Smart Dems, Stupid Dems

America’s openness to foreign investment is great for the American people. Foreign-owned U.S. operations account for 21% of our total exports and in 2004 plowed $45 billion in profits back into the American economy. One of the worst things that could happen to us is to politicize foreign investment decisions, as happened with the recent Dubai Ports deal.

One good thing about the Clinton times was that that smart Dems controled their loony anti-business left wing. I paraphrased the information above from an article in the WSJ by Stuart Eizenstat, who held a number of trade related posts in the Clinton Administration.

In fact, the Clinton Administration was a relentless promoter of trade and business. I see a lot of Clinton nostalgia on this blog. Bill Clinton was a good steward of the economy and has become a statesman. Let's not forget why. His administration was moderate and pro-business, trade and investment. In the six years out of power, Dems are turning more to the moveon.org wing. Stop it. No good can come from this. You can do better. We can do better.

Even in the case of the Dubai Ports deal, you may recall that Bill Clinton supported the deal and only pulled out after Hilary showed up. It would have been a smart deal for the U.S. but bipartisan xenophobia killed it. Let's not make a habit of such things. Our open market is our greatest asset and a basis for our prosperity. As Mr. Eizenstat says,

America must remain open for business.

Posted by Jack at March 30, 2006 11:47 PM
Comments
Comment #137029

Jack,

Ah, the old trust, but verify scheme.

No wait. Hold your friends close, but hold your enemies closer.

Jack, it’s a whole new world out there. Everything must be looked at with a raised eyebrow now.

Most folks in THIS country don’t trust each other, how can we expect them to trust a forign company.
Xenophobia wasn’t the only reason for the downfall of the ports deal.
What was truely amazing was to hear Hannity and Limbaugh on the opposite side of something for a change.

Posted by: Rocky at March 31, 2006 12:33 AM
Comment #137031

What happens when Taiwan makes a move for full independence?

The United States has remained an arbiter in this situation (and has sold a lot of high tech weapons to Taiwan) and it is very likely we would get involved.

Only, on top of being a nuclear armed foe with an extremely large military, China has major investments in both United States captial and United States infrastructure.

How do we deal with China’s aggression when they could single handedly flush our economy just by cashing in bonds etc?

I’m not stating a personal opinion here, because I don’t think this is a cut and dry issue, but this is a real situation. There are major issues with foreign debt and a trade deficit which is growing that pose major longterm ramifications for our economy.

Posted by: iandanger at March 31, 2006 12:49 AM
Comment #137034

Jack:

Explain to us how the Democrats, a minority party, can overturn the Dubai Ports Deal?

Maybe you should change your title to “Smart Reps, Scared Reps” eh?

Posted by: Aldous at March 31, 2006 1:59 AM
Comment #137036

Jack,
Bad argument Jack considering that it was the Republicans bashing China buying the port in the 90’s, yet after 9/11 your political leadership is still want to give Forgien Power control over America’s Land. Forgien Business were Americans can and should disinvest it if it does wrong maybe? However, giving Any single Corporation the same Powers as a Nation so it can compete with other Businesses who have to play by their rules is IMHO not only dumb, but would lead to America being Less Safe than More. Therefore, is the Republican Party doing a Kerry Flip-Flop or should America’s Market be looking out for “We the American Consumers” who make them the profits that they seek?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 31, 2006 3:16 AM
Comment #137042

ditto iandanger’s remarks. In addition, if it takes politicizing foreign investments to get transparency and accountability over what the executive branch is doing then, so be it. The secrecy of such issues by this administration is what is creating its many migraines!!!

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 31, 2006 4:52 AM
Comment #137049


Ummm, some of us Liberal Dem nutcases do consider economy important. I didn’t just turn Liberal yesterday… we were always here, Jack, but perhaps not so vocal until we got upset by current events.

:)
Squeaky

Posted by: Squeaky at March 31, 2006 5:24 AM
Comment #137052

Schlatman,

In the English language we don’t capitalize all of our nouns.

Posted by: Nealzer at March 31, 2006 7:25 AM
Comment #137055

First problem is, the Republican party has made a lot of political hay by being the politically incorrect xenophobes who are tougher than everybody else when it comes to doing what’s needed. Translation: This kind of prejudice has been stewing a long time in the Republican party, and has been the substitute for any real, informed plan to make America safe. The Democrats are following suit, where they are, because it makes them look as “tough” as the Republicans say they are.

Truth is, the Republicans, as usual, have sided with industry, and industry, often lead by shortsighted businesspeople who can’t think more than the next quarter ahead, has resisted these changes.

The same thing happened with the Airlines before 9/11. The same result will occur, if the ports are the vulnerability the terrorists exploit. They exploited the vulnerabilities of the aviation industry that still existed even after years of danger signs, years of reports detailing how terrible security was.

Only now, after thousands of Americans are dead, and tens of billions, even hundreds of billions of dollars have been lost to that attack, do the airlines understand the cost of their error. Even after all they did to undermine the push for more security, they have the gall to ask the government to bail them out.

Ultimately, our question here is whether or not we’re willing, as a matter of the public good, the ports and other vulnerable points of our country, to force the targeted industries to make their facilities more secure.

Any other approach leads to our society mistaking isolation for safety, and the appearance of security for its reality. If you want globalized trade, you need good globalized relationships, and you don’t get that with alienating xenophobia. In fact, I’d say Xenophobia only serves to indicate just how afraid we really are of the terrorists.

If we want to be truly fearless, we let the people have the port, and then force them to keep it so secure they couldn’t put a bag of poisoned rice through the inspections.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 31, 2006 7:36 AM
Comment #137059

Gee…I wonder how the USA will survive when foreign countries begin kicking out USA interests from thier shores. You really think our ports will be more secure if controlled soley by American companies? Congress has let US merchant marine (once the biggest fleet of ships in the world) lose control of the high seas in commerce. You don’t think the terrorist will figure another way to get dirty bombs in?

The USA should be out making friends, doing business and making strong ties with as many outher countries as possible right now. Especially those powerful countries.

The democrats are idiots!!

They have no plan for anything.

I wish they would all just pack it up and move to Canada.

Posted by: Everett Hatton at March 31, 2006 7:52 AM
Comment #137060


I remind you Everett, it was a bipartisan call for investigation into the ports deal. Idiots, indeed.

Posted by: Squeaky at March 31, 2006 7:57 AM
Comment #137062

My father is a lifelong Democrat. Maybe my staunch conservatism is some sort of rebellion. Anyway my dad voted for every Democrat from FDR to Clinton. He voted for GWB in ‘04. My father is disgusted at what has happened to his party. He used to be proud to be called a liberal, but now he distances himself from that term and would rather be known as a “conservative Democrat”. The Michael Moorefoodplease and moveon.org types have hijacked the once noble Democratic party. This is the single biggest reason for the shift in the electorate from Dems to Reps. It’s as if we allowed David Duke to be a major spokesman for the Republicans. When you hand over your organization to the radical whack jobs on the fringe, it’s a huge turnoff to voters. My dad and I disagree on a lot in politics. He thinks Social Security is one of the great accomplishments of the 20th century, while I think it is a burden we won’t be able to bear for much longer. He thinks Ronald Reagan was a chode, while I believe he is ready for Sainthood. We agree on at least one thing, that they sure don’t make Democrats the way they used to.

Posted by: Duano at March 31, 2006 8:09 AM
Comment #137065

Everett, let’s dispense with the name calling generally aimed at one third of this site’s visitors. It violates our policy.

Posted by: Watchblog Managing Editor at March 31, 2006 8:46 AM
Comment #137067

Duano,

Nor do they make Republicans like they used to. I have voted across pary lines but consider myself left-leaning. The Republicans that have typically gotten my vote in the past were the true fiscal conservative types…..they are becoming a VERY rare breed. Indeed, the once fiscal conservative party are giving lessons on how to spend money AND cut taxes AND go deeper into debt than anyone thought imagineable.

Posted by: Tom L at March 31, 2006 9:04 AM
Comment #137068

Watchblog Managing Editor,

While I’m not defending Everett, I can’t help but notice that what he wrote about the Democrats is quite mild compared to what is seen every day in the Blue column about Republicans. (Repuglicans, as one guy likes to put it over there). Please try to keep the scolding and threats of being kicked off even and unbiased on both sides. Thank you.

Posted by: Duano at March 31, 2006 9:07 AM
Comment #137070

Tom L,

I agree. The fiscal conservatives are a dying breed, and I am pretty disgusted with my party right now. Having said that, I don’t see how the Klan or the National Alliance have taken over my party the way Moveon.org and other fringe groups have the Democratic party. The day my party elects Ann Coulter as its national party chair, like you guys did with Dean, I will leave the Republican party for good.

Posted by: Duano at March 31, 2006 9:15 AM
Comment #137071

Henry

I was not arguing that the Dems killed the deal nor that Repubicans were always on the right side. It was bipartisan xenophobia, as I said. The reason I wrote this is because I really liked the article in WSJ and was mildly surprised to see it was written by a fairly prominent Democrat. Then, when I thought about Clinton, I realized that his administration is very different from what the moveon Dems promise (threaten).

Iandanger

Taiwan is a problem with or without Chinese investments. It is problably the most dangerous situation in the world today, although I think it is a low probability event.

There is a plus side to the Chinese investment. We have a co-dependency with the Chinese. In the event of an actual shooting war, Chinese investments in the U.S. would become worthless (remember what happened to German investments in 1941). In addition, any rapid sell off would also cause losses for the Chinese. I don’t think this is a very healthy thing, but it may acually be stablizing.

If someone owes you a big sum of money, it is important that TO YOU that he prospers.

Posted by: Jack at March 31, 2006 9:18 AM
Comment #137073

Jack,
Like I try to keep telling you, “We” need a strong Demo-Publican Party that understands the Game of Politics is to Discover what is “Unalienable Do-able” (sp) given the Will of the People and the funds necessary to carry it out. Maybe someday our politicians will grow up with the rest of America’s Children of the 21st Century.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 31, 2006 9:33 AM
Comment #137075

>>Then, when I thought about Clinton, I realized that his administration is very different from what the moveon Dems promise (threaten).

Strange that a Republican can wax nostalgic about a Clinton presidency, when it was the Republicans who tried so desparately to bring it down.

The irony is palpable, when you hear the same people worrying about ‘moveon’ dems…

Maybe we’re starting to see Clinton as a PRESIDENT, and not a Demo/Repub. Wasn’t it nice to have someone in that high office who actually put the people of America at the top of his priority list?

Wasn’t it a shame to ridicule his personal foibles, when he was doing so much good?


Posted by: Marysdude at March 31, 2006 9:44 AM
Comment #137078
In the six years out of power, Dems are turning more to the moveon.org wing. Stop it. No good can come from this. You can do better. We can do better.

If we are using the DPW deal as a model, the “moveon.org wing” not only runs the Democratic party , but the Republican Party, too! They must be giddy with power… Come to think of it, why do the Democrats need to win elections? They are apparently playing the GOP like a puppet. (If only it were so.)

On another front, people often claim that the Democrats have moved left in recent years, but I would like to see the evidence. Remember that Clinton run on a platform of universal health care in 1992. He is also the one who cut defense spending. Yet he is the moderate and Kerry, who wanted to raise defense spending, was the wacky socialist…

The fact is, the Dems have been moving to the right at least since the Reagan years. If you want to say they haven’t moved fast enough, that’s a different argument.

Posted by: Woody Mena at March 31, 2006 10:00 AM
Comment #137080
The reason I wrote this is because I really liked the article in WSJ and was mildly surprised to see it was written by a fairly prominent Democrat.

Jack, the Democratic Party has always been about engaging the rest of the world. Protectionism and isolationism have traditionally been a hallmark of the Republican Party.

Would Democrats like to support labor unions China, see the concept of “fair trade” enacted, and put environmental clauses into our trade agreements? Of course. But when President Bush talks of isolationists and withdrawing from the world, he’s talking to Congressional Republicans.

BTW, I sill get a good chuckle over that Dubai Ports World deal. Bush really shot himself in the foot with that one. You just can’t scare America into thinking Arab Muslims are all out cut our heads off, and then think you can turn over our port management to Arab Muslims. Just one more wacky example of unintended consequences. :D

Posted by: American Pundit at March 31, 2006 10:17 AM
Comment #137082

Jack

“Even in the case of the Dubai Ports deal, you may recall that Bill Clinton supported the deal and only pulled out after Hilary showed up.”

Why shouldn’t he support the deal? After all, hadn’t he already taken millions of dollars from Dubai in the form of donations to his library and speaking fees?

He pulled out when news of his connection to Dubai reentered the public reaalm.

Posted by: slowthinker at March 31, 2006 10:26 AM
Comment #137084

Duano, your point is well made and taken. But with volunteers monitoring the site, not all such occurances are spotted. I can assure you, the treatment cuts all ways equally on this site. We will continue to do our best to catch these infringements on our policy in all 3 columns.

Posted by: Watchblog Managing Editor at March 31, 2006 10:38 AM
Comment #137087

While I do see globalization as an avenue to general peace, the problem with the china situation is that China has the fastest growing economy in the world. If you included Taiwan in China, it would be number 1 today. The larger China’s economy gets, the more capable they are of absorbing the hit losing US investments and the United States as a trading partner.

With any other nation, I could see our standing being a strong bargaining chip. China though, has a long history of taking steps which, in the short term are disasterous and distructive, but in the long run put them out on top. China seems to be getting better, but its really hard to tell what theyll do in the long run.

Basically, China is the largest (of population obviously) and most unpredictable of nations, which makes me worry about their large investments in US bonds, infrastructure, etc.

In the long run, we can’t keep running such large trade deficits and budget deficits, not with China and India’s economies growing the way they are now. Currently, we spend well over our means, our economy spends well over its means, and it is good for everyone because they reap the benefits of an afflunent united states. The problem occurs when investing in our economy isn’t profitable for them anymore.

Posted by: iandanger at March 31, 2006 10:43 AM
Comment #137088

When I set this site on my webpage, I thought there would be intelligent discussions between conservatives. Instead, I find the board filled with Democrats who apparently signed on just to criticize and offer no constructive answers.

I guess I’ll have to check out the Democrats & Liberals site…maybe I’ll find what I’m looking for there…

Posted by: Cathy at March 31, 2006 10:53 AM
Comment #137089

Cathy,

“I thought there would be intelligent discussions between conservatives.”

You sound as if you think this should be an exclusively “conservative” club.
Everyone that has an opinion is allowed to post on all “sides” of the issues here if their intrest is piqued.

This is a “discussion” site after all.

Posted by: Rocky at March 31, 2006 11:04 AM
Comment #137091

Rocky,
I couldn’t agree more that all “sides” of the issues need to be heard. I’m just curious as to why so many of the posts are anti-conservative. Just once I would like to hear what’s right with our country.

Posted by: Cathy at March 31, 2006 11:07 AM
Comment #137092

Cathy,

I don’t know that most posts are nescessesarily anti-conservitive as much as most folks here hold strong opinions one way or another.

Eric hasn’t posted in a while.
Wait till you get a load of him.
They really come out of the woodwork for Eric.

Posted by: Rocky at March 31, 2006 11:12 AM
Comment #137095

Duano-
I personally think this whole Michael Moore hijack things is all hat and no cattle. They’re gaining the influence they are because your average Democrat is getting sick of this administration faster than our politicians are getting assertive and vocal about it themselves. Moore himself, from my observations, isn’t as kooky as his critics on the right make him out to be. His critics, in fact, have become more strident than the man himself, and have demonstrated considerably less of Moore’s satirical humor.

Frankly, I think the Heart and Soul of the average Democrat lies somewhere between Frontline and The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. I think Democrats are closer to the consensus, more pragmatic and open-minded, and ultimately more intellectually honest with themselves than the GOP is at this moment. The erroneous assumption with the Right is that we center our culture around our radical fringe pundits the way they do, that our bias towards the extreme side of the party matches theirs.

The Republicans have done a very good job of convincing people of this, considering how deeply they already believed it to be true. Trouble is, the Democrats are starting to make a hell of a lot more sense than your party is. Our only trouble is, our leaders are a bit behind the curve. This upcoming election may change that, as much as 1994 changed things for the GOP. Perhaps then we can pick reasonable policy over unreasonable politics.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 31, 2006 11:17 AM
Comment #137101

Thanks for the warning, Rocky!! It’s just that I get so discouraged by the constant backbiting in our government and our media. Years ago the news was the news, not a journalist’s opinion of the news.

The Dems point fingers at the Repubs and vice-versa. How are we ever going to find solutions to the problems, big & small, when we can’t even play nice and share our toys?!?

Posted by: Cathy at March 31, 2006 11:51 AM
Comment #137103

Cathy,

You have toys?

Posted by: Rocky at March 31, 2006 12:02 PM
Comment #137122

Rocky,

Well…just a boat, a motorcycle and a bunch of craft supplies.

Do you need a nice wreath to hang on your door?

Posted by: Cathy at March 31, 2006 1:00 PM
Comment #137123

Cathy, yes, there is some sifting involved, but, many highly intelligent and well reasoned solutions to our nations problems are to be found here in each of the 3 columns. As for favorable comments about how our country is doing, one need look no further than national polls to see why the majority of comments express concern for our nation, and especially for her future.

Presidents, Democrats, Republicans positive poll numbers are all below 40%. And polls on the direction of our country aren’t much better. Hence, this being a public access site, comments reflecting those poll numbers should be expected in roughly the same proportion.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 31, 2006 1:02 PM
Comment #137125

While I don’t think that foreign investment in American companies is necessarily a good thing. I don’t think it’s all bad either. A lot depends on the attitude of the folks running the company. Are they in it only to drain the American economy or just trying to turn a buck. Somehow I don’t think that China or the United Arab Emirate either are very concerned with our economy.
Mercedes Benz buying Chrysler has helped that company a whole heap. While Ford and GM have posted losses, and has suffered a loss of market share, Chrysler hasn’t had this problem as bad if any at all. In fact I believe that Chrysler has posted a profit for the last quarter.
It has also helped our economy by saving jobs that would’ve been lost had Chrysler gone under.
The down side is that the profits go to Germany instead of staying in the US. This is the major problem I have with foreign ownership of US companies.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 31, 2006 1:11 PM
Comment #137127

iandanger and Stephen’s (both) posts are spot on. IMO.
Rocky, you crack me up!

Posted by: Adrienne at March 31, 2006 1:14 PM
Comment #137135

Stephen,

I heard a little while back that a college professor read a presidential inaugural address to his class and asked them to guess which party this president must have belonged to. The class unanimously said “Republican”. The president was John F. Kennedy. This demonstrates the change that has taken place in the Democratic party that you think is non-existent, and also explains why a lifelong Democrat would vote for Bush.

Posted by: Duano at March 31, 2006 1:44 PM
Comment #137146

Duano,

“This demonstrates the change that has taken place in the Democratic party that you think is non-existent, and also explains why a lifelong Democrat would vote for Bush.”

So how would you compare the most recent Republican presidents to, say, President Eisenhower.

IMHO, not even close.

Esienhower understood what war actually was, and also understood what it took to win one, unlike the leaders of today that not only did their best to avoid service, but also don’t have a clue about strategy.

Posted by: Rocky at March 31, 2006 2:27 PM
Comment #137147

in a sense you could say that about president clinton is brush strokes were not always that narrow he had a clever way to embrace a idea from the right or the left and use it for the good of the country. you knew where the ideas came from but so what they were used .on the flip side thats what made president reagan also popular many times he would pick up a phone to talk to a democrat about a bill. he also was not afraid to communicate.

Posted by: RODNEY BROWN at March 31, 2006 2:42 PM
Comment #137158

Duano,

Am I to understand that you followed the Dixicrats to the Republican party because of this change you refer too? I’ve shifted the other way because of the Change I ‘ve seen.

I have never seen leaders with so little regard for law as these. I am stunned by the devil-may-care attitude exhibited by this administration and many of its supporters. Anarchy is not democracy. Rule of law is the LOWEST common denominator in a civil and free society, but to these morons in Washington these days, it is a bar that is still too high.

RGF

Posted by: RGF at March 31, 2006 3:54 PM
Comment #137159

Duano-
Have you considered that perhaps Bush’s goal was to sound more like Kennedy, to project the image of a centrist?

After all, this is the guy who made a point of calling himself a Compassionate Conservative, and making education a big focus, where traditionally Republicans have shied away from both.

With Bush, it’s often instructive to know the tree by the fruit it bears. His rhetoric may be centrist most of the time, but his actions tend to be much more radical, much farther right on the spectrum.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 31, 2006 3:59 PM
Comment #137162

Duano,

Don’t be scared, I’ve heard of this before, albeit only in science fiction stories. You see, you must have just arrived here from another dimension where everything is the opposite of this one. In this dimension Clinton was the one who created the budget surplus and Bush was the one who led the country to a failed war and ruinous debt.

Posted by: Max at March 31, 2006 4:12 PM
Comment #137186

I hate to break it to you guys but I think the only way to get control of this tailspinning budget and deficit crisis is to raise taxes AND cut spending. Not one or the other….BOTH. It ain’t popular and it won’t win elections but it will solve some problems. (Jack…when I say cut spending, I’m also talking about getting control of our entitlement programs…just thought I would save you that speach, since I do agree, to some extent, with you on this topic).

Regards,

Posted by: Tom L at March 31, 2006 9:01 PM
Comment #137190

The Presidency is largely a bully pulpit. Presidents have very little control over an economy except by declaring war and thereby creating inflationary spending.

It is Congress who holds the purse strings and levees taxes. It is K street that holds the key to most of the pork.

It is Republicants and Democranks of the Congress who are spending like drunken sailors to be popular with the B-girl lobbyists, and get reelected.

Reform coporate law to reflect that no corporation who benefits from congressional spending or legislation can fund lobbyists or political campaigns or parties. Reform this on a state and local government level as well. Educational forums which allow dissent and opposite points of view are the only valid forms of political expression that corporate charters should allow corporations to participate in.

This is the source of our current deficit and political extremism. Follow the money, stupid. This is why neither the Demogogs nor Republirats will fundamentally change the political corruption
that is sending us in the wrong directions.

Posted by: Jack Mohammedoff at March 31, 2006 9:53 PM
Comment #137202

I think that most not all democrates will say or do just about anything to further there defeatest goals.And some would sell there souls and countrie down the drain and claim deniel while doing so.Jesse jackson is still beat his drumms and these folks dont even have a clue.These people are not caring about whats happening on our borders and the true problems of a nation under seage.We show limited saport for our young folks whom are fighting in iraq.And why do these folks want to come here to a land that the middle east wants to distroy so they can be marters to.just think 1 ounce of salution can make a lb of cure.Stop takein cheap shots at the presedent. and work to present salutions to our nations problems not make more.I refer the ports deal dem did know that many of our warships marines and army go to port of call in the uae and they new that our ports would still be under us coastguard and govt supervision it was just another lie to start trouble. the idiot figold needs to put a sock in it or put a zipper in his mouth mr reid needs to stay in navada and gamble his life away not ours iran is building weapons of mass destruction with russias help and chinas blessings and we even have a russian mole in our own pentagon that tell the terorist all they need to know to hurt us yet the dems like fingold say we cant listen in on the enamie but its ok for them to listen in on us fingold is a trator and should be trated like one by his home constituants.And pardon my republicans opinion!

Posted by: allen stephens at March 31, 2006 11:53 PM
Comment #137232

Allen,
most not all democrates will say or do just about anything to further there defeatest goals

Can not the same be said about the Republicans in 2004? How many times and in how many ways did their Spin Masters atempt to sale their ideas that were known at the time to be factually wrong?

No, the Democrats and Republicans both need to grow up and realize that both political parties have been on a course of Human Events that has sen our Government weakened due to events that took place in the 50’s & 60’s. However, now that America needs to stand tall as a Nation and Society that follows The Spirit of the Law.

My question to both sides of the political coin is does your Party have what it takes to do what is found to be Politically Unalienable Correct regradless of their personal beliefs or will more Americans lose because the current Republican Leadership will not admit or understand why it is “We the Consumers of America” that place profits in their greedy little hands?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at April 1, 2006 3:53 AM
Comment #137292

You bet it can both parties are like giant ostrages with there head stuck somwhere besides sand. the problems are not being fixed.And we all have a ringside seat to this stupidity.And yet both parties want to play the race card both hispanic and african american leaders are playin there race cards. we need this we need that.What we really need is for those whom come here pay there taxes here and those whom hire them to report and pay those taxes and also pay there fines.if they comit a felony crime on our soil they pay our price although tell those drug dealers and human trificers they will be shot on site if and only if previously deported from the usa. once a criminal is ejected theres no return welcome wagon

Posted by: allen stephens at April 1, 2006 2:26 PM
Comment #137297

Allen Stephens-
Bush’s problem is that he thinks he can wage a war by himself and keep morale up by pretending the war is going well and all the goals are on there way to being taken care of.

Americans have more intelligence than that. Truth is, what’s dragging down this war is his inability to admit the faults of his actions, and his unwillingness to do something effective about it.

You’re looking for an enemy to beat up on. Fair enough. Problem is, you’re looking here. You’re getting frustrated with people who have legitimate questions about what their president did, without even considering the level of shit it’s gotten us into. Mistake after mistake is dismissed as biased representation of the war, instead of being considered as it is.

If we do lose, the public opinion around the war will be a footnote to all the failures and mistakes that inspired the negative opinion in the first place.

But go ahead, if you see fit. Go ahead and make believe that our losses have been the result of a lack of will, instead of a bad strategy. The incompetent defend themselves from blame by pointing to those who foresaw what they denied would happen.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 1, 2006 2:38 PM
Comment #137333

allen stephens,

For several years in a row, I volunteered my time to go down to the colonias projects along the border and help prepare raxes for the undocumented. They CAME IN THE HUNDREDS…THOUSANDS WHEN YOU CONSIDER WE DID THIS EVERY WEEKEND FOR 3 1/2 MONTHS EVERY YEAR!

The undocumented aliens in our country UNDERSTAND that if they don’t pay taxes, the issue come up again and will prevent them from becoming citizens. They know this so well that they bend over backwards to pay what they owe for what they earned.

I saw amazing success stories from that experience. Families who achieved the amazing task of pulling themselves up from the depths of poverty. They have an understanding of the value of education and thus do all they can to find a way for their kids to even go to college. They are, nonetheless, the poorest of the poor. They live in cinderblock houses along the border with dirt floors, many them, and those are the lucky ones.

I was lucky enough to do the taxes for one family two years in a row. The first year, the father had been significantly injured in the back while working. The emloyer ducked all responsibility and he got no assistence whatsoever from anybody. The family was able to manage only because they had a subsistence garden which they used to plant food. They were a mother, father and six kids living off that garden. That first year, they made less than $3,000. The very next year, the father had managed to heal himself enough to work again and the eldest son managed to get an academic scholarship to a major university which which I will not name. Their income that second year was over thirty grand.

Needles to say, I cannot and will not give any indication of identity of these people. But, I can assure you that this story is as real as it gets. The idea that we are losing tax dollars to laborers who aren’t contributing is preposterous. I have worked with the undocumented enough to know that they ALL want to pay and that a great many of them do pay taxes. Even more relevently, when it gets explained to them that they help their own cases for citizenship when they pay their taxes, they ALL jump at the oportunity. You can’t say that about most Americans born here.

Those people who are marketing paranoia to us are doing us all a diservice. This is a NON-ISSUE. The value of what we GAIN from the immigrants coming here to work, legally or otherwise, is far greater than anything they are erroneously percieved to be taking. Do they use services? Yes, but not to the extent that Americans do because they don’t know how to find the help that is out there. Do they enroll kids in our schools? Of course, but that is the most foundational indication of their intent to become full Americans whose contributions to our society will continue to grow as they learn and assimilate that I can imagine…how ‘bout you?

I’ve seen workers get ripped off of their last paychecks by major homebuilders who call in INS rather than paying for the work already done, I’ve seen pharmacies, factories, schools which charged more, turned people away or refused to serve people just because they were ‘percieved’ to be undocumented residents in our country. I’ve seen these things myself. It’s real.

I just don’t get this rediculous paranoia and I wish all those selling fear and ‘comparative greed’ would just STOP. Mostly, I wish the people that this paranoia was being sold to would get smart enough not to buy it.

RGF

Posted by: RGF at April 1, 2006 4:57 PM
Comment #137432

Its true im a republican but id like to think some what moderat.stephen what im saying is this the democradic party consist of mostly hipocrits and being is george bush was electide to the office by the people of this country instead of mr kerry.so the losers instead of promoting there own agenda and finding salutions rather than trying to inflame an already outa control media mess we could elect fox news prez and cnn vice prez@R.G.F.laws have to be passed and be on the books and even if you pay taxes here that still does not make you an american untill you take the test and those whom come here ilegaly and have children born here does make the children natural born americans with ileagel none american parents whom new that b4 they done that compasion only goes so far and every thing has its limits it should be made a crime to deleberatly come here ilegaly have your child here and knowing that the child will be a citizen and they wont but that allows them to use our compasion for the child to baypass the laws and thats a crime against there own child amnasty nope paying fine and moving to the back of the line yes and comit a crime and do the time.and i like a good debait shame we can talk and the government cant both sides

Posted by: allen stephens at April 2, 2006 1:27 PM
Comment #137441

Max — yes billery clinton mgave us surplus at our own paral he like carter the penut man distroyed our military and nasa and a great many other programs to get that surplus of moey so at what price the uss cole the us barackes in the middle east and how many lives were lost in that feasco!(Blaming the replicains whom blame democrats does not fix anything.) its the person or individual whom does.and it goes all the way back to the first trade center bombingwhich should have open eyes then and did not on bothsides of the isle!And back then we were not at war! we are not at war with any idividual countrie but with an organization that uses other hospitable countries to fight there battles so you cant target just 1 country or 1 group and they are not attacking 1 country they are atacting several from several to cause total catastrophic results on a global leavel!Then you add riots in france and protest here while iran builds the bomb and new underwater misels.THESE THOUGHTS are realality oreinted indeed

Posted by: allen stephens at April 2, 2006 2:49 PM
Comment #137459

While we are on the subject the wisconsin jerk fingold would serve his state and countrie best if he would simply shut the hell up cause many of his own party wish hed shut up hes on fox news now still goin on about his stupid sensure idea hes absolutly moved to the top of the stupid democrate list. and go chris wallace some one needs to empeach mr fingold or vote his ass out

Posted by: allen stephens at April 2, 2006 6:12 PM
Comment #137469

A perfect example of enlightened Conservative Thinking, Mr. Allen Stephens, inn hiz oan wurdz:

I think that most not all democrates will say or do just about anything to further there defeatest goals.And some would sell there souls and countrie down the drain and claim deniel while doing so.Jesse jackson is still beat his drumms and these folks dont even have a clue.These people are not caring about whats happening on our borders and the true problems of a nation under seage.We show limited saport for our young folks whom are fighting in iraq.And why do these folks want to come here to a land that the middle east wants to distroy so they can be marters to.just think 1 ounce of salution can make a lb of cure.Stop takein cheap shots at the presedent. and work to present salutions to our nations problems not make more.I refer the ports deal dem did know that many of our warships marines and army go to port of call in the uae and they new that our ports would still be under us coastguard and govt supervision it was just another lie to start trouble. the idiot figold needs to put a sock in it or put a zipper in his mouth mr reid needs to stay in navada and gamble his life away not ours iran is building weapons of mass destruction with russias help and chinas blessings and we even have a russian mole in our own pentagon that tell the terorist all they need to know to hurt us yet the dems like fingold say we cant listen in on the enamie but its ok for them to listen in on us fingold is a trator and should be trated like one by his home constituants.And pardon my republicans opinion!


[No pardon necessary, Allen! Please do continue to illuminate us with your careful thought and scintillating oratory!]


You bet it can both parties are like giant ostrages with there head stuck somwhere besides sand. the problems are not being fixed.And we all have a ringside seat to this stupidity.And yet both parties want to play the race card both hispanic and african american leaders are playin there race cards. we need this we need that.What we really need is for those whom come here pay there taxes here and those whom hire them to report and pay those taxes and also pay there fines.if they comit a felony crime on our soil they pay our price although tell those drug dealers and human trificers they will be shot on site if and only if previously deported from the usa. once a criminal is ejected theres no return welcome wagon


[Apparently, at this juncture, Mr. Stephens had to leave his brilliant analysis and run to a Secure Undisclosed Location in order to avoid a flyover by one of the U.N.’s dreaded Black Helicopters, conducting spying operations, as they do, for the Trilateral Commission. He picks up the thread, however, as soon as the danger has passed.]


Its true im a republican but id like to think some what moderat.stephen what im saying is this the democradic party consist of mostly hipocrits and being is george bush was electide to the office by the people of this country instead of mr kerry.so the losers instead of promoting there own agenda and finding salutions rather than trying to inflame an already outa control media mess we could elect fox news prez and cnn vice prez@R.G.F.laws have to be passed and be on the books and even if you pay taxes here that still does not make you an american untill you take the test and those whom come here ilegaly and have children born here does make the children natural born americans with ileagel none american parents whom new that b4 they done that compasion only goes so far and every thing has its limits it should be made a crime to deleberatly come here ilegaly have your child here and knowing that the child will be a citizen and they wont but that allows them to use our compasion for the child to baypass the laws and thats a crime against there own child amnasty nope paying fine and moving to the back of the line yes and comit a crime and do the time.and i like a good debait shame we can talk and the government cant both sides


[As much as we all like a Good Debait, at this point Mr. Stephens had to abruptly cut short his writing yet again, as there were Revenuers outside the door of his Montana cabin. But be not disheartened, for soon he returned to further demonstrate the firm and intellectual grasp of Reality possessed by modern Conservatives.]


Max — yes billery clinton mgave us surplus at our own paral he like carter the penut man distroyed our military and nasa and a great many other programs to get that surplus of moey so at what price the uss cole the us barackes in the middle east and how many lives were lost in that feasco!(Blaming the replicains whom blame democrats does not fix anything.) its the person or individual whom does.and it goes all the way back to the first trade center bombingwhich should have open eyes then and did not on bothsides of the isle!And back then we were not at war! we are not at war with any idividual countrie but with an organization that uses other hospitable countries to fight there battles so you cant target just 1 country or 1 group and they are not attacking 1 country they are atacting several from several to cause total catastrophic results on a global leavel!Then you add riots in france and protest here while iran builds the bomb and new underwater misels.THESE THOUGHTS are realality oreinted indeed


[Indeed they are! Why, everytime I turn on Fox News, I get a dose of this Realality myself! (Penicillin is effective, WatchBlog readers, as is washing the eyes and auditory canal with a strong solution of lye soap.)]


While we are on the subject the wisconsin jerk fingold would serve his state and countrie best if he would simply shut the hell up cause many of his own party wish hed shut up hes on fox news now still goin on about his stupid sensure idea hes absolutly moved to the top of the stupid democrate list. and go chris wallace some one needs to empeach mr fingold or vote his ass out


Ah, how excellent! Yet once again, we are treated to a reasoned and informed example of Critical Thinking by one of today’s Conservative cognoscenti. It makes me proud to be an American, and it even - believe me - brings a tear to my eye.

Posted by: Betty Burke at April 2, 2006 7:55 PM
Comment #137499

Well if its inteended to ofend consider a totaly closed mind to be offensive!my spelling and typing might not be up to your level of expert. but i think i can still get my point across.but some laws may need to be changed.but it takes both parties.now we do have a national security problem. no as for mr fingold its a fact that most dems do not saport this mess hes focusing in on. why because our saftey is indeed involved and rather than keep that mess goin would not it work out best if we focus on the curent threat iran and not ileagels’ laws need to be inforced now we know that sending 12 million people back is not goin to work and will crash our economy and as i said bring harm to the inocent folks. we have human trafficing goin on here and drugs and gangs.and lets get real do you think just for 1 minute that the iranian prez cares how many hispanics die why because right or left or wrong they are majoity christian catholic at that and concidered to b infidels just like the british and canadians and us the good ole usa.. now fact sadom was and is a mass murder of his own people and osoma wants the whole world to think like him. and iran is a ticking time bomb with a idiot with his hand on the plunger. again my computer ology might not ring bells but for sure theres no bats in my belfry i killed em

Posted by: allen stephens at April 2, 2006 10:41 PM
Comment #137834

Stephen,
“Truth is, the Republicans, as usual, have sided with industry, and industry, often lead by shortsighted businesspeople who can’t think more than the next quarter ahead, has resisted these changes.”

God, you are so right. See below!

Did Someone Not Get the Memo?

Feb. 16 - Only weeks before Halliburton made headlines by announcing it was pulling out of Iran—a nation George W. Bush has labeled part of the “axis of evil”—the Texas-based oil services firm quietly signed a major new business deal to help develop Tehran’s natural gas fields…

Documents disclosed by the company indicate that the Justice Department probe into Halliburton’s Iran dealings, like a separate Justice investigation into alleged foreign bribes paid by a Halliburton-connected consortium to officials in Nigeria, cover the period that Cheney was Halliburton CEO.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6982444/site/newsweek/

Maybe Cheney can use the Lay defense. I was the CEO but really I am an idiot and incompetent, I had to trust my subordinates to run the company.

Axis of Evil my arse! Pull the other one.

Is this the results when the business of America is business?

Here, watch this hand where I hold Hillary… see what she does and see what she says! In the other hand is where the real action, the real magic is being performed!

Posted by: Darren7160 at April 4, 2006 6:37 AM
Comment #137835

Jack,
Characterizing the Democrats as “anti-business” is really just a meaningless platitude that the Republicans like to parade out to scare people.

Democrats understand very well the nature of capital, need for profit, and the good that the stock market can provide. However, any questioning of any type of limitations is thrown out as anti-business… unless the Republicans are also forced into doing something because of a way too embarassing meltdown.

Even then the quickly follow up and start talking about acting too fast and without enough care given.
http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3984019

Historically, let’s see… Michael Milken and Ivan Boskey, deregulation of Savings and Loans good… deregulation bad.

Net Results:
+ The goverment bail out will cost the taxpayers around $1.4 trillion dollars when it is over.
+ If the White House had stepped in and bailed out the S&L’s in 1986 instead of delaying until after the 1988 elections, the cost might have been only $20 billion.
+ For perspective of the amount: With the money lost from the S&L scandals, the government could have provided prenatal care for every American child for the next 2,300 years. With the money lost from the S&L scandals, the government could have purchased 5 million average homes. Or, think how much less we Americans would have had to pay in taxes.

Energy Regulation Bad, Deregulated Energy Good:

“Outraged Western senators claim their constituents were bilked out of billions of dollars by Enron and other energy traders who sold power in 2000 and 2001 into newly deregulated Western markets. In documents released May 7 by FERC, Enron lawyers outline manipulation by the firm’s West Coast traders during the California power crisis to drive up prices.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/covers/2002-05-16-enron-california-hearings.htm

We Democrats understand that greed is not good as in the movie “Wall Street”. Reponsible people earning a responsible living is good. Wisely investing in the stock market based on the same information that others have is good.

We will continue to be victims of these types of scandals as long as any discussion of restraints against greed is viewed as “anti-business”. It is an economic system based on theories… not sanctified religous dogma that classifies any doubts or any questions as heresy.

Posted by: Darren7160 at April 4, 2006 7:33 AM
Comment #138060

Clinton was not a good steward of the economy. He, and his 401k bull-crap were a large scale example of how politicians like to pass problems forward.

But Clinton aside, there is hardly a shortage of foreign investment in America. That is, there is no shortage of foreign countries owning U.S. securities.

Posted by: Zeek at April 4, 2006 9:42 PM
Comment #138951

[blockquote]On another front, people often claim that the Democrats have moved left in recent years, but I would like to see the evidence.
The fact is, the Dems have been moving to the right at least since the Reagan years…[/blockquote]
There isn’t any evidence, just like there isn’t any evidence the entire media is liberal. Neocons (and their propaganda, fox news) will use lies and slanders at every opportunity to gain power.
They constantly complain about Clinton lying, but he lied about a personal matter that wasn’t even a crime. Republicans lie and attack to increase their power, and when Bush lies he does it to cover up his crimes and mislead the american people.

One of the first things America must do is get out of Iraq. They obviously don’t want us there (I bet most insurgents are Iraqi themselves) We aren’t making any progress, and its now the responsibility of the Iraqi people to decide their future. Besides pulling out will let them know this, Americans in control just sends a message that they don’t need to do anything and we’ll just run their country for them.

China represents the greatest threat (long-term) America has ever faced. They’ll soon be wealthier, and they are very smart and willing to think for the long-term, unlike most americans. We need to think of ways to counteract this threat. We can’t afford to sell out america, as Bush did in the Dubai ports deal. Conservative greed knows no bounds, and they’ll sacrifice national security and american integrity for the almight dollar.

The biggest myth about China is that as they become wealthier and enjoy greater prosperity, they’ll become more peaceful and less aggressive. It’s of course all garbage. History shows otherwise. If a nation or empire becomes richer it doesn’t make it more peaceful, it does however give it more money for military spending and to compete with other countries.

Posted by: John at April 7, 2006 10:37 PM
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