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DAESH celebrates propaganda coup

Seuss

Yesterday, Donald Trump decided to recognize Holocaust Remembrance Day by repeating some of the disastrous policies that led to the murder of approximately 6 million Jews seventy five years ago.

For the uninitiated, the United States turned away thousands Jewish refugees seeking asylum in the United States during the run-up to the war. Nearly everyone of those men and women denied asylum were murdered shortly thereafter. At the time, antisemitism promoted fears that Jewish refugees might endanger Americans. Indeed, there were several notable terrorist attacks in the early 20th century committed by immigrants in support of anarchism or communism. Accepting Jewish refugees into the United States posed risks Americans were not willing to take.

Seventy years ago, the West discovered the true extent of Hitler's Final Solution. At the time, everyone swore, "Never Again". As a part of that promise, the United States became a beacon of hope for the world's oppressed in the ensuing years. Its unique melting pot accepted refugees from every war and conflict and forged each of them into Americans. We always put these refugees through extreme vetting procedures in order to do everything possible to make sure no one is admitted who wishes to do us harm.

Speaking to Congress in 2015, James Comey discussed the extreme vetting procedure as it stood at the time. Namely, Comey was quite proud at the vast improvements made over the past eight years in the vetting process, "We have gotten much better at organizing ourselves so that we get a complete picture of what we know about somebody. We learned some lessons from Iraqi refugees eight years or so ago. If there's a ripple this person has created in our pond, I'm confident we will see it." Now, there is the caveat that there is a small risk of admitting a person who has never made such a ripple, yet still wishes to inflict harm upon Americans. It's an inherent property of our universe that no system designed or implemented by men is perfect and everyday, we accept the small risk of catastrophe in order to realize the benefits of our modern world.

Alas, this tradition of extreme vetting, which made America great, is over. Our feckless leader has made the tragic mistake of forbidding the entrance of persons from seven nations into our country. The entire tragedy is all prefaced upon the idea that this will keep Americans safe. Sadly, there is no evidence to support this claim. Notably, there are no examples of any citizens from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen ever committing a multi-casualty terrorist attack in the United States. Perhaps if Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Pakistan had been included, this sort of measure would at least have a semblance of rationality behind it. On second thought, Donald Trump's businesses have extensive interests in Saudi Arabia and other risky nations not included in yesterday's executive order, so maybe there is a rational basis to this after all.

Of course, the real risk to American security comes from our own citizens. Radicalized by DAESH propaganda online, they lashed out in delusional anger. From Boston to Orlando to San Bernardino, scores of American casualties have resulted from Anwar Al-Awlaki's screeds. While Al-Awlaki is dead thanks to Obama, his brethren continue to create and disseminate vile videos falsely portraying the War on Terrorism as a clash of civilizations between Islamdom and Christendom. Winning the war on terror means winning the hearts and minds of a billion plus Muslims around the world and convincing them that the US is a friend and not a foe.

Shutting down the extreme vetting process and preventing even US legal residents from entering the country is antithetical to these goals. Trump's policies only fuel anti-American hatred. We gain nothing from forcing Hameed Khalid Darweesh or Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi to return to Iraq. We all must urge Donald Trump to restructure his executive order so that it does something other than target people with completely benign motivations. As long as this counter-productive policy stays in place, it will remain a testament to President Trump's cowardice.

The good news is that the resistance to Trump is emerging. A diverse coalition of Americans of all stripes are coming together to take their country back from its usurpers. Trumpism is anathema to this country's foundational ideals. Those founding principles will be restored to their proper place soon enough. In the immortal words of Langston Hughes, we will "Let America be America Again".

Posted by Warren Porter at January 28, 2017 9:07 AM
Comments
Comment #412629

Do you think that if Trump’s holdings in foreign countries gets attacked, it would be an act of war?

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 28, 2017 1:21 PM
Comment #412631

Indeed, extreme measures Warren.

“The refugee order would impose an indefinite ban on those coming from Syria and would halt the nation’s broader refugee program for at least 120 days.

It also would suspend visas for people from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen for at least 30 days.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 28, 2017 2:29 PM
Comment #412633

This needs to be sorted out and fixed before allowing immigrants from terrorist countries a chance to come to America.

“Under the Obama administration, 1,811 aliens from terrorist countries were granted U.S. citizenship instead of being deported—and the Obama administration ended the program that uncovered the extensive fraud.

The scope of the problem is massive: “Fingerprints are missing from federal databases for as many as 315,000 immigrants with final deportation orders or who are fugitive criminals,” the Associated Press stated. “Immigration and Customs Enforcement has not reviewed about 148,000 of those immigrants’ files to add fingerprints to the digital record.”

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/23/obama-administration-shut-down-whistleblower-program-revealing-1811-aliens-from-terrorist-countries-granted-citizenship/

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 28, 2017 4:11 PM
Comment #412634

Immigrants from “terrorist countries” are not the problem. Terrorists are the problem. Not one terrorist attack on American soil came from the “terrorist countries” that were subjected to the ban. Interestingly, the countries where Trump has business interests and did have immigrants who launched terrorist attacks in the US were not included in the ban.

The ban is probably illegal. It is certainly un-American and contrary to the values that made this country an example for others to follow.

People with green cards can not return. An Iraqi man who worked with the US military for 10 years, will not be allowed in. Dozens of people have been arrested at airports. This is truly a shameful episode in our history, truly shameful.

Then again, The US has a long history of actions contrary to our values and ideals. There is a dark side to the US- bans on Chinese, such as the Chinese Exlucsion Act of 1882, the internment of the Japanese in WWII, and more actions generally based on fear and prejudice. We see a president pushing for torture, which is illegal. We see a president totally ignoring the emoluments clause of the Constitution. The American nightmare is under way.

Posted by: phx8 at January 28, 2017 4:28 PM
Comment #412635

The American nightmare is under way.
Posted by: phx8 at January 28, 2017 4:28 PM

The American nightmare left the White House and flew to the Left Coast. Another American nightmare lost the election and hopefully remains retired.

The presidents first duty is to protect America and its citizens.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 28, 2017 4:38 PM
Comment #412637

Why would it be illegal phx8 Jimmy Carter did it to the Iranians that were in this country deporting and canceling Visa and blocking entry. Hell even FDR rounded up Japanese Americans and put them in camps.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 28, 2017 4:58 PM
Comment #412638

it is illegal because phx says it is. Isn’t that good enough?

Posted by: tom humes at January 28, 2017 5:03 PM
Comment #412639

“The US has a long history of actions contrary to our values and ideals.”

I feel quite certain that phx8 stole this line from an Obama speech.

Now, the Left is contending that protecting American citizens from possible terrorism is “contrary to our values and ideals.”

I wonder just how low the Left can stoop to express outrage over actions keeping us all safe from terrorism.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 28, 2017 5:12 PM
Comment #412640

The Trump administration is considering punishing states with sanctuary cities by withholding federal funding.

CA is considering withholding state funds that go to the federal government. OR and WA could probably go along. Since CA pays more than it takes in, while states like SC take in 7 times as much as they pay, we may be looking at the end of the American experiment. Too many Americans will not go along with this descent into fear and darkness.

RF,
“The presidents first duty is to protect America and its citizens.”

You sure?

KAP,
FDR was wrong to go along with the internment of the Japanese.

The comparison with Carter and the Iranians has been repeatedly debunked. Choose your fact checker:

http://www.snopes.com/jimmy-carter-banned-iranian-immigrants/

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/dec/17/why-trumps-muslim-ban-idea-isnt-really-same-jimmy-/

And just to repeat, not one terrorist attack on American soil came from immigrants from any of the banned countries.

tom humes,
Banning immigration based on religion is illegal. The ban by Trump targets Syrian Muslims but allows Syrian Christians. There is zero chance of that standing up in court, but in the meantime, the executive order will sow chaos and ill will.

And remember, the first target of an authoritarian is the free press.

This is what a dictatorship looks like in the beginning.

Posted by: phx8 at January 28, 2017 5:22 PM
Comment #412641

phx8 writes; “And remember, the first target of an authoritarian is the free press.”

Free from what? I suggest that our liberal Pals wipe the smile from their face and look at the facts regarding our “free” press. Does anyone believe the press we have today is what our founders choose to protect?

Regarding phx8 reporting states withholding money due the feds, I have seldom read funnier scripts.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 28, 2017 5:31 PM
Comment #412643

The Iraqis are considering banning Americans from Iraq. So much for fighting ISIS.

RF,
“Does anyone believe the press we have today is what our founders choose to protect?”

Yes.

You like to talk about the Founding Fathers. Review one of their biggest mistakes, the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Who do you think has more power? The Blue States or the federal government? Hint: 2/3 of the GNP comes from Blue States.

Posted by: phx8 at January 28, 2017 6:40 PM
Comment #412645
The presidents first duty is to protect America and its citizens.

The executive order neither neither America nor her citizens. However, neither of those are a President’s first duty. Our Constitution makes it clear that defending it takes precedence above all else.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 28, 2017 7:55 PM
Comment #412646

Sloppy me, replace the word “neither” with the word protects.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 28, 2017 7:56 PM
Comment #412648

How does removing the director of national intelligence from the national security council protect Americans? How does removing the cabinet official in charge of American nuclear weapons from the national security council protect Americans?

Why is it more important that Steve Bannon be a member of the national security council instead of the two aforementioned people?

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 28, 2017 8:35 PM
Comment #412649

WP,
I just saw that. An executive order removes the chief of the DNI and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from the National Security Council, and replaces them with Steve Bannon and General Flynn.

That is nuts.

That is really scary stuff.

This is what a what a dictatorship looks like as it begins. Bannon is a self-described “Leninist” who says he wants to crash the system and bring the establishment down. BTW, Bannon wrote the other executive orders along with Miller. Wonder if he wrote this one too, cutting out the non-partisan military and putting himself and Flynn at the top of the security hierarchy.

Posted by: phx8 at January 28, 2017 8:58 PM
Comment #412650

And so it begins.

So which of these Muslim countries attacked our navel forces, destroying most of the nations Pacific rim defenses? Then why are we comparing the internment of Japanese Americans, which was wrong, after this horrific attack with the banning of some people of a different religion than the president, from some countries that the president doesn’t do business with?

Is there no low standard bar that you guys have set for Trump and his one party government as well as for yourselves? When do you quit defending him and every move he makes? If he was black you guys …. well… you get the point.

On the Zeig Heil scale Royal rates a 7 Zeig Heils for this gem “Does anyone believe the press we have today is what our founders choose to protect?” The highest to date, Royal you should be proud, spoken like a real boot kissing collaborator. Propaganda minister Bannon must be proud of his work when he sees people like you spouting this nonsense. Defending Mein Trump at all cost to your integrity.


Posted by: j2t2 at January 28, 2017 9:08 PM
Comment #412651

Pure coincidence. It’s not like this executive orders would embolden one of Trump’s radical alt-right supporters, right?

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 28, 2017 9:50 PM
Comment #412652

In Newark, a man wearing a white robe over a red suit attacked Bishop Cruz during mass. Bishop Cruz, a Latino, was opening prayers to celebrate Roberto Clemente, a Puerto Rican. The man punched the bishop in the face, knocking him back onto the altar.

https://www.tapinto.net/sections/police-and-fire/articles/newark-bishop-assaulted-during-mass-in-cathedral

Posted by: phx8 at January 28, 2017 11:25 PM
Comment #412653

More slander, Warren Porter? Knee jerk reaction? Jumping to conclusions?

From your fake news comment:

Victoria Fire Marshal Tom Legler, who was on scene, said he had no theories about how the fire started. He said he would have to wait until the fire diminished to begin his investigation.


Perhaps, Warren Porter, you and the rest of your instigators on the left should take this advise:

Fire Chief Taner Drake encouraged the public not to jump to any conclusions about the fire cause.
Posted by: Weary Willie at January 29, 2017 10:49 AM
Comment #412654


I don’t know, Willie, it seems to pass the “Duck test”.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at January 29, 2017 11:55 AM
Comment #412655

That’s a pathetic response.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 29, 2017 12:22 PM
Comment #412656

Must have been spontaneous combustion. Hey, if the climate can change for no knowable reason, why can’t mosques just burst into flame anywhere, anytime, anyplace? It might have been one of those scientists participating in the Global Warming hoax. Or maybe a Hillary Clinton staffer running amok after drinking blood at an occult ritual.

Say, WW. That last thing about drinking blood was an example of fake news. You do recognize that was not true, right?

By the way, everyone notice what the far right does with the term “fake news”? It means news which is literally faked- it is intentionally based on a lie. Legitimate news sources do not do that. We are not just talking about slant or bias. We are talking about fabrications. Sadly, some of the commenters on WB are unable to make the distinction.

Trump accused the NYT of being “fake news.” The purposed is to delegitimize the free press. Remember, the first move of an authoritarian is to attack a free press.

“To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength.”
Justin Trudeau

A Canadian reminds us of what fundamental decency looks like. The US used to be a leader in humanitarian causes. We used to champion human rights, and stand by those suffering from persecution and war.

Now look at us.

On Holocaust Remembrance Day the Trump administration refused to say the word “Jew.” When asked, they asserted that was intentional.

Posted by: phx8 at January 29, 2017 12:28 PM
Comment #412657
Jumping to conclusions?

I said that the fire must have been a coincidence, but maybe you are right and I was a bit hasty to conclude that.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 29, 2017 2:59 PM
Comment #412658


“That’s a pathetic response.”

Coming from you Willie, that’s hysterical.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at January 29, 2017 3:24 PM
Comment #412659

” Legitimate news sources do not do that. We are not just talking about slant or bias. We are talking about fabrications.”

Really phx8. A few examples to prove you wrong were easily found.

NBC was caught rigging “side saddle” gas tanks in Chevy Pickups to create the false impression of a danger of explosion in a side impact collision.

NBC mis representing unclear audio of George Zimmermans 911 call after his shooting of Trayvon Martin.

CBS News was caught misrepresenting the nature and authenticity of documents related to former Pres George W Bush’s service in the Air National Guard and Dianne Sawyer and ABC’s 20/20 were caught rigging the results of a so called objective test of concealed carry effectiveness in a college setting by having the “shooter” know ahead of time where in the room the armed students would be sitting and forcing the armed defenders to dress in oversized T shirts and gloves to make it much more difficult for them to attempt to stop the attacker.

The forged documents about former President Bush’s Air National Guard service record caused the firing of four people at CBS, as well as permanently destroying the reputation and credibility of Dan Rather.

The so called documentary “Under the Gun” by Yahoo News Katie Couric and Stephanie Soechtig has been proven to be intentionally deceptively edited to produce a clearly fraudulent and pre determined agenda.

Brian Williams admitted that he fabricated key portions of a story he repeatedly told about his reporting experience during the Iraq War in 2003.


Posted by: Royal Flush at January 29, 2017 4:00 PM
Comment #412660

RF,
There are no links supporting your assertions, but let’s assume everything happened the way you said. In most of those cases there were consequences. People were fired. Anchors were demoted. Apologies were issued. The organizations proved their legitimacy by acknowledging errors and accepting consequences when they made mistakes. Stories are publicly retracted if necessary. No one argues the MSM is perfect. They do, however, behave in a responsible manner. There are journalistic ethics behind the reporting, and when there are failures, the failures are addressed.

With fake news, none of that occurs. The false stories are merely scrubbed from web sites.

In addition, fake news occurs primarily on social media. It usually appears on the web. There are examples of fake news in print, such as the National Enquirer, but the stories are obviously and laughably false. Despite assertions by the Enquirer that were repeated by Donald Trump, Ted Cruz does NOT have five mistresses and his father was NOT involved in the JFK assassination.

Fake news can also originate under murky circumstances. In the last election, the Russians promoted some on the web. Macedonians did too, primarily for the money, and not because of any political conviction.

Fake news thrives in the conservative echo chamber. A liberal put out some fake stories just to see what would happen. The fake ones targeting liberals failed. After a few comments, someone would debunk it, and the fake news item would fail to generate hits. Conservatives, however, shared fake items en masse. There was no debunking. Anything, no matter how unbelievable, was acceptable as long as it trashed Hillary Clinton.

Talk radio also promotes a lot of fake news, but it tends to get a pass precisely because it is not in writing. The audience is also a lot smaller.

Posted by: phx8 at January 29, 2017 4:16 PM
Comment #412661

Can my Leftie Pals explain why major Muslim countries that do not border Syria refuse to take in large numbers of refugees, except for Algeria and Egypt.

Turkey has taken in nearly two million refugees, according to the United Nations, and keeps the vast majority in refugee camps, and not assimilated into the general population. Why is that?

Arab refugees from the 1948 war of Israeli independence have been housed in Arab-run camps for seven decades and not assimilated into the general population. Why is that?

“More than four million Syrians have been forced to escape the never-ending civil war ravaging their country and the barbaric terror group carving a bloody trail across the Middle East.

The vast majority live in overcrowded refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq - all under threat from ISIS - and record numbers are making the perilously long journey to Europe.

Yet, as debate rages between politicians in Europe over how many they should take, nearby super-wealthy Gulf nations of Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain have refused to offer sanctuary to a single Syrian refugee.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222405/How-six-wealthiest-Gulf-Nations-refused-single-Syrian-refugee.html

Why is that?

From the same article comes this…”Gulf nations argue that accepting large numbers of Syrian refugees is a serious threat to the safety of its citizens because terrorists could hide themselves among civilians.”

Hmmm…does that reasoning sound familiar?

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 29, 2017 4:18 PM
Comment #412662

Thanks to phx8 for correcting himself about major news outlets and their talking heads that do fabricate stories. When found out they make amends. When not found out, they….?

Is anyone on WB defending “fake news”?

phx8 claims fake news “thrives in the conservative echo chamber.”

Yawn! Bullshit…just Bullshit.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 29, 2017 4:27 PM
Comment #412663

phx8 has his own echo chamber. Care to guess where he keeps it?

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 29, 2017 4:49 PM
Comment #412664

Weary, would that be where the “sun never shines”? LOL

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 29, 2017 5:03 PM
Comment #412666

Warren, who does “Adolph the Wolf” represent in your cartoon?

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 29, 2017 6:11 PM
Comment #412667

NOOOOOOOOO! Between his ears.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 29, 2017 6:45 PM
Comment #412668

Between Vladimir Putin, Bashar Al Assad, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and many other thugs, there is no shortage of wolves in this world.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 29, 2017 7:10 PM
Comment #412669

http://www.lynneolson.com/dr-seuss-and-adolf-the-wolf/

Geisel was also fond of savaging America First, the country’s biggest and most influential isolationist organization. One of his best 1941 cartoons featured a mother, labeled “America First,” reading a book called Adolf the Wolf to her frightened children. The caption reads: “…and the wolf chewed up the children and spit out their bones…But those were Foreign Children, and it really didn’t matter.”
Posted by: Weary Willie at January 29, 2017 7:25 PM
Comment #412670
Ted Cruz does NOT have five mistresses and his father was NOT involved in the JFK assassination.

But..but…but…. If it isn’t true well….Trump said it was, does that mean Trump is an enabler of fake news for political gain?

And Breitbart where does that leave them in the inquiring minds of those conservatives who think they are more legitimate than the network news outlets.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 29, 2017 7:33 PM
Comment #412673

The drawing on the cover of the Adolph the Wolf book looks a lot like a Trump caricature and the “it’s OK they are foreign kids” line made me think of Trump as well. I think it is a fitting image considering Trump’s religious persecution of people from countries he has no business connections with.

While Trump may not be trying to compete with the other wolves Warren mentioned, he is doing just that, perhaps not as overtly as some of them.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 29, 2017 11:57 PM
Comment #412674

Trump on the brain. Limbaugh says “Living rent free” in the heads of liberals. They’re starting to see Trumps behind every tree. I’m beginning to think they do have a mental problem. I think it’s envy.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 30, 2017 8:11 AM
Comment #412675

These attacks on America and our values, committed by our own people solely for political reasons, are pathetic and will only further our division and escalate the violence.

Temporarily pausing immigration from identified terrorist hotbeds is not unconstitutional. Especially when it’s being done in the name of national security.
IS and other muslim extremists are loyal to Islam, not a country. They travel to these hotbeds for training and battle because those government can not, or will not, do enough to prevent them from doing so. That is why places like Syria and Yemen are on the list, but not Saudi Arabia.

To demand the importing of foreigners when our own people struggle and suffer, is irresponsible and dangerous. Especially when these refugees and immigrants have no desire to be ‘forged’ into Americans. Their goal is not to assimilate into American culture, but instead for Americans to be forced to embrace and support their culture.

In regards to ‘fake news,’ the biggest fake news story of the day is that so-called blue states could possibly succeed on their own.

Posted by: kctim at January 30, 2017 9:31 AM
Comment #412676
They travel to these hotbeds for training and battle because those government can not, or will not, do enough to prevent them from doing so

kctim,

Friday’s EO applies to nationality and citizenship, not travel history. A Saudi man who spent three out of the last five years in Syria is not affected.

Precisely zero nationals from the seven specified nations have ever committed a terrorist attack on American soil. The danger we face today is from home-brew radicalization of citizens already here. Preventing said radicalization means winning the propaganda war, which will become much more difficult in light of this asinine immigration policy.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 9:45 AM
Comment #412678

The book “1984” returned to the best seller list for the first time since its publication. Its warnings about the malleability of truth for political aims, i.e., alternative facts, demands to disregard photographs and accept the word of the Chief Executive, building walls and scapegoating minorities and immigrants, and more, have made those warnings more relevant than ever.

Posted by: phx8 at January 30, 2017 10:25 AM
Comment #412680

No matter how much economic havoc is created when the rest of the world figures out how to survive without trading with the U.S. - or how many terrorists are created with his simple-minded strategies, it has become clear his followers will never lose faith and simply blame the New York Times or Hollywood or something.

And anyone of stature who dare publicly question the dictators orders gets tweeted at - which effectively means Trumps twitter army (his SS) launch an unrelenting internet trolling attack.

Posted by: Schwamp at January 30, 2017 11:32 AM
Comment #412681

Meanwhile, Trump is supposed to visit the UK, but that is looking like another disaster in the making. Normal protocol would be for Trump to meet Prince Charles, but Prince Charles has made it clear he will publicly confront Trump with the facts about Global Warming. Trump has vowed to “erupt” if confronted.

A petition to keep Trump out of the UK has already topped one million. Large protests are being organized.

Remember how conservatives thought Obama was a weak leader, and Trump would restore our standing on the international stage. About the only place Trump would be met with a welcome and a parade would be Russia- and remember, Muscovites, attendance at the parade will be mandatory!

Went to dinner with a group last night, and I was surprised at how many people knew about and were alarmed about Bannon stepping into an NSC position. A political officer sitting in on the NSC? Holy cow. It doesn’t get worse than that.

I was also surprised at how people objected to the attacks on science and the efforts to scrub information about Global Warming from web sites. People noticed. That’s not going to fly. Most of the data- and there were huge amounts- was already saved, but still…

kctim,
I think Trump will be gone before the West Coast leaves the union. It has been a total cluster already, and Trump has been in power for less than two weeks. And remember, these are self-inflicted wounds. Eventually, somewhere, something will really go wrong. It is terrible to even think about how this incompetent and awful administration would respond.

Posted by: phx8 at January 30, 2017 11:56 AM
Comment #412682

Warren,
Those areas are full of terrorists and travel to and from those areas should raise red flags for our allies. That is why President Obama designated them as “hotbeds” for terrorism.
Restricting travel from those places is just one more step terrorists have to overcome, it is not going to stop all terrorism, but with cooperation from our allies, it can only help.
Now, I’m not a fan of the EO, I think it would have been better for our reps to have discussed, debated and get done what needs to be done. But you guys are so focused on who is doing it that you have totally ignored why something needs to be done.
If the safety of Americans is all it takes for immigrants to seek radicalization, they don’t need to be here in the first place.

Phx8,
IF you honestly believe that beliefs, procedures, regulations and laws that we have had in our past, will somehow magically transform us into a ‘1984’ this time, you need some serious help with reality.
If 200+ years of America first and decades of liberal subversion haven’t destroyed our Republic, I highly doubt 4 years of Trump is going to.

Schwamp,
After 8 years of Obama’s Gestapo and media attacking anybody who dared disagree with him with false broad brush claims of racism, sexism, bigotry and hate, the left is getting off easy with a silly tweet here and there.

Posted by: kctim at January 30, 2017 12:21 PM
Comment #412684
you have totally ignored why something needs to be done.

Something certainly needed to be done and that was accomplished by Obama when he revoked visa waivers for people who visited the seven countries in question.

Mind you, this EO isn’t merely “something”. It is an extraordinary measure completely out of proportion with the threat it attempts to counter.

Restricting travel from those places is just one more step terrorists have to overcome
Except the EO does nothing of the sort. It targets people on the basis of nationality and citizenship NOT where they’ve traveled. An Iranian expat who has never been with a thousand miles of the Middle East for over a decade is not someone we need to be targeting like this. Remember, the Saudi citizen who spent three out of the last five years fighting in the Syrian Civil War is 100% eligible to enter the country according to this EO.
If the safety of Americans is all it takes for immigrants to seek radicalization, they don’t need to be here in the first place.

Two flaws with your argument:

1. “Safety of Americans” is completely orthogonal as the EO does not keep Americans safe. It excludes nonthreatening people and does nothing to stop people who actually pose a risk.

2. The people who are vulnerable to radicalization are not immigrants, but rather 2nd generation Americans already here.

If 200+ years of America first and decades of liberal subversion haven’t destroyed our Republic, I highly doubt 4 years of Trump is going to.
If “America First” was so great, then why did Theodor Geisel dedicate three years of his life drawing cartoons opposing it?
After 8 years of Obama’s Gestapo and media attacking anybody who dared disagree with him with false broad brush claims of racism, sexism, bigotry and hate, the left is getting off easy with a silly tweet here and there.
This is the stupidest tu quoque that I’ve ever heard. Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 12:54 PM
Comment #412685

8 U.S. Code 1182, Inadmissable Aliens. To all left leaners read it.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 30, 2017 1:35 PM
Comment #412686

KAP,

I fully support the President’s right to bar entry to specific persons or classes of people when to do otherwise would imperil Americans’ safety and security. The problem is that Friday’s EO decidedly lacks any such rationale as it targets people who are not a threat to US citizens and arguably makes us less safe by providing propaganda ammo to our foe’s recruiters.

Additionally, laws which grant the executive branch a great deal of discretion may become unconstitutional when that discretion is applied in a bigoted fashion in order to discriminate. In light of Rudy Giuliani’s statement over the weekend as well as Trump’s campaign rhetoric, the case will be made that Friday’s EO is essentially a watered down version of the unconstitutional “complete and total shutdown of Muslim immigration” that Trump imagined 14 months ago.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 1:56 PM
Comment #412687

“was accomplished by Obama”

No, it was not “accomplished by Obama,” it was addressed by President Obama. The problems the world faces with terrorism are fluid and President Obama addressed them in the way he believed best.

This EO isn’t even half as ‘extraordinary’ as you guys want it to be.

“Except the EO does nothing of the sort. It targets people on the basis of nationality and citizenship NOT where they’ve traveled.”

It DOES restrict the travel of those with the nationality and citizenship of the countries on the freaking list. We must rely on our allies in the area to help with those like that Saudi terrorist you mention.
Of course, neither you Iranian angel or Saudi terrorist would be any problem IF this was anything close to being a ban on muslims like you guys are claiming, would it.

“It excludes nonthreatening people and does nothing to stop people who actually pose a risk.”

It does BOTH, Warren. It is ridiculous to even try to claim that actual terrorists are not turned away.

“The people who are vulnerable to radicalization are not immigrants, but rather 2nd generation Americans already here.”

Then why in the he11 will stricter immigration rules turn them into American hating radicals? IF they love America so much, why would they fall for such, as you say, propaganda?

“If “America First” was so great, then why did Theodor Geisel dedicate three years of his life drawing cartoons opposing it?”

I have no idea, and I couldn’t care less what a cartoonist thinks, but from what I just read, I would say it is just like the leftists of today, because he viewed everything to the right of socialism as fascism.

“This is the stupidest tu quoque that I’ve ever heard.”

I wasn’t pointing out the hypocrisy of the comment, I was pointing out the stupidity of it.

Posted by: kctim at January 30, 2017 2:08 PM
Comment #412688

Phx8, the left coast can’t leave the union. They could not make it on their own and any attempt to do so would fail miserably.

Posted by: kctim at January 30, 2017 2:12 PM
Comment #412689

Warped, Those 7 countries were picked by the Obama Administration as hot beds of Terrorist and training camps. All Trump is doing is what Obama and 5 other presidents have done before him. Where was the outrage in 2011 when Obama banned Iraqies from this country for 6 months because of 2 instances involving Iraqies? All because these countries are PREDOMINITLY MUSLIM you lefties scream it’s a MUSLIM BAN, when it is pure BULLSHIT and NOT a MUSLIM BAN. What about the other, I forget how many that are MUSLIM countries that are not on the list.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 30, 2017 2:17 PM
Comment #412690

“The drawing on the cover of the Adolph the Wolf book looks a lot like a Trump caricature and the “it’s OK they are foreign kids” line made me think of Trump as well.”

I knew some brain challenged Leftie would bite when I asked Warren the question. Thanks j2t2.

The United States has one of the most generous immigration systems in the world. A brief pause in immigration to tweak the system to be more effective is warranted and appreciated.

ISIS terrorists have openly stated their aims of infiltrating our borders to kill Americans.

Now look at what President Trump has accomplished in his brief time in office.

“A White House readout of the call between President Trump and Saudi Arabian King Salman bin Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud said that the King agreed to “support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, as well as supporting other ideas to help the many refugees who are displaced by the ongoing conflicts.”

The readout of the call between Trump and Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Sheikh Muhammad bin Zayid Al Nuhayyan of the United Arab Emirates was less specific but shared the same sentiment. “The President also raised the idea of supporting safe zones for the refugees displaced by the conflict in the region, and the Crown Prince agreed to support this initiative,” the White House said.”

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/trump-saudi-arabia-agrees-help-president-create-safe-zones-refugees/?utm_source=SailThru%26utm_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=TPI%20Newsletter%2001-30-17%20Curated/Horizon%20Tier%201&utm_term=Tier%201%20Real

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 2:23 PM
Comment #412691

kctim,

We must rely on our allies in the area to help with those like that Saudi terrorist you mention.

Why must we rely on “allies in the area” to protect against Saudis but not Iranians? Why can’t we issue a blanket prohibition on the entrance of Saudi citizens like we did for the other seven nations?

Conversely, why isn’t it an option for us to rely on “allies in the area” in order to vet people from the seven designated nations.

It is ridiculous to even try to claim that actual terrorists are not turned away.
“Actual terrorists” don’t pass through multiple stages of extreme vetting by the USG and international organizations. Remember, the number of nationals from these seven countries who have committed terrorist acts in the US is zero.
Then why in the he11 will stricter immigration rules turn them into American hating radicals? IF they love America so much, why would they fall for such, as you say, propaganda?
They may be born here, but they may not love their home country so much if they feel America mistreats their brethren abroad

KAP,

Where was the outrage in 2011 when Obama banned Iraqies from this country for 6 months because of 2 instances involving Iraqies

Because there were two instances involving Iraqis, no outrage was warranted. Also, Obama did not prohibit people from entering who had already been approved, he just added extra red tape to the process for new applicants.

RF,

ISIS terrorists have openly stated their aims of infiltrating our borders to kill Americans.

And we all know ISIS terrorists never lie, right? There’s absolutely nothing they could possibly gain from an asinine overreaction like this, right?

the King agreed
Talk is cheap. Let me know when the blood of Emirati and Saudi soldiers is in the offer. Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 3:11 PM
Comment #412692

Warped, Spoken like a true liberal. It’s fine if you do it but shame on a conservative or Republican if they do it.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 30, 2017 3:14 PM
Comment #412693

If Trump wants to respond to a specific circumstance by altering the process for people from particular nations, I have no problem with it. What he mustn’t do is create broad general policies on the basis of myths Republicans tell themselves.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 3:21 PM
Comment #412694

I am saddened to read Warren’s latest post deriding the announcement by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to “support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, as well as supporting other ideas to help the many refugees who are displaced by the ongoing conflicts.”

Many thousands of lives may be saved by these actions which should be hailed as humanitarian rather than despised because Trump was involved.

Obviously, Warren agrees with the words from his cartoon posting as those saved may be “foreign children” and don’t really matter.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 3:28 PM
Comment #412695

RF, you twist my words in unimaginable ways. Safe zones are meaningless if there isn’t anything to back them up. Confusing that with the idea that I don’t care about the lives of foreign children is absolutely ludicrous.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 3:33 PM
Comment #412696

Warren believes that Saudi Arabia and the UAR are lying about supporting “safe zones”. He won’t, or can’t explain how he knows this, and simply expects us to believe his concerns.

Warren wants us to understand his concern about the lives of foreign children. Never mind the implication he intended to convey in the cartoon showing a woman “America First” as not caring.

Let us ponder for a moment. Can we figure out who “America First” might represent. Would it be the Left, Obama, Clinton? Nope, don’t think so. Could it be the Right and Trump? Bingo.

I conclude that Warren clearly desired to convey his message of hate for the half of America that doesn’t agree with the Left. It is clear to me that his message is that the Left care about children and the Right doesn’t.

But wait, that can’t be true if Warren makes fun of two Middle Eastern countries coming forward to help establish safe zones for children.

Is Warren simply conflicted; or is Warren just a common political flunkie who will cut off his nose to spite his face?



Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 3:53 PM
Comment #412697

RF,

Gaining UAE and SA “support” for safe zones does not save the lives of any innocent children. Lauding such inaction in the face of crisis is exactly the sort of thing Mrs. America First might have done.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 4:17 PM
Comment #412698

More details coming out-
DHS was kept out of the loop on the immigration EO. Its head, Kelly, found out about the EO through the media, as well as DHS staff and Customs & Border Patrol. DHS had previously objected to the exclusion of green card holders, and for a grace period so that travelers would not be stranded. Bannon & Miller & Trump did this.

Now the mass firings of the top echelon of the State Department make more sense.

Back in July, the infamous Dossier said Putin offered Trump 19% of Rosneft, the giant Russian oil company, in exchange for lifting sanctions. Last Wednesday, 19.5% of Rosneft was sold to an unknown buyer, with the purchase going through a maze of shell companies.

Trump declared he is a presidential candidate for 2020. Why does this matter? This means campaign money- and bribes- can go directly to his businesses, and no one can do anything about it.

Posted by: phx8 at January 30, 2017 4:21 PM
Comment #412699

Sure Warren, we understand. Words and promises only have meaning if uttered by those approved of by The Left.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 4:28 PM
Comment #412700

Warren,

“Why must we rely on “allies in the area” to protect against Saudis but not Iranians?”

Saudis are so-called ‘allies’, Iranians are our enemy.

“Conversely, why isn’t it an option for us to rely on “allies in the area” in order to vet people from the seven designated nations.”

Which of the seven designated nations are not a hotbed of terrorism and are our ally?

“Actual terrorists” don’t pass through multiple stages of extreme vetting by the USG and international organizations.”

While I disagree with your idea of ‘extreme vetting,’ there is no doubt that actual terrorists continue to try, or that it is way too soon to declare no actual terrorists have made it through and are waiting for the right time. You know darn well that the sh*t is going to hit the fan as soon as one of those refugees does something.

“They may be born here, but they may not love their home country so much if they feel America mistreats their brethren abroad”

Then their priorities are messed up and they have no desire to be Americans first.

Posted by: kctim at January 30, 2017 5:56 PM
Comment #412701
Saudis are so-called ‘allies’, Iranians are our enemy… Which of the seven designated nations are not a hotbed of terrorism and are our ally?

Aren’t the Saudis much better situated to vet a Yemeni trying to fly from Riyadh to New York than a Saudi citizen flying from Istanbul to New York?

While I disagree with your idea of ‘extreme vetting,’ there is no doubt that actual terrorists continue to try, or that it is way too soon to declare no actual terrorists have made it through and are waiting for the right time. You know darn well that the sh*t is going to hit the fan as soon as one of those refugees does something.

I understand it is difficult to truthfully allege an absolute. After all, single bad apple can invalidate such a claim. However, I am certain that the number of actual terrorists impacted by Friday’s EO is absolutely trivial.

Trump has cut off America’s nose to spite its face and you continue to focus on the nose’s imperfections. How sad.

Then their priorities are messed up and they have no desire to be Americans first.
I know I would express similar attitudes if America mistreated Israelis and other Jews abroad. Are my priorities messed up? Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 6:59 PM
Comment #412702

My Leftie Buddies are simply amazing. They claim to know what “America is all about”.

They are so certain of their superior Constitutional knowledge that they establish sanctuary cities to shield those who deliberately break our laws. They then support these law-breakers with the tax money collected from working American citizens, after taking out a cut for themselves. With no concern for voting being a privilege of citizenship, they invite these same lawbreakers to vote in our elections.

My Pals understand how to take advantage of the system. They have been carefully schooled in the art of street demonstration. There are endless reasons for demonstrations in the United States as the Left tells us that we are a nation of abominable “isms”.

Knowing that violence, mayhem, and chanting in the street makes terrific TV viewing, even the teenager with a telephone can become famous for an instant.

Some of us wonder why we see no demonstrations against violence in the big city neighborhoods where violence is conceived and nurtured.

Some of us wonder why we see working age people in the street rather than at work, at school, or home with their children.


Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 7:06 PM
Comment #412703

Are my priorities messed up? Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 6:59 PM

Yes.

American citizens decide who we allow into our country. They do this through their elected representatives, not by mobs demonstrating in the street.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 7:12 PM
Comment #412705

My loyalties are to ideals on which the United States was founded, not to the actual nation state. If the government abandons those ideals, then I will abandon that government.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 7:19 PM
Comment #412706

It is sad to watch the formerly Great and Highly Honored Democrat Party descend into a loose confederation of a few chiefs leading tribes of malcontents against the very substance of American greatness…namely,

Law, Order, Freedom and Liberty for its citizens.

Shall we imagine for a moment what the Democrat nominee for President of the United States will look like in 2020?

I will start and perhaps others can add their ideas.

1. A women

2. Mixed race

3. Atheist or agnostic

4. Law degree

5. Never married or divorced

6. Bise*ual

7.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 7:29 PM
Comment #412707

RF, you are going to have a lot of egg on your face when Andrew Cuomo secures the Democratic nomination for President in 3.5 years.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 30, 2017 7:36 PM
Comment #412708

It won’t be the first time I have been terribly wrong Warren. I try to be correct in what I say and write. However, being “almost” human, I am prone to errors.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 30, 2017 7:39 PM
Comment #412723

Warren,

The Saudis are in a better position to monitor Saudis, and IF they are serious about combating terrorism, it is their duty to notify other countries if those on their lists travel to another country. Such information would hopefully stop that travel from Istanbul to New York.

“Trump has cut off America’s nose to spite its face and you continue to focus on the nose’s imperfections. How sad.”

I have already stated that I do not agree that this should have been done with an EO. That I would have preferred for Congress to have addressed this. But a temporary ‘ban’ on people from state sponsors of terrorism just doesn’t seem like the end of the world to me. And to be honest, if a democratic President had done the same thing, I don’t believe we would have these ‘protests’ and faux concern.

“I know I would express similar attitudes if America mistreated Israelis and other Jews abroad. Are my priorities messed up?”

Yes, putting fellow Americans second to others means one’s priorities as an American are ‘messed up.’

Posted by: kctim at January 31, 2017 10:03 AM
Comment #412734
The Saudis are in a better position to monitor Saudis
Wrong. Saudi Arabia does an abysmal job preventing its citizens from traveling to Syria to join the civil war there. In fact. If said citizen travels to Istanbul to catch a flight to New York, authorities in Riyadh are nearly helpless.

On the contrary, a Yemeni man who drives from Sana’a to Riyadh to catch a flight to New York is much more easily examined and scrutinized. If he happens to be on the list of terrorist suspects, apprehending him is relatively easy.

Yes, putting fellow Americans second to others means one’s priorities as an American are ‘messed up.’

I believe in God, Family and Country in that order. If you have a problem with that, you need help. Only a fool would abandon his own brethren overseas. Jews have been targets of oppression for centuries, it is only because of our grit and our loyalty to one another that we have persisted for this long.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 31, 2017 12:02 PM
Comment #412786

“Saudi Arabia does an abysmal job”

That does not mean they are not in a better position to monitor their own people who they know or suspect are involved in terrorism. ALL they can legally do with the Yemeni man is to check a list.
BOTH are key to combating terrorism, Warren. You would see that if you weren’t so dead set on convincing everyone that this EO is something it is not.

I believe in Family and Country, Warren. I am willing to die to protect either one, and I place their safety before others.
My only brothers are my fellow Americans and they are who receive my loyalty. Race, creed, color, sex, matters not.

I have absolutely no problem with you putting your country second to your religion and those who believe as you. That is your choice to make.
But, as an American, your freedom, safety and life are more important to me than your non-American “brethren overseas.”

Posted by: kctim at February 1, 2017 9:32 AM
Comment #412787

“Saudi Arabia does an abysmal job”

That does not mean they are not in a better position to monitor their own people who they know or suspect are involved in terrorism. ALL they can legally do with the Yemeni man is to check a list.
BOTH are key to combating terrorism, Warren. You would see that if you weren’t so dead set on convincing everyone that this EO is something it is not.

I believe in Family and Country, Warren. I am willing to die to protect either one, and I place their safety before others.
My only brothers are my fellow Americans and they are who receive my loyalty. Race, creed, color, s*x, matters not.

I have absolutely no problem with you putting your country second to your religion and those who believe as you. That is your choice to make.
But, as an American, your freedom, safety and life are more important to me than your non-American “brethren overseas.”

Posted by: kctim at February 1, 2017 9:40 AM
Comment #412791

The next Democratic presidential nominal will have those things, but they will also require:

1. A forked tongue
2. A straight face

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 1, 2017 11:01 AM
Comment #412792

Oh, and by the way, The America First lady represents the law in the WWII time frame. The wolf represents Adolf Hitler.

That’s it.

The cartoon has no relationship to today. Why?

Bacause it’s a cartoon that was drawn 60 years ago! By a man who’s been dead for years!


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 1, 2017 11:05 AM
Comment #412797
That does not mean they are not in a better position to monitor their own people who they know or suspect are involved in terrorism. ALL they can legally do with the Yemeni man is to check a list.

If the Saudi citizen isn’t living in Saudi Arabia, how does the Saudi government monitor him better than the Yemeni living in Riyadh?

I have absolutely no problem with you putting your country second to your religion and those who believe as you. That is your choice to make.
So, you take back your assertion that I am “messed up” for having greater loyalty to my fellow Jews than my fellow Americans?
But, as an American, your freedom, safety and life are more important to me than your non-American “brethren overseas.”
I don’t expect you to defend worldwide Jewry; that’s my job. Posted by: Warren Porter at February 1, 2017 4:02 PM
Comment #412799

WW,

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 1, 2017 4:05 PM
Comment #412803

Warren,

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing.

EB

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 1, 2017 5:07 PM
Comment #412812

RF,

Wise words indeed. Too bad you haven’t taken them to heart.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 1, 2017 8:50 PM
Comment #412822

Warren,
The Saudi government forwards the information they are aware of to other countries, who then use and share that information.
In order for the Saudi’s to monitor your Yemeni living in Riyadh, it must first know he is a suspected terrorist. Since Yemen is a state sponsor of terrorism and not all that cooperative in fighting terrorism, where exactly is Saudi going to get the information to know that they should monitor the Yemeni?

“So, you take back your assertion that I am “messed up” for having greater loyalty to my fellow Jews than my fellow Americans?”

What I said was “putting fellow Americans second to others means one’s priorities as an American are messed up.” It only strips away the only thing we all have in common and were once proud of: being an American.
Your greater loyalty to those few who share your religion rather than to all who share your country, speaks for itself. And it’s really no different than having a greater loyalty to one’s race, creed, gender, s*x, color or politics, than to their country.

Posted by: kctim at February 2, 2017 10:06 AM
Comment #412825

Being a Jew is being a member of a religion. Being an Israeli is being a citizen of Israel. There are Jews in the U.S. but they are American. There are Muslims in Israel, but they are Israeli.


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 2, 2017 10:35 AM
Comment #412826
In order for the Saudi’s to monitor your Yemeni living in Riyadh, it must first know he is a suspected terrorist.
Why does the Saudi government know the Saudi living in Riyadh is a suspected terrorist? Why can’t the same strategy be used to monitor the Yemeni citizen living in Riyadh?
Since Yemen is a state sponsor of terrorism and not all that cooperative in fighting terrorism
Only three nations are official state sponsors of terrorism: Iran, Sudan and Syria.

Not Yemen. In fact, the the government of Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi has been as steadfast ally of the United States as Saudi Arabia in fighting terrorism.

It only strips away the only thing we all have in common and were once proud of
What about our common humanity? Is that not something we can all share pride in? Ditto for our shared commitment to the classical liberal ideas borne during the Enlightenment?
means one’s priorities as an American are messed up
As an American, would you continue to prioritize your nation of birth if it abandoned every ideal you dearly hold? If America became a Fascist totalitarian state or a Marxist-Leninist dictatorship, would you still serve in its armies, aiding wanton destruction? Or would you be tempted to betray America to the forces of a foreign land provided that those forces represented the same libertarian values that you cherish so much? Posted by: Warren Porter at February 2, 2017 10:59 AM
Comment #412973

We saw what happens when our government abandons every ideal our nation holds dear. We kick the buggers out!

I know you can’t see that, Warren Porter. The left thinks half the country made a mistake. You’re right, they did make a mistake. However, it was the left that made the mistake.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 5, 2017 11:54 AM
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