Compassionate Conservatism Lives

In the first comment to my post last night, Ron Brown kindly wrote:

Good ideas, now if only the government would read them and then follow them.

Well, Ron, apparently they do.

Drudge linked to an article today by AP writer Devlin Barrett:

The federal government plans to begin doling out debit cards worth $2,000 each to adult victims of Hurricane Katrina, The Associated Press has learned.

Homeland Security Department Secretary Michael Chertoff descibed the plan in a conference call with state officials Wednesday morning. The unprecedented cash card program initially will benefit stranded people who have been moved to major rescue centers such as the Houston Astrodome...

The cards could be used to buy food, transportation, gas and other essentials the displaced people need, according to a state official who was on the call and requested anonymity because the program has not been publicly announced.

I feel much better.

Posted by Chops at September 7, 2005 1:25 PM
Comments
Comment #78771

Do ATM’s work underwater?

I remember when I was in elementary school there was this kid no one liked who brought a wad of dollar bills to school and handed them out with the request, “You’ll be my friend now, right?”

Posted by: Alejo at September 7, 2005 1:53 PM
Comment #78782

It just doesn’t really matter anymore Chops.
They start getting help in there and its too slow.
They start doing the quick fixes, to help people get by while they think of what to do and its pandering.
People have no clue as to what went wrong or why, but yet its Bush’s fault.
The cards would be a great beginning and more help will no doubt come, but for some reason, I bet we only hear about the cards that get rejected by the Bush ATM’s.

Posted by: kctim at September 7, 2005 2:31 PM
Comment #78783

New Orleans Times-Picayune:

“Mr. President…our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That’s to the government’s shame”…

Barbara Bush:

“So many of the people in the arena were underprivileged anyway, so this Is working very well for them”…

Chops, I offer these to you so you won’t have to spend so much time looking for other examples of compassionate conservatism.

Posted by: Mister Magoo at September 7, 2005 2:34 PM
Comment #78785

Chops, one more:

PITTSBURGH - U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said in a weekend interview that people who do not heed evacuation warnings in the future may need to be penalized.

Can you smell it, children? It’s the clean, godly scent of compassionate conservatism!

Posted by: Mister Magoo at September 7, 2005 2:42 PM
Comment #78787

The LA Times is reporting that many of the people in the Astrodome told Barbara that they were poor and that this was working great for them. She only repeated what she was told by the victims. But since it fits the liberal template to twist anything a Republican says to mean something mean-spirited, well, there ya go.

Compassionate liberalism would mean that the ATM cards would be used only at Planned Parenthood, to make donations to Moveon.org, or to buy Kanye West CD’s.

Posted by: Ron Haynes at September 7, 2005 2:47 PM
Comment #78788

What is it that makes some people want to give credit or blame to another person for events far too great to be any one person’s doing? Such radical oversimplification does nothing to further a greater understanding of current events.

15 years ago some people were saying that Ronald Reagan was himself responsible for the fall of the Berlin Wall. He was a tireless driving force, but the will of the German people was a really big factor there, as well as economic opportunities available in the West, technology, etc.

Now there are those who want to blame President Bush for Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath!! The wildest and most hubristic of all are those who beleive and try to prove that we as human beings are changing the ecology of the planet itself.

-Monica

Posted by: Monica at September 7, 2005 2:48 PM
Comment #78792

Compassionate conservatives say:

“people have to help themselves…The “victims” bear some of the responsibility for what happens to them….if you see at truck coming at you, it might be a good idea to step out of the way. Yes, this Republican has trouble understanding why people don’t do that. As for the infirm, I have trouble understanding why whoever usually helps them didn’t help them get out.” -Jack

“The welfare state—and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages—is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans.” -via DAVID

“I’m really disgusted by the knee-jerk partisanship around this issue. It meshes well with the street violence and selfishness among the victims: everybody’s looking out for #1, physically and politically.” -Chops

Posted by: William Cohen at September 7, 2005 3:00 PM
Comment #78793

PITTSBURGH - U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said in a weekend interview that people who do not heed evacuation warnings in the future may need to be penalized.

Can you smell it, children? It’s the clean, godly scent of compassionate conservatism!

________________

I don’t get it Magoo.
Tens of thousands didnt listen to evac warnings, many died and the left says its the govt’s fault, meaning Bush.
Now, a Sen suggests that, due to the deaths and hardships of those choosing to ignore the evac warnings, that maybe a penalty for ignoring future evac warnings should be thought about. That would in turn, make more people heed the warnings and hopefully, less people would die.
I’m not really sure how less dead people would be a bad thing. Unless your talking about violating an individuals right of choice.

Posted by: kctim at September 7, 2005 3:02 PM
Comment #78794

This sounds like a pretty good idea at first glance and the Bush folks deserve credit for it if it works out well. It looks like a pretty innovative way of help people, which is a bit surprising coming from folks not exactly known for their creativity or generosity. Way to think outside the box!

Posted by: Reed Sanders at September 7, 2005 3:09 PM
Comment #78803

This is amazing.

The Bush administration gives $2,000 each to a whole bunch of needy people, and the reaction is “Bush is bad”.

The intellectual immaturity is staggering.

Posted by: Chops at September 7, 2005 3:43 PM
Comment #78810

I don’t think that people are saying “Bush is bad for giving them 2k”. I think people are saying that the response has been anything but compassionate (see Barbara “Maria Antionette” Bush’s statement, or bush guitar pic, or “Gee Trent Lott’s house will ROCK!” for example).

To me I actually think that the Bush admin is doing everything it can to right it. However, that does not take away from the initial failures and a lot of people (like myself) feel that this is now more a “oh-crap-lets-save-face-tactic” than actual help. If this was the plan where was it a week ago? Well, either way, even if it is a save face tactic I don’t really care, whatever gets people help.

Posted by: chantico at September 7, 2005 4:04 PM
Comment #78815

Chops,

“The Bush administration gives $2,000 each to a whole bunch of needy people, and the reaction is “Bush is bad”.”

I did not see any posts that said the act of giving monetary relief was bad.
Your imagination is staggering.

I’m sure the people who lost their loved ones curb-side, via the failure of U.S. and Louisiana government officials, will appreciate the coin.
As we’ve read today these folks are having the time of their lives.(Ask Barbera Bush)
And you folks called Kerry an elitist.

Hey what the heck, these are after all just poor blacks and white trash. They never had a credit card before.Day be so lucky sir. Havin dem nice white folk givin dem does credit cards.

Chops, as a person of color, I am shocked at the lack of understanding that comes from people like you. You think because these people are poor that all they care about is a $2,000 credit card. That makes the pain go away. I know some white people think that they know how us savages think but did you ever stop to think how much money would it take to replace your parents, children, friends, a brother or sister?
How could anyone celebrate the fact that the U.S. government thinks poor whites and people of color are worth $2,000.
If my wife and child would have parished in New Orleans, they’d be worth $1,000 dollars a piece.
Cha-ching!
Conservative Compassion, keep it.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at September 7, 2005 4:30 PM
Comment #78817

Chops,

Compassionate Conservatism?

In the words of Robin Williams;

“Compassionate Conservatism? Isn’t that like a Volvo with a gun rack?”

Posted by: Rocky at September 7, 2005 4:35 PM
Comment #78818

Chops said: The Bush administration gives $2,000 each to a whole bunch of needy people, and the reaction is “Bush is bad”.

Nobody here said anything like that. I’d call that intellectual dishonesty.

Posted by: ElliottBay at September 7, 2005 4:36 PM
Comment #78821

Just how far can $2,000 take a family of 4 anyway? Considering that the Republicans enacted the Bankruptcy Bill which will prevent all the survivors from wiping their slate clean, I imagine the money will be for Interest payments for their non-existent house.

Posted by: Aldous at September 7, 2005 4:46 PM
Comment #78823

“How could anyone celebrate the fact that the U.S. government thinks poor whites and people of color are worth $2,000”

And there you have it Chops. The very beginning of helping people and now we are hearing that the evil Bush thinks people are only worth 2 grand.

Is the left just covering ALL their bases with these race-baiting lies or are you just using them as filler until the facts come in and you are able to skew them.

Posted by: kctim at September 7, 2005 4:52 PM
Comment #78827
Just how far can $2,000 take a family of 4 anyway? Considering that the Republicans enacted the Bankruptcy Bill which will prevent all the survivors from wiping their slate clean, I imagine the money will be for Interest payments for their non-existent house.

Isn’t this 2 grand each?
Family of 4 =8 grand.
Yah. If you are over your head in payments. But then what about the guy in Chicago or Pittsburgh who is over his head.

Posted by: George at September 7, 2005 4:58 PM
Comment #78828

The real question is, what’s the big deal? This is what a government is supposed to do for people in a disaster. Hopefully these cards will prove effective in allowing people to purchase food and clothing. Other than that, though, we have a million other headaches still there to deal with. It’s not something to throw a party about.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 7, 2005 5:00 PM
Comment #78832

It’s 2000 per household only if they prove they were displaced or evacuated. Many people did not have ability to evacuate or homes to evacuate. Others did not have the will to leave their homes behind. It’s possible they didn’t trust the gov to provide the basics for them in the evacuation sites.

Posted by: Shawn at September 7, 2005 5:12 PM
Comment #78839

I concur. Stop patting him on the back for doing something now when he should have got off his Texas butt a few days earlier, put his ear to the ground and found out a little bit of what was happening down there. There’s no excusing the way he didn’t respond to this crisis, not for any fair-minded conservative, never mind the liberals. And there’s no excuse for his team to have let him down like this, either with botched information, inability to take the bull by the horns, inability to cut through the red tape. I mean c’mon, guys, you had to know fairly early on that this wasn’t gonna be a garden-variety hurricane. Mr. President, you and your team have let the people who elected down.

Posted by: Leon at September 7, 2005 5:42 PM
Comment #78844

kctim,

“And there you have it Chops. The very beginning of helping people and now we are hearing that the evil Bush thinks people are only worth 2 grand.”

“Is the left just covering ALL their bases with these race-baiting lies or are you just using them as filler until the facts come in and you are able to skew them.”


1)I did not bash Bush.
2)Either you missed the point of the post or you did not read it.
3)$2,000 is a slap in the face. It is not help.
4)It’s easy for you to see the offering of money to thousands of people who were forsaken for almost a week by their LOCAL, STATE and FEDERAL governments as a kind gesture, you were not seeing the events through a person of colors eyes.
5)They deserve an apology.
6)You folks are acting like he’s giving $2,000 to each survivor out of his own pocket.
7)I don’t throw racism around to prove a point.I don’t need to.You saw what I saw on T.V. you just choose to interpret it in a way that works for you.
It’s amazing that after all this time you still use words like “Left.”to avoid any fact based debate. It’s easier to attack and call names.
When you figure out how to get your point across without resorting to the childish and quite frankly, unproductive tactics you employ now, I would be glad to further discuss any issue with you. Making accusations and calling people liberals and left and accusing me of being a liar, tells me it’s a waste of time.
People have opinions that differ from yours, and you know what? It’s OK

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at September 7, 2005 6:06 PM
Comment #78849

kctim:

I don’t get it Magoo. Tens of thousands didnt listen to evac warnings, many died and the left says its the govt’s fault, meaning Bush. Now, a Sen suggests that, due to the deaths and hardships of those choosing to ignore the evac warnings, that maybe a penalty for ignoring future evac warnings should be thought about. That would in turn, make more people heed the warnings and hopefully, less people would die.

kctim, The vast majority had no where to go and no way to get there. I am not blaming President Bush, or the republicans, but to blame the victims is just utterly incomprehensible to me.

sassyliberal

Posted by: sassyliberal at September 7, 2005 6:24 PM
Comment #78850

There is hope for Republicans when they start acting like socialists and Democrats handing out everybody’s tax dollars to those who need it due to circumstances beyond their control like old age, medical dibilitation, mental handicaps, unemployed without new age skills, and yes, hurricane victims.

Damn shame it takes the world spotlight on them and the victims of not only a hurricane but a class segregation America would prefer wasn’t on prime time TV around the globe generating headlines about abject minority poverty in America, to get them to open their hearts and government wallets to help the unfortunate in America.

Socialists all, now that their compassion is in the spotlight. Wait till the spotlights are shut off. Will they go back to turning a blind eye to poverty in America, rising every year for the last four years? Who knows, these Republicans might actually come to enjoy the role of acting compassionately in the halls of government. Be good reason for them don their white hats again.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 7, 2005 6:25 PM
Comment #78862

kctim-

Is the left just covering ALL their bases with these race-baiting lies or are you just using them as filler until the facts come in and you are able to skew them.

This is intellectual dishonesty of the worst kind. You took the words of ONE person, and tried to use them to villify the left in general. What you said was inflammatory, spiteful, untrue, and violates the “critique the message, not the messenger” spirit of this blog.

Posted by: ElliottBay at September 7, 2005 6:49 PM
Comment #78883

Well this has been interesting.
First I woud like to say the two extremes are truly funny. Bush can do no wrong and Bush can do no right. Did the people in NO have any responsibility to save themselves. Well yes dear they did. Most emergency advice from the govt, red cross, survival groups say you need at least three days of supplies to survive a crisis. Many more than the poor were stuck in NO. A minister from Spain and her family, tourists, etc. This situation was not a if but a when, similiar to the earthquake that will happen in CA. So now we will call them victims, take away their responsibility and shift it to the govt. This shifting blame is one reason that we are in this mess. Believing it won’t occur here is a poor mentality and who is responsible for my thoughts and actions. uhmmm I guess it is me. So If I don’t move away from that truck that is coming at me who’s fault is it. Must be the govt that give money to automakers to make trucks. Personal responsibility - go back if you can and look again at the new clips and see how many people actually carried water and food into the superdome. They fully expected the govt to have everything they needed despite the fact that food and water were requested. I have been poor as a church mouse - drew water from a well, had an outhouse etc etc. I got myself out of that position. Not the govt - ME. HOWEVER, we have told people all their lives that the govt will be there for them and we failed. From the Mayor to the Federal level. DO we hold them rsponsible for this yes we do. Bush wanted and got a job. As a manager he accepted responsibility for those under him. He needed to find the right person for the right position. If someone in a business messes up, the fallout comes down not only on him but the manager rsponsible for him, how does anyone think that Bush is not responsible for those he hired?
Now for Mrs Bush’s comment’s I realy don’t care. She has the right to say what she wants I don’t remember electing her for anything.
A 2K debit card. Well folks that will pay a deposit, rent, get your utilities on and have money left over. Depending on where you live 2K is enough. It could be better but it is enough to get started.
There needs to be an independant commission if that is possible which I doubt to figure out this mess and when the next crisis happens, hopefully we will do better. We can’t do much worse than what we have done now.
Nobody is going to get the Bush supportors to say anything different, They have too much face to lose if they admit he screwed up and the Anti Bush will never accept he has done anything right for the same reason.

Posted by: C.L.O. at September 7, 2005 8:22 PM
Comment #78888

Chops,
If President Bush and The Republican Party would do what is known to be Unalienable Right Regardless just by the Law of the Land that governs a Corporation’s Right to make as much profit as possible for their Stockholders than these Americans that you want to give $2,000.00 to would already be Economically Viable Customers. Compassion it is not; however, as our Liberal Institutes of Learning teaches our MBA Gards it is called APPEASEMENT!

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 7, 2005 9:00 PM
Comment #78891

There is a divide on how we think we should deal with poverty.

Liberals think that we should treat the poor like children who can’t take care of themselves. They list the reasons why the poor can’t be expected to make good decisions.

The best thing to happen for the poor was welfare reform that gave them a chance AND the responsibility to take it.

Actually I don’t care about “the poor”. I care about individuals who need help. The two are very different concepts.

Re responsibly let me relate a story. You can fill it the story depending on your political bent

A flood is on the way.

A preacher/poor guy is waiting for help. A boat comes by and the person says, “you better leave. The water is rising.” The preacher/poor guy relies, “No I have faith in the Lord/the government. That will save me.”

The water is higher. A second boat comes by. The guy says, “you really better leave. The water is still rising and will cover this place,” The preacher/poor guy relies, “No I have faith in the Lord/the government. That will save me.”

The water is still higher. A third boat comes. The guy says, “This is your last chance. You have to leave. This is your last chance.” The preacher/poor guy relies, “No I have faith in the Lord/the government. That will save me.”

Finally the water is so high, the preacher/poor guy knows it is the end. The angrily shakes his fist and says to the Lord/the government, “I had faith in you and you betrayed me.” The reply was, “I send three boats, why didn’t you get in one of them?”

Posted by: jack at September 7, 2005 9:09 PM
Comment #78894

Jack,
Good idea if a flood was coming, but consider the fact that “The Poor” in America begins at approx. $50,000.00/yr (Family of Four) in America a boat will not due. No the only way out of Poverty is learning how and why to save over the long haul. While investing in The Market is a good idea if a person is already Economically Viable/Financailly Independent and taught in the Art of Investing. The simple fact remains that about 95% of Americans do not even today know why the price of eggs in China has anything to do with them.

Invest in “I the Corporation” which can promise you everything and in 39 years 11 months 29 Days and 23 hours declare Bankruptcy or Invest in “We the People” which will increase the value of your dollar and will still be around a 100 years from now for your Grandchildren. The reason for Black Monday and the Fall of The Market in 98& 01 was that most Citizens who play the Market do not know what they are doing. Did you know that in September of 2001 the Dow had about 2500 Points in Margin Calls? The fact that it is designed to operate at a high of 1500 Points should of sent up flares to those invested. So, Who are you going to Trust if you can’t afford to lose money?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 7, 2005 9:49 PM
Comment #78901

Henry

So you think 50,000 a year is poor? Maybe in New York or San Francisco. But in most of the U.S. if you can’t take care of your family with $50,000, you have more problems than lack of money. And the very idea that this kind of person is poor shows how far we have come.

Posted by: jack at September 7, 2005 10:17 PM
Comment #78904

Jack,

I’m growing tired of your stories and analogies that don’t relate to reality in any way.

Show me evidence that the people stuck in New Orleans had multiple opportunities to leave and turned them down.

Posted by: Burt at September 7, 2005 10:36 PM
Comment #78905

Jack,
Check your Local & State Records. Low-Income begins at 80% of the Medium(sp)Income. In fact, Our Economy & HUD Guidelines as well as Banks is designed to operate with a person spending 30% of their Income to cover their housing cost and utilities. Considering the average home runs at $150,000.00 or between $8-$1,000/month do the math.

The problem of poverty is not a person’s abilty to work for low wages, it is the fact that low wages are paid for those jobs that make our society function and places the burden of taxes directly on the Consumers that use these businesses everyday. Want to try a good experiment? Try to live a month without using a single item or service that pays below a livable wage (Approx. $15.00/hr). Think it can be done?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 7, 2005 10:40 PM
Comment #78907

Burt

Show some evidence that they didn’t. People in hospitals or nursing homes, i understand. And nobody has a car? There were plenty of able bodied guys hanging around New Orleans. You can walk to higher ground and the able bodied could help their less fortunate friends and relatives.

The muniple authorities really screwed up and the mayor should have used the buses he had at his disposal. That’s true. But people - even poor people - seem to be able to find money for a variety of other things.

Posted by: jack at September 7, 2005 10:54 PM
Comment #78925

Jack,

The muniple authorities really screwed up and the mayor should have used the buses he had at his disposal.

I’m not 100% sure but AFAIK:
- most of buses drivers were already far away from NO (why?)
- buses were parked under sea level (bad idea). Well, as most New Orleans is (bad idea).
- buses were under water not due to Hurricane itself but broken levees.

Or do you mean the mayor should have driven all these buses himself while keeping his breath under water???


Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at September 8, 2005 4:55 AM
Comment #78936

Yes compassionate conservatism lives on the crumpled bits of paper that litter the water drenched streets of a dying city. How compassionate is is to cut programs for the poor while lining the pockets of the rich? How compassionate is it cut taxes while the city of New Orleans pleaded to have it levy systems and surrounding wetland reconstituted in order to prevent what happed last weekend?

Give it Chops, the Republican have blown it, the leadership in Washington is inept and nauseatingly arrogant, and eternally stupid. If the American people don’t turn them out in the next election we deserve whatever befalls us next!

Posted by: V. Edward Martin at September 8, 2005 9:16 AM
Comment #78937

Andre said:

How could anyone celebrate the fact that the U.S. government thinks poor whites and people of color are worth $2,000.

I was not aware that the government was buying these people. As far as I know, they’re trying to help them get by for the next few weeks.

My original point in this post was that this particular program is a good example of a way to help people without being socialist about it. A socialist would say, “Wow, these people are in need, let’s give them food, clothing, shelter, etc.” The conservative says, “Wow, these people are in need. Let’s let them decide what they need and deliver it to them in the most efficient way possible.”

Another program I heard about that’s worth at least a good laugh is that the administration is giving out all the faux-name brand clothes seized at customs. So if you see someone in fake Calvin Kleins… tell them you sympathize with their loss.

Posted by: Chops at September 8, 2005 9:29 AM
Comment #78940

Sassyliberal
“The vast majority had no where to go and no way to get there”

I agree. It would be wrong to place blame on those who could not physically move on their own.
And blaming Reps or Bush is fine when we have the facts.
I don’t wish to blame anybody at this point, we just don’t know all that happened yet.

Elliott
“This is intellectual dishonesty of the worst kind. You took the words of ONE person, and tried to use them to villify the left in general. What you said was inflammatory, spiteful, untrue, and violates the “critique the message, not the messenger” spirit of this blog.”

Disregarding facts, changing them to suit your needs or whatever, is a tactic of BOTH parties and everybody knows they do it.
Race-baiting happens all the time when people are desperate and to state that it appears to me as if it is going on, is my opinion.
Those may have been the words of ONE person but the race card is one the left plays at every opportunity and it has become tiresome. It is 2005 not the early to mid 1900’s.
Race really doesnt matter to most of us anymore. We don’t care if your white, black, red or yellow, we view each other as people. The only people who seem to care about race are the ignorant or the ones who wish to use race for political reasons. Both are wrong.
I really do not care if some feel my opinions are inflammatory or spiteful.
If you can prove them untrue then I am wrong and will admit it.
I also believe I did critique the message of racism I believe Andre was trying to point out.

Posted by: kctim at September 8, 2005 9:40 AM
Comment #78960

Philippe

The buses were underwater after the levee breach, which occurred the day after the hurricane passed. The buses should have been used before that time, since the evacuation was to take place before the hurricane. There are lots of mistakes and even without mistakes this would be a costly storm in terms of money and suffering. But had the city been evacuated using the reasonable means at the disposal of the New Orleans municipal authorities, most of this human catastrophe would have been avoided – as it was in other parts of Louisiana and Mississippi that were also hard hit.

Posted by: jack at September 8, 2005 11:11 AM
Comment #78966

Henry,

What do you consider the necessities that a living wage covers? I’ve lived quite comfortably on far less than that (about $9/hour) for well over a year. And a bit less comfortable on between $400 and $600 a month. Granted, I currently make what you consider a “living wage” and the only thing extra that allows me to afford is to save a about $800 a month and a cell phone. (difference between $9/hour and $14/hour)

Posted by: SirisC at September 8, 2005 11:16 AM
Comment #78967

And do recall the Internet statement from Al-Qaida in Iraq Organization of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi: “God has struck America, and the prayers of wronged people have been answered”.

We should remeber the kinds of guys these are next time we try to reason with them.

Posted by: jack at September 8, 2005 11:24 AM
Comment #78972

jack,

Unfortunately, I’ve already heard a similar sentiment from a small number of Christians who consider New Orleans to be a city full of sin. (people who I know personally and had thought to be reasonable)

Posted by: SirisC at September 8, 2005 11:39 AM
Comment #78974

The $2,000 ATM cards are the Hurricane Katrina equivilent of civil defense’s “duck and cover” — they make you feel safe — for a little while.

The fact is that a $2,000 outlay isn’t really going to help people find jobs that pay wages above poverty, permanent homes that they own.

We need to stop says “we’re going to help get these people back on their feet.” Many of them were not on their feet before the hurricane hit. I’m sick of hearing the Bush adminstration say it’s helping the poor. It took a horrible hurricane — 5 years after Bush becomes president — for him to realize there are poor people in the United States.

Posted by: steve at September 8, 2005 11:52 AM
Comment #78977

And do recall the Internet statement from Al-Qaida in Iraq Organization of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi: ?God has struck America, and the prayers of wronged people have been answered?.

Anyone hear anything from Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell about this? You know — Hurricane Katrina flooded a city known for decadence and destroyed another full of casinos.

Posted by: bobo at September 8, 2005 11:56 AM
Comment #78982
Burt, Show some evidence that they didn’t.

Jack, I’m not going to get into a third grade back-and-forth with you. I can’t prove a negative. You yourself admit that the city’s buses weren’t utilized.

People in hospitals or nursing homes, i understand. And nobody has a car?

Yes, it really must be too much for you to believe that some people can’t afford a car.

I ask you again. Show me why you believe that the people stuck in New Orleans had multiple opportunities to leave the city but turned them down. Otherwise, your homespun analogy is trash, but we knew that already.

Posted by: Burt at September 8, 2005 12:10 PM
Comment #78984
And do recall the Internet statement from Al-Qaida in Iraq Organization of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi: “God has struck America, and the prayers of wronged people have been answered”.

We should remeber the kinds of guys these are next time we try to reason with them.

Jack, why don’t you and your fellow Republicans ask President Bush to kill the leaders of Al Qaeda instead of reasoning with them. Does Bush even remember what Al Qaeda is?

Why is the Republican party so weak on terrorism? Are they too cowardly or merely just too stupid to do the job?

Posted by: Burt at September 8, 2005 12:14 PM
Comment #78986

SirisC,
A Liveable Wage means that you have he ability to pay for your own Disability/Health/Life Insurance, House, Car (necessary in the 21st Century), Utilities, and a whole list of things that Society says we need so that no entitlements or assistance needs to be given by our Society.

Even at $14.00/hr and Single did you know that according to Government Standards you are considered Low-Income? Check your State Housing Plan to find the exact amount that will put you over the 80% of Medium Income. However on the bright side, you are eligable for Local, State and Federal Assistance in the purchase of a Home, Schooling, and a host of other things which Our Taxes pay for.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 8, 2005 12:19 PM
Comment #78993

Chops, thank you for posting an article showing that the Republican Party does actually do some good sometimes. For whatever reason, it’s extremely rare to see an article like this over here.

Liberals think that we should treat the poor like children who can?t take care of themselves. They list the reasons why the poor can?t be expected to make good decisions.

Jack, that’s pure BS.

The best thing to happen for the poor was welfare reform that gave them a chance AND the responsibility to take it.

Hey! Now you’re talking about President Clinton and a whole bunch of Congressional Democrats who crafted that welfare reform. I can totally get behind this statement.

Posted by: American Pundit at September 8, 2005 12:43 PM
Comment #78998

kctim,

Disregarding facts, changing them to suit your needs or whatever, is a tactic of BOTH parties and everybody knows they do it.

So your excuse is that everybody does it?? C’mon, man, I stopped letting my son use a lame excuse like that when he was five years old.


Posted by: ElliottBay at September 8, 2005 12:54 PM
Comment #79009

jack said: “The buses were underwater after the levee breach, which occurred the day after the hurricane passed. The buses should have been used before that time, since the evacuation was to take place before the hurricane.”

jack, it is taking days now, perhaps a week, with many thousands of national guard to go house to house to evacuate folks at this very moment. So, I ask you, where was the manpower to come from to carry out this mandatory evacuation prior to the hurricane hitting? And if it was to take a week or more, the justifying cause for doing so was not evident until just 2 to 3 days before landfall. Prior to that time the storm could just as easily headed to the Texas coast. Its path was not known until 24 hours after it cleared Florida.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 8, 2005 1:28 PM
Comment #79010
We need to stop says “we’re going to help get these people back on their feet.” Many of them were not on their feet before the hurricane hit.

Steve, If that’s the case and they already were that poor (jobless, homeless, going hungry, etc) then maybe the change of scenery and a debit card with $2000 could be a great way for them to make a new start. No longer stuck in the same rut, in the same impoverished, crime ridden town they may be able to use that $2000 to start over and see if they can climb out of that “poor” state they were in. (I believe that is what Barbara Bush was getting at with her comments which IMO have been taken way out of context)

It will be interesting to see how many choose that option and how many go right back to their old ways.

Posted by: BradM at September 8, 2005 1:31 PM
Comment #79011
jack, it is taking days now, perhaps a week, with many thousands of national guard to go house to house to evacuate folks at this very moment.

If the Mayor had already planned and released (using add campains) a contingency plan for the total evacuation of NO so that folks in new what to expect and what was expected of them. Then during his pree conference he stated that the plan was being enacted then it could have saved a lot of lives. After all busses going down streets are a lot more effective at moving people than boats wading through devistation and banging on roofs…

It’s easy to blame people for not REacting quicker (and in many cases it is warrented), but bottom line is if the local/state governments had been a little more PROactive before it happened, a lot of lives could have been saved.

Posted by: BradM at September 8, 2005 1:40 PM
Comment #79022

BradM, that is a reasonable argument, and I have no doubt, government leaders in these states have a lot of self doubt about their own actions. More lives could have been saved. It will be interesting to find out, when investigations were conducted, what activities were consuming the governor’s and mayor’s time in the 36 hours preceding landfall when the threat was growing and becoming more certain.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 8, 2005 2:17 PM
Comment #79023

David, I will be interested to see that as well…

And BTW, thank you for understanding one of the most poorly constructed paragraphs I have ever written! Geez! Guess I should have proof read that one.

Posted by: BradM at September 8, 2005 2:21 PM
Comment #79092

kctim,
The cards would be a great beginning and more help will no doubt come, but for some reason, I bet we only hear about the cards that get rejected by the Bush ATM’s.

Yeah, and they’ll most likely be rejected because they’re out of money.

Chops,
This is amazing.

The Bush administration gives $2,000 each to a whole bunch of needy people, and the reaction is “Bush is bad”.


Sure it’s Bad Bush. He should be giving them $200,000 each. But hten it would still be Bad Bush, how dare he run up the defict.


Andre M. Hernandez,
3)$2,000 is a slap in the face. It is not help.

And how much would be help in your opinion? If Bush were to give them each a million you most likely would say it aint enough.

6)You folks are acting like he’s giving $2,000 to each survivor out of his own pocket.

$2000 isn’t enough but now it’s just awful that the money’s coming from the government?


Steve,
The fact is that a $2,000 outlay isn’t really going to help people find jobs that pay wages above poverty, permanent homes that they own.

No one said it was supposed too did they? It’s supposed to help them buy some of the things they need.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 8, 2005 6:31 PM
Comment #79108

CNN reports a change:

After 1 day, FEMA curbs its debit card program.

It seems like a good step forward, at any rate. The Red Cross is still giving out debit cards, in case you’re wondering.

Still, though it is a good step, it is a small step, and a step a long time coming. Perhaps it’s cynical of me, but I see this as much or more of a political move as anything. Compassionate? Maybe. But I wished they had this sense of “compassionate conservatism” back when this disaster was beginning, when it was needed most. I saw no compassion there: just indifference.

Posted by: Guin at September 8, 2005 7:57 PM
Comment #79272

kctim,

“Race really doesnt matter to most of us anymore. We don’t care if your white, black, red or yellow, we view each other as people.”

So view the victims who could not get out of New Orleans as people.
I’ll pretend that I didn’t see that 95% were poor and black.

“The only people who seem to care about race are the ignorant or the ones who wish to use race for political reasons.”

So what am I ignorant about? I’m a teacher not a politician so I must be saying that the government has failed the poor and people of color in New Orleans because of my ignorance.
You really believe racism does not exist in the United States?
Wow! I’m ignorant?
40 years has cleansed most of the hearts and minds of the citizens of the U.S. I did not know that.
Where do you live?

Look at the timeline that was laid out on MSNBC Wednesday night. Look at the comments from the head of FEMA and Barbera Bush. Either the Local, State and Federal government are the most incompetent leaders in the world or they didn’t care about those left behind because of their financial status and or color? Maybe they were unimportant for other reasons, feel free to come up with alternatives.
Do you recall anyone playing the “race card” during 9/11?
If you see this as something different than I do feel free to point this out, but don’t call me ignorant.
I’m alot of things, but not ignorant.


Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at September 9, 2005 9:15 AM
Comment #79280

Ok, Republicans your President just signed into Law the ability for Corporations such as Haliburton to pay our citizens less than the provailing wage. Now, how is your party going top justify these political screw up?

Lets put people to work for lower wagers which will make them poorer and more dependent on our tas dollars while the Corporation is given welfare so that they will not lose money. If Americans would have the courage today, they would flat out refuse to work under these conditions.

Talk about Compassion. These folks have lost everything and our President and the Republican Leadership of Congress is thinking that they are doing America a service by lowering wages. Damm, lets just hire them for a nickel an hour so that those who own the Million Dollar Homes can have their Castles rebuilt.

By the way, in lowering the wages President Bush just screwed the Small Business Owners in the Country. Less money in pocket means less purchase of goods which leads to lost of jobs which means to lost of profit which means that Stockholders lose money. Good Job, screw The Entire Nation and call it Compassion. Now spin this fact!

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 9, 2005 10:12 AM
Comment #79303

I have an idea. What about getting rid of the 13 million illegal imigrants/aliens currently living among us, most of whom are holding jobs, except the children…oops, maybe the children are as well, and, provide jobs to the displaced and unemployed citizens of New Orleans.

We have assumed in the numbers that have been quoted that they are all citizens although IMO, we could find a few who are not. We have also assumed that all of them have lost jobs when nothing could be further from the truth.

For a measureable quantity of those folks it’s simply a matter of changing the address on the welfare benefit and/or unemployment check.

Posted by: steve smith at September 9, 2005 11:35 AM
Comment #79304

Soprry for the back to back posts.

I saw on a newscast last night that the horrible human being Pat Robertson is in the spotlight again.

Next to the Red Cross, Pat’s group is the 2nd largest donator/contributor of money and relief items to the disaster area.

Posted by: steve smith at September 9, 2005 11:39 AM
Comment #79310

Henry

I assume you are talking about the President’s suspension of the Davis-Bacon Act, that 1930s relic designed to prevent cheap Southern Black labor from competing with organized whites - the one that requires any federal construction project to pay so-called “prevailing wages”. That in fact allows unionized construction firms to set their own price and is estimated to raises the cost of federal projects from 25% to 33%.

Posted by: Jack at September 9, 2005 12:32 PM
Comment #79314

Jack,
Thanks for quoting the Act. However, our President (and the Rest of America) is at war with a group of citizens who want to argue over governsment who are oppressive toward their citizens. By President Bush signing into Law any Bill that allows our Societal Tools to pay “The Poor” less money gives our enemy loaded amunition. Thus, a reasonable and logical person can conclude that America is just like the other Tyranny Governments of The World.

While I understand that the President sighed the Bill so that it would lower the cost of Federal Contracts, the fact still remains that “We the People” will pay over and over again for not giving these citizens (Labor) the funds necessary to be self-sufficent. By lowering the spending capital of each Consumer even Wal-Mart will fill the impact of his actions.

Therefore, would it not make “Common Sense” to raise the wages in the area and allow the residents to work for the money that they are going to need to replace Everything that was lost. Shot suspending the Payroll Taxes or at least part of them in exchange for the higher wages would make better sense than allowing corporations to pay “The Working Poor” less for a honest day’s Work.

No, President Bush did America a diservice today by allowing Osama Ben Laden and others to once again point out how inhuman(sp) our society has become.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 9, 2005 12:54 PM
Comment #79331

The President is not proposing that anyone get paid less than minimum or even less than the local market wages. It depends on what you call a prevailing wage. Davis-Bacon defines prevailing wage as whatever the local union says it is. That rarely reflect the real going rates. And what happens to the poor? You may be willing to employ two unskilled guys if you pay them $10 each. But if you have to pay $20, you are more likely either to avoid the task entirely or bring in a big machine to replace both guys.

Re prevailing wage –

A guy catches a cab. As he leaves, he asks the cabdriver what is a “normal tip”. The cab driver says - $10 and that is what he gets. The guy says, “You must make a pile of money with tips like that”. The cabdriver replies, “Nah, that is the first ‘normal’ tip I have gotten for weeks”.

Posted by: jack at September 9, 2005 1:36 PM
Comment #79343
The President is not proposing that anyone get paid less than minimum or even less than the local market wages.

Really Jack? I didn’t see where President Bush made that clear. How do you know this?

Posted by: American Pundit at September 9, 2005 2:03 PM
Comment #79344

Jack,
Look at the Big Picture, by paying two guys $10/hr you get twice as much work and that is a good thing for the Corporation. However, the $10 that both worker recieves will only go to cover the basics (food & shelter). By paying the worker $20/hr, not only will he be able to cover The Basics, but with the extra money in his pocket the worker will naturally create more jobs in the community and around the world. Thus forcing the Economy to grow.

Why, becuase while $10/hr covers the basics, the $20/hr allows the worker to buy TV’s, Refrigerators, Homes, etc. and hopefully allow him to invest a small portion into The Market. Thus, while more money may be spent on the first project and it may take twice as long to build. The Corporation that pays the worker will get more contracts from other Corporations as they are forced to build more to handle suppling “We the People” with our Wants & Needs.

Even the Government makes out by the increase in Tax Revenue so why lower the wage of Workers that will slow down the economy and lower the ability of all corporations to make a profit for their stockholder and place more of a demand on our government that will lead to the natural increase in taxes? Completed I know but check out our history. Mr. Ford & Mr. Hershey are but a few Americans that recognized the economic advantages of given people (i.e. Consumers) the ability to purchase more than those citizens who want to keep “The Poor” oppressed.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 9, 2005 2:04 PM
Comment #79346

BTW Jack,
Using the Presidents logic, the first Corporation only gets one job so how is that suppose to help them make more money for their Stockholders? I guess they could create another Natural Disaster of Epic proportions.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 9, 2005 2:08 PM
Comment #79352

Monica,

Wonderful post! I couldn’t agree with you more when you said,

“What is it that makes some people want to give credit or blame to another person for events far too great to be any one person’s doing? Such radical oversimplification does nothing to further a greater understanding of current events”

That should be the motto of our nation. You are completely right. What good does it do to pass the blame from one to another? What will come of that? Probably arguments between Democrats and Republicans until the next time it happens. Then everyone will wonder…why did this happen again? It is because after the time of crisis people start to point the finger. Instead of sticking together to find solutions people come unglued. That attitude doesn’t birth solutions it creates a cloud around answers.

Posted by: Nathan at September 9, 2005 2:21 PM
Comment #79358

AP

Because the suspension of Davis-Bacon does nothing to reduce the minimum wage and the market wage that prevails will continue to prevail.

Henry

Some people don’t produce $20 worth of value – at least not at first. Think about who and what competes with each worker. The most obvious competition is other workers, but we also have to consider automation, changed work practices and just not doing the job.

The Davis-Bacon act was not designed to help workers. It was meant as a way to protect established contracting firms by limiting competition and let them get their share of the Federal dollar.

One more thing – it is not the wages that are generally the problem; it is the union based organization and its cumbersome rules. The worker may well be worth $20, but the only place to get such a worker if from the established unionized firm.

Some forest workers I know set off for the Gulf region to do salvage cutting. Their work is seasonal and they have significant investments in the equipment they own, which is not currently being used. They are willing to work because not only can they work, but they can also help defray the carrying costs of their equipment. Presumably there will be enough work to go around, since the local boys will have their hands full already. They will be able to do the job, but not right away. When our Virginians get to Mississippi or Louisiana, they will not be “established” so they will not be able to compete if rules are strict, but unlike the established local firms, they will probably be able to do the job in a timely fashion. They will contribute to the reconstruction and they will make a lot more money than they would have sitting at home watching the disaster on television.

Posted by: jack at September 9, 2005 2:33 PM
Comment #79364

Jack,
Believe it or not, I’ll go one further. Some People do not deserve to get paid Minimum Wage because they do not work hard enough to warrent such pay from a Consumers pint of view. How many times have you walked into a Walmart and asked a Worker where something is only to be told “I don’t know” and left to find the item on your own. However, that problem is Management. If the person could not do the job in a competent manner in the first place than why hire them?

As far as your Virginians going down in search of work, this is America and the opportunity to make a dollar (legally) has been made by the Beast of Nature “I the Consumer.” While the Rules & Regulations of protectionism needs to be removed, the pay scale of The Workers do not. Because why should a company be allowed to come in your backyard and undercut all of your local bids so that they add to your local and state tax burden.

Foresight is always better than Hindsight and if you allow an outside company to come in and distroy your local economy by paying your citizens less and causing your local business than what is our elected officails when the outside company leaves and they have no way to raise the taxes required to maintain what was built?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 9, 2005 2:57 PM
Comment #79372

Andre
“So what am I ignorant about?”
- Any person who uses race, gender etc… before they know what happened or what somebody did, is ignorant to me.

“I’m a teacher not a politician so I must be saying that the government has failed the poor and people of color in New Orleans because of my ignorance.”
- I would say because of your political bias. You do not take into account who made up the affected communities. If 80% of the community is poor, your naturally going to have a larger number of dead people from that group.
Instead, we hear how Bush and Republicans hate the poor and are racists.

“You really believe racism does not exist in the United States?”
- Of course it does. There are plenty David Dukes and Jesse Jacksons types out there.
I just believe, in our times, the majority of Americans see past color and the ones who refuse to are doing so for monetary or political gain.

“40 years has cleansed most of the hearts and minds of the citizens of the U.S. I did not know that.”
- I think its alot better than what you want it to be.
Can we keep working at it? Of course we can.
Can lawyers and so-called activists quit using as the number 1 reason why something went wrong or somebody didn’t get what they want? Yes.

Where do you live?”
- Kansas City, Missouri

NOBODY said “what the hell, their black and poor, no need to try and help them.”
People died in a tragic disaster. Quit trying to make their race more important than their death.

Posted by: kctim at September 9, 2005 3:18 PM
Comment #79386

Henry

In the middle blog we are talking about poverty.

Half of all American will always earn a less than average wage. Everything is relative.

How much should someone be paid? We can’t determine that unless we know the person, the job and the market. Not all skills are equally valuable.

These people you mention at Wal-Mart. You imply (whether you mean to or not) that they are not even worth whatever low wage Wal-Mart is paying them. So should we put them out of work entirely? How would paying them more improve their skills?

And those forester guys I mentioned would not be displacing people who would be doing the job. They would likely be doing the job nobody else would be doing - at least in a expeditious way.

Posted by: jack at September 9, 2005 3:44 PM
Comment #79477

Henry Schlatman
However, the $10 that both worker recieves will only go to cover the basics (food & shelter).

There are alot of people in this part of the country that are making $10/hr. They’re buying homes, new cars, tvs, steros, and other items.
They’re also feeding their families on this $10.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 9, 2005 8:33 PM
Comment #79495

Rom,
Since your question is easier to answer I’ll take it first. Read the Rules and Regulations that govern all of us. Yes, citizens making $10/hr can buy a home; however, we help them purchase that house and offset many expense that are hidden deep within the Laws of the Land. From Community Reinvest Act, our government forces our financail institutions to set aside 10%(I think thats the amount off the top of my head) of their profits to go back into the community that their deposits come from. 20 years ago that money went to infrastructure, today it goes to home ownership.

HUD provides upto a $10,000 grant for first time Home Owners, funding for home ownership class, and a host of other services designed to assist that person making $10/hr. In fact, if a Family of Four makes under approx. $50,000.00/yr they are by Law entitled to Federal, State, and Local Assistance. All which adds to Taxes that we are forced to pay.

Jack,
Your right, I do believe that there are some citizens that do not deserve to make the money that they get paid. Not based on skills or the ability to work, but their attitude. Why should we pay those working who do not add positvely to a corporation making money? Do you think that it is fair for some employees break the back to do a good job to watch a person stand around and do nothing, but get paid the same amount of money?

As far as which job deserves to paid more than another, that question is easy. Which job is required so that the corporation can make money, not meet the paperwork required by the government or find ways around (loopholes) The Law. For example, while a general manager deals with the paperwork of a restuarant, his job is not essential for the owner to make money; however, would you eat at that restuarant if they had no one cleaning the dishes? Even our Laws protect us against the owner who trys to make a dollar serving “We the People” on dirty dishes.

Now, granted I know that the general manager saves (hopefully)the owner money in the long run, but without the dishwasher, cook, and other staff members the owner can’t make the dollar so that the general manager can save him part of it.

And for the work that needs to be done by your forest folks, I do believe that over the next month or so there will be more work than even they can handle. Yet, do you understand that if a group of people got together and really wanted to screw everybody else they could go into the areas effected and low bid the locals out of a job. Price guaging(sp){i’m getting tried} in reverse, but making money based on quanity instead of quality.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 9, 2005 9:45 PM
Comment #79614

Can anyone explain to me what compassionate conservatism is? I don’t have a clue.

Posted by: 2 Cents Dreams at September 10, 2005 1:27 PM
Comment #79619

2 Cents Dreams,

Conservatism minus the greed, corruption, cronyism, self-centeredness and irresponsibility?

Posted by: jo at September 10, 2005 1:37 PM
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