Democrats & Liberals Archives

As U.S. Life Expectancy Wavers, Experts Call for Greater Emphasis on Public Health

In 2016, life expectancy for Americans declined for the first time in nearly 25 years. The last time American life expectancy declined was due to the HIV epidemic in 1993, where many Americans were oblivious to their illness due to a lack of immediate symptoms.

In contrast, the decline in life expectancy for Americans has left researchers puzzled for many reasons. Not only are life expectancies on the rise in other developed countries, but there is no singular disease causing concern in the U.S.

A recent study on mortality rates in America released last year shows that Americans can expect to live for 78.8 years, a decrease of 0.1 percent based on the previous year's data. While this number may seem miniscule, experts agree that this decrease is worthy of intervention from governing bodies.

"A 0.1 decrease is huge," said Dr. Peter Muennig, a professor of health policy and management at Columbia University. He also described the change as a "uniquely American phenomenon" that is the result of a number of chronic illnesses.

Medical and public health professionals frequently point to a number of chronic illnesses and behaviors that are to blame for this decline, including mental health issues, heart disease, lack of physical activity, and diabetes and pre-diabetes.

In a recent press release from the CDC, Ann Albright, who directs the CDC's Division of Diabetes Translation, noted that the disease is costly in both human and economic terms and urged physicians and health care leaders to take actions to help educate the public in order to prevent the disease in the long run. Without preventative action, it's likely that the disease will only continue to be more prevalent.

As Bradley University's School of Nursing notes, "While the number of people living with diabetes is high, the number at risk of developing the disease is even higher."

Chronic illness isn't the only factor that affects public health, however. As a recent column written by New York Times author Katie Rogers explains, factors such as race, income, and gender also play a contributing factor in the life expectancy of Americans.

Most at risk, Rogers reports, are working class whites, lower income Americans of all gender identities, and non-hispanic Black males, with common risk factors including drug and alcohol abuse, suicide, and economic vulnerabilities.

It's too early to tell whether or not these trends will continue in years to come, but researchers and public health officials are keeping an eye out for recurring trends. In the meantime, many entities are hoping to combat these public health issues at the local and national level through community outreach and the use of technology.

"Today more than ever, Americans have the power to prevent disease by making healthy lifestyle choices," note health experts at Arizona State University. "A wide variety of wellness apps and mobile health monitors are empowering individuals to monitor and analyze key health indicators like heart rate and activity and stress levels."

These tools can empower individuals to take charge of their own health, and opens doors for communities who may not have had access to physicians in the first place.

In order for American life expectancy to rise once more, individuals, public health officials, and physicians need to work together to combat the issues that are most likely to endanger the lives of American citizens.

Posted by DanikaK at July 20, 2017 2:27 PM
Comments
Comment #418451

It is a truly striking and disturbing finding that our life expectancy is declining while that of other developed nations is increasing.

It is not all that surprising, though. Americans are obese and trending heavier at an alarming rate. Walk around any mall. Travel to Europe or Asia. But, you don’t have to rely on anecdotal evidence. http://time.com/4435152/obesity-overweight-height-americans/

Why? I would guess a simple answer: lack of exercise and increasing reliance on fast food.

One might also throw in our lack of a universal health care system and virtually non-existent national public health system.

Posted by: Rich at July 20, 2017 7:00 PM
Comment #418452

Rich, the main cause of obesity here is probably what we drink, not what we eat. I don’t think that people eat more than they did years ago when everyone was thinner, but they drink a lot more calories. Some doctors will tell you not to drink anything that has any calories. After high fructose corn syrup was introduced into so many beverages. I found that I was gaining 5 lbs every year. Now people are more aware of the calorie content of fluids, but some people simply don’t care. Portion sizes for drinks have increased much more than portion sizes for food. I remember when RC cola introduced 16 ounce bottles of their product, much larger than coke and pepsi then. You only bought one of those 16 ounce drinks if you were going to share it with someone else. Now 20 ounces is the standard size for a bottle of soda.

Interestingly, since the ACA, diabetic amputations have been decreasing.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 20, 2017 8:58 PM
Comment #418455

You bring up a good point, oraoghilie. The size of soft drinks has increased dramatically over the past few decades. Every time that I am in a fast food restaurant or 7-11, I am astounded at the size of drinks that are sold. Some history. http://www.motherjones.com/media/2012/06/supersize-biggest-sodas-mcdonalds-big-gulp-chart/

Posted by: Rich at July 20, 2017 10:17 PM
Comment #418457

At a 7-11 you can actually get vitamin water in those big drinks, and people fill it half with ice, especially in the summer. At home I had a large 28 oz iced coffee with creamer but no sweetener this morning. I didn’t eat anything until tea time. When you get older, it gets harder to get enough exercise, and people tend to retain fluids, which is a lot of the excess weight in the people who are in the worst shape.

I remember those 7 ounce cokes in a vending machine at a mobil station nearby home. We weren’t allowed to have soda at home, and my closest brother and I drank a gallon of milk a day, mostly him.

I try drinking a lot of water with different flavors, but no matter which brand I try, I get tired of it eventually. Perrier is the best IMO. I stayed away from it for years after the benzene scare.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 20, 2017 10:38 PM
Comment #418458

Yes, the gas station 7 ounce Coke was a real treat. No soda at home also and a gallon of milk a day between me and my brothers.

Posted by: Rich at July 21, 2017 12:02 AM
Comment #418465

It’s not just the soft drinks my friends. Many foods contain added sugar that contributes to the cycle of overeating. It is hard to fond processed foods that do not contain added sugar and salt. Then of course the “cheese” in the boxed mac and cheese junk that is only half cheese and half who knows what.

https://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm385663.htm

I’m kinda waiting for Royal to break in here with his
” if we want health care why not food care” theory.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2017 12:46 PM
Comment #418467

Sorry to disappoint j2t2, is appears no one here is capable of making the connection between government controlled and demanded health care and food. The Left praises one and ignores the other.

Socialized medicine = good

Socialized retirement = good

Socialized food = bad

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 21, 2017 1:26 PM
Comment #418468

j2t2, you’re waiting for someone who won’t have access for about 3 more hours. One thing that angers me this year is how bad the produce has been. We have a very busy store called Jerry’s near where I live, and you can tell that everything is being shipped frozen, and nothing tastes right or ripens correctly. Even bananas are messed up. The usual variety is apparently going extinct. I end up drinking Bolthouse most of the time, or buying containers of fresh juiced vegetables. You can find some good grapes once in a while. There must be something else funny going on at the South Water Market on Fulton St.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 21, 2017 1:37 PM
Comment #418472

Oraoghilie, I agree I have wondered for years why most store bought tomatoes have lost their taste. Just recently we got a bag of grapes from WalMart and couldn’t even eat them, just tasted terrible.

On a side note my step daughter just received a masters in organic chemistry and her first job in the field is with a start up company working to put the flavor back into certain vegetables. So it isn’t just us or our taste buds deteriorating.

Royal, thanks. I would suggest that commodities generally aren’t something I would consider needing socialized. Old age, disability and survivors Insurance as well as Health Insurance is different. But it is worthy of discussion.

Who would benefit from socialized food? If it is anything like our crony capitalist system where TBTF losses are socialized while profits aren’t then some growers may think it not so bad. Or if in the future when a few select corporations control the farms, ranches, restaurants and the distribution of food it may be considered but now there is to many sources of food and competition, although the middlemen seem to be making more of a profit than the growers.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2017 3:29 PM
Comment #418473

Maybe I’m looking at this problem logically, but do you reckon illegal drugs, 1/6th of our population of food stamps and welfare (sedentary lifestyle), thanks to Obama for high unemployment among blacks, and of course open borders allowing illegals to enter the country laden with all manor of diseases. Life expectancy includes all manner of expiration, including thousands being killed every year in Democratic controlled cities.

Posted by: Blaine at July 21, 2017 4:02 PM
Comment #418475

Frankly j2t2, I am surprised you didn’t jump on socialized food as a wonderful new government benefit.

Nearly 50 million Americans are already receiving food assistance. If it was the law of the land, illegals could be presented with food baskets at the border just as they are now presented with health care. Is food not necessary for life?

One can argue that if government provided all food, the quality would be better and the cost lower.

These are the same arguments used by the Left to promote socialized health care. With government provided food we could effectively eliminate the middle-man making those “obscene” profits. And, government would only approve and provide what the bureaucrats in Washington deem fit and appropriate for the best health.

With a bureaucrat making all our food decisions, we would no long be fed animal products which are costly and cause health problems. A list of approved food would be provided to every state and only those foods could be legally consumed. States would be required to set up food distribution centers and all other food distribution would be illegal. Each state could decide when food would be with-held due to the recipients likelihood of dying soon. They would be fed a lethal pill instead.

Social Security is popular as it removes the decision for most people of how much to save for retirement. It is managed by government bureaucrats with few choices available to the recipient. It is mandatory for nearly every worker. The Left is totally against self-directed retirement planning as it understands that most people are not capable of making choices for themselves. Social Security has replaced individual responsibility for millions of Americans.

Medicare is popular. It is government subsidized health care for seasoned citizens. Medicare, like Social Security is not self-sustaining and must be heavily subsidized.

According to the trustees; “Social Security will pay out $27 billion more in benefits than it will generate in tax revenue this year, and cash-flow deficits over the next decade will total $1.4 trillion. The Trustees project that total Medicare costs (including both HI and SMI expenditures) will grow from approximately 3.6 percent of GDP in 2016 to 5.6 percent of GDP by 2041”

As the National Food Service became more popular, the politicians could begin pandering for votes by offering more popular food, greater quantities of food, and easier access to food. Soon we would have nationwide home food delivery.

This is just a broad outline and I am certain my Pals on the Left can fill in areas where I am not bold enough.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 21, 2017 4:12 PM
Comment #418479
Maybe I’m looking at this problem logically,

Good one Blaine, but highly doubtful.

But do you reckon illegal drugs, 1/6th of our population of food stamps and welfare (sedentary lifestyle), thanks to Obama for high unemployment among blacks, and of course open borders allowing illegals to enter the country laden with all manor of diseases.

You forgot a couple of myths Blaine but then a few exaggerations go a long way. But pray tell you get extra credit for blaming Obama for high unemployment, but I want to call you on that one, provide some facts to back up your “logic”.

Life expectancy includes all manner of expiration, including thousands being killed every year in Democratic controlled cities.

SO Blaine do you actually believe your “logic” or are you just blustering to impress your conservative friends? You mentioned in previous threads that most state and local governments are controlled by repubs/conservatives, so don’t those deaths count or is it just the ones with dem mayors?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate

Seems states that have the highest rates have two things in common repubs in charge and big cities with higher poverty rates. Your biased “logic”, and I use that term only because you think it is what you are using, seems to paint only half the picture.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2017 10:21 PM
Comment #418482
Frankly j2t2, I am surprised you didn’t jump on socialized food as a wonderful new government benefit.

And I Royal am surprised you would use such a strawman to make a case for free market health insurance. Responding to the various justifications you use would be like descending into idiocracy. It wouldn’t be so bad but you use double and triple levels of straw man arguments as you attempt to make your point.

So I ask you does a double straw man level of discussion negate each other or does a triple straw man do it? As an example you say “One can argue that if government provided all food, the quality would be better and the cost lower” I mean you add the straw man level of the government providing all the food instead of just providing food stamps that would allow someone to go to the store to get the food items they need. Or in health care terms medicare and medicaid are an insurance program and the recipients go to a doctor or hospital for the actual health care. The government doesn’t provide the doctor and the waiting room.

Your whole rant is this way, misleading and illogical. I mean you throw in such nonsense and the logic blunders are worthy of a small child. As an example you say “Social Security is popular as it removes the decision for most people of how much to save for retirement. It is managed by government bureaucrats with few choices available to the recipient. It is mandatory for nearly every worker. The Left is totally against self-directed retirement planning as it understands that most people are not capable of making choices for themselves. Social Security has replaced individual responsibility for millions of Americans” which is mindboggling to make sense of. So many myths misinformation half truths and…..so on.

First of all you claim the popularity of SS is because people don’t have to save for retirement, but most Americans that can do save beyond what they put into SS. The SSA doesn’t tell anyone any different, so where do you get this straw man? Then you tell us it is a government program with little choice but fail to mention it is an insurance program not a retirement plan. An apples to oranges comparison, my friend added on to a straw man.( BTW what free market plan compares to SS? Most are rip offs that take your money.)

But you don’t stop there Royal you continue on by telling us everyone to the left of center is against self directed retirement plans! My God Royal it isn’t a choose one situation, it is an A+B situation. Ask our fellow WB leftie friends if they have a 401k and SS, and if they fit the myth you describe. So as if that wasn’t enough of a logical flaw you continue on into yet another level of misinformation and illogical nonsense! You tell us SS has caused a failure of individual responsibility when in fact most Americans that earn enough today has both SS and a retirement plan! You just keep digging the whole deeper with this misinformation.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2017 11:28 PM
Comment #418483

j2t2, I applaud your attempts to make sense out of nonsense.

I also got some of those grapes that were inedible. I put them in warm water, and they became more edible. I have no idea what country they even came from. Wash well before eating. AARP says to wash with vinegar. I’ve always used lemon before. If you like mac and cheese, you’d better stick with Kraft. It might be more expensive, but at least it tastes like something. I’m going back to buy more Bolthouse drinks tomorrow. (http://bolthouse.com/)

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 21, 2017 11:29 PM
Comment #418492

j2, so your argument is that black unemployment did not exist under Obama. Sorry, but that is false. And I don’t need to provide links. It was common knowledge that Obama failed the inner city blacks. Unemployment was more than double the unemployment of the rest of the nation. Secondly, it is true that democrats have lost state and local elections by the thousands, but the violent cities are still under democrat control. Which ties in with disarming their citizens and providing sanctuary cities. Are you telling us it’s republicans who are pushing sanctuary cities?

Your Wikipedia link means nothing. Number one, I have no faith in Wikipedia, and two the link is implying the states have a higher rate of homicide. It’s not the states that rack up the murders, it’s the cities. The article goes on to say the reason is poverty, which ties right in with Obama’s failure to lower the unemployment of blacks. It ties in with drugs and it ties in with gun control. These cities are not run by republicans; the inner city problems can be laid right at the feet of democrats. Quit trying to impress your liberal buddies and own up to your own platforms as being faulty.

Of all the things in my post that you could have attacked, you chose the one that you can’t substantiate.

Posted by: Blaine at July 22, 2017 7:41 AM
Comment #418498
so your argument is that black unemployment did not exist under Obama. Sorry, but that is false.

No it isn’t Blaine, but thanks for backstepping on your comment “thanks to Obama for high unemployment among blacks…”. In case you forgot Obama inherited ther great recession from you guys. Millions of jobs were lost. So instead of wallowing in the conservative myth aisle of the propaganda store lets get some
facts. Now you can have some factual information to vent your Obama hatred instead of BS.


And I don’t need to provide links. It was common knowledge that Obama failed the inner city blacks.

Yes you do Blaine passing blame without facts, while typical of the conservatives here on WB, makes for an uninformed opinion. So tell me what law did Obama veto that would have helped inner city blacks?

Unemployment was more than double the unemployment of the rest of the nation.

OK you can repeat the conservative yalking points but I’m asking more from you Blaine, I’m asking for facts to back you up. Some proof Obama did something to cause this problem. Some facts to prove it didn’t exist prior to Obama.


Secondly, it is true that democrats have lost state and local elections by the thousands, but the violent cities are still under democrat control.

Yes but you only want to hear about the cities when per capita numbers indicate people are murdered in rural and suburban areas as well. In states with open carry laws and relaxed gun laws.

Which ties in with disarming their citizens and providing sanctuary cities. Are you telling us it’s republicans who are pushing sanctuary cities?

Nope Blaine I’m not saying that at all. I am saying you are going off half cocked. Your logic is faulty. You are saying all dem controlled are sanctuary cities and all sanctuary cities have higher rates of murder than repub controlled non sanctuary cities without anything other than your notion it is common knowledge.

Your Wikipedia link means nothing. Number one, I have no faith in Wikipedia, and two the link is implying the states have a higher rate of homicide.

Yes it does Blaine, you just choose to ignore it because you can’t deal with facts.

It’s not the states that rack up the murders, it’s the cities.

Yes Blaine you can use your “one eye closed” reasoning to justify your hatred but the fact is bigger cities have bigger populations and the problems associated with larger populations.


The article goes on to say the reason is poverty, which ties right in with Obama’s failure to lower the unemployment of blacks. It ties in with drugs and it ties in with gun control.

I’m sure poverty and drugs are part of the problem Blaine, but you fail to tie Obama into it with factual information. Again what did he do to cause this problem and why do you think it didn’t exist for decades before Obama?

These cities are not run by republicans; the inner city problems can be laid right at the feet of democrats.

Some are some aren’t and the states have the same some are some aren’t situation Blaine. Once again you put the cities under the spotlight not the states and that is partisan BS instead of logic and truth. Drugs exist outside of the big cities. Poverty exists outside of big cities. Murder and crime exists outside of big cities. When you use per capita data instead of total numbers it puts the problem in perspective. It just doesn’t work for your partisan hatred.


Quit trying to impress your liberal buddies and own up to your own platforms as being faulty.

Show me Blaine. You spout myth and misinformation in a vain attempt to make this a partisan issue. Instead of trying to impress I suggest you provide some factual information.

Of all the things in my post that you could have attacked, you chose the one that you can’t substantiate.

Wow Blaine I did substantiate it was you who rejected the information choosing partisan rhetoric over facts. You didn’t substantiate anything my friend. In fact here is some more information for you to cherry pick.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/28/food-stamp-demographics_n_6771938.html

Posted by: j2t2 at July 22, 2017 11:19 AM
Comment #418501

A great post, but again has devolved into another left/right right/wrong slug fest.

Thanks guys, for another edition of the Saturday Morning Fights brought to you by your friends here at WatchBlog.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2017 12:24 PM
Comment #418503

J2T2 Asked great questions.

“…government providing all the food instead of just providing food stamps…”

National health service would not provide vouchers or health care choice so, to work properly, neither would National Food Service.

j2t2 asks; “( BTW what free market plan compares to SS? Most are rip offs that take your money.)”

Easy question. No free market plan can compete with government subsidies. We know for certain that no free market plan can operate constantly in the red as SS is doing.

Free market retirement plans are usually taxed twice. (I hope I don’t have to explain that for j2t2)

I find it amusing how my Lefty Pals defend government socialism of health care, retirement planning, roads, public services, etc; but not food.

Hmmm…I suspect they are simply “elite food snobs”. They don’t want a bureaucrat telling them what or how much they can eat.


Posted by: Royal Flush at July 22, 2017 1:36 PM
Comment #418506

Well Royal it seems you didn’t take exception to the logical fallacies of your argument. What I find amusing is how you, being the one legged man in this a** kicking contest, continue to grasp at this straw.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 22, 2017 2:29 PM
Comment #418507

Here’s why we don’t have Government food.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamestown,_Virginia#Rising_fortunes_.281610.E2.80.931624.29

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2017 3:02 PM
Comment #418508

I’m done j2t2, as I have proven my point about government socialization administered by unelected bureaucratic decision-makers. You recognize the folly when it comes to food, but can not recognize the same folly with retirement and health care.

Government programs that favor some, at the expense of others, are wrong. Such programs are always introduced as compassionate and self-sustaining. They are neither. Obamacare is just the latest example. In eight short years Obamacare has become a huge drain on taxpayers and our treasury. The pain is being felt acutely by those who work and will soon be felt by those on subsidy.

The original design of Obamacare is working…it was designed to fail.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 22, 2017 3:20 PM
Comment #418510

I told this story a few years ago. It was about 15 years ago that I had to take my wife to the hospital for some minor tests. At the admitting area there were signs written in English and Spanish that said, “if you don’t have insurance, we cannot refuse to treat you”. So the continued lie that the left has promoted for years is that there are people who do not have access to healthcare because they have no insurance. I saw this with my own eyes and I wasn’t in the emergency room; I was in admitting. So the left lied about who has healthcare, and then they lied in order to pass Obamacare which took all the people who had insurance, took it away from them, and forced them to take a useless policy that raised the copayment and the deductible. So the average family paid higher payments and got nothing. The left still talks as if it was a good change for America. Trump was elected because he promised to repeal this useless piece of crap. Not only that, but there were a lot of republicans elected to the congress who promised the same thing.

Now we know that Obamacare is failing. It was doomed to fail and it was meant to fail. The goal was always to steal one sixth of our economy and re-distribute to money to more social programs. SS was meant to do the same thing. It’s simply a slush fund for the congress to use for their pet projects. The old saying “follow the money” holds true here as well. The democrats and republicans can’t help themselves, the promise of so much money is irresistible.

Posted by: Blaine at July 22, 2017 4:37 PM
Comment #418512

My city government almost doubled my water bill a few years back. The overriding reason they had to do so was because cities in surrounding counties were paying the larger amounts.

Last year the city completed the installation of a “Splash Pad” at the local park. All people have to do is hit a button, (that’s anyone who shows up from anywhere) and fresh water comes pouring out of dragons and whales and ducks. Fresh water, free of charge, to play in, for anyone who comes up to it. And my water bill doubled right before they built that thing.

Great optics, right? Well, what do you expect, Democratics have run this city for 50 years. Their voters eat up the free shit and refuse to put 1+1 to get to 2.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2017 4:50 PM
Comment #418514

“We know for certain that no free market plan can operate constantly in the red as SS is doing.”

It is not running in the red unless you think baby boomers drawing on bonds that they purchased for over 30 years with excess FICA taxes in anticipation of their retirement is “running in the red.” That’s like saying a person drawing on an annuity or private savings in retirement is bankrupt. Nonsense.

“Free market retirement plans are usually taxed twice.”

OK, Royal, you explain that to me. I must be pretty stupid. It certainly isn’t true for traditional IRA or 401K plans which are initially funded with pre-tax dollars and then taxed at a person’s ordinary income rate upon distribution. Roth IRAs are funded with post-tax dollars and are not taxed upon distribution at all. Of course, there are tax penalties for early withdrawal but we are talking about retirement age distributions.

I would also add that free market retirement plans come with management and investment fees which advocates of such plans frequently fail to mention.

Posted by: Rich at July 22, 2017 5:26 PM
Comment #418515

The Left uses “fact check” quite a bit, so I will use them to enlighten Rich on the financial solvency of Social Security.

“The fact is, the federal government had to borrow $37 billion last year to finance Social Security, and will need to borrow more this year. The red ink is projected to total well over half a trillion dollars in the coming decade.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued its most recent projections for Social Security’s income and outgo Jan. 26, along with its twice-yearly “Budget and Economic Outlook.” What those numbers show is that Social Security ran a $37 billion deficit last year, is projected to run a $45 billion deficit this year, and more red ink every year thereafter.”

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/democrats-deny-social-securitys-red-ink/

OK Rich, I will explain double taxation on nearly all retirement plans. Does the entity investing or holding your retirement dollars pay taxes on profits? Are your profit not reduced by those taxes? And, when funds are withdrawn you pay taxes again.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 22, 2017 5:45 PM
Comment #418518

“So the continued lie that the left has promoted for years is that there are people who do not have access to healthcare because they have no insurance.”

Under EMTALA, passed during the Reagan administration, hospitals with emergency rooms receiving Medicare are obligated to screen all patients for emergency medical conditions (life or limb threatening) and stabilize such conditions. They are not obligated to treat any conditions not considered a medical emergency or provide follow-up medical care after stabilization.

It is an expensive, inefficient and incomplete alternative. A person may get treated for a diabetic coma but not for the underlying diabetes.

It is a huge burden on hospitals and ultimately for the taxpayer and those with insurance to fund ER care for the uninsured.

Posted by: Rich at July 22, 2017 6:25 PM
Comment #418522

Royal,

Please, I am fully aware that SS is drawing down its special treasury bonds to pay for the baby boomer retirement surge. That was fully anticipated when FICA taxes were raised in 1983 (Greenspan Commission) to purchase such bonds in anticipation of the future shortfall.

The fact that the federal government might have to allocate a portion of general revenue or roll over the debt in the public market to pay for the redemption of SS bonds has little to do with SS solvency per se. A roll over will neither increase or decrease the total debt of the US. It will only change the form of the debt.

In terms of the long term solvency of SS, there are a number of reasonable fixes, i.e., raising the cap, means testing, modest increase in FICA taxes, etc. I remind you that we faced serious problems with SS in 1983 and had the bi-partisan political resolve to solve them.

Your argument on double taxation of private retirement plans is truly specious. It has nothing to do with retirement plans, per se, but would apply to any income derived from a corporate investment in or outside a retirement account. A meaningless and obfuscating consideration when discussing personal taxation of various types of retirement accounts. You are not doubly taxed. Period.

Posted by: Rich at July 22, 2017 7:51 PM
Comment #418526
I’m done j2t2,

About time I was beginning to think you actually though yoy had a leg to stand on Royal…

as I have proven my point about government socialization administered by unelected bureaucratic decision-makers.

But you haven’t Royal. All you have done is ran around in illogical circles setting up one straw man after another. You have exaggerated, compared apples and oranges. The one thing you didn’t do is prove your point.

You recognize the folly when it comes to food, but can not recognize the same folly with retirement and health care.

The only folly I recognized was your wandering through the wilderness of illogical deception and confusing myths and misinformation with facts.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 22, 2017 8:21 PM
Comment #418547

Challenge my statement, j2t2. You can’t!

Why don’t we have government food?

BECAUSE IT WON’T WORK! We’ll all starve to death!

Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2017 7:10 PM
Comment #418549

Look what happened in the Ukraine! The government starved 20 million people to death by selling their food to the rest of the world.

That’s why we don’t have government food.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2017 8:03 PM
Comment #418551

http://holodomorct.org/history.html

This is why we don’t have government food.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2017 8:11 PM
Comment #418552

Do I have to continue?

http://ukrainiangenocide.org/

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2017 9:38 PM
Comment #418553

Do you know the real reason we don’t have government food?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamestown,_Virginia#Rising_fortunes_.281610.E2.80.931624.29

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2017 9:42 PM
Comment #418571

Finally I got through to Rich and he now understands that no free market plan can operate constantly in the red as SS is doing.”

We can hope he can understand “No free market plan can compete with government subsidies. We know for certain that no free market plan can operate constantly in the red as SS is doing.”

j2t2 is hopelessly in love with socialism and is incapable of accepting that SS, Medicare and Medicaid are failing.

However, his denial will not prevent their eventual collapse.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 24, 2017 4:26 PM
Comment #418580
in the future when a few select corporations control the farms, ranches, restaurants and the distribution of food it may be considered but now there is to many sources of food and competition, although the middlemen seem to be making more of a profit than the growers. Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2017 3:29 PM

I’m drinking some mango “juice” right now, “bebida de mango”, which apparently comes from the middle east, through New Jersey and then to a company called Cedar Garden Foods, with various locations in Michigan. Evidently, they don’t grow enough mangoes in Florida or Mexico.

A company called Ocean Industries, A division of the OceanGroup, supplies the containers. They are incorporated in Delaware, surprise surprise, but they’re obviously not manufacturing containers in a complex which has offices for so many other companies. Dover looks nice and prosperous. The containers may have been manufactured in Montreal.

The middlemen are large international corporations. I don’t know who the growers are.

A decade ago, this could have provoked a nice discussion. Now, the response is something like: READING! NOOOOOO! Why do you want to make me read?

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 24, 2017 6:44 PM
Comment #418582

Let’s take a brief look at some false theories by noted scientists and others over the past fifty years. The political Left has used these scares and scams to win elections.

The Population Bomb by Stanford University professor, Paul R. Ehrlich in 1968 postulating that humans would suffer mass starvation in the 1970s and 80s. The world is eating better today than it was in 1968.

Rachel Carson’s book, Silent Spring in 1962 urging the banning of DDT. The National Academy of Sciences concluded in 1965 that ‘in a little more than two decades, DDT has prevented 500 million [human] deaths that would otherwise have been inevitable.’

Peak Oil - Like many Malthusian beliefs, peak oil theory has been promoted by a motivated group of politicians, scientists and laymen who base their conclusions mostly on self-interest.

MMGW - Algore is poised to become the world’s first “carbon billionaire,” profiteering from government policies he supports that would direct billions of dollars to the business ventures he has invested in. He is a hypocritical energy pig.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 24, 2017 7:34 PM
Comment #418587
Finally I got through to Rich and he now understands that no free market plan can operate constantly in the red as SS is doing.”

Well Royal it seems to me Rich wasn’t at all impressed with your misinformation regarding SS so while you are breaking your arm patting yourself on the back I would suggest this diversion from the actual discussion is sad.

We can hope he can understand “No free market plan can compete with government subsidies. We know for certain that no free market plan can operate constantly in the red as SS is doing.”

I thought you said you were done Royal but you continue to babble on about business 101 as if it has a bearing on the issue.

j2t2 is hopelessly in love with socialism and is incapable of accepting that SS, Medicare and Medicaid are failing.

Royal hoipelesly in love with seems to me to be another exaggeration on your part. While it may be hard for you to understand that many of us prefer to go with a plan that works whether it be capitalism or socialism in nature we do., This foolish name calling you use when your argument goes down the tubes is a waste of time .

However, his denial will not prevent their eventual collapse.

Only if conservatives stay in power Royal. Bad government seems to be their forte.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 25, 2017 12:41 AM
Comment #418635
a plan that works whether it be capitalism or socialism in nature we do. Posted by: j2t2 at July 25, 2017 12:41 AM

Well, in this country you have to have capitalism to have socialism. People that live in underdeveloped areas don’t know that much about capitalism, and don’t see the necessity of social programs, even when they benefit from them. They’re always told about theories or government by the plantation owners. In the developed areas, we talk more about reality.

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