Democrats & Liberals Archives

Michael Flynn Resigns

In a cloud of betrayal and distrust, National Security Advisor Michael Flynn resigned his post today. This came on the heels of revelations that Flynn flagrantly violated the Logan Act with his communications with Russian government officials between November’s elections and January’s inauguration. More damning was Flynn’s attempt to cover up his criminal behavior by lying to the Vice President.

Unfortunately for Flynn, the Washington Post published an article last week testifying that nine anonymous senior government officials had seen intelligence indicating that Michael Flynn's claim that his conversations with Russia did not touch upon US sanctions or other official government policy.

Over the weekend, Conservatives tried to dismiss this groundbreaking story as "Fake News", but once again, The Washington Post demonstrated its commitment to hard-hitting and objective investigative journalism. It isn't particularly surprising that Flynn was not up to his job. He previously lost his job in charge of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) on account of his rash behavior and unusual fealty to false beliefs, termed "Flynn Facts" by his colleagues. In 2014, Flynn was pushed out of the DIA.

Now, Americans are recoiling in fear. If Donald Trump cannot be trusted to vet his own National Security Advisor against foreign threats, how on earth can we trust him to competently implement "extreme" vetting procedures for immigrants and foreign visitors? As his poll numbers continue their precipitous fall, Democrats smell blood and think ahead to 2018's Congressional elections with glee. With Flynn's scalp secure, which other incompetent member of the Trump cabinet will come under fire next? There are so many juicy targets...

Posted by Warren Porter at February 13, 2017 11:18 PM
Comment #413239

As a note of comparison, only two cabinet secretaries resigned in a cloud of sandal in the Obama administration. Both occurred well into Obama’s sixth year as President, whereas Trump has not even reached his sixth week as President. So far, Trump’s Presidency has started off really badly; arguably it is worse than the William Henry Harrison administration when the POTUS died a month after his inauguration.

Returning to the comparison with Obama, Both Kathleen Sebelius and Eric Shinseki resigned in early 2014 due to minor scandals involving IT issues with the rollout and fradulent manipulation of VA records in order to cover up failures to deliver lifesaving care to some veterans.

Not to diminish the pain felt by the victims of these two scandals, but neither of these was anywhere near as catastrophic as the Michael Flynn fiasco has been. HHS and VA do not handle issues anywhere near as critical as NSA and their failure to provide certain services cannot jeopardize national security.

Now, the question turns to Trump’s innermost circle. What did the President know and when did he know it? The Washington Post reports that Sally Yates and the DOJ told the White House that Flynn had been compromised by Russia and was subject to blackmail. A competent President would have taken this information and demanded Flynn’s resignation on the spot, but for some reason it was Sally Yates’ head that ended up on the chopping block instead. Yates was fired for doing nothing other than serving the American people and the US Constitution.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 14, 2017 10:14 AM
Comment #413240

That is the way a dictator works, shoot the messenger. I keep being disappointed by Trump and his clownish buffoonery. I thought he was going to Make America great again instead he offers his a** to Putin every chance he gets.

The only thing worse than this president and his bottom of the swamp picks for his administration is the millions of conservatives who keep shouting “fake news” every time someone points out the truth to them. It has become an epidemic in this country.

Seeing how the dems are not really a major political party any more, and the repubs have disintegrated into a place where Trump is the best of the bunch it is time for all Americans to wake up. Time for some critical thinking instead of the whiny “it’s fake news” crap. When the president lies to the American people on a daily basis something is wrong and it is time to stop covering it up and time to put down the fake news banner and hold the guy you voted for accountable. How many bad choices does Trump get to make before conservatives and other Trump followers say “the buck stops here”?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 14, 2017 11:23 AM
Comment #413242

There are so many things wrong with this story about Flynn and the Russians that it is hard to know where to begin.

First, the National Security Advisor. National. Security. Advisor. Was talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions in late December, and then lied about it, and was vulnerable to blackmail. Those were sanctions to punish the Russians for interfering with our election. Russians. Interfered. With. Our. Election.

Second, the timelines. Trump is lying. Others are either lying or concealing those phone calls and discussions.

Third, why did Trump only act once the story went public? He knew his National. Security. Advisor. was subject to blackmail by an adversary after that adversary interfered with our elections, and Trump did nothing?

What is going on?

And where is the GOP? What happened to conservatives? A few are speaking up, but an awful lot are looking the other way.

Trump seems more worried about the leaks than the content. Yet Trump refuses to act until the leaks go public. Why does Trump refuse to act until forced to?

How deep does this treason run?

Posted by: phx8 at February 14, 2017 11:47 AM
Comment #413244

The always talkative conservative bunch seem to be rather muted today. I guess there must be some interference in the dispatch of today’s GOP talking points.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 14, 2017 12:41 PM
Comment #413245

Lucky for WatchBlog, it doesn’t appear that there was any interference with the daily liberal talking-points: Clear Obama, OMG PUTIN!, and of course TREASON!

You guys really are trying to reach ‘Birther’ status, aren’t you. LOL!

Posted by: kctim at February 14, 2017 12:49 PM
Comment #413248

Quit embarrassing yourself with this nonsense kctim. Address the issue. Flynn resigned after lying to the VP. A comparison of admin picks and their antics isn’t clearing Obama so stop the nonsense. OMHG Putin, when Putin’s henchmen were involved in the downfall of Flynn!! If it isn’t Treason then explain what it is don’t play it off as some talking point. Time to wake up and admit your side may have screwed the pooch on this one. Throw him under the bus for his actions, don’t defend the man for his actions. Is this the kind of government you want?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 14, 2017 1:29 PM
Comment #413250

There was documentary evidence against the Birther Claims, and apparently documentary evidence for the claims about Flynn. It is not who a claim hurts or helps that’s important. That’s a secondary, political concern. The practical concern is what conclusions the evidence makes necessary, and whether that evidence holds up.

The Trump Administration, to my experience, doesn’t send their minions to a fiery doom unless they’re convinced that there’s no way to cut them loose of the scandal. If they had the FBI playing the tapes, or witnesses testifying that they saw or heard him making that call, that would fit that particular bill.

The Trouble with the Trump Administration and Putin is that just too much is happening that is convenient to Russian interests, and Trump is way too eager for no organically motivated reason to come bounding Putin’s way when he whistles.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 14, 2017 1:43 PM
Comment #413252

While it’s still WAY to early to know everything, apparently the General was not truthful about his contacts with Russia.
If you lie to the Pres. or his VP you should resign or be fired. It’s freaking common sense. And I haven’t heard anyone defending those actions.

But what is the lefts natural reaction? Irrelevant comparisons to Obama’s picks being great, Putin’s henchmen, and freaking treason. Yes, the very same people who supported ‘After My Election, I’ll Have More Flexibility’ and the intentional mishandling of classified information, are NOW concerned about possible compromise and treason.

It’s not me who is embarrassing themselves, J2.

Posted by: kctim at February 14, 2017 2:05 PM
Comment #413253


The scandal is that Trump didn’t fire Flynn in January when the DOJ told him the truth. Why was a man compromised by Russian intelligence allowed into the situation room and given access to the Presidential Daily Briefing. For someone who blew gaskets month after month about some imperfect handling of a handful of emails, the revelation that Flynn was not fired immediately ought to at least rise an eyebrow.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 14, 2017 2:11 PM
Comment #413254

Stephen, I was comparing the ‘Putin puppet’ ‘fascist’ and ‘treason’ nonsense to the ‘Birther’ nonsense. Hyping Flynn talking with the Russians about having more flexibility after the inauguration, is just more of that.

He lied to the VP. He was fired. He got what he deserved.
Poking fun at the conspiracy theories is not a defense of what happened.

Sure will be nice when you guys start going after President Trump on things with some substance.

Posted by: kctim at February 14, 2017 2:21 PM
Comment #413255


You didn’t address my comment. Trump didn’t ask for Flynn’s resignation when he learned Flynn lied to Pence.

It took leaks from the intelligence agency to the Washington Post to force the issue. That’s not how things are supposed to work. Absent those leaks, Flynn would continue to serve as Trump’s NSA indefinitely.

And we haven’t even begun to address the implications vis-à-vis the Logan Act.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 14, 2017 2:27 PM
Comment #413259

Why do you think Flynn lied to the VP about his conversations with the Russian ambassador?

Posted by: phx8 at February 14, 2017 2:57 PM
Comment #413262


“As a note of comparison, only two cabinet secretaries resigned in a cloud of sandal in the Obama administration”

This proves nothing except that democrats will not willingly give up power no matter how corrupt they are. They have to be forcibly removed while kicking and screaming.

Posted by: dbs at February 14, 2017 3:06 PM
Comment #413263

“…the revelation that Flynn was not fired immediately ought to at least rise an eyebrow.”

Eyebrow raised Warren.

I don’t trust our intelligence community any more than Senator Charles Schumer. Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is “being really dumb” by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia’s cyber activities.

“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.

I don’t believe that the transcripts from the (CIA leakers) are available yet.

Congress should investigate leaks coming from our intelligence community.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 14, 2017 3:14 PM
Comment #413264


“The always talkative conservative bunch seem to be rather muted today. I guess there must be some interference in the dispatch of today’s GOP talking points.”

Nope, he did something he shouldn’t have done, and violated the administrations trust, and was asked to resign. He resigned, end of story. Not like say Susan Rice who bald faced lied to the American public repeatedly, and was never asked to resign, or Lois Lerner destroying evidence, and lying under oath but no indictment or a request to resign. And don’t get me started with Hilarys destruction of evidence, and lying under oath as well. Those living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Posted by: dbs at February 14, 2017 3:15 PM
Comment #413265

Okay, let me walk you around the room on this.

During the course of the campaign, A number of associates are discovered to have associations with the Russian Government, or with the Yanukovich Ukraine Government, which amounts to the same thing. That is especially true of Paul Manafort, who served as his campaign manager.

So? Doesn’t mean anything by itself. What would be alarming is if these associations come up, and, say, the Trump Campaign and the GOP make significant policy changes to the party platform. If the campaign gets friendlier with the Russians…

Then the Russians hack us. Looks like the evidence says that both sides got hacked. What is Trump’s response to such news?

For one thing, he expresses the wish for additional violations of privacy, additional violations of federal and state laws to be committed against his opponent. Oh, and by default, for the dealings of the Secretary of state to end up in hands of agents of a foreign power.

For another thing? He goes against virtually every intelligence organization we got, and refuses to back their findings that we were hacked.

He then appoints a number of Russia-friendly associates to key positions, including Flynn and our new Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson. He continues to talk about a kinder, gentler arrangement with Russia, even with pretty fierce open questions about the wisdom of this.

Did I mention he’s been making problematic statements about NATO, our main bulwark against Putin?

Odd decisions that benefit Putin, even as its questionable that they’re in our interests. Associations that are almost direct to the Kremlin. Odd behavior that’s inexplicable for somebody who’s taking an honest look at what Putin is doing, but which fits the behavior of somebody who’s trying to help the Russian Government.

Long story short, Trump’s been doing a lot of alarming things, and having his National Security Adviser making sub rosa phone calls to the Russians at the same time is not very reassuring.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 14, 2017 3:46 PM
Comment #413266

Did Susan Rice lie? Careful. For one thing, your people are lying up a storm, saying things that are demonstrably false. It’s so bad that TV Reporters that typically would consider it rude are calling them on the carpet for lying to them. There’s the standard obfuscated rose-colored glasses sort of lying, and then there are lies so bald-faced that you’re more or less insulting the intelligence of the people you’re saying them to.

Those are the kind Trump’s using. It’s not even a matter of IT shredding a hard-drive (IT operations, like the one I am employed by, are required to wipe or otherwise destroy the contents of hard drave on computers and devices being retired from service. You don’t put hard drives out in the open with confidential information on them.

And we’re talking about one of the primary agencies that has care of private, confidential information.

Hillary Clinton was not responsible for the lost e-mails, by the way. Her staff only asked her whether she wanted to keep personal e-mails. she declined, and some work e-mails were wiped from the files by accident, while the vast majority were preserved.

Meanwhile, what is Trump doing? Taking national security phone calls out in the open, letting his club/resort member take selfies and photos with the guy carrying the nuclear football, his staff using RNC accounts that are likely already hacked to boot.

You’re not only throwing stones in a glass house, you’re alone in that resident at this point.

Royal Flush-
The President picks fights very unwisely, and sides even more poorly than that.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 14, 2017 3:59 PM
Comment #413267

The President picks fights very unwisely, and sides even more poorly than that.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 14, 2017 3:59 PM

That would be true of a president not intent on draining the swamp. We have become accustomed to politicians mostly going along to get along.

I applaud Trump and his determination to devolve bureaucratic power back to the states and to shake up federal agencies acting like fiefdoms.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 14, 2017 4:21 PM
Comment #413270

I didn’t address you comment because I just now saw it.

Why didn’t Trump ask for Flynn’s resignation when he learned he lied to Pence? Beats me. Hopefully we will get an answer to that. I’m not going to automatically assume some treasonous plot was behind it though.

Have they determined if his actions were unlawful or not?

Posted by: kctim at February 14, 2017 5:12 PM
Comment #413273

“Why do you think Flynn lied to the VP about his conversations with the Russian ambassador?”

I have no idea. Maybe he knew it would reflect bad upon the administration?

Seeing how he says a lot of things, maybe millions of things a day, maybe he misspoke and it was just a misstatement? He has been in the public eye for many, many years, and this is something that can happen to anybody.
Or so I’ve heard.

Posted by: kctim at February 14, 2017 5:21 PM
Comment #413274

It was not just the VP. Flynn also lied to Spicer. The thing is, Pence & Spicer and most of the Trump administration are NOT part of the pro-Russian faction.

Several times I said “Trump is lying.” Now it comes out, Trump is lying. He knew about Flynn for weeks. Trump knew Flynn was compromised and subject to blackmail. Flynn may also have been financially compromised. And remember, this isn’t just some guy. This is the National Security Advisor.

Nunes, the House Republican in charge of the Intel Committee, will investigate the links, but he will not look at what has been happening with Trump. Nunes was part of the Trump transition team.

Chaffetz in Oversight is finally doing something. He spent plenty of time on Hillary’s e-mails, but he can not be bothered investigating the Russian hack & leak and interference in our election, or the multitude of ties between Trump & his faction with the Russians. However, Chaffetz will investigate the Mar-a-Lago breach of security, when Trump and others dealt with the North Korean missile launch in the middle of a public venue.

There are so many things going wrong, it is hard to focus, but I think it is important not to be distracted by the trivial law breaking, and concentrate on the Russian scandal.

Posted by: phx8 at February 14, 2017 5:31 PM
Comment #413282

Thanks for the ‘walk’ through the X-Files room, but all those “ifs” and “Looks like” assumptions aren’t my thing.

What we actually know:
Yes, Trump hired some people who had business dealings with Russians.
The DNC was hacked and Trump did not believe the Russians were behind it.
Trump did joke that if Russia found the 30,000 emails missing from Hillary’s server, they would probably be rewarded mightily by our press.
Trump did question our intelligence agencies.
Trump did call out NATO for not being tough enough on terrorists, and for not helping pay.

Aside from my believing that Russia isn’t possible of being kinder and friendlier, I can’t say I’m all that worried about some Putin Puppet Plot Conspiracy turning out to be true and being stuck in some gulag.

Posted by: kctim at February 14, 2017 5:56 PM
Comment #413283
Why didn’t Trump ask for Flynn’s resignation when he learned he lied to Pence? Beats me. Hopefully we will get an answer to that. I’m not going to automatically assume some treasonous plot was behind it though.

Regardless, this is a matter that requires proper investigation. Congress does not seem up to the task, which may mean an independent prosecutor needs to be brought in.

Have they determined if his actions were unlawful or not?

There are important questions that remain unanswered:

Did Flynn’s discussions with Russian officials regarding US anti-Russian sanctions violate the Logan Act? Unless transcripts of the calls are released, you and I do not know enough to make a determination.

Did Michael Flynn lie to the FBI?

Why did Donald Trump refuse to tell his own Vice President about the DOJ’s warning regarding Flynn?

It seems that the President has absolutely zero problems with a National Security Advisor lying to his own Vice President. Indeed, for eleven days Trump colluded with Flynn to keep Pence in the dark over what happened. I can only guess that Trump & Flynn assumed that they could continue to run circles around Vice President Pence indefinitely. It was only when the coverup was no longer tenable that Michael Flynn was forced to resign.

The fact that Michael Flynn lied in the first place indicates some awareness on his part that what he did was improper. I will not be surprised if Donald Trump tried his best to shield Flynn from Logan Act indictments. Of course, like many people in government, Donald Trump is learning that the coverup is often worse than the underlying crime.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 14, 2017 6:00 PM
Comment #413289

Royal Flush-
Thank you for the millionth repetition of Trump’s slogans. I’m sorry to inform you, though, that he’s no longer campaigning and therefore has to provide some goddamn results. That does not involve putting billionaire, multimillionaires, campaign cronies and other assorted deplorables in charge of the bureaucracies.

That does not include a return to unethical behavior unheard of in modern times. You have a White House spokeswoman hawking the wares of the President’s daughter, for crying out loud. He hasn’t disentangled himself from his business affairs. Even with the best intentions, Trump is like a man with a beam in his eye trying to take the mote out of Washington’s eye, if he won’t even conform to basic ethical standards.

You keep on saying what Trump will do, is supposed to do, what a wonderful event his investment with power is for us all, and you keep on spewing propaganda our way accusing anybody who doesn’t act the part of the shiny, happy people holding hands of being paid protestors, biased media, fake news, and whatever other asinine description you can come with to keep telling the rest of us to ignore the small-fingered man behind the curtain.

That’s not what will matter. What will matter is what he does, and what comes of what he does. Oh, and what he did to gain power, I think, will come back to haunt him. Whether we’re talking the promises he made and could not (or should not) keep, or whether the suspicions regarding Russia pan out, I think we will see the consequences of the overheated rhetoric and the acceptance of Russia’s help unfold.

Learning about screenwriting, I found out something very important about people: the most realistic behavior, or at least that which reads as realistic, is motivated behavior. Take Darth Vader and the Emperor in the finale of Return of the Jedi. They don’t just have Darth Vader kill the Emperor out of the blue. They set up that he’s not entirely evil. They set up that Luke has been trying to turn him back to the light. They set up that Luke’s gone part of the way to being like his father in multiple ways, including being part mechanical, unleashing his anger in the fight. They also show Luke taking a more virtuous path, refusing to kill his father. Then they finally put in Vader’s path the final push of that motivation into its critical mass: having to watch his son being murdered by the emperor.

That’s what gives his throwing the Emperor into the reactor shaft its power. It’s contrary to how the character has been acting, but not contrary to how the character wanted to act.

So, how do I apply this to Trump and the others?

I ask a simple question: Why did they do each step? Why did Donald Trump shut out so many people, after being told that Flynn had spoken of the sanctions to the Russian diplomat? Why did Flynn discuss the sanctions with the Russian Diplomat? We can guess some of the motivation from other actions. Flynn is one of those who has had dealings with Russia. Sympathies to Putin wouldn’t be too outlandish, especially given the Trump Campaign’s statement.

Trump’s denial of what the CIA and others were saying was very, very strange. It’s one thing to be skeptical about what an intelligence agency tells you. It’s quite another to have the whole intelligence community saying one thing, and you’re saying another… why? What evidence did Trump have to feed this belief that Putin didn’t do anything?

Trump’s joke? It’s sort of like that crude sexual joke a character might make that kind of speaks to what the character seriously believes. Sort of like the sleazeball quote that Bill Paxton’s character has in True Lies when he talks about Jamie Lee Curtis’ Character having an “ass like a ten-year-old boy.”

Even if he was joking, what a bizarre and questionable joke to make, as a Presidential Candidate

And this calling out NATO thing… what possible good does that do us? It does plenty of good for Putin, who’s got NATO countries right to his border. It doesn’t benefit us much, unless talk of making America great again involves America declining as a world power. The UN and NATO help America project power. Naive stunts like calling the Taiwanese up and raising questions about the One China policy without some clear leverage don’t. Neither does pulling right out of the Trans Pacific Partnership, since China fills the void.

Trump doesn’t even have to be an actual Russian puppet. Take your pick: sympathizer? Useful idiot? Compromised leader? Ethically conflicted investor or debtor in Russian concerns? All those aren’t helpful to the American people, and he seems damn intent on hiding something. What, I don’t know. But whatever it is, I don’t care for it. I don’t care for such secrets from my CINC.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 14, 2017 6:44 PM
Comment #413291

My little Buddy Stephen conjures up all kinds of weird scenarios out of his political wizard hat and then entwines them with movies. He regales us with his screenwriting studies, and just like the phony Hollywood types, claims special knowledge or insight. All that is lacking is an award of some kind.

I nominate Stephen for the highly prized “Dunce Hat” award.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 14, 2017 6:58 PM
Comment #413293

Royal Flush,

I nominate you for the moron of the day award. If you aren’t going to address Stephen’s argument, please shut up.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 14, 2017 7:18 PM
Comment #413294

AW…thanks for the adulation by imitation Warren.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 14, 2017 7:21 PM
Comment #413297

This morning, Limbaugh was citing a story about how Obama stayed in Washington D.C. to run a secret government, and there were 32,000 community organizers out to undermine Trump, that Hillary was guilty of something, and everything was the MSM’s fault, and the government was full of liberals and leftists.

I wish I could have caught more than a few minutes. It was truly nuts. But there are people who believe that stuff. Is it any wonder things reached this point? The Trump administration lies so much they have zero credibility. This is bad for the country.

All this is happening even though there have been no significant events. These are just self-inflicted wounds.

Posted by: phx8 at February 14, 2017 7:49 PM
Comment #413299


I’ll be absolutely honest. I am enjoying every single minute of Trump’s Presidency. Sure, it’s a bit of a dumpster fire, but I’ve never seen the Left glowing with such enthusiasm before. Democrats are all but guaranteed to win Congress in 21 months. Meanwhile, the Democratic minority has done its absolute best to stymie Republicans.

The effort to repeal Obamacare
has completely stalled. Congress critters spend their days reacting to the latest Trump scandal. Meanwhile, tax reform proposals are neglected and the GOP legislative agenda wilts and dies. Time is running out, fast.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 14, 2017 8:52 PM
Comment #413307

Almost forgot. Limbaugh was also going on about how all the protests were being done by paid protestors, and funded by George Soros. It really was one of the crazier things I’ve ever heard anyone say out loud.

Well, I am not enjoying it at all, and neither is Mrs. Phx8 or either of our children’s families. True, it is firing people up in a way I haven’t seen since Viet Nam, and the voters are running way ahead of the Democratic politicians. J2t2 mentioned that earlier in the thread. The Democratic Party needs to understand just how unacceptable this all is. As to whether it results in a wave election in 2018, well, we’ll see. I think there could be such a thing as Trump exhaustion. Horrible things seem to be happening almost daily, and all of this is taking place without any kind of major external events.

There is no doubt in my mind that this will be the most corrupt administration in American history. We have already seen some terrible legislation. Trump signed an EO doing away with regulations preventing coal miners from dumping mining wastes into waterways. If someone wanted to find a way to turn a flyover state already synonymous with poverty into a place to be permanently avoided at all costs, that is a pretty good way to do it. And that is just one example.

Posted by: phx8 at February 14, 2017 11:02 PM
Comment #413311

Royal Flush-
You know, you can visually tell the difference between a real smile, and one somebody just outright faked.

I’m a student of neuroscience, of psychology, of written and filmed storytelling. How people behave and why interests me greatly. If there’s one confluence of both sides, artistic and scientific, it’s that much of people’s behavior is driven by their emotional motivations, and the goals associated with that.

If you want the audience to truly become immersed in a character’s world, the pattern of their behavior, and the things that drive it are critical.

I don’t claim special knowledge. What I’d say is that people tend to establish certain habits, and when they have big, over riding goals, their actions tend to point towards that goal. Some people have certain hang ups about how they get to that goal. Others, like Trump, don’t.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 15, 2017 12:15 AM
Comment #413321

The Obama administration feared that “Flynn had put himself in a compromising position.” The Trump administration was ‘aware of the matter’, and had after Flynn’s resignation said that they had “been working on this for weeks.”

“He spent plenty of time on Hillary’s e-mails”

Only after she lied, misspoke, stonewalled, couldn’t remember, destroyed evidence, and claimed misstatements countless times.
Then there were months and months and months of investigations. Then facts were learned. Facts you willingly dismissed for politics.
But now, before any investigation, before all the facts are known, you expect people to disregard the hypocrisy and accept partisan assumptions and conspiracy as fact?
No thanks.

Of course it requires proper investigation. And if that demands an independent prosecutor be brought in, it should be done.
Waiting for those important questions to be answered before passing judgement does NOT mean otherwise.

IF Flynn violated the Logan Act or lied to the FBI, legal actions should be taken.

Posted by: kctim at February 15, 2017 9:47 AM
Comment #413322

I’m not passing any judgement yet. I have no idea regarding the content of conversations between Trump’s team and Russian intelligence officials before the election or Flynn’s conversations with Segey Kislyak.

What ought to upset you is Congressional Republicans abdication of their duty to investigate this properly. Already, we are getting absurd claims of executive privilege emanating from Congress. It’s not Congress’ job to cover up for the White House. Donald Trump is perfectly capable of covering up his crimes (if any) by himself. If Donald Trump wants to claim executive privilege, then Congress should push back and take the dispute to court so that a judge can decide. But first, at least force the White House to make the claim first before thrusting it upon them!

Then there were months and months and months of investigations
You and your cohort reached you conclusions long before those investigations were completed and then you decided to completely ignore the result of the investigation and continue to press the outrageous charge that Hillary Clinton deserved a criminal indictment for something that would ordinarily have mustered nothing other than administrative admonishment. Even the most extreme parallels involved nothing more than having a clearance revoked and ending someone’s career. Posted by: Warren Porter at February 15, 2017 10:35 AM
Comment #413325

Learning about life, I have found out something very interesting about people: they will fill ‘plot holes’ with the narrative that supports their desired outcome.
In this case, the left’s desired outcome is to destroy the ‘evil Republicans.’ They believe a Russian conspiracy is the narrative that will do it and they are filling in the holes with assumptions and guesses to support that narrative.

If Flynn is guilty, fry him. If Trump is guilty, impeach him. But for God’s sake man, do it with actual facts.

Clinton had some 30,000 emails deleted while under investigation. It was found that some of those emails contained classified information.
Clinton claimed that her personal server was NOT hacked, and we were told that meant it didn’t matter that she had classified information on her personal server.
With the emails already deleted and the servers wiped clean, the ONLY way the Russians could produce those emails is if her server had already been hacked into.
Trumps ‘joke’ gave people reason to question, a very common campaign tactic, and if true it would have pointed out a Presidential candidates negligence and lying. That is now bizarre and questionable?

Trump definitely could have picked a better way to call out NATO on its carelessness with terror and not paying their “fair share.”
You guys are going to need some actual facts to support it was done to support Putin, though.

“Take your pick: sympathizer? Useful idiot? Compromised leader? Ethically conflicted investor or debtor in Russian concerns?”

Yeah, because it’s so impossible that he’s an inexperienced non-politician who has been thrust into the ultimate political game. It just HAS to be something nefarious.

“I don’t care for such secrets from my CINC.”

You mean from THIS CinC.

Posted by: kctim at February 15, 2017 11:01 AM
Comment #413326

You ignore the natural implications of certain facts. If it’s true that certain members of the Trump campaign were in regular contact with members of Russian intelligence even before the campaign started, what follows?

What follows is that it may not be coincidence who Trump employed, may not be coincidence or convergent evolution what Trump pushed as policy, including a relaxed position about the illegal invasion of the Ukraine.

It is enough to warrant an investigation, and to condemn as naive an approach that doesn’t look further into the matter.

As far as the E-mails go? It was a fishing expedition. Republicans were looking for a political advantage, and they got it. Now the cries to lock her up are considerably more quiet.

The investigation revealed no dishonesty on her part. Mistakes, perhaps,but not dishonesty. She didn’t destroy evidence, and her staff was not directed to destroy it. Data was lost by accident, not intent. I know the story you want to tell, but it’s not the story the facts tell.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 15, 2017 11:19 AM
Comment #413329

1) As a filmgoer, I’ve found that too many people fail to pay attention to available evidence. A lot of what seem like plot holes are better termed comprehension holes.

It’s not a plot hole if you ignore the facts before you, though. It’s Fanon, a portmanteau of “Fan” and “Canon.” Canon, in a fandom sense, is the official “real” story of the given universe, while Fanon is what some audience members believe is actually going on. It’s never been established for sure, for example, how the Midichlorians helped conceive Anakin Skywalker. The story about the Emperor’s old master, Darth Plagueis, who could create life and bring people back has inspired some to think he had something to do with it.

It can simply fill in the gaps, or in some cases, it can run right over established, canonical facts in the story, and even get into the territory of “epileptic trees where the fan theories get so insane as to be completely daft. Like, for example, the theory that Jack and Tyler Durden From Fight Club are grown up versions of Calvin and Hobbes from the comics.

I don’t believe I’m wrong to be alarmed. There’s too much evidence already that a foreign power fairly hostile to our interests and hegemony has interfered with our election, with seemingly favorable results.

I don’t need to destroy the Republicans. In part, they’re doing it themselves, ironically in the course of trying to create their purest form. I don’t need to invent a Russian conspiracy. The intelligence agencies are all telling us one actually existed, and by all indications, succeeded. The main question is what exactly succeeded. Was Trump a useful idiot, a guy whose outlandish beliefs and actions would bring harm to Russia’s geopolitical rival? Was his staff in on it, but not him? Was he in on it, and to what degree, and for what reason?

Republicans are trying to pretend they can just move on from Flynn. It doesn’t work, not as a reasonable end for a story or a responsible end for an inquiry. Why?

Well, the question is what motivated his call? Was he asked to make that call, or did he make it on his own account? What was discussed? If an offer was made, or an assurance given, why were they made? Each question walks us back in time towards an ultimate question: How much involvement did a foreign power have in the successful campaign of our current President?

It’s a question Republicans don’t want answered, but every revelation is making that an increasingly untenable path.

2)Let’s look at the Clinton episode to show where the opposite happens. The Republicans assured themselves that Clinton was guilty of something. They built a whole story around that. But what do the facts say?

First, most of those 30,000 e-mails were personal, only several thousand turned out to be work-related. most of the e-mails are not missing, and were found in one form or another on other devices This is in addition to the 30,000 e-mails they had already given to the Congressonal committee investigating them.

It’s worth noting the FBI was not investigating at this point.

It’s also worth noting that Hillary never directed that any e-mails be deleted. She simply said she did not wish to keep her personal e-mails, which were among the work-related correspondence. The FBI backs the claim that there is no evidence of hacking, though that lack of evidence doesn’t rule hacking completely out.

The Russians didn’t necessarily need to hack into her servers to recover her e-mails. She sent these e-mails out to others. In fact, this is how Guccifer reached those e-mails, by hacking the account of Clinton friend Sid Blumenthal. The FBI and the very fact you know a damn thing about Hillary’s private server is owed to the fact that her e-mails naturally existed on other servers, having been sent to other servers as e-mails naturally are sent!

Trump’s request was a) encouraging an illegal act, b) encouraging what were likely foreign actors with ulterior motives to commit that illegal act, and c) encouraging them to do that against his rival in a political campaign, which would likely be to his benefit. The President is our Head of State, the executor of our law, and one of the many people charged with the safety and security of our elections, the protection of our rights as voters. To invite an illegal act on a private citizen running against him in a political campaign, with the likely suspects being agents of a foreign power? Tell me how that’s not bizarre and questionable.

3) If it was a remark made by itself, that would be an issue. But the big package of remarks, of appointments of Putin-Friendly cabinet members and staff, the appeasement on Crimea and East Ukraine, the contacts between Trump campaign officials and Russian intelligence… A pattern of beneficial actions tells us that Trump is doing more by questioning the key curb on Putin’s expansion of his sphere of influence than just pointing out the problems with our allies’ behavior.

4) He wasn’t THRUST into this situation, he thrust himself, and as the campaign went on, people like me saw more and more hints of something untoward going on. The facts we’re seeing are adding up to something the Republicans are in denial about, and this President is more and more secretive about the critical facts we need to know to know where we stand with him. He has fed the suspicions himself by not clearing the air on things.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 15, 2017 12:41 PM
Comment #413332

“his morning, Limbaugh was citing a story about how Obama stayed in Washington D.C. to run a secret government,…”

I posted a link to this story last week phx8.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 2:12 PM
Comment #413335

Stephen writes; “You ignore the natural implications of certain facts. If it’s true that certain members of the Trump campaign were in regular contact with members of Russian intelligence even before the campaign started, what follows?”

Folks, I don’t make this stuff up. Here’s Stephen using the word “facts” followed immediately by “If it’s true”.

Is there a word for someone who writes such stuff?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 2:29 PM
Comment #413336

phx8 writes; “True, it is firing people up in a way I haven’t seen since Viet Nam, and the voters are running way ahead of the Democratic politicians.”

I am so happy for my giddy Pal phx8. Does this warrant a celebration at Chucky Cheese?

Apparently the Iraq war is already forgotten despite the Libs hair on fire over that.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 2:44 PM
Comment #413340

Just curious, was a wire tap warrant obtained to monitor Flynn’s telephone while he was just a citizen?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 3:50 PM
Comment #413342

The tap was on the Russian ambassador’s incoming calls, and not on Flynn. However, Director Comey supposedly did not bring up Russian involvement in the Trump campaign because he did not want to tip off Flynn about the investigation. That is unverified, but it makes sense. Sort of.

Iraq was really bad. People were fired up. This may be worse, based on the size of the protests.

Posted by: phx8 at February 15, 2017 4:08 PM
Comment #413343

This may be worse, based on the size of the protests.
Posted by: phx8 at February 15, 2017 4:08 PM

Your world is certainly different from mine phx8. I have read a few articles in the NYT and other papers. So far, we have anonymous officials leaking nothing substantive.

Do you have links to direct quotes from the wiretap phx8?

Do you have any evidence of wrong doing that you can share?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 4:17 PM
Comment #413346
Folks, I don’t make this stuff up. Here’s Stephen using the word “facts” followed immediately by “If it’s true”.

Is there a word for someone who writes such stuff?

Yes, it’s called a logician.

Royal Flush must’ve slept through Logic 101. The following is a classic syllogism:

It is a fact that Socrates is a man.
If someone is a man, he is mortal.
Therefore, Socrates is mortal.

Nothing wrong with the juxtaposition of the word “facts” with the word “if”.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 15, 2017 4:36 PM
Comment #413348

I see Warren.

“certain facts” + “certain members” = natural implications.

OK, go with that. Use that in your logic class.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 4:48 PM
Comment #413349

All men named Warren and Stephen lie.

Warren and Stephen are men.

Warren and Stephen lie.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 4:53 PM
Comment #413356

Royal Flush,

There’s a difference between a sound argument and a valid one.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 15, 2017 5:58 PM
Comment #413357

Many of you know-it-alls defy logic and truth.

There are a number of southpaws smack dab in the middle of this whole mess.

Brannan and “Benny” are a couple of starters. They have lied to the people many times over. And that is using information that is not classified. There are a number of others who also have pie on their face. There is not very much documentation above just a lot of lost words not saying much

Congressmen just love to get involved in these kinds of situations.

Posted by: tom humes at February 15, 2017 7:47 PM
Comment #413358

“There is not very much documentation above just a lot of lost words not saying much”

And your post is different Tom because…

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2017 7:53 PM
Comment #413367

Royal Flush

“Just curious, was a wire tap warrant obtained to monitor Flynn’s telephone while he was just a citizen?”

If the wire tap was legal, and part of and part of an investigation by US intelligence whoever leaked that information is in deep shit as well.

Posted by: dbs at February 16, 2017 6:39 AM
Comment #413369

I’m not ignoring “the natural implications of certain facts,” I am simply not jumping to conclusions prematurely. When your conclusion is based on assumptions derived from “if it’s true” and “may or may not be,” rather than explicitly stated facts, it is severely influenced by personal bias.

It doesn’t matter HOW the emails became an issue, nor do guesses of her supposed intent.
The investigation showed that classified information was mishandled and that Clinton was dishonest about it. Those are the words of the FBI Director in his official statement and his questioning.
That IS the story that the facts ‘tell.’

Posted by: kctim at February 16, 2017 9:54 AM
Comment #413372
whoever leaked that information is in deep shit as well.

Maybe. Maybe not. Prosecution of leaks in this country is quite inconsistent. I’ll refer you to Carl Bernstein’s report regarding Felt published 12 years ago:

It was only later after Nixon resigned that I began to wonder why Felt had talked when doing so carried substantial risks for him and the FBI. Had he been exposed early on, Felt would have been no hero. Technically, it was illegal to talk about grand jury information or FBI files — or it could have been made to look illegal.

Of course, Felt never served a day in jail for his role in unmasking the Watergate scandal.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 16, 2017 11:47 AM
Comment #413373

I’m not going to tell you that you are wrong to be alarmed, but I will say that much of your reason to be alarmed is based on hyperbole.
Our election was not hacked and altered. The DNC was careless and their words were made public. Its influence on the election is debatable.

Trumps ‘outlandish beliefs’ and actions aren’t really all that outlandish, as the ones that actually matter are shared by the 60+ million who voted for him.
People care about things like jobs, national security and illegal immigration. Not who feels offended by anything and everything Trump does, and who’s ONLY goal is to discredit them, our election process and Trumps legitimacy.
IF you guys are right and there really is some secret hidden Russian agenda behind everything, Trump will be gone and they will accept it.

2)But what do the facts say?
They say that she used multiple devices when she said she did not. That classified information was sent and received from her personal server, when she said she never sent or received any classified information over her private e-mail. That she said said all work related emails were returned to the State Department, but work related email, thousands, that were not returned. That work related emails that were removed electronically from the email system.

Facts say that you cannot ‘hack’ a server that has been taken off line and cannot be reached. That ‘the Russians’ would have to either already have the emails, or hack into ALL other servers that could possibly have emails that did not originate and end on her personal server.

Come on Stephen. It’s silly to try and continue the narrative that Clinton did nothing wrong and Trump using it to his advantage is unheard of. He11, this entire thing with Flynn is over his ‘hacked’ phone calls showing he was dishonest.

3) And IF an investigation proves you to be right about this ‘pattern,’ the proper actions will be taken. Until then, your ‘pattern’ is no more valid than the whole ‘Obama is a secret muslim helping them at our expense’ pattern.

4) NOBODY expected Trump to win. Shoot, I doubt he even thought he would win. He was a businessman and overnight he became a politician.
Those on the far-left see someone who does not toe the liberal line as a threat to them and that has led to how you interpret facts and your speculation.
There is absolutely nothing that Trump could do, or could have ever done, to change where you guys ‘stand with him.’

Posted by: kctim at February 16, 2017 11:53 AM
Comment #413374

Royal Flush-
There are two sides to any logical argument. The first side is the structure of the inference, the form. If this, then that. Your example is:

All men named Warren and Stephen lie.

Warren and Stephen are men.

Warren and Stephen lie.

This doesn’t work all that well. It’s cockeyed.


All men lie at some point in their lives. Warren and Stephen are men. Therefore, Warren and Stephen have lied at some point in their lives.

Note the modesty of the claim. It’s not

All men lie. Stephen and Warren are men. Therefore, Stephen and Warren are lying.

That first statement is a categorical statement, but it’s very generalized You need additional information, though, to verify or falsify the conclusion, because there is relevant information that is needed to judge it.

The quality of your information is critically. Perfectly good, flawless logic is worthless, if you don’t have the right facts to plug into the right places.

This argument might work better:

Stephen and Warren claimed the box in the room they were just in was blue.
Stephen and Warren both have fully functional vision and color perception.
I walked into the room and observed the box was red.
This box has no capability to change color that I know of.
Therefore, Stephen and Warren lied to me when they said the box was blue.

If all the facts are straight, the conclusion must follow. What if, though, I lead you back into the room, and I reveal a switch on the bottom. Flicking the switch, it turns the box blue. Our statement that the box was blue was correct. It just wasn’t blue any longer when you walked in the room.

It gets especially interesting if there was a third person in the room who flicked the switch without our knowledge, especially if we didn’t know about the switch until later. The world is a complex place, and sometimes our logical arguments aren’t caught up to the full spread of the facts. But if those additional facts pop up, and you still accuse us of lying, your conclusion will rest less on the facts, and more on what you believe.

Part of the function of logic is to allow reasonable people to verify conclusions reached by folks they don’t necessarily agree with. Part of it is also to yield novel, dependable conclusions where only partial information is available.

That’s what f***ing annoys me about rhetoric on the right these days. I am constantly called to assume the truth of a premise that they haven’t bothered to specifically prove.

You talk of bias, right? Well, with Bias, you first have to establish that there is other information that actually materially changes the conclusion. Additionally, if the logic is to line up, your conclusion must match the modesty of the premises.

To claim bias without reviewing the story is to introduce a bias from the outset. You need to know the nature of the facts in the story in order to know whether the conclusion is warranted. You need to know the nature of the facts to determine the nature and degree of the possible bias, and even then, a claim of bias does not necessarily invalidate the given conclusion

It’s a cheap rhetorical trick to always claim bias, always claim dishonesty on the part of your opponents.

My argument, “if the members of the Trump campaign were in regular contact…”, presents a decision point. If the FBI genuinely has found those contacts, has them talking with these people, then combining that with the actions taken by the Russians in our Presidential campaign creates a worrisome combination of issues.

We need to know more. If there is to be a political reaction against this, I would have my people on solid factual ground, so if we do take action, it’s well-founded, something we can justify to reasonable people on your side. One purpose of logic is to create symmetry in the understanding of my personal decisions and conclusions in your mind, and vice versa. I’d like to be able to persuade those that have open minds that my course of action is correct, and on the other side of things, put pressure on those who deny it to argue the counterpoint.

If you’re going to mount a defense, I think it’s important for you to have the facts, too. One, it lets you pick your battle, pick where you’ll defend and what you’ll defend. It also helps you refute false accusations with more than just personal belief and emotionally driven arguments from ignorance. “Who knows,” is not a match for evidence of suspicious activity. It’s time to stop keeping us all ignorant. It’s time for an investigation, to blacken or clear Trump’s name as the facts will demand it.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 16, 2017 11:56 AM
Comment #413377


You are wasting your time trying to teach the fundamentals of logic to Royal Flush. A verbose diatribe isn’t going to change anything.


The DNC was careless

Do you really think things are any different at the RNC?
Was the Watergate break-in 45 years ago likewise nothing other than an example of the DNC’s carelessness?

When your conclusion is based on assumptions derived from “if it’s true” and “may or may not be,” rather than explicitly stated facts, it is severely influenced by personal bias.

Are you joining Royal Flush in his war against syllogisms? I understand that we don’t have enough facts to verify Stephen’s premises with 100% accuracy, but that shouldn’t impede one from formulating a valid conclusion. Whether or not the valid logic is also sound will be determined another day after the investigation is over.

Without a doubt, IF we find out that all these leaked reports are completely made-up fantasies, then Stephen will have to abandon his conclusion. But, absent evidence of that, we accept the veracity of the leaked information charitably. Using IF statements is a powerful logical tool and it is sad that this isn’t the first time conservative Watchbloggers have pilloried it.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 16, 2017 12:18 PM
Comment #413379

Many thanks to Stephen for taking time to explain his use of logic. I found it interesting and mostly in agreement with my thinking. However, he obviously is not aware of humor in writing.

Then he writes; “It’s time to stop keeping us all ignorant. It’s time for an investigation, to blacken or clear Trump’s name as the facts will demand it.”

OK, I’ll bite. Who is keeping us ignorant? Is it the cowards leaking information for fear of punishment for an illegal action? What concrete facts about Trump do you want investigated? How is he factually involved?

Please use facts, not opinion.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 16, 2017 1:16 PM
Comment #413384
Who is keeping us ignorant?

Congress. Republican chairmen of various committees have dragged their feet at every opportunity instead of subpoenaing relevant officials and documents and digging to discover the truth.

What concrete facts about Trump do you want investigated?

We investigate because we don’t have all the concrete facts yet. If we had concrete facts, then it would be time for indictments or it would be time to drop the matter. These are only some of the unanswered questions:

Did the Trump administrative communicate with Russian intelligence officials before the election?

What was the content of Flynn’s conversations with Kislyak?

Why wasn’t Michael Pence told about Flynn’s conversations with Kislyak in January? Why did it take the Washington Post to inform him?

What is the extent of Trump’s financial relationships overseas? This requires the release of Trump’s tax return.

Does the Russian government have compromising material on Donald Trump that could be used to blackmail him?

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 16, 2017 2:27 PM
Comment #413386

Thanks so much Warren.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 16, 2017 2:45 PM
Comment #413387


It is my personal opinion that the leaked intelligence reports are accurate, and not the result of some hatched grand conspiracy. If you choose to believe that Trump has been framed by US Intelligence, that is your right, but I assure you, the egg will be on your face, not mine, once Congress gets around to doing its job.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 16, 2017 3:04 PM
Comment #413388

Many thanks for your assurance Warren. As usual, I will wait for factual quotes…not opinion summations and speculation.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 16, 2017 3:24 PM
Comment #413389

Trump’s news conference today was enjoyable and informative.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 16, 2017 3:25 PM
Comment #413392

Yes, Trump told us that the leaked reports in the press are factual and not fanciful conspiracies.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 16, 2017 3:41 PM
Comment #413396

Yup, it is a fact that classified information was leaked. So?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 16, 2017 4:39 PM
Comment #413400

Royal Flush-
You’re missing the part where acknowledging that the evidence is real means acknowledging the possibility of collusion between Russian Foreign interests and the political campaign of our President. Especially problematic if those interests committed illegal acts in support of the campaign. Such as hacking the other Party’s private files.

Before you dismiss that, breaking into files is exactly what got the Watergate Burglars in trouble. Ordering that, and covering that up, is exactly what brought Nixon down.

Nixon at least served a term and a half before his scandal brought him down. Trump might undercut that score by a full term.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 16, 2017 5:18 PM
Comment #413402

Stephen, Talk about collusion with Russia, Hillary’s 20% sale of our uranium stockpile to Russia and Obama’s hot mike comment “I’ll have more latitude after the election”. There is no proof of anything except that someone is leaking classified material. Get over it Stephen YOU LOST, people don’t like your policies except the east and west coast no one in between.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 16, 2017 5:30 PM
Comment #413417
it is a fact that classified information was leaked. So?

The only remaining exculpatory scenarios for the Trump administration involve conspiracies within the IC to mislead the press or conspiracies within the press to mislead the public. Trump’s acknowledged that there is no conspiracy to frame him or his administration for crimes. All reports regarding his team’s contact with Russia are accurate.


There’s nothing Hillary could have done to prevent the sale of that U mining company.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 16, 2017 11:22 PM
Comment #413418

Warped, If I’m not mistaken didn’t she have to approve the sale?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 16, 2017 11:28 PM
Comment #413420

She was one of 9 voting members, all cabinet level people, so there is something that doesn’t seem right when the Obama Admin. can sell uranium to a unfriendly nation yet when Flynn talks to that countries ambassador it somehow is a major problem.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 16, 2017 11:39 PM
Comment #413423

I think Sessions will do the job Obamas AGs refused to do, and when he does our friends on the left will come unglued as their folks start to face charges. Leaking classified information is a crime, and when the Obama holdover, or career Bureaucrat is discovered they will regret their decision to leak that information.

Posted by: dbs at February 17, 2017 6:46 AM
Comment #413427

Do you realize some of the leaks are coming from inside the
White House?

Posted by: phx8 at February 17, 2017 10:10 AM
Comment #413428

Obama holdovers phx8

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 17, 2017 11:58 AM
Comment #413429

Obama holdovers? What, are they hiding behind the curtains? The people in the White House are all put there by Trump.

The WSJ picked up a story about the Intelligence Community withholding secrets from Trump, but that story originated in a magazine formerly owned by Kushner, Trump’s advisor and son-in-law, sold to a relative, and written by a hire of that relative.

Part of the problem is that there are several factions competing against one another for Trump’s ear, and they have the knives out for each other. There is the pro-Russian Flynn/Bannon faction of Islamaphones and White Supremacists, the GOP establishment/Dominionist faction of Pence/Priebus/Conway, and the Kushner/Ivanka faction. Meanwhile, Trump gives bizarre, rambling news conferences.

The story about Russian involvement in the election and possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia will not go away without a proper investigation. The GOP and Trump imagine they can stonewall and slow walk it until everyone forgets, but the Intelligence Community is not going to let that happen, and the dysfunction among the White House factions will only make it worse.

Posted by: phx8 at February 17, 2017 2:05 PM
Comment #413430

phx8, There are still some Obama holdovers that needed to be there until Trump gets his admin. filled. As far as Russia goes, how about Obama’s “I’ll have more latitude after the election”, The Russian reset, and the 20% uranium deal. Russia has been playing around for decades now and you are just now concerned about it? What rock have you been under?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 17, 2017 4:17 PM
Comment #413431

There are NO Obama holdovers in the White House. There are people from both the Obama, Bush, and even Clinton administrations in various positions in the federal government.

The Russians interfered with our elections in order to promote their candidate. They succeeded. No amount of ‘whataboutism’ can change this. Nothing remotely like this has ever happened before in American history. It matters.

The question is, did the Trump campaign collude with an adversary? Did Trump? He sure acts like it.

Posted by: phx8 at February 17, 2017 4:39 PM
Comment #413433

phx8, There were no voting machines hacked. I didn’t see anyone with a gun to their head while they voted. You guys have blamed a number of people and groups on why you lost and have settled on the Russians. You have had almost 5 months to show proof of Russian interference and nothing yet. The leaks are coming from somewhere and I pity who they are if they are found out and if they are Obama loyalist in the Admin.????????????

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 17, 2017 6:37 PM
Comment #413435

The FBI has been investigating and today, the day after the Senate closed for business, Director Comey briefed the
Senate Intel Committee for two hours. The subject supposedly was Russia. None of the Senators would say anything about it afterwards.

Russian interference with the election has already been recognized. The question is not if it happened, but whether the Trump campaign colluded.

Posted by: phx8 at February 17, 2017 10:49 PM
Comment #413465

1) Did Clinton have the power to hold up or approve the transaction in question?

No. The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) could only advise the President about the transaction. They had no veto power.

2) Did the Folks donating that “Clinton Cash” actually have a stake in the company at the time?

Mostly not. The majority of the 145 million donated by people related to that company (about 131 million) came from one guy, who had cashed out of the company three years earlier, and a year and a half before Clinton became Secretary of state.

So, the basic charge off of Clinton Cash accuses an official with no real power to make or break the deal in question of taking a bribe from a person who no longer could profit from the decision. The question of conflicts of interest in the Clinton Foundation was real, and one that was worth keeping an eye on.

The notion that Clinton sold us out to the Russians is pretty difficult to support. The quid was not Clintons to give or take. The quo was, in the vast majority, coming from somebody who would not profit whichever way she decided. So, no corrupt quid pro quo.

You guys love to go after what looks bad, and then when it comes up on your side, rationalize what actually is bad.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 19, 2017 2:12 PM
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