Jobs We 'Won't Take'

This is a term being used to convince us we need illegal immigrants.
What are these jobs and why won’t ‘we’ take them?

Why won't 'we' take these jobs?
Many of our children have been taught that they are 'to good' for these jobs.
Our kids should be taking these jobs for no other reason than to build character.
Our kids are 'too busy' to work. They are involved in every possible 'thing'. They are just 'too busy' to be bothered to work some menial job that a 'lower class' person should fill.
It's hard for me to understand that a 'Christian Nation' such as ours has become so selfish and, I guess, snobby.

I noticed this many years ago.
I am talking about Church.
It used to be that people wore their 'Sunday Best' and it didn't matter if your 'Sunday Best' had holes.
Churches (actually the parishioners) are now 'picky'.
I have talked to people who stopped going to Church because they are looked down on because their 'Sunday Best' is not brand new and from the best stores in town.
I have talked to people who could only afford to put a dollar in the basket and were told they needed to give more.

One of my first jobs out of High School was baling hay. I helped bale the hay, stack it on the wagon, and then put it up in the barn. It didn't pay alot- minimum wage. It was character building. Not only because of the hard work BUT because the farmer was a pervert who offered me my pay plus double my pay to do 'favors' for him. (My boyfriend and a friend went to his place and kicked the crap out of him - and I didn't go back to work.)

We HAVE TO secure our border.
We HAVE TO know who is coming into our country.
We HAVE TO give people a chance to live and work in the U.S. -without letting in the criminal elements that other Nations are happy to see go.

Background checks. Nothing wrong with those.
National ID's. Nothing wrong with those.
Guest worker programs with ID's that are NOT easily forged. Nothing wrong with those.

NO MORE 'Catch and Release'.
NO MORE signing kids up for school without the parents filing for legal status.
NO MORE in-state tuitions for illegals.

It's not hard to figure out. People don't have to be 'alienated'.

The Republicans are 'worried' about alienating the Latino vote for the next 40 years?
What about the rest of us?
Our Politicians are counting on the 'short memories' of the average American.
What is that saying?

What does the 'average' American really think...
Lie to me once and I'll forgive you. Lie to me twice and .....

Posted by Dawn at April 1, 2006 12:34 AM
Comment #137208

I should also have added that I know people who traveled to Mexico to train their replacements when their jobs moved south of the border.
If they hadn’t done it they would not have been eligible for ‘re-education’ or training for a new skill to get a new job.

Posted by: dawn at April 1, 2006 1:52 AM
Comment #137219

Illegal immigration is such a weird problem. The folks on the right want to stop it even though those on the left say it’s the “evil businessman” who’s really profiting off of illegal immigration. Well, there ya have it! The folks on the right want to harm the “evil businessman”. Go figure.

Then folks on the left yak and yak about minimum wage and its importance and how it should be raised, but yet they have no problem with illegal immigrants coming in and working for below minimum wage. Go figure.

Then we all (all who are sane anyway) worry about our national security and the terrorism which confronts us, but yet no party (both of which claim to be the party of national security) wants to do anything serious to curb illegal immigration. Go figure.

It’s the age of PC. Let’s have one of the most lenient naturalization processes in the world, and still treat illegal immigration like it’s a “gray area”. YGBFSM.

Posted by: BTO at April 1, 2006 2:39 AM
Comment #137221

Those on the ‘left’ are trying to gain votes …while those on the ‘right’ are trying not to alienate voters.

I still wonder why the ‘establishment’ on EITHER side is more concerned with ‘future’ voters and not worried about screwing the voters they have now.

Posted by: dawn at April 1, 2006 2:47 AM
Comment #137223

No more Automatic citizenship for the children born of illegal aliens in this country. Talk about a reward for being a scofflaw!!

Posted by: Mary Lou at April 1, 2006 2:53 AM
Comment #137226

Bush aka DumBya is wrong on the War and wrong on Immigration and therefore should be impeached for both but along with Chennnnny.
Both should be Impeached and Convicted and given the penalty for treason!!!!

Posted by: Curtis Minor at April 1, 2006 3:11 AM
Comment #137230

I still know how to build a haystack out of any form of baled or loose hay. I support the President on the immigration policy he wants as long as it involves everybody who is walking around in this country having one name that is honestly based on a real birth certificate from somewhere. Anybody with too many names and concealed criminal history should be out of here.

Posted by: Michael L. Cook at April 1, 2006 3:33 AM
Comment #137238

“I still wonder why the ‘establishment’ on EITHER side is more concerned with ‘future’ voters and not worried about screwing the voters they have now.”

I work for a telecom company, and see the exact same thing. New customers ALWAYS take priority over existing ones. Gov’t runs like a business in many ways, sadly. Watching both the left and the right side of the political spectrum scramble to morph the current crop of crimaliens into their next voter bloc makes me want to puke, but proves my point.
Dems and Repubs both assume their base won’t leave them regardless of what becomes of illegals just as my company assumes it won’t lose the customer without service for the last 3 days. If you think either side cares about their existing voters’ opinions, think again.
In closing, I urge all of you to at least consider rejecting the bogus left/right ONE party system, and do a little independant research and vote 3rd party this year, and 2 years from now.

Posted by: Bob Kelley at April 1, 2006 7:33 AM
Comment #137239


Maybe it would be better if you list the jobs you consider too good for Americans?

Posted by: Aldous at April 1, 2006 7:41 AM
Comment #137242

I work in the construction industry and I see the falsity of the argument that illegals are just taking the jobs Americans won’t do all the time. Illegals are doing skilled jobs. Just try finding someone on a wall crew who speaks English and you’ll see the truth. While it is true that they often do menial labor it’s equally true that many are skilled workers. I’ve seen American craftsmen turned away from skilled jobs because illegals can be hired cheaper.
I say secure the borders, deport illegals, stop letting them have the benefits of citizens and severely penalize anyone who hires them. This will force Mexico to put its own house in order. Most people don’t seem to realize that Mexico has a policy of “reconquista” or taking back the American southwest. This is a form of war being waged against the United States to annex part of our territory.

Curtis Minor,
You should read the Constitution sometime. Disagreement with policy is not grounds for impeachment and treason consists only of levying war against the United States.

“jobs too good for Americans”? I think dawn’s point was that many Americans think they are too good for the jobs.

Posted by: steve at April 1, 2006 8:50 AM
Comment #137243

How can American sovreignty, security and safety be placed beneath election votes?
How can loyalty to the integrity of America be of so little importance?

Posted by: Roger Berry at April 1, 2006 8:59 AM
Comment #137246

Frankly, I think Bush’s comment concerning work Americans “won’t do” is bogus, if not arrogant. I’ve worked more than one unpleasant job in my life, and am as proud of what I did then as I am now.
Steve, while I essentially agree with you, I feel that what type of labor illegals perform is irrelevant. The fact is that they’re here illegally, and we currently don’t know what to do about it.
This issue spans both parties. Leftist ideology married to right-wing greed has brought us to where we are.

Posted by: Bob Kelley at April 1, 2006 9:17 AM
Comment #137250

I was a former illegal worker. My family was on welfare and I took numerous under the table jobs both as a minor and at sub minimum wage. As my skills increased, so did the wages. I had favor with a certain farmer because of my willingness to work in the hay all summer. His family was shocked when I dated his daughter. My work ethic save me. We have been happily married for 26 years now.
I therefore agree hiring under the radar is a seperate issue from enforcing immigration laws.
The dynamic of rewarding diligent people and paying slackers as little as possible shouldn’t be messed with. It makes it impossible to weed out unproductive people and we lose our competitive edge on world markets.

Posted by: Kruser at April 1, 2006 9:42 AM
Comment #137259

BUBAR: Bushed Up Beyond All Recognition

It irritates me everytime Bush says we need illegal aliens to do jobs we don’t want to do.

What he is rationalizing and condoning is greedy employers of illegal aliens that want cheap labor at sub-minimum wages.

Bush is a hypocrite, and his amnesty program will increase the flow of illegal aliens.
Bush is condoning an underclass.
While he is trying to get amnesty for illegal aliens, he ignores the minimum wage. He wants to keep that cheap labor. He’s as greedy as the employers (e.g. Walmart) of illegal aliens.

In past periods of high immigration, there was a difference. It was mostly legal, and immigrants did not place a huge burden on the government and other people. They contributed. No so now.

Now, immigrants are illegal, and they are a net loss to U.S. citizens.
Cheap labor is a myth.
It isn’t cheap.
32% of illegal aliens are on welfare.
29% of 2,200,000 federal and state prisoners are illegal aliens.
So, for many, the American dream is welfare and crime.

I don’t hate you or any illegal alien. The majority of U.S. citizens that want illegal immigration stopped are not racists and xenophobes, just like most illegal aliens come here for work. Most of us do not blame you, or any illegal alien for wanting to come here to work.

However, you yourself just admitted to merely two reasons (of many) why it hurts U.S. citizens:
(1) welfare (32% of illegal aliens are on welfare)
(2) tax evasion (most illegal aliens are off the books)

But those two things are just the tip of the iceberg. Increased violent crime rates represent a huge human cost?

And crime is just part of it.
There are many other serious issues:

  • burden on education systems;

  • burden on healthcare systems;

  • burden on hospital systems;

  • burden on welfare systems;

  • burden on Social Security system;

  • burden on Medicaid system;

  • burden on border patrol systems; ever increasing numbers are needed;

  • burden on insurance systems; illegal aliens can/will not pay for damages they cause;

  • burden on law enforcement systems; costing California billions per year;

  • burden on prison systems; 29% of those in state and federal prisons (Sep-2004) are illegal aliens;

  • voter fraud; burden on voting systems;
  • Our own federal government is a culpable too.
    The federal government forced states to allow illegal aliens into our public schools, made it illegal to report illegal aliens using (without paying) our hospitals and emergency rooms, and forced states to release illegal aliens over and over.

    And, voters are to blame too.
    They are so pathetic.
    They are such bleeding hearts.
    They believe we can all live at the expense of each other. It’s someone else’s problem.
    They make excuses for illegal aliens.

    The end result will be the failure of our:
    public school, hospital, welfare, insurance, prison, and law enforcement systems.

    Americans are falling for the cheap labor myth.
    The cheap labor mostly benefits the fat CEO’s making hundreds of millions per year.

    Americans are foolishly selling themselves out. Or, America sold out a long time ago, and we are merely witnessing the transfer of the assets of that sale now?
    When the deal is complete, like most corporate buy outs, Americans will start losing more than just their jobs, and that day seems to be getting closer and closer every day.

    If Americans apathetically standby, once again, and do nothing, then they deserve what ever they get.

    Posted by: d.a.n at April 1, 2006 10:35 AM
    Comment #137260

    WE can eliminate the problem. Rather easy actually……..Make HIRING illegal aliens a felony and make jail-time AND hefty fines the punishment. And enforce the law. With the elimination of jobs due to the fact that most employers DON’T want a felony on their reccord nor desire to pay the heavy fines…..the illegals, for the most part, will have to come to the authorities to ask to be sent home. BUT WE must demand to see it passed AND enforced. Most of the problem now is the lack of enforcemnt! Hiring illegals is already aagainst the law….just make the stakes too high for the employers to want to deal. Simple.
    And boot out the “sell outs” in the federal and state governments who refuse to legislate in the American People’s BEST interests! That DOES include BOTH parties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by: qatwoman at April 1, 2006 10:36 AM
    Comment #137261

    “Why won’t ‘we’ take these jobs?”

    One important aspect of your question that many choose to ignore.
    People won’t take “these” jobs, because they don’t have too.
    One could work 8+ hours a day, earn a paycheck and keep trying to do better for themselves.
    One can sit on the front porch all day, be given a paycheck, not wanting to do better for themselves and complain about how they are treated unfairly.

    Illegals don’t do the jobs Americans can’t do, they do the jobs Americans won’t do.
    Until they figure out how to beat the system that is.

    Posted by: kctim at April 1, 2006 10:53 AM
    Comment #137264

    kctim, you need some facts. First, the 30+ % of agricultural jobs which illegals now hold, are primarily temporary, seasonal, and migrant, and low waged. If illegals were not taking these jobs, farmers would become engaged in the free market forces of supply and demand and adjust to either increasing the wages and benefits to draw legal workers or automating the processes through innovation.

    All other jobs they hold, the same is true, with one exception, these other jobs are in greater demand by legal workers. America has no lack of undereducated and underskilled workers who would take the building industry, and service industry jobs now held by lower wage, no benefit illegals.

    Finally, I would like to point out the health risk of illegals. The Border states ALL have significantly high rates of Tuberculosis and Hepatitis compared to the rest of the nation, and that is due to the fact that illegals are medically screened for syphillis to TB, as legal immigrants are. The food you eat today may well have been sneezed upon and handled by by a diseased illegal. Statistics on elevated disease rates at border states are readily verifiable.

    Posted by: David R. Remer at April 1, 2006 11:10 AM
    Comment #137265

    Illegal immigrants come from all over the world. Most of them use Mexico to cross the border. That doesn’t mean they are mexicans. Why people thinks mexicans are the only ones illegal here? Are we all Latin-America? Are we the rest of the world? Please, open your mind and accept that the problem is not Mexico, this is a politician business,nothing else.

    Posted by: Lia at April 1, 2006 11:20 AM
    Comment #137267

    We need a Wall. Tancredo was right about that part. Penalizing Employers isn’t enough. We must build a wall.

    Posted by: Aldous at April 1, 2006 11:23 AM
    Comment #137273


    A wall? Nawww…

    I agree with Dennis Miller on this one.

    Look, we are already 9 trillion dollars in debt. Why not make it 12 trillion…and BUY Mexico?

    Make it our 51st state and then we won’t have about a thousand miles of border to protect. Just a little bitty bit down near Guatamala.

    And we would OWN Cancun, Cozumel, Alcapolco, Playa Del Carmen, and TONS of tourist traps that we could tax the hell out of.

    Also, we wouldn’t have the cost of building a wall…and the Mexicans wouldn’t have to sneak into the U.S. to make the minimum wage. They would already BE THERE!

    This idea sound dumb? Ask the folks in Honalulu. Ask the folks in Anchorage. We bought Alaska for about 2 cents an acre from Russia.

    Why not Mexico?

    For 3 trillion dollars…it would be a BARGAIN!!!

    Great beaches, cool lookin’ hats, Montezuma’s Revenge, plenty of oil and natural gas (have you eaten the food?) and enough dirt-poor people to do the jobs we are to DAMN GOOD to do for decades!

    And we don’t have to start a war to take it over.

    So…what’s the downside?

    Posted by: Jim T at April 1, 2006 12:17 PM
    Comment #137275

    Penalizing employers may not be enough but it is certainly a start. More than that, its something we have a moral obligation to do. Employers who hire illegals (and customers who use such companies) are effectively stealing from the rest of us. The savings they realize by not paying taxes / contributing to social security amount to a subsidy that is funded by everyone else who pays taxes. This is true for anyone who hires people “off the books,” but its when employers hire illegals they are genertating demand and exacerbating the immigration problem.

    Stricter border enforcement is a good idea for many reasons but the reality is that as long as there is a market for such workers these folks will find a way to get in. We need to stop giving these freeloaders (business people who hire illegal immigrants, that is) a free ride. Don’t patronize business that use undocumented workers. Let them hire legal workders, pay the wages that the market demands and pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay. The costs of certain things will increase and some people will be forced out of business. But the only people who would be hurt by such a policy are those that have been, up till now, sponging off those of us who follow the law.

    With all that said, I need to add one more point. No matter what course we eventually decide to take, we must never lose sight of the fact that these people (who I’ve simply grouped as “illegals” up to this point) are human beings who, in general, want nothing different from the rest of us: to make the most of their lives and provide for their families. They are people who have made great sacrifices and taken great risks to come here and live in conditions that most Americans would consider deplorable. I am not advocating that we simply grant everyone instant citizenship and give them all medals, merely pointing out that we should be very careful about losing our humanity in deciding how to deal with these people.

    Posted by: adverbal at April 1, 2006 12:51 PM
    Comment #137282

    I have been out of work for 2 years, all the jobs in my area are being taken by illegals. try to get a job that pays a liveing wage (around $20.oo a hour in my area) and you can’t becasue the illegals will do it for $12.00… Try to start a business, and do it the right way, get a state tax number and business licenes from the city. What happens the illegales run you out of business by under cutting your prices. I’m lucky my wife is a R.N. and makes Good money orther wise I be sleeping in our car! She had to take a pay cut last year, because the hospital she work for lost so must money. seems the hospital was in the red due to Illegals useing the E.R. and haveing on money or insurance!

    The people marching in the streets are in the wrong places, they should be marching in Mexico City. they should be demanding the Goverment of Mexico due something for the people. They need jobs, houseing and a away to help pay for them, something like our F.H.A or H.U.D. programs. However you will never see the Mexican Goverment due anything to help the people, why because they like the millions of U.S. Dollars send home to the Family of Illegals every year.

    This is true no only for Mexico but most Orther countries as well, if we due not put a stop to it the U.S. will become a 3rd class country!

    Posted by: Rick G at April 1, 2006 1:29 PM
    Comment #137284

    Rick G,

    I’m very empathetic to your situtation and I hope you find work soon - but you post is part of a mindset that infuriates me. Blaming the illegals is like blaming the other guy if your wife cheats on you. Sure, what he’s doing isn’t honorable, but he doesn’t owe YOU anything. Its your wife who broke her vow. Same thing here. Somebody is making out by paying those workers $12/hour. You can’t say its the illegals because their savings of not having to pay taxes, SS, union dues, etc don’t add up to $12/ hour. You could argue that they have lower costs, but of course we could all choosed to live in illegal apartments shared with 20 other guys and only 2 bedrooms.

    No, the ones who are making out are the employers. If they really are paying $8 less an hour then they are actually saving much more than that due to payroll taxes, FICA, insurance, unemployment, etc. Whomever is paying undocumented workers is directly profiting from your suffering - and yet we as a society let them get away with it.

    Posted by: adverbal at April 1, 2006 1:43 PM
    Comment #137285

    Boy, I’ve really got to get back into the habit of previewing my posts first. Forgive this, but I’m so embarrassed by all the grammar, spelling, and style errors above I’m re-posting it.

    I’m very empathetic to your situation and I hope you find work soon - but your post is part of a mindset that infuriates me. Blaming the illegals is like blaming the other guy if your wife cheats on you. Sure, what he’s doing isn’t honorable, but he doesn’t owe YOU anything. It’s your wife who broke her vow.

    Same thing here. Somebody is making out by paying those workers $12/hour. You can’t say its the illegals because their savings of not having to pay taxes, SS, union dues, etc don’t add up to $8/ hour. You could argue that they have lower costs, but of course we could all choose to live in illegal apartments shared with 20 other guys and only 2 bathrooms.

    No, the ones who are making out are the employers. They are really saving much more than $8 an hour since they don’t contribute to payroll taxes, FICA, insurance, unemployment, etc. Whomever is hiring undocumented workers is directly profiting from your suffering - and yet we as a society let them get away with it.

    Posted by: adverbal at April 1, 2006 1:49 PM
    Comment #137286

    There are a great many people who would rather be supported by the govt than work.
    None of the facts you posted prove otherwise.

    I am against illegal immigration and I believe both, employer and illegal, should be prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law.
    But, employers need bodies to take the place of the illegals in order for any such idea to work.
    Free money from the govt? or Work 40 hours a week? The strain on our welfare system proves which option the people would choose.

    Posted by: kctim at April 1, 2006 2:00 PM
    Comment #137293
    qatwoman wrote: WE can eliminate the problem. Rather easy actually……..Make HIRING illegal aliens a felony and make jail-time AND hefty fines the punishment…

    Absolutely. That is a vital part of the solution.

    adverbal wrote: Blaming the illegals is like blaming the other guy if your wife cheats on you.

    That’s true also, for the most part.

    Corrupt, irresponsible, bought-and-paid-for politicians, and well meaning, but ignorant, bleeding heart Americans helped it along, by making excuses for illegal aliens.

    32% of illegal aliens are on welfare.
    29% of prison population is illegal aliens.
    Crime rates are increasing.
    Gangs and drugs and violent crimes are increasing.

    There was a time when immigrants contributed to the nation, and placed no burden on the government and the other citizens.

    Not so now.

    Now, the American dream for far too many illegal aliens is crime and welfare.

    The fact is, the problem is one we created.
    We stupidly lure them here with jobs (most off the books and pay no taxes), welfare, Medicare, free public education, no requirement for drivers licenses or auto insurance, free Emergency Room care, and we even let them vote in our elections.

    So who is stupid.

    Americans are stupid.

    And they are proving it every day and every year by re-electing the very same irresponsible, bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians that keep stickin’ it to ‘em.

    I guess we won’t be happy until we have nothing left. Massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration is like a swarm of locusts descending on a field of crops, devouring everything, and when nothing is left for anyone, they all move on, and search for a new victim.

    Congratulations. Keep being nice, and well meaning, and ignoring your fellow citizens, while makin’ excuses for illegal aliens, and votin’ for corrupt politicians, and see where it gets you. Keep doing it, and you’ll get exactly what dumbasses always get.

    Posted by: d.a.n at April 1, 2006 2:28 PM
    Comment #137300

    Bush is doing now what he accuses others of doing on issues he’s pushing, which is sending the wrong message to the enemy (or more strongly, at times, aiding and abetting the enemy). He is first letting every country know that breaking a law in America is OK so long as he doesn’t agree it’s a good law and a million lawbreakers crowd the street lambasting the laws. He has, secondly, given false hope to would-be immigrants that coming here illegally is OK, but they’d better hurry before the gates are shut. There have been over 100 illegals counted in my area in the past two days being coyote-escorted across the border. Many escaped; only about 90 were captured. Bush is the same as giving them an engraved invitation to “hurry on over, illegals. It’s OK. We understand you just want to work.” Americans, such as the Minutemen and Senator Tancredo, are being pointed at as the criminal, and being threatened bodily harm by these “peaceful” illegals and their American supporters. Since when did upholding the law become criminal? It’s funny how part of the naturalization pledge immigrants must give for citizenship is that they will abide by and uphold the laws of the United States. Yet our top politicians are inciting millions to continue breaking the laws. It’s funny how the President and every cabinet official, congress person, justice, and all government workers are sworn to uphold the laws of the United States. This is not right to allow preempting the law because our leader and lawmakers may not agree with it. The democrats were in charge, the majority, when the last immigration laws were mandated. Illegal employment was punishable and illegal immigrants deportable. If you didn’t agree with the law you wrote, why did it become law, Mr. Democratic congress person?

    Lastly, I, too, would like for these advocates of illegal immigration to name the specific jobs Americans won’t do. /don’t just generalize with agricultural workers, service workers, construction workers (which, by the way, most construction workers are highly skilled). I would also like to see a list, by name, of those business owners who can’t find sufficient workforce without hiring illegals. If you are proud of hiring illegals, stand up and give America your name and business. I, for one, will be sure not to buy from you. If enough true Americans, American born and legal immigrants, quit buying from you you won’t need to hire illegals and be yourself breaking the law.

    No fair collecting pork barrel federal subsidies, Mr. American corporate farmer. I bet you would find some way to harvest your crops if you were in jeopardy of losing your business. The Bracero Act worked pretty well for agriculture.

    Posted by: Kathy at April 1, 2006 2:49 PM
    Comment #137301


    Actually, Curtis Minor is correct. It is an impeachable offense and treason, when a President and Vice President fail to uphold the law of the land. Illegal immigration is illegal as of right now. Illegal employment of illegals is illegal, as of right now. Starting a war on false information is illegal, as of right now. These public officials were sworn to uphold the laws of the constitution. They were not given any rights to rewrite the constitution just because they don’t agree with parts of it.

    Posted by: Kathy at April 1, 2006 2:56 PM
    Comment #137303

    Although I will hold the view that we need to make fines of a $1.00 and demand the American Companies step forward and purchase a Federal Permit to hire any Guest Worker after they pay their fine of a $1.00 per hire of Illegal Alien, the problem that faces America’s Children is the fact if we are going to grow the Nation in population and wealth than the Democrats and Republicans need to get of the “I” and start talking about “We the People” and how/what can be done here and in the world to change the face of Poverty.

    For example, if “We” require that every Citizen and Guest Worker making under $70,000.00/yr be given Free Financial Education and a 7% apr interest account through the Federal Reserve than when these Guest Workers can go back to their Country and start businesses so that they can build their own community.

    However, given the limited info I got out of the Mexican Retreat at Can Cun, President Bush and Fox think that they need to lower the population of Central America not help them build a “Better World.” So should American Business be allowed to take advantage of Central America’s Leadership failure to act?

    Posted by: Henry Schlatman at April 1, 2006 3:08 PM
    Comment #137305

    My spelling is not perfect but lets look at these issues.the african americans for the most part were forced here and were sold by there own leaders into slavery. that does not justify us inslaving them but does make a point.You also have millions of chineses people whom gave every thing to human traficers to get here to still work and live in sweat shops right here then you have all others hispanic arib jewish and lets not forget the true american indians we put them threw hell then putm on reservations look at the japanese americans during ww2 they were americans to and even after being sent to interment camps still fought for america against germany so lets do take a true look at ourselves.And think god for those brave and coragouse tuskegee airman lets do take a good long look in the mirror it not a pretty site

    Posted by: allen stephens at April 1, 2006 3:17 PM
    Comment #137307

    I aplogise for my bluntness what can we do as a nation to unite all these masses of people in a way that will make us as a nation stronger.i put to ya if your family was hungrey you wouldnt take a 12 dollar an hour job if it ment providing for your loved ones. see its your option to compete for work just like its everyones job.For years the uniouns have bleed our corps dry my god you wonder why you go to buy a car and pay so much mabe they would give up 5 dollars an hour outa there 30 dollar and hour job to reduce prices and how much unioun dues do they pay for someone to open ther mouths when they could save money and use there own

    Posted by: allen stephens at April 1, 2006 3:32 PM
    Comment #137311


    We have an untapped job market…and that is those individuals in our jails who have committed crimes who have 4 squares a day, an exercise routine, television, bedding, leisure activities. I say recuit them to do the jobs “Americans will not do” like cleaning the dog crap out of my back yard and send illegal aliens out of our country and build a wall in the southern border to keep them out until they are able to petition and enter our country legally.

    I am not against immagrants, as I am of Irish decent. I just beleive people should respect the established rule of law. If we do not control our borders, we are looking at another 911 because of it.

    Posted by: Paul at April 1, 2006 3:56 PM
    Comment #137313

    I’m going to repost here what I posted in the blue column:

    If my understanding is right, having broken the law, illegal aliens are to be deported. Why are we not doing that? Just put them back over the line, it’s how they got here.

    Another question I have is, for anyone who lives and works in an area where there are illegal aliens, how many of you report them? How many of you follow up and make noise if they are not deported? This is not to put the burden just on those living in the area, but those of us elsewhere can’t do it.

    Catch and release is for fish isn’t it?

    Posted by: womanmarine at April 1, 2006 4:01 PM
    Comment #137318

    Okay…let me jump in here with some ignorance, or stupidity…however you want to define it. For the most part, I agree with employer fines, no paths to citizenship to reward illegal behaviour, sending back those we identify as being here illegally, and turning back at the border all that are stopped. You have special interest groups camped out along the river handing out water and food…!!! along with maps on how to finish the trip ! But we also find Fox sitting down there, fat, dumb and happy, counting the coffers of American $$ in the economy. According to the Governor of New Mexico, “we” contribute to approximately 30% of Mexico’s economy. Hell, Fox likes it sooo good that he hands out brochures telling people the best way to get in here and where to go after they’ve made it. Why can’t we impose some kind of sanctions against him…take away part of NAFTA or whatever….??? So, okay, I finally got to the stupid part……but not many things we may try can be effective as long as he encourages the behavior…….laughing all the way to the treasury!

    Posted by: Sandra Davidson at April 1, 2006 4:16 PM
    Comment #137319

    I don’t knoa about anyone else here, but I’m completely against any kind of national ID card system. Every chance the government has to regulate our lives, observe our movements and track us, they take. Ever wonder about all the security cameras in the nations capital?

    I know, there are those who say that if you don’t do anything wrong, you don’t have anything to worry about. Well, I say the government has no business disrupting the lives of its citizens, and that it is our responsibility to stand up for our liberties rather than simply letting everything to us.

    Posted by: iandanger at April 1, 2006 4:16 PM
    Comment #137328

    D.A.N, I have to wonder if calling the same people that one is asking to change their behavior “stupid” is a productive approach? :)

    Posted by: David R. Remer at April 1, 2006 4:35 PM
    Comment #137329

    I am sure it is been posted before, but there are several steps that can be taken to lessen the impact of illegal immigration regardless of ethnicity.

    1- Secure the borders-North,South,East and West. No wall just diligence.

    2- eliminate the automatic citizenship for those born here with alien parents.

    3- eliminate the public funding of health and education for those non citizens

    4- empty the jails of illegal immigrants and ship them out.

    5-empower local authorities to help determine citizenship during routine actions.

    6-begin imposing large fees-not fines on those engaged in hiring and recruiting illegals.

    7-remove all funding from cities and areas that defiantly proclaim amnesty zones

    8-Tax all monies leaving the country (Orlandi Valuta for example-for those of us on the southern border area)

    9-Require english as the national language-learn it or lump it. No federal, state or local government entity should be posting anything in a foreign language. Embassys across the world provide translators if needed. Teach languages in school-very good. I will have my kids take a language or two. but english is the ticket in this country.

    Attrition will take care of many that are here now.

    Then, Set up a guest worker program stations outside of the borders and document and classify those wanting in. Determing job need and status. Barcode the id cards, make them pay income tax and a special work permit tax to help offset the monitoring costs and keep an Eye on them. (if they take and pass the steps to be a citizen, then they are treated like crap like the rest of us working stiffs)

    Then, as a nation, quite with the pampered kids, prisoner etc, and get them back to work in some of the menial tasks. It was good for me and will be for my kids when they get old enough.

    If you want to knock on the border doors and enter as a citizen or follow the legal and correct path to citizenship-WELCOME and HOW CAN WE HELP?-after all we are AMERICANS.

    Iandanger- right on with the ID cards. That should be up to each states DL.

    Posted by: Scottp at April 1, 2006 4:43 PM
    Comment #137334


    I’m sure the MExicans would absolutely LOVE for NAFTA to ENTIRELY removed. They are getting royally screwed by NAFTA. Just as a for instance, we OVER produce agriculturally. We also PAY our farmers to plant or not plant. We then take excesses produced here and sell them, under freedom of NAFTA, at prices so low they are killing agricultural business in Mexico.

    I’ll blow your mind again - OUR TRUCKING COMPANIES ARE FAR MORE DANGEROUS. That’s a fact.

    As for the other things you said, like Fox handing out brochures or us amounting to %30 percent of their economy…your just wrong. You spouting paranoia that has no basis in fact. Further, regardless of the amount of money being sent across the border, have you considered the value the labor they leave here? …how ‘bout the value of the labor they get ripped off of being paid for by major homebuilders on this side? What you are saying is nothing more than a form of COMPARATIVE GREED. It’s as though you are screaming at a younger sibling, “Look what so-and-so’s got that I don’t think is fair.”

    Consider, just for a moment, the Bucareli agreement. WE imposed it on Mexico when they were in the throws of their revolution immediately after WWI. Before the agreement, Mexico had a thriving industry making airplanes, among other things. Their bi-planes were good, and well priced and they produced them leading up to and including the WWI years when they themselve were in the middle of domestic unrest. The agreement required that Mexico must not engage in any industry in competition with the US. MUCH of their industry died in order to prevent the US from further interference in prolonging the revolution in Mexico.

    So, I for one, don’t want to hear this paranoic, fear mongering greedy sillyness about how much we are ‘losing’ from the Mexicans who want to come here. God bless ‘em. I hope they come in suficient numbers to increase the percentage of future Americans who APPRECIATE this country and want to help OUR country do GREAT and GOOD things in the world.


    Posted by: RGF at April 1, 2006 5:17 PM
    Comment #137335

    I think if I hear Bush say Americans won’t do these jobs one more time, I will start my own protest. You can’t tell me construction is a job not wanted. Or how about part-time fast-food jobs that high school kids apply for, but are not available. Gee, nobody wants to work in the High-Tech industry. Stop lying you SOB, it’s about cheap wages so your buddies can enjoy the luxury they so deserve off the backs of all working people in America. Keep the American People divided and by all means, conquered.

    Posted by: Barbara at April 1, 2006 5:18 PM
    Comment #137341

    RGF….have you ever considered moving to Mexico?? And would you mind adding sources to your information…..?! I think you need to pay more attention to statistics…we are foundering in so many areas it will take many years to recover….and just what are our trucking companies more dangerous than???

    Posted by: Sandra Davidson at April 1, 2006 6:28 PM
    Comment #137343
    D.A.N, I have to wonder if calling the same people that one is asking to change their behavior “stupid” is a productive approach? :)

    David, you are right. It doesn’t help.

    The thing is, I am one of those stupid people too.

    So, I am mad at myself too.

    I voted for bush, and some of the other worthless bums in congress, that have everything so BUBARed. I got sucked into the petty partisan warfare (that incumbents fuel), and fell for all their lies for years.

    When I look at the irresponsibility, rampant corruption, bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians, forcing states, schools, and Americans to accomodate illegal aliens, not to mention all of the other results of their negligence, it is enough make anyone angry (for those paying attention….most Americans aren’t).

    Sorry, that was wrong. I should acknowledged that I was just as stupid. And, there are many like yourself that don’t belong in that category, who for many years recognized that both parties are not all that vastly different, government is corrupt, and always trying to grow more corrupt, and voters have themselves to thank for it. So, to be accurate, I should have said: too many Americans (including myself) are stupid.

    : )

    Posted by: d.a.n at April 1, 2006 6:37 PM
    Comment #137347

    Just wanted to comment on the remarks about the Mexican truckers being more dangerous than American. I worked in a security job for several years which permitted me to come in contact with Mexican, American and Canadian truckers. Any truck traveling on American highways must meet USDOT standards. And the drivers must be properly licensed. The only difference I ever detected among these guys was their accents. In fact, the Mexican drivers that came up through Laredo (Texas) and the Canadian drivers (mostly out of Quebec and Manitoba) were, for the most part, a lot cleaner and more polite than the American drivers. This wasn’t so in every instance, of course, but in general, I stand by that statement.

    Posted by: slowthinker at April 1, 2006 6:52 PM
    Comment #137349

    Curtis, go back to your buddies at

    Kathy, the things you state are false. We did NOT go to war on false information. We went to war b/c of resolution 1441. It is not an impeachable offense that the laws on immigration aren’t enforced. That is a question for the agencies in charge of such enforcement. The President can’t possibly micro-manage every solitary moment in time of every 290 million people’s lives in the US. Also, if it is impeachable, then the last 4 Presidents should have been impeached also…oh wait one WAS!! but that was for better reasons like actual high crimes! I like the wall idea, and I also like the buying of Mexico idea..haha. Either one works.

    Can you imagine being an illegal immigrant in Mexico? You’d never see daylight ever again! And what do we do? Give them a court-date and release them…KNOWING they won’t show up. It’s kinda like fishing “catch and release”.

    Posted by: Robert at April 1, 2006 7:02 PM
    Comment #137352

    Slowthinker, I work for a transpotation department. We do a LOT of work every year and I KNOW about truck drivers. I don’t like them much, they are dirty, sometimes mindless, and mean. We have many bottles of pee on the interstate and the exit ramps b/c they are too lazy to actually go into the bathroom or at least put the bottles in a dumpster or something. We had one that got upset at us for daring to “slow him down” for the safety of workers on the roads that he took a bottle of pee and poured it out trying to pour it on several of the workers for the contractor. There ARE good drivers out there I’m sure, but just as a teacher remembers the “bad kids” more than the good ones we only see the bad ones out there.

    Posted by: Robert at April 1, 2006 7:08 PM
    Comment #137355


    I’ve heard of the pee bottle problem you mentioned and it is disgusting. As is the problem with dirty drivers. We’ve had to practically fumigate our office after some of those drivers left, male and female. And most of them were American drivers.

    There’s no excuse for that, with all the great truckstops out there that offer showers and bathrooms. Drivers will tell you they don’t have time to stop and that they’ve been on the road for two weeks.

    I had a drill sergeant in basic training that used to tell us that just because we had to live like pigs didn’t mean we had to smell like pigs.

    Posted by: Slowthinker at April 1, 2006 7:29 PM
    Comment #137356

    Since the illegal people that are here are not going to go back voluntarily, we must put the wall up, beginning with the Mexican-American border. Once the wall is up and with the additional BP on site, it appears that the next task will be to fine the employers an amount that would make it prohibitive to hire illegal persons; like a fine that is equal to the profit the company on each illegal person, plus the amout of taxes not paid, and this is for the first violation. The second violation carries a factor of two, the third violation carries a factor of 3 and so on until the beaners get the message and find that the cost of doing business that way is not for them. After we deal with the employers, we start rounding up the illegal persons, and give them the fastest way possible to their native country and in the process them for prints and dna. When they are cought a second time then it should mean mandatory prison time. This is serious business and must be dealt with from a possition of strength and principle. Additional leverages could be applied to the nation of Mexico. Like reducing sharply the foreign aid to them, assessing them X number of barrels of oil per illegal returned, take the money we dump into their back yard and teach them to grow their own produce, build their own product in their own factories, sell their own wares in their own stores, and sell their drugs to somebody other than to the United States. If all of those measures I presented above were applied. We could move on to the next American problem.

    Posted by: tomh at April 1, 2006 7:36 PM
    Comment #137357

    The problem is that “thanks to the liberals” there are just too many insentives to not work a steady job in the USA. I know too many people who when giving the choice of working or getting unemployment compensation along with food stamps, etc will always chose the easy road.

    I liken it to a stray cat in the neighborhood. If you put out a dish of milk and a little food every morning for the stray to feast on, it will no longer hunt the mice in the field.

    My home was destroyed during the hurricanes in Florida the summer before last. Of course the first thing to be done after is clean up. It was Mexicans who did this work in my neighborhood, because they were the only work force willing to do this, giving the conditions of working outside in heat and with no electricity, etc.

    Now, we are still waiting for the re-building, (year and a half later) which is hung up by white lawyers, insurance adjusters and builders. It would have been much cheaper and quicker to just higher some Mexican builders to get the job done.

    I work on a ship (oil tankers) and most of the un-licensed workers are from Central American countries. I have been in this industry for over 20 years and have never seen a “young American male” start out in this industry. This industry is dominated by immigrants and older men nearing retirement.

    The USA needs these immigrants in order to compete with the likes of China and India in the labor market. They are the only ones willing to work at jobs that are hard and pay less.

    Posted by: Everett Hatton at April 1, 2006 7:58 PM
    Comment #137359

    I have a practical plan to handle the transition to a legal immigration system. 1) in order to ease transition to legal workforce feds sell permits to employers in key industries that allows them to hire illegals - farming comes to mind. This will help ease the transition else we have crops rot on the vine. 2) All employers caught hiring illegals without permits get a heavy penalty - loss of business, fines, prison.
    3) All illegals legally employed via one of above permits get to stay as long as employed.

    Non-permitted illegals get limited time to get out of US. This will be difficult to achieve but I would hope that if the jobs dry up at least the in-flow will slow down.

    In order to get jobless immigrants to leave we may need to limit access to welfare, very limited medical care, no more free school, no more automatic citizenship for child born in US of illegal parents.

    When every legal citizen has decent health care, schooling and access to decent wages then we’ll reconsider charity in this area.

    In order to ween the employers off of the illegal workers the cost of the permits should increase each year until the price of illegals roughly equals the price of legal labor, which will be increasing due to labor shortage.

    The fees will go to training US born underclass citizens in the basic skills required to replace the illegals. As the wages for low skill labor goes up these former underclass (underpaid or welfare) people will find they can make a decent living. I have confidence that given access to decent paying jobs many current welfare roll people will be attracted - benefiting society in ways hard to imagine (pre welfare state-1960ish social fabric (marriage, Dads, fewer drugs, things like that).

    The US underclass had paid a heavy price for illegal immigration - with Dems and Republicans both to blame. In most other Western countries, like the U.K., the spread of wages is lower than the US because they don’t have the endless supply of low wage labor flowing over the border with inpunity.

    I’ve had enough, how about you?

    Posted by: MC at April 1, 2006 8:03 PM
    Comment #137363

    Why is noone talking about the millions of dollars farmers and contractors save by hiring these illegals? Most red states have now clue as to how this affects them, ergo they are only reacting via bumpersticker politics.

    Posted by: shelly at April 1, 2006 8:30 PM
    Comment #137368

    I agree that the first thing we must do is secure the border, and I mean really secure it. If necessary high smooth concrete walls, and ground monitors for tunnels. It is like a broken dam, you must stop the flow of the water, before working on the water that is already present.

    Identifications that includes finger prints.

    NO Longer will we sell automobiles or money orders, or allow bank transfers, or rent housing, or sell housing without proper legal paper work.

    No longer will there be automatic citizenship for those born here with alien parents.

    Punishment of individuals that promote illegal immigration, we will use the Rico Act to seize their homes, autos, bank assets and etc.

    We should also, revoke Nationalized Citizenship, to individuals that commit major crimes, publicly state allegiance to another country or demostrate allegiance to another country by voice, song, or word.

    The Internal Revenue Service should not allow Earned Income Tax Credits to Nationalized Citizens, unless a memeber of their family has successfullly served in our Armed Services for four years.

    SSI should be available only after 20 years of full-time employment. And no more direct deposits of income tax refunds, or soical security payments outside the U.S.

    Posted by: Dr. Alton K. Easton, PhD at April 1, 2006 9:06 PM
    Comment #137372

    Its all about power and money.If legislation passes there will be hell in the south western states because illegal alien supporters will use street terrorism to send a message to all!!!

    Posted by: peter at April 1, 2006 9:21 PM
    Comment #137382

    Scottp summed it up for me. Thanks Scott.

    If we build any part of this wall we have to do it with those on the south side and use there Comex cement and their wages

    Posted by: George at April 1, 2006 11:38 PM
    Comment #137392

    Is it any wonder that the government can’t decide what to do? No one here can agree!!!

    This will be fairly long, but I’ve put a great deal of thought into it.

    I’m going to play the ‘Devil’s Advocate’ for a minute.

    A wall - shades of the Berlin Wall.
    Who will build this gigantic wall? Illegal aliens probably.

    National ID’s - who actually is willing to give the government more power? We can’t even get guns registered. If you think wire-tapping is bad, just wait to be registerd yourself. I for one WILL NOT support a National ID, nor will I allow myself to be fingerprinted, etc. for one.
    It’s the principal of the thing. Just like I hate that we have allowed wire-tapping for US citizens. IT TOO is matter of pricipal.
    (Ask me about my chewing gum theory sometime)

    Ship out all of them - ALL of them? (regardless of where they came from: Cuba, Mexico, the middle East,etc.) Where? How? How are we going to actually locate them? It’s not as if they will be standing in line waiting to go…

    Insist they learn English? That’s not a bad idea, but who will teach them,(the Adults)and when(time)are they going to learn it? American English is extremely hard to learn. How many of us here (including myself)can’t spell, use basic grammar, or even proofread what they write? That’s like leading a horse to water - but you can not make him drink.

    As for the jobs Americans’ won’t take - I’ve worked in the men’s ward of mental hospital for 2 years as my first job. When I say I was frequently up to my elbows in shit I mean it - literally. Minium wage doesn’t cut it, for most Americans. We always want MORE.
    However many of the Latinos have found ways around that finacial dilema…

    I’ve also managed several duplexes - numerous times I’ve had to get them evicted simply because instead of the 4-6 persons allowed by the city zoning, there were often 12,14,16 people sharing a tiny 500 foot square duplex.
    Shift work is a blessing for them, so is sharing the rent.

    Oh and the idea of buying Mexico isn’t even worth laughing at!!!!! Although I think\hope the uth/or was joking!!!

    I think I’ve posted enough obsticles to make my negative points.

    A few minutes with some more helpful ideas. I hope.

    1. Build a wall, fort, Base on the border. And shoot anyone that appears to be crossing the line. Personally I like the idea of a base - one where the military is outside a lot, shooting stuff, training for wars, etc. A few bomb testing sites might not be such a bad idea. (We could do that and pretend our soldiers are in Iraq, while there’re really at home, reasonably safe and sound)

    2. Allow only immigrants that already know English to be considered to cross legally. Any immigrants.

    3. Allow only the ones who are skilled and can fill a working position. In other words try to follow the immigration laws already on the books.

    4. Force anyone who comes across legally, or the few that might make it illegally to see a nurse or doctor. AT their expense.

    5. Give every female of child bearing age a Norplant injection to pervent unwanted babies. This one is particularly hard for me to suggest, but it would cut out a lot of problems.

    6. Give everyone the necessary vaccines to prevent a surge in TB, Measles, etc.
    Send the illegal immgrants home after they’ve been to the clinic. If necessary they can clean the clinic to paid for their share of expenses.
    At least they won’t carry more germs or babies back to their homes. Might help out the countries they live in too.

    Limit the number of immgrants from every country that can come in - oops that’s already a policy. AGAIN efforce the laws!!!!

    Provide schools only for those who come over legally - adults and children.

    If after 7 years (as it says in the Constituion) they still can not pass the citizenship exam - SEND them BACK.

    REMOVE ALL SIGNS documents, etc. that are in Spanish, French, etc. No loads allowed or credit given until they are Citizens. I’ve also taught English as a Second Language, and a student received Master Card app. He was in heaven - “America very good place - it gives me $500”!!! I finally got him to understand the idea of interst and credit.

    Punish the Employers who hire illegal aliens. Right now it is profitable for them to hire them. Give them a 3 stikes and and you’re closed punishment. First offense, shut them down completely for 3 days. Second offense shut them down for a week, fine them $20,000 a day for each ilegal found working for them. Third, shut them down either pernamently or for several months. The legally employed will take care of the rest of the problem, especially if their jobs are at stake.

    Other immigrants have managed to join our country and helped to make it better - afterall, all of us were at one time or another immigrants, or related to immgrants.

    The Spanish,English Dutch,American Indians, Italians,Irish,Orientals,Russians,Mexicians, Scotish,Blacks,etc. have all brought something with them that has made us a better country.

    Times have changed dramatically since most of our families came over here. With changing times we need to upgrade our position on immigrants. It is not fair to single our the Latinos, but they simply picked the wrong decade to come over.

    Posted by: Linda H. at April 2, 2006 1:56 AM
    Comment #137393

    I almost forgot, I agree that we should empty our jails, and ship all the immgrant offenders, legal or not back to where they came from.

    And of course we must do Background checks on everyone who comes it.

    Let them have the National ID Cards to show legal resident status, but limit it to not more than 7 years - time to become citizens.

    Posted by: Linda H. at April 2, 2006 3:00 AM
    Comment #137419

    Here is a list of some of the jobs native born Americans won’t do:

    *Garbage collector: What right minded American would want to pick up disgusting garbage all day and deliver it to the dump? (Oh yeah, Americans do this job because it pays a good wage).

    *Dockworker: What right minded American would want to be dealing with freight down at a smelly, dirty waterside warehouse? (Oh yeah, Americans do this job because it pays a good wage).

    *Doctor: What right minded American would want to deal with sick, dying or diseased people all day. And those surgons… who would want to have to deal with blood and guts all day. (Oh yeah, Americans do this job because it pays a good wage).

    I even saw a program on TV called America’s Worst Jobs where a deodorant company paid people to sniff people’s underarms. When asked why they did the job, one woman interviewed said “Because it pays well!”

    If we want to discuss the issue of immigration and illegal immigration we need to be honest about the fact that Americans will do ANY job for a good wage. We don’t need immigration or illegal immigration because Americans won’t do a job.

    The real questions we should be discussing are the following. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but these seem to be the key questions we need to honestly debate.

    1) Will limiting immigration and illegal immigration cause American businesses to move overseas? I guess for some industries that can be moved (factory assembly work) the answer is yes they will move to cheaper labor countries if they don’t have cheap labor in America. In other cases like with restaurants, construction, maid service, nannies and gardening service, the answer is that these industries cannot be moved out of the country and so if the wages for entry level jobs increases to a higher rate, Americans will do these jobs.

    2) Would we rather have higher wages for entry level workers or cheaper workers to do entry level jobs? I for one cannot afford a maid service or gardening service that employs legal workers since it costs too much. Believe me, I have priced it out here in CA. I also rather have a lower priced meal at a restaurant. If businesses respond to me the consumer, they hire low-cost illegal immigrants. This means that there are Americans citizens out there that are not getting this entry level work since they demand higher wages.

    3) Do we need more workers? America usually creates about 2M jobs per year. Our native born population is flat due to the fact that most native born families only have 1-2 kids. If the economy continue to create 2M jobs per year, who will be there to fill them?

    4) Are immigrants and illegal immigrants helping or huritng businesses? We see in countries with surplus labor that productivity growth is low since it is cheaper to get cheap workers to do something than it is to innovate and become more productive. By giving US companies all this cheap immigrant & illegal immigrant labor, are we hurting them in the long run by not forcing them to innovate and become more productive?

    Posted by: Dirkp at April 2, 2006 11:48 AM
    Comment #137466

    There is a simple answer to the “jobs we won’t take” statement. End welfare. Period. If your other alternative is starving. There ISN”T a “job you won’t take.

    This is another reason why SOCIALISM ALWAYS FAILS. Need an example? See France.

    Posted by: David C. at April 2, 2006 7:35 PM
    Comment #137480

    This comment is mainly for the person that commented on Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart may be a company that tries to save money wherever possible, but Wal-Mart is far from greedy. I work for the company and I know that they take care of thier employees. Now I know there will be people out there that do not agree with me, but it does not change the fact that Wal-Mart is the only company that I know of that you can start out as a cashier and become an executive responsible for over hundreds of stores. The reason there are so many turn-overs is because employees can not handle the stress. I hope that I have not offended anyone, but facts are facts. Please get your story straight before you make a statement about Wal-Mart.

    About the immigration situation;
    I think that all the Mexicans need to go to Mexico and make changes there. If all the Mexicans would go to thier country and force Mexico to change, like we did 230 years ago for our country, then they would get what they need from thier poeple!

    Posted by: Ginger at April 2, 2006 9:18 PM
    Comment #137501

    ginger, i wish you well with your wall-mart endeviour, sounds like you will do very well at wall-mart they like your no kind of thinking or i mean that kind thinking! btw why all the stress? if it is such a great place to work like you said seems like a lot of people would stay there. btw ginger i hope you understand you need a college education to be ( a executive responsible for hundreds of stores) or did you mean a executive responsible for hundreds of bathrooms! there is no such thing as rags to riches unless you win the lottery or inherit it or steal it or have a good education and work your butt off for it. good luck.

    Posted by: mb at April 2, 2006 10:58 PM
    Comment #137558

    Ginger could go to work at the local hardware for minimum wage…or work at a resturaunt for sub minimum wage.
    I am not rich but also wear no rags. Riches are relative to your perspective.
    My point earlier wasn’t that I was illegal. I never was. It was that my first jobs while a youth on welfare were for under the table wages. The farmers, a couple body shops and drywallers hired me for cash. When others saw how hard I worked, they hired me legally for high wages. Since then when the job dried up, I started my own business.
    Enforce existing laws even if it takes walls and guards, Let free enterprise take care of the rest. Whiners stay poor and innovaters succeed

    Posted by: kruser at April 3, 2006 7:21 AM
    Comment #137570

    who ever posted that 32% of illegals are on welfare and 29% of prisoners are illegal, needs to post where that info came from. My internet research says you are are a liar.

    Posted by: joe greene at April 3, 2006 8:39 AM
    Comment #137583

    Thanks to the damn liberals, I lost my job to a wetback. We need a fence now! These mexican criminals come over, take my job, rape our children and take all our money. Were’s my oppertunity! Im an American! What about me! These wetbaks come over and shoot up our shools and sell drugs to my kids and rob my store. There terrorists. They hate us. When I was ingured on the job last year, the hospital made me wait because a spick was in my bed. There going to take us over. They have no money and have kids faster than white pople. Pretty soon there will be no more whilte people in America.

    Thanks Dawn for telling the truth about whats happening to white people. We have to fight for our own and fight for our America back and kick out the coloreds! Thank God for truth tellers like Dawn.

    Posted by: AngryAmericanPatriot at April 3, 2006 9:46 AM
    Comment #137591

    My 2 cents…

    I fully support making it a Felony to hire an Illegal Alien… If there were no jobs here to be had then they would not have a reason to be here.

    I also fully support taking away every bit of their “rights” to free health care, schools, etc… No jobs, no free health care etc… That does not sound like a nice place to be if I were an illegal alien.

    Lastly, I fully support the idea that you are not an American just because you are born on our soil… The parent (or parent) should not just be able to walk across the border and to a hospital just to have a baby and not only get the hospital visit free but also that baby is now a citizen? Not right IMO.

    All that said there should be better ways for all of these folks to be able to come here and contribute, but do it legally. A temporary work visa is one idea. At least that way we could collect taxes from them just like the rest of us. Someone here on this “visa” could send their kids to school here, could get health care, etc… Because they are paying taxes for it. No problems with that from my end.

    If these things are in place then there would be no reason for them to come in illegally. Which means that those that still are probably have more sinister motives in mind (not just a job).

    Posted by: BradM at April 3, 2006 10:32 AM
    Comment #137615

    Today an AP release by Jennifer Talhelm has an article on El Salvador illegal aliens. It tells of a recent flight of 44 men and 5 women being deported back to El Salvador. The last paragraph of the article that he was making $24@hour as a carpenter. I can find a minimum 100 people who will take that job.

    Posted by: tomh at April 3, 2006 12:04 PM
    Comment #137688

    I believe the following letter that I sent to President Bush sums up the illegal immigration problem fairly well in Texas:

    Dear Mr. President,
    I am a Republican who loves you and your family dearly. However, I have a bone to pick with you. I know it has been a while since you actually lived in Texas, so it’s about time for a reality check. We are literally drowning beneath the onrush of illegal immigrants down here in Texas, and I find you largely at fault.
    I urge you to work hard to stop the spread of illegal immigrants. The last few days in the news, we have been treated to hundreds of marching Hispanic students – who walked out of class – to demonstrate about something they knew little or nothing about. Large La Raza [don’t get me started on La Raza] and Mexican flags and posters were there, and, walking with a La Raza gang was one of our Hispanic legislators [you guessed it – a Democrat] who stated, “This is as American as Apple pie. This is as American as The Boston Tea Party.” Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the participants in the Boston Tea Party were largely concerned with taxation without representation. Illegal immigrants want just the opposite - they want representation without taxation. We would all like to have that, but then, who would pay for it?
    There was not one opposing view presented – zero – zilch - in two days of hearing about the protests. Why can’t reporters report on the outrage of hard working Americans who pay taxes all their lives, only to see it squandered away to illegal immigrants? That would be newsworthy. Not a bunch of stupid kids who don’t even know why they are marching. This infuriates me.
    A news reporter coached one of the demonstrating students saying, “Are immigrants just doing jobs that Americans no longer want to do?” The girl simply looked dumbfounded. Apparently, her schoolteacher had not adequately coached the girl on this point. I say this because the reporter later noted that teachers had instructed the students to write a letter to their congressman. What the reporter did not say was that – in all probability - what the teachers actually did was to encourage the students to walk out. There is no way I will ever believe that this was spontaneous - not after seeing the ignorance demonstrated by these kiddos.
    Rush Limbaugh once stated that Illegal immigrants were doing jobs that Americans no longer wanted to do. While I love Rush, I must disagree with him on this point because it is simply not true. The truth of the matter is this: Immigrants are doing the jobs that Americans can no longer afford to do because they [illegals] have driven the wages to an unnatural low. Honest Americans would be forced to live 4-5 families to a house [or more] and work for $4-$5 dollars an hour [or less]. We simply can’t do this. At least I can’t. Maybe you can. I have to make enough money to pay the taxes necessary to support the Illegal immigrants while they get their dump truck businesses up and running, pay their medicare and welfare, pay for their children’s tutors in school and then, hopefully, I will have enough to pay my own bills. I’m not being facetious when I say this.
    Last week, while stopped at a red light, I watched a series of six [6] dump trucks turn in front of me from the lane facing me. As they made the turn in front of me, I plainly read six [6] different Mexican names – one on each truck. Later, at the same intersection, I saw two more trucks, with different Mexican names on the sides of the trucks. Why am I saying this? Because of stories like the following: A friend of mine confided to me that his friend tried to obtain a loan to buy a truck [18-wheeler-type] and the banker refused, saying, “I’m sorry, but I can’t loan you the money. “Now if your last name was Sanchez or Gomez, I could loan you enough to buy 6 trucks, even though your credit is better that theirs.” While this may not be a 100 percent accurate representation, it’s not far off the mark. It is a sad indictment on America and a cruel hoax that is being played upon the American taxpayer and worker. Help! We need to send them back and level the playing field! Stand up for your fellow Americans and Texans.

    Sincerely suffocating in Texas,
    David Pillow

    Posted by: David Pillow at April 3, 2006 6:56 PM
    Comment #137821

    The racism and bigotry I’ve read in these comments explains a lot of the anti Immigrant rhetoric I’m reading.

    I live in Houston and have no problem with the hispanic people here. I am white, Scottish-English descent. I work for a civil engineering company in the construction industry. There is a large illleal immigrant population working at mostly well above minimum wage/ no benefits in the construction industry. There are numerous whites and blacks as well. Even a few women.

    Yes,there are numerous hispanics on WIC, they compose a large portion of the underclass in houston. There is an education deficit in the Hispanic community. Most don’t graduate High School. Most of the illegals work. They are not on welfare. There are numerous whites and blacks on welfare, also. It is always related to education, drug addiction and alcoholism.

    There is a large middleclass hispanic population, too. Most hispanics here are ciitzens.

    This used to be a part of Mexico. Some whites moved here on land speculation 150 years ago, decided they were no longer Mexican, killed a lot of Mexicans, killed a lot of Indians, and hung blacks, and with US military support (unofficial, of course) declared themselves Texians, and later voted themselves Americans.

    Now those dirty Mexicans are on the precipice of outpopulating the whites in the border states. Politicians have used terror threats as a tool to manipulate racist feelings in these states to spur their base to vote. Corporations enjoy avoiding the blame for screwing their workforce by shifting the blame to those dirty job stealing mexicans.

    If we fear the Arabs and the Mexicans, we won’t notice that the corporations have bought the Dems and the Reps whose further erode the rights of the average joe and increase the wealth and the power of the corporate gliterati.

    They hung Moussolini, but his form of facism is alive and well. Long live the coporation. What’s good for Exxon, is good for America.

    Posted by: Jack Mohammedoff at April 4, 2006 4:34 AM
    Comment #138041


    Posted by: FA STEPHENS at April 4, 2006 8:15 PM
    Comment #138049

    I think we all agree that it is essentially a fancy way of saying “they work for cheaper.” Because really, if you pay anyone enough money, there is not a job they won’t do.

    Whether or not it is a good idea to have cheap labor in America is debatable. I, for one, am in favor of it.

    Posted by: Zeek at April 4, 2006 8:33 PM
    Comment #138136

    McCain just said recently that Americans would be unwilling to pick lettuce for $50 per hr. I’m a carpenter with 24 yrs. experience and I’m LUCKY to get $12 per hr.

    If you have lettuce that needs picking, and your paying $50 per hr., please, let me know. I’ll migrate.

    Posted by: jcaxe at April 5, 2006 8:58 AM
    Comment #138325

    OK, no one commented on my post. I feel slighted:)

    Let me try again.

    The laws of supply and demand apply to labor just like the price of eggs. More labor (Mexicans) = lower prices (wages) in certain job categories.

    The most effective and economical way for gov’t to affect outcomes is via a targetted tax. (tax cigarettes — get less smoking). This doesn’t require a lot of Feds to administer. Gathering up 15 or so million illegals is not practical. We have to find economical way to get the net effect.

    Mexicans will work for less for same skill level because they can’t make as much money at home (they have a screwed up country of their own due to corruption and other reasons, so they come here). They live a low cost lifestyle while in US out of desperation. True Americans have difficulty making such sacrifices and should not have to.

    If you artificially raise price of illegal Mexican labor via a “illegal labor tax” then there will be less demand for illegal labor, and more demand for legal labor. Net result will be better wages for legal labor and less demand for illegal labor. The incentive to hire Mexicans will decrease and in the face of fewer jobs the incentive to migrate will decrease.

    A phased in “tax” on immigrant labor in one to three or so years will create a smooth transition to a legal work force and less illegal immigration.

    The tax would be assessed to all who employ illegals on an hourly basis. The incentive to collect and pay the tax would be contractor and skill trade licensure law, and health related laws for restaurants (not to imply illegals are less healthy but mechanism for licenses is in place — so use it). You want to hold a license to operate a restaurant, be a licensed builder, … then you better collect the tax, or gov’t takes away your license. In the short term business will pay the tax due to lack of replacement workers, but eventually replacements will be found at an appropriate, market driven higher wage. This keeps crops from rotting on the vine.

    Posted by: MC at April 6, 2006 12:05 AM
    Comment #138450

    It just saddens me how divided we are and how egotistical and inhumane we are becoming, d.a.n. cited this website:

    … as a way to prove illegal immigrants are a burden: if you read the third bullet after you start reading this article, it states clearly that the federal deficit caused by illegals is due to the fact that they do not have a high school diploma and therefore they make little money, not because of their legal status or the use of the public services, meaning if anyone else black american, asiatic americans or less fortunate white american citizens were doing those jobs they would get paid those same rates to keep the system stable and therefore they would be poor and forced to use those services anyway, people…realize we are attacking the poor and the defenseless, way to go america!….if you go back to your roots you will eventually get to an ancestor of yours finding his way here making little money and working his self off for you to sit right now in front of your computer critizicing others doing the same for their own people… I apologize to you all.. I forgot back then it was a legal thing to do….common you all.
    We have too much technology that building a wall is senseless, heat detectors more presence in the border and end once and for all the word illegal let us all be equal, we would all pay taxes and live in peace not in a quiet war, where hate is injected to us everyday based on skin color or country of procedence…

    Posted by: R.V. at April 6, 2006 2:18 PM
    Comment #140427
    R.V. wrote: …where hate is injected to us everyday based on skin color or country of procedence.

    Anyone that tries to turn the issue of illegal immigration and all the serious issues stemming from it, as you just did above, is racist. Trying to play the race card, when race has nothing to do with it, is disgusting. R.V., That is what it truly saddening.

    Why do you make so many excuses for illegal aliens?
    Why do you demonize Americans that want secure borders and illegal immigration stopped?
    The U.S. is not for the public use of the rest of the world no more than your home is for the public use by anyone that isn’t invited.
    If you think the rights of foreigners, that illegally trespass our borders trump the rights of a sovereign nation to secure their own border, then why don’t you allow illegal aliens to come into your home, make themselves at home, settle in, maybe invite a few friends?
    Should they get your permission first?
    What? What’s that ?
    No way, you say ? That’s different.
    Ohhhhhh … Ummmm Huh … How revealing.
    Where did your bleedin’ heart benevolence disappear to now?
    See … you don’t want to see the hypocrisy of your bleedin’ heart, wanna-be-benevolent position. Your benevolence stops at your front door.

    Why do you demonize Americans, most of which do not want illegal aliens mistreated ?
    Why do you bring race and color into it?
    Is it because your arguments are so lame and weak ?
    Why do you demonize Americans, most of which just want secure borders, illegal immigration stopped, employers of illegal aliens prosecuted, and end crime and abuse of our welfare, education, Medicare, Social Security, law enforcement, insurance, and prison systems ?

    You think you are so benevolent and humane, but you turn your back on your very own U.S. American citizens.

    That so called bleedin’ heart, wanna-be-benevolent attitude is cowardly.

    • Where is your companssion for the one person murdered every 86 hours
    • Where is your compassion for U.S. citizens that go without healthcare and access to ERs because non-paynig illegal aliens have flooded them?
    • Where is your compassion for the truly needy U.S. citizens that can not get help because 32% of illegal aliens receive welfare ?
    • Where is your compassion for the illegal aliens being lured here for sub-minimum wage jobs, creating an under-class (practically slavery) ?
    • Where is your compassion for the victims and survivors of crimes upon U.S. Citizens by illegal aliens ? A staggering 29% of all prisoners are illegal aliens, and the crime rates are rising fast.
    • Where is your compassion for U.S. Americans who’s lives have been changed forever by illegal aliens that spread disease ? One illegal alien in Santa Barbara, California infected 56 other people with tuberculosis as reported on April 24, 2004, by the Santa Barbara Press-News, “Anatomy of an Outbreak”. Because illegal alien migration into the USA continues unabated for the past 20 years, we now have 16,000 new cases of incurable MDR tuberculosis in the past five years. We suffer 7,000 new cases of leprosy. We tolerate 100,000 new cases of hepatitis “A” in our society. Chagas Disease, which affects 14 million South Americans and kills 50,000 annually, streams across our borders as unchecked thousands of them enter our society.
    • Where is your compassion for the U.S. tax payers that lose many tens of billions per year due to all the numerous problems stemming from illegal aliens?
    • Why do you think the U.S. would crumble without cheap labor? Even if it were true (which it isn’t), is that the best excuse you have? Is that because you don’t want to pay more to have your lawn mowed? Or like Senator Linsey Graham (D-SC) …

      …who says: “as a golfer, I probably benefit from their [illegal aliens] labor.”
      Nevermind that S.C. has the highest rate of violent crime (excluding D.C.), largely due to illegal aliens.

    • Where is your compassion for all of the U.S. policemen murdered by illegal aliens?

    • Where is your compassion for all of the people that do not want to see a repeat of 11-Sep-2001, perpetrated by several illegal aliens ?

    How do you so non-chalantly explain away all of this:

    • Last year, Phoenix, Arizona suffered 57,600 cars stolen by illegal aliens (500,000 illegals in that state) for use in drug smuggling and alien trafficking. If that many cars were stolen daily out of the U.S. Congressional parking lots, we,d see troops on the border within days.
    • Last summer in Boulder, Colorado, eight American daughters suffered rapes by eight illegal aliens who fled to Mexico afterward. All those women were somebody’s daughters and under the age of twenty-two.
    • In Los Angeles with millions of illegal aliens, thousands of drivers roll around the city with little signs that read, “F**K YOU, THIS IS MEXICO.” If thousands of illegal aliens without driver’s licenses rolled around Washington, D.C. daily with those little flashing L.E.D. signs in their back windows, the Beltway Boys would get a different perspective of the glories of “multiculturalism” and “diversity” they shove down our throats by allowing illegal aliens to break our laws.
    • PHOENIX – Television and radio stations began running ads in the Valley last week, paid for by the Coalition United to Secure America, attributing the 45% increase in homicides and 41% increase in home invasions to illegal aliens. Phoenix Police Department reports confirm those figures and Sgt. Tony Morales believes there is no doubt that the statistics are tied to illegal aliens.
    • According to statistics by the Salt Lake City Police Department (and verified by an independent study), 80% of all drug crimes in the City are committed by illegal aliens. In Salt Lake County, the equivalent number is 50%. That’s why Congressman Cannon is on the Immigration Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee. He is working to insure that interior states, like Utah, are not overlooked in the war on illegal immigration.
    • In 2001, 87% of deportable aliens who received run letters disappeared, a number that was even higher-94 percent-if they were from terror-sponsoring countries.
    • 12/31/2002: Six-month figures revealed a 3.3% increase in violent crime in California, including a 16 percent rise in homicides, over the same span in 2001.
    • February 06,2006: The Monitor, According to the Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Assistance, more than a quarter of the approximately 400,000 days spent in the Hidalgo County Jail during the course of the 365-day period belonged to criminal illegal aliens convicted with at least one felony or two misdemeanors. (Days spent in jail during the pre-trial period were counted only if the criminal illegal alien was convicted of the crime.) The Hidalgo County Jail held 3,335 eligible criminal illegal alien inmates for the fiscal year 2005 reporting period, up from 3,136 criminal illegal alien inmates in 2004. These numbers have been confirmed through the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement vetting process, which runs inmate records through a series of databases to verify accuracy. The Hidalgo County jail only has approximately 1,200 beds. Not only do thousands of criminal illegal aliens crowd the jail, but many make repeat appearances.
    • 95% of 1,200 warrants for homicide in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. 66% of 17,000 fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
    • John Mullaly a former NYPD homicide detective, states 70% of the drug dealers and other criminals in Manhattan’s Washington Heights are were illegal aliens.

    R.V. You hypocritically accuse others of racism, while you, yourself, are the very one who injects race, color, and hate (as evidenced by your own statements above). Shame on you.

    Posted by: d.a.n at April 13, 2006 12:34 PM
    Comment #152952

    why cant you be 13 year old and get a job working in a resturaunt.I think that once you are 13 you are old enough to get a job and work up to at least 5 hours a day and get payed 3 dollars per hour.

    Posted by: Heather Harris at May 31, 2006 11:07 AM
    Comment #215056

    If only 29% of America’s jail inmates is ii (illigal immigrants), are they really the cause of most of our problems? Isn’t it really the legal residents, 71%, causing the majority of the problems?! Stop picking straw out of others eyes and get the rafter out of your own people. Intelligence is not shown by making illogical conclusions on unsupporting facts, which actually by that report say that ii residents are more law abiding than legal residents. Any comments made otherwise are a sickening form of prejudice which Americans so proudly say doesn’t exist here. Prove it America.

    Posted by: byrd at April 4, 2007 5:44 PM
    Comment #215061

    To “Angry American Patriot” How American and Patriot are you really? Remember to think twice before you spit. The wind might blow it back in your face. As true history recalls, any and all people residing in the America’s who are not of Indian heritage are technically not American. Yes your own government attest to the fact that “white” people invaded and overtook the land of already existing and established groups of people. “White” people were the illigal immigrants at that time and were embraced and assisted for the most part by the first residents. Should you not then do unto others? And while your digesting that thought don’t forget that “white” is actually a decendent of the European Russian, Greek, Scandinavian, French, Polish, etc. get the point? For reaffirmation of that fact, please read R.V.’s wonderful and intelligent comment. I encourage and hope that everyone will because it sums up the real point of this matter. And Angry Patriot, before you start shipping anybody anywhere, remember what your heritage is least you get shipped too by the Polish or French descendent who doesn’t agree with your cultural leniage. Most of the “coloreds” you speak of “shipping back” where born here as you most likely were. And I’m gussing by your terminalogy that the majority of “coloreds” are younger than you and therefore were never residents of other lands but have and are legal United States residents. So once again, think twice because if we’re illigal-you are too which makes us equal anyway. Thank you R.V. for your educated comment which I again encourage everyone to read.

    Posted by: byrd at April 4, 2007 6:24 PM
    Comment #284853

    americans need these jobs.hey they will take these jobs our people (legal Americans)they have familys to feed.illegals need to either go back or become a taxpaying american.this is a darn shame that taxpaying americans are out of work and illegals are working.that is because our gretty thiefs buisness owners do not want to pay the min.wage nor have healthcare.

    Posted by: maggie at July 22, 2009 10:49 PM
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