Republicans & Conservatives: Archives

Eric, you are just arguing for perpetuating incompetence and inexperience for the sake of preserving political party Public Relations. What a vain attempt. Not even Bush’s new foreign Propaganda Minister appointed today is going change the flushed public image of Bush his appointees, or his party after Katrina. The GOP has shown itself incompetent in Iraq, incompetent on fiscal responsibility, and incompetent in protecting American lives, TWICE, now.

You are a fool. No one is ecstatic. Live with the fact Nixon would have been impeached and sentenced except for the pardon. You tried to get Bill for having a private time and then you say he lied. Repubs are all about revenge. So sad you had to go so far down for your current president and now you have to live with it. Shut up.

Country devastated: Democrats ecstatic.

That really is pathetic. Talk about missing the point…

I would think that even if I somehow felt I had a legitimate grievance with the President, that in the face of this natural disaster I might consider temporarily putting aside my overwhelmingly vengeful desire to lash out politically,

Because demanding some decisive action at a time when people were trapped without food or water should always wait until a politically convenient time.

Er, wait a second, no it shouldn’t.

It is a mistake to get trapped into defending the systems and processes which clearly failed. - Newt “Ecstatic Democrat” Gingrich

It’s clear Eric that you are more interested in defending the systems and processes than the weak and destitute victims of Katrina.

What you have written is pathetic.

jack,

Telling someone to “shut up” is not the tone we like to have around here. Please rein it in a bit. Otherwise, the managers might ban you from the site for violating our policy of “Critique the Message, not the Messenger.”

David,

Eric, you are just arguing for perpetuating incompetence and inexperience for the sake of preserving political party Public Relations. What a vain attempt.

Do you think the above quotes are entirely rational and true?

ANOTHER COMMISSION TO “INVESTIGATE” SOMETHING ELSE???

COME ON…

Look, aren’t we PAST the Blame Game? Do we REALLY have to appoint ANOTHER commission whose sole purpose is to find somebody to blame for something that happened?

OK…OK.

Here’s the findings of the new commission appointed to blame Bush for everything that happened during and after Katrina.

Bush is an incompetant, ignorant, racist, Nazi, pig, chauvanist, hick, dumb-ass, jerk-off.

Now, send the $20 million to my bank account and forget the commission.

Eric,
What happened in N.O./LA these past week or so is Absolutely unforgiveable. Yes, some citizens have not been political correct in their speech, but given the Total Lack of Response by President Bush compared to his Hand Holding of Brother Jeb last year after Florida got hit clearly shows his difference in how he views Americans.

Ecstatic, I think not. Outraged, even Karl Rove is not going to be capable of sweeping this Ignorant Act under the rug. While I do not think either the Local or State carried their weight in this disaster, the fact that Red Tape won out over even a singles person life is just BS.

Do yourself a favor and find out why Mr. Chertoff enacted “The National Response Plan” under NIMS when by Law our States did not have to comply to those regulations until next year. As a Republican, you should know that it takes time to bring every emergency service up to speed and having two game plans operating at the same time can only lead to mass confusion.

No, I can understand peoples outrage over Presidents Bush’s lack of caring about this Natural Disaster and I believe even most Republicans can see that he is only worried about his Elite Friends. So before you try to spin the facts, you might want to ask yourself what will President Bush do to make your life safer now that The Whole World knows just how bad of a job Our Republican Leadership in Washington has done.

Appears Jim T., your comment is the only one here ascribing such terms to the President.

Do you think the above quotes are entirely rational and true?

I see…now isn’t an appropriate time to try and shake Bush or “Heck of a job” Brownie out of thier deadly inaction…but it is a perfect opportunity to question the musings of Randy Rhodes and Kanye West.

What a waste of time this tread is.

Democrats are ecstatic? What world do you get your news from? What a pathetic attempt to denigrate half the population. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I have read this side of watchblog with interest, I may have to skip it if this is going to be the tenor of the posts here.

Eric,

Desperate?

I realize you think those of us, who question our government are un-American liberals with an agenda, but to say we are celebrating the deaths of thousands of people is a baseless,desperate attempt at a smear campaigne. You should enroll in the Karl Rove School of Spin and Attack Politics, take a few classes and come back with something we can respond to.
You guys are the ones who said they deserved it for staying and the government did a great job, now it’s a tragic mess and we’re celebrating.
This is laughable.

jack, please comply with our policy. Leave the name calling toward other participants here behind or lose comment privileges here. This will be the only warning.

jack,

You are a fool. No one is ecstatic.

I didn’t expect to write this post. I give you guys much more credit than you might suspect from my normal ranting here but I did expect some criticism of Bush over Katrina. I even half-expected the call for ‘investigations’ though they came even before the hurricane was over. What I did not expect was to be affronted with overly harsh and completely uncivil politicization in the middle of the disaster.

There’s just something about taking a tragedy and turning it into a political opportunity to savage your opponent. Normally, savaging your opponent is ok with me. But as I watched the disaster and talked with my wife about what we could do, Bush is being called a racist etc etc.

Live with the fact Nixon would have been impeached and sentenced except for the pardon. You tried to get Bill for having a private time and then you say he lied. Repubs are all about revenge.

I’m past that jack. I would have impeached Nixon for his fiscal policy and for imposing price controls, but that has little do with anything here.

I think the problem here is that while you assume, “Republicans are all about revenge,” I think that somewhere along the line you need to look at your party and wonder if you haven’t become the enemy you believe us to be.

So sad you had to go so far down for your current president and now you have to live with it. Shut up.

That pretty much sums it up.

Eric,

Your post is a perfect example of what Howard Dean was talking about when he spoke of “[the] usual barrage” of “misinformation [and] smear campaigns”.

Nobody is ecstatic over this tragedy. Nobody. Anyone who thinks so is seriously out of touch with reality.

Pitiful, dude. Ridiculous and pitiful.

David,

You’re right. I am the only one here using those names. This is the Rep side.

I had to look over on the Dems side for reference material.

:-)

Eric,

If you really want specific feedback:

I think somewhere deep down inside him he takes a lot of joy about losing people

Not true.

This is one failure we will not allow Rove and the GOP attack machine to spin away with their usual barrage of photo ops, misinformation, smear campaigns and press conferences

Hopefully is true.

The civil rights leader said the flooding that caused thousands to be trapped inside the city was caused by a lack of federal funding for its levee system and hurricane planning.

Partially true, though the truth here will be debated a long time and in the end people won’t agree.

Mr. President, you should have taken charge and you should have taken responsibility.

Quite certainly he should have provided better leadership a lot sooner.

“Why didn’t President Bush immediately return to Washington from his vacation?”

Good question.

When recipients clicked on a link to the petition, the top center of the screen _ above the call to “Fire the FEMA director” _ had asked for a donation to the DSCC.

Both stupid and wrong.

Senate Democrats said yesterday that they will invoke the vast disparities in income and living conditions laid bare by the Hurricane Katrina disaster to sharpen their questioning of Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts Jr. at his confirmation hearings next week.

Absolutely as it should be. Katrina has raised the level of awareness about the disparities and should be a subject when questioning a potential Chief of Justice.

Iona told me, ‘It just makes me so angry that my country, my government would say that I’m not worth saving.’

This is how a lot of those folks really feel. They should be free to speak their minds after what they’ve been through.

And, you know, it’s been five days [waiting for federal help] because most of the people are black…

You know, it is hard to explain Bush’s slow response. Would things have been different if it had been, say, Houston? I don’t think Mr. Bush is a racist but it’s easy to see how others, give the underwhelming response, might well believe this since other explanations are not in evidence.

Jackson questioned why Bush has not named blacks to top positions in the federal response to the disaster

Yeah, that’s kind of dumb.

esimonson, I think the attempt to defend the fed. government’s actions by denigrating the minority party that had little to no say over the policies and appointees responsible for the inexcusable delays at the federal level in responding to Katrina victim’s plight, does seek to defend and protect the incompetence and inexperience that caused those delays. Yes.

There is ample room to criticize local Democratic leaders for their failures as well. But, at the federal level, the responsibility belongs entirely to the Republican leaders of it.

Different Jack.

Not the usual Jack who was rude to Eric.

Jack

Jim T., Ooops! My bad. My apology.

I am sick to death of hearing conservatives and Republicans whine about the way we are treated by the socialists in the Democrat party. Get a grip and start responding with the facts. We can be just as loud and shrill as they are. It shames me sometimes to be a Republican.

Jack, no worries, mate, the ISP’s tell the red jacks from the black Jacks. The capitalization also was distinguishing.

David…

Hahahahahaha!!!

and a “he-he-he” to boot!

I truly think we could all do with a good laugh now and then.

Bob Hope,

That really is pathetic. Talk about missing the point…

But what is the point? What exactly did Bush actually do or not do to warrent this level of criticism in this case? You have issues that have nothing to do with Katrina, nothing to do with what Bush had any control over, and nothing to do with Bush being a racist or wanting people die.

Because demanding some decisive action at a time when people were trapped without food or water should always wait until a politically convenient time.

Again, you illustrate my point magnificently. No reason, no logic, just politically charged accusations. You don’t have any facts with which to make any judgement about who did what when and what they knew or should have known.

It’s clear Eric that you are more interested in defending the systems and processes than the weak and destitute victims of Katrina.

What you have written is pathetic.

It would be pathetic if it were not true. As it is, it perfectly expresses the tone that has been set by those who believe, like yourself, that Bush is incompetent and racist.

How does calling Bush a racist and then using Katrina as a political weapon help anyone? Unless in the minds of some it will help them politically.

“Get a grip and start responding with the facts”

Eric provided factual statements, made by idiots.
The sole purpose of these statements were for political gain and so far, Reed has been the only one to address the message and not the messenger.
For whatever reason, these statements are just fine but yet Mrs. Bush must be hammered for what… oh wait, she’s a Republican, nevermind. It makes sense now.

To say that people in N.O. died because George Bush is a racist is patently stupid. If you get away from the hysteria on the blogs, you will realize that government from top to bottom screwed up. I believe it was no one politician’s fault. The federal, state and local administrations were overwhelmed by the magnitude of the disaster. Government is run by people and people screw up. It’s sad however that it happened on such a massive scale. The same with 9/11. But to the person who is also blaming President Bush for that, I just have to say yeah, it happened on his watch, 7 months into his watch. But I suppose some people, if the sun exploded tomorrow, would find a way to lay the blame on President Bush. This country is in a serious tailspin. By the way, if Al Gore were President Gore, would he alone be blamed for 9/11 and Katrina? Probably by conservatives and defended to the death by liberals, which would also be wrong.

ElliotBay,

Your post is a perfect example of what Howard Dean was talking about when he spoke of “[the] usual barrage” of “misinformation [and] smear campaigns”.

Nobody is ecstatic over this tragedy. Nobody. Anyone who thinks so is seriously out of touch with reality.

Pitiful, dude. Ridiculous and pitiful.

No, I guess you and Howard are right, the right should never point out the lies, misinformation, and mischaracterization of the left. I mean to point out that someone is calling you a racist and that you want people to die is the basic recipe of a Karl Rove smear campaign.

Can you take a look at the comments above? Are they out of line at all? Can you see where it might in fact detract from the real argument (serious argument) you might be trying to make?

Henry Schlatman,

‘Total lack of response’? ‘Ignorant Act’? What are you talking about really?

Yes, some citizens have not been political correct in their speech, but given the Total Lack of Response by President Bush compared to his Hand Holding of Brother Jeb last year after Florida got hit clearly shows his difference in how he views Americans.

See, here’s the difference. Your response is as if Bush did order the national gaurd to shoot blacks in New Orleans. It is a Total Over Reaction. Your insinuation that Bush doesn’t care does not follow.

You might consider adding some nuance to your political worldview. Do you think that it’s possible that the frequency with which Florida gets hit with hurricanes might have something to do with FEMA handling Hurricanes in Florida a little better than the total chaos in New Orleans?

While I do not think either the Local or State carried their weight in this disaster, the fact that Red Tape won out over even a singles person life is just BS.

Sure, but the ‘Total lack of Response’ and ‘Ignorant Act’ by both the State and Local officials is in fact no big deal to you is it? What if it turns out that their ‘Ignorant Acts’ actually contributed more to the death of their citizens? Will you reproach them as harshly?

No, I can understand peoples outrage over Presidents Bush’s lack of caring about this Natural Disaster and I believe even most Republicans can see that he is only worried about his Elite Friends.

I don’t see where you get that from.

Ecstatic seems to have replaced treason, slander, and unamerican in the republican lexicon.

Yes it is easy to dismiss these things as political shenanigans. However, you do a disservice to your opposition. If it was only the politicians speaking thusly I MIGHT agree that saying the emperor has no clothes at this point isn’t needed. However, talk to people many, many, many people have said those exact same words. People with no political aspirations whatsoever. Perhaps there’s something more than politics behind this.

Accusations of schadenfreude from a party that ties 9/11 to their unpopular war (although they themselves admit no tie) is a bit rich as well.

David,

There is ample room to criticize local Democratic leaders for their failures as well. But, at the federal level, the responsibility belongs entirely to the Republican leaders of it.

Ample room surely, but if it’s appropriate towards Bush why not these officials as well? Savage them in the same way and at least we could say the left is consistant and it’s not just a partisan witchhunt. However, they shouldn’t be savaged in the same way. It’s not appropriate, just as it is not appropriate with Bush.

There might be reason to criticize the response of local, state and federal officials.

What is unseemly is how fast out of the box liberals were with their criticism. Before we even knew what has happened, they were assigning blame specifically on the President.

Then we have these accusations of greed, racism, not caring about the poor etc coming from prominent Democrats. That was just silly.

When Pat Robertson said some silly things recently, most of us on the red side disavowed his statements. You all should do the same with Pelosi, Jackson and Dean.

I truly do not think that either party agrees with the statement of the first post.
Is this a race issue - I do not agree. The majority of people in NO are black stands to reason that the majority of people left behind would be black
Is this a poverty issue- possibly but I wonder how many middle class americans could lose everything and pick up and start again with no assistance.
What this a transportation issue - yes it was and who is responsible for that - Let’s start with the individual - prepare for yorself and family. Long term health centers - ask what the plans are. Not only the poor were stranded in NO. Having said that no one should think that we will ever be able to evacuate 100% of people. That just will not happen. Goes back to individual responsibility. If I fall off a boat I will probably drown waiting on the coast guard. It would make more sense to start swiming.
First I hold individuals responsible - It was a terrible crisis that happened to those people. No one expected it to be this bad and no one is cheering that the govt failed to respond in a timely manner.
Who were the first responders - individuals
Political wars have erupted - and they should when the system fails and it did. I am paying the salary of these people to speak up and ask the tough questions. I don’t care what party they belong to but I am watching who is demanding answers. I actually watch who is voting for what and if they always vote party line then they need to go. I could vote for a party have all my votes go to the party line and say money on their salaries.
People were not qualified who were appointed to their positions - this is not new- look at the qualifications of many of ambassadors. They gave the most money to a party and in return payment get appointed. This is not new.
The new appointment of the US publicity agent - well there goes my money. We have been hated abroad for years. I wil be interested to see what she takes on first. If it is Katrina I will know the answer.
It is time we stop tearing each other apart and figure out how to fix this mess. I don’t care about gay marriage, I don’t care about abortion. Those issues can wait. I care about the budget, I care about jobs going overseas, I care about education. I care about a plan for Iraq. I care about health care. I care about alot of things that the govt can fix. If the opportunity is there and individuals don’t take advantage of them that goes to their issues not mine.
There is another Hurricane coming, Florida will be hit not with this one but another one. Just how many times do I pay for your house to be rebuilt. As an individual you should have not figured out something is not working. Perhaps when you are homeless again and my dollars do not rebuilt you might get a clue.

Headline of this post:

Comments: Country devastated: Democrats ecstatic.

Democrats ecstatic?

I think it was a Republican who said:

Better to remain silent and have the world believe you to be a fool than to open your mouth and have it confirmed. A.Lincoln

It does the public debate no good to make such claims such as the democrats are happy about this. If anyone is, they should be ashamed of themselves. Randi Rhodes is a paid talking head, just like Rush, Sean and other vitriol spewing talking heads on the right. You can’t take them seriously as they are in this for the money.

Many people liberal and conservative alike have poured money, time and sweat equity in helping those affected by this disaster. Indicating Democrats are happy about this is not only wrong, it’s an insult those democrats who are rescuing people, feeding people and helping to bring the region and the people hurt by it some comfort.

The issue isn’t about Republicans versus Democrats. It’s about competence. Mr. Brown and Mr. Chertoff have acted poorly. So has the Governor and Mayor of Louisiana and New Orleans respectively.

We need to focus on helping the folks affected and making sure our processes, methods and yes, people are effective in their efforts the next time something like this occurs.

Mr. Brown doesn’t have the qualifications for his job. It’s been relatively well documented now. His job was a political appointment based on patronage and not skill. For the president to agree to this appointment means he must accept accountability for the outcome of his actions.

Focus on the reasons for the instituional failure of the system and not making ridiculous statements that Democrats are happy this happened.

Eric,
How is saying that President Bush’s response between Katrina today and Charle/Francis is Totaly different is like Bush did order the national gaurd to shoot blacks in New Orleans. It is a Total Over Reaction. Your insinuation that Bush doesn’t care does not follow?

I just googled searched “Presidential Response Katrina” and Presidential Response Hurricanes 2004 and here is what both Whitehouse pages show. Katrina and Hurricane 2004 Two totally different response even on the Whitehouse’s on website. Shot, I even remember President Bush taking the time in Sept. 2004 out of his campaigning to hand out water to folks, but wait wasn’t that the year that he was running for Office? Says alot about where his prioities are.

As far as Florida getting hit by more hurricanes. Well considering that it sticks out between the Alantic Ocean and The Gulf of Mexico your right. However, check out the Cat 4 & 5 Hurricanes between Florida and Louisina. Florida has 6 Cat 4’s and 2 Cat 5’s while LA has 4 Cat 4’s and 1 Cat 5 not alot of difference. Sure Florida has been hit by more Cat 1’s than anybody else; however, they don’t even rate a response from most locals.

As far as Local and State response to what happen. I never said that they were exempt. You need to read up on the legality of Law. Federal Law trumps State Law trumps Local Law. Considering Mr. Chertoff put into play The National Response Plan the Law says that President Bush accepts full responsiblity. Thus, if you want to get technical the NIMS took over. The only problem is that by Law compliance under The Plan does not take effect until next year. Therefore, you had The Federal Government operating with a Game Plan while The Local and State was operating on The Old FEMA Plan which by Law supercedes NIMS. So try as much as you like to say that I am acting over the top for if a President is willing to act Presidential at a time when he is running for election than I expect him to act in the same manner after he gets elected.

Oh, thats right Mr Rove believes that now they own The Federal Government they don’t have to follow The Laws of The Land. Or are the Democrats right and President Bush doesn’t care about people unless it helps him get elected? Picutures between Charle and Katrina speak volumes. Maybe it’s time for another photo op of the President handing out water.

Eric-
Some people are going to shoot their mouths off about this on the left, and they’re going to be assholes about it. The Democratic Party is, like the Republican Party, full of people of all kinds of personalities, and different kinds of attitudes and opinions.

As for Bush’s visits, it’s the manner and perhaps tardiness of them that gets people’s goat. It’s one thing to visit a place, it’s another thing to build a potemkin village of equipment and supplies to make the president look good, then disassemble it the next day, leaving little aid there. Bush has his little formalities he goes through when he tries to sell his notions, and there so predictable its not funny. Did you hear about the firefighters looking to do rescue and aid work, who instead got shanghaied into being extras in Bush’s PR effort? That’s the kind of thoughtless behavior that negates the cachet of a visit.

You Republicans have focused on token visits and eloquent speeches, in terms of his image, yet have neglected one of the most substantial drivers of public opinion: the president’s actions and the results of his actions. You can’t promise people the moon and then give them fairy dust, and long keep their confidence.

As for Constitutional issues, It’s a damn stupid excuse. This is a multistate disaster of epic proportions, and local and state first responders were undeniably overwhelmed by the disaster. There is a shitload of precedent for dealing with disasters like this from a federal level.

But go ahead and defend people who were making political quibbles about intervening while state and local authorities were screaming for assistance. I don’t think people would have jumped that much on the Federal government for constitutional issues if that had meant getting help in days earlier than they did. Unless there was some awful kind of atrocity, it is doubtful that a prompt response would have drawn protests.

You do know the story, Eric, about Pelosi’s actual words, don’t you?

PELOSI: When I said to the president that he should fire Michael Brown, he said, “Why would I do that?” I said, “Because of all that went wrong, with all that didn’t go right last week.” And he said, “What didn’t go right?” Oblivious, in denial, dangerous.

What didn’t go right? Good God, is that the question you want your President asking after a clusterf*** like the Katrina response?

I consider the failure of leadership itself to have been nothing to be happy about. I would have loved to have been proved wrong about this president in the war and in the disaster. Unfortunately, all I have is the empty victory of vindication, a year too late for us to kick this dilettante of a president out.

At least I can look at the coverage and know that me and these people are asking the same questions to the right man for the right reasons. It feels good to be one with my fellow Americans in asking the president and all others who worsened this tragedy by their incompetence to give an honest accounting of their actions.

I’ve got a question that’s been bugging me for sometie now. And I’ll bet that I won’t get a straight answer, but I’ll get a lot of attacks on both me and Bush.

Why are liberials always so full oh hate for anyone that disagrees with them?

Dennis,

It does the public debate no good to make such claims such as the democrats are happy about this. If anyone is, they should be ashamed of themselves.

And calling Bush incompetent does? The problem you have is that this isn’t the first claim like this. Bush was responsible for allowing 9/11 to happen as well. I recall going around and around about this with esteemed fellows on this very blog. These are slanderous words against the president which have no basis in fact and yet they are not only accepted by the left they are picked up, repeated, and magnified.

You should be ashamed that these people are representing you.

Randi Rhodes is a paid talking head, just like Rush, Sean and other vitriol spewing talking heads on the right. You can’t take them seriously as they are in this for the money.

Again, not an isolated comment made by fringe leftist wackos. The left has made a huge shift into leftist wackoism. These comments are being made across the board on the left.

Many people liberal and conservative alike have poured money, time and sweat equity in helping those affected by this disaster. Indicating Democrats are happy about this is not only wrong, it’s an insult those democrats who are rescuing people, feeding people and helping to bring the region and the people hurt by it some comfort.

Exactly. Which is why the left should take jack’s advice to me up above. What I’m trying to get through to you is that it is an insult to the right for the left to use Katrina as an opportunity to slander the President.

I say ecstatic because it’s as though they are reveling in this vindictiveness. Democrats are ecstatic.

ec stat ic (ek-stat’ik) adj.
1. Marked by or expressing ecstasy.
2. Being in a state of ecstasy; joyful or enraptured.

It’s a pain in the -you know what- to have to repudiate these kinds of statements.

Pathetic! The rhetoric coming out of you liberals is asinine! The President can only mobilize the national guard at the Governor’s request! You’re completely ignoring the inept response of the local government, and laying the blame squarely at bush’s feet. How can you say there was no response? Was bush supposed to go down and personally battle this hurricane on the beach, and wrestle it into submission? Or should he have pulled thousands of combat trained national guardsmen out of Iraq to use their mortars and m-16’s on the flood? Perhaps the national guardsmen already there, that were trained specifically for this type of thing, would better! Don’t you think? Oh, but we didn’t send them there soon enough! We should have had them down there DURING the hurricane, so we’d have to send people to rescue all of them as well! You people don’t make sense! You’re holding this President to standards that no other public figure could ever live up to! You know, the least the mayor of NO could do, was commandeer some of those school buses and bus those people out. But no, he was holding out for greyhounds! You don’t even address any of the criticism of his post. He outlines in case after case how Democrats are giddily milking this event for all the political ammunition and campaign contributions they can get! And all you do is attack the messenger. Typical liberals. Just because there are a lot of you in here, doesn’t make you right. The fact is, the local authorities were the incompetent ones. The red cross was in mississippi, ready to give aid and medical attention to the people in that stadium two days after the storm hit. But the governor stalled, and wouldn’t allow them in because they figured that if they gave them aid, they’d want to stay. Apparently, a few people dying didn’t bother her if it motivated them to get out. But you’ll ignore that, and say that Bush should have grossly overstepped his constitutional authority, and taken charge. Get a clue.

Ron,
Explain why it is ok for Rush to slam every Democrat or any oyher party for not doing what is in the inherent best interest of America and our Citizens and the Liberals have neever called his speech “Hate,” but if a Liberal speaks out at what is obvious a screw up by a Republican than somehow your party takes it as “Hate.” Thus creating a natural double standard for Americans.

No, I don’t “Hate” Bush for not grabing the “Bull by the Horns” when it comes to Katrina; however, I do hold him and our other Elected Officials responsible for their Words anf Actions. As well as blast them when they put their party’s ideology above that of The Founding Fathers of America and the Documents that they were Sworn to protect even if that means lost of Life.

Right, Eric, us liberals are completely ecstatic to see images of poor black people lying dead in the street. We’re well known for that kind of thing in fact.

What I’m nauseated by is YOUR accusatory tirade above. If you really wanted to unite not divide (!) you wouldn’t be posting this slime. Some people on both sides have gone over the line - I could dig up plenty of shoot-the-looters-to-kill and let-the-darkies-fend-for-themselves crap from the freepers, or even from this board - but I didn’t. Congrats, Eric, you’ve totally outdone yourself, the very premise of your posting is contradictory.

Oh I don’t know about hating. One side likes big govt, keeps poor in a cycle of dependence, feels that throwing money will fix just about everything, tells me that giving up my guns would reduce crime. The other side attacks foreign countries, keeps the terrorist alert high so people finally ignore it, worries about what books people read, outs CIA agents.

Neither party is worth much imo. I wonder where the voice of reason is gonna come from?

Well stated Henry Schlatman.

Ron,

I’m a liberal that has been working in the middle of the Hell in NO and Biloxi…..

Does that sound like hate to you?

Peace!

I have to agree with Eric on this one.

All of us know the intensity of the left’s feelings about the administration and the president. To say that their response to the Katrina disaster is based on facts and reason instead of this hatred would be an insult to the very concept of facts and reason. It’s pretty obvious that liberals these days start with their conclusions and then work backwards, picking and gleaning the evidence that fits those foregone conclusions and ignoring everything else.

Something similar once happened, I’ll admit, in the right’s attitude toward Clinton, but even then there were many conservative politicans and pundits who publicly drew back from the brink, said “Look, now this is going to far.” We have no such instinct for fundamental decency on the left right now, no sense of any limit whatsoever.

I have no doubt that if the left could accuse Bush of being a child-rapist to hurt him politically, they would go right ahead and do it even if they knew it wasn’t true. I have no doubt at all.

I’m not as upset and sickened by this debased spectacle as I was in the past however, because it simply is not as important as it used to be.
I remember these things going on before the election last year around this time—the forged documents, etcetera—and it was far worse beause
you couldn’t be sure what the consequences would be.

There isn’t another major election for more than a year, not another presidential election for more than three years—and there’s more than enough time to wash off whatever mud the Democrats are getting their five minutes of satisfaction out of flinging now.

Another thing: whether next week, next year, or the year after, there are going to be more major hurricanes hitting the gulf states.

Since the Democrats have indicated their desire to treat these disasters as opportunities for political theater, I have no doubt that when the next one hits you’ll see the White House put on quite a show. This is regretable, stooping to that level, but the dems have made it necessary. Washington won’t do as they did this time and just perform the usual federal duties. They’ll put on an entire public relations campaign for the consumption of the American public.

Personally, I’d find it satisfying if this involved deposing under the insurrection statutes every Democratic state leader whose jurisdiction lies not only in the path of the disaster but in the potential path of the disaster. After all, that’s what what would have been needed to change the outcome of the Katrina disaster, so it must be what the Democrats want.

FINALLY someone admitted it about Clinton. I am not really surprised to see the other side do the same thing to Bush. No one has a mandate. The elections were too close. Can we figure out how to fix the mess the children in the playground called Congress made. Ohio is fighting to get an indep panel to divide districts. Man are the politicos yelling, taking it to court etc. They are trying hard to keep it off the ballot. The ones screaming the loudest are the Repubs. What are they so afraid of.

look folks I hate to disappoint but there really isn’t much difference between the two parties.

The Dems accused the Repubs of politicizing the Clinton situation (which I feel they did) and the Repubs are now accusing the Dems of politicizing Katrina (which I feel they are).

The democrats were the tax and spend party.

The republicans ARE the tax cut and spend MORE party.

Both parties sling mud, both parties burn our tax dollars, both parties grow government, and both parties tend to abuse their power.

As a populace let’s get over the perceived divide, become Americans, help our neighbors, and vote out every incumbent from both parties (excepting a FEW from both sides that have kept their mind on America…regardless of party…there ain’t many of those folks)

Tom, what you’re proposing is exactly what should have happened in the aftermath of Katrina but didn’t because one political party thought they smelled blood in the water and turned into a bunch of frenzied feeding sharks, complete with the unthinking viciousness and blind aggression that any viewer of the Discovery channel would instantly recognize.

We should have all pulled together, bit our tongues, and only starting sniping once the rescue and relief efforts had settled down. And no matter what your view on the Katrina response and who you blame, fundamental decency would have dictated that we all at least wait until people were safe before indulging in recriminations. There’s plenty of time for that.

But now, the Democrats—and they are solely to blame on this one—insited on going to war before the bodies were even cold. When Republicans assigned blame to local and state officials, it was done as defense in the face of a massive onslaught.

Even if Democrats are TOTALLY RIGHT (which I do not believe) there is absolutely no excuse for starting the war now instead of later. But they can’t help it. They’re not thinking about what’s appropriate. They’re thinking only of their visceral hatred for the President of the United States.

Oh well Sanger as long as the right did it in defense of themselves of course I forgive them. People complaining had nothing to do with help not getting in it was a plot of the lefties to take over power. I fully understand the error of their ways. Thank you.

CLO, I don’t know (correct if I’m wrong) of any administrations officials joining in the conservative editorial and blogosphere counteroffensive. Bush certainly has not done so.

The President can Federalize the national guard, Madmatt. We’re not ignoring that things could have been done better on the local level, but once Bush declared it a National Emergency, the authority and the responsibility was his.

Tell me something: What is your defense for our nation’s leader continuing his vacation for a day or two after Katrina made landfall? Why didn’t your oh so competent president not drop his vacation days before the Hurricane struck? Why is he taking such long vacations anyways. He’s only got a little under three more years left on his term. He’s got years after he leave office to rest and relax. Right now, though he’s leader of the free world, and I’d like to see more initiative out of him.

How we can say there wasn’t a quick enough response? I don’t know, maybe it was those people spending four days starving, thirsting, and dying that made us think he was too slow. Never mind whether the locals screwed things up, isn’t the point of these relief efforts to get help where it needs to be when it needs to be there? Or maybe we should just let bureaucratic snafus dictate who lives and who dies. You can lay blame on the Mayor of New Orleans for not commandeering a Bus, but all of his vehicles at that point were cut off by the flood waters. What was he supposed to do, float them down the streets and hand the evacuees oars?

I can’t understand why you and folks like you play so cavalierly with the constitution when it comes to fighting terrorism, but when it comes time to save your own countrymen, you justify constitutional quibbles that probably aren’t even applicable.
Here is my answer to the notion that this was a constitutional issue:

As Media Matters for America noted, the National Response Plan prescribes a “proactive federal response” to “catastrophic events” such as Hurricane Katrina. Under such a response, standard procedures regarding requests for federal aid by state governments are expedited or even suspended so that “federal response resources” may be immediately deployed. The National Response Plan stipulates that the federal government must notify and coordinate with the state, but “the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.”

Additionally, The New York Times reported on September 9 that the Bush administration recognized the federal government’s authority to assume full control of the Hurricane Katrina relief efforts as the situation in New Orleans deteriorated after the levees were breached. However, according to the Times: “For reasons of practicality and politics, officials at the Justice Department and the Pentagon, and then at the White House, decided not to urge Mr. Bush to take command of the effort. Instead, the Washington officials decided to rely on the growing number of National Guard personnel flowing into Louisiana, who were under Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco’s control.”

The Bush administration decided to play political games instead of expediting the relief effort. With the Bush administration, the only tool is a hammer, and every problem looks like a nail. They spend all the time avoiding political traps to fall into ones of bad policy.

As for the Red Cross? This from Media matters, quoting a September 2nd interview with Larry King

KING: Joining us now in Washington is Marty Evans, the president and CEO of the American Red Cross. She traveled with the president today. The Red Cross is not in New Orleans. Why?

EVANS: Well, Larry, when the storm came, our goal was prior to landfall to support the evacuation. It was unsafe to be in the city. We were asked by the city not to be there, and the Superdome was made a shelter of last resorts and, quite frankly in retrospect, it was a good idea because otherwise those people would have had no shelter at all.

We have our shelters north of the city. We’re prepared as soon as they can be evacuated, we’re prepared to receive them in Texas, in other states, but it was not safe to be in the city, and it’s not been safe to go back into the city. They were also concerned that if we located, relocated back into the city, people wouldn’t leave, and they’ve got to leave.

[…]

EVANS: Well, Larry, we were asked, directed by the National Guard and the city and the state emergency management not to go into New Orleans because it was not safe. We are not a search and rescue organization. We provide shelter and basic support, and so we were depending, we are depending on the state and the agencies to get people to our shelters in safe places.

Evacuation was the idea, not aid in place. It is no mercy to keep these people fed and hydrated, if you’re doing it in the middle of the cesspit NOLA’s become. Both points would have been moot had FEMA brought the transportation in quicker. food, water and medical aid could have reached those in the shelters before the situation turned the places into pits of hell. Additionally, With FEMA’a authority would come the Red Cross’s authority to operate, regardless of any mayor or governor:

In touting Evans’s assertion that state officials blocked the Red Cross from New Orleans to avoid encouraging people to stay or return, Fox News and others have omitted another key fact: It was the federal government that was primarily responsible for coordinating operations, including the activities of the Red Cross. Presumably, if FEMA had deemed it necessary for the Red Cross to enter New Orleans, the agency could have intervened with state authorities at any time. Both the federal Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP) and the Red Cross’ charter clearly place the Red Cross under the purview of FEMA. Further, the response plan stipulates that federal agencies should strive for full coordination with state officials but not allow such coordination to “impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.”

According to the federal charter of the American Red Cross, the organization has “the legal status of ‘a federal instrumentality’ ” with “responsibilities delegated to it by the Federal government.” Listed among these responsibilities is “to maintain a system of domestic and international disaster relief, including mandated responsibilities under the Federal Response Plan coordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).”

The NRP represents the most recently approved “federal response plan.” It confirms that the Red Cross falls under the purview of the federal government:

This plan is applicable to all Federal departments and agencies that may be requested to provide assistance or conduct operations in the context of actual or potential Incidents of National Significance. This includes the American Red Cross, which functions as an Emergency Support Function (ESF) primary organization in coordinating the use of mass care resources in a Presidentially declared disaster or emergency.

[…]

Departments and agencies at all levels of government and certain NGOs, such as the American Red Cross, may be required to deploy to Incidents of National Significance on short notice to provide timely and effective mutual aid and/or intergovernmental assistance.

Bush could do plenty if he chose. If his advisors told him what was actually going on. If he was there, off vacation, in the White House, keeping the watch on what was guaranteed to be America’s worst hurricane ever.

Again, and again, it all comes back to the Federal response, and to the way this administration handled it. You can’t avoid it. You can push the blame out from your blessed president, but it’s going to snap back at him and you like Wiley Coyote’s slingshot every time.

Sanger-
Listen to yourself. You’re twice the partisan you claim folks like me to be. We present you with relevant quotes and excerpts from laws, plans and articles, and you call us slanderer and liars. Have you bothered to determine the truth for yourself here? Bothered to read a word that any of us has written?

Or are you too busy convincing yourself that the liberals are out to get America? Look, I’ve played the loyal foot soldier for the cause myself, and in the end, you get nothing done, nobody’s happy, and the politicans dance around us…

So long as we don’t criticize based on the facts. The facts are whats important here. We know the President’s powers. We know his authority under the law, and he didn’t use his authority. He didn’t even return from vacation until a couple days into the disaster. He could have legally taken over and ordered everything in himself, bringing not just the Red Cross but everybody else in…

But in the end, he did what he did, and he did it too late for hundreds, if not thousands of Americans. People like myself do not believe that such negligence should be encouraged or countenanced in this day and age.

sanger,

And a Republican minority would act any differently?

My point is, there is no difference when it comes to this type of reaction. Each party (that includes the REPUBLICANS) are out for mainly one thing and one thing only…..POWER!!!!

Eric,

With as much cable news I’ve watched, as many critics of the administration I’ve heard from, and as many Black leaders that have weighed in, the first time any literal use of the term ‘racist’ I’ve seen, has been in this very column post. Variations on the actual ‘R’ word are there in your loaded context and hyperbole, but the words never came out of Jesse Jackson’s mouth.

As Slate’s Jacob Weisberg points out, there’s an unspecific missing component then that should explain the stark difference comparing FEMA and the administration’s effective response to the Florida hurricanes in September 2004 - if it was not about race.

Stephen,

As for Bush’s visits, it’s the manner and perhaps tardiness of them that gets people’s goat. It’s one thing to visit a place, it’s another thing to build a potemkin village of equipment and supplies to make the president look good, then disassemble it the next day, leaving little aid there.

Potemkin village? This is irrational. Manner and tardiness? The truth is that no matter when he went you would believe it is the wrong manner and timing. What if he was down there right away? Obviously a callous political move. How do you know that Bush didn’t delay such a trip on purpose knowing that his very presence surrounded by all the secret service protection and presidential vehicles etc would get in the way at the early stages of rescue? Why not wait until your visit will not impede rescue efforts?

So tell me what manner and timing would please you?

Jesse Jackson is travelling through these same devastated areas in a caravan of buses denouncing Bush as a racist and his visit as a ‘ceremonial tour’. Is that the correct manner and timing?

It is ludicrous that we even have to talk about this.

You Republicans have focused on token visits and eloquent speeches, in terms of his image, yet have neglected one of the most substantial drivers of public opinion: the president’s actions and the results of his actions.

But then why are you making the manner and timing of his token visits a primary issue of objection? I tune out the token visits and eloquent speeches (see you really do have a distorted view of Bush, eloquent?). They are perhaps the least interesting things to me.

As for Constitutional issues, It’s a damn stupid excuse. This is a multistate disaster of epic proportions, and local and state first responders were undeniably overwhelmed by the disaster. There is a shitload of precedent for dealing with disasters like this from a federal level.

There are? A shitload? When was the last time three states were devastated this way?

Do you expect that in a multistate disaster of epic proportions that somebody somewhere isn’t going to fail to do something in the right way in the right time and be immediately savaged politically? Is that your recipe for accountability? I’m not sure it is. It’s convenient that Bush is the only one you deem incompetent here. It’s convenient that we can fudge facts on what Bush did or didn’t do, but to question those facts is “shifting the blame”.

But go ahead and defend people who were making political quibbles about intervening while state and local authorities were screaming for assistance. I don’t think people would have jumped that much on the Federal government for constitutional issues if that had meant getting help in days earlier than they did. Unless there was some awful kind of atrocity, it is doubtful that a prompt response would have drawn protests.

Ok. So it’s not right for me to defend against outrageous politically motivated accusations? Is that a principle you adhere to as well? Or is this a do as I say not as I do sort of thing?

First of all, is that really how it happened? Local and State officials were screaming for Bush to do something and he said, “No, gotta wait a few days.” Can you explain that to me? Do you have any details about why assistance was kept out of New Orleans? I haven’t heard that Bush ordered it held back. But your version certainly does sound alot like the quotes about orders to keep the response slow and ‘shoot to kill blacks’.

What didn’t go right? Good God, is that the question you want your President asking after a clusterf*** like the Katrina response?

I consider the failure of leadership itself to have been nothing to be happy about. I would have loved to have been proved wrong about this president in the war and in the disaster. Unfortunately, all I have is the empty victory of vindication, a year too late for us to kick this dilettante of a president out.

Well, I know that this is motivated primarily by the war. Thank you for admitting it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t change the fact that it would be better to forgo the harsh and bitter political fighting that the left has begun here in a time that is, after all, a “multistate disaster of epic proportions”.

It feels good to be one with my fellow Americans in asking the president and all others who worsened this tragedy by their incompetence to give an honest accounting of their actions.

This is a time of mercy and assistance, not a time to get one up on your enemies. This is why I despair watching this unfold and why I’m ranting. I have more respect for you than you might think I do. Give me facts, not characterizations of facts. The fact that Bush visits with secret service agents and lots of stuff doesn’t make it a potemkin village.

Henry,

As far as Local and State response to what happen. I never said that they were exempt.

Sorry, I took silence to mean exemption. My mistake.

Shot, I even remember President Bush taking the time in Sept. 2004 out of his campaigning to hand out water to folks, but wait wasn’t that the year that he was running for Office? Says alot about where his prioities are…

…Or are the Democrats right and President Bush doesn’t care about people unless it helps him get elected? Picutures between Charle and Katrina speak volumes. Maybe it’s time for another photo op of the President handing out water.

So let me try to get this straight, was it bad for Bush to go to Florida during the election because it looked like he was just trying to pretend to care and he should just stay away from the hurricane area, or is it bad for Bush to go to the hurricane area now because he doesn’t appear to care because he’s not handing out water in a photo-op…

or am I just confused about exactly what motivation you are acribing to visiting disaster areas?

Should Bush go down without cameras? Like, have the secret service break their legs or something and keep the news media away? Or maybe… he should just not worry about how how you are going to perceive any visit because no matter what he does you are going to see in it whatever evil motivation you want.

Eric Simonson:

Maybe instead of bashing the Liberals, you could instead list the things Bush DID do right? That way we can see how you perceive the great job Bush is doing.

William,

Right, Eric, us liberals are completely ecstatic to see images of poor black people lying dead in the street. We’re well known for that kind of thing in fact.

You missed my (admittedly too subtle?) point. The country is devasted -and- they seem to be ecstatic about attacking Bush.

What I’m nauseated by is YOUR accusatory tirade above. - I could dig up plenty of shoot-the-looters-to-kill and let-the-darkies-fend-for-themselves crap from the freepers, or even from this board - but I didn’t. Congrats, Eric, you’ve totally outdone yourself, the very premise of your posting is contradictory.

I understand. I expected that it would be. Now you know exactly how I’ve felt all through this disaster and why the left should have never gone there. Imagine you’re watching as the hurricane wreaks it’s devastation across three states. You see your fellow Americans in need and then the above quotes begin. It becomes a mantra. Virtually every democrat that has been on tv has repeated the call to blame Bush. I’m thinking, what is this? I wait. and wait. But I have yet to hear one democrat or liberal denounce a single statement. Not one. It’s all true they seem to be saying.

If you really wanted to unite not divide (!) you wouldn’t be posting this slime. Some people on both sides have gone over the line…

So it’s ok if your half of watchblog posts this ‘slime’ but if you simply quote what the left is actually saying, elected democratic officials mind you, not freepers, (I didn’t go the easy route, like visiting democrats.com for instance where some really really really outrageous comments could be had) then I’m posting slime?

You should be nauseated. You should actually be nauseated by what your party is getting carried away with. The democratic party has been taken over by it’s fringe. Democrats.com and Michael Moore et al are now the intellectual influence over the party.

I have to agree with sanger here:

To say that their response to the Katrina disaster is based on facts and reason instead of this hatred would be an insult to the very concept of facts and reason. It’s pretty obvious that liberals these days start with their conclusions and then work backwards, picking and gleaning the evidence that fits those foregone conclusions and ignoring everything else.

Eric, Eric, Eric,
PLEASE, don’t tell me that your are that politically blind. Look throughout our history, how many times has our media stated that those running for an elected office have to be seen “Kissing Babies?” Do you honestly believe that if our government screwed up in 2004 as bad as they have to date that President Bush and The Republican Party would of won The Whitehouse & control of Congress?

In the Third Party section of this blog under “Too Little Too Late” I posted in the comments two pictures so I won’t do it here. However, to say that President Bush and The Big Red Republican Machine wasn’t motivated in 2004 to do a good job shows a lack of reason & logic.

Compare that effort and the citizens who was hit the hardest with today’s effort and citizens who was hit the hardest and the Emergency Response from The Federal Government in each case. Is there a difference? Absolutely! What is the greatest factor between them? One had the Whitehouse riding on the Response and the other allows The Political Parties 3 years to allow the majority of citizens to forget. The Truth is stranger than fiction because I couldn’t even of come up with this idea except for the fact that it has happened so many times in our history it is almost normal for the party in charge to do such a thing.

Why then did Bush have the Corps dropping sandbags on the levees instead of bombs? The more the hate mongering, racists, militant left spew out their venom, the better ideological cleansing looks!

Guiedo Visp,
With New Orleans being one of the top Three Cities in America most likely to be hit with a disaster including a terrorist attack according to a 2001 FEMA Report, why was not a full comprehensive plan well established by Homeland Security?

In fact, a year ago FEMA mocked the problem in an exercise. No amount of spin or turning a blind eye to the problems America as a Nation and Society faces in the 21st Century can excuse The Youth of the 60’s actions. Shot, you even imagine what would of happened in America if this Human Event took place in 1970 after Kent State? Talk about “Burning down The House.”

No, the problems that Americans are facing today comes from the same problems that they rebelled against the parents “Establishment” almost 40 years ago. Now, since history repeats itself our Society is faced with the same question. Do we want to live under a government that wants to openly lie (intended or not) to the public, oppress our citizens into poverty, and allow things within their control to cost Americans lives out of Ignorance and Stupidity?

A silent political revolution is building up in this Nation and others, the question the Democrats & Republicans needs to ask themselve as a party is who will become “The Loyal Opposition” to the New World Order Party?

So let me get this straight. Republicans are being victimized? They are whining about being attacked. Thats alot like victimizing poor old Mike Tyson for getting beat up in the ring isn’t it.

Actions speak louder than words and pictures are worth a thousand words. The actions and pictures in New Orleans say it all.

Lets see. 1) Devastating hurricane on Monday - New Orleans washed away - thousands die 2) Bush cuts his vacation short by 1 day on Wednesday 3) Cheney gets out of bed after a hard week on Thursday to see what’s going on 4) Michael Brown discovers on Thursday from NBC Nightly News that Apache Helicopters could actually be used to drop food and supplies to sick and starving people. 5) Friday - White House Damage control and spin, spin, spin.

For a President who has worn 9-11 around like a cape for the past 4 years. He sure is running from this catastrophy.

Its the response from our leaders that has everybody (left, right and middle) up in arms.

I miss the Republicans of old. Let me ask the right something. Did the buck stop at Mr. Bush’s desk this time or does he just have to get on with his life? You know there’s some brush that has to get cleared off his property in Crawford and a bike ride followed by a nap does do the body good.

Like I said, Actions speak louder than words and approx. 10,000 dead in New Orleans speaks volumes.

Eric-
It’s not irrational to call it a potemkin village. You may wish to call me irrational because then you can’t lose the argument. After all, who can win with somebody who’s not being logical? It’s cheaper in terms of effort than actually making a good point.

Nothing I said was untrue. Mary Landrieu flew over the site the day after and there was a single piece of equipment left over, and nothing else. If the place was really functioning as Bush would have us believe, it would have been a center of activity even then.

What manner and timing would have pleased me? Thanks for asking. How about two or three days earlier, without the political theatre, with officials at the top who actually knew what they were doing. Five of the Eight directors of FEMA under Michael Brown had no disaster relief experience. Brown’s own qualifications seem to be a fudged resume, and being the former roomate of the Last FEMA chief of One Mr. Allbaugh. Allbaugh’s qualifications? He helped run Bush’s campaign. Nothing else.

As for Jesse Jackson, he’s not the leader of the free world. He can denounce Bush as racist (you have any quotes on that, Eric?) and be two or three days late to the scene because He’s not the president. If it’s seems like I’m applying a different standard, indeed I am. I am expecting more out of the man who’s supposed to be leading the effort than I am about a man like Jesse Jackson, who can at most claim to be a concerned citizen.

There are? A shitload? When was the last time three states were devastated this way?

I assume you were around for 1993’s Mississippi flood, correct? Any number of cities were flooded along the Mississipi. Did Clinton whine about his best? No, he did his best, and quietly put the Federal Government to work aiding overwhelmed state and local officials.

I would have these standards regardless of who’s in power. I would not accept Clinton leaving tens of thousands stranded for days while he gets his act together If you want to talk about the right standard for accoutability, first you have to be willing to hold your leaders accountable.

If there was one thing people could agree with at that time, it’s that the federal response was crap. It’s actually an overwhelming point of agreement with Americans, something like eighty percent.

The State and Local officials, Red or Blue, all share some of the Blame. They should get their due, with the mitigation of what they did after the floods got going. I have no problem with holding Democrats responsible, after the facts have been settled on that account.

All that said, The Federal response needed to be there. There was no way emergency services and first responders in those places hardest hit were going to be able to survive intact after this storm hit. It is a convenient fiction for your side that federal officials are supposed to simply support and aid local officials. The truth, both as the Federal disaster plans and FEMA history would tell you, is that the Feds are supposed to take the lead on this, because the federal government will have the power, the resources and the chain of command to get things done, across state lines.

The inexcusable thing was that FEMA told these people that help was on its way. This wasn’t FEMA telling them, oh we got to get ourselves together here, get these people some food and water. No, it was “help is on the way”. As well it should have been.

All the politics and other B.S. were immaterial. The mistakes of the evacuation and the efforts leading up to that Hurricane were over and done with. If any of their staff had been watching the news, they would have known about the Superdome situation at the very least, which was pretty bad, and the Convention center situation, which was something out of Dante’s Inferno.

Can you explain that to me? Do you have any details about why assistance was kept out of New Orleans? I haven’t heard that Bush ordered it held back. But your version certainly does sound alot like the quotes about orders to keep the response slow and ‘shoot to kill blacks’.

My response sounds a lot like get people the hell where they need to be. What those people in the Superdome and the Morial Convention center needed was help getting out. Getting supplies in there to those people wasn’t going to solve the problem, and according to quotes in one of my other response, everybody knew it.

My response contained nothing in the way of insinuations of racism, or conspiracy to kill the people there. I can understand why folks would begin to feel like Bush was maliciously ignoring those people, but I just chalk it up to incompetence, bureaucratic behavior, and poor situational awareness, which are bad enough in my book. They should be bad in your book. Why you don’t admit this is beyond me.

Your quote:

Well, I know that this is motivated primarily by the war. Thank you for admitting it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t change the fact that it would be better to forgo the harsh and bitter political fighting that the left has begun here in a time that is, after all, a “multistate disaster of epic proportions”.

My quote:

I consider the failure of leadership itself to have been nothing to be happy about. I would have loved to have been proved wrong about this president in the war and in the disaster. Unfortunately, all I have is the empty victory of vindication, a year too late for us to kick this dilettante of a president out.

I got a question for you: When’s the last time I posted something on Iraq? Don’t answer, I’ll tell you: The 27th of August. Since then, I have written four entries on the issue, and made many comments on other’s entries. I’ve made no entries and few comments regarding the war.

I’ve never been light on the War, or on Karl Rove, or on any of my targets, but since the 27th, I’ve basically dropped all that. This is an event which is the equal of 9/11 in its historic significance, and which may far exceed the Iraq war in terms of how it determines our future path through history.

Do I say such things lightly, having spent more than a year on this site focusing on these issues? No, I don’t.

You don’t want facts. You want a world built around president Bush. I’m not going to do you the disservice of saying that you don’t care about the victims of Katrina. I know you do. But you are serving two masters here, and only one of them is truly expendable. You and I both know which one that is.

My clusterf*** comment was in reply to your repeating of a myth about Pelosi’s response, a myth that excluded what the president said to her to get that response. What the president said to her:

“What didn’t go right?”

Indicates my central problem with this president. This is the man who in the last debates, after a controversial first term filled with what could be charitably called lost opportunities and missed goals said he couldn’t recall any mistakes.

A man who can’t acknowledge his mistakes can’t fix them. He surrounds himself with people who don’t argue with him, who don’t step outside his box of right-thinking, who serve his political cause loyally. Worse, he only really listens to them. You call that smart, I call that a recipe for living in a bubble, and that’s not something we should encourage in a president, even if we can’t kick him out of office for it. I’m resigned to Bush’s staying in office, and though I wish his term were over faster, I wouldn’t complain if he tried to clean up some of the messes he made.

If you got the idea that I dislike Bush simply for being a Republican, you’re wrong. After all, I went to a university where the political debate was between two different student Republican organizations.

I dislike Bush to the extent I do, because he sought out the power without the wisdom and the experience to use it wisely, and now divides this country so that half the people can give excuses to the other half about why he doesn’t do his job. Under normal circumstances, it’d be annoying, and a little costly. But in this day and age? He’s like a punishment from God.

Even as ideological as Reagan was, Reagan at least listened to more than one arm of his party, and was civil with the Democrats. He knew that your power wasn’t just in your party, but in your support even among people who disagree with your ideology. Reagan never made the mistake of writing off half the American population, especially not in times of need.

Written four entries on Katrina, pardon me.

Typical liberal response to the original post. Sidestep the facts to continue the political assault on the Administaration. It’s a political whitewash. Whatever happened in NO was due to the inept Democratic politicians from La. This was the main cause of the delays in reponse to the hurricane. They also bare the reponsibility for not attempting to evacuate their own citizens sooner. People forget and are conveniently led to ignore the fact that Tue AFTER the storm had passed La. politicians were telling the country “we dodged a bullet here”. Then by Tue evening after the levees failed “it’s all Bushs fault.” Please spare us this sham.

Mark,

The FEDERAL funding for the levees in N.O. was cut/scrapped in 2002 to pay for the war in Iraq. Its a Corp of Engineers issue, not a local issue. Lack of federal management of levees caused the city to be lost, not the hurricane itself. Please stick to the facts while defending the federal lack response to the crisis.

reed

Yes PLEASE do stick to the facts. Check the FACTS how much money was SPENT during the last 5 yrs in La. compared to the previous 5 yrs?

Mark,
Where did you find the $ amount spent and actions taken on the levees over the last ten years. I’ve searched for the numbers from the Army Corp of Engineers as well as State and Local Authorities without any luck. So if your have Officials Documents please post them because what is being reported and bloged about is articles not The Facts.

The most partisan attacks in history????

Were you born AFTER the “Clinton” scandal… you know the one in which the scandalous Republicans brought the government to a halt and spent millions investigating a 30-40 thousand dollar deal which was supported only by the testimony of partisans and a known criminal, David Hale, only to hound the president for getting a blow job?

Do you remember the liberal press giving Clinton a pass? Was the truth at issue there or was it a political pile-on by the conservatives and the press?

Are you lying to yourself, totally blind to conservative manipulations, or just plain stupid??

The Republicans started an attack game to subvert the political process of debating ISSUES and focused on “character”, i.e. attacking people’s personal lives not the issue. Now the Republicans are in power on all fronts, you want people to stop playing your game???

Mark-
You’ve got no room to criticize my post as being typical of a partisan, of being a political whitewash, or of me sidestepping the facts.

First of all, your entire paragraph’s worth of material contains no new information, only the GOP talking points on the issue. Second, I’m excusing no one.

When all is said and done, and fair and impartial investigation is made into this debacle, I will gladly see the Democrats go who failed their country at this crucial time. They aren’t worthy of their constituents. There will be plenty of time for that later, though. Local officials, whether they be Democrats or Republicans are needed at their posts right now. They have the choice to do after the disaster what they failed to do before it: help save lives and restore their communities.

They also have the choice to do things the honorable way, when everything is said and done. They can look back at their decisions, and confess what they have done. What happens from their is up to their consciences, and the voters. I will not have my party stonewall now, so the unworthy members of my party can later replicate this foul-up later to everybody’s sorrow.

Third, I haven’t sidestepped the facts. You could take a paragraph to call me a typical liberal and paint me as a lying schemer who just wants to tar and feather Bush, but neither you, nor Eric seemed able to address the factual issues. Eric failed to acknowledge the first part of the quote that I filled out, where the president asked Nancy Pelosi “What went wrong” about the Katrina relief effort.

He just went on and targeted the word order in my next few sentences to allege that my criticism of Bush’s handling of the relief effort and disaster preparedness was just an extension of my dislike of his handling of the war. How’s that for factual sidestepping. You? You go all revisionist and 20/20 hindsight about the feeling people had at that point, because the most violent parts of Katrina did not cross over New Orleans. People did indeed think that We had dodged the bullet there. There was no shame in that. Had the levees held, all the debate about who held up fund (Bush) or who mispent them (a number of Democrats and Republicans), would have been a side issue at best, and a moot point otherwise. They didn’t hold up, so the political shrapnel from the explosive revelations is going to hit everybody.

The thing is, you call me a liar, you call me ill-informed, but I never see you or Eric, or many other Republicans countering facts with facts. I laid out the facts of the impressive relief set up Bush brought in and took right out, the qualifications of those Bush appointed to run FEMA, the fact that Jesse Jackson does not have the kind of job that would make his lack of prompt response an issue, The fact that the Mississippi flood was a pretty substantial disaster affecting multiple states, and what exactly Nancy Pelosi said, and what justified her characterization of the president as dangerously out of touch.

As for being a typical liberal, I praised Reagan for his civility and noted that I went to college at a very conservative institution. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to be a liberal, but I think it’s foolish and counterproductive to lump us all together as if we didn’t have different views amongst ourselves.

No one is ecstatic. You are doing the same sensationalizing you are accusing the Democrats of. What a hypocrite you are!!!

The New Orleans tragedy represents failure at the highest levels and you would have us let it go so it can happen again. Can’t the Bushies take responsibility for anything? Oh right, I forgot, Bush cannot think of one mistake he made.

Stephen,
No what Mark and other Republicans are overlooking is the very serious fact that it was Corporate Lawyers that caused this problem. While they are quick about calling to our attention some of the screw up of The Trail Lawyers in America, it is looking more and more like Corporate Lawyers caused the Red Tape when they asked if Katrina caused the flooding or was it the Levees lack of maintenance?

Even today we are hereing Insurance companies trying to use that same excuse to deny paying their customers. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, if the answer I got from my Local Officals response to my question are any indication than President Bush is the one left holding the “Political Football.” Because by Law he is the only person in Government that can overide protocol. Informed or not it was his call.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/07/AR2005090702462.html Please provide ANY figures showing $$ taken directly from flood control projects and sent to Iraq. That is other than Liberal blather which we are supposed to take as gospel because some liberal uttered it on CNN.

Stephen Berman
The New Orleans tragedy represents failure at the highest levels and you would have us let it go so it can happen again.

Your right, on the highest state levels.

Henry Schlatman
Rush isn’t always right. Infact I don’t care for the guy. It’s guys like him that make conservitives look bad.

Tom L
Going to New Orleans doesn’t mean you don’t have hatred for those that disagree with you.

Still no straight ansewer to my question.

I have re-read my posts. I fail to find liar schemer etc in then. Perhaps they were in’code’ perhaps another ‘conservative’ conspiracy? I am not a republican by the way. Just a disillusioned permanently Ex Democrat.

EricSimonson,
I’m appalled at the lack of civil discourse in this thread. It started with the DESPICABLE LIE that Democrats are ecstatic that there are thousands of people dead. And when several people, including myself, tried to point out that lie out, we get slimed with the tired old cliches that Democrats are nothing more than “Bush bashers”, that they all hate America and are pleased when things go wrong.

Were some of those comments you quoted over the top? Yes, they were. So what? In this country we have something called “freedom of speech” - perhaps you’ve heard of it. Your complaints are a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. This is just one more “slime the liberals” thread.

sanger,
You claimed that the Democrats “treat these disasters as opportunities for political theater”, completely ignoring the FACT that THE FIRST PEOPLE TO COMPLAIN WERE THE VICTIMS OF HURRICANE KATRINA THEMSELVES. Are you claiming that the victims should be ignored because they’re just Bush bashers?

Ron Brown,
If someone were to start a thread in the Blue column entitled “When will the Conservatives stop being such liars?” you would (justifiably) get angry. If that post were followed by one entitled “Are Conservatives deliberately trying to destroy America, or are they just incredibly stupid?” you’d get angrier. If that thread were followed by “Do Conservatives really eat their own young?” you’d be furious. When those threads were followed by hundreds of other attacks that questioned your intelligence, your morals, your manhood, and your loyalty, you’d begin to understand how angry some liberals in this country are. And of course if you tried to refute those charges, you’d open yourself up to another attack: “Why are you conservatives filled with such hatred for all us innocent liberals?”

It’s very simple, really. Some liberals have stopped turning the other cheek and are responding in kind to the hatred and slander directed at them by the right.

Ron,
Get me a debate with Rush and I’ll show you just how wrong he is on all the topics and issues. As far as that goes put me in a debate with him and Dean and I’ll bet I can take both of them to the wood shed. Just based on the Ideology taught to every American about The Founding Fathers and the Righteousness found in Law.

Why are liberials always so full oh hate for anyone that disagrees with them?

I’ll answer it simply by saying that I could turn it around to Why are conservatives always so full of hate for anyone that disagrees with them? without increasing or reducing the relevance or accuracy.

You say something that we disagree with. We tell you that we disagree, and some use too much rhetoric. You interpret that rhetoric as hate (perhaps so you can cast us as irrational?).

I say something that you disagree with. Your group tells us that you disagree, and some use too much rhetoric. I interpret that rhetoric as hate (perhaps so I can cast you as irrational?).

Basically, you’re asking why people fight, and why you take our disagreement personally. How can I give you any more answer?

Read sanger’s comments or Eric’s comments again, trying to read them from our perspective. You’ll see that my rewrite is acceptable.

Fellow liberals, don’t bother taking Eric’s bait. His entire rhetorical approach seems to be taking a comment by a liberal or a Democrat, painting it as insanely evil as possible (even further than possible at times), and then implying that everyone on the Left is that evil.

He never actually defends his guys; he attacks us for criticizing them. He never acknowledges that there could be innocent or honorable explanations for what he derides. He never acknowledges that liberals are not a monothic block. He never acknowledges that some of his allies are just as guilty of some of the mistakes and crimes as some of his opponents.

This post is a bit more egregious than most, but it’s just Eric. Watchblog wouldn’t be the same without him.

“”Can you imagine how it would have been perceived if a president of the United States of one party had pre-emptively taken from the female governor of another party the command and control of her forces, unless the security situation made it completely clear that she was unable to effectively execute her command authority and that lawlessness was the inevitable result?” asked one senior administration official, who spoke anonymously because the talks were confidential.”

This from ERIC LIPTON, ERIC SCHMITT and THOM SHANKER At the N.Y. Times on Sept 8th.

Oh yes I can imagine especially when they were a day late and a dollar short by the time they got around to it. I am concerned right now with the Fed response. If I lived in LA I would be pretty heated about the city and state response. No actually this isn’t completely true I just can’t vote for those people. We actually have gotten pretty good in responding to hurricanes. I am still working on 3rd terror target and this was the response. Floods never occured to the Feds?
There has been alot of money spent. Do you know what we have in the hospitals here in case of terror attack? Plastic sheeting and a flashlight. We don’t even get tape to put up the sheeting. That cost what? 5 bucks x 18 floors. Hhomeland security is prepared. How, again?

tomd,

Did you ask the Democratic female governor of Louisiana where her NATIONAL GUARD troops were? She would have told you the fact that they watched the devastation of there state from the front lines of Iraq.

Refute that if you want but that is the truth. The National Guard troops mostly came from other states that she had no control over.

Believe it or not the Federal Government has a responsibility to its citizens in times of crisis.

I repeat, the Army Corp of Engineers which is Federal is responsible for the Levees that protect New Orleans.

Political bickering of these facts are disingenous at best.

Eric,

The comments of the Democrats reflect the opinion of the majority of Americans who are dissatisfied with Bush’s performance on this issue (and his overall job as president, as well). So apparently there is something lacking about Bush that you don’t need to be a “liberal” to perceive. Either that, or most Americans are liberals. I’d like to think so, but probably not…

Also, what tells you that Democrats are “ecstatic”? Have you seen Democrats back-slapping and high-fiving each other?

its about time someone tells it like it is lets not forget the mayor of NO could have put people on buses when the president declared an emergency but he decided to get him and his friends out instead

Mark-
When you tell somebody they’re sidestepping the facts, that they forget and conveniently ignore facts, and then ask them to please spare you the sham, You’re not speaking highly of a person’s honesty, or their straightfowardness, no matter how figurative you get in your language.

You’re telling an awful lot of people who are simply relating the truth that they are liars, people who can go back to sources (you in this case) and come up with evidence to back things up. This has been the maddening thing about dealing with Bush supporters for the past few years. Everything has been reduced to what benefits Bush’s image, and what hurts it, and if you say anything that hurts it, it doesn’t matter whether it’s true, it get’s denied or rationalized away.

Katrina was the chickens coming hom