all of our troop bases in a single day, don’t you think they WOULD HAVE ALREADY??

If you bomb a mosque, not only terrorists but *all* muslims of iraq will attack US soldiers at sigh.

Don’t give them more credit than they deserve. I really hope you don’t honestly believe that they are “waiting for the right moment”….

I don’t. But after 3 years of occupation, Iraq is still not secure. I guess if 130,000 troops is not enough to secure Iraq, 130,000 troops will not be enough to resists millions of muslims attacking them after mosques being bombed.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 22, 2006 6:05 AM
Comment #160378

Ron Brown,

Have you seen any pictures of this ‘torture”? All I’ve seen pictures of is a little humiliation. Naked men stacked on in a pyramid is not torture. The rack, the water screen, beating, etc. are. Where are the pictures of that?

Rumshelf’s office (locked) drawer?
Remember, no all pictures were released to public.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 22, 2006 6:07 AM
Comment #160379

rahdigly,

I’m so(ooo) glad you guys aren’t in charge; I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.

I’m so(ooo) sad you couldn’t image what your country would be.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 22, 2006 6:16 AM
Comment #160403

Sicilianeagle,

“Everything that happens gets imputed the president, doesn’t it? Unbelievable.”

Were the three men killed soldiers? Is the president the Commander and Chief of the military?
Is Rumsfeld the Secretary of defense, which I assume, based on the 2 books I’ve read over my lifetime,is in charge of the military?
Is Cheney one of the key architects of this war?
When the purple fingers were being waved in front of the cameras you folks were ready to give all the credit for that to Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, why not this?
When the statue of Saddam fell, you were more than happy to give this administration credit, why not now?
Why do they get credit for a pilot thousands of miles away dropping 500 lb bombs on terrorist masterminds but not any of the many, many, many failures and screw-ups.
Mission accomplished, was all Bush.
These are the same folks who have spun this cluster-F**K of a war and convinced folks like you and the useless Democrats who went along with them to place these three gentlemen in Iraq in the first place.
These are the three morons who pushed out or ignored the commanders that were true leaders who would not have accepted Abu Grahib, Guantanamo, murdering of civilians and stranding three soldiers in the middle of Insurgent Central with no support.
I give credit where it’s due.
Nice try ignoring the point or at the very least belittling my point so that you could continue with your cry for revenge. You want a piece of the Iraqis’ asses so much go there and get some.
I too can talk tough from the safety of my office or home. Go get’em tough guy. Show them how the Sicilian Eagle would handle it.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at June 22, 2006 9:17 AM
Comment #160417

Andre Hernandez

Ummm….That’s the Mighty Sicilian Eagle….here…for the first time on Watchblog,my photo…

linktext

Now, let me answer some of your questions:

Q Were the three men soldiers?
A. They were members of the 101st Airborne.Yes

Q:Is the president CIC?
A:Yes

Q.Is Rummy SOD?
A: But of course.

Q:Is the VP asone of the key architects of the war?
A: One of many.

Q:Purple fingers ,then why not this:
A. Apples and oranges. They orchestrated a free election,for Pete’s sake. The killiings were barbaric acts.

Q:Happy tp give the administration credit then and now?
A: Certainly. They did a fine job, and are within 12 months or so of leaving behind a democracy born from nothing. Do you not see any significance geo-politically in that at all?

Q:Screw up:
A: Many. Many. Many. Arrogance too. However,that’s the way it is in war. It’s not a perfect science. It wasn’t the oil: Oraq exports,what 20 billion a year? Peanuts to us. It wasn’t Hallliburton either. They made 3 Billion WORLDWIDE last year. It was about building a nation based on democracy and getting rid of a tyrant.

The rest of your post is a rant and requires no answer.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 22, 2006 10:11 AM
Comment #160422

Sicilianeagle,
Thanks for recognizing a good rant when you hear one:)

Like I’ve said in the past, you are a real patriot but I feel like you’re wasting it on this group.
If you’re going to give them credit for the few positives, you have to give them and the commanders on the ground credit for stranding three soldiers in the most dangerous place on earth with no support.
If you were one of those three soldiers would you be pleased with those in charge of this war?
Would you be having dilusional thoughts about this fantasy Democracy 12 months down the road?
I doubt it.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at June 22, 2006 10:38 AM
Comment #160423

Rocky,
“Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, whether they are a citizen or not, and, according to our laws, should be treated that way.”


Excellent! Then you will be accountable for that statement (from now on) and you can’t make any comments about “our” troops until the trial is complete. Period!

Houdin,
“rahdigly: I’m so(ooo) glad you guys aren’t in charge; I couldn’t imagine what our country would be like.”

“Houdin: I’m so(ooo) sad you couldn’t image what your country would be.”


Yeah, Phillip, I’m am (certainly) glad I can’t imagine that either. Bigtime!

Posted by: rahdigly at June 22, 2006 10:47 AM
Comment #160431

Our fight against the savage murderers is not about revenge. We must defend ourselves from these murderers. Blowing up the cowardly murderers who spread their lies in mosques is the most effective way to stop them quickly. We must not respect those who advocate slowly sawing off peoples’ heads for their own sick pleasure. They are a disease. Who of you defend their behavior? If you do, then you also are sick in your support of terrorism. Do you hate the people of the United States so much that you expect us to lay down and die? Your claim that we brought about the behavior of the terrorists is false. The terrorism of those animals has gone on for centuries before the United States even existed. Do you support racism? You must, if you support the view that we infidels contaminate the holy ground of the Muslims just by being there. In the name of tolerance you are supporting the most intolerant people on the planet. The political correct police (you) aren’t far behind them in YOUR intolerance of Christianity. Do you think that Christians should just die because we are for peace and love? You say we should love the terrorists and I agree, but we also must love the people those murderers will kill horribly if we don’t stop them. Do you want to be a slave of the Muslims? You certainly act like you do. As you turn your back on God don’t be surprised when you receive the consequences of your deliberate self delusion. You will certainly be quick to judge me by a standard you couldn’t possibly stand up to yourself. Stop and think, because you will be judged with the same measure of fairness you apply as you judge others.

Posted by: Sreve at June 22, 2006 11:29 AM
Comment #160439

Andre

I feel likewise about you. but not one word about my photo. Geez. I primped all day for that one too.

Obvoiusly someone screwed up by leaving those 3 soldiers in such a dangerous place. I am sure an investigation is taking place, and I also am sure that special ops personell are getting retribution too.

But I do feel that in 12 months this war will be over for all intents and pirposes. Put it this way, it won’t dominate the ‘08 elections, I think

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 22, 2006 11:47 AM
Comment #160452

Sicilianeagle,

I hope you’re correct.
I really do.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at June 22, 2006 12:45 PM
Comment #160464

Sreve,

As you turn your back on God don’t be surprised when you receive the consequences of your deliberate self delusion.

As I’d never turn to God, I never turn my back to God too. But, whatever, it’s long time ago already and so far, no divine consequences.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 22, 2006 1:10 PM
Comment #160490

Morally superiour…What’s this better crap. These people are from a civilisation that is far older than ours…They were enjoying their age of enlightenment before we even existed. How easily we feel the right to judge. Never mind, how we interfered and manipulated their politics and unabashedly supported their butchers in the name of national security: Oil and the big red threat. After all, they just woke up one morning and decided to hate America.

Soooo, who determines which is a radical mosque, or are all mosques radical? That’s why Abu Ghraib was such a mess. Depending upon villagers to say who was a terrorist. In actuality, they were also settling age old vendettas, so innocents were also locked up and tortured.

Sounds like many don’t care about killing innocent women (pregnant or not) and children that get caught in the crossfire, or that are wrongly designated as insurgents. Just a casualty of war. That’ll really win the hearts and minds of the neighbourhood for a century. That way, we can enjoy the same praise as enjoyed by the Knights Templar.

Sounds like many bought the raison d etre for war, and now that Saddam is gone … Why is American blood still being spilled and why aren’t they greeting our presence with daisies. You forget Movietone , it was the French , Belge , Italian, .. women that lined the streets and greeted the GI with flowers and favours …. Not die frauen.

Know and learn your opponent, then you will find a way to overcome him. Think yourself superiour , in every way….Read history. But I know, you are on God’s side, so moral superiourity will win the day.

Posted by: Eisai at June 22, 2006 2:14 PM
Comment #160564

Eisai,

Do you really not know the difference between the slow sawing off of a head and the treatment of a few prisoners by guards who are being punished?

Do you support the behavior of the “insurgents”?

As you can see, when our side does something wrong we work to fix it. There are many law biding Iraqis also working to end the atrocities of the “insurgents”. Do you think American soldiers as a group are terrorists? Some are on trial for misdeeds, and they will be punished if they are found guilty. It sounds like you have already convicted them. You say there are “many” who don’t care about killing innocent pregnant women. Can you cite even a few examples? Are you an American? Do you really think Iraq qill be better off if we let the murderers win?

Posted by: Steve at June 22, 2006 4:26 PM
Comment #160629

rahdigly,

“Excellent! Then you will be accountable for that statement (from now on) and you can’t make any comments about “our” troops until the trial is complete. Period!”

So if I don’t live by your rules what do I get?

Geez, do us a favor and get over yourself.

Posted by: Rocky at June 22, 2006 6:29 PM
Comment #160683

It’s not about me, Rock, it’s about sticking to our statements. If you (truly) believe that “everyone” is innocent until proven guitly, then the “accusations” of these soldiers will not mean that they are guilty. If you believe terrorists should be given rights, then (certainly) our marines, the ones who actually defend our rights (voluntarily!), certainly deserve the same rights (if not more). That’s the point I was making on that issue.


If you don’t live by you words, then you loose credence; to some, that’s equivalent to respect.

Posted by: rahdigly at June 22, 2006 8:03 PM
Comment #160694

ragdigly,

EVERY human being has rights.

Good or bad, it is what we have achieved as a result of civilization.

“If you believe terrorists should be given rights,”

I cannot give the “terrorists” rights, because those rights already exist, as they are most certainly human beings, despite all attempts to make them less than that.

I never said I agree with their agenda.

I only recognize they have rights.

Posted by: Rocky at June 22, 2006 8:30 PM
Comment #164185

I have lived in Iraq and Kurdistan more than 20 years and never encountered ‘murderous bastards’. I think that because their country was ‘liberated’ a few years back they must already have learned the brave behavior of the occupiers. As you should know the pastime of the occupiers is to torture and sodomise their prisoners. The brave occupiers like to murder women and children too. At last count around 100000 Iraqis have been killed by daring pilots using remote controlled bombs.

Wonder what the Texans would do if they were liberated by the Mexicans.

Posted by: Gustaf Wallen at July 2, 2006 11:42 AM
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