July 16, 2003
Democracy in Iraq moves forward
Thanks to the liberation of Iraq and the wise policies of George Bush, Iraqis finally have a chance at mastering their own destinies:
Iraqis have inaugurated a broadly representative governing council months after the collapse of former President Saddam Hussein's regime. The establishment of the council will give Iraqis a certain measure of political control over a war-torn country still occupied by the U.S. and British forces.
The Iraqi Governing Council will join hands with the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA)--a U.S-led body that administers Iraq's occupation--to play a central role in rehabilitating the country.
A full three months has passed since Saddam's ouster. This shows that it is not an easy task to fill the political vacuum created by the fall of the long-running dictatorial regime.
(The Japanese writer ironically fails to mention how long it took for Japan or Germany to have their own governments more than half a century ago.)
The actual speed of the US in getting Iraqis to govern themselves is surprising even to supporters such as myself. Surrounding governments may be caught off guard by the speed of democracy spreading in a former fascist state.
Soon, it won't only be Iraqis who are glad George Bush was elected president in 2000.
Posted by Deleted User at July 16, 2003 03:38 PM | TrackBack (1)Just a thought or two here. It’s disingenuous to discuss this without mentioning the humongous price tag - about $4 billion a month - to bring democracy to Iraq. I’m glad for the people of Iraq if the council is able to govern. I’m very anxious to hear where the money’s coming from - or where it’s going to - but it looks like the Republicans(1) don’t want us to know.
And more importantly, until a day or two goes by without an American or Iraqi family hearing that their loved one is dead or wounded because of the “classic guerrilla-type campaign”(2) we’re now fighting, please do not use the word “wise” in relation to Bush and his policies there.
One last thought - I wouldn’t compare the three-week invasion, or as you’d call it “liberation,” of a small desert country with what happened in Japan and Germany following years of war, genocide and the dropping of the atomic bomb. Our intent there was not to liberate, but to annihilate. So it’s sort of like comparing apples and watermelons and there’s really nothing ironic about the writer’s failure to mention it.
(Note: for some reason, link codes disappeared when I previewed so here are the links:)
1) http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20030716_1206.html
2) http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/17/international/worldspecial/17MILI.html?hp (registration required)
Democracy move forward in Iraq.
At what price?
There are now more US deaths in Iraq than during Gulf War One.
Costs are running $4 billion a month.
Eroding confidence in the US policy at home and abroad.
When will the US public say enough is enough?
When will Bush admit responsiblity rather than blame others?
Posted by: Rick at July 17, 2003 07:04 AM“When will Bush admit responsibility rather than blame others?”
Sometimes it helps to think of Bush as a frat boy who never grew up. Irresponsible actions, selfish thinking and failure to see the big picture outside the little world he lives in.
Posted by: Cam at July 17, 2003 02:01 PMThe “wise policies of George Bush” are “headed for failure without significantly more money and dramatic new steps to reach out to Iraqis”, according to a Newhouse News Service article entitled, “Iraq rebuilding in trouble, experts say”. Read the full article: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1058521330189802.xml
Thanks to the liberation of Iraq and the “wise” policies of George Bush, Iraqis finally have a large and growing rape and human trafficking market:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2003/s904673.htm
and
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13202798
and
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0717IraqWomen17-ON.html
and
http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/world/Viewdet.asp?ID=744&cat=b
and
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2003-07/16/article05.shtml
and
Sorry to interrupt the Orwellian Repubican echo chamber…
Please continue…
Posted by: Jeremy Villano at July 18, 2003 10:41 AMhey, I’m all happy about Iraq and its good fortune and all, but my comrades in my major (EEE) and I seem to think that staying in college and surviving off of financial aid is way better than getting out in a job market where electronics engineers will be turning wrenches in a power plant or crushing granite at a construction site.
Who gives a crap about these people who are raping and murdering each other because now is an oppurtunistic time to do so? I work my a** off every day and pay taxes so I can expect no improvement in hiring conditions? Most of us don’t even have jobs pertaining to our majors. What kind of “experience” am I going to put after I graduate? Tutoring kids?
The hell with Iraq. The reason why democracy is coming “so fast” isn’t because Bush is a genius. It’s because we fought a ghost. Get it? It’s easier to “restore” something that’s in better shape. Germany and Japan were monsters. This is why it takes 50-odd years to recover.
Why do you even defend Bush? It’s not like he won’t subject you to Patriot Act simply because you’re his fan. Are you happy being continually conned? Oh yeah. You believe him. I get it.
ciaran
Posted by: ciaran at July 19, 2003 01:21 AMWhat democracy? This so-called council was APPOINTED by the American pro-consul.
Democracies require elections. But apparently not among the American Republican Guard.
Posted by: Dana Blankenhorn at July 19, 2003 02:18 PMFunny I thought they were still killing our troops on a daily basis and demanding that we leave their country. Are we talking about the same place?
Posted by: Jake of 8bitjoystick.com at July 21, 2003 09:47 PMThats the way folks! everybody focus in on the negative aspects of this situation. Please no matter what you do dont say anything positive about it. What type of rational thought is going into these posts? where is the analysis? Particularly disturbing is the short-sidedness of this argument that the counsel was appointed. Of course it was, there isnt a legitimate government or system of elections in place. There is a reason why it is called an “interim” GOVT.
Posted by: pete at July 21, 2003 09:57 PMAlso i havent heard a solution to the problem of democracy…only criticism. From a logical standpoint it seems that if you are to criticize our actions there to create a democracy that you are in opposition to it. If so Why? How are you to fix it? By not going to war? Leave Saddam in power? Lets hear it then.
Posted by: pete at July 21, 2003 10:01 PMPete,
I guess you’re saying that those who disagree with the administration and then have the guts to criticize it are guilty of treason and aiding the enemy? Are you saying that those who criticize want Saddam in power? Do you mean to say that those who criticize Bush and his imperialist policies are not in favor of democracy? Can you honestly accuse those who ctiticize the Bush regime of being against democracy in Iraq of being disloyal?
What you are suggesting is not much more than requiring every freedom loving citizen of the US to sign a loyalty oath and renounce our rights as outlined in the Constitution. Ever heard of freedom of speech?
What rights would you have us give up next?
I didn’t vote for Bush. I think he made the wrong decision in going to war based on dubious “facts”. He was wrong to ignore the UN and to go to war without global support. Bush went to war without congressional approval. Plenty of people would call those the actions of a dictator. So would I.
I don’t think the way to oust Saddam and democratize Iraq was to rush to judgement and rush to war. In doing so, Bush and Rumsfeld needlessly exposed our troops to hazard and death. Bush squandered any global good we garnered after 9/11 by snubbing the UN. His attempt at democratizing Iraq is becoming a well publicized failure.
I would have worked with the UN, increased the pressure on Saddam with more inspectors and blockades, worked with the body of democratic nations to increase the pressure, planned for democratization for the past two years instead of the past two months and funded overt operations against Saddam with the assistance of his political enemies. I would have assisted the UN construct a parallel governing body to take over after Saddam fell. No matter how long it took. As it stands now, there is nothing to say that my strategy would not have worked. Surely, you can see the mess we’re into now by following the poorly thought out strategy that the Bush administration constructed.
There I’ve said it. Now turn off Fox News and call me a “Saddam supporter”
Posted by: Rick at July 22, 2003 01:24 PMWOW rick you are obviously smoking crack because i never said ANY of those things. Why dont you just answer the question i posed instead of making false accusations and childishly putting words into my mouth. Why dont you turn off CNN and NPR? Just because i question you you are going to put all these accusations out there that i want to jail you and that you are “are guilty of treason and aiding the enemy” I never said that and for you to imply it is really stupid. Next thing….it does not take “guts” to criticize an administration just ask Ken Starr, what it does take is concise and rational thought on the matter at hand. It would take guts in Iraq to criticize that regime…not here. A marked contrast i might add. If FOX news is propaganda (and it is) Then so is NPR PBS BBC and every other news organization. They all have a right to voice thier opinions but you cant be dishonest and single out FOX. FOX is ONE channel that leftist Bush haters dont want to be on the air. Why? Have some integrity or (wholeness of thought) on this issue before you self destruct into your own rhetorical downward spiral.
Posted by: pete at July 22, 2003 02:20 PMPete,
1) I guess you have evidence about me smoking crack. If so please share it with everyone. Talk about truth in reporting. I suppose you think such comments are “Fair and Balanced”. Pffffft! Why do you need to stoop the the level of unfounded attacks on my character? This is a tactic that is typical of right wingers all while they deplore the politics of personal destruction.
2) Right wing extremists love to make the “logical” assumption that if you don’t like George Bush and/or speak out against the war and his policies that you are somehow anti-American, as evidenced by your statement, “From a logical standpoint it seems that if you are to criticize our actions there to create a democracy that you are in opposition to it”
3) Ken Starr didn’t need “guts” to do what he did. He had $70 million of our money. Bill Clinton ASKED that a “independent” (my ass) prosecutor be appointed. When will Bush aks for an independent prosecutor to investigate his lapses in judgement or why he lied in the State Of The Union speech.
4) If all of us on the left are doing is focusing on the negatives, pray tell me what are the positives? Democracy in Iraq? When? Saddam is gone? Prove it! You should be honest with yourself about the situation in Iraq. $4 billion a month, increasing numbers of dead soldiers after Bush declares “victory”, civilian chaos and no military withdrawal plan.
5) I answered the question as to what I would have done as President, as you asked.
You are just following the sheep.
Posted by: Rick at July 22, 2003 03:59 PMA little bit of your own medicine….
So anyone who supports the president is a right wing extremist or is a sheep? You must be a really young kid because you think like one.
“1) I guess you have evidence about me smoking crack” No numbnuts i said that you MUST be smoking crack….i didnt say i hade proof of quantitative and qualified scientific result. Gawd it is like talking to a brick wall so i am going to not bother with this malcontent. “politics of personal destruction”? While calling me a follower why dont you look into the mirror while parroting Democratic idealogues and quoting thier stupid buzzwords. End of discussion. Hypocrite.
“4) If all of us on the left are doing is focusing on the negatives, pray tell me what are the positives?”
Why dont you ask the people of Iraq what the positives are. Did you not see them cheering in the streets you primate. This site is nothing but one or two conservatives under constant barrage and is a total waste of my time. The question i asked is what to do NOW not what to do 3 mos ago.
Yeah the inspections really worked. What if we hadn’t gone in to iraq? Well I can tell you that 15 yr old kids in prison for not being part of the saddam youth would still be rotting in jail right now and rape squads would still be operating there. This is documented stuff. But you dont care because you are so polarized by your hatred for bush that you have lost all sense of reality. Murdering, Raping, death squads have now ceased to exist.YOU WANT POSITIVE I WILL GIVE YOU POSITIVE. Is it enough reason? Go to human rightswatch.org and tell me these reasons arent good enough. Tell it to the thousands of dead tell it to the 30,000 people buried in mass graves then tell it to yourself, but look in the mirror when you do you philistine. Sick.
Crack smoker. Young kid (I wish), Hypocrite. Primate. (at least he got that one right) Malcontent. Philistine. Hater. Sick
If this isn’t slander or character assination, I don’t know what is.
“MUST” be smoking crack is not an implication. It’s a positive assertion. For the record, I do not smoke crack. Never have. If you have no proof of my drug use, why bring it up?
I’ts too late now to find out if increased inspections and sanctions would have worked, isn’t it? Instead, Bush thought it wise to put soldiers at risk and make the US a global persona non grata for his adventure and revenge. We’ll never know if any alternative solutions would have found WMD’s or where they might be hidden or toppled Saddam, will we? Bush and his posse simply cooked the intelligence, lied to the US public and rushed to war egged on by the neoconservative agenda.
Iraq traded Saddam for a lawless, chaotic society where it’s unsafe for people to be on the streets after dark. Without their consent, the US removed a tyrant and gave Iraq street crime, rape, corruption and social chaos. If Bush cared about human rights in Iraq, he would have been prepared for the aftermath of the war. It’s a fact he was not and the Iraqi people are still suffering. Murder, rape and death squads, you say? What’s the difference if it’s by a dictator or your own neighbor?
People cheering the US? Tearing down a statue of Saddam? That as was phony as Saddam being able to fire a nuke in 45 minutes. Of course, Iraqi’s were happy to see Saddam out of power. It had little to do with the US military. Pete, where are all those US flag wavers today? It’s been a while since I’ve heard or seen any kind of warm and fuzzy feeling for the US invasion.
Bush has brought the polarization of our country on himself, Uniter, not a divider, my middle class white ass.
If I tell the Iraqi people I am sorry for their suffering under Saddam (and I am) I want you to tell the families of US soldiers that you’re sorry they were sent to fight a war based on lies and deception. Tell them that they died in a stinking desert because of revenge and oil, while you sat back and cheered on the Shock and Awe of their country.
Posted by: Rick at July 22, 2003 05:57 PM:> haha! Iraqis cheering was phony? This is a waste of my time goodbye philistine.
Posted by: pete at July 22, 2003 06:03 PMoh by the way it isnt slander it is my opinion. Philistine….i like the way it sounds, just kind of rrrrollls off the tongue.
Posted by: pete at July 22, 2003 06:05 PMI left out one of Pete’s juvenile insults to my character. Numbnut.
All this guy can do attack a person’s character to make his point. Not unlike some right wing pundits. Talk about a malcontent. Pete seem pretty malcontented himself. He’s probably upset because defending Bush is getting harder to do on the playground.
Posted by: Rick at July 22, 2003 06:06 PMPete, As much as you might like, slander is always an opinion. If it wasn’t slander, it would be true. And you cannot prove any of you allegations impugning my character.
I can see you’re impressed with your vocabulary. You like the way Philistine rolls of your tongue? Try Rrrrrrrrrrruffffflllles have Rrrrrrrrrrrriiidges. The words are shorter and easier to spell.
Posted by: Rick at July 22, 2003 06:22 PMActually i am not attacking your character, i am attacking you as a person…the whole of you. Everything about what you have said and i was hoping to troll you just a little bit. It is making me feel really good. That is all you extreme left wingers understand so at some point you just give up you know what i mean? There is no rationality anymore. So who cares? we have gone on and on and it is a waste so i might as well have some fun with the primates on the extreme left who are every bit as bad as the Pat Buchanons of the world. No matter how much evidence is presented it wont matter.
Posted by: pete at July 22, 2003 06:25 PMJust like a right wing antagonist. All BS, all the time. You had no intention of ever making a compelling case or defending it. You just wanted to make heat and not light. You don’t have a case, can’t make one or defend it, mano a mano. Coward. You have to depend on right wing media to do your thinking for you. You troll for flame and then beat feet when you can’t stand the heat.
How could I have been duped? I feel so foolish.
Honestly? I didn’t expect any more out of an uninformed apologist.
Come back when you have something relevant to say or can support you arguments.
Posted by: Rick at July 22, 2003 06:38 PMi am going to ask you just one question Mr Fabulous intellect. How is THIS a lie….
“the British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”
How is it a lie and i will let you go without telling your mom your using the internet.
Posted by: pete at July 22, 2003 06:48 PMand i dont have to make a compelling case YOU do because you are the one throwing the allegations around….soooo how is it a lie?
Posted by: pete at July 22, 2003 06:55 PMThe burden of proof is on YOU. Still waiting.
**more crickets chirping**
Well there you have it folks. There is nothing dishonest about that statement whatsoever. The point is moot and the emperor has no clothes.
Posted by: pete at July 22, 2003 07:01 PM
