Republicans & Conservatives: Archives

Saddam Hussein had already purged Iraq of Islamic Law once, much to the chagrin of the “poor, oppressed Shi’a majority.” Now, Iraq’s interim constitution has “no law shall violate Islamic Law” written into its core text.

To rid Iraq of Islamic Law is to defy true democracy by that nation’s majority, is it not?

I think you’ve put the cart before the horse Sebastian.

I am sure that AI is as appalled at the ridiculous reason for her execution as you and I, but it has sensibly chosen to argue against the execution on firmer legal grounds, i.e. “As a party to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, Iran is bound not to execute child offenders”.

This is a much easier point to prove than launching an attack on the ills of Islamic society. A resolution to that particular problem will be a slow and incremental, and will require subtlety and engagement. I would guess that AI’s goals would be best served by instigating change from within the system to begin with, before trying to tear it down.

Or do I detect that you believe AI to be a cowardly leftist pressure group seeking to appease the Islamo-fascists?

I agree that these rather sick and digusting matyrdoms and islamofacists, as some here describe them, are blights upon the face of the planet.

The question I have, is why is it up to us to rid the world of these dregs?

Where in our constitution or our political underpinnings did our forefathers appoint us policeman of the world?

Since when did the conservative movement become the left wing evangelists of worldwide freedom and justice?

Sadly we are now entrenched in Iraq and must respond to the thug Sadr. We will pay a thousand fold for our troubles there in blood and money. And unless we are prepared to take up the role of empire that our “conservative” leader has thrust us in Iraq and are willing to stay the course for the next 30 or 50 years, One or another strong man will eventually rise and rule there.

I think it’s admirable for amnesty international to publicise such atrocities. I think the world is filled with horrors. I don’t think it is smart to spend our fortunes and our young men fighting wars with these arab despots. Using quick strike forces to eliminate true threats would be wiser.

Since when did the conservative movement become the left wing evangelists of worldwide freedom and justice?

Don’t worry Greg. We’re only in Iraq as part of Bush’s energy policy which recommends that “the President make energy security a priority of our trade and foreign policy.”

You’ll notice that there are no troops in Liberia, no substantial forces in Haiti, no plans to intervene in Sudan or any of the other failed African nations, and Rumsfeld is trying to get our troops out of the Balkans, Europe, and South Korea ASAP.

All the talk about humanitarian intervention in Iraq is a fig leaf, and talk like Sebastian’s is merely the product of the righteous right’s punditry, not the GOP’s foreign policy.

I would ask, what you would have of us? Are you suggesting an invasion of Iran? Unless we do that, we have no direct ways of ordering them around. Without the ability to directly impose our own kind of law, all that kind of rhetoric is, is hot air.

We should work for the reform of such countries, but our hand in this should be as invisible and unobtrusive as it can be, because our presence would be disruptive to the supporters of policies friendly to the kind of modernization that strikes the right compromises.

Things would be a lot easier had Bush not invaded Iraq. If we had an army free to back us up. If our army had been freed up quickly, we would have been capable of using whatever power of intimidation we were supposed to have on the tyrants of the middle east. As it is, we are their mercy, so long as they don’t openly participate.

Yes, Greg, one day we will realize that our strikes will have to be quick and decisive.

And thermonuclear.

There is no hope for Islam…

By your line of reasoning Sebastian, because America has convicted hundreds of innocent victims in the U.S. to prison and death row, democracy should be dismantled for something better.

A single case of injustice does not make an entire religion nor idea invalid. C’mon… Generalizing from the specific to the general is a fatal logical flaw.

J. Do you realize by using the word Islam you are talking about an entire religion? Hell, if that logic worked, we should nuke all Christians because a few fundamentalists advocate the elimination of all other religions in the world. I trust your use of the word reflects ignorance of its meaning and not wholesale eradication of all those who subscribe to the religion.

The word ISLAM has a two-fold meaning: peace, and submission to God. This submission requires a fully conscious and willing effort to submit to the one Almighty God. One must consciously and conscientiously give oneself to the service of Allah. This means to act on what Allah enjoins all of us to do (in the Qur’an) and what His beloved Prophet, Muhammad (pbuh) encouraged us to do in his Sunnah (his lifestyle and sayings personifying the Qur’an).

Once we humble ourselves, rid ourselves of our egoism and submit totally to Allah, and to Him exclusively, in faith and in action, we will surely feel peace in our hearts. Establishing peace in our hearts will bring about peace in our external conduct as well.

Sounds very similar to what fundamentalist Christians preach. Just subtstitute, Christianity for Islam and the Bible for Qu’ran. After all, it is the same God both religions pray to. They simply have different messengers in their religion, Jesus vs. Muhammed.

Yes, Greg, one day we will realize that our strikes will have to be quick and decisive.

And thermonuclear.

There is no hope for Islam…

No offense but that sounds like Osama’s solution for Christians, J.

Eerrr, Uuhhh- Is it possible for you to be more wrong ! If Christianity were captured, almost wholesale, by the KKK then I would be advocating the near wholesale destruction of Christianity. Islam is nearly absent the ability of self-criticism. If Christians were, as a whole, acting as do many muslims the remnant of Christians would never cease condemning them. Instead far too many muslims simply fold their hands, or worse, actuallly support murder and slaughter.
IF Islam is the religion of peace then let this peace shine forth for all to see….or not, as the case may be. But don’t, DON’T piss down my leg and tell me it’s raining !

Samaritan, you statement stands false on its face. There are about 1.3 Billion Muslims in the world, and we are not at war with even 1 million of them let alone 1,300 million.

Your remarks appear like religious prosecution and prejudice, not based on any evidence whatsoever. I wouldn’t think of telling its raining. It is partly cloudy and fair here. :-)

“A single case of injustice does not make an entire religion nor idea invalid. C’mon… Generalizing from the specific to the general is a fatal logical flaw.”

Of course not. But you know better than to believe that it is a single case of injustice. This is a normal part of sharia law.

Dear Mr. Remer- How many of these 1.3 billion muslims you speak of live in a system that is, even marginally, democratic ? How many of these peace lovers did it take to burn our people and hang them from a bridge in Iraq (while they laughed, danced and cheered) ? Recently some of these wonderous folks offered a child $1.00 to take a package to a border crossing into Israel. Thanks to an attentive guard the innocent (Palestinian) boy’s life was spared and the bomb he was given was defused. Not by muslims and not by an “all merciful Islamic deity”, he was spared by simple decency (The term Judeo-Christian comes to mind) !
When muslims get enough grit to put their collective foot up the asses of these low-lifes then, and only then, will they have my utter sympathy and total support ! If however, as I suspect, they desire oppression, injustice and hatred for others then they can’t legitimately complain if that same standard were to be applied to them….can they ?? As my Grandfather once told me, “If you want to pitch you had better be ready to catch”, and the bad guys have already thrown one at us “High and Tight”. If they want to make a complaint they’ll have to take it to the “I give a crap” window down the hall, if they’re still open.

Well, If we are there for energy policy reasons, $50 a barrel indicates abject failure doen’t it?

So far, I have not heard any of the Bush team or even the Neocons utter that, even in background.

I personally believe we are there at the policy suggestion of the Neocons, as a geopolitical move that even they are backing away from now. I believe we are there because Bush saw it as an opportunity to settle an old score and make political hay at the same time, naively.

Given the timing of the decision process, and the personal history of George W.,along with the books by insiders, I am lead to those conclusions.

I do believe the use of moral righteousness is a fig leaf which should give concern to the true conservatives. Where are their speechs of indignation? Pat Buchanan speaks out against this vision of empire, yet finds Bush a better alternative than Kerry. His logic in this, however, escapes me. Bush has painted himself and us in a corner. If nothing else, Kerry offers us an alternative to continuing to throw away lives and treasure into a bottomless labyrinth, because he can blame Bush for the mistakes that Mr. Bush cannot acknowledge, and lead us on a path out of another Vietnam.

In their heart of hearts, the conservative movement will eventually have to face the reality that supporting Bush is not supporting their own beliefs.

Kill them all and let God sort them out? So you would espouse genocide?
I’m sorry, I couldn’t agree less.
Christianity hasn’t been the dominant religion on this planet for quite some time.
We need to make changes from within. Christians need to start acting “Christ-like”.
We can’t kill 1.3 billion people. Even Bush wouldn’t be that stupid.

Sebastian said, “Of course not. But you know better than to believe that it is a single case of injustice. This is a normal part of sharia law.”

Just as an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, is the guiding Christian principle in gang wars, neighbor conflicts, and other crimes in this country by the millions. That does not make any case for destroying a society or religion which has at its heart and core, peace and love. Which both Christianity and Islam have.

It is not an isolated case that the U.S. imprisons hundreds if not thousands of innocent victims of our own justice system nor is it isolated that we convict and ruin lives of ‘criminals’ whose crimes have no victims.

“Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”.

When we can state that our own laws are fair and just in both concept and application, then let us consider destroying whole cultures whose base of laws or application is flawed.

But as long as our own nation is founded on principles like an eye for an eye, and tooth for tooth, as long as our own laws imprison persons for crimes which have no victims, let us try to be understanding of the fact that lesser nations in economic and military might, lesser nations in freedoms and liberties, may be flawed, but, their flaws do not warrant their eradication or submission to the will of other flawed societies or religions.

Samaritan, I think your xenophobic response speaks for itself. How blind to our own weaknesses and how blatantly one uses that blindness as a pedastal upon which to judge and condemn 1.3 billion people for the acts of some hundreds, needs no reply.

Samaritan:

How many of these 1.3 billion muslims you speak of live in a system that is, even marginally, democratic ?

Does the United States of America count?

According to something I read, The Sharia we normally deal with is more classical sharia decisions, rather than a true implementation of Sharia, which is more like Islamic jurisprudence, than Islamic law. Mostly, as is usual, it is merely man’s law given religious trappings.

I think it’s fatally stupid to confront Islam and its followers from a position of ignorance. It’s an even more fragmented religion than Christianity.

The question I have, is why is it up to us to rid the world of these dregs?

Where in our constitution or our political underpinnings did our forefathers appoint us policeman of the world?

Since when did the conservative movement become the left wing evangelists of worldwide freedom and justice?

Greg,

The short answer is: Since 9/11.

I can’t say I’m for permanent policeman of the world status, but we were attacked. In WWII it was national fascism, today it is Islamic fascism. Here you have a less organized, more decentralized enemy than Hitler’s Germany and Tojo’s Japan, but an enemy nonetheless.

According to something I read, The Sharia we normally deal with is more classical sharia decisions, rather than a true implementation of Sharia, which is more like Islamic jurisprudence, than Islamic law. Mostly, as is usual, it is merely man’s law given religious trappings.

I think it’s fatally stupid to confront Islam and its followers from a position of ignorance. It’s an even more fragmented religion than Christianity.

Sharia is based on the Koran, or is supposed to be, but are often just the local and tribal traditions and customs codified into ‘law’. Since Islam makes no distinction between secular and religious these ‘laws’ cover every conceivable human activity from what to wear, what to eat, and metes out harsh punishments for minor infractions.

It is everything the left accuses the religious right of being or wanting to impose, but for real! Punishment for being homosexual? Death. (No word on metrosexuals yet.) Punishment for Adultery? Death. Punishment for birthing a child without a Father? Death. Punishment for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Possible death, certain torture. I could go on.

There are good things about sharia as well. For instance suicide is illegal, which some muslims conclude suicide bombers as being completely against sharia. They seem to be in the minority though.

Other good things about sharia: teaches loyalty to one’s relgion, teaches discipline and responsibility for one’s actions, teaches obedience and respect for authority, teaches there is a right way and wrong way to do anyting, and sharia’s way is right and all others wrong, instills community and cooperation and discrimation against anything foreign. You know, all those good things found in fundamentalist Christianity.

After all, a hundred million or more Americans are working to merge religion and government in this land, just as Islam has done for centuries. That is what this country needs, a good political messiah!

Frank Herbert’s Dune fiction is looking more prescient than ever. Long live the Orange Catholic Bible and the coming of the new political messiah!

I want you to know that Melange is no longer my drug of choice, David, and I’ve been following a 24 step program ever since the butlerian jihad. No more machines that think indeed!

The crimes against humanity and women in particular carried out by Islamic Mullahs and Taliban leaders are atrocious and similar to war crimes (if not in scale). Those leaders use public execution as a means to maintain a fear based grip on power. What is harder to see is that our leaders engage in similar behaviors against our own poor and politically disenfranchised citizens. For all the money that is wasted lining lawyers pockets there still have been thousands of innocent people convicted and executed in our own country, while rich murderers and thieves go free. It was only with the advent of DNA technology that this became apparent. The strongest argument against the death penalty is that our legal system is imperfect and innocent people should not lose their lives because of those flaws. Today witch trials have been replaced with the hunt for imaginary “deadbeat Dads”. As with witch burning, the “executioners” get a lot of pride and power from “cleansing our society”. Rich citizens and government bureaucrates love things the way they are. We have the power to fix the mess, but politicians use fear cleverly to get us to vote against our own best interests. As DR says the only way to fix it is to run the incumbent bums out of office until they get the message that we will not tolerate their shenanigans anymore. We have it in our power to do so, but most people are too afraid or too ignorant to vote in their own best interests. Dumbed down schools and TV serve our leadership well.