Democrats & Liberals Archives

Donald Trump Damages Intelligence Sharing Relationship

Writing for The Washington Post, Greg Miller and Greg Jaffe report:

President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The report was based on anonymous sources. However, other organizations' report similar stories. It remains unknown whether or not Buzzfeed, Reuters and The New York Times used the same anonymous sources as The Washington Post or if this constitutes independent confirmation. Additionally, the report's credibility is further bolstered by White House reaction, which has been carefully worded to not deny the specific allegations being made. Instead, statements by McMaster, Tillerson and tweets this morning from the President himself fail to contradict any specifics reported by Miller & Jaffe. A recent appearance by General McMaster at today's White House Press Briefing likewise failed to contradict any details of the article written by Miller & Jaffe

While the President has the legal right to declassify information whenever he wants, it would be considered treason and a breach of his oath of office if such disclosures were made frivolously and without any strategy in mind. This leads Lawfare to speculate whether impeachment might be on the table if allegations prove true (emphasis mine):

There's thus no reason why Congress couldn't consider a grotesque violation of the President's oath as a standalone basis for impeachment--a high crime and misdemeanor in and of itself. This is particularly plausible in a case like this, where the oath violation involves giving sensitive information to an adversary foreign power. That's getting relatively close to the "treason" language in the impeachment clauses; it's pretty easy to imagine a hybrid impeachment article alleging a violation of the oath in service of a hostile foreign power. So legally speaking, the matter could be very grave for Trump even though there is no criminal exposure.

Also, this story is complicated by the fact that the source of the highly classified information came from a 3rd party (returning to the original Washington Post report):

The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.
The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump's decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump's meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.

I do not know if the President has the same latitude to disclose classified information when that information comes from foreign sources. I wonder whether there are any treaties or other written agreements binding the President in these matter.

Because the intelligence-sharing agreement was not made public previous to this incident, my guess is that the 3rd party is not a close US ally. "Access to the inner workings of the Islamic State" is hard to achieve without recruiting a mole deep within DAESH's leadership. I speculate that the 3rd party here is a Middle Eastern nation with less than optimal relations with the United States. Perhaps it is Iran or a Sunni Muslim state, but I am really just reading the tea leaves and the tea is really murky.

Regardless of the identity of the 3rd party, jeopardizing intelligence sharing agreements is a very bad thing. What's operative here is not what the actual facts are, but whatever the 3rd party believes the facts to be. I have no idea how the 3rd party has handled the situation, but they certainly cannot be glad this has happened.

Now, Greg Miller & Greg Jaffe indicate that the disclosure was related to the recent prohibition of electronic devices on some flights, reporting that "Trump went off script and began describing details of an Islamic State terrorist threat related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft." As some conservative Watchbloggers have pointed out, it does not seem extraordinary for Trump to tell Russia to beware laptops brought aboard commercial flights. After all, these are concerns that have been widely reported in Western Media for weeks as the ban has been put into place. However, Miller & Jaffe make clear that the disclosure of the terrorist threat itself is not the concern here. Rather, Trump provided extra details that implicitly compromise the secrecy regarding how the information was obtained (emphasis mine)

Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State's territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat.
...
The identification of the location was seen as particularly problematic, officials said, because Russia could use that detail to help identify the U.S. ally or intelligence capability involved. Officials said the capability could be useful for other purposes, possibly providing intelligence on Russia's presence in Syria. Moscow would be keenly interested in identifying that source and perhaps disrupting it.

Reading between the lines, it seems that the 3rd party has a mole gathering information about DAESH from the inside. This is how the US discovered that DAESH planned to use laptops to target certain flights. The laptop ban announced weeks ago did not disrupt the mole's cover because there were perhaps hundreds of potential sources of this information. DAESH did not have enough info to kill their rat. However, disclosing the city in which the mole operates certainly narrows things down a bit. Definitely if DAESH only has only a few people operating in said city.

We will likely never know if Russia exploits Trump's disclosure in order to harm the interests America's 3rd party ally. What is certain though is that this ally will be more wary to share things they learn with the United States. If information that could save American lives is withheld from American intelligence in the future as a result of this incident, it will be a terrible tragedy. Americans will be die simply because their President could not keep his mouth shut.

Conservatives, I'd like to remind you that your reaction to this madness will be recorded here for posterity. Think how your words might sound four or five years from now when the dust of the today's controversy has settled. In the summer of 1974, roughly half of Republicans polled still believed that Richard Nixon had no involvement in covering up the White House's role in the Watergate burglary. Please don't be like them, be like Erick Erickson:

I am told that what the President did is actually far worse than what is being reported. The President does not seem to realize or appreciate that his bragging can undermine relationships with our allies and with human intelligence sources. He also does not seem to appreciate that his loose lips can get valuable assets in the field killed.

CODA: I would like to share the excellent interview conducted by Benjamin Wittes and Susan Hennessey last night with former DNI General Counsel Robert Litt. Litt was responsible for a similar degree of damage control after Edward Snowden leaked classified information and defected to Russia. It was eyeopening for me to hear how the IC reacts to an emergency like this.

Posted by Warren Porter at May 16, 2017 11:02 AM
Comments
Comment #416295

In the briefing by McMasters this morning he said:

“The president wasn’t even aware of where this information came from. He wasn’t briefed on the source…”

Apparently now the leak was “appropriate” because the president can basically leak anything he wants.

If this latest version is true, it paints Trump as a reckless person who can not be trusted with classified material- at least, that is the conclusion our allies will reach. There is no other conclusion possible. Our allies just watched Trump share classified information with the Russians, but not them.

He is in way over his head. And that is the charitable interpretation. He is clearly unfit for office.

Trump once called the Intelligence Community “Nazis.” He questioned their competence because of the War in Iraq. To this day he refuses to accept their conclusion about Russian influence on the 2016 election, and will disingenuously suggest it might have been the Chinese.

Obviously, the IC knows a lot about Trump that’s not public knowledge. They see more than the rest of us, and based on what they see, they do not seem to harbor secret affection for him.

They really, really don’t like him.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 1:12 PM
Comment #416296
I speculate that the 3rd party here is a Middle Eastern nation with less than optimal relations with the United States. Perhaps it is Iran or a Sunni Muslim state, but I am really just reading the tea leaves and the tea is really murky.
Or maybe Israel. Posted by: Warren Porter at May 16, 2017 1:45 PM
Comment #416298

*yawn*

I love how this wasn’t an issue when Obama was in office, it really tells a tale, doesn’t it?

“impeach him” You know, if you guys haven’t been shouting this for six months straight… it might get some traction, lol

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 16, 2017 2:07 PM
Comment #416299

RH,

Did Obama disclose jeopardize intelligence sharing relationships by disclosing classified information to Russia?

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 16, 2017 2:09 PM
Comment #416300
it’s pretty easy to imagine a hybrid impeachment article alleging a violation of the oath in service of a hostile foreign power.

The only ones who see Russia as a ‘hostile foreign power’ are the progressives who for decades wanted to normalize relations with Russia, until they enacted some anti-lgbt legislation and ‘invaded Ukraine’ (which is laughable that people still believe this nonsense that has been disproven on many an occasion).

Hillary had a plan, she didn’t like Russia, her state department used taxpayer funds to interfere in Putin’s election, her confidants were complicit in starting a coup on Ukraine completely because of oil. Last time I checked, weren’t progressives against that sort of thing? Obama wanted to keep things nice with Russia, but Hillary won out and here we are today. If she had been elected, we would have already been at war, if you believe what she said during the debates (but who can actually believe anything she says, yeah?)

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 16, 2017 2:11 PM
Comment #416301

Warren, I found your post very interesting. It was filled with “reading between the lines” and began with “anonymous sources”.

Then, despite anything factual or concrete Warren writes; “Conservatives, I’d like to remind you that your reaction to this madness will be recorded here for posterity.”

What “madness”.

Allow me to throw out a possibility. Perhaps President Trump was lying to the Russians to protect sources.

Once again we find our Pals on the Left anxious to believe “anonymous” and disbelieve persons who have taken an oath of office. If “anonymous” is lying no one cares and the story dies. If an official is lying, severe consequences are attached. Yet, our Buddies always believe “anonymous”. Very interesting mindset.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 2:13 PM
Comment #416302
It remains unknown whether or not Buzzfeed, Reuters and The New York Times used the same anonymous sources as The Washington Post or if this constitutes independent confirmation.

Because all we’ve had, for six months, are anonymous sources who we cannot vet or collaborate their story, ensure that the reporters are not reading things into what they said to fit a bias or sell papers, etc. For all we know they could be janitors who were ‘in the room’ but don’t know what any of the technicalities are. In this case, there appears to be some validity, though a lot of people are saying it didn’t happen including the Russian delegation, Trump saying he can do what he wants isn’t an omission not that the news media will consider that, just like the joke he made about the recordings (referencing being wiretapped by ‘Obama’) was taken as him saying that he actually had tapes (omg the headache this is giving me is astounding), but for many of the other reports I’ve seen coming out of the NY Times and WaPo most of it has been gossip and pulled back days later (damage already done, no one reads the pull backs or gives them any credence).

You guys haven’t yet come to the realization that Trump is messing with you and pulling your strings yet, do you? His approval ratings are higher than the news is, or do you not get that yet?

US Journalism is dead, those days are over. It’s time to accept that. We’re back to the times of the “Richmond Republican” and “Des Moines Democrat” except of course that they were actually honest about their biases…

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 16, 2017 2:20 PM
Comment #416303
it would be considered treason and a breach of his oath of office if such disclosures were made frivolously and without any strategy in mind

Please show me where this is written or where there is a precedent for this? I would be interested in it.

And isn’t it treason to give highly classified information to movie directors who are making a movie? Or tell the world about Israel’s nuclear weapons program which until that time had been unknown to the world?

Where were the cries of treason then? Oh yeah, the president then was Obama… LOL

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 16, 2017 2:23 PM
Comment #416304

Ah, the whole “this wasn’t an issue when Obama was in office” thing was just a canard and you move onto different things. Oh well, I’ll play for now:

wanted to normalize relations with Russia

I still favor normalized relations with Russia. The problem is there is a right way and a wrong way of doing it. Offering a symbolic overture with a gimmick reset button is okay. Disclosing precious intelligence and colluding to influence an American election are not. Normalized relations with Russia are a laudable goal, but they cannot come at the expense of significant American interests.

her confidants were complicit in starting a coup on Ukraine completely because of oil
Firstly, I want to remind you that this is based upon intelligence obtained and released by the Russian government. It is not from a neutral or pro-American source.

Secondly, the “because of oil” phrase is complete poppycock. Ukraine has no major oil reserves. I have no idea where you got such nonsense.

Thirdly:

Last time I checked, weren’t progressives against that sort of thing

I cannot recall a time progressives opposed a US-backed coups overseas unless said coup led to an authoritarian or otherwise oppressive regime. Petro Poroshenko may not be a saint but it is absurd to put him in the same league as Shah Pahlavi, Augusto Pinochet, or any of the much-criticized dictators allied with the United States during the Cold War.

If she had been elected, we would have already been at war, if you believe what she said during the debates (but who can actually believe anything she says, yeah?)

I didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton and she is not President. So what she would’ve done is not terribly material to today’s controversy.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 16, 2017 2:26 PM
Comment #416305
Did Obama disclose jeopardize intelligence sharing relationships by disclosing classified information to Russia?

Worse, in a fit of pique, he disclosed long held information about the details of Israel’s nuclear weapons program… do you not get how much MORE of an issue that is?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-administration-uses-old-pentagon-foia-to-out-israels-nukes/article/2562078

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 16, 2017 2:27 PM
Comment #416306

“Trump and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov “reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation,” McMaster, who was present at the meeting, said. “At no time, at no time, were intelligence sources or methods discussed.”

Trump also did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known, he said, noting Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Deputy National Security Adviser Dina Powell, who also were present, have said the same thing.

“Their on-the-record accounts should outweigh those of anonymous sources,” he said, referencing the Post report that did not name its sources.

“I was in the room; it didn’t happen,” McMaster said, before turning to walk back into the White House, ignoring shouted questions from the press.”

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/classified-information-ISIS-Oval-Office/2017/05/15/id/790275/?ns_mail_uid=5919126&ns_mail_job=1731110_05152017&s=al&dkt_nbr=gmjxiucv

Go ahead Warren, call McMaster, Tillerson and Powell all liars.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 2:28 PM
Comment #416307

WP,
That article on Erickson (from Red State) was interesting. He claims to know one of the sources, and that source is very pro-Trump.

“Erickson wrote that people close to the president find him too insecure to take constructive criticism as anything other than a personal attack. So sources have gone to the media in the hopes that “the intense blowback” may force Trump to recognize his errors.”

In other words, this amounted to a brush back, a high and inside fastball from his own teammate. It is a warning to Trump not to stray off script in meetings with foreign dignitaries because this is the only way to get his attention. Not sure I buy it, but it is an interesting explanation.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 2:30 PM
Comment #416308
the whole “this wasn’t an issue when Obama was in office” thing was just a canard and you move onto different things.

Hang on, that’s why the left is spreading the links of Trump talking about people who are careless with classified information they don’t have authority to declassify? Good, I can ignore all of that then, since you think it’s just a ‘canard’ to point out hypocrisy.

Disclosing precious intelligence and colluding to influence an American election are not.

Where’s your evidence that Trump colluded to influence an election Warren? If we are making up things I can do that too, it’s easy! Hell, just invent a conspiracy and let it fly… we all used to poo poo conspiracy theories but they’ve become the mainstream now.

Firstly, I want to remind you that this is based upon intelligence obtained and released by the Russian government.

Um, no it wasn’t… Just because you don’t look into things and know what is going on doesn’t mean I do.

Hell, there was a phone call that got them in hot water that was released, are we suggesting that was ‘staged’ as well? *smh*

Secondly, the “because of oil” phrase is complete poppycock. Ukraine has no major oil reserves. I have no idea where you got such nonsense.

Do you even KNOW why the push to include the Ukraine into the EU was there for? Do you understand pipelines and flow of natural gas and oil to the European states? If you don’t know this information, quit acting like you are some authority… do some research before calling things ‘poppycock’.

So what she would’ve done is not terribly material to today’s controversy.

More naievety, that you don’t get that everything going on right now is a result of her plans she put into place to identify Russia as a ‘bad actor’, the re-emergence of the Evil Empire. With as much weaving together of inane conspiracy theories that is being done to Trump, it’s amazing how people turn a blind eye to globalists who are manipulating things on a world stage using actors such as the OUNb to fulfill their stated goals.

Tell me something, Warren… if Russia wanted to take over Crimea, hell Ukraine, wouldn’t it have done so easily in like a day? The Ukraine officials think that which is why THEY say that there were no Russian troops in their country, in addition to people who were there and did the checking to see… It’s almost like people are willfully being ignorant.

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 16, 2017 2:39 PM
Comment #416309
In late 2014, I personally did the only invasive passport and weapons checks that I know of during the Ukrainian civil war. I spent days looking for the Russian army every major publication said were attacking Ukraine. The keyword  Cyber Security industry leader Alperovitch used is “evidently.” Crowdstrike noted that in late 2014, there were 10,000 Russian forces in the region.

When I did the passport and weapons check, it was under the condition there would be no telephone calls. We went where I wanted to go. We stopped when I said to stop. I checked the documents and the weapons with no obstacles. The weapons check was important because Ukraine was stating that Russia was giving Donbass modern weapons at the time. Each weapon is stamped with a manufacture date. The results are in the articles above.

The government in Kiev agreed with my findings throughout 2014 and 2015. There were and are no Russian troops fighting in Donbass regardless of what Mr. Alperovitch asserts. There are some Russian volunteers which I have covered in detail.

Based on my findings which the CIA would call hard evidence, almost all the fighters had Ukrainian passports. There are volunteers from other countries. In Debaltsevo today, I would question Alperovitch’s  assertion of Russian troops based on the fact the passports will be Ukrainian and reflect my earlier findings. There is no possibly, could be, might be, about it.

The SBU, Olexander Turchinov, and the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense all agree that Crowdstrike is dead wrong in this assessment. Although subtitles aren’t on it, the former Commandant of Ukrainian Army Headquarters thanks God Russia never invaded or Ukraine would have been in deep trouble.

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 16, 2017 2:40 PM
Comment #416312

Still using that Russian Troll?

So when Global Research publishes an article asking whether the incident at the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant was a “catastrophe,” there is a palpable credibility gap. And when its author, claiming to be an American in Ukraine named “George Eliason,” states that he “was contacted through a second party after the officially reported incident that a radiation spike was observed in Crimea,” something is off. Eliason identifies the source of some more “leaked documents” he cites as an “Anonymous-style cyber militia,” linking to the Facebook page of a group of Russian and East Ukrainian hackers who call themselves the “Novorossiya cyber riot.” As for those documents, Eliason must have contacted the cyber-militia directly, because they haven’t made any public posts online since December.

All of this was unusual enough to warrant further investigation into George Eliason’s online identity. A search for his name online turns up social media accounts on Twitter and VK, a popular social media website in Russia. The clunky phrasing of his English posts, especially in comparison to their pristine Russian, suggests that their author is a native Russian speaker. The only personally identifying information displayed on his VK profile asserts that at some point he attended the Middlesex School outside of Boston. When I asked if they had any record of him, Middlesex said they had none whatsoever.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 16, 2017 2:53 PM
Comment #416313

RF,

Perhaps President Trump was lying to the Russians to protect sources.

I had the same thought myself last night, that this might all be one massive false flag operation intended to induce paranoia among DAESH. It certainly would be fun to see those thugs executing each other in a wild goose chase to find a mole that does not exist.

That said, my gut tells me this is implausible. The aforementioned scenario is just my brain’s feeble to attempt to somehow make sense of behavior that can only be described as madness. Or more likely, gross incompetence.

Once again we find our Pals on the Left anxious to believe “anonymous” and disbelieve persons who have taken an oath of office. If “anonymous” is lying no one cares and the story dies. If an official is lying, severe consequences are attached. Yet, our Buddies always believe “anonymous”. Very interesting mindset.

Yes, it is an extraordinary testament to how the current administration is totally bereft of all credibility. Trump and his sycophants have zero admiration or respect for the Constitution or nation they swore to protect. Their “oaths” are completely bankrupt at this point.

McMaster, Tillerson and Powell
I don’t consider McMaster or Tillerson to be sycophants, but I do notice how none of their statements actually contradict the reporting done by Miller & Jaffe. Again and again, we are told Trump did not explicitly discuss intelligence sources or methods. That is exactly what Miller & Jaffe’s sources said. Again and again, we are told Trump discussed recent DAESH threats. That is exactly what Miller & Jaffe’s sources say. Notably absent from these on the record statements are any categorical denials that Trump may have mentioned the city integral to the obtaining the intelligence, thereby jeopardizing the trust between the USA and our 3rd party partner:
McMaster implicitly said yes to a question about whether the president shared the name of the city from which the ISIS threat was detected – he claimed the location was publicly available and obvious information of sources of ISIS’s threat. The Washington Post reported that by revealing the name of this city, Trump may have put the sources and methods used to obtain the intelligence at risk.

~source

RH,

Please show me where this is written or where there is a precedent for this

I don’t believe we have ever had genuine treason occur in the Oval Office before.

And isn’t it treason to give highly classified information to movie directors who are making a movie? Or tell the world about Israel’s nuclear weapons program which until that time had been unknown to the world?

Neither of these is comparable to what allegedly occurred last week with Trump. The former was investigated and resolved in the normal manner without any lasting consequences. I don’t think the Israelis care about a declassified DoD document from 30 years ago as much as they do about an agent actively on the ground in DAESH territory.

Phx8,

In other words, this amounted to a brush back, a high and inside fastball from his own teammate. It is a warning to Trump not to stray off script in meetings with foreign dignitaries because this is the only way to get his attention. Not sure I buy it, but it is an interesting explanation.

I don’t know why you don’t buy this. The Trump administration has leaks like a sieve for reason. This didn’t happen under Obama, if you recall. People working for Trump do not trust the leader at the top to get the job done. The normal channels of communication are stymied for reasons unknown to us. The only way to communicate to Trump that he needs to change his behavior is to leak to the press.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 16, 2017 3:19 PM
Comment #416314

There have always been leaks in administrations, and they have always driven presidents crazy, but you’re right, this is on a whole new level.

There have been numerous articles on how Trump gets his information. They are NOT encouraging. A lot of his information comes from FOX. Apparently he can also be swayed by simply leaving articles on his desk for him to find. (One aid, K.T. McFarland, reportedly left an internet hoax Time Magazine cover, supposedly from the 70’s, about Global Cooling. She has been sent to Singapore!)

Trump’s decision making can be impulsive. He constantly changes his story, insists his aids present it to the public, and then Trump changes his story shortly afterwards, thereby destroying the credibility of himself and his aids. It’s a terrible pattern.

The latest example of undermining an aid is with McMaster. He did a better job than most of attempting to parse his way through the first version about the leak of classified information with a denial, but that story was DOA. He denied something no one was suggesting happened in the first place. Everyone noticed. People must have a lot of respect for him because they aren’t holding him responsible for trying to tap dance past yet another mess.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 3:33 PM
Comment #416315
you think it’s just a ‘canard’ to point out hypocrisy.

Pointing out hypocrisy is no canard. But false equivalence is.

Where’s your evidence that Trump colluded to influence an election Warren?

I didn’t say Trump colluded to influence an election. I said that colluding to influence an election is the wrong way to curry favor with Russia. I patiently wait for all relevant investigation to reach their end. In the meantime, I draw no conclusion.

Um, no it wasn’t… Just because you don’t look into things and know what is going on doesn’t mean I do.
The Nuland phone call was recorded and released by Russian intelligence. Of course, Russia makes sure to use Western cutouts to hide their handiwork, but it doesn’t make a difference to me.
Do you even KNOW why the push to include the Ukraine into the EU was there for? Do you understand pipelines and flow of natural gas and oil to the European states? If you don’t know this information, quit acting like you are some authority… do some research before calling things ‘poppycock’.
Natural Gas != Oil. And the issue with those gas pipelines is a bit more complex than you purport. Stealing Ukraine away from the Russian orbit doesn’t actually give Europe Russia’s gas. They still have to buy it from Putin.
if Russia wanted to take over Crimea, hell Ukraine, wouldn’t it have done so easily in like a day

If Russia wanted to conquer Ukraine overtly, yes it could be done much more quickly. But there are many reasons for them to keep this covert, or at least give it the veneer of covertness. They try hard to make the conflict in Donbass & Crimea an internal thing, and you are happy to regurgitate the associated propaganda, chapter and verse.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 16, 2017 3:37 PM
Comment #416316

The Ukraine has a Russian population of 17%. That is the portion occupied by pro-Russian separatists.

Some of the Baltic countries have Russian populations of 25%. That is why they are so worried about Trump- they are afraid he will not honor his NATO obligations, especially if Russia conquers indirectly, by proxy, as it did in eastern Ukraine.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 3:45 PM
Comment #416317

Warren writes; “Yes, it is an extraordinary testament to how the current administration is totally bereft of all credibility.”

It is interesting how Warren chooses to call all three high administration officials (in the room with Trump and the Russian) liars. It is also interesting, and of course another lie, that the administration is totally bereft of all credibility. Care to “factualize” that one Warren?

Sadly, Warren has become totally “bereft of all credibility” himself.

Warren has now revealed that he “reads between the lines, looks at the tea leaves, and now…relies on his “gut”. And, of course, places great confidence in unknown sources.

Warren is so bold as to write; “Their “oaths” are completely bankrupt at this point.”

You Sir, are morally bankrupt. You Sir, are contemptible. You Sir, are a cancer on America. You Sir, are not worthy of breathing the air of freedom found in our Constitutional Republic. You Sir, are inhabited by the ghosts of past dictators and other slime.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 3:46 PM
Comment #416318

The only thing that is between the lines is blank white paper. There is no writing to read between the lines. You make up things by reading between the lines, Warped

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 16, 2017 4:16 PM
Comment #416319

Strong words, Royal Flush. Strong words indeed. And yet, not an iota to back them up. Here, I write in steadfast support for the United States, its institutions and its Constitutions. Rather than join the ranks of patriots, you choose to wallow in the debris of Russian propaganda, misinformation and lies.

It fascinates me to read opinions penned by Republicans 44 years ago during the investigation into Watergate. It definitely demonstrates to me the unbelievable flexibility of the human mind. People are capable of stretching and twisting the information they receive in the most remarkable of ways. Cognitive dissonance is truly one of the most powerful forces of the universe. I hope you remember this when you make your statements. What may sound nice and trite in the moment may look profoundly embarrassing in the future.

Go ahead and tell yourself that reasonable doubt remains regarding the Trump administration’s alleged misdeeds and you would be right. But remember the words of a great American leader, “Reality has a way of asserting itself”. You can only take solace in the murky depths of obfuscation and confusion for so long. Ultimately, the truth sets us all free and we will all see it for ourselves.

Anyway, I have to bid you adieu for the time being. I have some work to do tonight. You see, some of us have to labor for our meals instead of sucking from the government’s teat.

Phx8,

There have been numerous articles on how Trump gets his information.

I’m more concerned about the information that Trump isn’t receiving. As per today’s New York Times:

In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.

A Commander-in-Chief cannot lead on the basis of a single page of bullet points. Obama was notable for spending hours dissecting detailed reports in his quarters. Even Bush 43 had the gumption to engage his intelligence officials verbally with thoughtful questions and deep conversation. Trump doesn’t seem interested in sacrificing his precious golf time in order to actually learn the information he needs to lead.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 16, 2017 4:16 PM
Comment #416320

RF,
The administration has no credibility because they keep lying. Trump sends out his people with a story, and then Trump publicly changes his story, leaving everyone out there to hang. Trump did this to Spicer, Sanders, Conway, Pence, Rosenstein, and Sessions last week with the Comey firing.

McMasters, Tillerson, and Powell were misleading in their denial about the classified information to the Russians. McMasters said there was no compromise of classified sources and methods. That is true. But that was not what the WaPo article said was compromised in the first place. It was a carefully parsed, kind of a non-denial denial, and it did not fool anyone.

Well… Maybe one person.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 4:18 PM
Comment #416321

My Liberal Pal writes the usual bullshit. “Here, I write in steadfast support for the United States, its institutions and its Constitutions. “

Warren; giggling up his sophomore sleeve vilely writes this about our duly confirmed cabinet (and other high national officials); “Trump and his sycophants have zero admiration or respect for the Constitution or nation they swore to protect. Their “oaths” are completely bankrupt at this point.”

Warren may slander our elected and duly authorized officials without lawful penalty. Only his soul knows the dark place his mind now inhabits. He is in good company with the vile ghosts of past tyrants who despised our Constitutional Republic.

He wrote; “People are capable of stretching and twisting the information they receive in the most remarkable of ways.”

Yes Warren, and we can be assured you will swallow, believe and repeat all of it.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 4:40 PM
Comment #416322

I wonder if my Pals on the Left have noticed the Right’s lack of criticism of the Free Press. We actually believe in the Constitution and rule of law.

Our Lefty Pal Warren shows his clear hatred of the Constitution and those sworn to protect and defend it.

He and his fellow devil followers are engaged in bringing down our Republic and the individual freedom and respect for law that Americans have cherished since our founding. As the devil devotees take to the streets to harangue, abuse, and actually harm those with which they disagree, we will fight them with truth and justice.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 4:50 PM
Comment #416323

Who remembers this headline.

Congress: Cuba to Share Critical U.S. Intel With Iranian Spies

“”The director of national intelligence, General James R. Clapper, testified in February 2016 that the Castro dictatorship remained an espionage threat at the level of Iran, behind only China and Russia,” Diaz-Balart added. “Under these circumstances, President Obama’s directive to encourage intelligence sharing with the Castro regime is reckless, dangerous, and contrary to U.S. national security interests.”

“The administration tried to bury it under enthusiasm for easing restrictions on the rum and cigars American tourists can buy from Fidel and Raul Castro, but the reality is the Castros are aggressively pursuing a closer relationship with Iran, the mullahs just refinanced Cuba’s debt with the assets they got from the president’s nuclear deal, and Cuba’s close ally, Venezuelan strongman Nicolas Maduro, visited Iran this week,” Coates said. “Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin is re-establishing Russian intelligence assets in Cuba 90 miles from the United States.”

“What possible confidence can we have that anything we share with the Castros won’t immediately be telegraphed to Tehran and Moscow? This simply makes no sense,” Coates added.”

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/congress-cuba-share-critical-u-s-intel-iranian-spies/

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 5:23 PM
Comment #416324

It just keeps getting worse.

Today, the NYT reports Comey wrote a memo- Trump requested the FBI drop the Flynn investigation.

The White House denies it.

Comey has a history of documenting everything, and being absolutely accurate in what he wrote.

The White House has no credibility whatsoever.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 5:57 PM
Comment #416325

Nice try phx8. Sadly for you, no one will take your unattractive, and poorly presented, bait; and bother responding.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 6:12 PM
Comment #416326

With all the crap that Comet has pulled last year and his having to go back and clarify his testimony before Congress, it wouldn’t surprise me that the latest nail in Trump’s presidency that this might be retribution and pay back for his being fired. As far as the N. Y. Times I wouldn’t trust anything they put in print. The question I have is why all these scandals go to liberal outlets, seems to me it brings to question if this is just a way to hurt Trump.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 16, 2017 6:43 PM
Comment #416327

That’s Comey not comet. Dang spell check.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 16, 2017 6:44 PM
Comment #416328

Shall we take a look at all the environmental hyperbole used by the Left to gain headlines and followers over the past thirty years or so?

Every single neurotic belief was swallowed by the lemmings on the Left. We see much the same delivery system of scare tactics being practice today against President Trump and those on the Right.

I find it strange that there is no mention of MMGW any more which was called by the Left, the greatest peril facing the world.

“Hoodwinking Americans is part of the environmentalist agenda. Environmental activist Stephen Schneider told Discover magazine in 1989: “We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. … Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.” In 1988, then-Sen. Timothy Wirth, D-Colo., said: “We’ve got to … try to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong … we will be doing the right thing anyway in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.”

Americans have paid a steep price for buying into environmental deception and lies.”

https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2017/04/26/environmentalists-are-dead-wrong-n2317342

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 16, 2017 7:14 PM
Comment #416329

The Comey memos are unclassified. Congress can subpoena them. In any event, we will be certain to see them eventually. No Republicans seem willing to publicly defend Trump or deny the memos. Everyone knows Comey’s reputation for writing everything down. The GOP wants a closed door hearing, but Director Comey has refused. He will testify, but only in a public setting.

Trump has made himself vulnerable to obstruction of justice charges and impeachment.

Personally, I would not want to see impeachment based only a memo detailing a conversation, even in a case where Comey is almost certainly telling the truth, and Trump is almost certainly lying. But Trump is unquestionably on very dangerous ground.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 8:03 PM
Comment #416330

Royal Flush-
What you have here is corruption, and you’ve allowed it to pervade your party. This whole Anti-GW thing you got going? It’s by the same people who supported the Cigarette industry for decades. Why? Because they were paid to.

What do you call it when an industry buys propaganda and legal manipulation of the system to serve their interests? Corruption. Every barrier to that corruption of the system, you’ve knocked down.

And why? Because you get the power to do what you think is right. Even though it comes at the cost, often enough, of even knowing what right is, or at least our best approximation.

It extends to what’s happening here. Republicans have created an inherently corrupt arm of the media, coopted from the get-go, for one purpose: perpetuating Republican Power.

Only now, it’s got competing interests going. Do we support Trump, despite the fact he keeps running over somewhat acceptable explanations with his tweets and interviews? Do we oppose Trump, and take the hit with all the folks he’s popular with?

Folks like you. Folks who lash out at other people with the most vile of accusations, apropos of nothing else than believing far more credible and consistent reports of wrongdoing, rather than the millionth paranoid pronouncement that a corroborated, testable story is fake news.

Look, if you can’t admit you picked a lousy candidate, or that somebody was lousy to start with, you’ll end up running into this crap over and over again.

Right now, Israel is likely hesitant to share information with us. If all it takes is one ego-driven meeting with the Russians to have Trump spilling not only our secrets, but their secrets, who the hell will trust us? What remedy does our intelligence community have for a system that leaks at the top, where no leaks can be punished, save by removal from office?

It’s time to stop minimizing, stop making excuses. It seems like the only lessons Republicans have learned from years of scandal has been stonewall and obstruct. It’s time to learn some humility and some respect for the rule of law.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 16, 2017 8:19 PM
Comment #416331

Phx8, there may be 2 wrong doings here 1) If Trump did ask what is in the memo and 2) Comey should have told Trump the question was improper and Comey should have told his supervisor or one of the congressional oversight committees. He sat on this for at least 3 months and then it was leaked to the N. Y. Times, that is not the way it should have happened and you and the rest of the lefties should be questioning this especially if it came from unnamed sources.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 16, 2017 8:20 PM
Comment #416332

Stephen, You have no room to talk about vile accusations with your hatred of Trump and Republicans. You have a superior attitude and think every one should agree with your politics.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 16, 2017 8:24 PM
Comment #416333

By the way Stephen, the only crime that was committed was by the guy who leaked what was allegedly said to the Russian dignitaries.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 16, 2017 8:27 PM
Comment #416334

KAP,
The leak that matters is the one by Trump. So yes, he has the right to reveal US secrets to the Russians without planning ahead and without consulting anyone.

Personally, I am extremely uncomfortable with that. A president who gives classified information to our adversaries needs to be removed from office as soon as possible.

Director Comey has agreed to testify in public before the Senate Judiciary Committee. I believe it is the sub-committee. Don’t know if they have set a date yet. So we will see why Comey did not immediately resign when Trump asked him to let Flynn go. I’ve heard reports, but would like to hear it from him.

Posted by: phx8 at May 16, 2017 10:04 PM
Comment #416335

phx8, It depends if the adversary is fighting the same enemy. Information like fighting or an enemy planning on mass killings such as with a Laptop on a plane may prove beneficial to both sides. Besides I heard in a news segment that Russia already knew what was going on. I’m sure Russia has their own operatives collecting the same classified material as we or Israel are. So the only one who actually committed a crime is the person who leaked the info, and I doubt it was Trump.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 16, 2017 10:25 PM
Comment #416336

Rich KAPitan-
Let me put it to you very plainly: that wonderful source that gave us that wonderful information may already be dead because Trump opened his big mouth.

Not only that, but we burned the Israeli intelligence service. The intelligence wasn’t just about the data that had been shared publically, but details like where this guy was, what city he was in. That could narrow things down enough to allow him to be targeted.

That’s not just losing intelligence now, but for years to come.

You guys talk about the leaks being the crime, but that’s a red herring. We’re seeing a persistent security hazard out of the Trump Administration, a persistent contempt for the rule of law. When those who are sworn to uphold the law and defend us fail at that job, sometimes leaking is the lesser of two evils.

I’m not for indiscriminate leaks. I’m proud the press didn’t leak the critical info about location. But Trump spouted that info within earshot of the Russian Media, and by doing so did two things: one, he insured it would all get out, stupid enough to be sure, but two, he insured that when they reported it, IT WOULD BE DECLASSIFIED AS A RESULT!

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 16, 2017 11:20 PM
Comment #416338
I wonder if my Pals on the Left have noticed the Right’s lack of criticism of the Free Press. We actually believe in the Constitution and rule of law.

So…ah..Royal …..have you been drinking alcohol and taking meds? Or living on another planet? Trump has been criticizing the press for reporting the facts and asking questions of his staff since the day he took office. Hannity has..well here is the link-


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/sean-hannity-trump-media-access-231798

The question I have is why all these scandals go to liberal outlets, seems to me it brings to question if this is just a way to hurt Trump.

Wow that is a tough one KAP. I would venture a guess it is because conservative outlets do not want to bother their audience with scandals as they seem to be covering for him and blaming the media for Trumps problems. I mean would you believe anything that would take the shine off the Trump apple? Or would you get all pithy and stop looking at that particular outlet? I would suggest that rather than questioning whether this is a means to hurt Trump you should be questioning the media outlets you get your info from on why they refuse to report on these issues.


Posted by: j2t2 at May 17, 2017 12:00 AM
Comment #416339

J2, Trump has his own problems of his own making. He don’t need help from democrats to aide in his screw ups. The Russian problems are all but a dead horse. The Comey problem, is 2 fold he should have told Trump his asking to drop the Flynn case, if that is true, was inappropriate and he should have went to his supervisor or the congressional oversight committees. By letting the N. Y. Times report on his supposed memo he also broke the law.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 17, 2017 12:22 AM
Comment #416341

Now Stephen, are you for certain that Trump himself leaked the Intel. Or was it some disgruntled Intel agent? It is amazing that the WaPo got that intelligence and it is also amazing that only liberal media gets all the juicy tid bits of the Trump admin. Like today the N. Y. Times reported on Comey’s memo that should have been given to his supervisor or the congressional oversight committees. Stephen I suggest you quit reading those grocery store tabloids. Your party has really been screwing themselves the way they have been since Jan. 20th.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 17, 2017 12:32 AM
Comment #416343
J2, Trump has his own problems of his own making. He don’t need help from democrats to aide in his screw ups.

No he doesn’t need any help that is for sure. I wonder why you guys on the right get so PC when dems stand aside and let Trump screw things up himself.

The Russian problems are all but a dead horse.
With a repub led Congress and Comey out it seems Trump has scared off enough people that this is correct. Despite Royal trying to tell us conservatives and the rule of law are birds of a feather it seems not all conservatives feel that way, as they flip off the press for asking about this issue.

Here are a couple of links that explain why the real news is on the liberal outlets and the fake news is on the conservative outlets.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/heres-fox-news-responded-trumps-131156651.html


http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-response-claims-of-wikileaks-contact/index.html

Posted by: j2t2 at May 17, 2017 2:12 AM
Comment #416345

“The question I have is why all these scandals go to liberal outlets, seems to me it brings to question if this is just a way to hurt Trump.”

KAP, it is a coordinated effort by extremists to take down a sitting US President. They don’t agree with him politically so he must be taken out at any cost.
That is why everything is based on hearsay, unnamed sources and conspiracy theories. That is why they cannot wait for facts, or debate them.
The blue side on here reads like a freaking Bigfoot hunter site nowadays. It has been very disheartening to watch.

The damage that they are doing to the country is on a much greater scale than even their Russian conspiracy theory would be IF it were found to be true.

This isn’t an imaginary ‘attack on western democracy,’ it’s an actual full out assault on our Republic, and it’s not going to end well.

Posted by: kctim at May 17, 2017 8:49 AM
Comment #416347

Kctim, I agree with you whole heartedly. The Democrats are spreading a lot of smoke but no fire. I do have to say though Trump needs to listen more to his handlers especially those privy to the D. C. Workings.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 17, 2017 9:57 AM
Comment #416348

KAP,

Indeed they are, just they are doing so on a much larger and dangerous scale. Watching them doing exactly what they are trying to claim Trump and Russia did is infuriating. Pretending unnamed sources and assumptions to be fact. The illegal leaking. Calling for impeachment. It’s pitiful.
The fact that they are our fellow Americans, makes it all the more worse.

Trump needs to do more than listen, he needs to stop flying by the seat of his pants and bear down and learn the job. I know they didn’t elect him to be the normal politician, and the constant ridiculous attacks by the leftists are preventing him from learning the job as other President’s have been able to do, but it’s totally on him to learn the politics and diplomacy of the position.

Posted by: kctim at May 17, 2017 10:40 AM
Comment #416349

Exactly kc.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 17, 2017 11:53 AM
Comment #416350

Richard Kapitan-
If you pay attention, they’re looking at things like Manafort’s financials. Don’t confuse a placid outward appearance for a lack of substance.

As for what Trump did, and Comey’s response? First, it’s only clear cut now. Trump might be able to argue that he was just trying to be nice for his friend, just didn’t understand the implications (after all, he’s not a lawyer) It’s the firing that makes this harsher in hindsight.

As for whether I’m certain that Trump leaked the info?

We have agreement on this from the Administration itself, which justified his provision of the information on both national security grounds and Trump’s power to declassify information at will. We have additional backup from the WaPo article and the TASS publication. Three different independent sources backing the same conclusion.

As for why the “liberal media” gets the scoops? Could be because the Conservative media wouldn’t publish stuff damaging to the President. They may not only sit on it, but even report those who told them to the Trump Administration. Not great incentives for people wanting to get their story out.

As for Grocery Store tabloids, the irony is, if Trump was doing as well as they claim, he’d be in much, much better shape. Maybe it’s you who needs to quit reading them.

kctim-
You’re the ones assaulting our Democracy, undermining our checks and balance, because you have no patience with institutions and laws that tell you no. That’s why you like Trump, unfortunately. But that’s also why Trump is flailing, running off a cliff on fire like Denethor.

You folks are so focused on LEAKING as being the crime. You don’t pay attention to what’s being leaked, or what’s being corroborated. You think, declaring political war on anybody and everybody who doesn’t bend a knee to you, that you would expects some blowback, especially from people who honestly believe different from you, and see your destructive aims as themselves a threat to the nation they know and love.

You don’t really know Americans if you think telling them to sit down and shut up will actually work. It doesn’t. It ticks them off. I don’t have to submit. Subjects have to submit. I don’t have to be loyal to my President. When I pledged allegiance, I pledged allegiance to the symbol of a Republic, not to Bush, Clinton, Obama, much less Trump.

We don’t need single saviors, heroic politicians who somehow save us all. That’s ignorance of history boiling away all but the most prominent figures of the complex beast that is our government, and our system of government.

Americans will save themselves, or they won’t. One way they won’t save themselves is by giving in to the false promise of the Great Leader, of using authoritarian control to bend the wills of all the rest of the people towards right thinking.

Destroying the “liberal” media, for example, will only leave you with those useless sycophants on the right, who keep on excusing and obfuscating the corruption that even Republicans and conservatives despise. The founders didn’t work to blend or batter their citizens into a grey goo of objectivity. They recognized that it wasn’t a crime to have an independent viewpoint, while also recognizing that biases in that viewpoint could pull the orbit of the government into an eccentric and unstable path.

So what they did was create a system that would pit all these special interests against one another, competitively wringing the energy out of them in favor of those places where most people would agree, where consensus would support government action.

Today’s conservatives have been brought up with far too selfish and competitive a sensibility. It hinders their ability to work together, much less reach across the aisle. Problem is, the Constitution require them to do much of that to actually get laws passed, budgets passed, among other things.

The Democrats are under no obligation to make it easier for Trump and his people. They are under no obligation to disbelieve the charges against Trump. You’re thinking, “They should stop bothering Trump about Russia,” and “They should lock Hillary up because I know she’s guilty.” but aren’t acknowledging that there’s a whole system built around independence of law enforcement from those in political power, and also around preventing unscrupulous politicians (or even misguided principled ones) from using the criminal justice system to jail and punish the innocent, much less their political rivals.

As for Trump learning his job? Trump is the first President to lack either previous government position or military experience. Worse yet, if the reports are true, the guy is insanely unprepared to learn anything. He’s not the learning type. He’s the arrogantly wade in thinking you know everything type. The signs of this were there, but you pushed them aside, trying to get what you wanted.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 17, 2017 12:02 PM
Comment #416352
it is a coordinated effort by extremists to take down a sitting US President. They don’t agree with him politically so he must be taken out at any cost.

Propaganda 101 by Joseph Goebbels
2. Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.

These “liberal” sites are the only sites that actually do news. The conservatives site are nothing more than Trumpapologists sites. They are the real problem.

That is why everything is based on hearsay, unnamed sources and conspiracy theories. That is why they cannot wait for facts, or debate them.

2. Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.

IT was conservatives who refused to let facts and truth get in the way of Trump and his propaganda machine. It was Trumps team who supported “alternative facts” or as we say outright lies. It was Trumps that used fake news.

The blue side on here reads like a freaking Bigfoot hunter site nowadays. It has been very disheartening to watch.

Propaganda 101 by Joseph Goebbels- 3. Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will.

And the red side on WB reads like a politically correct Trumpapologist site, as usual. Look at Royals pathetic lies in this thread attacking those who dare to dissent.

The damage that they are doing to the country is on a much greater scale than even their Russian conspiracy theory would be IF it were found to be true.

Says the red team that forgets their leader is the one that is actually doing the damage, or draining the swamp with the big lies. Or as Goebbels says 1. “If you tell a lie big enough, and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”

This isn’t an imaginary ‘attack on western democracy,’ it’s an actual full out assault on our Republic, and it’s not going to end well.

Or as Goebbels says 1. “If you tell a lie big enough, and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”

The fact is it is Trump that ran on his record, yeah you fell for it, and told his apologists that he is the full on assault on our Republic. Or as he puts it “Make America great again”.
Remember he has done this with his choices of administration and cabinet positions, with his rhetoric, his poor leadership,his threats and his insults. His waffling and backtracking, with his lies and tweets and with his choices. He is the one who is attacking the free press. Now it seems he has even started down the voter suppression road with the extremist Kobach.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 17, 2017 12:12 PM
Comment #416356

Stephen, The difference between liberal media and conservative media is the conservative media will publish the story but will wait for the facts before they do. Liberals will publish it before all the facts are in. You democrats are the same way your guilty until proven innocent. I have seen you do that many times in my many years reading and posting on W. B. Not only you but other liberals here are guilty.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 17, 2017 12:38 PM
Comment #416360

Stephen,

Once again, you are only arguing left-wing talking-points with yourself.

Asking for actual facts is not in any way “undermining our checks and balances.” It doesn’t mean that I don’t want actual facts and any investigation as a result of them to be dismissed, either.
I’m not sure I have stated any “like” or dislike of Trump.

I also don’t remember talking about the ‘leaking.’ I don’t really pay that much attention to it because so far its been nothing but unnamed sources and assumptions.
And it would be silly for anybody to not expect partisan ‘blowback,’ but if it’s not factual and presented truthfully, I don’t respect it.

“You don’t really know Americans if you think telling them to sit down and shut up will actually work.”

Are you freaking serious? After being called a racist and being told to sit down and shut up for the last eight years, and watching the left get its a$$ handed to them for doing it, do you really believe I think it works? LOL

Asking for facts, or simply calling you out for your lack of facts, does not mean anybody wants you to ‘submit’ or something. Such drama.

“We don’t need single saviors, heroic politicians who somehow save us all.”

Save that BS for somebody who hasn’t watched you deny or dismiss every negative criticism about Obama and Clinton for the past decade.
When it comes to “the Great Leader” and “of using authoritarian control to bend the wills of all” you guys have excelled. That’s pretty much why you have lost so much.

Not sure where you have been for the past 30 years, but extreme biases are what has led to the term “liberal media.” And the people who recognize it ARE trying to prevent it from pulling “the orbit of the government into an eccentric and unstable path.”

“Today’s conservatives have been brought up with far too selfish and competitive a sensibility.”

You are spending your time and money to complain about how others spend their time and money, but THEY are the ones who are selfish? LOL

“You’re thinking, “They should stop bothering Trump about Russia,”

Um, no. I saying that they should produce factual evidence to support their claims, or start working with their President and fellow reps.

If you want to criticize Trump for lack of experience, go ahead. I did the same to Obama for his obvious lack of experience.

Posted by: kctim at May 17, 2017 1:22 PM
Comment #416369

J2,

More of the same ridiculous Nazi nonsense eh? Yawn.
Tell me, do you actually believe that as long as you mention it first, and often, that it is you who gets to define ‘the other side?’ Or do you understand that it’s actually nothing more than a crutch used by those who no longer have facts to back them up?

1. Opinions and assumptions are not actual news simply because you agree with them.
2. Voters knew what they were getting with Trump. Your propaganda and fake news nonsense had very little to do with their votes.
3. Royal is his own man and lives his own life. At least he isn’t rioting, destroying property, and physically attacking those who don’t agree with him.
4. Trump hasn’t been in office long enough to do any real damage.
5. Trump had no record to run on. He basically won by running on policy that was popular in the 90s and by being against all the PC nonsense that has infected the country.
6. Yes, we all know, not supporting leftist policy somehow makes one a Nazi. Blah blah blah

Posted by: kctim at May 17, 2017 2:00 PM
Comment #416371

I’m afraid nobody here on the right is arguing actual facts.

Yes, Trump has broad discretion concerning classification. Does that mean a leak from him is less damaging, less apt to get people killed, compromise intelligence sources and methods?

No.

Yes, Trump can argue that he was just handing information to partners in the fight against ISIS. But our relationship with Russia is fraught to be sure. They have a whole bunch of relationships counter to ours. Crimea was a freakout over the possibility of having a warm-water port like Crimea falling into the hands of NATO. Russia is close with the Iranians, Which makes news that Israel is operating intelligence assets questionable intelligence to relate.

But you guys want to pretend like it’s alright. Pretend like it’s not a mistake, or worse.

That’s a good way to repeat fiascos like this. That, not a biased media, is why Republican continue to suffer in the media. They’re just completely unwilling to admit they have a problem, so they’ll keep on screwing up, keep on blaming everybody else for seeing that screw up, and go back to screwing up again.

Nobody benefits from being that disconnected from reality.

It gets worse when you get a person as arrogant and insecure as Trump, a guy who can’t get talked down from doing stupid things.

Sometimes you have to start over. Sometimes you got to take your lumps, then push for something better.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 17, 2017 2:17 PM
Comment #416372

Stephen, NO one is pretending it is alright or pretend like it’s not a mistake. The only thing we who are not rushing to judgment such as you are, are waiting for the facts and the hard evidence to be brought forth. We had Waters calling for impeachment since day 1 without any evidence to back it up. Your side just don’t like the fact that you got beat and are trying to find anything even if Trump wipes his A$$ the wrong way.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 17, 2017 2:28 PM
Comment #416374

There is little doubt that all of us on WB know the games the Left is playing with rumors, un-named sources, and fake news.

Well, perhaps Daugherty doesn’t know. I posted a link cataloging all the environmental gloom and doom predicted by the Left over the past fifty years that never happened. He is apparently upset that we still have food, oil, air to breath and water to drink despite the dire warnings of his mentors.

The Right reminds the Left on WB, with actual videos and direct quotes, of all the hyperbole and outright lies told by many of their leaders; including Pelosi, Schumer, Waters, Hillary, Obama and others. The Left merely shrugs and ignores. What the Left gives us in return would never be accepted as evidence in a court of law.

What the Left can not win at the polls in elections, it hopes to win in the court of public opinion. For them, it is always the seriousness of the charges, never the evidence or facts to support those charges.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 3:10 PM
Comment #416377

Here, in his Inaugural Speech, can be found the exact reasons why President Trump is resisted by so many powerful people of every political persuasion.

“Today’s ceremony, however, has very special meaning. Because today we are not merely transferring power from one Administration to another, or from one party to another – but we are transferring power from Washington, D.C. and giving it back to you, the American People.

For too long, a small group in our nation’s Capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost.

Washington flourished – but the people did not share in its wealth.

Politicians prospered – but the jobs left, and the factories closed.

The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country.

Their victories have not been your victories; their triumphs have not been your triumphs; and while they celebrated in our nation’s Capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.

That all changes – starting right here, and right now, because this moment is your moment: it belongs to you.

It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America.

This is your day. This is your celebration.

And this, the United States of America, is your country.

What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people.

January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.

The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.”

https://www.whitehouse.gov/inaugural-address

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 3:41 PM
Comment #416378

The American Carnage speech! Boy, is he delivering!

Posted by: phx8 at May 17, 2017 4:11 PM
Comment #416379

Perky plagiarism by our Pal on the Left who obviously likes to be ruled by the Washington elite.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 4:41 PM
Comment #416380

Rich Kapitan-
I’m going to make this short, but I think it amounts to this: this wasn’t unpredictable. Trump is handing us all the ammunition. Who he’s firing, who he’s hiring, what he’s saying, which administration spokesperson he’s stepping on, which administration official he’s slinging under the bus.

If you paid attention to his background, which many of you deliberately refused to do, you’d see a broad array of accusations that went to the heart of his trustworthiness and discretion.

It’s always better to let political considerations come in last, because at the end of the day, they’re at best compromises of much wiser, smarter ideas, and really should only be employed when they absolutely have to be employed.

Republicans have chosen to back him because it circles the wagons against the liberals. That? All that is worth nothing more than a warm cup of spit.

Royal Flush-
When you have something better than tiresome preaching of the Gospel of Liberal Inferiority, get back to me. I can tell you one thing about environmental protection. Decades ago, folks like you were saying that ending CFCs, lead in gasoline, and dealing with sulfur dioxide emissions would crush the economy. We reduced and/or eliminated all three.

The prophets who pit the nation’s economic interests against the environment fail to observe either the lesson learned by our forebears, or the contemporary lessons the Chinese and other countries are learning: that pollution can have economic and social costs that outweigh the benefits to the economy. In particular, dealing with lead pollution may be one of the big factors in the reduction of violence over the last few decades.

The main reason for not doing so has been corruption, people simply wanting all the profit they can possibly get, all the time, even if it means terrible consequences for the masses.

It’s time for America to shift its priorities to what does the most good for the most people.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 17, 2017 5:03 PM
Comment #416381

Royal Flush-
And honestly, a speech? Trump talks all the time. He talks too much, talks a great game, but his ability to sell you on what he does has not translated into an ability to get much of anything useful done.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 17, 2017 5:05 PM
Comment #416384

Turns out ‘the people’ in that speech were actually Goldman Sachs guys, big corporations, and billionaires who want to get rid of the estate tax.

Which they will do by taking away health care insurance from 24 million poor.

Posted by: phx8 at May 17, 2017 5:20 PM
Comment #416386

It’s time for America to shift its priorities to what does the most good for the most people.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 17, 2017 5:03 PM

Well said if one is a Socialist/Communist.

The uneducated Left living in poverty, or near poverty, always find others to blame. They can’t, or don’t wish to understand or participate in free enterprise, individualism and capitalism.

The lack of good parenting, or good schooling has led them to the sorry state of government dependence. For these poor souls, more government is a source of income and they care not from whom it is taken. Government creates them, nourishes them, encourages them to replicate themselves, and demands very little expect complete allegiance.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 5:27 PM
Comment #416387

Poor phx8, he still doesn’t know who got rich from Obamacare, the Obama bailouts, and the $10 Billion added to our national debt by Hussein Obama. Tell us Pal, how much “small change” did you get?

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 5:31 PM
Comment #416388

Correction: $10 Trillion not Billion

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 5:32 PM
Comment #416390

Even two weeks ago, I would have said there was no way Trump would ever be impeached, because the GOP Congress would never go there. Now, I am not so sure. If- and it is a big IF- things happened as represented by the NYT in the Comey memo- IF Comey confirms it in his testimony- and IF Comey can explain why he did not act at the time, when Trump told Sessions & Pence to leave the room and apparently committed Obstruction of Justice-

Then the GOP will impeach Trump.

The thing is, those ‘ifs’ are probably true. And the GOP doesn’t really need Trump. He is making the party look ridiculous and he will cost them the House in 2018. IF Pence has done nothing worse than lie for Trump, Pence can serve as well or better for pushing forward the GOP establishment’s agenda.

So they might actually do it. A lot of Republicans are going to be fed up with the incompetence and ineptitude. A lot are going to be tired of boarding an airplane, opening the overhead storage bin, and having a Russian fall out; then opening the next, and having another fall out. There will be a calculation that it would be better to kill the Trump presidency immediately, and let Pence right the ship. There’s enough time to save the midterms if the GOP acts quickly. Trump seems absolutely impelled to blow up his presidency faster than anyone imagined possible.

Posted by: phx8 at May 17, 2017 5:49 PM
Comment #416392

Peter (phx8) Pan and his Never-Never-land dreams.

We will have a special investigator and nothing will be found.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 6:12 PM
Comment #416393

From what I heard of the memo and what was in it, it was like a wish list that will never come true. Also your Democrat wish for impeachment is also a wish list that will never come true. IMO it’s time for democrats to quit playing around and get their snowflake a$$’s to work.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at May 17, 2017 6:22 PM
Comment #416394

Former FBI head Robert Mueller named to oversee Russia election probe.

I trust Mueller. Hope he rolls up his sleeves and goes to work quickly.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 6:23 PM
Comment #416395

Why, yes. We will have a Special Counsel. It is Robert Mueller, former FBI Director. Deputy AG Rosenstein named him this afternoon. “Nothing will be found”? Well, Flynn has already been issued subpoenas by the Senate Intel Committee AND a Grand Jury. Manafort has been given one in reference to possible money laundering for a multi-million dollar beach front property.

Wonder what crossed Rosenstein’s desk that convinced him to act?

Posted by: phx8 at May 17, 2017 6:23 PM
Comment #416396

Wonder what crossed Rosenstein’s desk that convinced him to act?
Posted by: phx8 at May 17, 2017 6:23 PM

Maybe some Dems are holding his kids for ransom.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 6:26 PM
Comment #416397

I expect Special Counsel Mueller will be looking into any Russian involvement in the DNC. Should be interesting. Perhaps Hillary may become a “person of interest”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 6:36 PM
Comment #416399

Someone asked, what is that noise in the wall that sounds like mice running?

Well son, that is the sound of the Lefties scrambling around for their talking points for tomorrow.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 17, 2017 6:59 PM
Comment #416445

Richard Kapitan-
I work for a living, thank you very much, and this snowflake has dealt with things this last year that would melt you. And I’m not talking political.

It’s always lovely how the Republicans think they’re so tough, yet when it comes to the pressures and anxieties of actually carrying out the full scope of the constitutional vision of equality and liberty. There’s always some exception they want, justified by some pressing belief that society would go to hell if people weren’t forced to confrom to their ideal.

Royal Flush-
Try this on for size: The Trump administration knew that Flynn was being investigated for being an unregistered foreign agent when they hired him. Oh, and when he got into office, he changed military plans to suit the preferences of those he was taking money from at the time.

As for why Rosenstein brought in Mueller? Rosenstein was a longtime functionary in the justice department, working under multiple presidents of both party, well respected on both sides. Trump and others tried to throw him under the bus with the Comey firing, so this is him returning the favor.

This notion that Mueller will go so far afield as to prosecute Comey, Hillary, or Obama is just an Ostrich maneuver on the part of the GOP. It’s highly unlikely.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 18, 2017 10:44 AM
Comment #416446

I was talking about the snowflakes in congress Stephen.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 18, 2017 11:06 AM
Comment #416448
More of the same ridiculous Nazi nonsense eh? Yawn.

Nope kctim, just lessons from a master propagandist that apply to your comments.

Tell me, do you actually believe that as long as you mention it first, and often, that it is you who gets to define ‘the other side?’ Or do you understand that it’s actually nothing more than a crutch used by those who no longer have facts to back them up?

But kctim in this case the facts are the lessons put to your comments. I mean you guys on the right don’t realize you are being manipulated by a series of big lies while you routinely accuse the other side of what your side is in fact doing.

1. Opinions and assumptions are not actual news simply because you agree with them.

Tell that to most of the conservative media kctim.

2. Voters knew what they were getting with Trump. Your propaganda and fake news nonsense had very little to do with their votes.

Did they now? Is this buffoonery what you expected? Did you expect Trump to knowingly appoint a foreign agent to a national security post?


3. Royal is his own man and lives his own life. At least he isn’t rioting, destroying property, and physically attacking those who don’t agree with him.

So his myths, misinformation, half truths and outright lies are acceptable because he isn’t rioting! That is the bar you set so low?


4. Trump hasn’t been in office long enough to do any real damage.

LOL! Such high expectations from our conservative friends.


5. Trump had no record to run on. He basically won by running on policy that was popular in the 90s and by being against all the PC nonsense that has infected the country.

He ran on not being a politician but a businessman. He won the electoral college. He used propaganda and lies, er umm alternative facts I mean, to fool the most gullible of us. One day we will thank him for his service to our country if he can manage to stay in office. But with his miserable track record to date, his bad choices and his far right advisors and relatives he hasn’t really done anything but bully and whine in the most PC of ways. Yep the big strong leader has actually told the country he is a victim of the most abuse of a president ever! What a f**king joke this man is. A snowflake if ever there was one, not just decaying organic matter like the rest of us. So PC.


6. Yes, we all know, not supporting leftist policy somehow makes one a Nazi. Blah blah blah

The problem kctim is your understanding. You see what makes one a fascist is their actions, not what they don’t support but what they do support. Using propaganda techniques like Trumpapologists do to obfuscate the issues is but one of the many things that screams out dictator. That is why I pointed them out in my previous comments. Your lame attempt to divert the issue is as laughable as it is predictable.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 18, 2017 12:01 PM
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