Republicans & Conservatives: Archives

It suggests that for some reason, many Americans can become emotionally involved with the travails of a distraught family that happens to be white, but not a family of color

Chops,

Let me suggest a more sinister consequence to this societal reality.

Due to the fracture of broadcast media, there’s intense competition among news outlets to capture and retain the ideal, targeted viewer/consumer demos coveted by increasingly powerful and demanding advertisers. And, it’s quite obvious by the sole fixation on the ‘Natalee’s’ that go missing, that these stories attract (in droves) those cable news viewers that keep major advertisers happy.

The villains here are not those Americans with deep-seeded prejudices and fears, but the media giants who recognize that the exploitation of such failings are now a necessary part of doing business.

Chops and Bert,

You both make excellent points.

1)The divisions real and perceived comes from both people of color and whites.

2)The media plays a major role in the division.

These things can also be said for both political parties and Those of us who are straight and those who are gay.
People are going to demonstrate their prejudices in a variety of ways. There are those who are subtle that vote partly based on those prejudices or the people who let their feeling be known by throwing hateful slurs at people who are different from themselves. As a person of color it’s sometimes easier to deal with the latter, at least you know where they stand.

Chops—

I can understand and appreciate the point you are trying to make, but like most issues dealing with race in this nation there are grey areas to be dealt with missing white women aside. It is interesting that no matter how high upon the education and or business ladder I climb; no matter how far away from ghetto dress my attire; no matter how nice the car I commute to work in, I am still “The Other” to you and millions of other white Americans.

I do not set myself apart as a Black man; I am made, on many different levels, to feel as though I do not belong. White women still refuse to be on an elevator with me alone, and are generally afraid the approach me (oh the stories I could tell). They have bought into over 400 years of misinformation about Black men, not all of it from the media. And most white men are intimated by me; this is not merely my perception, it is what I have been told on numerous occasions, by co-workers and supervisors alike. Granted, I am a large man, but come on!

Until we disabuse ourselves of these preconceived notions about “The Others” no ground will be gained towards understanding and empathy. And I would respectfully submit that the reason Black Americans forged their own identity was out of necessity. After all after the Civil War, white America wanted nothing to do with black America; we could not live, eat, drink, bathe, swim, golf, break wind, or otherwise relate to whites unless it was in a subservient role. Only after Jim Crow was buried did Negro’s in this nation start to fully assimilate into greater American society, and even then whites ran. What’s a Negro to do but form his own identity separate and apart from white America?

Interesting, and at least less offensinve than the other 5 posts on “multiculturalism” in the red column.

I would add a few of my own observations on how to be more inclusive and aware of our neighbors:

1) I work for a public university and I really don’t see the whole “we’re different” phenomenon of hispanics and blacks that you mention. They integrate pretty damn well in the classroom, in various campus jobs and extra-curricular activities. I do see that in choosing friends they are more comfortable around people similar to them (aren’t we all) which brings me to a second point:

2) The biggest factor I see is an economic one (and maybe a subconscious racist stigma that follows blacks and hispanics due to the troubles of low income neighborhoods). There is a vicious cycle of low income families not being able to afford to live in richer areas, followed by the wealthier and upwardly mobile in their area trying to get out once they can afford it, followed by a deppreciation in the quality of their local education, followed by growing children who lack the qualifications and guidance to become upwardly mobile themselves, followed through to the next generations. This is no secrets, and we can all argue on the causes/solutions to low income minority areas, but the fact remains that these neighborhoods continue to face the same problems that they did generations back.

Now getting back to point one, It has been my experience that the blacks and hispanics that choose to “stick to their own” are generally the ones from poorer backgrounds. I still talk to many of them (I am a supervisor of many such students at a campus office where many work), but I get the impression they are just a little bit apprehensive of trying to fit in whith those whose upbringings and world views are drastically different from their own (and vice versa from the upper-class whites - granted it’s tough work breaking those barriers). Whereas blacks/hispanics who grew up in middle/upper-middle class families have no trouble assimilating with whites, and in some cases are even more comfortable with whites than blacks. On the other side of the fence, I think whites who have never been around lower class areas are equally apprehensive of welcoming “the others” and sometimes even exhibit racist stereotypes just because they don’t know any better. Both groups can be culturally sheltered and unaware of what really goes on in the other half of the economic spectrum.

I think the college environment helps to break down these barriers, but for the many who aren’t able to afford college, they might have a harder time fitting in with other social/economic classes.

I don’t think you can just tell blacks/hispanics to “just integrate already” or whatever you are implying; I think we have to help change the things that divide our society such as economic segregation of neighborhoods, equality in education standards around the nation, etc. Programs like Affirmative Action have helped in the past, but it needs to come along with a public awareness and willingness to break boundaries from the parties on both sides of these boundaries.

I think this issue is much simpler than discussed here. We are all prejudiced. Whether this prejudice is racial, sexual, height, gender, language, or shoe size doesn’t belie the fact we all have them, both majority and minority populations.
The problem in redressing the inequalities engendered by these prejudices is when people don’t acknowledge they have them. My personal epiphany occured while dating a Columbian girl. She asked why I didn’t like her brothers and when I protested to the contrary she listed how I showed a dislike towards them. Introspection led me to recognize that my Mom’s dislike of hispanics had imprinted on me and I now try to be aware of when those prejudices present themselves and adjust my behavior appropriately.

Why do I bring this up after V Martin’s post? It’s because although the posts here all sound logical and understanding, they include tremendous amounts of the biases I’m talking about, including V Martin’s. It’s not conscious, and I don’t think it meets a standard of “bigotry”, but if we were to see ourselves from the other’s eyes, we’re on our way.

Thanks to everyone for the intelligent comments. I consider it flattering to have received not only such interesting comments, but having received them from diverse sources. One of the great redeeming qualities of debate at Watchblog and elsewhere online is the ability to mask parts of who you are and speak only as a person. You are judged solely by the content of your arguments.

Andre - You’re right about political, sexual, and other biases being a factor here. I think race is more serious because it’s immediately apparent. I have no trouble identifying with a friend. Like Dave says, he didn’t have a problem going out with a Colombian girl, but his own biases toward Hispanics came into play with those he didn’t know as well, even her brothers.

Amazing - I’m glad you see strong integration at your school. I was deeply disappointed by the self-segregation of Hispanics and blacks at my university (a large liberal Massachusetts univ). The insular mentality among black students especially really surprised me and a had a deep impact on my thoughts on this topic. (BTW, this was not nearly so much in class as in student group life).

Next week, I’ll be entering grad school in upstate New York in a program that is 80% foreign students. I dearly hope that they don’t socially disappear into their respective national student associations, but are willing to get to know Americans and other internationals.

“Let’s put these sociocultural assets to work and build an America that includes everyone.”

Any suggestions on how we could do this?
Political pandering intentionally places people into groups in order to get their vote.
So-called leaders promote division in order to sate their desire for money.
The media, as Bert said, preys on peoples fears to sell their product.

As long as people are willing to distinguish themselves as being different by allowing themselves to be placed into “groups,” we will never look at each other as being the same.

Great post Chops and great replies all.

Chops,

“A Large Liberal MA University”? Liberal is redundant in MA (where I live) but I’m curious if it was urban, suburban, or rural. In any case, if 80% of your new class is foreign, then I imagine any insularity would be felt by you (if you’re caucasian).

Good luck in NY (where I grew up).

Dave—

I would be interested in hearing what “biases†I brought to the discourse.

Dave -

I went to Northeastern University, which is right in the heart of Boston.

V. Edward Martin,

If it makes you feel the least bit better, as a young woman I feel uncomfortable being alone in an elevator with ANY man I do not know, regardless of race or size. However, I admit that I do not take that discomfort to a level where I will not get on the elevator, because I’m more capable in the matters of self-defense than many women feel they are. It may be that you are more likely to notice it when people are uncomfortable around, both because of your size and skin color, than other people, not necessarily that people are more uncomfortable around you. I am not saying that is not the case, and it certainly doesn’t excuse people treating you differently.

My brother, who is white, is also big. People shy away from him all the time. I’ve seen lone women cross the street to avoid him. So, such reactions are not necessarily based on race.

V Edward,

I can only relate to you from my experiences.

I worked with a black gentleman that had a chip on his shoulder, we worked together for a laser light show company, and as such we also worked with stage unions.
This man constantly bitched that we treated him differently, and his excuse was that, it was because he was black.
Well, show business is probably one of the most colorblind ocupations that I have ever worked around.
This man was treated differently, not because he was black, he was treated differently because he was an ass. He was unable to understand that if he had acted like “one of the guys”, he would be treated like one of the guys. He couldn’t see passed his own prejudice, and as a result he took a lot of grief for it.

IMHO, it’s time we all became racists, human racists.

the amazing race,

There are poor whites too who live in those same poor neighborhoods (at least in my area) that integrate just fine with the blacks/hispanics/asians in that area that want to integrate. Those that hold themselves aloof from their neighbors are the ones who I’ve heard complain about racism, and yet holding themselves aloof was a choice they made (consciously or unconsciously) not a choice that was forced upon them by their neighbors. When taking away the economic or geographical factors, there are those who choose to integrate and those who don’t, no matter which race they belong to.

One of the biggest deterents, from my experience in ghetto Milwaukee, was the language barriers, which includes BEV. I had neighbors that spoke Russian, Spanish, BEV, Vietnamese, Chinese, and midwestren American, for just a few examples. I did not exclude any of these people based on race, but those who couldn’t/wouldn’t slow down enough for us to communicate (even in mimes if necessary) were those who were excluded from my company and my assistance where applicable.

I remember a Vietnamese woman who lived in my building carrying her two baskets of laundary at least two blocks to the nearest laundromat, with her two small children following behind, because she couldn’t understand that my laundary in the washer would be done in 5 minutes.

I remember a black man saying something, in BEV, that I just couldn’t understand. He was talking very fast and using words I wasn’t familiar with. When I asked to say it again, he called me a “stupid white b****” and walked away. A mutual friend, who was black, overheard the exchange and translated for me, but the guy was gone, so I couldn’t answer his question, which was about whether it was okay with me if my husband picked up his shift the next day. (My husband hadn’t had a day off in a week and half and we had plans, so my husband had told him it was up to me.) To say the least, I wasn’t inclined to do him that favor, not because he was black but because he was rude and impatient and seemingly unaware that there was a serious language barrier between us.

By the end of my year in Milwaukee, I could understand most of what I heard in BEV. My Spanish even improved. But I was still clueless when it came to Russian or Vietnamese, because those were the individuals in my area that were the least likely to try.

Racial barriers are barriers that people choose to fall victim to.

I only say this because if it were not true you would NEVER see the exception to the rule.Ever.And when you mention the so-called exception to the rule you get hit w/ a lot of ,”well, this, that and the other” as to what made that person different! Once again you are choosing to be a victim by admitting that the so-called person in question is better than you.

kctim,

“Political pandering intentionally places people into groups in order to get their vote.”

One way to combat this is to not give in. Anyone who fills out any significant amount of government paperwork on their own behalf knows that the race question is frequently asked. This question annoys me so much, because I feel it is irrelevant, that I stopped answering it as per their directions. Now I always mark “other” and write in American. If “other” is not an option, I make it an option.

Rocky,

Human racists? Prejudiced against humans?

Rocky,

Colorblind from who’s perspective?

Traci,

Not all people are endowed with the same strength of character. Some are able to overcome the bias they encounter and flourish in this American society, others buckle under the constant barrage. But either way it has an effect on the soul, the family, the community, and society as a whole. The effects of racism are quite evident throughout our society.

The get over it mentality shows a lack of understanding and empathy, both of which are needed to bridge the racial divide, because it dismisses the plight and or experiences of the slighted, and trivializes their experiences, which in turn leads to resentment and anger. And in the end nothing has been accomplished, has it?

But in keeping to Chops’ original post, I will readily admit to my own racial brick walls that causes me to think of one particular race as “The Other.†I am trying very hard to overcome this (mostly) unfounded block, but it is hard. But time and education lend themselves to understanding in the reflective mind, so there is help for me yet.

V. Edward,

The stage hands I worked with were a team. It didn’t matter which city we were in. Everybody pulled their own weight. It didn’t matter if you were green, as long as you pulled did your work, and treated folks as you wanted to be treated. That’s what I mean by colorblind.

I think that this whole color thing is grossly overated.
That’s not to denegrate the trials that minorities, and blacks in particular, have faced in the past, but let’s move on and just be people.

Stephanie,

“Human racists? Prejudiced against humans?”

Yeah, I hate everybody.

Somehow that didn’t come out the way I intended. I think that it’s time we look beyond this petty bullshit and grow up.

V.E.M.~

“Not all people are endowed with the same strength of character. Some are able to overcome the bias they encounter and flourish in this American society, others buckle under the constant barrage.”

I agree completely, but it still boils down to personal responsibilty, rather than racial barriers.

Trust me, I have battled my way through life, being a five foot tall woman is not the easiest position either. I never get taken seriously, and it is assumed that my height disrupts day to day tasks! Quite often, even in my thirties, people feel it neccessary to pick me up!

Do I give in to that, or prove them wrong?
I love the expressions I get when I perform a task that those could not fathom possible!
I just happen to be short, can you imagine what midgets go through!?

Rocky,

It’s easy for you to move on and just be a person of you are not the one going through the trials to begin with. It’s not so easy to “move on†when you are constantly reminded that color DOES matter in America. Did you ever engage the Black man you worked with and ask him why he wore his chip? Did you try and understand?

I am all for moving on, as I am sure the vast majority of minorities are, but just when you are at the point where you are feeling good about just being a human being something happens to remind you that you wear a suit that can never come off, and because of its color you are treated differently.

We (Blacks and other minorities) did not create the system, we did not write the Jim Crow laws; we have just had to live with the consequences and lasting affects.

Traci,

Personal responsibility has little to do with racism, morals do, and strength of character. Everyone has battled through life to some extent or another that is what life is all about, it is a constant struggle. Equating your experience with shortness to a Black man’s constant struggle with racism is disingenuous and misses the point. I have seen racism destroy men and families.

My father-in-law is one of those men. He worked for the railroad as an engineer in the fifties through the eighties. He was the only black man on his crew. The rest of the men made his life a living hell; everyday, he was subjected to one indignity after another, until little by little it destroyed him. He stopped going to work on a regular basis, which meant he could adequately support his family, which meant they ended up living below the poverty line in sub-standard housing. Why didn’t he quit and get another job, you might ask? Where was he to go, and not receive the same treatment?

My father is went through pretty much the same thing growing up in North Carolina, and the racial sickness was so thick he gave into self-hatred, which he transferred to his children; we barley saw him growing up. We later came to find that he was ashamed up us (my three siblings and I); no matter what our achievement, we were never a good as his new Asian family. Walk into his house and picture of his Asian grandchildren adorned his mantel, pictures of his black grandchildren were nowhere to be found. He openly expressed how proud he was of Asian children and their off-spring, but despite all I have achieved in this life, my father never once told me he was proud of me; it was like I didn’t exist to him. In the end he wrote us out of his will. We learned after his death from his cousin how much racism tore our father down, how the hatred turned inward and ate at his soul.

Countless Black families across this nation can recite similar stories, none are pretty, all are sad, and all are the hallmarks of racism, hatred, cruelty, and amoral behavior. Where does personal responsibility enter into the equation?

As for myself, I knew that I would have to be better than my white contemporaries at everything I did in order to achieve success. And for the most part I have succeeded, because of my strength of character, and because the racial climate in America is getting better, year by year. But at times I become weary of the constant struggle, and I can feel hate starting to eat at my soul but I push it back…

You and I will have to agree to disagree.

V.E.M.~

I guess we will have to agree to disagree because despite how sad your story is and I sympathize w/ you….It was your fathers “personal responsibility” to not leave his family.

COUNTLESS families everywhere (despite color) have endured similar stories!

I was trying to give a positive outlook but I guess I’ll dive deep into my plight……my grandfather molested me and my cousins….I have a very hard time trusting any man!!Maybe I should throw my hands up and hate them!?!

Poor white families in the small town I grew up in were relentlessly teased at school to a point where I couldn’t believe they even came back (they’re parents endured the same around town also).

V. Edward,

“Did you ever engage the Black man you worked with and ask him why he wore his chip? Did you try and understand?”

I am not sure the answer I have is the one you want to hear.

First a little background.

At the time I met this gentleman I had been a laser programer for 7 years. He was working in the shop as part of manufacturing, he had just started working for us and had been selling insurance before taking the job. He was an agressive sales type and had a hard time starting as labor.
Our crews were generally two men, a programer/tech, who did the obvious plus dealt with the client and a tech that babysat the system. We both shared the labor of the setup. He started as a tech and made it known that he wanted to move up. The main problem was that in order to do so he would need to learn and be proficiant enough with programing so that he could be sent out alone if nescessary.
With out patting myself on the back I have to say that programing laser shows takes not only talent, and creativity, but an extreme amount of patience as well, as finding out what the cliet wanted was sometimes like pulling teeth.
Also in all humility I was quite good at both programing and dealing with the clients.

Long story short, he had problems with the programing, and he had problems with the clients, and BTW he told me that I was what was standing in the way of his goals. I did what I could to help, hey I brought him into the job, but he couldn’t leave the salesman behind, and rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, including me at times, and I was more tollerant than some of the guys we worked with. He just wouldn’t put the work in to be a successfull programer. He would work his ass off for weeks building good will with everybody and blow it 15 seconds with an ill timed word with the client.
From what I could gather about his background, his father was an aggressive alchoholic and this guy was also an acholholic, though in total denial.
He ended up cratering and being fired after getting drunk and destroying $7,000 dollars worth of equipment during the loadout after a gig.

I think the foregoing exchange between Traci and VEM illustrates my point: conversations about the black American experience quickly boil down to racial differentiation. This conversation would not take place between two whites, or an Asian and a white, or between two blacks.

V. Edward,

As an add on to the above.

Our imediate supervisor gave this gentleman chance after chance, even after others in the company complained about his attitude. As it ended up I was the only guy that would work with him on a regular basis.
I had been sent out of the country on another job when the incedent took place.
During the final interveiw our boss wanted to suspend the guy, when he asked, “if I were white, would we even be having this conversation?”

Actually, the answer was no, because he would have been fired months before.

Look, while I can empathize with the plight of minorities in this country, I cannot begin to understand the feeling that society has put them down.
I have been friends with blacks my whole life. I went to an integrated high school during the sixties where I was the minority.
You treat people they way you want to be treated, and you can only deal with life as it comes, not how you would like it to be.
If you want life to change you have to be the one to change it, getting in someones face won’t change anything.

Chops,

Thank you for an interesting post.

Rocky,

I figured that’s what you meant, but wanted to be sure. Now I can say with full confidence that I agree with you. Which is nice for a change.

V.E.M.,

The experiences you’ve described are certainly tragedies, but the fact that your experiences are based on race and not everyone else’s is doesn’t make yours more relevant or significant. Whether prejudice is based on race, gender or whatever, it’s still wrong. If all the people who’ve experienced this (which includes MOST people) could band together instead of descending into the “my experience is worse than yours” b.s., we could find better ways for all of us to deal with it. Saying “I have seen racism destroy men and families” is exactly how you separate yourself from the rest of us. It’s as if you’re implying that being victimized in any other manner doesn’t destroy people and families. I’m sorry, that’s totally irrational. If that’s what you honestly think, then I guess there really isn’t a point in debating and we too will have to agree to disagree.

Traci,

My experiences weren’t with molestation, but with rape. And I know what you mean. It’s hard having to remind yourself that “men aren’t the problem, some men are” when you’re talking about nearly half the human race. Sometimes it would just be easier to hate men or hate yourself, but easier isn’t better so we both shall struggle on.

“This conversation would not take place between two whites, or an Asian and a white, or between two blacks.”

Good call Chops.

In today US, I think racism, discrimination, etc. is more often in the eyes of the beholder and not the ones around him.
Its not right to assume somebody won’t work hard, isn’t honest, a nag, a criminal or anything like that based on the color of their skin or gender.
It is just as wrong to assume people think those things because of the color of their skin or gender.

We all have prejudices, but can we respect those people that we feel different from?

If you answer yes, you will be able to explore your feelings and opinions while getting to know more about those who you previously felt seperated from. You can then either confirm your earlier views or get to know that person and not feel the speration to the extent that you did before.
If you answer no, you miss out.

Andre,

Yes, but the “other” side needs to give you room to get to know them. If they don’t there’s no room for growth.

Chops -

Excellent points presented. Such as:

The black community needs to recognize that while non-blacks may not have lived in their shoes, they can still hear the stories and empathize - and identify. Blacks who run with white friends should not be accused of “acting white”

A common culture can bind different races.

Maybe racism isn’t worse than some other things that can happen. Nonetheless, it is a serious problem and something that is still very pervasive.
I think that saying that racism (or separation)is the fault of the discriminated against because they didn’t improve their situation or deal better is silly. No one would ever say that sexual assault was the fault of the victim, or that we should just look the other way because the victim should be tough enough to deal with it.
My own experience has taught me that racism lies deep and is not easily overcome. My wife and I recently adopted a daughter. When we were in the process of adoption, We decided that we would welcome a child of any race. However, when it was time to actually fill out the paperwork, it was hard for me to say we would accept a black child. I don’t know why. I had no reasons. The feeling actually caused me a considerable amount of guilt and soul-searching.
Additionally, after we adopted, our families would ask if my daughter, who is hispanic, would speak with a Spanish accent, and when we would send them pictures they would comment that they thought her skin was “lightening up”, and then act a little dissapointed when they saw her. They love her, know she is our daughter, and treat her like any other grandchild, but that race thing was still there.
Now that I have had my daughter for a while, I would be completely comfortable adopting a black child next time, so whatever my problem was it’s now gone.
Anyway, I hope someone gets something out of all that. It was cathartic,at least. I guess I just think that viewing people as “others” based on skin color is something that goes deep, and playing the blame game on either side for lack of integration is probably only exacerbating the problem.

Brian Poole,

“No one would ever say that sexual assault was the fault of the victim…” Actually, people say that quite a lot.

It is never a victims fault they were victimized, but how they react to it is their responsibility. If you victimize others because you were victimized you are still at fault for the victimization you do.

I’m white and have been racially discriminated against, usually in the manner of being called a racist. A year ago I was told by a young child that he’d been molested by his mom’s boyfriend’s son. I called the cops. It went to trial. The boyfriend’s son was found delinquent (minors aren’t found guilty in Wisconsin) and sentenced. During the trial everyone, except the son, had to wait outside the courtroom until they got called to testify. During that time the boyfriend got in my face telling me I was a racist b**** because I’d called the cops instead of letting him deal with his son. Why? Because he’s black and I’m white. The fact that a crime was committed, that a young child had been violated, didn’t matter. He’s black. I’m white. I called the cops. Obviously I’m racist. The fact that he’s faced racial discrimination doesn’t take the sting out of his words, it makes it worse. Because he should know better.

“Anyway, I hope someone gets something out of all that.” You love your daughter very much and learned an important lesson. Thanks for sharing it with us. Now, if more people recognized the “whites” aren’t the only ones who need to learn this lesson we’d all be in a better place.

Before, we black people start crying foul, we need to lose the victim mentality that we’ve been dragging around for hundreds of years.Its time for us to stop blaming whitey for whatever’s keeping us down.I very well realise that there is racism amongst us but that is no reason to give up the fight because our granddads were mistreated years ago.If the Jews,during the holocaust, had reacted the same way we have they would have been extinct by now.They didnt and now no law gets passed in this country unless they say so.Oh!The power of resiliency!
For hundreds of years we have been dragging around this attitude that everybody owes us expecting the world to give us a lollipop and a hug and tell us not to worry, everything is going to be alright.The constitution guarantees us the same right as everyone else so why not take advantage of it?
I drive down the street everyday and always ALWAYS its black people I see who make up the majority of the vagabonds and homeless folk who hung out down at the corner store.Is it a coincidence that the inmate population is overwhelmingly black based?Maybe whitey wouldnt be ******* around with us if we had a substantial presence in the legal professionals.Or the medical field.Or if all our millionaires were not exclusively semi illiterate rappers or a bunch of jocks who couldnt have made it too far in life if they were a foot shorter or 20 pounds lighter. No doubt there is legitimate cases of discrimination but I refuse to believe that those represent the true situation for the rest of us.Give me a break.How many times,say in a week are you denied opportunity because you are black?I bet not as often as you would like the world to believe.
I know undocumented Mexicans who cant even recute the English alphabet who make more in a day than some black people that I know make in a month.Bill Cosby was right when he came down on us for spending so much money on tire rims our rents go unpaid.I also noticed that his most voracios opponents were successful black people who have made millions out of speaking for the black cause.People who have come to the realisation that the only way for them to stay up is if everybody else is down.
It tickles my funny bone everytime I hear white people skirting around this race subject because whatever they say will ultimately be used against them.I kinda understand that though.It would be very unseemingly for a black person to tell them how to collectively live their lives.This is a black problem and only we can solve it and so far we have failed shamefully.
Go ahead call me a self loathing nigger.I hear that everyday from self loving niggers who because of nothing other than inferiority complexes than can only be assuaged by $600 sneakers have not made their child support commitments in months.

I think that there needs to be a general drive for responsibility on ALL sides. Whites in this country just have a greater economic cushion for their foolish behavior because of how history worked out for them.

The reality of racial attitudes is that our brains do imprint more on those more like us, but also that our brains have the plasticity to change and adapt to others- including, literally, those we call “others” or “them”.

The key here is we got to relax and realize that we’re all just human, so if we go looking for character flaws, we’re damn well going to find them. We won’t succeed in raising up the disadvantaged of the other races if we apply a harsher double standard we wouldn’t apply to ourselves. We will only succeed if we can honestly say that we keep an equal standard and judge ourselves no better than they.

The truth about multiculturalism is that even as we rail against it as being nonsense, we’re living its reality everyday. Our cities and supermarkets are filled with foods that reflect different international origins. I could eat mexican, italian, chinese, and Japanese food in a single week without once shopping at a different supermarket.

Our children watch anime, play soccer, go to Kindergarten, and wait for a jolly old Dutch elf every December 25th to give them presents.

We live multicultural lives, and don’t even realize it, because it’s all we know.

Our problem with Illegal Aliens has nothing to do with multiculturalism, but the fact that they and their employers are allowed to break the rules for immigration and labor laws. We’ve allowed that behavior to become parasitic on our economy, so it’s going to hurt to put things right. Enforce the laws on the books, and give the border patrols either the funding or the organization needed to combat this problem.

As for the new arrivals in this country, from Arab lands and others, we should expect some friction and some insularity. But we should keep in mind that equality and freedom are the name of the game, and America has absorbed other cultures into its mix and will do so again.

John Doe,

How is the “Angry black man against blacks” any better than the “Angry black man against whites” mentality?

Get angry about racial discrimination. Get angry about poverty. Get angry about unfair incarceration. Get angry about illiteracy. Get angry about disproportionate distribution of wealth. Get angry about dead-beat dads.

Just don’t make it a “black” issue, because it’s not. Not all blacks face those problems. Nor do blacks face them exclusively. Individuals from all ethnicities face racial discrimination. Individuals from all ethnicities experience poverty (yes, even Jews). Individuals from all ethnicities are unfairly incarcerated. Individuals from all ethnicities struggle with illiteracy. Black millionaires are not exclusively “semi illiterate rappers or a bunch of jocks” nor are blacks the only ones to be kept down, economically speaking, by those with more money and power than the average man. And black men are not the only ones who selfishly choose to spend money on themselves while their children go unsupported.

I would never call you a “self loathing nigger.” In fact, I don’t use that word unless I’m quoting someone. However, your words are a testiment to “The Other” mentality Chops was objecting to. You’re separating yourself and your race out from “the rest of us”, saying “your” problems need to be cleaned up from the “inside,” when in reality “your” problems are everyone’s problems and need to be dealt with as a society, regardless of the ethnicity of those participating in those problems.

Anger and guilt are among the most destructive emotions. There are just causes for each, but they are overdone. The anger of some in the black community and the destruction this causes in the riots of the 1960s is something we are still suffering. Guilt often degenerates into ineffective pandering. The combination of both created pathology of the ghettoes that destroyed the poor, but somewhat cohesive communities and replaced them with hopelessness.

Race is very complicated. It was always a social and not a biological concept. Race is the physical sense has lost a lot of its meaning even in the social definition. Asians (including very dark skinned Indians) are now de-facto defined as white. An even more interesting phenomenon is that black African immigrants often get the same status in mixed communities.

We clearly need a different paradigm to understand race. There is no longer the black-white split. In some places, you hear about black and non-black. What does that mean?

My own preference would be to ignore it to the extent possible. Denial and problem avoidance deserve more respect than they get. We have a history with this concept. A century ago, the important definer was not race, but ethnicity and religion. We have almost forgotten this today. I hope that our kids will be able to do the same with race.

Stephanie,

Yes, but the “other” side needs to give you room to get to know them. If they don’t there’s no room for growth.

I disagree. If you respect the “other” side you are already making progress. The getting to know them may not happen as fast as you would want or expect, but by respecting the other side you are reaching out. You have placed yourself in a position to gain a better understanding.
If we do not respect those we feel different from the other side will sense that lack of respect and we will never see any growth.

Andre,

“If you respect the “other” side you are already making progress.”

That may be, but when I do respect people as people and do not judge people by the color of their skin, and yet am accused of being a racist because I don’t like or agree with individuals that happen to have a different skin color than I do, then the frustration and disappointment I feel often out weighs any sense of “progress” I may feel I’ve made.

Stephanie,

I wouldn’t worry about those people. You can’t change them.
My philosophy is, what can I do?
If you show me respect and I don’t return it, it’s my loss. I’m the one with the problem.
You’re still reaching out and are therefore the better person.
It boils down to respecting each others differences not whether we get along.
A question you might ask yourself is, when I disagree with people of color, am I coming across in a manner that let’s them know I am not a racist?
In your responses you seem to want to justify your position on racism, not bring about change or gain a better understanding of it.

“but when I do respect people as people and do not judge people by the color of their skin”

We’re not allowed to think like that Stephanie.
We must acknowledge the colors or we are racists.

“when I disagree with people of color, am I coming across in a manner that let’s them know I am not a racist?”

You see Steph, you can’t disagree with the person, you have to be disagreeing with a person of color.
Its not up to them to look past color. Its up to you to change in how you deal with people based on what color they are.

Andre,

“A question you might ask yourself is, when I disagree with people of color, am I coming across in a manner that let’s them know I am not a racist?”

Exactly how am I supposed to do that? I don’t even think about race as a factor. I talk to people as people. The only compensation I make to different people is the level of vocabulary I use. When I don’t know someone, I use a standard level of vocabulary regardless of who they are or what they look like. If I know they like to converse intellectually, I use my “50 cent” words. If I know they’re bilingual, and I know something of their “other” language, I use what I know to facilitate mutual understanding. If they prefer BEV, I accomadate them as best I can, though I can’t always keep up with the “preferred” terminology and thus often sound totally un-cool.

As for the man I referenced before, we had socialized on several occasions. I knew him well enough to be able to speak “on the same level” as far as language goes. We’d even talked about how strange it seemed to us that our children prefered to use “chocolate” and “vanilla” as their racial tags. We’d even talked about how bad it was that his girlfriend’s mom objected to him because he was black and how antiquated the notion that “inter-racial dating is taboo” actually was. He had every reason to know I wasn’t a racist, and yet when the chips came down and we were on different sides he made that claim without hesitation. He also got a nice lecture from the bailiff about how it was illegal to intimidate witnesses.

kctim,

Your sarcasm (at least, I’m hoping that’s what it is) doesn’t help the situation. Generalization is part of the problem. Either you have to generalize everyone into the lump of “human” and work from there, or generalize nobody, which I’ve never known someone who could do that.

Doing the them and us thing gets us all into trouble every time.

No sarcasm Stephanie. Its the way it is.
We can’t admire A-Rod the baseball player, we have to admire A-Rod the Hispanic baseball player.
We can’t admire Michael Vick the great quarterback, we have to admire Michael Vick the great African American quarterback.

I see nothing but two great ball players, nothing more.
For refusing to “group” them by color or whatever, I am considered a racist by many.