U.S. Immigration Policy: Biased Against Whites?

Meet Manuel Bartsch. He’s a good ol’ American boy who plays football, has a girlfriend, and works hard in school. He’s about as American as Apple Pie.

One problem: He is undocumented.


Bartsch spent 16 days in jail in the Cleveland suburb of Bedford Heights starting on Dec. 21 after discovering that his step-grandfather never completed his immigration paperwork eight years ago. Bartsch was born in Germany but raised by his grandparents. His step-grandfather, Toby Deal, brought him to the United States on a visa in 1997.

Bartsch said he never questioned his citizenship until he was preparing to take a college entrance exam. "I thought everything was fine until the end of my junior year when I had to take the ACT/SAT," he said. "I asked my [step-grandfather] about it because I needed my Social Security number, and he said you're not really a citizen." Bartsch discovered the incomplete paperwork when he was searching for documents to show he was an American citizen. When he couldn't find any, he contacted U.S. immigration authorities hoping the office would have records. He was detained and jailed.

Flash back a few years. In 2002, Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo was reading the Denver Post when they featured a story on, Jesus Apodaca, an undocumented immigrant who spoke out about his struggle to attend college. After reading the story, Tancredo contacted immigration authorities and asked that Apodaca be deported immediately. It makes sense. Immigration authorities would uphold federal law and do their job at the same time - by deporting an illegal alien, Jesus Apodaca.

Jesus Apodaca was not deported.

But, eventually, Manuel Bartsch will be. There are obvious double standards. Jesus Apodaca is Hispanic. Manuel Bartsch is White. Whatever the reason the question remains: why did immigration authorities hone in on Bartsch and not the millions of illegals, who happen to be predominantly Hispanic, flowing through the southern border? Maybe Bartsch doesn't foster the traditional "family values" that "don't stop at the Rio Grande." Or, more correctly, maybe our immigration laws only apply to those not under the de facto guest worker program installed by our government.

Why do the immigration authorities and the Department of Homeland Security waste time worrying about Bartsch when there are dozens of far greater problems for them to solve. What about securing our dangerously porous borders? What about the MS-13? What about subversive Islamists? The future of this country hinges on our immigration blueprint. As of right now it's looking grim.

Posted by Mike Tate at January 10, 2006 7:56 AM
Comments
Comment #111798

Mike,

“Or, more correctly, maybe our immigration laws only apply to those not under the de facto guest worker program installed by our government.”

It’s one more example of industry being prioritized above the safety of the American people.
This administration puts the needs of oil and energy over the environment.
Cronyism take precedence over storm preparedness.
Securing Middle East oil(Iraq) and continued dependency on fossil fuels overrides the war on terror(Afghanistan).
The guest worker program allows the wealthy to exploit poor workers and benefit industry at the cost of border security.
You folks voted for him because he was going to make America safe. He sure fooled you.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at January 10, 2006 8:22 AM
Comment #111807

Andre

I seem to recall there being illegal aliens in the U.S. before the Bush Administration, but I guess I was mistaken. Can’t you guys ever address any problem without the Bush is bad implication?

Mike

Your friend just got stuck in the bureaucratic web. It probably happened because he tried to do the right thing. Illegal aliens who know they are illegal know to avoid the authorities.

You do have a point about what happens after. Your friend has no advocates because he does not fall into the usual protected classes. It has little to do with being white and a lot to do with politics of ethnicity. He would have more leverage if he was Hispanic, but he would also probably be better off if he were Irish or even Polish. Germans don’t have a lobby group since their big immigration was a long time ago. Germans are America’s largest minority. 58 million Americans claim German ancestry. It is just that they have become very well integrated, like your friend.

Posted by: Jack at January 10, 2006 8:51 AM
Comment #111808

So, Mike,

You’re saying that because Bartsch is white and in high school doing high school things he is “American as Apple Pie” and that Apodaca who is also trying to live the “american dream” by going to college is not.

Why is Apodaca not “american as apple pie”?

Posted by: Dave at January 10, 2006 8:56 AM
Comment #111833

Wow… I feel, that after reading your post a second time… sheeesh, what a watse of my time. You don’t mention any specifics (other than race) as to why one might be deported and the other might now. You can’t even say specifically if either will be deported.

Please - either point out more detail or stop making assumptions. I know us poor white folks are always getting the raw end of every deal, but let’s just the facts in line before we fire up the ovens.

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 10:16 AM
Comment #111839

I read the whole thread and this immigration issue is becoming a topic just like religion and politics, we all will never agree on everything, it all comes down to people like my grandfather seeking a new world for his descendants, a decent place for us to live, where you can earn your money honestly and bring food to your family’s table, my grandfather passed away an american citizen, the system has been benevolent with us Salvadoreans and descendants of Salvadoreans just like it is with cambodians, vietnamese, cubans and other infortunate nationalities, Mexicans on the other hand as the system stands right now just have no chance of ever becoming legal, Mr. Bartsch has a chance, his step grandfather can probably still correct the error, I don’t think authorities are biased, most of the border patrol americans have mexicans face and they catch people that look just like them, my brother and I had a conversation about illegal immigration the other day and from my humble point of view the whole issue lies in the immigration system, he went to Switzerland a few months ago and stayed for a while, he observed that they do have people from nearby countries immigrating to the richer countries in Europe as well but they do have programs in which people can become legal residents and the racial and social tension is much less, all of the social problems we see could be solved if there was a system in place to legalize all of this people, not all at once nor when they set foot in our country but over time, there is people that has come here from Mexico just after being born, if you talk to them they are american just like Barsch, all they know is this country, this culture and they love it as much as we all do, they have been here for thirty years or so and they are still illegal, it is just ridiculous, I find it unfair, some not even speak spanish just like Barsch can’t speak German and I have learned of cases in which some of those whose illegality was discovered while getting a job or doing very small things, things that you and I did when we were younger have been sent back to the “unknown” to a place they don’t really belong to, where they have no relatives anymore, I don’t know you all but this system for me is not working, I agree with punishing the criminals, we should not even have them here, there should be international agreements in place in which if anyone is proven guilty of a crime should be immediately sent back at the other country’s expense and such agreement should include that the criminal pays the time due in their own jails, there are ways to solve the issues as I see it, there is no will from the government to do it, democrat or republican, this country like any other is run by the rich who will not pile up more money if there is not poor people working almost for free for them. I mentioned cubans back there somewhere see what happened to Florida? Miami is a different world from Arizona and California, the diference is the vast majority of the latinos in Miami are cubans therefore legal, did not they come just like everybody else now or in the past by water, land or air? but there was a way for them to become legal and work their way into society, I think Mexicans are needed just like you and me and if not they are not a burden to anyone if they are legal and contribute to everything else we do.

Posted by: Rafael at January 10, 2006 10:56 AM
Comment #111847

“I agree with punishing the criminals, we should not even have them here”

Illegally entering a country is a crime. If you commit a crime, you are a criminal.
If you wish to become an American citizen, start by proving you won’t be a criminal, by following the proper procedures for becoming an American.
If you can’t obey our laws, we don’t need you.
We already got all the criminals we need.

Posted by: kctim at January 10, 2006 11:15 AM
Comment #111853

Lock down the borders and kick all of the illegal scum out!

Can anyone out there come up with a good reason why our elected officials have not militarized the borders of the country? Can anyone think of a more important issue facing us at the moment? This nonsense of criminals coming to our beloved country is getting old! They violate the law of the land, and as much as those of the SocialCrat persuasion would have us to believe that there are no such things as borders, “only lines on a map” this is a country of law, and if you violate, break, ignore, or evade the law you are a criminal.

These criminals are bankrupting the country at an alarming rate, just look at the Left coast of California (Soon to be Mexifornia), and the Gateway cities (cities that encourage vermin by not arresting them, and assisting them in skimming our system dry) continue to allow these vermin to propagate and even help them to get into the “social safety net” system and protect them form the proper officials.
When an illegal vermin goes to the local redistribution center (read welfare center) for free medical care, food, free money (well not free, we pay for it as legal citizens) There are signs that clearly say “we will not report your immigration status to anyone” the fact that the redistribution center will not call the proper authorities to remove said vermin is outrageous!
Police are prohibited from asking about immigration status in the gateway cities (Houston TX, this is an official policy! Call for yourself, you will be nonplused!)

We have a long standing tradition of legal immigration, which I am not opposed to, these immigrants came in, legally, went through the process, and contributed to our society, and they did not ask for special designations. They worked their tails off to make a life for themselves and their children, to these I welcome as fellow Americans. I applaud your effort, and your determination, you are an inspiration to the rest of us, and what the rest of the world should aspire to.

The current vermin come in, and if they do work, they do so at a sub human wage, which is a good indication of lack of mental stability, or just a mark of desperation, which is not a good reason to subject oneself to abysmal conditions, bordering on slavery, and a good reason to give them the boot back to whence they came.
However this is not all about the cheep labor and poor helpless people as the Democrats would have you believe (And the scum that employ the vermin are to blame as well, and should have their assets seized to compensate the taxpayer burden they help incur).
A large portion of these vermin are just that vermin. They are criminals, not only for violating the sanctity of our borders, but they are raping, murdering, and pillaging this great land at an alarming rate! Do you presume to be so naive that you really think that only those looking for a better life come across the border? Oh they are looking for a better life and an easy target, and here in America, a large portion of the populace has willingly laid down its arms!
These well meaning people are those who would think the police or government has the responsibility for their personal safety, not themselves, making them easy targets (Guns are evil only if you have no guns)
I am not a racist as the leftist would say (I know that one is coming) I am an American, and all Americans should band together and let a cry issue forth to our leaders that this must stop!
I am a former corrections officer, and I tell you this, the prisons are rampant with illegal criminals, the above mentioned rapist, murders and general miscreants, and these are just the ones that we know about! Not the other 7,000,000 that we have no idea where they are at.

We can stop this problem; it is called a 25’ fence with a 30’ foot center section equipped with a lethal electric fence 12’ tall with 6’ contact plates to either side (used in maximum custody prisons) and backed by another 25’ fence! Guard towers at regular intervals, and shoot all in the middle section not using a legal border crossing point! What is so hard about this?
Kind, NO, compassionate, NO, but when is enough, enough? When did it become the duty of the United States of America to keep the world’s populace? Why should we sacrifice our standard of living to these who care nothing for our laws, or our way of life? Should we not instead be concentrating on making our land better, that our prosperity will be around to be enjoyed by our children?

Sean

Posted by: Sean at January 10, 2006 11:19 AM
Comment #111855

Jack,

“I seem to recall there being illegal aliens in the U.S. before the Bush Administration,”

Nice try Jack. If you read the post I think the discussion was on the post-9/11 border situation and deportation issues under the Bush administration, you know after the year 2000.
I thought we were talking about recent events. The post did not focus on the last 20 years of border security so I didn’t think I needed to go back that far.
This administration has done such a poor knee-jerk reactionary job of addressing border security and homeland security that I felt compelled to mention this.
Think about the poor job being done to keep this nation secure.The airline industry alone is no safer than pre-9/11. 5yr olds on no-fly lists. Lack of inspection of large containers that could actually hold explosives versus the thorough inspection of you shoes. Allowing sharp objects back on planes.
The Mexican border is wide open. It is wide open, post 9/11 due to the Bush administrations failure to put the needs of the people before the needs of the wealthy. The guest worker program benefits those who can exploit cheap labor and the illegal immigrants, not the American people.
By the way, more and more people are under the impression that “Bush is bad”,Or at the very least doing a bad job.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at January 10, 2006 11:21 AM
Comment #111875

Sean,

You are one-hundred per cent correct.

This is an identical issue France is facing at the moment, which I’m apart of. They claim “Diversity is our Strength”, yet, Europe wasn’t dealing with gang-rapes until Islamic scumbags came in, en masse, due to liberal policies with the border.

It’s getting better in France, though not nearly satisfactory. Jean-Marie Le Pen will likely never be elected, though, the Union for Popular Movement (a coalition of three center-right parties, with Nicolas Sarkozy as the next successor) is beginning to get serious (even if President Chirac isn’t.) It’s scary to think that 1/3 French people openly describe themselves as ‘racist’ due to the many years this has been going on.

The press is continually covering up this situation (Le Figaro, Le Monde, BBC, Fox News, CNN, et la.)

The riots that went on in France has been happening for years, first off. It was simply more organized this time around, with many more scum involved. It wasn’t as selective or as daily of an occurance as before. Moreover, the recent train hijacking and rapes was spun to the point of nausea to me. What they don’t tell you is: there were likely fifty Moslems, minimum, on that train. Being in France as many times as I have been, I know Moslems look out for Moslems. There weren’t fifty culprits, but there were, minimum, fifty making sure no one moved. That’s why there wasn’t an overthrow; not to mention the fact that no one knew if one had a bomb or not.

Another laughable issue is how the press blatantly covered up the background of the rioters. THEY CAN DO IT: THEY WANT TO END RACISM AND GET JOBS. That’s bunk. Most of these vermins don’t have work because they don’t want work and disrespect the customs of the host nation. Moreover, EIGHTY PER CENT OF THE RIOTERS ALREADY HAD A CRIMINAL BACKGROUND. That’s something the press didn’t tell you. Marxism, projectory terms such as ‘racist’ and political correctness is far from a silly left-wing policy. These are very dangerous weapons. One reason why many of the English aren’t voting for the British National Party en masse is because they don’t want to be labeled as racist. “Death to the West” indeed.

My theory on the 2007 elections is: Jean-Marie Le Pen will score another upset and make it to the second-round. I honestly don’t believe the left-wing is going to gain ground on this (they did in 2004) because the issue will be crime. That was the issue in 2002 which shocked Europe, as Le Pen ousted Lionel Jospin in the first round to take on Chirac (as he lost by a land-slide.) Nicholas Sarkozy will get in the second-round (unless he loses to Dominque de Villepin, which isn’t likely, considering Sarkozy’s popularity amongst the Union for Popular Movement.) By the way, Sarkozy is an Americanophile, so he’ll be much more easy to deal with than Chirac, who Chirac has a vision in foreign policy of Multipolarity, which is completely antithetical to Neoconservatism. The first-round will happen in April. If Le Pen (or whoever) gets past ten per cent (he enjoys a twenty-four per cent approval rating), he’ll get to the second rounds. This is where it gets good. The Moslems (allied with the left-wing, which shows how treasonous the left-wing is, as the Moslems back there are completely antithetical to the left-wing utopia, besides the welfare checks they get), are going to have to pick: an ultra-right conservative like Jean-Marie Le Pen who is intent on booting every Moslem out of France or the evil Jew, Nicholas Sarkozy, who is hell-bent on being American friendly at that. This will cause riots and the French may simply flip out and say “look, this has gone on long enough, we know Le Pen has been right after all of these years and it would be too much of a risk to vote in a hardline Conservative like Sarkozy, who honestly, despite being a good and tough politician, isn’t going to boot Moslems, en masse. Le Pen may simply be the guy because he’s the only one who will surely get all of them out, even revoking French citizenships.” We may very well see an epoch in 2007 as far as immigration goes.

The scary issue in England is the next Conservative in line after Tony Blair believes in an open-borders policy, which is a recipe for disaster. I’ve spoken with several Conservatives in England who refuse to conform to such and will vote for the neo-Nazi, British National Party.

A funny factor in immigration is: for each 1% of turd world immigrants which come into a first world nation (the United States, France, Germany, England, et la.), the standard deviation in IQ lowers. I recommend reading “The Wealth of Nations and IQ.” Neo-liberal (free-trade globalists) believe freedom equates to success. I won’t argue with that, though I believe in a racial theory shouldn’t be dismissed entirely either. The left is too Nihilist on race, tradition, culture and heritage to really understand the implications of such destruction we are facing today.

The left is beginning to cry for population control. I negate such idiocy. What we do need is POPULATION QUALITY. One reason why I love Pat Buchanan is: he doesn’t want the US to lose it’s Anglo-American tradition. Anyone who does want that lost (many, particularly quite a few on the left-wing are cheering this on) are spitting on the Founding Fathers of this great nation.

I do believe the most powerful vote a Republican can make in 2008 is to stay home. I don’t see any Republican, as far as being a serious contender, doing anything about the borders other than a petty reformation. Case in point, one reason why I support the National Front and Le Pen over Sarkozy is because France doesn’t need a petty reform. It needs to get rid of the problem once and for all. Le Pen is the only one willing to do such a thing. We don’t need another President Bush or Governor Romney. We need to stay home and let the Republicans know, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. We need to learn that putting an extra 5,000 policemen on the border will not accomplish anything. We need to do what Sean says and add a shoot and kill policy if necessary. It may be harsh, but I’ll tell you one thing: they will learn not to cross the borders any longer.

I applaud Sean for his attacks against such policies. We must learn that: in order to preserve our nation and have a form of national identity, we must protect the borders as well. I scold at the Conservatives who support President Bush’s Patriot Act and they also don’t care for the borders either. I scold even more at the liberals who argue over the Patriot Act, wish that we’d be secured by domestic security and don’t care for the borders either.

Greed is what destroyed the Anglo-American fabric due to slavery in this nation. Greed of colonization has hurt Europe as well. We must not allow greed, for a slight, short-term economic advantage, destroy the nation we have left.

Posted by: Jean-Marie Le Pen at January 10, 2006 12:01 PM
Comment #111876

I agree to Andre..and agree to close the borders, militarize them if you will, I just don’t agree to kill or mistreat anyone for trying to get to paradise and to: “kick the ilegal scum out”, because almost all of those people are not scum and had no way to come legally because there is not a legal way available, do you guys know mexico does not even participate in the lottery of visas anymore? and there is not a program for Mexicans to legalize once here, there has never been plus they are already here, they have been here for decades following our same way of life and respecting our laws, how does that affect anyone if they are legalized on the contrary we will know who they are where they are at and will force them to pay for taxes and what not that everybody else pays, it could be your english speaking, american looks neighboor nextdoor, no matter where he or she is from just like these students Barsch or Apodaca, how could these boys possibly be a threat to anyone? or why are they addressed as scum? I prefer them over any other “american” that spends the life blaming other people for problems that concern the government and hating them just for not looking the same, guys it is not them but the rulers we need to put pressure on.

Posted by: Rafael at January 10, 2006 12:01 PM
Comment #111877

Sean,

“cities that encourage vermin.”

“Lock down the borders and kick all of the illegal scum out!”

“A large portion of these vermin are just that vermin. They are criminals, not only for violating the sanctity of our borders, but they are raping, murdering, and pillaging this great land at an alarming rate!”

I want to thank you for making my day. I haven’t been to a good Klan rally in a long time. You brought back some great memories. I still get chills at a good lynching.(Like there’s such thing as a bad one)

“the prisons are rampant with illegal criminals,”(This one cracked me up)
you do realize that prisons are supposed to be rampant with criminals, all kinds of criminals.
Is there a legal criminal?

“7,000,000 that we have no idea where they are at.”

They are all moving to the city or town nearest you, right now as we speak.

“Kind, NO, compassionate, NO,”
Hell there’s too much of that kindness and compassion in the world, besides they are after all “vermin.”

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at January 10, 2006 12:03 PM
Comment #111888

Andre,

I want to thank you for making my day. I haven’t been to a good Klan rally in a long time. You brought back some great memories. I still get chills at a good lynching.(Like there’s such thing as a bad one)

You used an argumentum ad-hominem, so you’re dismissed.

Why should we give them special treatment?

Why do words such as that even bother you?

What does this have to do with the KKK?

HELLO, THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

For you to criticize him for saying ‘vermin’ proves my point about how DESTRUCTIVE the left-wing and social Marxists ,such as yourself, are. You try to silence people by using pitiful ad-hominems.

There are many cruel things going on in the world and one that I oppose are corporations exploiting these people for three cents an hour. If the corporation would pay a lot more, 1.) many wouldn’t come here to begin with (yes, these vermins and parasites only come here for economic prosperity, not to be an American for the sake of being an American) and 2.) it’d cut their profits, which would put more democratic powers back into the majority’s hands. He didn’t call them ‘niggers’, ‘wetbacks’, ‘spicks’, ‘gooks’, ‘kikes’ or anything else close to it. He called them ‘vermin’, which isn’t even a racial epithet, as proven with his many more fine points throughout. His issue is economic and the fact that they don’t, per capita, contribute much to society. They hinder OUR progress. Did he say Mexicans shouldn’t come into this country? No; he said they should come in here illegally.

I spit on such liberal ad-hominems that you give. For that reason and that reason alone, I may not have a nation to live in (albeit, the United States or France, which makes me very fortunate to have two) because you strive on pounding a phony conscience into people so you can promote your anti-populist agenda. Your rhetoric is causing destruction to our nations and sister-nations.

Why doesn’t the left-wing be honest for once (not all, but we know who the culprits are)?

Why will they not say “we want people to come here illegally because they’ll vote for Democrats, make sure they piss the majority and Conservatives off even more, feed off of welfare, won’t vote for the Republicans (or for the right-wing when it comes to other nations in general) and because I don’t have the foresight to see the benefits and value of race, tradition, culture and heritage.”

See, many on the left-wing want to attack Christian lobbies (fine, I’m not a fan of them either, as I’m a Deist, but I know the alternatives), but the Conservatives fail to argue that they would rather support porn and Playboy as being ‘progressive.’

One of my priorities is caring for the security of any nation. We don’t NEED to take away rights from anyone; if you control who is and who isn’t in this nation, we and the government itself will have a much more easy time dealing with such issues as we deal with, as far as crime-rate, education, poverty and many other issues that affect the social fabric of this nation (I cite population quality over population control.)

Of course, as a liberal will say, “I’m not racist, I’m an anti-racist.” That’s naive. The irony is anti-racism is typically shyster. The race card will always be played; it simply is against white people in general. If this nation had between twelve and forty-million French people coming in this nation, you could bet your bottom dollar the average liberal wouldn’t have a problem with calling them ‘vermin.’ Of course, being that a Mexican has a darker skin tone, speaks a foreign language and has values which are completely antithetical to ours’s (I cite the left-wing allying with the Moslems, which shows their true colors), they’re a-okay with them.

Posted by: Jean-Marie Le Pen at January 10, 2006 12:33 PM
Comment #111891

There are few such exceptions.
They could be dealt with.
Obviously, children are not guilty for what their parents do.

The real problem is out-right illegal trespassing:
_______________________________________
[] On 13-Nov-2005, Brian Jackson, a Dallas policeman was shot and killed by an illegal alien, Juan Lizcano. Lizcano had become drunk and went to the home of his ex-girfriend to threaten her. As the police pursued Lizcano after he fled the woman’s home, he shot Officer Jackson, who died later in the hospital. Officer Jackson was remembered by his fellow police as someone who loved his job and always went the extra mile.
[] Then, there is Jorge Hernandez, aka Jorge Soto, who killed Min Soon Chang, an 18-year-old college freshman, in a terrible head-on wreck while Hernandez was driving drunk. He had been arrested 3 previous times for drunk driving in 3 other states, and he had been deported to Mexico 17 times! Don’t you wonder why illegal aliens aren’t deported instantly after being arrested for drunk driving?
[] Debbie Thomas, who was the mother of three, was killed in a head-on collision on Christmas Eve 2003 when her car was struck by a car being driven in the wrong direction by illegal alien, Narciso Garcia-Jimenez. He later escaped from his hospital bed and is still at large. The car he drove had no inspection sticker and was registered to another person. When Debbie’s mom learned that her daughter’s killer survived and escaped after being treated at the hospital, she said she felt “angry, bitter and sad, all at once.”
_______________________________________
Those are all crimes that should have never happened. Those are crimes allowed by government. What good is a national defense if criminals are able to cross our borders any time they please (every day)?

Bush (recently, when his poll numbers were in the toilet) said he would add more persons to patrol borders, but government still refuses to find and prosecute those that illegally employ illegal aliens. So, Bush’s gesture is worthless.
And, he’s a lot of gall to call the Minute Men vigilantes. He should tell it to the family of the Dallas policeman murdered by an illegal alien.

Bush is a hypocrite. They now want to give guest working passes to illegal aliens. That’s a slap in the face of the millions that annually played by the rules and immigrated legally.

Congress is bought-and-paid-for by corporations that employ illegal aliens, and bought-and-paid-for politicians don’t want to make their big-money-donor puppeteers angry.

_____________________________________________
But, rather than do what many do and simply bitch about this problem, I will also provide a simple, doable solution that isn’t that expensive and uses resources we already have:

We have 2.6 million active, guard, and reserve troops. We could station a measely 1% (26,000) troops along our 6500 miles of land boarders (that’s one troop every 1320 feet). We could place stations every 10 miles (650 stations). It would not cost that much, because it would use a lot of troops and resources we already have. These stations could utilize equipment they already have, such as night-vision, humvees, helicopters, radar, electronic surveillence, etc. It’s doable, so the excuses to not do it are false. By the way…measure the cost against the crimes listed above, and the fact that Al-Qaeda has already been discovered to be crossing out borders.
__________________
But, this problem, and many others like it will continue to be ignored by bought-and-paid-for incumbents in government, until voters eventually get fed up with it, and vote them all out, and replace them with someone that isn’t bought-and-paid-for.

This is just another of many serious problems facing the nation that can never be resolved without first making a fundamental change to create more responsible and accountable government.

That can only happen (peacefully) if the voters do what they were supposed to be doing all along: vote out irresponsible incumbents.

Hence, perhaps it’s time to try something new.
Not simply vote anti-incumbent to oust irresponsible government.
But, keep doing it every election, until government accomplishes a few no-brainer, common-sense, un-contentious tasks (i.e. a To-Do-List) to let the people see what is really happening, and provide a way to know exactly who is or is not responsible.

Give Congress a very simple test.
Ask Congress to do these things now.

[1] CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM
[2] ONE PURPOSE PER BILL
[3] BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT
[4] STOP PLUNDERING SOCIAL SECURITY
[5] SIMPLIFY THE TAX SYSTEM
[6] ENFORCE THE LAW (which also means stop illegal trespassers)

Who could argue against anything in that list?
Incumbents perhaps ? Of course they will.

There’s no mystery why bought-and-paid-for incumbents so highly prize their cu$hy, coveted seats of power. If government is FOR SALE, it is rotten.

And, if Congress refuses to do these things, hopefully voters will continue to oust irresponsible incumbents. The last hope for reform depends on the voters to do the one thing they were supposed to be doing all along. Do the most simple, logical, safe, non-partisan, responsible thing to make government responsible and accountable too!

Posted by: d.a.n at January 10, 2006 12:45 PM
Comment #111898

My parents and I went through great lengths to come here legally. And this debate worries me on both ends. First you have those that support turning a blind eye to immigration. That bothers me, because I worked hard to be here legally and feel that the laws must be obeyed.

Second and more distrubing is some of the right’s reaction. Almost like a thinly veiled layer of bigotry under the guise of patriotism. That just doesn’t fly by me.

Really the solution is to go after those who employ illegal workers. If you cut off the job market they will stop coming, but the job market for illegal workers is huge and growing.

What we see in this article is the american people that have never had to deal with the INS see what it’s like to deal with the INS. I’ve dealt with them for most of my life and stories like this are a dime a dozen. My reaction was, “Boo-freakin’-hooo.” I’ve heard and seen much worse. It’s just INS, it’s always been this way and until INS changes it will always be this way.

Now as for my last question, would you really care so much if his name was Manuel Rodriguez and he was hispanic? Because I can tell you that I’ve known of plenty of young hispanic men that thought they were legal, and this exact thing happened to them. So why didn’t you write something up about them? Perhaps because hispanic men being deported after thinking they were legal=A-OK. White people being deported after thinking they were legal = OH NOES!!! RACISM!!!

Posted by: chantico at January 10, 2006 1:31 PM
Comment #111900

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

—-

I don’t see an expiration date on this.

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 1:44 PM
Comment #111902

We are far from the subject now, which was if the authority is biased against white people….the one mentioning the lynchings is no less criminal than the ones crossing borders, citing hispanics that have commited crimes is useless, hispanic population in jails are directly proportional to population and are far less than blacks and whites, so no race is less bad, there is no such thing as a perfect race, every race has good and bad people, people from other countries that are here illegally should be sent back when found guilty of a crime as I said before at the other country’s expense and there should be agreements for these countries to assure that these people pay the time, that way we keep only the good people, I know INS has changed the law recently and people that has been deported after been found guilty of a crime are acknoledged that if they get caught here before the penalty time will go to jail for ten years if they comeback to the u.s., some comeback and we pay taxes for them to live for free for ten years when it should be their country paying for this. Rafael.

Posted by: rafael at January 10, 2006 1:50 PM
Comment #111904

Tony good quotation. Rafael.

Posted by: rafael at January 10, 2006 2:02 PM
Comment #111909

Jean-Marie, I somehow doubt the veracity of your facts when they do not even make sense. You say

A funny factor in immigration is: for each 1% of turd world immigrants which come into a first world nation (the United States, France, Germany, England, et la.), the standard deviation in IQ lowers.

If the standard deviation in IQ lowered, that would mean that the population is becoming more homogenous with respect to IQ. It does not reflect whether or not the average IQ is changing.

Posted by: Erika at January 10, 2006 2:12 PM
Comment #111929

I live in the general area of this young man, you might be interested in the latest news, especially since it appears he is not going to be deported. He can return to Germany voluntarily after graduation and avoid the ten year penalty to return to the US according to his attorney.

Toledo Blade

Posted by: Lisa Renee at January 10, 2006 3:30 PM
Comment #111941

I never said any “race” should stay out, all who chose to not come under our law, should be removed. Bush and any other person who does not enforce the law on this is WRONG. I Welcome all who want to be here, and come in the legal way. I extend an open invitation to all who have done so, to my table, welcome brothers and sisters.

Sean

Posted by: Sean at January 10, 2006 4:02 PM
Comment #111942

Lisa,

I came across that article in the process of writing this post. One observation of it: you can be illegal and not be deported. This just fortifies how the United States has an anything-goes immigration policy.

Posted by: Mike Tate at January 10, 2006 4:06 PM
Comment #111943

Tony:

There’s no expiration because it’s a poem, not a law.

We need to take a serious look at our immigration policies, take out loopholes (like guest worker programs now being used or suggested), make a viable immigration policy and then ENFORCE IT.

Part of that should be making it illegal to hire illegal aliens (knowingly or unknowingly - there are ways to find out), with punishment that hurts the lawbreaking company, not a slap on the wrist.

Secure our borders, and I personally think that children born here to illegal (or undocumented) aliens should have no instant citizenship.

Once we get control of our own country, perhaps we could re-evaluate. Unless we get serious, nothing is going to change.

Prison and then deportation. If we don’t secure our borders it will be another fight we can never win, sort of like the war on terror, it will go on forever.

Posted by: womanmarine at January 10, 2006 4:06 PM
Comment #111948

Mike, I can’t disagree with you that our immigration policy is a mess. There have been times when people are treated differently, many times unfairly. It unfortunately appears to boil down to how much public outcry can you make about a case rather than handling each case on the same merits.

Living here, this story was one that was covered daily by tv and radio so I wasn’t sure if you were aware of the local article.

I’d also point out though that most illegal immigration issues could be solved if those who employ illegal aliens were the ones fined/prosecuted/charged. If there were no people willing to hire illegal aliens there would be a much smaller illegal immigration problem.

Personally I felt in this case the government was being unfair especially since Manuel had tried to resolve this. It was not as if he was alluding anyone. While I realize the chances of him being able to become a citizen without first returning to Germany are slim, I am glad that at least it appears he is not going to be deported.

Posted by: Lisa Renee at January 10, 2006 4:18 PM
Comment #111949

Ultimately, this is a question of law. Clear law exists regarding both legal and illegal immigration.Comparing Immigration to politics and religion is viable. There are definate problems with religion in that people take the establishment clause to mean different things. Politics is too big a subject to draw any real comparisons. This is the way it SHOULD go:
1.We are a country governed by law.
2.For law to have any meaning, it must be equally enforced.
3. Clear law exists regarding immigration.
4. Enforce the law as it exists.

Its really not a difficult concept. If we choose to not enforce some law, all law will suffer. Who is to choose what law to enforce?

Posted by: JT at January 10, 2006 4:20 PM
Comment #111951

There are some truly disgusting comments in this thread.

The vast majority of people that cross the borders and enter this country do so to find employment and to make money to support their families.

Is it wrong? Perhaps. I’m not so quick to judge others born into poverty (and into a country with such little opportunity) when I was lucky enough to be born into a stable environment as a child in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

Posted by: mattLaw at January 10, 2006 4:26 PM
Comment #111953

Jean-Marie le Pen–

Of course, as a liberal will say, “I’m not racist, I’m an anti-racist.” That’s naive. The irony is anti-racism is typically shyster. The race card will always be played; it simply is against white people in general. If this nation had between twelve and forty-million French people coming in this nation, you could bet your bottom dollar the average liberal wouldn’t have a problem with calling them ‘vermin.’ Of course, being that a Mexican has a darker skin tone, speaks a foreign language and has values which are completely antithetical to ours’s (I cite the left-wing allying with the Moslems, which shows their true colors), they’re a-okay with them.

Mexicans have values “which are completely antithetical to ours?”

That’s absolutely ridiculous. How many Mexicans do you know?

Posted by: mattLaw at January 10, 2006 4:32 PM
Comment #111957

“Personally I felt in this case the government was being unfair especially since Manuel had tried to resolve this. It was not as if he was alluding anyone. “

My whole point is however, I’ve known hispanics in this same situation that were forced out of the country (they had to go through much the same process Manuel has to) but none of those “american as pie” guys made it to the republican column. I wonder why…..

Posted by: chantico at January 10, 2006 4:38 PM
Comment #111959

Bartsch was brought into the country by his step-grandfather with a visa. He came in legally but I take it that the visa expired and his grandfather never renewed it or tried to get citizenship for his grandson. It would seem to me that the grandfather should be held responsible for this.
Apodaca it would appear came into the country illeagally. He should be deported if this is true.
The difference is Bartsch most likely won’t work as cheap as Apodaca so he needs to be deported. While Apodaca who will work for less than minimum wage needs to have every right of a US citizen.
BTW, why is Apodaca attending school in this country anyway. He’s NEVER been here leagally.


Posted by: Ron Brown at January 10, 2006 4:39 PM
Comment #111962

Andre, rafael, and chantico already said all that needs saying here. Tony — I love that poem and I agree there should be no expiration date upon it.

Mike Tate — I’ve noted that many of your posts focus on immigration and multiculturalism and your obvious hostility toward both. So, I’ve got three questions for you:
1. Where does that hostility come from?
2. Do you know many who emigrated from other countries to come live in America?
3. Are you proud of displaying an unfriendly and intolerant attitude toward people who come from diverse cultural backgrounds as shown in many of your articles for WB?
Just curious.

Like a very large percentage of Americans born in this country, my people come from an immigrant background (Scottish, French, Italian). So does my husbands family who are Jewish (Russian, Eastern European). So does both of my brother-in-laws (one who was born in Wales and emmigrated here when he was 16, the other whose grandparents came here from Germany). I live in the SF Bay Area, and I literally have friends who emmigrated here from all over the world, as well as those who were born in America and who are from diverse cultural backgrounds.
Therefore, I have a lot of trouble understanding how anyone could think that immigrants are a bad thing for this country. Instead, I believe that a large diversity of people and cultures is one of the reasons this country so great — not to mention, so interesting.

Posted by: Adrienne at January 10, 2006 4:44 PM
Comment #111963
He’s a good ol’ American boy who plays football, has a girlfriend, and works hard in school. He’s about as American as Apple Pie.

Mike,

What makes him “as American as Apple Pie”? Because he is white? What if he were hispanic in the exact same situation. Would you still call him American Apple Pie? I don’t think there is an immagration policy bias, I think there is a media bias. Just because this is the case being highlighted by the press, that does not mean that there aren’t others.

A few months ago Dateline NBC did a piece on media bias when covering missing persons cases. Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, JonBenet Ramsey, Elizabeth Smart and Natalee Holloway all young, white, pretty females who went missing and recieved much media attention. Does that mean that other groups just don’t go missing? No, more than half of missing people are male and nearly three in 10 are black. So, is this really a case of immigration policy bias, or a case of media bias?

Sean,

Why do you think this is a Democrat problem? It seems to me that if the Republicans were serious about protecting the country they would have already done something about the border problem. Don’t forget they control both houses and the White House. Republicans are in a tough situation, they pay border security lip service, but they are not willing to act on it because it would stop the flow of cheap labor to their corporate buddies.

In fact Democrats have proposed increasing Border Patrol agents, and creating a unified system for keeping track of who enters and exits the U.S., including creating a terrorist “watch list” to stop terrorists from entering America in the first place. The Democrats have also proposed increasing the Coast Guard by 15 percent and upgrading their fleet of ships and patrol aircraft in half the time of current plans, which are currently 5 years behind schedule. They propose increasing security at America’s ports by installing cameras, building fences and posting additional gaurds. Today, only 5% of cargo entering the U.S. is inspected. Democrats want Customs inspectors permanently stationed at high-risk ports abroad and the installation of systems to track every container and ship entering U.S. ports, so that 100 percent of cargo entering the country is screened.

Posted by: JayJay Snowman at January 10, 2006 4:45 PM
Comment #111966

One of the articles in the initial post makes an excellent, and often overlooked, point:

Employers want cheap labor and consumers want cheap houses, roads and agricultural goods. Politicians are unwilling to deny them those, Meissner said, but haven’t been willing to reform the law
.

Many Americans believe they are against guest worker programs (and immigration generally) in theory, but they might not actually anticipate the reality of what the situation without such workers might mean.

Posted by: mattLaw at January 10, 2006 4:49 PM
Comment #111971

Adrienne,

I believe that some on the right feel that Christianity is threatened by the cultures of others and diversity scares them. I’m definitely against illegal immigration and believe there should be strict border security in place. But those who seek to immigrate to this country legally have much to offer to our society as a whole.

Posted by: JayJay Snowman at January 10, 2006 4:58 PM
Comment #111973

Hello,
I for one am not going to bash any particular race or heritage, however I do agree with closing down our borders. I also agree with the person who cruelly put it, if you enter this country illegally you are a criminal and should be subject to the full extent of the law, or something like that he said. I am willing to bet more than 75% of the people posting are from European descent. I am also betting that their forefathers entered the country legally. I have said before and I’ll say it again, as a nation we cannot put a coin in every hand that’s in our face. I’m sorry some people were born in the Congo, or the Sudan, or Mexico, or San Salvador, or wherever, that’s their life and they have to live it, sorry. I would be willing to help the victims of Katrina, or the farmers in the midwest, hell I sent money to the coalminers, tradegies for sure. American tradegies. I have a hard time reconsiling the needs of others when so many Americans are needy.
I say close the borders and take care of our American families.
Steve

Posted by: Steve at January 10, 2006 5:02 PM
Comment #111974

I will still always find motivation with the Statue of Liberty. We will always be richer by a strong, open policy to people immigrating here. Just the mere fact that some of these people have made it our shores proves that they are skills and dedication that we all could benefit from.

List some issues with people moving to the US.

I see nothing but positive benefits with these people. I am heavily engaged with the Hispanic population here (the fastest growing Hispanic population in the country - hint, it’s not on the west coast.) These people have a remarkable work ethic and family focus. I’ve heard amazingly dimwitted urban legends about immigrants, but never met anything close to resembling them in real life.

I think we need to separate out the fear and misinformation - we can not close off our borders and expect anything but failure.

Incest didn’t work for people in the Appalachians, it’s not going to be any better for a country.

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 5:02 PM
Comment #111975

Most illegal persons in this country are working for employers who pay them cash. They do not withhold taxes. Those employers should be prosecuted for not withholding taxes as well as hiring illegal persons and also tax evasion for not contributing their share of SS taxes. The illegal persons should be prosecuted for tax evasion and for entering the country illegally. That should put an end to that problem. After we solve that problem we can tackle the problem of millionaire sports persons using illegal drugs. But that is for another time and place.

Posted by: tomh at January 10, 2006 5:02 PM
Comment #111977

One more point to add to my comments:

I am amazed at the rich history… the stories of my grandparents and others who came to this country - with absolutely nothing - and established their roots. My family has been in the US (with the exception of my great-Grandmother from Scotland) for over 10 generations… maybe more. The didn’t enter the US legally or illegally. They simply came here and made a life for their families.

We’re now ready to deny that ability for the would-be-arriving families. Look at our history over the past 200 years, and tell me where we’d be if not for a strong influx of immigrants. Are we so willing to loose those benefits for … what exactly are we trying to avoid again?

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 5:08 PM
Comment #111979

Adrienne
Its not about immigrants, its about “illegal” immigrants.
BIG difference.

Posted by: kctim at January 10, 2006 5:14 PM
Comment #111989

Tony,
As you eloquently put it 10 generations ago, people were not illegal or legal. Today, in the fast paced US, we have progressed to establish laws to provide our citizens with the necessary securities they deserve. One of those laws involves the legal immigration from another country to this one.
Throughout the US are major cities with ethnic neighborhoods that are as proud of their heritage and work just as hard as any ethnic group you described. The Irish in Boston, the Italians in NY, the polish in Minnesota, and so on and so on, hell the quakers in Pennsylvania and Ohio are some of the hardiest working people I’ve ever seen.
Romanticing the illegal aliens with the poor me, or whoa is me, or whatever other metaphor you want to use isn’t realistic. The people are criminals, they work hard and keep their mouths shut because they don’t want to go back to where they came from. I’m sorry but I can’t get by the fact that they’re illegal. I’m all for making new US citizens, strenghten the economy, bring smiles to the childrens faces, wonderful stuff. But when I see someone jumping over a barbed wire fence, I can’t abide by that, no way Jose!
Steve

Posted by: Steve at January 10, 2006 5:34 PM
Comment #111990

Jay Jay:

“I believe that some on the right feel that Christianity is threatened by the cultures of others”

Ah, I hadn’t thought of that angle on this.

“and diversity scares them.”

Obviously you’re right, but like I said, I’m afraid I’ll never understand this viewpoint.

“I’m definitely against illegal immigration and believe there should be strict border security in place.”

I agree — with everyone saying this.

“But those who seek to immigrate to this country legally have much to offer to our society as a whole.”

Again, I agree. Xenophobia is dull and boring. Diversity of people is not only drop-dead gorgeous but wonderfully interesting.

Tony:
“I’ve heard amazingly dimwitted urban legends about immigrants, but never met anything close to resembling them in real life.”

Same here.

Posted by: Adrienne at January 10, 2006 5:37 PM
Comment #111991

Kctim:
“Adrienne
Its not about immigrants, its about “illegal” immigrants.
BIG difference.”

I understand that Tim, but I wasn’t addressing Mike about just this one article, I was adressing him because of a pattern he has displayed in his posts to this blog. I’ve got the feeling he’s a Pat Buchanan follower, so I thought I’d ask to determine whether his hostility comes from the ideas of others, or from his own experiences.

Posted by: Adrienne at January 10, 2006 5:42 PM
Comment #111992

Steve–

Then what’s wrong with a program that lets them work in the United States legally?

Fault the government for not controlling it, or fault your fellow Americans for being willing to take advantage of the lower priced goods and services that come from employing aliens. I find it difficult to place the blame on the aliens themselves, though. I’d probably do the exact same thing in their situation, were the opportunity available.

The only true way to curb immigration from Mexico is for Mexico to be a place where people have opportunities and want to stay.

Posted by: mattLaw at January 10, 2006 5:45 PM
Comment #111993

Adrienne
Gotcha. I don’t see the hostility you mention, but heh, doesn’t hurt to ask the man.

mattlaw
“I find it difficult to place the blame on the aliens themselves, though”

Why? Shouldn’t everybody involved be held responsible for their actions?

“I’d probably do the exact same thing in their situation, were the opportunity available”

And you would be a criminal.

“The only true way to curb immigration from Mexico is for Mexico to be a place where people have opportunities and want to stay”

What Mexico is or is not is up to Mexico.
What we are is where our concern should be. Stopping ALL “illegal” immigration will only better our country.

Posted by: Tim Huff at January 10, 2006 5:54 PM
Comment #111994

—-
The people are criminals,
—-

BULLSH_T. end of story - either you know them or you spout crap like this. Sorry for being harsh - but gotta call crap crap, or more people will start to believe it.

Also - where do you get ‘security’ from? Please expalin to me a single act of terrorism commited from South America - or Asia or Eastern Europe. An exceptional friend (and employee) is moving back from Ecuador this week, bringing his new wife with him. He spent every spare dime he had to bribe officials to get his wife her Visa (he’s a dual citizen.)

So, unless you think that we only need rich people moving here (and that only rich people deserve to be American) then we need to rethink our immigration policies - and by that I mean allowing many more people in easier.

At that point, maybe it makes sense to make a disticntion between legal and illegal - but for now, it should be ‘have’ and ‘have-not (yet.)’

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 5:56 PM
Comment #111995

—-
Stopping ALL “illegal” immigration will only better our country
—-

How? This didn’t make sense 100-150 years ago when most people’s families came over (yours?) it doesn’t make sense now.

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 6:00 PM
Comment #111999

Tony,
I don’t know about you, but my ancestors all came here legally just like immigrants should be doing now.

Posted by: THC at January 10, 2006 6:17 PM
Comment #112000
—- The people are criminals, —-

BULLSH_T. end of story - either you know them or you spout crap like this. Sorry for being harsh - but gotta call crap crap, or more people will start to believe it.


Just to check, you do know the definition of criminal is, “One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.” and that crime is, “An act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction.”

And as for the security reasons? Many american’s can’t distinguish between a Muslim and a Hispanic person, so a Terrorist could cross the US-Mexican border disguised as a Mexican.

Posted by: SirisC at January 10, 2006 6:25 PM
Comment #112003

Aren’t drive by shootings and killings acts of terrorism?
Aren’t shooting policemen dead acts of terrorism?
Aren’t home invasions acts of terrorism?
The above acts are committed daily in this country and in AZ it is getting to be common place. The news orgs. call the actors “undocumented persons”. That is probably true, but they are criminals first, nationality second.

Posted by: tomh at January 10, 2006 6:48 PM
Comment #112005

JayJay Snowman,

There are many Hispanics in the United States that are as American as Apple Pie.

The media bias you mention is irrelevant. This really has no effect on who the ICE choose who they deport. Interesting point, though.

Posted by: Mike Tate at January 10, 2006 6:50 PM
Comment #112006

Mike,

Your right, the media bias has no effect on who the ICE chooses to deport. That was not my point. The point is that there are most likely hundreds of similar immigration stories out there we never hear about. What made the media report on this one and not others?

Posted by: JayJay Snowman at January 10, 2006 6:59 PM
Comment #112007

—-
And as for the security reasons? Many american’s can’t distinguish between a Muslim and a Hispanic person, so a Terrorist could cross the US-Mexican border disguised as a Mexican.
—-

Seriously? And how does ‘distinguishing’ between either prevent terrorism? That’s a pretty weak excuse.

—-
I don’t know about you, but my ancestors all came here legally just like immigrants should be doing now.
—-

When did they come over? My ancestors all came over with never a concern about ‘registering’ or ‘paying VISA fees’ or even speaking English.

And why all of the discussion on Hispanic immigrants? Do you worry about the Indian or Asian or ‘undocumented’ European?

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 7:00 PM
Comment #112010

I think our immigration policy is one big joke i’ts not fair for that white kid,the feds can’t protect our southern border,and here in california they want to give illegals a drivers license,i just don’t get it! I’m a black man in south los angeles and i’m surrounded by illegal aliens and gangs,it’s time for me to go back to africa!

Posted by: Bill the great at January 10, 2006 7:08 PM
Comment #112012

tony,

You make a good point about focusing on Hispanic immigrants. It is thought that we are at a much greater risk from our northern border than from our southern. Many reports of Al Qaeda activity in South America has either been unfounded or speculation. Canada on the other had has confirmed sleeper cells, some that have been dealt with, but others may still be “sleeping”.

Posted by: JayJay Snowman at January 10, 2006 7:16 PM
Comment #112015

“Can’t you guys ever address any problem without the Bush is bad implication?” — Jack

His statements were relevant and to the point about current situations and how our current administration is highly corrupt and has very specific priorities… Money being at the top…

Jack, do all “you guys” really believe the rancid dung that’s being fed to you,,, or are you choking on it but just not aware?

Just curious.

Posted by: MJ Shaw at January 10, 2006 7:23 PM
Comment #112020

I’m not so worried about catching terrorist trying to sneak across our borders. With the money and sohpistication of recent terrorists, they can easily achieve Visas. So, do we really want to be looking the wrong way on this one?

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 7:46 PM
Comment #112028

To hear the right tell it, if we just eliminate the liberals, pinkos, homos, wetbacks, atheists, “bad” minorities, and uppity women, we’d be a perfect country. That’d also eliminate the need for this so-called diversity.

Posted by: Dedalus at January 10, 2006 8:28 PM
Comment #112029

—-
To hear the right tell it, if we just eliminate the liberals, pinkos, homos, wetbacks, atheists, “bad” minorities, and uppity women, we’d be a perfect country. That’d also eliminate the need for this so-called diversity.
—-

Then of course, with those few left - they’d either be lonely as hell, or have to turn gay.

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 8:30 PM
Comment #112030

It’s simultaneously amusing and sad when the right wingers, who have trained themselves so long and hard not to say overtly racist things as they pursue their racist agenda, slip up like Mike did by describing a white guy as American as apple pie, to contrast him with all those, you know, other colored folk. They think we don’t notice when their concern about the rights of white guys plays louder than their concern about the truly downtrodden.

Posted by: Mental Wimp at January 10, 2006 8:32 PM
Comment #112035

A comment about the ‘criminal’ aspect of these illegal immigrants…

I’m guessing you would feel that Rosa Parks is also a criminal…???

I think it’s basically pathetic that people would now classify others as criminals who are so similar to their own ancestors. I guess if you get right down to it - every single person in 1776 who fought for our independence was a criminal as well.

Damn! There’s goes the neighborhood.

I can’t find another point in time where we felt our country should become a members only, gated community. But, if we’re all in agreement that being American has too many dangers, then…

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 8:39 PM
Comment #112036

Hey, I myself am a polish immagrant, the whole system of becoming a citizen is fairly painless, i’m only 15 years old. What I can say is that the boy’s grandparents could have done a better job of making sure he was a citien however the guy would have been too young to handle it by himself, he did realise he wasn’t an immagrant till he was going to collage after all. So I don’t think that he should be deproted, at least he should be given a chance to become a citizen.
as for the hispanic, from what I think, america has a bigger problem with the border and the people going across it than having to worry about every single person going into collage, or taking the ACT

Posted by: maciej mazur at January 10, 2006 8:40 PM
Comment #112040

Poor Republicans can’t stomach having Espanol as a National Language very soon. They are now desperately trying to justify keeping the non-whites out.

Posted by: Aldous at January 10, 2006 9:09 PM
Comment #112050

I’d like to ask a question since many of you have strong views about illegal immigration. But, getting back to the heart and the underlying point of the article (which was only briefly touched upon in the comments), you have Manuel Bartsch who grew up in America for a significant portion of his life thinking he was legal. However, he and many other younger illegal aliens like him find out much later about their status.

This is problematic. The law is the law, yes, but you have a new growing problem in which teens are basically sent back to countries that they do not know because they were brought here by their parents. That’s really nuts especially if you don’t know the language, the area, or have any family in that area. Do any of you feel that these kids should be deported anyway? Or if something else should be done? I know of the DREAM Act, etc., but it’s been around for several years without any kind of movement (and I doubt it’ll actually pass).

Posted by: Anne at January 10, 2006 9:29 PM
Comment #112056

Anne:

They should be deported anyway. If the children stay, they will just use our tax dollars to care for them. Our Public Schools are already overloaded with these free-loaders!!! Not to mention our Hospitals. Why do these illegals think they should get free medicine, anyway? For every Illegal Kid you coddle, the rest of us real Americans get less.

They are better off going to their homeland where their own Government will care for them.

Posted by: Aldous as a Republican at January 10, 2006 10:21 PM
Comment #112073

I feel that in most situations, the person should be given the benefit of the doubt with regards to citizenship.

Aldous:

Why do you automatically assume that ‘these people’ use our tax dollars and get ‘free medicine’? How the hell do you come to a conclusion that these people are ‘free loaders’? Is it basically because the are not ‘white’? Or is it because they are ‘foreigner’? Do you know the stats for the how many ‘illegal kids’ we are coddling? The kid in this example was preparing to go to college. Do you assume that he might be getting a ‘free ride.’

All of us ‘real Americans’ started off this way. And I’m pretty sure most of US paid our own way.

Posted by: tony at January 10, 2006 11:59 PM
Comment #112146

I can’t believe nobody mentioned this yet: It is President Bush’s policy to immediately deport non-Mexican illegal immigrants. Mexicans get a free pass if they can make it past the border.

Because detention facilities lack bed space, most non-Mexican illegal immigrants apprehended are released and directed to return for a court appearance. However, 75 percent fail to show…

Addressing this problem, the President has signed legislation increasing the number of beds in detention facilities by more than 10 percent over the next year.

The Federal government is also using “expedited removal” to detain, place into streamlined judicial proceedings, and deport non-Mexican illegal immigrants in an average of 32 days almost three times faster than the usual procedure.

So to answer the question in Mikes article: Yes, President Bush’s immigration policy is biased against whites.

As for me, I’m all for a guest-worker program. Let’s get these guys registered. We need them paying taxes so we can save Social Security.

And to you guys who disagree,

If you want to protest illegal immigration, protest everything about illegal immigration. When the local diner offers a $5.99 gut-buster breakfast, a price made possible by the Mexican busboy in front and the Mexican cook in back, slap down a $20 and say “No! Enough! I will pay $12 for this breakfast and I insist you pay a decent wage to a legal resident to cook it for me!” — then you’ll have my support.
Posted by: American Pundit at January 11, 2006 8:21 AM
Comment #112159

I’m getting tired of the come and go with abusive language, it is becoming useless to comment anymore, there is no real will to find a solution, a viable one, in which we give in a little, there is too much prejudice and ignorance about the issues sprinkled with isolated cases, it is billions of illegal immigrants from all over the world that do nothing but good to the country, including all of us yet we focus on three hispanic rotten apples, I say close the borders to illegal immigration, put a guest program in place or some way for mexicans to come over in an orderly way, we need these people accept it or not, I don’t see Ron Brown working brooming pavement to open new roads… a guy who thinks because my name is of hispanic descendance I make the minimum wage (get real), I say legalize the ones already in and this will end this circus and racism, what they are is what your family was in the past.
Adrienne, thanks for reading my post.
Tony you are a fair man.
Anne you got the point.
Maciej, Mental wimp, Jay Jay Snowman and Aldous I agree with you.

Rafael.

Posted by: Rafael at January 11, 2006 9:36 AM
Comment #112161

I agree to youy too american pundit. Rafael

Posted by: Rafael at January 11, 2006 9:38 AM
Comment #112163

Sorry, I wish to make a correction I don’t agree with Aldous. Rafael.

Posted by: rafael at January 11, 2006 9:44 AM
Comment #112172

Anne
This is problematic. The law is the law, yes, but you have a new growing problem in which teens are basically sent back to countries that they do not know because they were brought here by their parents. That’s really nuts especially if you don’t know the language, the area, or have any family in that area. Do any of you feel that these kids should be deported anyway?


Send them back and let the people there learn english. After all they come here and want us to learn their language.

Posted by: Ron Brown at January 11, 2006 10:26 AM
Comment #112173

Aldous
Thought I’d never say this. But I agree with you.

Posted by: Ron Brown at January 11, 2006 10:28 AM
Comment #112180

Read well Ron, Aldous is contradicting himself, that is why I recanted, some of what he says I agree with, some of what he says you’ll agree with, by the way irony is not a solution. Rafael.

Posted by: Rafael at January 11, 2006 10:41 AM
Comment #112196

To Rafael and anyone else who thinks Aldous was contradicting himself,

I adore Aldous! I consider him a brilliant satirist. When he sounds like a far-right winger he’s being nothing but heavily and hilariously sarcastic.
Also Rafael, I disagree that irony cannot be a solution. I think humor and satire can be a very effective way to change peoples minds. It can also point out and make folks aware of their own narrow-mindedness, inconsistencies or illogical stances on a wide array of topics.

PS, to Aldous, I believe this may be the third time I’ve felt the need to defend you to someone. Perhaps you could come up with a name for your scathing alter ego? You know, something like Jethro, or Butch, or Jughead? Just a thought. And thanks again for always making me laugh.

Posted by: Adrienne at January 11, 2006 12:34 PM
Comment #112200

Ron, You? talking about narrow-mindeness? your whole thesis is to send all the illegal back to their countries of procedence, you are talking about a massive exodus that will never happen, you are also talking about once back they can teach english to everybody else because they come here trying to teach you their languages? nobody has come to me to ever try to make me learn anything! I’m learning french because to know more is general culture, it helps you anywhere you go when you less expect it, you are a more complete person if you know other cultures, that is what had america discovered the need of powerful people on the other side of the world to know if there was more to it than just them, we don’t have to do that we have it at our fingertips and don’t appreciate it, you are xenofobic and irrealist and you don’t have a solution for immigrants wherever they come from, whites, black, brown, yellow or others, I love diversity, I love other cultures, everyone makes us greater and they are necessary… and if they come legally after putting a system in place for them to do so and closing the borders will make a difference and once everybody is legal inside the country we will certainly find another thing to be unhappy about, it never ends. Rafael.

Posted by: Rafael at January 11, 2006 12:57 PM
Comment #112202

AP:
“As for me, I’m all for a guest-worker program. Let’s get these guys registered. We need them paying taxes so we can save Social Security.”

I’m of the opinion that the guest worker program is a good way to create a poverty-stricken underclass who will be allowed only a few of the benefits of becoming a full fledged American citizens. I feel they should either be allowed to emigrate or not, rather than be made to exist in some business-serving, second-rate limbo in between.
And personally, I think that a large majority of American’s could do with a few less “gut-busting breakfasts” don’t you?

Posted by: Adrienne at January 11, 2006 1:04 PM
Comment #112203

That is what I’m talking about!!, smart opinions, wise points of view, real options and solutions. Thanks Adrienne your ideas help, Strongly Agree to your comments. Rafael.

Posted by: Rafael at January 11, 2006 1:19 PM
Comment #112221

I don’t know how to explain to others here that these ‘illegals’ represent a fantastic wealth of experience and energy. The biggest issue my company faces right now is bringing in new people into our process to prevent the company from going stale. (Most people I bring in start at $35k - or higher, with benefits.) I don’t think, with the processes we have in place that I would hire someone here illegally, so I wouldn’t loose someone crucial… but I do fear loosing the next potential crucial person.

One of my favorite employees is currently moving back here from a 4 year stay in Ecuador. He faced so many uphill battles getting back here (he’s a US citizen, but his wife is not.) So what do I do if she is forced to move back to Ecuador and they both leave? What benefit or purpose would ‘shipping them back’ provide to anyone?

Posted by: tony at January 11, 2006 2:17 PM
Comment #112255

Illegal immigrants are not scums, are not criminals,they are hard workers.The work which americans do not want it.People are sick in their minds, that kind of sickness I call it racism.Immigration is not the issue,racism is the issue.Here in america or in France,people want to export their problem and accuse wrongly illegal immigrants.In France the somehow republic failed lamentably to integrate the north african youth in their society.Why they failed, because their politician are racists and they are denying their culture.They want them to be away from their culture, religion, and language.Here in America, illgal immigrants are working very hard in construction, cleaning, farming.working long hours without interruption to help their family here or elsewhere.If there is a system to legalize them,I would say they would be a model of this great country.They are better than those who are calling them scums, and they will be better force for this country.

Posted by: karim at January 11, 2006 4:38 PM
Comment #112276

Asking people to obey the law now means one is a racist.
Yeah right, and OJ was innocent.

Posted by: kctim at January 11, 2006 5:51 PM
Comment #112283

—-
Asking people to obey the law now means one is a racist.
—-

No - but some laws support racism.

btw - How else should I interpret this quote?

—-
And as for the security reasons? Many american�s can�t distinguish between a Muslim and a Hispanic person, so a Terrorist could cross the US-Mexican border disguised as a Mexican.
—-

Posted by: tony at January 11, 2006 6:17 PM
Comment #112296

kctim–

Come on now, various comments in this thread went above and beyond “asking someone to obey the law.”

Referring to such people are “vermin,” or claiming that Mexicans have values “which are completely antithetical to ours?”

Posted by: mattLaw at January 11, 2006 7:10 PM
Comment #112297

Tony and Karim

Does an Indonesian terrorist look like an Arab?
Does an Philipino terrorist look like an Arab?
Too many people think that all terrorists look Arabic. There are terrorists all over the world who do not look middle-eastern. As far a illegal immegration is concerned, I think everybody knows that when the illegial immegrant sets food inside the US he has now committed a crime. Simply put, that makes him a criminal. I live in AZ and daily there are news items of “undocumented nationals” aka illegal immigrants who are killing, robing, raping people of all kinds. This is not a racist issue. It is a criminal issue and must be dealt with from a law enforcement perspective. Yeah, there are some who do work hard and take their money and send it back to Honduras, Mexico, or whereever. They also use our facilities at no charge, they pay no taxes except sales tax, they evade payroll and SS taxes (another item that makes them a criminal), some vote illegally, the list goes on. PROSECUTE THE EMPLOYEE AND EMPLOYER EQUALLY FOR CRIMES AGAINST THE STATE AND NATION!!!!!!

Posted by: tomh at January 11, 2006 7:10 PM
Comment #112317

—-
Tony and Karim

Does an Indonesian terrorist look like an Arab?
Does an Philipino terrorist look like an Arab?
—-

Why is this comment aimed at me…? Of course terrorists look different… actually I think it’s better to say, they look like everyone else.

Posted by: tony at January 11, 2006 7:51 PM
Comment #112353

Tomh you have got to be objective, I mentioned before crimes are directly proportional to population, there is bad people in every race or is it that there are no white rapists, killers and thieves? but according to you they do have right to do it because they are legal, is that how it works?, criminals from here or anywhere need to be punished but only very few immigrants are criminals, can’t judge the vast majority of hard working people for a few that really are criminals. Rafael.

Posted by: Rafael at January 11, 2006 9:54 PM
Comment #112361

Rafael
I’ll disregard the facetious remarks.
The illegal persons become criminals when they cross the border. That is not hard to understand. They further criminalize their characters by not paying taxes in most cases. They pay neither payroll nor SS taxes. They are evading taxes. The employers are equally responsible for criminal behavior.

Posted by: tomh at January 11, 2006 10:37 PM
Comment #112401

I cannot vote against amnesty and/or illegal immigration, then hire these same people to cut my grass or wash my car. So, I have started a trend in my neighborhood by cutting my own grass and washing and waxing my own car. Its time consuming, but the 1-2 hours per week is great exercise and calorie burning, and, more importantly, I have done my small part in not hiring illegals. I believe those who are truly against illegal immigration should do the same. Its a modest action, but collectively can make some difference.

Posted by: goprkewl at January 12, 2006 3:50 AM
Comment #112406

goprkewl, that’s a great idea. I hope you’ll also pick your own vegetables, slaughter your own livestock and cook your own meals to keep illegal immigrants out of those jobs, too. And clean up a little when you’re shopping. If we all leave Wal-Mart a little cleaner than we found it, we can keep illegals out of the janitorial industry too —In fact, I think it’s your week to clean the toilets.

It may take a little longer to buy those inexpensive Chinese-manufactured goods we all love, but it’s worth it.

I’m of the opinion that the guest worker program is a good way to create a poverty-stricken underclass who will be allowed only a few of the benefits of becoming a full fledged American citizens.

That’s a good point Adrienne… But these mostly good and hardworking people aren’t full-fledged American citizens. If they want the benefits of citizenship (which several whom I’ve spoken with do not), then they should emigrate legally.

Posted by: American Pundit at January 12, 2006 4:13 AM
Comment #112410

Anti-Eastern-European (or just anti-white)?

Having been traveling to multiple E. European countries lately, I have become amazed at how closed America is to Eastern Europeans — the one ‘white’ group who are poor and who would love to come to America for jobs, a better life, etc. …like many Hispanics. Why is the US gov’t so opposed to Eastern Europeans, who might be just as willing as ~any Hispanic to do ‘The Jobs Others Don’t Want to Do’?

E. Europeans also may be better educated, harder working, less involved in crime & drugs, more athletic, and less likely to live off our tax dollars than most other immigrants. Shouldn’t such cultural similarity be a positive trait?

Just as each of us does with guests into our homes, shouldn’t we select to welcome into our country those who we feel will make our house/country greater? …or at least, not have a racist policy for Hispanics at the expense of other(s).

However, the US Gov’t is so against these people coming into our country that Eastern Europeans generally cannot come here even on tourist visas because of the fear that they ‘might’ stay (many of these people we might want to actively recruit to come here. A level far harder than other countries / regions of the world, as I understand (I travel extensively).

Each country and each applicant is dealt with slightly differently (an executive with a 30 year career leaving his/her family behind to attend a conference (i.e., guaranteed to return) may be allowed a short visa, but nearly all young people and most others are not allowed to even travel here to spend their money on vacations and/or to see relatives here).

Ask Eastern Europeans you know (those living there please, not just the few who by school (still difficult – vs. illegal Mexican immigrants who get lower in-state tuition at all California state colleges than US citizens from any other state/territory) or marriage got here) their impression whether America will even let their country(wo)men even vacation here — all to make sure ~none of them stay. Then ask yourself if this is how biased you want America to be against Eastern European immigrants; and if you think Eastern Europeans are being treated anywhere equally to Hispanics.

Is this prejudice against Eastern Europe (cold war punishment for being communist), or prejudice against white immigration, or…? Is there any reason(s) of which I am unaware, that we should treat Eastern Europeans worse than Hispanics?

Or are we not allowing legal immigration from so many places, because there is a large political block demanding that all the immigration this country can handle (and maybe (much) more) to come from ~only Latin America (have it illegal from Mexico, so more legal immigration is not allowed from other places)?

Or…?

Posted by: Brian at January 12, 2006 4:45 AM
Comment #112414

Jean-Marie Le Pen

“You try to silence people by using pitiful ad-hominems.”


Good lord! Does anyone else get sick of idiots who use words like “ad-hominem”?

Spinning, spinning, spinning… Thick spidery webs of rhetoric make people rub their temples; it does not make you look any smarter or any move savy…

Posted by: Mac Shaw at January 12, 2006 5:06 AM
Comment #112415

Jean-Marie Le Pen

“You try to silence people by using pitiful ad-hominems.”


Good lord! Does anyone else get sick of idiots who use words like “ad-hominem”?

Spinning, spinning, spinning… Thick spidery webs of rhetoric make people rub their temples; it does not make you look any smarter or any more savy…

Posted by: Mac Shaw at January 12, 2006 5:07 AM
Comment #112431

Brian, it is not that the US is against immigration from eastern europe, is just the geographical location, Mexicans are right next door and eastern europeans are not, if eastern europe was next door white young people would be the ones jumping up the fence not mexicans, US has so much influx of unwanted immigrants that to keep the balance has to keep out people from other nationalities, if the immigration from the southern border is diminished the need of the country for cheap labor will push them to open the gates to others, immigration is a necessary evil, we are all that evil that built the nation and are daily feeding it and making it grow, again they need to put up that fence downstairs and set an orderly immigration to permanently reside program (I backed up from my idea of guest worker program thanks to Adrienne the guest worker program can create other type of social problem) plus regularize all already in because a massive exodus or deportation is not possible, it would break the economy not only because of the cost but because of the chain reaction, lack of laborers=companies nationwide going bankrupt/out of business=high prices for all, believe me it is not doable, what do you think?. Rafael.

Posted by: rafael at January 12, 2006 8:52 AM
Comment #112430

Brian, it is not that the US is against immigration from eastern europe, is just the geographical location, Mexicans are right next door and eastern europeans are not, if eastern europe was next door white young people would be the ones jumping up the fence not mexicans, US has so much influx of unwanted immigrants that to keep the balance has to keep out people from other nationalities, if the immigration from the southern border is diminished the need of the country for cheap labor will push them to open the gates to others, immigration is a necessary evil, we are all that evil that built the nation and are daily feeding it and making it grow, again they need to put up that fence downstairs and set an orderly immigration to permanently reside program (I backed up from my idea of guest worker program thanks to Adrienne the guest worker program can create other type of social problem) plus regularize all already in because a massive exodus or deportation is not possible, it would break the economy not only because of the cost but because of the chain reaction, lack of laborers=companies nationwide going bankrupt/out of business=high prices for all, believe me it is not doable, what do you think?. Rafael.

Posted by: rafael at January 12, 2006 8:52 AM
Comment #112433

So, what you’re saying is that a policy, drafted by the majority rich, white membership of the US government, is biased against whites?

Of course, if it was biased in favor of whites, then you’d be saying that it was a racist policy.

Perhaps, it’s your white/non-white point of view that’s biased.

Posted by: Luis Gonzalez at January 12, 2006 8:54 AM
Comment #112475

AP:
“That’s a good point Adrienne… But these mostly good and hardworking people aren’t full-fledged American citizens. If they want the benefits of citizenship (which several whom I’ve spoken with do not), then they should emigrate legally.”

Yes, either emigrate legally, or be kept out entirely. No matter how good or hardworking people are, if they really don’t want to be American citizens then they should be made to leave the country, for there are plenty of other good, hardworking people who would love the chance to become an American citizen. In fact, I think there are already far too many people with nonimmigrant guest worker visas in this country. Not only are they used like indentured servants by business owners (and in every kind of business from low-skilled to high tech) who give them much lower wages and make them tolerate poor working conditions, but they have also undermined the number of jobs as well as the cost of wages given to our citizens. Also, in light of the threat of terrorism and in the interest of national security, I think that there should be much closer scrutiny of those who only want to stay in America temporarily, don’t you?

Yet, in the interests of Big Business being able to make more and more profit, Bush wants to keep making it easier for people to come into the country that have no true investment in, or loyalty to, America at all. It doesn’t make sense.

Posted by: Adrienne at January 12, 2006 11:42 AM
Comment #112479

Rafael:
“I backed up from my idea of guest worker program thanks to Adrienne the guest worker program can create other type of social problem”

Rafael, you just made my day! Thanks!

Posted by: Adrienne at January 12, 2006 11:50 AM
Comment #112614

Just wondering from all of those folks who think that our “southern border” should be sealed, how many of them are business owners?? …owners of Businesses in the restaurant, construction, manufacturing (whatever is not yet in China) and any other industry that requires non-skilled workers in order to function?? If one of you is a business owner, could you afford keeping a lower price than your competition if you had to double the wages for your non-skilled laborers??



I am not saying that we shouldn’t protect our borders, but there are ways to deal with Illegal Immigration that make more “economic” sense. A “guest” program is the solution. They come to work and they leave after a period of years.

Posted by: jcr at January 12, 2006 5:27 PM
Comment #112636

By being here illegally, they are breaking the law. If there are other laws that they think are wrong, do they also ignore those? The prisons are full of people who think the law they broke is wrong. Illegal aliens should be treated no differently than any other lawbreaker. Incorporating them into the system through a guest worker program only encourages the illegal activity and rewards breaking the law. If the law is wrong, change it; if the law is right, enforce it.

Posted by: denise at January 12, 2006 6:51 PM
Comment #112988

I hate to burst your bubble, but I’ve had more than several hispanic or latino non-citizen friends who have not been able to reenter the U.S. because their paper-work or visas were not up to date— so it isn’t just poor German “white” people this happens too.

Posted by: questioningliberal at January 13, 2006 6:30 PM
Comment #122271

education & immigration

Posted by: leila at February 8, 2006 9:59 AM
Post a comment