Interview With Evil: Ahmadinejad Speaks to Der Spiegel

Apparently, Hell is in the midst of a slow season, as the devil himself, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has again resurfaced; this time to participate in a rare, face-to-face interview with Der Spiegel. From soccer to nuclear proliferation, Der Spiegel held nothing back, and for that I applaud them. The bottom line, according to Ahmadinejad, is this: Zionists are evil, the Holocaust never happened, and Iran should be allowed to pursue nuclear technology.

On Soccer

SPIEGEL: Will you be sitting in the stadium in Nuremberg on June 11 . . . ?

Ahmadinejad: It depends. . . . I don't know yet whether I'll be at home in front of the television set or somewhere else. My decision depends upon a number of things.

Dr Politico: Do us all a favor, Ahmadinejad: STAY HOME!!!

SPIEGEL: There was great indignation in Germany when it became known that you might be coming to the soccer world championship . . . . It concerned your remarks about the Holocaust. It was inevitable that the Iranian president's denial of the systematic murder of the Jews by the Germans would trigger outrage.

Ahmadinejad: I don't exactly understand the connection.

Dr Politico: Let me help you with this one, Ahmadinejad. Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany, which would make you a criminal. More importantly though, it is an abhorrent position to take considering the mountains of evidence that proves its occurrence. Your vile remarks are a direct assault on the collective conscience of the civilized world. Unfortunately, your ignorance reflects poorly on the Iranian people as a whole, which you may want to consider the next time you think it necessary to open your mouth.

On Holocaust Denial

SPIEGEL: Well, we are conducting this historical debate with you [on the Holocaust] for a very timely purpose. Are you questioning Israel's right to exist?

Ahmadinejad: Look here, my views are quite clear. We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it. If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from.

Dr Politico: On this, Ahmadinejad, we agree. Fortunately, the Jews’ return to the Holy Land is already happening. As for the Palestinians not being punished for European crimes, you should bear in mind their complicity in the Holocaust and that of the entire Islamic world under the leadership of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini.

Ahmadinejad: Let me ask you one thing: How much longer can this go on? How much longer do you think the German people have to accept being taken hostage by the Zionists? When will that end - in 20, 50, 1,000 years?

SPIEGEL: We can only speak for ourselves. DER SPIEGEL is nobody's hostage; SPIEGEL does not deal only with Germany's past and the Germans' crimes. We're not Israel's uncritical ally in the Palestinian conflict. But we want to make one thing very clear: We are critical, we are independent, but we won't simply stand by without protest when the existential right of the state of Israel, where many Holocaust survivors live, is being questioned.

Dr Politico: Talk about a courageous rebuttal. This interviewer is no patsy. Once again, I must applaud Der Spiegel. Even as Ahmadinejad attempted to control the interview with questions of his own, the interviewer refused to back down, offering intelligent, unambiguous responses to the president’s vile rhetoric.

On the Palestinians

SPIEGEL: The Palestinians have long gone a step further than you and recognize Israel as a fact, while you still wish to erase it from the map. The Palestinians are ready to accept a two-state solution while you deny Israel its right to existence.

Ahmadinejad: You're wrong. You saw that the Palestinian people elected Hamas in free elections. We argue that neither you nor we should claim to speak for the Palestinian people.

Dr Politico: Come again, Ahmadinejad. You have made a point to speak out for the Palestinians. You have even offered a solution: “wipe Israel off the map.”

SPIEGEL: The Palestinians have the right to their own state, but in our view the Israelis naturally have the same right.

Ahmadinejad: Where did the Israelis come from?

SPIEGEL: Well, if we tried to work out where people have come from, the Europeans would have to return to east Africa where all humans originated.

Dr Politico: Nice one, Der Spiegel, but let me just add that Israelis come from all over the world, including Israel. The Arab Jews that live in Israel today have ancient ties to the land. Moreover, many arrived from countries throughout the Middle East where brutal tyrants like Ahmadinejad made it necessary for them to continuously seek refuge in neighboring countries, whose policies toward Jews were only slightly more tolerable.

On Nuclear Weapons

SPIEGEL: What role can Europe play in the resolution of the nuclear conflict, and what do you expect of Germany?

Ahmadinejad: We have always cultivated good relations with Europe, especially with Germany. Our two peoples like each other. We're eager to deepen this relationship.

Dr Politico: Your country, Ahmadinejad, has indeed cultivated good relations with Germany and most especially during the Hitler-era.

Ahmadinejad: Europe has made three mistakes with respect to our people. The first mistake was to support the shah's government. . . . The second mistake was to support Saddam in his war against us. . . . The third mistake was Europe's stance on the nuclear issue. Europe will be the big loser and will achieve nothing. We don't want to see that happen.

Dr Politico: Is that a threat?

SPIEGEL: What will happen now in the conflict between the West and Iran?

Ahmadinejad: We understand the Americans' logic. They suffered damage as a result of the victory of the Islamic Revolution. But we're puzzled why some European countries are opposed to us. . . . By siding with Iran, the Europeans would serve their own and our interests. But they will suffer only damage if they oppose us.

Dr Politico: Now that was definitely a threat. Well, here’s one for you, Ahmadinejad. If you so much as fantasize about an attack on our friends in Europe, your fate will be intertwined with that of an F-16 Fighting Falcon. America will unleash on you an order of pain that the devil himself is incapable of imagining. I can see it now: republicans and democrats holding hands on every street, eating Nathan’s Hot Dogs and dancing to the righteous beat of justice.

Full interview here.

Posted by Dr Politico at May 30, 2006 3:13 PM
Comment #152692

What a remarkably one-sided crap you have just posted.

So the Palestinians are responsible for the Holocaust, eh?

May I ask when in over 2 thousand years of history have the Muslims ever committed genocide against the Jews? Post numbers dead please.

Reminds me of Fox News. No facts. All Opinions. Sheesh.

Posted by: Aldous at May 30, 2006 3:49 PM
Comment #152694


Did you even read the post? What are you talking about?

As for one-sided, it’s actually 3-sided: Ahmadinejad, Der Spiegel, and Dr Politico. To quote you, “sheesh.”

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 30, 2006 3:56 PM
Comment #152728

I find here you made another very good article. I enjoyed your side comments on the insane Iranian guy. I hope that folks don’t just right off what was done here. Der Spiegle is not a magazine that is pro Bush. This is not a partisan issue. This is a world issue. Once again he says he is out after Israel.

Aldous Yes the Palestinians were complicite with the Germans during WWII. They did not like the Jews then nor now. They did not though pull the switch at the death camps.

Posted by: Randall Jeremiah at May 30, 2006 5:07 PM
Comment #152736

come on, mr theil and mr AhMADinejad,how about the events on october 28 , 1938 . and november 7th 1938 in france, then the outcome ……Kristallnacht, on the night of november 9th 1938.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at May 30, 2006 5:24 PM
Comment #152751

This Speigel was at a loss when he interviewed the Iranian President; he couldn’t believe how crazy insane this idiot actually is.

Did you want the number of Jews that Arafat killed during his (terrorist) reign, or just all palestinians that kill jews on a daily basis?! And, how about we wait to see how many (Jews) the Iranians kill if we were to allow them to go nuclear? Then would you still have smarta$$ comments like the one you had earlier? Hmmm!!!

Posted by: rahdigly at May 30, 2006 5:52 PM
Comment #152757

I give credit to the poor interviewer. The circular ramblings of Mahmoud reminded me of dealing with my children when they we 2-3 years old. No matter the reasoning, the patience or the amount of truth being spoken, you can’t convince a toddler that one more cookie isn’t good for them. In one sentence he asks why Germans must pay for the actions of individuals taken 60 years ago, why then should Israelis’ pay for the actions of the British 60 years ago? Its’ a smoke screen, an attempt to cloak rampant hatred of all things Jewish, Christian and non-Islamic. And there are people out there, begging and pleading with the UN, France&Russia&Britain and the US to engage this idiot? Please, all you dialogue freaks, be
certain to aplolgize to the world at large when this menace begins killing on a massive scale, but then again, it would probably just be zionist propaganda.

Posted by: JR at May 30, 2006 6:02 PM
Comment #152758


“Please, all you dialogue freaks, be certain to aplolgize to the world at large when this menace begins killing on a massive scale, but then again, it would probably just be zionist propaganda.”

Nice one!!! :)

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 30, 2006 6:04 PM
Comment #152760


Tell me how many Jews got killed by suicide bombers and tell me how many Palestinian bystanders got killed from 500 pound hellfire missiles exploding in the most densely packed refugee camp in the world.

Posted by: Aldous at May 30, 2006 6:10 PM
Comment #152788


Has Israel beaten the suicide bombers?

“Both sides agree that the main factor in the decline in activity is Israel’s success in killing or capturing the leadership of the most militant groups. Sources close to Hamas, which is responsible for many of the suicide attacks, say that in the West Bank, from where most operations were launched, the organisation has been badly hit.”

Sorry that the Jews are (actually) defending themselves; and quite successfully, I might add.

Posted by: rahdigly at May 30, 2006 7:32 PM
Comment #152791

Dr. P.
Another good post

And no matter what anybody thinks, the Jews will come out as the winner when it is all done.

As far as Iran’s Pres. A. the reason a halocaust did not occur is that killing Jews, the number does not matter is always justified in the minds of people like Pres. A.. Therefore he can really believe that a halocaust did not happen. Most of the rest of the world takes a more real and logical view of history.

Posted by: tomh at May 30, 2006 8:07 PM
Comment #152795


Still waiting for the number of dead Palestinian bystanders.

Though I suppose their lives don’t equal the lives of Israelis in your eyes.

Posted by: Aldous at May 30, 2006 8:17 PM
Comment #152800


Here’s the number of Palestinians killed, which I wrote about in the comments section of a previous post. It’s a BBC article that also makes clear that knowing Palestinian bystanders from combatants is impossible.

“*There are no figures to show the proportion of Palestinians who were combatants and those who were civilians.” BBC

BTW, you should be mindful of the fact that terrorist groups operating in the Palestinian territories—and elsewhere—almost ALWAYS target civilians—a fact that is not credibly disputed. Of course, I’m sure that targeting Israeli civilians is excusable in your eyes.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 30, 2006 8:31 PM
Comment #152801


Also note that for every Israeli killed, about 3 Palestinians suffer the same fate. Considering how evil and genocidal the Israelis are, they sure are ineffective at killing.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 30, 2006 8:32 PM
Comment #152802

Aldous, read that article again and you’ll see that there’s (absolutely) no reason to try and justify the Palestinians. That’s a fact!

And, you’re correct, I don’t care (not one bit) about the Palestinians’ lives when they won’t recognize Israel as a state. Also, we all know that these cowards (palestinians) target civilians and hide in civilians terroritories to avoid being retaliated upon; yet, the Israelis still end up killing them with far fewer civilian deaths than the civilian deaths from the palestians (terrorists). Period!

Posted by: rahdigly at May 30, 2006 8:38 PM
Comment #152803


Do the math. According to the BBC article I provided, about 70% of Israeli victims are civilians. That is no accident. Israeli civilians are purposely targeted.

BTW, the BBC’s reporting on the Middle East has been found to be biased against Israel. So if anything, the previous article I gave you is being overly kind to the Palestinians.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 30, 2006 8:47 PM
Comment #152811

I get it now! This guy is evil! Thanks for telling me! Damn it, my Exclamation Point Lock button is jammed!

Seriously, I always scratch my head when confronted with articles like this. Just because we don’t express the dire need to drop bombs on another country at the drop of the hat doesn’t mean we don’t harbor our own dislike for these kinds of folks?

I think Bush has set a bad example for your people. Most Americans do not need for folks to patiently explain to them what good and evil are, despite what some of you think. I was grinning pretty big when Saddam came down in that square, you know. I liked that we were finally going after him. It’s just the puzzling lack of WMDs and follow-up strategy on occupying Iraq that ruined things for me.

As far as Iran goes, I’d prefer we go for some diplomatic hamstringing of this guy first, at the very least getting people to promise not to interfere if we decide to attack. We should be the ones waging the savvy propaganda wars to separate this guy from his supporters outside and inside Iran.

Unfortunately, the idealists Bush has put in charge of policy are writing strategical checks our forces can’t cash at the moment. We need to be creative to be successful.

Let me pose a question to you guys: What good is it to take action to oppose evil if we plan things so incompetently that we fall on our faces? I think many of this administrations policies can fairly be labelled self-defeating. So how do you folks suggest we continue this cavalcade of conflict?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 30, 2006 9:04 PM
Comment #152813

Dr Politico,

Ahmedinejad is a joke. A bad joke. He will be gone before long. Good riddance to him.

I would like to correct the impression you left however. Israel was formed largely by the European Jews. To say they came from all over the world is accurate, but misleading. The native Jews and the Arabs lived peacefully until the European Jews came and called Israel their home displacing native Arabs. Was the development of Israel just? I guess that depends on who you ask.

Posted by: gergle at May 30, 2006 9:10 PM
Comment #152829

“I get it now! This guy is evil! Thanks for telling me!…I think Bush has set a bad example for your people…As far as Iran goes, I’d prefer we go for some diplomatic hamstringing of this guy first, at the very least getting people to promise not to interfere if we decide to attack.”

Yeah, that’s it, blame Bush. Uhh (newsflash) we are going the “diplomatic” route. And yet, Iran has been thumbing their noses at the world in their obsession to “wipe Israel off the map”. So, let’s stick to the real “Hitler”; hint, it’s (definitely) not Bush. You people need to check yourselves before you destroy America with your anti-Bush crap!

It’s (really) not hard to see the real evil: Iran! Iran! Iran! (Hello!)

Posted by: rahdigly at May 30, 2006 9:53 PM
Comment #152858

It is just so absofreakinlutely ridiculous that he questions the Holocaust. I just shook my head and almost wept. “DO NOT TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF NONSENSE” comes to mind.


Do what I do-pray. I am dead serious. I ask God all the time about things like this. Judiciously, of course. For instance, I had a really rotten neighbor for over a decade. Finally just took it to the Lord in prayer and zip-she was gone. Moved. Just like THAT. Maybe God can snap his fingers and this madman will just disappear!

Posted by: Sabra at May 31, 2006 12:08 AM
Comment #152866

I think your average Iranian cares about wiping Israel off the map the same way the average American cares about wiping Teheran off the map. That is, next to not at all. Most people mind their own business and live their own lives and don’t mourn when some idiot fails to bring death, destruction, and war to their doorstep.

Yet you speak in collective terms. You also speak of war and diplomacy in such a manner that one would think them opposites by your logic.

Strategically speaking, though, they are not. It’s just different aspects of getting your policy to work. As far as Diplomacy goes, our goal might be to knock some supports and suppliers from underneath the current Iranian regime, to interfere with lines of supply. Iran is no more self sufficient than we are, and if we find the right pressure points we can squeeze them.

Bush’s diplomacy is basically warmed-over right-wing cold war stuff. Vast evil entity, no negotiations with evil, diplomacy used to clear the way for unilateral wars.

This isn’t the cold war. Neither is it WWII. It’s our choice how to proceed.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 31, 2006 1:16 AM
Comment #152870


“I think your average Iranian cares about wiping Israel off the map the same way the average American cares about wiping Teheran off the map. That is, next to not at all.”

A President of the United States has never spoken so belligerently, so to compare the average American to the average Iranian is pointless. Regardless, the average Iranian most surely does not identify with their psychopathic leader. However, it is their leader that we must be concerned with. He is, after all, the one who will control the bomb.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 31, 2006 1:28 AM
Comment #152888

Hi everyone:

I read the whole interview. I also read his speech at the UN, the letter to Bush, and a satyrical reply to that from an Iranian ex-pat. This guy is not unintelligent, he is actually quite smart and logical, albeit totally steeped in his beliefs with no respect for the real “ground realities”, which he questions with a logically righteous indignation. He is feeling cocky especially after der Spiegel’s observation that the US has lost the war in Iraq. Hence, she may not be ready or have the stomach to challenge Iran soon. (I hope that is not the thinking in DC.) His messianic message is scary. As I have said before, Bush de-stabilzed the wrong country. It would have taken less than 1000 CIA/Special Forces operatives to make Iran free. But again, no one consulted me. I have had that view for five years. (LOL)

We, in the U.S must understand one thing clearly. The real battle is not about the Islamic regimes versus the free world. It is between the value system enshrined by the “perfect religion” Islam and all other religions that, more than Islam, value the dignity of live human life.

Posted by: Krishan Kumra at May 31, 2006 4:21 AM
Comment #152898

Krishan, I’m not sure Iran destabilization would be either good thing nor easy, but your point about Iraq being a loser and encouraging Ahmedinjad is spot on, I think.

As recently as a year ago, I was training an Iranian immigrant who had just arrived. I suspect most Iranians, as he did, would like a more democratic government. Given the price of oil, Ahmedinjad has ample opportunity to expand his influence. It seems to me a positive long term stragtegy for the US would be to reduce our demand for oil dramatically. This will undermine Ahmedinjad. Leaving Iraq would also help us.

Posted by: gergle at May 31, 2006 7:07 AM
Comment #152903

Krishan - Good Call !
Pres. Ahmadinejad is what happens when a good mind is exposed to “bad” religion. Before anyone freaks out - by bad I mean extremist/ refuses to open their mind a tiny crack. I guess the problem here is that extremists of ANY religion want to turn every disagreement into a holy war. Right now it’s Islam’s turn but we can’t let anyone forget (historically) not so long ago it was Catholics v. Protestants or Christians v. Everybody Else. No one is innocent here. Imagine what the Holy Land would look like if there’s been nukes during the crusades.
Maybe we should pray. Maybe we should pray they send in special forces. I’m not sure.
Regardless this guy needs to be watched and reined in.

Posted by: kp at May 31, 2006 7:31 AM
Comment #152905

Dr. Politico-
My point exactly. I have no problems with dealing with this leader harshly. We got to see, though, that we can outsmart and out talk this guy, if we put our minds to it. We should lay in plans for war, but only bring them to fruition if a truly great risk to our country and our allies is at hand.

To be honest, really, Iran was a prefered target as the next stop in the war on terror, as far as I was concerned. It puzzled me that Bush went after this demonstrated terror-supporting state for the sake of a repulsive but terrorist-lite regime. The irony is, we might have had better luck with this war, had we taken care of Iran in some form first. Hell, we would have had a historical reason to go after Iran or Syria.

Most enduring world religions have peace as their central message. Mine does. I’m not sure of your religion, but I’m sure if you have it, peace is part of the bargain.

Unfortunately, we human being have a talent for making exceptions for ourselves. Neither side of this conflict is immune from the pride of religious fanaticism. Nobody is.

We can only encourage those who practices and preach moderation to go on doing that.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 31, 2006 8:14 AM
Comment #152917

The argument that Ahmadinejad is trying to make is that if Germans were responsible for the Holocaust (which they were), then Israel should have been established somewhere in Germany, not Palestine. The only reason Palestine was chosen was that it was the land God gave the Jews originally, but then drove them out due to their continual disobedience.

Now, I believe Ahmadinejad is a lunatic and extremely dangerous, but I also believe that the Jews were given Palestine because no one else (European or US) wanted to give them land in their regions and, perhaps, to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

Posted by: mac6115cd at May 31, 2006 9:19 AM
Comment #152927

First off, the reporter was (dead) wrong to say that we are losing the War in Iraq. One, it’s not true at all, b/c we are (indeed) winning, two, it’s not his place to say something like that when he’s (supposed) to be interviewing, and three, who the hell listens to a reporter on things like war? We could’ve went to Iran first and it still would have been this messy; no matter what administration is running it. That’s a fact!

And Stephen, to compare the “average” Iranian with the “average” American is just absurd. The (real) threat is the “Average” Mullah dictator that will use their countries wealth to “wipe Jews off the planet”. The last time someone did and said the same thing, as the Iranian president has, it was in the 1930’s and his name was Adolf Hitler. Anybody remember him?! Remember how he said and did ridiculous things just like the Iranian President is doing? Remember how the world wouldn’t take him seriously until it was too late? Well, you better, b/c history is repeating itself and “those who don’t understand history are doomed to repeat it”. That’s (especially) true for the anti-Bush people; your hate is blinding you from reality. Wake up people!!!

So, you guys keep it up with this “it’s Bush’s fault” and “it’s Iraq”, etc. It’s complete and utter BS.

Posted by: rahdigly at May 31, 2006 9:56 AM
Comment #152961

The problem is, as much as we dislike Bush, you dislike us more, and because of that, it’s very difficult to get you folks to focus on the facts at hand rather than turn the discussion to the practical matters at hand. Disliking Bush only applies to this to the extent that we worry about the direction of his policy. We don’t trust him to apply right in Iran what he screwed up in Iraq.

Don’t get on a high horse and claim that we aren’t aware of the danger or willing to defend Israel. We may nuance our support by saying that Isreal needs to break the feedback loop of the Palestinian situation, but that in the end amounts to the same thing: that situation endangers Israel’s security and insures continued hatred for the Jews in Israel.

People like the bastard in Iran feed off of that hatred. Take it away from them, and they no longer have the juicy excuse at hand.

What I would recommend might be called surgical diplomacy. We cut off the blood supply of his leadership in terms of public support, foreign trade, and other necessities We make it harder to do what he wants to do, and obviously, we do our best to make things easier for ourselves.

When and if we strike, we must have the soldiers, the equipment, the vehicles, and the other things necessary to get this right. We cannot simply assume that our strategy this time will work out as planned. That’s just inviting disaster.

If you guys want to claim leadership as your virtue, then lead well, and lead wisely. Don’t feed me more of that Bush Hatred BS, because to be quite plain about it, context matters as to why we dislike this president: his actions have earned more emnity than his political loyalties.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 31, 2006 11:24 AM
Comment #152973


Sorry that the Jews are (actually) defending themselves; and quite successfully, I might add.

Since more than half a century. Great success but still no peace in sigh.
What’s successes when you never reach the final objective?

After such long strong defense policy, maybe it’s time to try something else, right? Like giving palestinians a state. How could it be worse than 50+ years of conflict???

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at May 31, 2006 12:15 PM
Comment #152981

I thought the taliban was the devil? Well, we wiped them out, but there’s still evil in the world. Hmmmm…must be Saddam! Oh, no, wait…got rid of him, still evil in the world. Who’s next? Ahmadenijad! I tell you, even if we have to kill every crazy bastard that’s running his mouth off from a throne, we are going to wipe out evil!

Posted by: David S at May 31, 2006 12:31 PM
Comment #152986


“that situation endangers Israel’s security and insures continued hatred for the Jews in Israel.
People like the bastard in Iran feed off of that hatred. Take it away from them, and they no longer have the juicy excuse at hand.”

Unfortunately, there will always be an excuse for hating Jews in Israel.

Philippe Houdoin and other Israel Critics,

“maybe it’s time to try something else, right? Like giving palestinians a state.”

You are aware that Israel is giving the Palestinians a state, right? You may also want to bear in mind that such a move is historically unprecedented. Countries never give land away, yet that is precisely what Israel is doing. Still, rather than being praised for their actions, Israel is demonized for moving too slowly. Too slowly? Israel has only existed for 58 years. It has endured attack after attack from neighboring countries—and if you feel that this is not the case, take it up with the Encyclopedia Brittanica and the historical record. To this day, Israel remains an unrecognized “entity” by the majority of its neighbors. The Palestinians are demanding that not a single Jew live in their future state, which everbody knows, but nobody criticizes. Meanwhile, 20-25% of Israel’s population are Arab Muslims.

The point is this: criticism must be evenly distributed. I have no problem with people criticizing Israel’s policies. However, it is incumbent on those people to not confine their criticism to Israel alone. Both sides, Israelis and Palestinians, have made mistakes and have engaged in questionable actions/policies. Make sure you understand that before offering your opinion on the matter. It will make your argument far more credible and show you to be a reasonable person.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 31, 2006 12:55 PM
Comment #152988

SPIEGEL: Will you be sitting in the stadium in Nuremberg on June 11 … ?

Ahmadinejad: It depends… . I don’t know yet whether I’ll be at home in front of the television set or somewhere else. My decision depends upon a number of things.

Dr Politico: Do us all a favor, Ahmadinejad: STAY HOME!!!

Europheus: Please go to the game, and try to keep your head still! It will make other people’s job eaiser.

Posted by: europheus at May 31, 2006 12:57 PM
Comment #152989


nice :)

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 31, 2006 12:59 PM
Comment #152990

Regarding my previous post:

“Meanwhile, 20-25% of Israel’s population are Arab Muslims.”

This should read: 20-25% of Israeli citizens are Arab Muslims.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 31, 2006 1:02 PM
Comment #152999

“Since more than half a century. Great success but still no peace in sigh.”

It’s always the Israelis that compromise on the “peace deal”; the palestinians don’t budge. So, yeah, no duh there isn’t peace in sight. Maybe if you stop defending the palestinians and (actually) voice your opinions against them, that would certainly be a step in the right direction.

“The problem is, as much as we dislike Bush, you dislike us more, and because of that, it’s very difficult to get you folks to focus on the facts at hand rather than turn the discussion to the practical matters at hand.”

Stephen, that’s exactly what you can’t seem to do; focus on the facts at hand. It’s a fact that Hitler is alive and well and he’s in Iran; threatening to “wipe Jews off the map”, “destroy Israel with a great wind”, “holacaust never existed”, “Jews and Christians should be marked”, etc. He’s here! He’s right here in front of your face and yet, you want to blame Bush, Iraq and us that disagree with you. That’s the problem; it’s your hate and contempt for Bush, not our dislike for your hatred.

Hate should be reserved for the Iranian gov’t; they are the ones that can’t be trusted, not Bush. I’ve said this before, about Iraq, take your pick! We could have invaded any number of those middle east countries and made a case against them. They all sponsor terrorism and can be connected to Al Qaeda and the jihad. Any country in the middle east would have resulted in the same way, no matter what administration is running it. No matter who!

So, don’t try to turn this on anybody else but yourselves; your hatred for Bush is blinding you, man. Don’t deny it, just let go of your hatred for Bush and you’ll see the real evil in this world; right now it’s Iran. IRAN!!!!

Posted by: rahdigly at May 31, 2006 1:39 PM
Comment #153067

The neocons should be on their knees thanking God for Ahmadinejad. Without people like him spouting hate, who would listen to the neocons when they spout their hate? Not the American people. We have had a belly full with Iraq.

No one could have done a better job of invading Iraq than Cheney and Rumsfeld. Thinking like that must be drug induced.

The Israeli Palestinian war has been going on for my entire life. I am 56 years old. It is still going on because no one wants to end it especially our government. The Palestinians fight the war with the weapons they have and in the only manner they have. The Israelis have one of the best militaries in the world and every piece of it is stamped a gift from the taxpayers of The United States.

If the United States wished to end this situation we could have occupied Palestine and told the Israelis to get out. Then we could have disarmed the Palestinians, built them an infrastructure and an economy that would put most of them to work. Then we could have laid down a square the size of Vatican City with Jeruslem at its center and declared Jeruselem a holly city for Jews, Christians and Muslems atonomous unto itself. Oh, and we would have insisted that the Palestinians recognize Israel. Under such circumstanses I think they would.

Most liberals aren’t opposed to war. They want it to be a last resort. And, if we mast have a war, make sure it is the right war, fought in the right way, under the right circumstances, with the right outcome.

Posted by: jlw at May 31, 2006 4:16 PM
Comment #153073

I realize from reading these post that many think Israel took the land from the Arabs. This is not true. Israel purchased the land from the proper Arab owners. Now the Arab owners had renters on the land and the renters thought that they should not have to leave even though they did not own the land. That is why the dispute started. Israel appropriatly obtained the land. It was legal even to the Arabs at the time.

The problem is that the Koran states vividly that anyone who does not commit to Islam has to be killed. They will not leave any that is the real war. It is against Secularist, Christian, Jew, Pagan and any other form of philosophy or religion. They state very clear they wont allow any other thoughts.

We must face this straight on and not waver at all. If we waver he will see it and take advantage accordingly.

Posted by: Randall Jeremiah at May 31, 2006 4:23 PM
Comment #153078

One very important question here is “Do people have the right to own property? and Does a foreign government have the right to take it away when it was purchased legally?”

Posted by: Randall Jeremiah at May 31, 2006 4:30 PM
Comment #153085


“Oh, and we would have insisted that the Palestinians recognize Israel. Under such circumstanses I think they would.”

If by circumstances you mean kicking out all the Israelis, you are probably right. However, if your solution is to kick out all Israelis in the first place, then you should re-examine your “liberal” identity.

“The Palestinians fight the war with the weapons they have and in the only manner they have.”

I love that liberal line of reasoning. Palestinians have no choice but to kill innocent civilians, so it’s OK. That level of arrogance baffles me. Would you feel the same way if illegal immigrants from Mexico, many of whom claim a right to the land, armed themselves with explosives? Would you feel the same way if someone you knew was killed by a suicide bomber? In a country as tiny as Israel, everyone knows at least one person who has been affected, if not killed, by a suicide terrorist. It’s understandable, though. What were those stupid kids thinking going to a disco. Or the morons who thought riding a bus was an acceptable course of action. And don’t get me started on the ignorant asses who chose to frequent a falafel stand. Those guys deserved to die, so the Palestinians merely effected justice.

There was a time when liberals would have shouted against the killing of any innocent person, regardless of the politics involved. The new, poisonous strand of liberalism, however, seems to have forgotten its roots. Your willingness, jlw, to accept the killing of civilians disgusts me. You should, instead, condemn Israel for whatever reasons you find necesssary, but you should never condone the killing of innocent people.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 31, 2006 4:45 PM
Comment #153095

Dr. Politico-
The Palestinian problem is a juicy excuse (and I do believe it’s an excuse, since the Arab nations won’t let palestinians into their territories) because it’s real. The civilian deaths are real, the squalor and unemployment is real. Skeptics can be confronted with something real to shame them into accepting radicalism, even if they themselves don’t participate.

The reality is, the occupied territories are called that for a reason. These were not Israel’s lands. Israel took them later after the 1967 war. This is in violation of international law. The thorny issue in all this is that Israel took these territories, in part, as a response to attacks that came from them, attacks which were themselves acts of aggressions.

Israel’s founding was problematic to begin with, and both sides have sunk to various low throughout the conflict. The trick here, and what you might fail to realize, is while our support for Israel and our recognition of the atrocities committed by the Arabs and Palestinians is not always explicit, it is there.

What gets me sometimes is that the right seems to think it’s necessary to educate us on the matter. Take the coining of the term “Homicide Bomber.” Are right-wingers assuming that we think these people are just off their prozac? Are they assuming we don’t see the carnage and wreckage and see it for what it is?

Liberals may have a greater tendency to identify policy failures and certain attitudes as causes in foreign policy dust-ups, but it’s mostly out of loyalty, not disloyalty, that we bring things like that up. We’re simply telling people that certain factors may be making our dealing with these problems more difficult.

The concentration on the Israeli side of things mostly has to do with the fact that the Israelis are the closer of the two groups to us. Our greater familiarity and affinity with that group means we will attempt to influence them more than the Arabs, who sit on the other side of a cultural divide. I would say, though that both sides of the divide must be taken care of at once. That would be easier, though, if we had better standing among the nations of the Middle East.

This guy isn’t Hitler. Hitler was actually in charge. He’s a frontman for a bunch of Mullah’s, who are sitting on a great deal of civil discontent. Take that into consideration. You place all too much value in words and threats. If words were capabilities, Saddam could have soaked the deserts with American blood in the first Gulf War, and sent us back in our coffins in the invasion.

The question is, can he do what he says? If he’s influential, can we counter that influence. If he can actually pull things off, how do we trigger our plans?

Seeing as how this guy’s trying to develop nukes, we should do our best to get in the way of equipment and material suited to such things. Uranium he can get natively in his country’s mountains. What he doesn’t have we should take steps to deprive him of. Slow him down. It’s going to be years to start with. We should make it decades, instead, if we can.

I have no desire whatsoever to see this guy get a nuke, invade Israel, or whatever. That may not sink in with you folks, due to the fact you consider us treasonous traitors anyways, but it’s the truth. We just prefer to think out different options.

I don’t trust the Iranians. We should make sure all negotiations include inspections regimes, forced if necessary. I think they were the better second choice in the war on terrorism. Unfortunately, that choice was already made.

Your side, unfortunately, is hopped up on this damned Islamofascism theory, which does for policy what coke-bottle eyeglasses do for those with normal sight. It blurs a ton of useful distinctions, distinctions that generate useful options for actions.

It’s nice to overgeneralize. It makes all decisions easier to make. The trouble is, it makes them much harder to get right.

You think my dislike for Bush is just irrational, but his actions are my primary reason for my dissent against him. I never a thought a president could or would get the things that he screwed up wrong. I didn’t think that somebody would sell me a war on such faulty, hollow justifications. I never thought that after Clinton somebody would dare to deficit spend the way Bush has. I had no idea five years ago that in the time since we would invade Iraq, capture Saddam, but then fail to capture Bin Laden.

I underestimated this president’s incompetence badly. I had no idea he would inflict the kind of damage he has. I grew up knowing far better presidents than him, you see.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 31, 2006 5:07 PM
Comment #153117

Dr. Politico: I see that my ill chosen words have caused a miss conception of my beliefs. When I said Palestine, I should have made it clear that I was refering to the occupied territories of Gasa, the west bank and Jeruselem. Then my position of kicking the Israelis out would have been better understood. Secondly, my wording refering to the palestinean weapons and means should have included the word choose. For, I in no way condone terrorism or terrorists attacks no matter who does it, Palestinians, Israelis, us or anyone else. I think that the Palestinian cause would be far better served if those Palestinians within Israel would resort to civil disobediance as a way of getting their side of the story heard.

While I disagree with the decision to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine, It has been done. And, since it was done, I believe that Israel has every right to exist and the Palestinians have the same right and they must recognize Israel. That is why I believe that had George Bush occupied the Palestinian territory, stopped the violence and removed Jeruselem from the equation, rather than subjecting the Iraqis to terrorism, he could have had his legacy in history. I think that had such a senario been done, the out come for Israel, Palestine and the world would be far better than what all have endured for the past 50+ years that the conflict has been going on, even if we have to stay there for 50+ years.

But, Bush would rather listen to the bulls—t that comes out of the mouths of the neocons. And, he would much rather be beholden to Exxon-Mobile and Haliburton than do something that would make many beholden to him.

Posted by: jlw at May 31, 2006 5:57 PM
Comment #153125


I truly appreciate your clarification. While we may disagree on some aspects of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, your position—as stated in this last post—is one that I can respect.

Nobody should defend the killing of innocent people, regardless of who’s doing the killing. The unfortunate realities of warfare/conflict, however, make it impossible to avoid civilian casualties altogether. Nevertheless, it is incumbent on either party to a conflict to do everything within their power to avoid the loss of civilian life. I’m glad that we at least agree on this obvious truth.

Posted by: Dr Politico at May 31, 2006 6:26 PM
Comment #153156

There was never a land called Palestine until around A.D.79. The Romans had systematically destroyed much of Jerusalem, including the temple, and as another way to further humiliate the Jews, renamed the land Palestine, a corruption of Philistia. So,the NAME Palestine is only around 2,000 years old, and the land belongs historicaly to the Jews, as was promised by Jehovah God, 5,000 ago! As for Pres. Ahmadinejad, he will never cease his drive to totally wipe every Jew from the face of the earth, for he believes he is the man chosen to bring forth the TWElvth IMAM, the Grandson of Mohammad, who has been alive and hiding in a well for 1,200years! This Imam will bring Islam to the entire world, (whether you want it or not!) Do not deceive yourself, there will be no peace as long as this Iranian President is alive, and he will continue to pursue uranium enrichment for military power, against the protests and sanctions of every nation on earth!

Posted by: Angel 1 at May 31, 2006 8:00 PM
Comment #153228

Are you one with a bowl or one with a scroll?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 31, 2006 11:53 PM
Comment #153302

Stephen, neither bowl nor scroll, but I AM capable of reading! And I do read more than just our own papers. The Iranian Prez himself has spoken of this Twelvth Imam, and the fact that he will bring Islam to the entire world, if not through peaceful conversion, then by any means needed! And Pres.A is firmly convinved he is the leader who is paving the way for this holy Imam to come forth. And if you know anything at all about the true Islamic faith, you will discover that is the holy mission as stated in the Koran and the Holy Hadith. And I do have suras,(verses) from both to back up their hatred of anyone NOT of the Islamic faith, and the commands of Mohammad and Allah to kill those who will not accept! It does not take a Christian to follow events to see what is shaping up in Iran, although it does help to see what will happen next!

Posted by: Angel 1 at June 1, 2006 9:24 AM
Comment #153434

Angel 1-
Sorry, Revelation of John joke.

The trick to that claim of ownership is that one could argue (as many orthodox opponents of zionism do) that God made the diaspora occur for a very good reason, and that human reinstatement of the nation of Israel would be sort of denying God’s will.

Of course, that’s the religious view. The reality is, today’s Israel is the former Palestine, which was once a British protectorate, after its years as part of the Ottoman Empire. The Israeli’s took over by guerilla warfare. Many of the zionists who helped to found the state were not even really religious. As I mentioned, many orthodox at that time thought it was somewhat blasphemous to reverse the sentence of the diaspora.

As for commands to kill those who do not accept Islam, I think you lack historical perspective. After all, colonies of them (known as the Sephardic Jews) not only survived, but did much better than their peers did. Anti-semitism (in the classic definition of hatred for jews) is actually quite recent in Arab History. Western Civilization (which Ghandi said would be a great idea) was persecuting the Jews right up until the point the sheer horror of the holocaust put an end to that.

Key question with this guy, is can he do as he promises? I think that’s doubtful to some degree, but I don’t trust him myself, and hope that somehow we can use this guy’s weakness, and those of the Mullahs he fronts for, to turn this situation around.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 1, 2006 3:02 PM
Comment #153497

Stephen, please read the biography of Mohammad, plus the Koran and the Holy Hadith. I have. Or if you like, I can give you just a few suras that back up what I have written. I do research before I write, to be sure I am correct. I would never write anything if I could not back it up with proof. As for the re-instatement of Israel as a nation, read Ezekiel. There is where God promised promised Israel would become a nation again someday in the far future!

Posted by: Angel 1 at June 1, 2006 5:46 PM
Comment #154096

The first Jewish and Roman war, 66-73 Titus Sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the second Temple, leaving only the western wall, in 135, following the fall of a jewish revolt led by Bar kokhba in 132-135, the roman emperor Hadrian expelled most of the Jews from Judea, leaving large Jewish populations in Samaria and the Galilee area, then he HADRIAN changed the name of judea (ISRAEL) to syria palestina as a insult to the now conquered jews. again HADRIAN the roman emperor changed the name in 135.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at June 3, 2006 5:47 PM
Comment #155902

Politicians hardly use logical reasoning. Ahmadinejad is honest and capable of talking with reason and common sense. His points make sense.

Posted by: Topo at June 9, 2006 3:05 AM
Comment #156543

Man you people are living in a fantasy world. Are you all literally on drugs? SSRI’s? A bunch of Dylan Kliebolds. Palestine is guilty of Holocaust crimes? Ahmadinejad is a Hitler fan? OH man, what a stretch. Why did you cherry pick that interview? The parts you cut out were vital. Your edit job is completely amateurish and misleading.

HOw you, or anyone, can take away from this interview that Ahmadinejad is a “monster”, is beyond me. My whole office read it and every single person said the same thing… they wished the USA had a president half as smart and logical. Bush can’t speak a sentence without a cue card, much less an off the cuff interview by 3 different hostile journalists. Thats right, Ahmadinejad was interviewed by 3 guys and had no idea what they were going to ask him.
Remember, Iran, in their whole history of 1000’s of years, has NEVER started a war. NEVER. Our country is only 230 years old and we’ve started dozens of wars.

Posted by: max at June 11, 2006 2:20 PM
Comment #156544

Dr. Politico, you truly are the most deluded person I’ve come across in months. I truly did not think there was anyone stupid enough to actually be sticking up for Bush and want to talk about suicide bombing and civilian targetting? Let me ask you, when your enemy has million dollar laser guided bombs, million dollar tanks and helicopters, and you only have a couple hundred dollars? How are you going to fight back if they killed your family and raped your sister?

For the huge list of ISraeli false flag terrorist attacks that killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, go to and and

Posted by: max at June 11, 2006 2:26 PM
Comment #196612

It’s at times like this, as I sit in front of my home computer and read the comments posted on this site, that i find more conviction in Plato’s criticism of democracy.

For those that are not familiar with this idea, let me put it in layman terms. Opinions are free but the truth comes with a tax. Meaning if you are not qualified to make a statement, if you haven’t educated yourself sufficiently and care little for the truth in a matter, then you would be wise to close your lips and let the rest of humanity evolve.

First off, a pet peeve, stop saying “evil”. Is that the extent of our knowledge as mature, somewhat educated people, to the motivations behind people’s actions? Do better.

The escalating crisis between the united states and iran, the crisis between the palestinians and the isrealis, lebanon, are all issues that have boggled the minds of some of the most brilliant minds of this present century, and it is dispicable that some of us try to abbreviate the problem in a few short paragraphs. Or better yet, offer brilliant abbreviated solutions “nuke the bastards, the evil cockroack monkey face fascist rasict, live in the sand, tamarind eating heathens” etc.etc. Shame! How about some respect? Especially to a culture that dates back to antiquity, a civilization to whom we owe our present charter of rights and freedoms, our postal system, a civilization that once ruled two thirds of the entire world.

So my point here is, I can’t offer any solutions. But lets please make a more sincere attempt to truly understand the facts on the issure, and not corrupt the internet with our hate filled, arrogant, and rude comments towards anyone.

Posted by: Peter_V at November 27, 2006 8:19 PM
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