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Miguel, your sentiments and thinking are in the right place as as far as I am concerned regarding heroes.

Our values are not the same, however. You stipulate that giving up millions of dollars is key to his being a hero. I believe he expected to earn those millions when he got back from war. My values don’t measure heroism in terms of money.

I agree entirely, he did something we would not expect of most citizens. I don’t follow sports and had no idea who Tillman was until the stories of his death hit the media. But, for me what distinguishes Tillman most, is his value system which put something other than money as a very high if not highest priority. We agree on this entirely. The fact that it was his serving his country, speaks volumes of his character and integrity.

But, I don’t think that makes him a hero. I think his choice to serve instead of remain and make money was an heroic decision but has little to do with his going to war and dying. As you say, more than 700 have done that. Heroism in war however, for me, requires a deliberate, knowing act of endangering oneself for another.

Military training instills in most soldiers the psychology that if they do their job and their buddies do theirs, their risk of losing life or limb will be small. In fact, research shows most combatants have all kinds of strategies for rationalizing that they will not be the casualty of the day. Such a mind set allows average men and women to do what appears heroic to those of us who have never been in combat.

But a hero in my definition walks into danger knowing their number will likely be up in order to assist or save another. That for me is heroism. And that is extremely rare indeed in a population of 290 million, except perhaps for mothers and fathers, who have a more natural propensity toward heroism where their children are concerned. Fortunately, the call to heroism by mothers and fathers is also rare, or we would have a lot more injured and dead mothers and fathers. One of the gifts of being born in America.

As for Patton. I couldn’t disagree more. Patton (probably tongue in cheek) defines killing as heroic. I simply don’t buy it. But, that is me, and Patton was Patton. There is no questioning Patton’s valuable and unique contributions to the WWII effort in Europe.

Tillman was 25 years old when he joined the Army, he signed up for a 3 years. meaning he would have been 28 when he could have gone out. A three year absence from the game would make it hard for him to come back.I dont that he was planning on comming back to the nfl unless the war was won within those three years. He made no press confrence to anounce what he was doing and avioded any publicity to self promote himself. He was a marketing major, graduated with a 3.8 GPA, so I think he was aware of what he was giving up, and new that he did not want any fan fair about it. You are right in your description of a hero, and I was speeking to the definition of hero and how that fit with the Tillman story. It is also intersting to note that Tillman joing with his brother, who was a minor league prospect who also joined the army.
I just think that there are few people would do what Tillman did in joining the army instead of pursuing his promising NFL career. How many people would leave any well paying job to join the army? Speeking on compensation for our soldiers, I believe that we have to pay them much more, including a million dollar insuarance policy for their families and give them at least 50,000 a year, for those in combat zones.

I think Mr. Tillman was probably an admirable person with a deep sense of duty.

But there is another part of me that believes he was a sap.

He died fighting for what? Freedom? For who? Certainly not for this country. Certainly he did not avenge the deaths of the 9/11 victims.

He died for a policy that is someone’s theory of geopolitical stragtegy, who by the way, avoided combat. The twisting of patriotism into the machinations of power are deeply cynical to me.
It is why flag waving disgusts me.

It is sad Mr. Tillman died. His family is suffering the consequences of his and our politicians decisions. I do not sleep well because of these very real consequences of the rather poor decisions to choose war.

I think Tillman is a hero. If he ain’t a hero, who is?

His death, and the attention brought to it, has made me think several things. Some of them are cynically political (and I apologize in advance for appearing to politicize a soldier’s death, but I am being honest about my thoughts here), some of them are introspective thinking about the nature of heroism and military service:

1) The fact that he chose to volunteer to hunt down Al Qaeda after 9/11 is without a doubt a heroic decision to fight for a just cause. If he had volunteered right after Bush declared war on Iraq, however, my opinion of him would have plummeted.

2) Well, okay, my opinion of him would not have plummeted all that much because after all the guy may well have been fooled in the same way that most Americans seemed to have been fooled by the Administration’s WMD rhetoric.

3) From what I have heard, this is the first fallen soldier that President Bush has spent his breath on, at least publicly. I guess you have to be a famous football star, otherwise your death is simply a liability to Bush. If Tillman had died in Iraq and not Afghanistan, would Bush have been able to use his death as a political asset? Or would it have been perceived as more of a liability insofar as Iraq isn’t perceived as as much of a noble cause as Afghanistan is?

4) What is a hero? How is military service particularly heroic? I certainly think of Tillman as a hero, but quite honestly if I knew him as a friend I would think he was being extraordinarily stupid for throwing his life away and joining the military. His drive to fight for his country clearly surpassed his desire to make money playing football (and despite what David Remer has said, he probably knew that his risk of dying was quite high compared, for example, to the risk of dying in the NFL).

I end up with conflicting thoughts on the heroism of military service: on the one hand, I am deeply grateful and thankful that so many people serve their country by joining our military. Many of them do so out of economic necessity, but I know that many of them do it out of patriotism. There are other factors as well: these people have a particular affinity for the structure of military culture, they have a certain comfort level with violence, they have an appreciation (somewhat disproportionate I think) for the importance of military acheivement among the great works of humanity. These factors make such people different than most civilians and certainly different than most people I know (I have over time had several friends serve in the military, but they’ve all been in the “economic necessity” category).

So on the one hand I always want such men and women to serve in the military and protect our country, but on the other hand I don’t hold any of those values personally and I would not want any of my friends or family to hold them, either. Perhaps that makes me a coward, but I guess I feel, much like the chickenhawks who currently run the country feel, that it is my place to participate in the civilian machinery and it is someone else’s place to fight and die in wars. If any war got to the point where the current military population couldn’t handle it, and I was needed, I would serve my country. But for now I simply feel grateful that there are people like Tillman, people whose value systems are so different from mine that they will work hard, fight, and die in my place.

So there’s my rationalization. I wonder: how do other people rationalize calling a man like Tillman a hero while you yourself do not serve?

-Cf

I don’t know his politics, and at this point, I don’t care to. But this guy, by giving up all he did to put himself into a position where he stood the chance of losing it all, qualifies as a hero, especially since he did lose it all.

So many of the rich in todays world are willing to push for wars of these kinds, but are unwilling to give up their wealth and their comforts to truly put those ideas to the test. It is one thing to be a patriot when no sacrifice is required, and no risk is present to life and limb, and a another to do so when all can be lost for the cause of freedom.

I would challenge all wealthy individuals to follow his examples, if they consider themselves patriots.

Miguel,

I have blogged a couple of times about the mis-use of the term ‘hero’, mainly by a disengenious media with air-time to fill.

Pat Tillman made an admirable and significant ‘sacrifice’, in my opinion. But, it does not fit my personal requirement of what a ‘hero’ truly is.

Sgt. Donald Walters fits exactly what I think a ‘hero’ is!! If the name does not ring a bell (and I’m not surprised) go here:

http://www.rense.com/general39/private.htm

To quote Bert M. Caradine:

“Pat Tillman made an admirable and significant ‘sacrifice’, in my opinion. But, it does not fit my personal requirement of what a ‘hero’ truly is.”

I couldn’t agree more- As an American citizen we have a responsibility to serve and protect it which is something few Americans are willing to accept. A citizen should not be praised as a hero for giving up a chance at fame and fortune! To praise someone as a hero for giving up RECREATIONAL SPORTS as a living is ludicrous! There are other people in Iraq who may have been studying to become a doctor or an architecht or a biologist?

Not to stray too far from the topic at hand, but sports players (among other citizens in this nation) are grossly overpaid. To say that sports and movies are not important to this culture would be absurd, but as I’m sure you’ve already heard fire fighters, paramedics and nurses alike all make much less than these people and do so much more for the world.

Pat Tillman should serve as an example of every Americans responsibility. Pat Tillman surely is not a hero. Yes his actions were uncommon and if you follow the dictionary.com definition a lot of people would fit this description. I contest that this general and broad definition need revision at least when concerned with matures of politics and nationalism.

Please excuse the numerous gramatical / spelling errors in the previous post.

Tillman is not a hero because he gave up a pile of money. He’s a hero just for volunteering for a dangerous job protecting America. Trevor’s correct, however, that lots of people fit that definition — but hey, we can have lots of heros, can’t we?

-Cf

This liberal’s opinion is that he was one ballsy, gutsy, heroic guy.

He died fighting for what? Freedom? For who? Certainly not for this country. Certainly he did not avenge the deaths of the 9/11 victims.

Greg, that’s just wrong. Tillman was humping the hills of Afghanistan looking for bin Laden. That to me qualifies as avenging the deaths of the 9/11 victims. I have a lot of respect for him and all the guys over there.

I just wish Bush would refocus back to bin Laden and al Qaeda. What happened to all that “dead or alive” stuff? If Bush is going after bin Laden, he’s sure taking the long way around; and stopping to do some sightseeing along the way.