Canada Coughs

The arrest of Muslim terrorists in Canada doesn’t surprise me. Anyone could have seen this coming. The response from many Canadians doesn’t surprise me either: rethinking lax immigration laws, challenging multiculturalism, and figuratively raising a wall between the Muslim community and the rest.

Canada is emulating what European nations have already gone through after the riots across France, train bombings in Spain, subway bombings in United Kingdom, death of Theo Van Gogh, the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy.

In Europe:

The repercussion is clear: fear of Muslims, fear of all things Islamic, the occasional "counterattack" in this clash of civilizations on a mosque, institution of citizenship tests for immigrants, and cultural assimilation mandated.

Now Canada follows the path:

Canada is now reflecting on reality by debating multiculturalism, spitting on political correctness, and considering different immigration policies. It's about time too. This should be the real debate in the West, not tax policy, not economic policy, not energy policy, not education policy, but immigration policy. Western countries need to clean up the mess made when they did not require immigrants to assimilate. As Daniel Pipes just said the "immigration of non-Western peoples, I predict, will become an all-consuming issue in every Western country."

Posted by Mike Tate at June 13, 2006 11:17 PM
Comments
Comment #157463

Aw hell nah

Posted by: Will Smith at June 13, 2006 11:23 PM
Comment #157465

Assimilation for some will require de-programming.
De-programming would actually solve other social problems we have in the west…another subject.

Posted by: dawn at June 13, 2006 11:31 PM
Comment #157470

I really don’t see why we can’t hold all Muslims inside Internment Camps for the duration of the War on Terror. The Supreme Court has already ruled it as legal.

We should lock them up.

Posted by: Aldous at June 13, 2006 11:50 PM
Comment #157472

Aldous,

Has anyone ever told you how amazing you are?

:)

Posted by: dawn at June 13, 2006 11:56 PM
Comment #157477

Dawn:

Yup. My reflection in the mirror told me that each morning.

Seriously, the rise of anti-Muslim feelings in Europe and Canada are just one aspect of a bigger trend. EVERYBODY is being targeted. All the minorities. Africans, Blacks, Asians regardless of religion are suffering greater racism.

The most dangerous is Russia with Germany a distant second. Being Black in Russia WILL get you killed by the numerous gangs. The police will not help. In Germany, the Neo-Nazis have the German Police on high alert during the World Cup.

So its not being a Muslim that’s bad, its being a minority.

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 12:08 AM
Comment #157478

…and most of those places you speak of talk about how bad the U.S. is.

Funny how it keeps the heat off the rest of the world for U.S. to be the only superpower that has to be brought down.

Wonder how many blogs there are similar to this one in other nations…

Posted by: dawn at June 14, 2006 12:12 AM
Comment #157479

Dawn:

I should point out that only the US is holding itself as morally superior to everyone else. Its hard not to be annoyed when Bush espouses “Human Rights” in Russia on one hand and have Russian Muslims being held indefinitely in Gitmo on the other.

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 12:26 AM
Comment #157484

We can stop allowing non-white, non-Christian and non-English speaking people from immigrating into the United States. Then we can force those immigrants that don’t fit this profile and already here into wearing stars, so we can easily identify them. And hey, then we can start referring to ourselves as the master race. Hmm, seems like I heard that idea somewhere else before?

Posted by: Cube at June 14, 2006 1:04 AM
Comment #157486

Isn’t it nice that you have such a tolerant white majority. Do you think a muslim majority would let such things as blogs exist or be conditioned to consider a race card drawn by minorities whenever they don’t get a handout from the government.The Balloon is soon to go up and the question asked will be “Are you an American, and for Canada are you a Canadian” There will be no gray area tolerated. Either your one of us or the enemy. So decide soon minorities and legal immigrants become one with the nations you live.

Posted by: Kevin at June 14, 2006 1:23 AM
Comment #157487
Either you are one of us or the enemy.

I think Kevin has just declared war on the rest of the world.

Posted by: Cube at June 14, 2006 1:48 AM
Comment #157488

Aldous,

I have to say that you are probably the most predictable blogger on this sight. It does not matter what the post is your vitriol and venom come through loud and clear.

If somebody here posted what saints Hillary, Nancy, Howard, John or Al were, we could count on you to post something contrary.

Posted by: Keith at June 14, 2006 1:49 AM
Comment #157499

Mike,

Canada is emulating what European nations have already gone through after the riots across France, train bombings in Spain, subway bombings in United Kingdom, death of Theo Van Gogh, the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy.

Your parallel between last november “riots” in France with islamism radicalists & terrorists show how much you’re putting every muslim in the same pot than terrorists.
Let’s hope not everybody will confuse your fearfull/hatefull opinion on muslims with the average republican one.
I’ll try my best guys, I promise, but it’s getting hard these days…

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 14, 2006 4:20 AM
Comment #157500
I think Kevin has just declared war on the rest of the world.

Cube, Kevin alas is not the first one to say “it’s us or them”. I guess someone else has declared war on the rest major part of the world a little bit earlier, but so far don’t understand what he’s doing.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 14, 2006 4:27 AM
Comment #157502

Keith:

Its called “Balance”. Its what I do when somebody posts a ridiculously one-sided article and ignores the elephant in the room.

That is something common in most Red Column Articles, I’m afraid.

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 5:11 AM
Comment #157508

Aldous-who-cries-wolf,

Famous Republican Abraham Lincoln said, “It is better for others to think you may be a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

You again (and again, and again) make unfounded accusations out of ignorance… hoping others’ are ignorant enough to swallow bluffs & bluster as fact.

The most dangerous is Russia with Germany a distant second. Being Black in Russia WILL get you killed by the numerous gangs. The police will not help.

Spend much time in Russia lately?? Know much about the country?? The answer is an obvious “NO!” Blacks there are walking the streets in numbers and doing fine, incl from my first hand observations – becoming millionaires by opening small hotels, import/export, etc. Also, Mosques, Synagogues and Churches all are being rebuilt there since Communism died. Gangs in Russia are dangerous, but dangerous to all AND overall not as dangerous as American gangs, Iranian gangs, Iraqi gangs, amongst others.

In Germany, the Neo-Nazis have the German Police on high alert during the World Cup.
Oh, you are right. The problem is 100% Nazis, and 0% Terrorists, Prostitution, Soccer Hooligans, and all other crime.
EVERYBODY is being targeted. All the minorities. Africans, Blacks, Asians regardless of religion are suffering greater racism.

Has anyone ever seen Aldous (and many others) target any race other than Whites for bashing / hatred or unfair accusations? Isn’t this the most extreme Racism that is exhibited at this blog?

Seems blogs cannot deny closed minds and Racists, but I wonder if their importance should be lessened, and if there any good ways to marginalize Bigots (those whose views are not changed by logic/reason) in these blogs and in society in general?

Posted by: Brian at June 14, 2006 6:48 AM
Comment #157510

Brian:

I have serious doubts Abraham Lincoln would recognize the GOP today.

In any case, my sources come from Russians and German citizens themselves. As well as Human Rights Watch and other Watchdog Groups.

Do you live in Russia, Brian? Are you a minority? Why don’t you dress like one and find out after dark?

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 7:19 AM
Comment #157521

Aldous,

“Do you live in Russia, Brian? Are you a minority? Why don’t you dress like one and find out after dark?”

This just might be the dumbest and most racist statement you have made yet. How can you justify marginalizing the importance of DIVERSITY by telling him to dress like a minority. Who is racially profiling now. For that matter, your so called “Minority Friendly Democrat” is absolutely the worst kind of racist becaust they are the ones who are first to try and erase the lines that define us. Im sorry, I just dont buy this way of thinking, “you are the same as me and I accept you.” They arent the same as me because they are different and I really accept them because I see their differences; I dont do what Democrats do and tollerate them. Back to the issue at hand, do you live in Russia Aldous? Are you a Minority? Do you have first hand experience with being attacked in Russia for being any number of minotires? No? Then why dont you come off your soap-box and join us in the real world where facts and statistics are what matter, not hear-say from some left wing illegal immigrant friends of yours.

Posted by: Alex at June 14, 2006 8:12 AM
Comment #157524
Has anyone ever seen Aldous (and many others) target any race other than Whites for bashing / hatred or unfair accusations? Isn’t this the most extreme Racism that is exhibited at this blog?

Unfortunatly, no. We’ve seen far worst racism on this blog.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 14, 2006 8:19 AM
Comment #157530

“I should point out that only the US is holding itself as morally superior to everyone else. Its hard not to be annoyed when Bush espouses “Human Rights” in Russia on one hand and have Russian Muslims being held indefinitely in Gitmo on the other.”

1) WE hold ourselves morally superior to everyone else??? Why do you say that? Because we are always the first (and, by far, the largest) responders to foreign emergencies (both $ and persons)? Because we shoulder >75% of the financial burden of the “United Nations” - all of the while, we try to follow the diplomacy while being back-stabbed by “allies” with covert agendas? Because stand up and take action after years - perhaps a decade or more - of failed diplomacy?

I always hear Liberals proclaim that they are “progressive”, “tolerant”, “for the little guy”, “color blind”, etc. Pot calling the kettle??

Who said:
“The only time Republicans can get this many blacks in a room is if the wait staff enters the room”? How many top level blacks, hispanics, women, etc. have Dem administrations had? We’ve had more in the past 5 years than all 8 of Clinton’s.

“You are the people (addressing the hispanic groups last month) who feed us, clean up after us, take care of us, pick our vegatables, mow our lawns….”? Is that all you think they are good for, Mrs Clinton? Not me.

Simple fact….Southern Democrats FILIBUSTERED the Civil Rights bill for over 5 years. Yes, it would’ve been PASSED in ‘57, if it were not for the likes of Byrd and Thurmon.

BTW, before you start about Thurmon being a republican….He started as a democrat - elected as governor in SC as a dem. Opposed CRA as a dem senator from SC. In the mid-to-late 60’s, he changed his position on Civil Rights. After being shunned by the dems of the time, he switched to a republican. Perhaps, not the truest of conservatives, but at least he realized the “error of his past”. The political info is courtesy of the CNN.com report on his death, if you wonder.

2) I do not believe the US went into Russia, kidnapped innocent Muslims and spirited them away to Gitmo. Why would we? To make it look like we were “rounding up a herd” of “terrorists”?? All enemy combatants in Gitmo were detained in either Afghanistan or Iraq. They were captured fighting against allied troops while those allied troops were engaging groups of individuals or locations that were known to be terrorist and/or Taliban sites. There was no need to go all of the way to Russia to find a few hundred Muslim extremeist terrorists when they grew like weeds in Afghanistan prior to 2002.

Posted by: Rich at June 14, 2006 8:34 AM
Comment #157532

Racism is being defined too broadly. Racism should be defined as judging by race first. Simple. If a white man and a black man behave in the same way and you react differently to them BECAUSE of race, it is a racist act.

But now it has been reversed. We are asked to excuse behavior because of race. If you commit a crime, it should not matter what your race is or what that of the victim is. Murder is murder etc. Let’s go back to the proper thing and judge people by what they do, not by the color of their skins.

Aldous

Try openly practicing Christianity in Saudi Arabia or China. Or let me put it this way, if who do you think would be safer, a man who walked down a busy street in London, Paris, Washington or Berlin with a sign (in the local language) saying “I am a proud Muslim - get used to it” or the same man who walked down a busy street in the Muslim world with a sign saying “I am a proud Christian (or American etc) – get used to it.”

It is clear that the most tolerant cultures are those you constantly attack. You know it. We all know it. We know you know it and you know we know. And we all say so with our actions, if not our rhetoric.

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 8:43 AM
Comment #157533

This is what you DON’T do.
You may find it a refreshing break from political correctness, but in reality it’s the kind of isolating that al-Qaeda loves to see us do. Why do you think that the terrorist cell that hit us is called The Hamburg Cell? It’s not because the Arab Community has a tight relationship with the Germans. Far from it. Europe has long kept its Muslim minorities separate, rather than doing more to welcome them into the fold. They are to the Europeans what Mexicans are to us: cheap labor that we’d otherwise not want to acknowledge. Germany even has a guestworker (or Gastarbeiter) program involving them, which has done well to create a Turkish and Muslim underclass.

In the end, it is their mistakes we are emulate when we react against Multiculturalism the way Mike Tate wants us to. The problem isn’t too much entanglement with these people, it’s not enough. It’s relationships between different people that break the ice, that normalize day to day life with folks. It’s what turns people away from the thought of killing those people who aren’t part of their group

We can’t terrorism by fear and hatred, because terror at its heart is about creating and expressing such things. We defeat it with equality and tolerance, because then far fewer people are caught in that inferiority complex that demands domination of and retribution towards other people.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 14, 2006 8:44 AM
Comment #157538

Alex:

Gee… I did not know Human Rights Watch was devoid from reality.


Rich:

Some Gitmo detainees were brought from Pakistan, FYI. The Dixie Democrats you refer to were thrown out of the Democratic Party and joined thier soulmates in the GOP.


Jack:

Starting to spew Rumsfeld gibberish, eh? Poor guy. Suadi Arabia and China never claimed to be morally superior countries. The West does.


btw… You guys should start watching some Football sometimes. When the audience starts calling the Black African Players “Monkeys”, its not a term of endearment.

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 9:03 AM
Comment #157540

Guys,

We gotta get this straight: it doesn’t matter what color you are or what culture you are from… if you assimilate you’re just as genuine as the next guy who has. I’m not advocating that we bar non-whites from immigrating here and only allow WASPs in… because I’m not even that myself.

Posted by: Mike Tate at June 14, 2006 9:19 AM
Comment #157545

Mike Tate:

I thought we were discussing Muslims in Canada and Europe?

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 9:34 AM
Comment #157564

Aldous

Actually we hear all the time that many Muslims think they are morally superior to the west. But you are saying that the west actually behaves better, but should not over estimate itself?

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 10:37 AM
Comment #157565
The response from many Canadians doesn’t surprise me either: rethinking lax immigration laws, challenging multiculturalism, and figuratively raising a wall between the Muslim community and the rest… Posted by Mike Tate at June 13, 2006 11:17 PM
Yup, the predictable fear and hate of an increasingly vocal so-called conservative minority is no surprise. No matter where the country.
it doesn’t matter what color you are or what culture you are from… if you assimilate you’re just as genuine as the next guy who has…Posted by Mike Tate at June 14, 2006 09:19 AM
I don’t get this quote. Does this mean you don’t want any diversity in a culture? And what is your definition of “genuine”? Ann Cunter for example thinks I’m an unAmerican traitor for being a social liberal. Posted by: Dave at June 14, 2006 10:37 AM
Comment #157566
1) WE hold ourselves morally superior to everyone else??? Why do you say that? Because we are always the first (and, by far, the largest) responders to foreign emergencies (both $ and persons)? Because we shoulder >75% of the financial burden of the “United Nations” - all of the while, we try to follow the diplomacy while being back-stabbed by “allies” with covert agendas? Because stand up and take action after years - perhaps a decade or more - of failed diplomacy?

Thanks Rich for holding yourself morally superior than everyone else. That prove Aldous point.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 14, 2006 10:41 AM
Comment #157569

Jack,

“Conservative isolationists” tend to think of themselves as superior to “others”. “Liberal multiculturalists” tend to recognize that almost everyone has something to offer.

for example: Religiously fanatical Islamists tend to kill alot more today than their Evangelical Christian fanatics; but, both hate gays. What an add-in to todays morality that would be. Well, maybe if we look hard enough there would be a good example.

Posted by: Dave at June 14, 2006 10:46 AM
Comment #157578

Why doesnt everyone stop and realize that we should feel morally superior to everyone else in the world because we do more humanitarian work in one year than any other country could possibly do in a decade. That gives us the right to look at a culture like the Islamic Etremist’s and look down on them. And honestly, all you liberals who dont feel proud to be an American, LEAVE. You think all those other countries have it better? Then why not go there to live. You think they have higher morals and better leadership, then go ahead and go. Those of us who realize that Americans have died over the centuries to garantee what we have also realize that we have to continue to fight for it. Im sorry, but if killing some radical islamists actually garantees that my country is the greatest one in the world, then I say “good job” to our government.

Aldous, learn how to spell and yes, Human Rights Watch is devoid of reality when it would go so far as to say a country (namely, America) should sacrifice its own well being to help countries and continents that we had no part in harming. And yet, America gets no credit for the job we do. Instead we have dumb liberals who attack some of the most honorable fighting men in the history of the world at the mere rumor that they did something wrong. You know what, you love the rest of the world so much, do us a favor and go live with them. Then, in a hundred years when America is still the only super power and you are busy paying 40% of your income to healthcare and being bombed by terrorists, America will look as good as it should look to you now. This country we live in is paradise compared to the rest of the world. And Aldous, why is it you only answer with quippy little phrases and jokes instead of answering every question posed to you, is it because you cant? Maybe? And for everyones information, I lived in London, England and visited most of Europe over the span of 5 years and I can tell you I know what it feels like to be discriminated against because I am white and male. And do I complain? Do I make broad sweeping generalizations about the people who discriminated against me? Do I blame other countries for not helping make the country I happend to be in a better place, free of racism? NO! I accept that there are stupid people in the rest of the world like there are stupid people in the US. So why is it people are so quick to blame the US for all the racial problems in the world, and the tyranny that results? Aldous, care to answer to everything I have said, not just tip toe around the issues that scare you? Show me you arent like every other liberal on this site.

Posted by: Alex at June 14, 2006 11:12 AM
Comment #157585

The reason that most Christian Right Wingers do not commit terrorist acts should be plain to see: much as they oppose those Secular Humanists and “lukewarm” believers, these are their neighbors and friends. Most importantly, there is no official sanction for making one group subject to another. Last, but not least, tensions between ethnic groups with different religious affiliations were settled over time with a simple, even-handed prohibition against discrimination. Social forces were left to do the rest.

European nations, unfortunately, have been more inclined to try and protect their linguistic and cultural identities, demanding assimilation rather than letting society encourage it, demanding the relinquishing of ethnic identity, rather than letting society absorb and moderate that identity.

Choice is the key. America is identity chosen, not identity mandated. It is not the authority above that binds America together, but the mutual respect, tolerance, and friendship below.

This is a nation where religions do not try and seize the government from each other by force. Why would they need to? Even if followers of one religion triumph in the elections, they have no constitutional power to impose their religion, and make it necessary for those who really believe to fight back, forming a separatist or revolutionary group. This is a nation where power is willingly shared among the races and former nationalities. By embracing a multicultural system, we save ourselves from being so tyrannical to one group that we give them good cause to rebel against the government and the peace.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 14, 2006 11:28 AM
Comment #157589

Alex,

And for everyones information, I lived in London, England and visited most of Europe over the span of 5 years and I can tell you I know what it feels like to be discriminated against because I am white and male.

Yes, it’s well known that white males are the most discriminated population in Europe.
Not.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 14, 2006 11:35 AM
Comment #157591
Why doesnt everyone stop and realize that we should feel morally superior to everyone else in the world because we do more humanitarian work in one year than any other country could possibly do in a decade. Posted by: Alex at June 14, 2006 11:12 AM
Do you mean like after the tsunami in 12/04?


Stephen;
Unfortunately, current events suggest that you should have written most of your June 14, 2006 11:28 AM post in the past tense. As for “willingly share”, what about the civil rights movement and riots?


Posted by: Dave at June 14, 2006 11:39 AM
Comment #157598

Mike,
Mere fear mongering. These Canadian Muslims have been under observation since 2002. They kept talking and talking without ever actually doing anything, so the Canadian government ran a sting, and sold them 3 tons of fertilizer. They could have sold them 2 tons, or 1 ton, or a couple bags. It does not matter, since the intent remained the same, an intent to bomb Canadian (not American) targets. The point is that terrorism is, relatively speaking, an incidental concern, whether it is for the Canadians or for the US.

If this is what the War on Terror amounts to for Canada, one bust after 4 years of observation, and even then only when the cell was goaded into action, then the War on Terror must be considered over.

Time to move on. Remember how, under Clinton & Bush #41, the US intervened to help Muslims who were being oppressed?

Today, the Bush administration trades in the currency of fear. It is part of the fundamental nature of conservatism.

Posted by: phx8 at June 14, 2006 11:59 AM
Comment #157623

Alex,

“Then, in a hundred years when America is still the only super power and you are busy paying 40% of your income to healthcare and being bombed by terrorists
America will look as good as it should look to you now. “

You must have been in Europe during 9-11.

SD,

“The reason that most Christian Right Wingers do not commit terrorist acts…”

You might want to explain that to those who lost loved ones in Oklahoma.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 12:58 PM
Comment #157628

phx8,

“The point is that terrorism is, relatively speaking, an incidental concern, whether it is for the Canadians or for the US.”

Great point. It is ironic that after Canada, the train bombing in spain, the theater attack in Russia, and what happend months ago in England that we haven’t heard the REPUBLICAN spewage of “We are fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here.”

Where did that phrase go? It was idiotic for it to be said in the first place, but hearing it from our President was embarassing.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 1:07 PM
Comment #157642

Vincent,
It was always a stupid phrase, fighting them their instead of here. Since Al Qaida ceased to exist as an effective operation, terrorist attacks have been home grown affairs, spurred by resentment of US invasions & occupations of two Islamic capitals. The Canadian cell objected to Afghanistan in particular, where Canadian troops have played a prominent role.

But the Bush administration can hardly admit their actions have increased terrorism, can they?

Posted by: phx8 at June 14, 2006 1:44 PM
Comment #157647

So, assimilation is racist? What about the idea that multi-culturalism is suicide? For any nation to survive there must exist a framework for the protection of it’s citizens, as is our or Canadian constitutions. There must exist within that framework a commonality, a shared piece of the pie.
What does militant islam have in common with any nation on earth? The nation that holds SHARIA as its framework has already decided, already judged, already condemned any and all dissenters. No freedom, just blind service to the Imams, to the Quran, to ALLAH.
And to question the motives, those beliefs or desires of individuals bent on ignoring the framework of our constitution, who live within our society and abuse it’s liberties to affect JIHAD, planning the end of those liberties is racist? Their schemes are at best anarchy, in reality terrorism. Because they are muslim, we cannot question why they ignore assimilation, we must embrace multi-culturalism even when the path leads to the destruction of liberty? If multi-culturalism is the end all and be all of the new NIRVANA, where do we go from here? Those on the left who abhor prayer in school are in for a shock when the madrassas start taking over public education. Those on the left who demand gay/lesbian “rights” will be dismayed at the jailing or execution of said group. Those on the left will be astonished at the mandated dress, compulsory taxes due to cultural differences and legalized spousal abuses. Those on the left will wonder what happened to FEMINISM, why women no longer work outide the home, teach, go to school or speak to anyone outside the family unless a familial male is present
No, multi-culturalism isn’t NIRVANA, it’s national suicide. When the decision is made to allow the group demands to override the singular freedom of a nations traditional commonality, you will live under the auspices of that group whose plans are implemented by kneeling at the alter of DIVERSITY, and enforced by the point of a spear. Goodbye freedom!

Posted by: JR at June 14, 2006 1:52 PM
Comment #157649

phx8,

“But the Bush administration can hardly admit their actions have increased terrorism, can they?”

Actually they did. But nobody caught it. Here is a quote from Bush after that thug Zarquawi was bombed last week….

” Through his every action, he sought to defeat America and our coalition partners and turn Iraq into a safe haven from which Al Qaeda could wage its war on free nations “

Turn Iraq into a safe haven? I thought it already was a safe haven and that is one of the reasons we invaded it. Is he saying that Iraq was NOT a safe haven for terrorist until we invaded?

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 1:55 PM
Comment #157651

I think MT’s commentaryis right on target. As for my own thoughts I can observe how countries are ruled today where there are Islamic majorities and it is not what I want for the west. Where they are becoming large minorities their true colors are showing and it’s pretty clear that Muslim control is their objective, not assimilation. I would personally like to see immigration from Muslim countries into the US cut off. They hate our culture so why come? Let them go to China or Russia for their education and to make a better life for themselves.

Posted by: Carnak at June 14, 2006 1:56 PM
Comment #157653

Carnak,

“pretty clear that Muslim control is their objective, not assimilation.”

Kinda like the Republican party today.

Examples:

Marrige Amendment

Terri Shivo

Stem Cell Research

10 Commandments being displayed

Christian Churches getting the bulk of Federal money (especially ones who register voters)

Need I go on?

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 2:05 PM
Comment #157661

One of the major problems we have in our country and in Muslim countries is ideology.

Conservatives and individuals in Muslim countries like to be “Traditional.” They want things like they used to be. Hence, traditional. I don’t know if that means going back to separate schooling along with black and white drinking fountains, or not. Progressives see the world as it has evolved through millions of years. Ironic, because many conservatives don’t believe in evolution and think that the earth is 5000 years old.

Progressives understand that things change, and embrace the fact that they do. Conservatives still think being gay is a choice. It is a fight. A fight for ideology.

One side is grasping for what used to be, while the other side is preparing for what is to come.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 2:17 PM
Comment #157666

Vincent,

Your comparison of the Christian right in the US to Islamic control is interesting. I’m curious, if you had to choose between living in a country dominated by right wing Christians or one dominated by radical Islam which would you choose?

Posted by: Carnak at June 14, 2006 2:25 PM
Comment #157671

I live in the United States. You tell me.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 2:37 PM
Comment #157672

Carnak,

Nice choice. At least the Islamofascists are pretty clear on their requirements and I’d get 4 subservient wives out of the deal.

Posted by: Dave at June 14, 2006 2:37 PM
Comment #157690

Kevin,

I agree with what you said, and it takes courage to step past the pc statements and say what needs to be said.

Stop the “African-American” & “Arab-American” dialogue, all it does in segregate our population and creates divides.

Your either an American or your Not. Id like to know who is on Team America.

Posted by: MacIrish at June 14, 2006 3:37 PM
Comment #157693

Vincent

The Oklahoma bombing had nothing to particularly to do with Christianity, other than the fact that the perpetrators grew up in a Christian country and had the normal upbringing in such a culture. They never claimed they did it for religion. McVeigh’s last public act was to distribute a poem “Invictus”: “I thank whatever gods may be/ for my unconquerable soul, and ends” Doesn’t sound Christian, does it?

Christianity was incidental to the crime. The reason we call some terrorists Islamic terrorists is because they openly and clearly claim to be just that. We DO NOT do it when the link is incidental. For example we do not call John Mohammed an Islamic terrorist because his religion is incidental to his crime. We do not call Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacey “gay murderers” because it is incidental to the crime.

If we are consistent about these things, Christianity played no particular role in this one either.

To various posters

Why is it so imporant to you to prove how bad the U.S. is? In general, we are a very generous and open country. We are not the only one or the best at everything, but overall very good.

Most posters are Americans who live in the U.S. The way some talk they are living in abject poverty as they hide from the storm troopers. Yet they have the leisure to write and they don’t fear to do it and they seem to own computers with Internet connections. I have seen poverty and met people who have been in concentration camps. It is not you. And it is either insulting or commical (depending on your mood) to hear spoiled boys and girls pretend they got it really hard.

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 3:42 PM
Comment #157694

Jack,

Why is it so imporant to you to prove how bad the U.S. is?

It’s not for me, so I dunno.
But why is it so important for some to prove how the best the US is? Confidence issue or plain arrogance?

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 14, 2006 3:58 PM
Comment #157697

Jack,
You have met people who have been in concentration camps? You mean Gitmo?

Posted by: phx8 at June 14, 2006 4:01 PM
Comment #157700

It perplexes me how people can be hyper critical of “right wing Christianity” while at the same time defend the growing Mulsim influence on society. The attacks on Christian right always seems to boil down to the fact that you feel they are trying to tell you what you can and can’t do with your life. In a Muslim culture this issue would be magnified 10 fold and yet you defend this encrochment of Islamic culture on the west while blasting any Christian influence on our culture. What am I missing?

Posted by: Carnak at June 14, 2006 4:16 PM
Comment #157715

phx8,

Who do you think is in Gitmo??

Let me give you some news, they are people that would very much like to see you dead and hold a deep ceded hate for all things american.

and No there not democrats..LOL

Posted by: MacIrish at June 14, 2006 4:41 PM
Comment #157718

Phillipe

My experience is that non-Americans, even when they do not support American policies, are much more reasonable than my fellow Americans, who seem vexed by a kind of self-hatred.

I have always found your comments very helpful and thoughtful. Criticism is good. What I see too often from some of my compatriots is just a type of self directed biotry.

Phx8

No, I mean real concentration camps, where millions die and everyone starves. I saw places where people were hung just low enough that they could stand on their toes in a futile attempt to stay alive. I saw a little pond that contained the ashes of hundreds of thousands of people. I could go on, but you clearly do not understand. I truly feel insulted by the comparision and I only forgive you because you don’t know any better.

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 4:44 PM
Comment #157725

Are the human beings imprisoned at the Gitmo concentration camp enemies? Fine. Give them a trial, a military trial, and let us resolve the situation.

When Jack mentioned concentration camps, he probably meant to refer to the German camps. I have known people who were in those camps, too. One was a Jew. He cried when he talked about it. Another was a teacher, a Lithuanian. He was a spy, and he was treated pretty bad.

I also knew a member of the Hitler Youth. We asked him how on earth he could participate in something so evil. He replied that it was quite natural, the thing to do, and if we had been in his position, we would have done the same as him. No way, we said. Oh really? Americans are no different from Germans. We denied, but he insisted, it could most certainly happen here.

How many times have you looked at the insignia of the cross on the side of a Panzer, or the wing of a Stuka? The symbol of Christianity is stamped on every German military machine.

So yeah, I am nervous about this Bush administration, and the path we are walking. Perhaps you trust Bush. But what about the next administration? And the one after that?

We are comfortable with xenophobia and nativism, and we aggressively demand others buy into our fears. We want to build walls: walls in Israel, walls on the Mexican border, something in us loves a wall.

We freely condemn Muslims, but most of us do not even recognize the crosses on the sides of the German military machines.

Posted by: phx8 at June 14, 2006 4:54 PM
Comment #157727

Carnak,
“What am I missing?”

You are missing my point. I think all religions dictate what you can and can’t do. I also think it is caveman mentality.

It is great if you believe in something and make it positive toward society. That rarely happens. Instead people like me see weirdos protesting out in front of Terri Shivo’s hospice, other freaks like James Dobson who think it is ok to burn down abortion clinics and a significant part of our populuation that still think being gay is a choice.

All of these things hurt society. Instead of growing, we have a bunch of people who would rather live in the past. A past that was written 2000 years ago. Sorry, but that is just my opinion.

Jack,

Great point on the Washington DC sniper. Although I think Timothy McVeigh’s situtation was different, I have not read anything where he said he did it in the name of Christianity.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 4:59 PM
Comment #157736

Vincent

So I don’t get it wrong, you’re in fear for your life because:

Marriage amendment = What? Your life will be so much better if gays can marry? I thought all these “Christian” ideals were anathema to those of you on the left, why the sudden need to be like those you so despise? Huh?
Terri Shiavo = What? The thought of actually defending human life instead of ending it doesn’t jibe with the “PARTY OF DEATH”?
Stem cell research = What? Are you aware that many studies show better results with adult stem cell therapy? I know, this interferes with the whole pro-abortion, (read PARTY OF DEATH), demographic.
10 commandments displayed = What? Oh yeah, that whole Russian/Communist idea of separation of church and state, STILL can’t find that in our constitution anywhere - but that never stops those on the left, hell, they found a right to kill babies in the constitution.
Christian churches getting bulk of Fed. $ = WHAT???? Could we compare the money wasted on social engineering for the last 40 years to the money given to churches for humanitarian work?
Your dread fear of all things relative to Christianity is perplexing. Yes, we worship and chose to live our lives according to God’s revealed inspiration in the Bible, but your comparison of that to beheaders? Your communist/socialist roots are showing!
Need I go on?

Posted by: JR at June 14, 2006 5:10 PM
Comment #157737

MacIrish,

Who do you think is in Gitmo??

Let me give you some news, they are people that would very much like to see you dead and hold a deep ceded hate for all things american.

For those who were released from Gitmo, that’s pretty much certain. For those still there, well, innocent until found guilty, right?

Or does you’ve double standard toward basic rights for every human?
For the ones still the

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 14, 2006 5:14 PM
Comment #157749

“I should point out that only the US is holding itself as morally superior to everyone else.”

Aldous -

You are consistent if nothing else. You yourself list countries sowing more hatred and bigotry than we have seen in here in decades, and you still say something to try to make the US seem like the bad guy/country.

Give it up. If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.

Posted by: Bruce P at June 14, 2006 5:22 PM
Comment #157758

“Would you like to see Britannia
Rule again, my friend?
All you have to do is follow the worms.
Would you like to send our colored cousins
Home again, my friend?

All you need to do is follow the worms.”

From “The Wall” by Pink Floyd

Something in us loves a wall. Whether tradition or convention, the wall maintains structural integrity. It defines the difference between “Us and Them,” it separates us from the Other.

With enough fear, we build walls along borders, between East & West Berlin, along the perimeters of concentration camps.

We separate because that allows dehumanization. It makes the Other different, sub-human, less worthy of life, easier to incinerate. Why spare the Other when the other is an Infidel, or has not been saved? They are literally not worth saving, once they have been sufficiently dehumanized.

Posted by: Phx8 at June 14, 2006 5:34 PM
Comment #157764

‘With enough fear, we build walls along borders, between East & West Berlin, along the perimeters of concentration camps.

We separate because that allows dehumanization. It makes the Other different, sub-human, less worthy of life, easier to incinerate. Why spare the Other when the other is an Infidel, or has not been saved? They are literally not worth saving, once they have been sufficiently dehumanized.’

Posted by: Phx8 at June 14, 2006 05:34 PM


That’s just off the wall.

Posted by: bug at June 14, 2006 5:40 PM
Comment #157767

JR,

Where do I start?

First, I find it amusing how you guys throw around the term Communist. Especially since the President you elected is funding a war with them. I guess you could care less that China is paying for our war right now. We get to pay them back with a nice fee years from now, but since your party loves to borrow money, I am sure you like China now.

Teri Shivo— When I am dying, I don’t want a bunch of wackos who believe burning bushes can talk out in front of my hospice. I want my wife whom I have trusted my whole adult life, to make those decisions for me. Not Sean Hannity and James Dobson. I thought that the Republican party was for LESS government. Or does that mean only when it is convient for you? Hypocritical, but that is your parties mantra.

Gay Marrige was brought up because I think that the Far-Right is way out of touch. They still think it is a choice. Sorry, but it is not. Why don’t you think Dick Cheney is pushing for an amendment? Because even as evil as he is, he still knows reality.

10 Commandments were used because it shows how extreme your party is getting. We had a court order to bring them down from a courthouse, but they still resisted. And why don’t you practice what you preach. I belive one Comandment is thou shall not kill. That can’t happen if we are in a war.

The Christian Church comment came from an article I read. First, let me make sure you understand that I was talking about church funding only. Not a general fund for everybody or organization. I also understand that this is a Christian country. Therefore more Christian churchs will get money. But our President gave more money to those churches that supported the war then those who do not support the war. If I can find the article soon enough, I will make a link.


I don’t ” Fear ” anyone! Or any country. I love this country and would never leave it. That doesn’t mean that I won’t do what I can to change it though.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 5:44 PM
Comment #157768

Vincent, if we take as a given that you really dislike Republicans, the current administration, and Christians, can you tell me what your view is of M.T’s initial post? Is Muslim immigration a problem for Canada and the West in general? With so many posts here I apologize if you somewhere clarified this but I really don’t recall seeing what you think of the main subject of this post.

Posted by: Carnak at June 14, 2006 5:45 PM
Comment #157773

‘I love this country and would never leave it. That doesn’t mean that I won’t do what I can to change it though.’

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 05:44 PM


That sounds contradictory to me.

Posted by: dawn at June 14, 2006 5:50 PM
Comment #157776

Phx8

The crosses on the sides of German machines were not associated with Christianity. The Swastika is common in many cultures but not particularly in Christianity. read about it. For Hitler, the Swastika was the symbol of Aryan cultural descent of the German people. The Nazis claimed that the early Aryans of India, from whose Vedic tradition the swastika sprang, were the prototypical white invaders.

Some Nazis were Christians; most were not and the official ideology was not related to Christianity.

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 5:53 PM
Comment #157779

Dawn & Vincent

I think Vicent’s statement is perfectly rational. We all want to change aspects of our country, presumably to improve it. If we do so within the context of our constitution and freedoms, it is not only allowed, it is our duty. Of course we may disagree re the nature of the needed changes.

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Comment #157780

Dawn,

It’s called evolution. Things change. We should embrace that. Not be scared of it.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Comment #157802

Bug,
Up against the wall?

Jack,
I was not trying to invoke Godwins Law. My point is that the differences, regardless of religion or race or nationality, are not of kind, but of degree.

The harder we embrace traditions and conventions, the more we try to conserve them, the more ossified they become, and the more they serve to separate us.

Take, for example, the death of Zarqawi. I understand the reactions of people & politicians, taking pleasure in the death of a man who deserved much worse than 500 pound bombs. Unfortunately, our reaction is one that will never really get us where we want to go.

Instead of celebrating the violent death of an evil man, we should have been expressing regret and rage over the violent death of a little girl. A little girl was in the house when Zarqawi died.

Imagine if we demanded the Iraqis focus upon that girl, rather than Zarqawi. Imagine if we focused upon the sanctity of life, the unnecessary suffering of innocents that comes with war, the passion that we all share for our children, and perhaps even each other, rather than the celebratory bloodlust over the bombing of a killer. We should have been stressing the need to save each other from bloodshed, regardless of religious affiliation.

Her picture should have been plastered on every wall in Bagdhad. It would have quelled fighting faster than 70,000 soldiers could ever hope to do.

Posted by: phx8 at June 14, 2006 7:01 PM
Comment #157811

Vincent

Your comments are the answer I knew was coming. I use the term communist because, like you they fervently denied religion as idiocy, “the opiate of the masses”. Your thoughts show correctly that you do indeed fear something, christianity. YOU ARE afraid that christians will make you live your life differently, how they will do this I don’t know. Ignoring court orders to remove the ten commandments? I can’t fathom how that makes America bad or good.

Please, if you despise Biblical truth so much, don’t reference it with your interpretation. The commandment “thou shall not kill” SPECIFICALLY translates to murder, there is no reference to warfare. Indeed, your comments have led me to this scriptural reference…
“You shall know them by their fruits”. The new liberal Democratic party is known by their superhuman efforts to promote death. Death for unwanted babies (such a burden on the man/woman). Death for the infirm or terminal (afterall YOU don’t want to live like that). Death to the traditional American “melting pot” at the hands of diversity and multi-culturalism.
E PLURIBUS UNUM!!!

Posted by: JR at June 14, 2006 7:17 PM
Comment #157819

JR,
How ironic. “In God We Trust” officially superceded “E Pluribus Unum” as the national motto through an act of Congress in 1956.

Posted by: phx8 at June 14, 2006 7:26 PM
Comment #157827

Communist regimes like Nazi Germany opposed organised religion only because they wanted to replace religion…the party, leader and ideology became the state religion. With personality cults centered around the leader - Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and so on.

Hitler was very interested in propaganda. He stated in Mein Kampf that he would use elements of religious ceremony to move the masses. Thus, he protrayed himself as saviour of the Germans who were a chosen or special race (ayran) who needed saving from the (untermensch - a long list who included, Jewish people, dissidents, gay people, gypsies, the mentally and physically disabled and clergy who opposed his views). He used the Nuremberg rallies candelight processions, initiation for the young (think Hitler Youth for communion). Many hisotrians have noted the deliberate parallels with religion - Stalin also had initiation ceremonies for kids, if I remember correctly it involved a red cloth - a symbol of the blood of the matyrs. A number of prominent Nazis also engaged in Nazi mysticism including Heinrich Himmler.

It took an almost unshakable faith in Nazism and the Nazi leadership (with a heavy dose of “patriotism”)for Germans to embark upon a war which was to cost 62 million lives before it was over. They did not entertain many doubts when it came to following orders calling for genocide and mass murder. Frau Goebbels murdered her own children so that they would not grow up in a world without National Socialim. There were a spate of suicides by Nazi soldiers when the Third Reich was defeated, this seems to bear the hallmarks of cult suicide, they didn’t want to outlive their leader, the film “Downfall” about the last days of Hitler features some of this.

Therefore, believing the religious tendencies that some people have can be dangerous because they lead to moral absolutes does not make one a communist or a fascist. Both manipulated religious tendencies for political ends quite successfully.

Personally, I think secular humanism is safer. Show me a peaceful religion (other than Buddhism) and I’ll show you it’s violent undertones - eye for an eye, stoning for adultery, hell etc. Religions are generally awash with contraditions and can be invoked to prove (absolutely - GOD himself says it etc) just about anything.

Posted by: abhcoide at June 14, 2006 7:43 PM
Comment #157829

So think before you call someone communist/nazi/fascist etc. because they are sceptical about the “benefits” of religion.

Posted by: abhcoide at June 14, 2006 7:44 PM
Comment #157836

abhcoide

Ah yes, the safety of secular humanism. So safe were those 20+ million at the hands of Uncle Joe Stalin. Yep, this Judeo/Christian nation of ours has used those eye for an eye and stonings and such to put to death, what, 100’s of millions of our own citizens? Get a grip!Secular humanism is mans ability to play down to his inner most desires, without thought of consequence. Would a truly secular humanist country ever convict a child rapist? A drug abuser? Nope, it was his choice, his morality at that time and place in his life. This idea is the “Outback Steakhouse” way of living ones life - “NO RULES, JUST RIGHT”!

phx8

Who said anything about a national motto? I was making a point, demonstrating the simple elegance of said declaration and it’s relevance to the debate concerning diversity and multi-culturalism. So by act of congress the logic of E PLURIBUS UNUM no longer holds true? Please!

Posted by: JR at June 14, 2006 8:10 PM
Comment #157839

JR,

It says “Thou shall not murder” on the ten commandments?

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 8:14 PM
Comment #157841

Phx8

Poison is in the dosage.

I agree that the parents of the girl killed were irresponsible and criminal in associating with Zarqawi and putting their daughter in harms way. Of course, it is possible they did not know the bad guy was there. But anyway I doubt that others would see it that way.

We don’t need to focus on that girl. Every insurgents and terrorist kill dozens of children. Every week they find piles of severed heads, some of them women and children. You could have scores of pictures to focus on. I do wonder why the media ignores this carnage.

I bet that most residents of Baghdad don’t need the pictures. They have seen it. But it still has not quelled the fighting.

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 8:25 PM
Comment #157845

Vincent

The English King James reads “shalt not kill”

The Hebrew meaning of the text relates specifically to the murder of an innocent man/women/child. The text was a tool for the punisments meted out by the High Priest or Jewish councils to those who without just cause took a life.. Christian apologists/scholars through the centuries have struggled with this passage as it related to war, most find the passage to relate to their own personal feelings - if a pacifist, or if longing for protection from persecution etc. While Jesus admonished Peter to put away his sword because “those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword”, there is no indictment of soldiering within New Testament scripture and Christ warns that “there will be wars and rumors of wars”. Hope that helps you out.

Posted by: JR at June 14, 2006 8:46 PM
Comment #157889

Jack:

Most of those severed heads were chopped by the Iraqi Police themselves.

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 9:58 PM
Comment #157891

Dave-
I don’t see Bush able to mandate Methodism or born again Christianity yet. If he did try that, you could not imagine how much anger it would create.

We shouldn’t look at the small little weaselly things the president has done to forward his agend with fear. We should look at with an eye to calmly asserting what is right and true in America. We live in a state of truce, and all who maintain that truce prosper for it. It is a truce between the different peoples of the land, and between the government and those people.

The Muslims, by an large, are a peaceful people. We can steer them away from their radical brethren by simply sharing life and love with them, the way we do with our neighbors and our friends. It sounds naive, sounds corny, but it works for most of us, and it obviates the need for heavy handed controls and manipulations.

We don’t need to renounce multiculturalism, we just need to embrace it so thoroughly we hardly think twice about extending our hand to our new neighbors. If they betray that, then we have police and resources to take care them, as we would take care of any criminals and terrorists. The greatest gift we can give ourselves is a center to our thoughts and feelings that the terrorists can’t touch, can pull and push around, can’t manipulate. When we start acting with calm and reason, they will find themselves faced with a government and people who will not do their job of destroying America for them.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 14, 2006 10:01 PM
Comment #157896

Aldous

And this revelation comes from you usual sources?

We know Zarqawi cut off heads because he proudly filmed himself doing it. Of course he only picked on guys who were tied up, since he didn’t know how to use a weapon. In that way, he was like most perverts. You are happy he is dead, right?

Posted by: Jack at June 14, 2006 10:13 PM
Comment #157908

Jack,
The reason I use the example of concentrating on the death of a little girl, rather than the death of Zarqawi, is that concentrating on the death of an innocent girl represents a “change of paradigm.”

When we focus upon Zarqawi, the underlying message is that the situation will be resolved when enough violent people are killed. Our solution is more violence. We just need to kill the right people.

When we focus upon an innocent girl, the underlying message is that the situation will be resolved by rejecting violence.

I have no doubt we will continue implementing the Negroponte solution. Violence will bring about a “final solution.” There are a lot more Shias than Sunnis, and the Shias control the government; Iraq is, after all, a democracy; and eventually the Shia Death Squads will kill so many Sunni males, the Sunnis will either stop resisting, or cease to exist in close proximity to Shias.

This method will work. It may not take that long. But why the United States would want to be a party to this is beyond me.

Posted by: phx8 at June 14, 2006 11:04 PM
Comment #157914

JR,

So we are at “The End” then right? Isn’t that what Christ was prophecising?

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 14, 2006 11:16 PM
Comment #157918

Jack:

Your Out-of-Date.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3748892.html

Beheading is the upcoming “In” thing in Iraq.

Posted by: Aldous at June 14, 2006 11:37 PM
Comment #157922

Aldous,

Still no reply? I see, you were scared off by what I had to say. Just like the rest of the liberals, you are gutless and weak minded. Come up with a real arguement, with real backing, that could actually be true here in the real world and maybe people will actually start listening to you.

Posted by: Alex at June 14, 2006 11:46 PM
Comment #157929

Alex:

You have a problem reading? I was talking about rascism in Russia and Europe. What is your US post have to do with me?

I suggest you read slower to properly absorb the meaning of the words.

Posted by: Aldous at June 15, 2006 12:05 AM
Comment #157932

Alex:

btw… You still haven’t told us your firsthand Russian Experience in diversity. Guess you forget, eh?

Posted by: Aldous at June 15, 2006 12:13 AM
Comment #157952

Aldous,

I dont believe I was challenged to tell of “fristhand Russian diversity.” I believe that was you. I called you out. And I ask you again, do YOU have firsthand knowledge? Or are you rely you rely on your immigrant friends to tell you what to think? My posts have been directed at you, in response to things you have said, they were not specifically about the US. And if you really dont want to answer to them, thats fine. But I think its you who should go back and reread this entire thread. Maybe, just maybe, then you would see just how ridiculous you sound.

Posted by: Alex at June 15, 2006 1:09 AM
Comment #157966

Alex,

Liberals [insults skipped], come up with a real arguement, with real backing, that could actually be true here in the real world and maybe people will actually start listening to you.

Okay, let’s do this. As you didn’t react to my claim that…

And for everyones information, I lived in London, England and visited most of Europe over the span of 5 years and I can tell you I know what it feels like to be discriminated against because I am white and male.

Yes, it’s well known that white males are the most discriminated population in Europe.
Not.

… here some real facts backing *my* claim:

3.4 Europe’s vulnerable groups

The map of Europe’s vulnerable minorities varies slightly from one country to another. Yet there is a consistency about the national and ethnic origins of those who experience the most discrimination. Far ahead in their structurally reinforced exclusion are the Roma and Travellers.

[…]

In the rest of Europe, while the specificities vary according to the detailed historical trajectory of migration, there is a broad pattern. The least level of integration into normal national labour markets tends to be experienced by those of Arab nationality or appearance, those with the darkest skins, and by recent migrants from Eastern Europe, followed by those from the Indian sub-continent and parts of Asia.

It’s from European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia 2005 Annual Report - Part 2, pages 44 & 45.
According to Europe office in charge of anti-discrimination policy, being a “white male” is NOT a pattern of discrimination in EU.

But now, please, let’s back *your* claim that because you’re a white male who used to live in Europe for 5 years, you know so well how it feel to be discriminated against. Please.

Your frenchly,

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at June 15, 2006 5:21 AM
Comment #158019

Stephen,

I don’t see Bush able to mandate Methodism or born again Christianity yet.
Good point, but I view that with a “for now” qualifier. The FREC is united in thier efforts to impose common Christian teachings. If their power becomes sufficiently consolidated, it is an historical truth that there will be factional fighting between sects on issues such as which side of the egg to crack.

I also agree with the most Muslims are peaceful. I think most everyone is fundamentally peaceful and that contemporary wars or terrorism require circumstances coupled with sociopathic leaders.

I also agree that “love your neighbor” is a great philosophy. But, it will take much more than that to repair the damage done since Ronnie cut foreign aid back in the 80’s. The madrass’ took over where Peace Corp schools used to be and one way is to get those kids introduced positively to our society by schools.

Finally, I am a strong believer in diversity. The strength of my family is pretty good argument for that.

Posted by: Dave at June 15, 2006 10:10 AM
Comment #158078

America is not great because its white,
We’re a super power because we fight,
The wrongs and injustices that hurt us all,
but sadly, about to take a fall.
whenever you look and only see brown,
you might as well just be in the ground,
whenever your agenda is gonna have hate,
yellin that your child should’nt interacial
date,
just remember that someone kindly let most of here,it never would have happened if they lived in fear.

Posted by: jblym at June 15, 2006 2:05 PM
Comment #158080

just remember that someone let most of US here,
it never would have happened if they lived in fear.


sorry for the typo.

Posted by: jblym at June 15, 2006 2:08 PM
Comment #158343

It was a global DEA drug bust followed by the biggest gang bust in history in Toronto. The terrorists were responding to this, alot like London, they were used for a purpose other than what they intended.

Posted by: Redux at June 16, 2006 11:38 AM
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