November 06, 2005
Racism is Alive and Well, on the Left That Is
Racism is alive and well. It is living and breathing in a willing liberal press and the DNC. Many of you may have heard the Milwaukee Journal Sentinels comment of Nov. 1 in speaking to the diversity of the Supreme Court. The paper said, In losing a woman, the court with Alito would feature seven white men, one white woman and a black man, who deserves an asterisk because he arguably does not represent the views of mainstream black America.
This racist remark brought a firestorm of criticism here in the Milwaukee area and across the nation. Today the Journal Sentinel has finally responded to that criticism saying, Conservative talk radio seized on this last clause, and many respondents said they felt the line was racist, contending that we were implying Thomas is not black enough. Not at all. The sentence only meant to call attention to the lack of diversity the court will have if Alito is confirmed, a position that many others have stated as well. With the asterisk comment, we did indeed call attention in particular to Thomas, the sole African-American on the court. That's because, though much progress has been made, we continue to believe that the condition of black Americans, particularly here in the Milwaukee area, remains quite dire in many important respects and deserving of acute attention and sensitivity at all levels of government.
So the Journal Sentinel is digging in its heels and saying, yeah he is black, but he aint black enough to really be black. This is outrageous. If you are talking diversity, what could be more diverse than a black conservative? What else is the Journal Sentinel saying? Conservative talkers give the rank and file out here our marching orders, or since they are conservative their opinions mean any less? Outrageous. You national readers may have little idea of how liberal this paper is, but they continue to blast anyone who has conservative opinion of just being nutty.
Last month I wrote about the Chuckaquiddick scandal. In case you missed it, two Schumer staffers illegally obtained the credit report of Maryland Lieutenant Governor Michael Steele. This act was done to try and obtain information harmful to Steele, a rising GOP star, in his bid for The Senate. The staffers were fired, but this egregious invasion into someone’s privacy was pretty well ignored by the press and Senator Schumer who is expending considerable energy telling how dirty other people are gets a pass from the press on this.
Now we learn Steele is under attack again. The whole report is here, but it calls Steele a traitor to his race. There have also been multiple reports of Democrats showing up at Steele events and throwing oreo cookies at him. Again, the message, you may look black but you aint black.
Combine that with the ridiculous filibuster of Miguel Estrada, Harry Belafonte' calling Colon Powell an Uncle Tom, a Madison liberal talker with the Aunt Jemima thing concerning Condi Rice, etc., and we have a pattern developing.
This all started with Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill of course, believe who you will but if you recall the NAACP fought against Thomas well before Anita Hill ever came forward. Why? He was not the right kind of black. I never understood that about the NAACP, it would seem someone who worked hard, took no hand outs and reached the pinnacle of his career was exactly the kind of person the NAACP should be holding up as a hero in the African-American community. As I recall, Rush Limbaugh renamed them the NAALCP at the time, the L being Liberal of course. Nothing funnier in my opinion than the truth ignored.
It would seem to my observation that the party that trumpets diversity has egg on its face. Look at the last couple of Democratic conventions, tell me were there any pro-life speakers? Anywhere? Nope. Remember the last Republican convention, remember Ahhhnold, Zel, Rudy? All keynote types, all pro-choice. Now that shows diversity.
The current day Democratic Party only has tolerance, diversity if you will, for those that agree with their ideology. It is ok with them to play the race card whenever it suits their purpose. If you really put the ideology aside and sit back and look at what party is truly inclusive and has tolerance for persons of diverse backgrounds and ethnicity it is the Republican party.
Oh the Dems do talk a good game, but when put up comes to shut up the Republicans are the real deal.
It used to be the stereotypical liberal would say that “You have to support this person because he’s Black” and the stereotypical conservative replies “That’s just racism — you should judge him by the content of his character.”
When it comes to Black or Hispanic conservatives, the right has taken the other side of the dialogue. You refuse to recognize that a liberal can have legitimate reasons (and rather obvious ones at that) for criticizing someone like Thomas or Estrada. If you can’t critique someone’s political beliefs, then what is free speech for?
The editorial you cite is inappropriate,but the factual point they make is correct. Conservatives make similar claims about white southern Democrats, Catholic Democrats, Orthodox Jewish Democrats (Joe Lieberman), etc.
Posted by: Woody Mena at November 6, 2005 11:18 AMHeh, you beat me to the punch on this one. ;) You forgot to mention the doctoring of a picture of Condi to make her eyes look like they were evil.
Basically, as I was going to say, the left has gotten by for the past 50 years or so using the race card. But when they are up against someone of the same race, how do they handle it? Well, that’s when the Uncle Tom and Oreo comments come out, assure the others that the person in question isn’t a ‘real’ black and then still use the race card.
It’s the only trick up their sleeves it seems.
It’s also interesting considering the history of constructionism and black voters being originally 99% republican until FDR. You’d think that the black community wouldn’t forget so soon who ended contstructionism and, legalized Jim Crow laws and took away their voting power after the civil war.
Posted by: Rhinehold at November 6, 2005 11:20 AMLiberal press? lol…that’s ridiculous. Powerful Jewish folks for the most part run the media. A group of powerful Jewish men founded the Neoconservative movement, to which Bush is a staunch subscriber. Why would they work against themselves?
Posted by: DJ at November 6, 2005 11:33 AMRealDebate,
To take some anecdotes and proclaim that they are evidence that the left is inherently racist is disingenuous at best. This is the same tactic that some liberal critics use to proclaim that conservatives are bigots. If it’s wrong for them to do, how is it ok for you?
Is there hypocrisy on the left? Sure, but there’s enough to go around on both sides. If you want to write an article pointing out that the over-proliferation of entitlement programs does more to hold back the poor (who are disproportionately minorities) and thus are the equivalent of institutionalized racism, you may have something there. But the effective of this anecdotal stuff is essentially to say, the racism that exists on the right is ok because it exists on the left too. Besides, I have a feeling (and you can argue if you want) that if you go tit-for-tat you’d find more isolated examples from conservatives than from liberals.
Posted by: Adverbal at November 6, 2005 11:40 AMLaughable. Please explain how you can justify using the words in one sentence in a Milwaukie newspaper to make the patently false claim that democrats are racist. This is demogoguery of the worst kind, and yet another example of why the extreme Right has become the “hates Americans first” crowd.
Please explain the fact that the percentage of black Republican convention delegates is miniscule, but their presence on the convention podium isn’t. In the 2000 Republican convention, 85 of the 2,066 delegates were black (source). And you know what? Every one of them spoke on the podium. Isn’t that discrimination against the white delegates? Where’s your outrage at that?
Posted by: ElliottBay at November 6, 2005 11:54 AMI want someone to explain to me, specifically and preferably the JT, why I am less of a minority for my beliefs.
Adverbal, you can use “disingenuous” all you want. The fact that the JT presumes that someone should think a certain way because of their ethnicity is NO different than me saying something like “Well, my car was stolen. There is a black man that lives a few doors down. We should start questioning him or his friends first.”
Sounds racist, don’t it? That’s because it is. The problem with the left is that they have always taken the minority vote for granted. Even now, they thumb their nose at the detractors - basically saying “where else are you gonna go? GOP? HA!”
This qualifies as “being on their side?” I think its more like buying the vote. You want to go “tit-for-tat?†With pleasure. Name the appropriate time and place.
Posted by: still Unreal... at November 6, 2005 11:59 AMWhat really struck me about both the paint-catcher (I wouldn’t sully a fish by wrapping it up with that “product”) and the responses here is the attitude of, “How dare you call us racists”. Well, if the shoe fits in your mouths,….
Posted by: steveegg at November 6, 2005 12:00 PMUnreal:
I say disingenuous not because I’m defending the paper, but only because using isolated examples (whether it is 2, 20, or a hundred, does not necessarily allow one to make conclusions about a group of people as a whole.
“You want to go tit-for-tat? with pleasure. Name the appropriate time and place.”I didn’t say I wanted to fight you. I mean that, I believe, if you had the time to do the research you would find more examples of racist comments coming from folks on the right than from on the left. (Neither side is immune though.) I don’t have the time to do it so you have your opinion and I have mine. Unless someone else does have time to do the research, then you can reply to this and have the last word on the subject.
Bottom line: if you’re really against racism than rail against it regardless of who it’s coming from. Nail the individuals who are promoting hate rather than just using it as debate point to put down your political opponents.
Posted by: adverbal at November 6, 2005 12:33 PMadverbal,
That’s the problem Where are all of those on the left pointing out THIS racism? They aren’t, they are defending it.
There are many of us that rail against it on either side, but are amazed that people like ‘republicansareracists’ in another thread who like to make the blanket accusations and don’t even understand the history of racism deeply at the bottom of the democratic party. (take a look back at 1850-1940). It was only FDR that changed the tide, against the rest of the democratic party at the time…
Posted by: Rhinehold at November 6, 2005 01:34 PMIf you want to see the racial Bias… it is real easy…
Change the of party each person… Senator Robert Byrd - Formally a KKK member… But it is ok, he is “Reformed”
Senator Trent Lott, Never a KKK member, was villafied over a comment that took a team of historians to link together… not even Lott understand what he said? He was destroyed bu the left… Switch, there parties… would the same have happenned? Even you left guys know the real answer to that. If any lefty thinks what happenned to Lott was fair, you should have your head examined. His only crime was being a Republican & a powerful one at that… (Can we say “DeLay”)
Nowadays, racism is in actuality very low… O’Reilly said that 8% of the population still believe Elvis is alive, so you will always have about 8% racist in this country. Blacks have many opportunities at their disposal… and a lot of those opportunites are strickly based on race.
The only way to rid yourself of the legitimate 92% of the population vews towards race it basically stop bringing it up. Stop pointing the finger at each other all of the time. Stop assuming there is something about race prior to anything else… If was the left wing bloggers the mentioned the race facter in Hurricane Katrina… They saw it first, they made it an issue. It never really was… now you want to talk about poverty, then lets talk…
You lefties, never have been righties… you do not understand how much we are villafied by you people. I cannot count how many times a made a friend and we got along great until they found out I was conservative… How sad is that? You guys cannot even have a buddy?
I commented on this yesterday, my research was with that article… Let me throw it in here:
I have never been one to dismiss the Liberal ideology even though I do not
understand it… I only reply to this forum when I see left comments…
Because it isn’t fair to sit around and blame the right for everything… I
have always hated the hypocrisy of the left who stands for understanding for
all except Republicans… I get upset when I see articles like this:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/1/161818.shtml
Which an editorial complains about the “Diversity of the Court” and says
that Clarence Thomas gets an “*” by his name because he isn’t mainstream
black… So he is not a real black man because he is a Constructionist? I
get aggravated when I se the left make fun of Condi Rice & Powell and see
some of the most hateful things about them because they are Republicans…
The “Diversity of the Court” Is an issue only when it consists of too many
Conservatives.
I get upset when Chief Justice John Roberts has people investigating his
children’s adoption records because “They Look too White” and the countless
editorials about how Roberts grew up in a mostly White neighborhood… Like
that is supposed to disqualify him to serve. Now I see the press hounding
Alito’s poor 90 Year old mother looking to find out if he supports Roe V
Wade. I cannot stand the attacks towards the right for the supreme court
picks when Congress’s only real job is to make sure the Court pick is fit to
serve, not if he/she is going to overturn Roe. I saw Ginsberg get 98% of the
votes in Congress because she was qualified and yet she is so far left it is
unreal. But that is OK, if they are far right it must mean they are out of
touch or racist.
I get aggravated as the left keeps talking about how there isn’t enough of
this & that, when the court is supposed to be populated with the best and
not necessarily the exact percentage of races in America. Why not name each
seat as the Hispanic Chair? And the Female-Black Chair? Do not forget the
Jew Chair. It is only fair right?
I watch as The Nutcase Pat Robertson (Which none of us like) says that
dumbass statement about the Venezuelan President and the press repeats it a
thousand times, yet Rangel compares Bush to the “Modern Day Bull Connor” and
that is no problem. It is one thing to completely disagree and dislike Bush,
but to put the “Destruction of Bush” above the good of the country? I am the
first to say that there is things I disagree with the President, but he is
still the President and deserve a small bit of respect at the very least.
The reporting of New Orleans was completely false in almost every way… And
the bullshit from Farrakhan about Bush blowing up the levees on purpose
isn’t reacted with outrage by the press, instead they give it weight…
The Lieutenant Governor of Maryland is a Black Republican and the people
calling him “Uncle Tom” are all lefty White people…
Campaign 2004, Black radio stations, “Bush tried to stop all blacks from
attending college.” Seriously Folks?
It was also perfectly acceptable for Louis Farrakhan to stand upon the
National Mall and call Caucasians “white devils,” and the Jewish faith “a
gutter religion.” Remember, we have to “Understand him” right Lefties?
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People aired an ad
that exploits black fears of white crime. Actually, that’s too kind. Over
black and white video of a pickup truck dragging a chain, the daughter of
Texas dragging death victim James Byrd declares, “So when Gov. George W.
Bush refused to sign hate crimes legislation, it was like my father was
killed all over again.”
Then Gov. Bush is being tied directly to a vicious racist lynching. And from
Brokaw, Jennings, Rather, Shaw & Co. — not a peep.
OK, to the point… I am not posting Right-Wing stuff here, just defending
my side… Lying In the middle is great for some, but being in the middle
never led to anything great… It is not a brave decision, but it is a human
one… Perhaps one day I shall understand Tank’s (Friend of mine) wisdom more than I do
now… But for now, I am a young ideolog…
Before you post a reply, I already know there is corruption on the right…
No need to point it out. You can bring up a lot of Conservatives, but I am
only talking about myself here… I am tired of being called racist for
believing in the Founder’s Vision of America… For believing the
Constitution is not made from rubber to be bended with the times… Knowing
that people who advocate personal responsibility are not racists or
unfeeling. They just believe what makes America great is the Entrepreneurial
aspect of us as Americans and coupled with Capitalism, the sky is the limit.
So, please do not reply with counterpoint, I insulted no one in this brief
editorial. And I want to thank Frater Tank for his great replies… We need
the middle, left & right… Just a small bit of the left though… (hah!)
ENJOY HAMMERFEET
Woody gets it wrong in the comments. The right, or conservatives, or the GOP, however you’d like it phrased, doesn’t say it’s racist to not support someone who happens to not be white but is conservative. We think it’s racist to minimize them because they aren’t white and are conservative.
Clarence Thomas’ asterisk in the Journal-Sentinel, Miguel Estrada being “too hispanic” in Dick Durbins memos. Janice Rogers Brown being “a black female” in those same Durbin memos, and of course the crap Michael Steele in Maryland takes from the media, and a large number of Md Democrats.
If you wish to disagree with their politics, or views, that’s fine, but doing on the basis of their race is wrong.
Posted by: crazy politico at November 6, 2005 02:22 PMI should have explained which comments I was responding too. You can dig into someone’s credit report without being a bigot. (Dirty politics wasn’t invented yesterday.) The NAACP can be against Clarence Thomas; they don’t have to support all Black nominees. You can call that the other side of the story.
I certainly oppose anyone calling someone an Uncle Tom or throwing Oreos. But I can’t control, or even influence, every moron out there.
Since you guys cite random idiots, I think it is fair for me to quote a prominent conservative:
But I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could — if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.
If you can find a prominent, modern-day Democrat saying anything this racist, I’ll be impressed.
By the way, the quote was from William Bennett.
Posted by: Woody Mena at November 6, 2005 02:55 PMWoody Mena
finish the quote!!!! You did just what has been said, speaking out of context. Your allegiance shows bright and clear.
Modern Day Democrat… Racist… hmmm…
Howard Dean? “The only way the GOP could get this many blacks into a room is if teh hotel staff was in here…”
As far as Bennett goes, continue to listen to the sentence after that one, you will here him denounce the idea as ridiculous and hateful… but, as usual the Libs pick and choose what they would like to hear…
Please try to explain to me how Trent Lott’s statement was actually racist, and PROVE to me he was actually talking about segregation… if you cannot prove it, why assume it? Why not give Lott the benefit of the doubt? Of course the left will not, Lott is a conservative so he has to be racist right? There’s The left’s understanding of others again…
Posted by: HammerFeet at November 6, 2005 04:13 PMTo say that black Republicans do not represent the majority of what their race believes is not racism, but merely a statement of fact. Most African-Americans in this country do not agree with Clarence Thomas.
Is it just me, or are Republicans getting politically correct on us? Okay, potentially, Clarence Thomas could end up representing the majority of blacks, but only if there’s some major demographic shift.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2005 04:47 PMtomh- All the Bennett you want!
Here is what he said:
BENNETT: Well, I don’t think it is either, I don’t think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don’t know. But I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could — if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.
According to the article he was dismissing a notion made in Freakonomics, a book that never included race as part of that point that legalized abortion may be partly responsible for reduced crime rates. Bennett, therefore, added the bit about racism himself. Moreover he cited it as a fact. He didn’t exactly trumpet it, but what he said was quite unequivocal.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2005 05:00 PMThese columns are becoming all too predictable. There are plenty (not just Democrats or Republicans) that all share similar beliefs stated above.
We can always come to the Red column to see some Democrat bashing, and vice-versa, day-in and day-out, demonizing each others’ party, being cleverly seduced into the deceiving and distracting partisan warfare, tit-for-tat, while ignoring the big problems that a majority of Americans actually agree upon (i.e. the most obvious, non-contentious, no-brainer problems). That’s how the PCs (“Political Classâ€) continue to avoid tackling tough isses that grow worse and worse each day, and voters, so entrenched in the frenzied circular pattern of thought and action, actually empower the PCs to keep doing it. What if these three columns focused on some heated debate about solutions for the many serious problems facing the nation? Because, the PCs are hoping we, the voters, never remove our partisan blinders long enough to see how the PCs are manipulating us all (both sides, Democrats and Republicans).
Hmmm. Well, maybe that’s hopeless. Perhaps, too many are too fond of wallowing in the divisive, wasteful, partisan warfare and petty bickering.
I’m just saying, the writers of watchblog may be missing an opportunity to discuss and host heated debate on potential solutions, rather than continuously sniping at each other over petty and less substantive issues, while our many serious issues continue to grow, alarmingly, in number and serverity, threatening the future and security of the nation. These are not the ravings of a lunatic. More and more economists have growing concerns about the eventual consequences of many decades of fiscal irresponsibility, spending, debt, growing government, globalization, an aging population, looming shortfalls in huge entitelment systems, and plundered pensions $1.6 trillion in the hole, etc.
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†I see PC people ! “
Oh the Dems do talk a good game, but when put up comes to shut up the Republicans are the real deal.__________________________________
Ya think ?
I don’t think so.
Both (D’s and R’s) are both blinded, and all too fond of wallowing in partisan warfare that is the ulitimate time and energy waster, and distracts you from the fact that you are being manipulated by the “Political Class” that uses that clever tactic to divide, and keep you perpetually frenzied by their circular and wasteful thought patterns. It’s brain washing, and you’ve been brainwashed.
But don’t feel too bad. I was too for 47 years, until both parties finally proved they were merely taking turns gettin’ theirs, votin’ on pork-barrel, graft, waste, and corruption, and (as a whole, one entity) don’t give a damn about the people at all, as evidenced by their continuous irresponsibility and unaccountability.
And, when the $#!+ finally hits the fan, the PCs won’t be the ones that suffer most. They know that. Many are wealthy (by virtue of only one or two terms in office). The middle-to-lower-income class will suffer the most. But, perhaps they should, since they sheepishly continue to empower their tormentors to continue to use and abuse them.
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” I see PC people ! “
I can make another example. Let us just say the same Milwaukee Journal Sentinel said Rugh Bader-Ginsberg deserved some special designation as her views do not reflect main-stream women.
After all she has called for the legalization of prostitution and for the age of consent to be lowered to 14. I can not believe even a minority of women would agree with her.
So should we discount her as a woman on the court because these views do not agree on the whole with women in America?
Of course not. And if the JS did this, they would be attacked en masse everywhere in the mainstream media.
Posted by: RealDebate at November 6, 2005 05:37 PMdan-
What you fail to grasp is that while people are arguing these points, they are also arguing some of the most important issues in their lives. Look back at most of my posts, and the question should resonate: Why this war, in this way, on this evidence? What are the standards by which we justify the violence we inflict on another country?
Elsewhere, I ask, how do we pay for our government? Do we take on the long term problems of debt, or the short term problems of raised taxes?
These are legitimate questions. The problem is in people not thinking about what they’re arguing. The problem comes in people simply trying to score debate points. The problem comes in the debate becoming about itself and not the issues. The problem is in people becoming so in love with the sound of their own soundbites that they forget to put together decent policy.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2005 05:55 PMRealDebate-
It all depends on what one means by arguably. When question about this by Senator Orrin Hatch, she pointed out that she was making an academic point. He took her at her word, saying “You were making an academic point. I understand. I’m not trying to indicate that you were justifying prostitution.”
Additionally, that age of consent issue is a non-starter.
The claim that Ginsburg put forth the “controversial view we should lower the age of consent to 12” is also false. In a section of the 1974 report objecting to the “traditional sex discriminatory fashion” in which the United States Code defined rape, Ginsburg cited a 1973 Senate bill as an example of legislation that better “conform[ed] to the equality principle.” One of the three circumstances that the bill established as constituting rape read as follows: “the other person is, in fact, less than twelve years old.” But Ginsburg was noting with approval only the measure’s gender-neutral language; she never directly addressed the clause regarding “age of consent.” In a September 16 column taking issue with this particular criticism of Ginsburg, Slate.com’s Timothy Noah wrote: “What, then, is Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s true crime? In discussing how to rewrite the federal law addressing statutory rape, Ginsburg failed to state an opinion about what the age of consent should be.”
In short, she didn’t even discuss the issue. Again, though, this just isn’t a sexy enough issue for Republicans looking to justify their own radicalism.
This is another example of why Democrats prefer to get our news from the newspapers, and not the mouths of pundits.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2005 06:06 PMThis is a favorite tactic of Republicans. They find instances of bad things that people who may be Democrats do. Then they generalize and say all Democrats do this.
Here’s the phony syllogism:
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel said nasty words about Alito and the Supreme Court.
These words are racist.
Therefore Democrats are racist.
This is irrational. I can pick a Republican, find fault with him and then generalize to all Republicans. It makes no sense.
If Republicans are so virtuous and Democrats are so vile with reference to race, how come blacks call Clinton the black president and give Bush an approval rating of 2%?
Posted by: Paul Siegel at November 6, 2005 06:32 PMStephen,
I’m amused by the way you always start off with: What you fail to grasp…
Stephen, what you (and many others seduced into the petty partisan warfare) fail to grasp is that you are brainwashed by the PCs (“Political Class”) that perpetuate the circular and controlling thought patterns in the voters, through division, two main parties (by design) that prevent the majority of Americans from uniting to do what is in the voters’ and the nation’s best interest.
But, those other topics you speak of (war, taxes, responsibility of government) are important issues, and some heated debate on those things would be far more productive than the petty partisan warfare, calling democrats racist, and this article where the author writes (which speaks for itself):
Oh the Dems do talk a good game, but when put up comes to shut up the Republicans are the real deal.
That’s all. It’s a free country, and I’m not tellin’ anyone what to do…only suggesting watchblog writers are missing the opportunity to help the nation, rather than fuel petty partisan warfare that distracts voters from the real sustantive issues facing the nation.
But, most people will continue to wallow in the petty partisan warfare (at least, until someday, they have some more serious issues to worry about as a result of wasting too much time and energy on the petty partisan politics) that clever and divisive PCs (“Political Class”) perpetuate, and cleverly use to brainwash voters and distract voters from recognizing the real problem, which stands in the way of realizing the one simple solution.
PROBLEM: Irresponsible and Unaccountable incumbents that are so entrenced in partisan warfare, raising campaign money, and beholding to big-money puppeteers, and voters that are resigned to futility to change it, or brainwashed and cleverly seduced into participation into the distracting and petty partisan warfare.
SOLUTION: Voters simply do the most one simple, easy, quick, safe, inexpensive, non-partisan, peaceful, easy to understand, easy to communicate and share, and most responsible action to peacefully force a balance of power (not simply shift) between government and the people. Vote Out Incumbents, every election, until government increase transparency, and begins to responsibly work to solve the natiuon’s top 10 most obvious, no-brainer, uncountentious problems, that a majority of Americans agree need immediate attention.
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” I see PC people ! “
Good catch Paul Siegel.
That sums it up quite well.
Come now Paul, I showed not one example, I showed at least 6 samples. The point is, to the left racism has become acceptable if it is to attack conservative minorities.
Why are they so outraged by this? Simple, they have had a relative monopoly of thought within that community, the last thing they want is strong role models of a differing ideology people within those communities can look to.
Posted by: RealDebate at November 6, 2005 08:14 PMRepublicans will always be considered racists until they recognize that slavery exists still today in this country. If Colin Powell, Rice, Thomas, etc… would admit that slavery exists and would try to fix this problem they would never be called an Uncle Tom. Hell,they don’t even support raising the minimum wage when it is minorities that are being paid this.
Posted by: republicansareracist at November 6, 2005 08:52 PMDan-
A brainwashed PC, huh? At least you come right out and say we’re brainwashed, instead of hiding behind liberal media bias as the cause.
No, I think the problem is only having a few sources, and most of them saying the same thing. I don’t like it when arguments get stale.
I agree, though that the debate shouldn’t be about accusing one side or another of being tools of Satan, or charming things like that.
But then, you do that to some extent, by assuming our diminished capacity. People are more intelligent and independent than even they realize. Few people are absolute slaves. I would just as soon use facts and subtle arguments to wake them to other possibilities, and get them motivated to get their politicians motivated in the right direction.
It’s one thing to assume one’s right. I think I’m right, for Pete’s sake! But getting other people to agree? That’s the difficulty, and that’s what you can’t count on coming to pass just through brute force. People’s core beliefs are part of their identity. They won’t change them lightly, or just because you’ve posted to them once or twice. You must present them with facts and new interpretations that take parts of the world out of the shadow for them.
Any other approach, and you’re beating an invisible brickwall of skepticism.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2005 09:19 PMStephen,
I believe you’re merely guilty of what you acuse others of…mesmerizing yourself with blah, blah, blah, blah. You don’t get it, but you’re only 26 or so? You’ll learn, oh wise one….of which you don’t grasp…I’m so sick of partisan warfare, because it is so effective at distracting the people from the substantive issues. Beware, that you don’t fuel more partisan divisiveness, and perpetuate the petty partisan warfare. Try to overcome your partisan brainwashing.
The Democrats claim the Republicans are racist and the Rebublicans claim the Democrats are racist.
Who’s right? The answer is BOTH.
The Democrats attack sucessful Conservite Blacks for being traitors to their race because they don’t fall the lies of the liberial programs that are designed to keep them down and in their place.
And the Republicans attacks Blacks that have fallen for these lies as being lazy good for nothings.
AND BOTH PARTIES PURPETUATE THESE LIBERIAL PROGRAMS.
I know, all yaall are going to start with “I don’t do that”.
Well maybe you don’t personally, but listen to your friends of the same political persuasion. If you don’t hear it, you don’t want too. And that right there makes you racist.
I talk to a lot of people in the course of a week. They’re Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Third parties, and guess what?
I HEAR RACIST REMARKS FORM ALL OF THEM.
As much as I hate racism I’m even guilty of making racist remarks at times. I’m not completely 100% nonracist and neither is anyone else.
Until we can quit pointing fingers at each other and start working togeather, Liberials, Conservitives, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, and all other races in this great country, to eliminate racisim, we’ll NEVER become a counrty that’s completely united.
republicansareracist,
You seem racist.
Sorry, but you do.
Why is that?
Racism is wrong.
Most know it.
But, why do you want to attribute it to Republicans only?
You’re obviously partisan.
Racism infects all of society.
Not just Republicans.
You handle is bullshit.
Racism knows no party.
Using racism to demonize one party or the other only demonstrates the extent of your brainwashing.
Think about it.
Dan,
I completely understand where your coming from. I didn’t always feel this way, but when Katrina came, it became more than apparent who was left behind and why. I’m not saying that the GOP decided to desert them because they’re black. I’m saying they were still there because they are black. Republican policies are RACIST!!! It is as simple as that. If you don’t see that, unfortunately, it’s us, the minorities problem. Wake up!
Posted by: republicansareracist at November 6, 2005 10:04 PMRepublicans aen’t racist. They’re elitists with rigid class distinctions.
It’s OK to be black, but you have to have money.
Of course, since they know blacks don’t have money unless they look white, the dark ones are only good as servants, hookers, welfare mama’s, or crack heads.
There is little racism currently being produced in the U.S. But there is a lot of racism baked into the system.
As a white American who grew up in Wisconsin, I never thought about race much at all when growing up. I didn’t see many black people and never had much occasion to deal with any racial situations. That was the result of historic racism and settlement patterns, but required no further racism.
I don’t think any black Americans can have anything like my experience and probably can’t understand it. As a minority, black people are confronted by the question of race no matter where they live. I probably can’t understand that.
The thing that everyone has to remember is that history is not destiny, but we carry attitudes from history. All of us would be better off jettisoning the habits that keep us from achieving what we want. There is no requirement that we “act our race” or support other people of our race. In fact, that is racism.
Sometimes we over compensate. I truly detest rap music. When I told that to my son, who likes the stuff, he responded “Don”t be hating”. When I asked him what he meant, he told me that it was racist to be against rap music. Of course, that is absurd, but his opinion was derived from the media he consumed, (including that turn of phrase he used) and some people do argue that to be against rap music, to support republicans, or to oppose affirmative action is racism. Of course, this is also absurd, but the weak minded believe it.
I guess the bottom line is that we come from a lot of different backgrounds, but we all live in the future, not the past. We can choose our future unless we let our past limit our expectations. It is a choice.
Slavery is alive in America today? Please detail, I must have missed that one.
Posted by: scolex at November 7, 2005 12:34 AMI completely understand where your coming from. I didn’t always feel this way, but when Katrina came, it became more than apparent who was left behind and why
Then you show your ignorance.
The people who were ‘left behind’ were left behind by the policies of the governor and mayor. Both democrats. They even put out PSA DVDs for everyone detailing their emergency response. Their plan?
“You’re on your own.”
You might want to focus your anger at the people responsible. The federal government, in the form of FEMA, screwed up getting help to the people there. The city and state screwed up by leaving them to remain in the city to begin with.
You should also, I don’t know, maybe read a book about the history of racism in the United States and which party ended slavery and which ones ended reconstruction and enacted the Jim Crow laws.
As for your statement that ‘slavery still exists’, you again use emotive rhetoric that has no meaning to try and force political action when all you do is ignore the real issue and causes in play. You ensure that nothing will ever fix the issues because you focus on a boogie man that doesn’t exist to the extent you assert your political agenda.
You’re the problem, not the solution.
Posted by: Rhinehold at November 7, 2005 03:35 AMThe truth is … The Milwaukee newspaper was right on to discount Thomas.
It is a big country, and there are opportunistic folks of all races. An educated opportunistic black person soon figures out they can rise to the top very quickly if they are conservative. Thomas is a highly successful black man because he is conservative. If he was a democrat, there would be thousands of smarter people in line ahead of him.
It’s quite simple, really.
Posted by: Ms Schwamp at November 7, 2005 08:11 AMThe problem isn’t D’s and R’s.
They’re mostly alike.
The real problem is the Political Class that control and manipulate The People, and The People that allow it or fail to recognize it.
Unfortunately, it’s simply a fact of life; a part of the human condition. There are always some that want to control and use others. Laziness fuels corruption and plunder of others. Some of them do it consciously, and some lie to themselves about it all along the way. But, they seek to control the masses. In the process, they feel superior, and reward themselves by plundering The People. These that want to control others, and cleverly use these tactics to fuel partisan warfare do so to divide and distract The People. These that want to control others are the Political Class. Some of the PCs aren’t even aware of this, or refuse to admit it. No one wants to believe they are a parasite. But, they are half the problem. The other half of the problem is The People that allow it.
Thus, one simple solution is for The People to do the most simple, easy, quick, safe, inexpensive, non-partisan, peaceful, easy to understand, easy to communicate and share, and most responsible action to peacefully force a balance of power (not simply shift) between government and the people. Vote out the incumbents, repeatedly, until they implement transparency, and become responsible, and accountable.
It sounds simple, but we have no delusions about the difficulty of overcoming the brainwashing of The People. Education is the key.
The other solution, as history has shown us, is to wait and let the problem solve itself (the hard way).
Posted by: d.a.n at November 7, 2005 08:15 AMJack,
“I guess the bottom line is that we come from a lot of different backgrounds, but we all live in the future, not the past. We can choose our future unless we let our past limit our expectations. It is a choice.”
I don’t know about you, but I choose to live in the present. I plan for the future, but often those plans change.
Also, by knowing where I came from (the past), I am able to focus on where I’m going (the future).
I realize you were using a metaphor, I just had to bring it up.
Jack-
I’m no fan of rap music myself, with few exceptions. Most of it seems too conventional, too derivitive of all the others.
I think the thing that both parties have to deal with is the historical racism of the parties. The Democrats made a cleaner break, I think. The Republicans, though, to gain the South, employed strategies that appealed to the racism that still lingered there. This is the legacy that expresses itself in many modern Republican attitudes, sometimes in a way people aren’t even fully conscious of. I mean, how many people recall that the term and concept of “reverse discrimination” had its start in white supremacist groups?
In the end, I’d be the last to claim that Republicans are all that racist, but I’d also be the last to claim that some of the attitudes that have their beginning in racism don’t show up.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 7, 2005 10:40 AMMs Schwamp
Thomas is a highly successful black man because he is conservative. If he was a democrat, there would be thousands of smarter people in line ahead of him.
So the Republicans don’t have any smart people and the Democrats have ALL the smart people.
Hogwash, There are smart people in BOTH parties just as there are dummies in BOTH parties.
Clarence Thomas got where he is through HARD WORK, and NOT by falling for the government programs that were telling him that he couldn’t make it with out the governments help.
That’s why Liberials don’t like him.
Stephen
I never use the term reverse discrimination. Any use of race as a determining factor is just plain old discrimination and racism.
Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2005 10:51 AMI didn’t exactly pore over some of the back-and-forth here, so if others previously raised these points, I apologize.
It is not racism to recognize that race is still a relevant factor in all situations arising among American citizens. Nor is it racism to recognize that there are trends among racial groups, as long as those trends are recognized not to be the result of a necessary connection between race and that trend. For example, one would be hopelessly naive if one did not recognize that, in this country, there is a strong correlation between minority racial status and poverty. It is racism, however, to believe that this connection is one that is natural and must always persevere. This is, of course, a simplification, and there are many species of racism, but my simple point is this: race consciousness is not racism.
The problem nowadays is that, in the absence of overt, institutional racism, there is a misconception that racism was some sort of ancient beast that was vanquished, and now the playing field is completely level. It isn’t. The problem of unconscious racism is a pernicious and universal reality, and I don’t think that among those that study sociology and race there is any serious debate about this.
To deny its existence and to deny the race issue a central position in the popular discourse is to do a disservice to all whom are still affected by it in their daily lives, and worse, contributes to the continuing problem of racism.
The short of this is, yes, liberals are racist. Republicans are racist. I’m racist and you’re racist. Everyone is racist. We were socialized into a society that is racist, and there is no way to avoid it. The best we can do is to recognize that fact, and attempt to be cognizant of the ways it shapes our thinking, and not to think things that only perpetuate the problem, e.g. “minority people keep themselves down by acting like victims”. Consciousness of the race issue and its consequences helps minimize the damage and increases the likelihood that one day there will not be a race issue. But never forget that that day is not here yet.
Posted by: ken h at November 7, 2005 10:57 AMD.a.n.,
I agree it’s a good idea to vote out incumbent politicians if they aren’t doing a good job of representing the interests and needs of their constituents. But could we please get real here for just a moment? There are A LOT of differences between the POLICIES of Left and the Right. And this all really comes down to what what Dave wrote regarding Republican’s:
“They’re elitists with rigid class distinctions.
It’s OK to be black, but you have to have money.”
That happens to be the glaringly obvious truth. And when people become successful and decide to start going along with Republican policies, it really amounts to turning their back on policies that are designed to protect and promote, not just people of their race (whatever that happens to be), but all the people who belong to the working class and the poor.
The reason why the NAACP will never, ever approve of men like Clarence Thomas, or women like Condi Rice, is because one of the A’s in their title stands for the word Advancement — and the people they’re representing aren’t going to get any measure of advancement by going along with Republican policies.
Let’s face facts, the only goals the Republican’s represent are those of an endlessly greedy and heartlessly callous, Wealthy Elite. It really is that simple.
Here is a link to an article regarding an important issue that the Congresswoman from the 4th Congressional district in Georgia is working on. I’ll bet most of America can’t wait to see how much time and money that is going to cost.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47250
Thanks Adrienne, that’s two validations you’ve given to me lately. I should be far ahead in kudus to you. So, my appologies for belatededly saying that I find your posts well written, respectful, and persuasive.
I am waiting, however, for a response to your: “is because one of the A’s in their title stands for the word Advancement.” I’m sure they’ll be someone spinning it to something like “So you agree that it’s the liberals fault that minorities don’t succeed. Because if you succeed, then you become shunned and called names like ‘traitors to the people’.”
Posted by: Dave at November 7, 2005 11:53 AMAdrienne,
You can generalize a little, and there are some minor differences in what the politicians say (the Political Class), but little in what they do. They both go along and both take turns being irresponsible and unaccountable, and both, as a whole, as one entity, got us where we are now. We’ve got problems that are growing daily, and have the potential to change your life as you now know it. See the many similarities for yourself.
There really only two differences we need to concern ourselves with:
(1) The PCs (Political Class) that want to control and plunder The People,
(2) and The People that allow it, wittingly (resigned to futility of changing it), or unwittingly (don’t care or are seduced into the partisan warfare that divides The People, so a majority can never exist to force government to be responsible and accountable).
I’m being quite real.
I have no delusions about the difficulty of convincing people that they are being manipulated by the PCs of the two main parties.
But, The People will continue to be used and abused by the Political Class as long as The People fail to recognize that the Political Class is cleverly dividing The People, pitting them against each other (despite your claims of significant differences between people) over small differences, while we all ignore the important issues and solutions for the many things we all agree upon.
______________________________
The People have two choices:
(1) Keep doing what we’re doing, continue to empower the Political Class to use and abouse us, and learn the hard way,
(2) Or, vote out the irresponsible and unaccountable government, repeatedly, until they get the message, and behave responsibly. It’s merely what voters were supposed to be doing all along. We’re running out of time. There will be consequences for letting so many problems continue to go unresolved. Nothing can be accomplished, because the Political Class is so entrenched in fueling partisan warfare, dividing The People, gettin’ their’s, raising campaign funds, and so beholding to their big-money backers (their puppeteers).
______________________________
The lack of accountability is not just because we failed to accurately judge the character of the candidate. It’s not because we are consistently bad judges of character. It is also the system that is flawed, dysfunctional, and breeds irresponsibility and unaccountability and corruption. Thus, it doesn’t seem to matter WHO we vote for, because of what happens to politicians after being elected into a dysfunctional system. Since the system is dysfunctional, good and well-meaning politicians are powerless to create more responsible and accountable government; especially if we continue to consider each politician individually and never as one team or one entity.
The Political Class ignores The People and the serious issues facing the nation, because the Political Class won’t be the ones to suffer when the consequences of so much fiscal & moral irresponsibility finally catches up with us.
For me, it’s finally a relief to finally see how I was brainwashed for so long (i.e. used to be Republican). Things are making more sense. But, it took me 47 years to realize it, which is why I understand how difficult it would be to get The People to recognize the same thing, and all unite to sovlve the nation’s worst problem: a Political Class that is fiscally and morally bankrupt.
Take a close look at how things work.
Why is it that serious issues remain unresolved, while a majority of Americans agree upon the problem and solution.
If only The People could now recognize the real problem, and do the one simple thing they were supposed to be doing all along. Simply do the most simple, easy, quick, safe, inexpensive, non-partisan, peaceful, easy to understand, easy to communicate and share, and most responsible action to peacefully force a balance of power (not simply shift) between government and the people. Government won’t reform itself. The People must force it to happen. It will happen some day. Hopefully, it will be the smart, peaceful way.
_______________________________________
” I see PC people ! “
Also, consider the cost and difficulty of ousting an incumbent.
98% of the SENATE didn’t retain their seats because they are responsible and accountable.
http://home.comcast.net/~d.a.n/UnfairIncumbentAdvantage.gif
Posted by: d.a.n at November 7, 2005 12:57 PMThanks Dave, that is very kind of you to say! :^)
d.a.n.,
I don’t know where you live, but the majority of my representatives are doing a pretty good job for me here in Northern California. I am in a district that is represented in the House by Barbara Lee, and I’m surrounded by districts that have people like Doris Matsui, Lynne Woolsey, George Miller, Nancy Pelosi, and Ellen Tauscher representing them. In the Senate, Barbara Boxer is doing a terrific job. I am much less thrilled with Dianne Feinstein — which is why I am always bombarding her office with e-mails, letters and phone calls.
See, I’m on who believes that if more people ruthlessly harrassed and leaned on their representatives when their votes go against our best interests, or when they agree with dumb decisions that are at complete odds with the needs of the people they’re supposed to be working for, they’ll eventually get the message (no matter what party they hail from).
When and if they don’t, like I said before, I’m all for voting them out of office. I’m also a very big supporter of watchdog organizations like CREW: Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, because they work hard to weed out corruption wherever they find it, Right or Left.
Eric G,
I don’t think you’ll find many liberals who will advocate your idea of mandatory abortions. You see, when the left talks about pro-choice, that’s exactly what they mean—it should be a choice.
Posted by: Simian at November 7, 2005 03:20 PMAdrienne,
That’s fine. You are doing what you think is right. At least you’re actively trying to do something. But, does that mean you think government, as a whole is doing OK ? Or are you only satisfied with your Congressional politicians ?
But I’m not even remotely happy with their performance, because very few haven’t participated in pork-barrel, graft, and waste. Few will tackle tough issues for fear of risking re-election. Few want election and campaign finance reform. Few really want tax reform. Most like the way they’ve perverted the tax system. Few want to stop plundering Social Security. Few care about the GPBGC and pensions being $1.6 trillion in the hole (they’ll just dump it on the tax payers). Few really want term limits. Few really want to cut spending. Few are truly responsible and accountable. And why should they be. It takes millions to unseat an incumbent. They don’t want the voters to have more choices. Most spend a great deal of time raising big money for their war chests. Most fuel the partisan warfare and hatred. Most are beholding to their big money contributors. They are ignoring serious issues facing the nation.
I’m not nearly as satisfied with the Federal government, and feel that the only way to get their attention is to vote ‘em all out. That’s what voters are supposed to do, when both parties merely take turns being irresponsible and unaccountable.
I agree with you about leaning on them hard. One way to do that is vote ‘em all out.
If what we’re doing now was working, why can’t we solve any of these serious problems ? that continue to grow in number and severity ?
The Political Class is so consumed with everything but the welfare of the nation, it’s a wonder those painful consequences haven’t been felt sooner. But, decades of so much irresponsibility will catch up to us. It’s not a matter of if. It’s a matter of when. The only way to avoid the painful route it so take the smart route now, and peacefully force government to be responsible and accountable.
What we’re doing now has no element of force required to incent Congress to police their own ranks. The rampant corruption is threatening the nation’s future and security.
I don’t like 99% them, because almost every one of them are smug, fat, and happy, and the sorry state of things is proof enough of the poor job they’re doing. They’re not really doing that much. You should follow some of them around for a few days, and see what they actually accomplish. Many do next to nothing. Many not only provide no net benefit to society, but are a burden, and a danger.
____________________________________________
” I see PC people ! “
It’s getting hard and hard to see we are going to avoid the painful consequences of so much fiscal and moral bankruptcy.
Posted by: d.a.n at November 7, 2005 04:54 PMsteve smith
Things like this is why I didn’t vote for Congresswomen McKinney to start with and I’m not going to vote for her this time around.
She’s always comming up with some kind of crap that just waste time and money.
Yeah, I hate to admitt it but she’s from my Congressional District.
Eric:
You are missing a key point here. Well, you’re actually missing a bunch, but I’ll focus on just one. Solving a financial problem through an immoral means is not a solution. For instance, if we kill off all the really sick people, instead of helping them hang on for a while, our medical situation would be much better off. If we kill off all old people (I’ll let someone older than me pick the age of termination :), then the Social Security financial picture would improve.
But there would be no morality in that, would there? Now I recognize that a lot of people do not see abortion as immoral, but in the way you advocate it, it most assuredly is. If we see abortion as the ending of a life, and we use that simply to balance the books, what have we then become? And what would be to prevent the situations that I documented above, since they would be quite effective from a financial perspective.
For once, I agree with Adrienne in saying, “Sieg Heil mein Herr.”
Posted by: joebagodonuts at November 7, 2005 04:57 PMfor elliotbay..and the rest of the moronic liberal left no matter how big of a word you use does not make you a smart debator your use the word “demogoguery” is laughable, u might want to consult a dictionary before you sit down and write another blog.I suggest WEBSTER it’s a very good one!!!!
hd, Calling other participants here moronic clearly violates our policy of Critique the Message, not the Messenger. Your comments are no longer welcome here. —WatchBlog Managing Editor
Posted by: hd at November 7, 2005 05:08 PMPaul Seigel:
Please tell me who in the RNC could get away with this statement - without taking a beating from the PC-folk and the media :
“The only way the GOP could get this many blacks into a room is if teh hotel staff was in here…”
If one exists, I want to know.
Then tell me again how the Dems dont take the “black” vote for granted.
Posted by: still Unreal... at November 7, 2005 06:20 PMEric G
Do us Conservitives a favor, QUIT CALLING YOURSELF A CONSERVITIVE.
If your pro-choise that’s your opinion and your entitled to it. There are genuine Conservitives that are pro-choise.
However NO genuine Conservitive is going to on anyway advocate manditory abortion.
The only people? that I’ve ever heard advocate something that dumb are hate groups. AND THERE JUST AINT NO HATE GROUPS THAT ARE CONSERVITIVE!!!!
for elliotbay..and the rest of the moronic liberal left no matter how big of a word you use does not make you a smart debator your use the word “demogoguery†is laughable, u might want to consult a dictionary before you sit down and write another blog.I suggest WEBSTER it’s a very good one!!!!
Posted by: hd at November 7, 2005 05:08 PM
While I don’t agree with most of what the left has to say, I find MOST of them to be fairly intelegent.
That’s more than I can say that for you though.
“does not make you a smart debator your use the word “demogoguery†is laughable, u might want to consult a dictionary before you sit down and write another blog.I suggest WEBSTER it’s a very good one!!!!”
Might want to pick a Webster’s up yourself, since you spelled both “debater” and “demagoguery” wrong.
Posted by: Adrienne at November 7, 2005 07:00 PMRealDebate, when put comes to shup up, both the major parties take the cake, and their mouths are so full it they have no choice but to shut up.
Tom DeLay, Abraham, now this story, Washington’s governor, and Schwarzennegar who can’t seem to find even a substantial minority to support his incompetence, it runs the spectrum on both sides of the aisle. Let’s not forget Gov. Blanco’s incompetence.
What is needed here is a good housecleaning of
incumbents who have become so entrenched in partisan warfare, so consumed by campaign funding generation, and so beholding to special interests and lobbyists, that incumbents are ignoring the large majority of American voters in agreement on the need to address major issues that threaten the future and security of the nation.
(The quote is from a letter drafted and to be sent to 3rd party and non-partisan advocacy organizations by Vote Out Incumbents for Democracy.)
Posted by: David R. Remer at November 7, 2005 08:06 PMI have to make a comment to the liberal comment at the beginning. Of course a liberal has a right to be critical - that is free speech. The problem with liberals these days is their ideology is wrapped up in falsehood and lies in the espousing of their ideology. If a liberal can come up with an ideology that constructive rather than saying conservative ideology is evil because of disagreement that would be interesting.
Posted by: John at November 7, 2005 08:50 PMIs this something new to Real Born Americans like me my father mother brothers and other family members NO Race is the united states plane and simple it will allways be about Race it will never die out what I don’t like is all these third world foreigners coming by the millions and millions to this country and taking over there is no reason for the united states to accept them go back to your country and live I have nothing and these people get everything they have homes cars money jobs children and savings accounts they are able to take care of the family I have nothing no money no car no home no savings account NOTHING
the reason that we real Racist united states born citizens are fed up and hate this shit hole united states is that they care more about Israel and third world garbage that comes by the millions and is destroying this country than taking care of the people that deserve it Real True Born Americans.I hate the United States.
Eric G
You stated mandatory abortion for babies on the way from crack mothers, etc.
My wife and I adopted two boys who are half brothers. Their mother was a drug and alcohol addict. If they were murdered as you propose, then I would have been deprived of two very bright young men who are going places in this world. One has an IQ of 156 and the other 165. The 165 is the top of the chart. Had the standard been higher he would have climbed even higher. So killing babies who have the misfortune of having men and women who use drugs and alcohol or any other foreign substance that could endanger the baby, is absolutely wrong!!!!
The mother and father of said babies should be dealt with harshly, but not the innocent baby. By the way, the older boy is half black, and I love it.
I just heard France does not have anti-discrimination laws, which is part of the problem they now have in Paris ?
I was surprised that France didn’t have and enforce such laws. Many stated they wanted to move to the United States, because they felt it was more fair here. That’s interesting, because I personally think we (the U.S.) still have room for improvement, but it must be much worse in France?
Eric G:
“You people are so closed minded that your lives would crumble if you couldn�t come on here and complain that the other side is �evil� and needs to see things your way.”
This is funny, because joebagodonuts and I are frequently on opposing sides here and have many conversations (often where we do nothing but argue and butt heads) but have never once called each other evil. And in this particular case, we happened to reach a rare agreement regarding your post.
“None of you have the ability to see things any way but the way you have locked in your mind�.”
That is probably for the most part true, though I must admit, I’ve actually changed my mind about a few things during the time I’ve been coming to WB, so it does sometimes happen. And it’s very nice to think that maybe something that I write might one day have the same effect on someone else. Judging by your statement, should we assume you’ll be someone who may be open to listening to many different views?
“Guess what, half of you are dead wrong on EVERY issue!”
Says who? Oh, and which “half” would that be?
Also, are you missing the irony between this statement and your previous one? Just curious.
“So I am compared to Hitler”
When someone starts talking about cold, calculated reasons based upon cost for children to be aborted, advocates for forced mandatory abortions, makes assumptions that certain children will automatically grow up to be worthless murderers, and thinks that parental IQ should be brought into the equation (not to mention a mandatory dollar amount on their wages) before they should be allowed to have children, what else can be said? There is an historical precedent here. Der Fuhrer had some similar ideas, though he put it in terms of breeding a “master race”.
Btw, comparing someone to Hitler based upon what they have written is critiquing the message. Announcing “you people are so closed minded” in a general sense is critiquing the messengers.
Posted by: Adrienne at November 8, 2005 10:56 AMAlbert Garibay, everyone who isn’t Native American who lives in the United States comes from an immigrant background.
“the reason that we real Racist united states born citizens are fed up and hate this shit hole united states is that they care more about Israel and third world garbage that comes by the millions and is destroying this country than taking care of the people that deserve it Real True Born Americans.I hate the United States.”
Hey, maybe you should be the one to immigrate if you hate it here so much! Maybe France? I hear it’s real warm there right now.
Posted by: Adrienne at November 8, 2005 11:20 AMAdrienne
Maybe we could have a raffle or lottery and buy him a one way ticket by steamer to, lets say Qatar, or Sudan or he could have a third choice like Iran.
tomh,
Well, I think it’s a fine idea, but Albert probably wouldn’t care for life in any of those places — since they don’t have rights built into their government that would allow him to broadcast his hatreds.
I hate the United States.
Posted by: Albert Garibay at November 7, 2005 10:52 PM
THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND SPREAD YOUR HATE! I’m sure no one here will miss you.
tomh
If those two boys had been adorted as Eric G had segusted they should’ve just think of the joy you’d be missing. I know how much joy an adopted child can bring as I have an adopted daughter. Her mother wasn’t a drug user though. But her father was and went off the deep end one day and killed her mother and himself.
Adrienne
RE: your post to Eric G. @ 10:56 today.
You and me have just come to a rare agreement.
Ron:
“RE: your post to Eric G. @ 10:56 today.
You and me have just come to a rare agreement.”
I’ll tell you what Ron, I’m think I’m having a spendid couple of days here! First jbod and I agree about Eric G’s post yesterday, then today, Traveler and jbod make points on another thread I agree with, and now you and I are agreeing with each other. I’m amazed, and very glad to see that all of the above can happen!
:^)
Ron Brown
Thanks for the uplifting and encouraging word. It is truly appreciated.
Seems that I have said something good to get people thinking and talking about what is wrong with this country I do not and will not care what people think about me and the hate that I feel so what I am a true born American citizen
(100% True Born American Skinhead)and nothing will ever change this fact about me this is my country and not yours.
Albert Garibay,
“(100% True Born American Skinhead)and nothing will ever change this fact about me this is my country and not yours.”
Amazing!
I didn’t think that white supremacists accepted Native Americans into their ranks.
This has to be a first, even for those bozos.
Posted by: Rocky at November 8, 2005 11:51 PMI hear the moderates and liberals saying that there is racism on both sides.
Feel free to post examples of conservatives, flat-out saying that they dont like black ppl or a person is not “White enough” and throwing oreo cookies turned inside at them
The only thing liberals have is interpertations of what the conservatives are saying in between the lines. Your hatred is making you see things that arent there.
ITS TIME ALL AMERICANS EARN THERE OWN WAY!
STOP THE HAND OUTS!
Posted by: McIrish at November 9, 2005 10:41 AMAlbert Garibay
If as you said earlier you “Hate the United States.” Then why are you so proud of being born here?
I am a true born American citizen
(100% True Born American Skinhead)and nothing will ever change this fact about me this is my country and not yours.
THIS IS NOT YOUR COUNTRY ONLY. It is my counrty too. And the country of every person born in it, or have become citizens of this great country.
If your SO PROUD to be a “100% Ture Born American Skinhead” I know of an organzation that’s just right for you. Next time your in town look for a building that has a sign out front that says “I Want You”. Go in and tell them your a ‘True born American citizen’ and want to sign some papers that will let EVERYONE know how ‘ture born’ you are.
They’re be glad to give you those papers and will even send you on a little trip, all expenses paid. Why they’ll even give you a check every mounth so you can go to town a party with other true born American citizens.
Doesn’t that sound exciting?
Albert Garibay,
I am your original ancestor speaking from beyond the grave…
Your hate SHAMES all who have borne the name GARIBAY!
You come from an immigrant past! Your people are of Basque origins. They may also be found in Italy.
We have not carried you upon the tide of our blood to America’s shores for you to hate, or to write as a skinhead racist LOSER!
Our tradition is to show kindness and respect for others!
If you do not cease, we will curse you and cause you nothing but trouble and misery for the rest of your days!!!
Sincerely,
ZIGOR* GARIBAY
*The name means “punishment” in Basque, and that is what I intend to mete out to you Albert, if you ignore my warning!
Posted by: ZIGOR at November 9, 2005 11:36 AMThe new bankruptcy laws will not help the working man and woman. Nor will it help the retired people of our nation. Most of the people affected will lose everything they have worked for their whole lives. It will destroy the small business as well, if they make under $200,000 dollars a year. Not to mention if he has any sort of problems combined with little or no sales. If you have an illness and no insurance, your financial future is bleak to say the least. What’s left but debtors prison or old people and children sleeping in the streets? Homeless and starving? The people of America need your help! The working men and women need you to help us out and to do the job you were supposed to do in the first place. It is after all ‘a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.â€
Over the State Median Income: The Means Test
The new means test is designed to force some debtor with
Income over the state median to file a repayment plan under
Chapter 13 instead of a full discharge under Chapter 7. First, you
Must apply strict expense caps intended for IRS tax collection
Cases. After these caps and other allowances have been applied to
Each expense category, the remaining income is added together to
Establish whether the client is able to make payment under
Chapter 13. BAPCPA ignores the fact debtors may not
Actually, have much of this money left over each month. Further
There is no exemption from the means test for debtors who fall in a
Chapter 13. These folks will apparently fall into a “no man’s landâ€
Where they will be ineligible for Chapter 7 due to the means test,
And unable to complete a Chapter13 because the payments are
not realistic.
