Democrats & Liberals Archives

Trump is not Hitler (yet)

I understand that many of my brethren remain upset that the next President is a man who has stoked America’s racial divides and forged a new identity politics surrounding White nationalism. I understand that many people are upset that a demagogue will ascend to the Presidency despite receiving fewer votes than his opponent.

Many of these people are expressing their frustration and anger with peaceful demonstration and protest.

That said, these are not excuses for violence. Blocking highways, vandalizing property and disrupting commerce are not going to change anyone's mind and they are not in the American interest. There may be a time to do these things, but that time has not come to pass.

The 2016 campaign featured a candidate that poses many threats to America's fundamental culture and its values of freedom, equality and justice. However, the Reichstag has not been burned down. There is no "Enabling Act". Muslim immigration has not been banned. NATO remains positioned to counter Russian aggression. Armed enforcers are not storming Hispanic neighborhoods shouting "papers please". Nuclear weapon doctrine remains as MAD as it was before. The Leftists' nightmare has not realized itself yet.

I implore my fellow liberals, let us give Donald Trump a chance. We may not like the outcome, but he has won the right to govern the way he chooses. If Trump tramples upon fundamental liberties in pursuit of his ends, then that is the time for protests and backlash. However, until that happens we ought to adopt a wait and see approach. Donald Trump has promised many things. Until he is sworn in, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his more extreme rhetoric was not meant to be taken literally. I will hope that sitting in the Oval Office inspires Trump to be a President ALL Americans can believe in.

If the only difference between an Obama and a Trump Presidency is a conservative Supreme Court, a reduction in taxes and regulations and an increase in the enforcement of immigration law and defense spending, then I do not think the Left will have much to complain about apart from the standard fights that have been fought for decades. Sure, inflation might become disastrous and harm the poor, but Trump is no different than anyone else in that respect. I may not like these policies, but I can live with them.

Posted by Warren Porter at November 11, 2016 10:33 AM
Comments
Comment #409907

Take a moment today to thank a Veteran. It is thanks to them that we have the freedoms we cherish.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 11, 2016 1:23 PM
Comment #409912

Warren wrote; “If Trump tramples upon fundamental liberties in pursuit of his ends…”

I will join you in opposition. We may however disagree on just what “fundamental” means as relating to liberties.

I join Warren in thanking Veterans. I would hope that those protesting in our cities know and remember the men and women, who by their sacrifice, ensured our freedom and liberty.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 11, 2016 2:49 PM
Comment #409913
We may however disagree on just what “fundamental” means as relating to liberties.

I am sure we will have many invigorating discussion on Watchblog as to what liberties are fundamental and whether or not the US Government has an obligation to not violate the rights of non-citizens.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 11, 2016 3:14 PM
Comment #409914

Does…the “US Government has (have) an obligation to not violate the rights of non-citizens.”
Posted by: Warren Porter at November 11, 2016 3:14 PM

If you are referring to people in the US illegally, the law should apply.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 11, 2016 3:20 PM
Comment #409916

I was also referring to people detained overseas in counter-terrorism operations.

In any case, saying the law should apply suggests that a mere law can trump an unalienable right endowed by one’s Creator.

I am not going to suggest that foreigners have a fundamental right to live in this country or vote in our elections, but when they do come here, I do believe that they have same right to due process that you and I enjoy. Likewise for detainees suspected of terrorist activity.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 11, 2016 4:07 PM
Comment #409917

WP,
I am not too concerned about protests. The election outcome was a big shock, and a lot of people needed to blow off steam; not only that, a lot of people are scared, especially minorities.

My wife cried when she found out he was elected. She has been harassed in the workplace and fired by men like Trump. A lot of women feel that way. They have seen versions of this guy in powerful positions too many times in their lives.

While the policies seem like bad ideas, I think we can survive most of them intact. A big tax cut when the economy is healthy and increased military spending when we are not at war is an absolutely terrible idea. The thing is, I am not even sure Trump has the slightest interest in doing any of those things. Really. I don’t know. He is surrounding himself with people from the far right and a lot of lobbyists, but then, he does not seem to listen to anyone else. The establishment GOP, led by Ryan and McConnell, has its own agenda. Trump owes them nothing.

He talks trade wars. We will see. All the stuff he says about trade is so vague.

What Trump does care about, as far as I can tell, makes it impossible for me to support him. He won by being divisive, name calling, and encouraging hatred, first in the GOP primaries, then in the general. He said terrible things about Hillary Clinton and encouraged crowds to chant “lock her up.” He encouraged hatred of Obama, too, starting with his Birtherism in the 2012 campaign. He championed a racist conspiracy theory then, and has said many more terrible things.

What really worries me is the rise of the Alt Right. Trump unleashed the forces of racism and bigotry that has been kept on the edges for a long time. He mainstreamed them. Those people now feel free to be aggressive.

The press isn’t paying much attention. Yet. There are swastikas going up on walls, racist graffiti popping up, kids at schools saying terrible things, just like they hear their parents saying, and Trump made it acceptable.

A friend of mine is a fundamentalist Christian. His little girl is extremely upset by what is happening. She brought home a letter from school. Some of the kids are scared.

So you thinks we should not take his rhetoric seriously? I heard what he said. I will believe it until he proves otherwise.

Posted by: phx8 at November 11, 2016 5:24 PM
Comment #409918

By the way, the KKK is holding a big victory celebration in North Carolina next month.

Posted by: phx8 at November 11, 2016 5:26 PM
Comment #409920

You sound like a broken record, phx8. Children are scared because liberals are crying Chicken Little.

There would have been protests and scared children no matter what Republican won the President. There would have been protests and scared children because that’s what liberals do, they protest and scare children because they have no policies that can be acceptable to the American people.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 11, 2016 6:07 PM
Comment #409921

So, the media are going to gather in North Carolina next month?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 11, 2016 6:08 PM
Comment #409924

phx8 wrote; “He won by being divisive, name calling, and encouraging hatred, first in the GOP primaries, then in the general.”

It is so sad that even with all the analysis and actual votes cast some folks still don’t understand what happened and why.

I don’t really care if you believe half the country are “deplorable” as does Ms. Clinton. But, it would be better FOR YOU to try and understand.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 11, 2016 6:24 PM
Comment #409925

I have read reports of University students having “cry-in’s”, professors delaying classes and tests, and much more.

Are these emotional cripples going to crumble in the real world as doctors, nurses, educators, military leaders, politicians etc at the first challenge to their cozy brain-fantasy of eternal liberalism?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 11, 2016 6:31 PM
Comment #409926

By the way, the KKK is holding a big victory celebration in North Carolina next month.
Posted by: phx8 at November 11, 2016 5:26 PM

If true, there will be more news-people than clansmen, clanswomen, or clans-people.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 11, 2016 6:33 PM
Comment #409928

RF,
I distinctly heard Trump call for the media to investigate Ted Cruz and his five mistresses, and to look into his father’s involvement in the JFK assassination. That is absolutely nuts. And that guy is going to be the most powerful person in the world.

The United States did not have limitations on restriction for much of its existence. Resentment of immigrants, legal and illegal, has been part of our history. It has been part of the history of many countries.

The current situation is extraordinary because, for the first time, the United States may deport millions of people. By doing this we will be on the same page of the history books with a lot of countries we really, REALLY do not want to be associated with.

History is filled with examples of other countries that thought they were exceptional. History is filled with examples of countries that felt illegal and legal immigrants threatened their purity, their jobs, their economy, their religion, you name it. History is filled with persecutions and forced deportations of various groups- illegal aliens, legal ones, jews, blacks, slavs, and more- and it will be to our eternal shame if we carry out the threat to deport millions of human beings. We wouldn’t be the first to do it, but that is a group we should never belong to.

Posted by: phx8 at November 11, 2016 6:54 PM
Comment #409931

Just curious phx8, do you and your Liberal/Progressive Pals take any responsibility for all the illegals who have invaded our country?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 11, 2016 7:05 PM
Comment #409933

The guy is a recording. It’s programmed to spew hate and racism. And, he’s also WRONG AGAIN!

Eisenhower deported over a million illegals.

Truman deported over 100,000 and his policies prompted over 3 million voluntary deported.

Hoover deported illegals as well.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 11, 2016 8:26 PM
Comment #409936

Hitler? Trump is the one who has stoked racial divides, nothing about the last 8 years did? Fair representation from being a Constitutional Republic is bad?
Seriously Warren?

identity politics
n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)
Political attitudes or positions that focus on the concerns of social groups identified mainly on the basis of gender, race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation.

The leftist extremists have cornered the market when it comes to ‘identity politics’ and now that their scapegoat group has finally stood up and said enough, you want to try and associate them with racists? You want them to feel bad and guilty for being part of a group that leftist extremists placed them in?
You know, it would have been great if the left would have for once cared more about the country than they do about forcing their agenda onto everybody else, but as is typically so with them they are doubling down on further dividing it instead.

That kind of BS is exactly what helped create the movement that brought so many great Americans out to vote against Hillary. Combine that with the fact that Hillary was a VERY flawed candidate and you have the perfect recipe for the lefts election day disaster.

We have no idea of what kind of President that Trump will be and yes we need to give him a fair chance. But I’ll tell you right now that if those little anti American unconstitutional leftist extremist turds keep going how they are, they are eventually going to bite off WAY more than they can chew.
FFS man, they are burning the American flag and parading around with the Soviet and Mexican flags. They are calling for blood to be spilled in the name of some leftist revolution against the people who have the guns and who still respect the Constitution.

Instead of pleading with them to give Trump a chance, you should be telling the smart Democrats to take their party back from the leftist extremists who hijacked it.

Posted by: Kctim at November 12, 2016 12:58 AM
Comment #409939

“I am not too concerned about protests. The election outcome was a big shock, and a lot of people needed to blow off steam”

Really ? Destruction of property, assault and battery, and blocking of public hiways. Beating the crap out of people because they voted for, or you think they voted for Trump. This shit going is as you call it “blowing off steam”, is okay ?

Oddly I don’t remember republicans doing this either time Obama won the election. Says volumes about the character of a large portion of democrat voters.

Posted by: dbs at November 12, 2016 8:31 AM
Comment #409940

Kctim,

Democrats aren’t going to play the identity politics card. They are going to continue to be the only political party that actually respects the Constitution. The Left’s vision will continue to be one that benefits all Americans regardless of their race, creed or gender. This is going to be an America where the government doesn’t pick winners or loses, but rather ensures that everyone has a level playing field on which to compete.
If White Americans without college degrees insist that this country privilege them simply on account of their ancestry and their cultural values, Democrats are not going to oblige. In the long run, handing out goodies to White Americans without college degrees is a losing electoral strategy. Every year, they constitute a smaller and smaller proportion of voters. In a center-left nation, it is just a matter of time before voters get upset with Republicans and return Democrats to office.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 12, 2016 8:36 AM
Comment #409941

dbs,

Do you not remember the Tea Party riots of 2010?

Both sides of the aisle are handling things poorly. The boorish behavior needs to stop.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Vandals-Scrawl-Pro-and-Hate-Trump-Messages-in-Philadelphia-400570621.html

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 12, 2016 8:51 AM
Comment #409946

In a center-left nation, it is just a matter of time before voters get upset with Republicans and return Democrats to office.
Posted by: Warren Porter at November 12, 2016 8:36 AM

The Democrat Party is in shambles. Republicans now hold nearly a record number of governorship’s and state legislature majorities along with the presidency, senate and house.

Exactly where is the failure.

I hope Mr. Trump and this congress can return some of the power, usurped by Washington, back to the states as originally intended by our founders.

The stronger and more responsive to the people our states become; the stronger our Union will be.

Tea Party Riots like this one Warren?

“When hundreds of tea-party protesters – including many elderly women – gathered outside a civic center where President Obama was giving a public speech Wednesday, they were surprised to be greeted by police dispatched in full riot gear.

After Obama’s motorcade arrived, a Secret Service agent instructed protesters to move across the street. The crowd began singing “God Bless, America” and the National Anthem. Quincy Deputy Police Chief Ron Dreyer ordered police in full riot gear to march up the street and stand between the tea partiers and the civic center.

Snipers were also spotted on the rooftop of the building.”

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2010/04/147417/#Hyo2XMAKdcHFx8as.99

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 12, 2016 1:11 PM
Comment #409949
Hitler? Trump is the one who has stoked racial divides, nothing about the last 8 years did? Fair representation from being a Constitutional Republic is bad?

Kctim, wasn’t the last 8 years a response to the growing far right identity politics of the previous 8 years? The upswing in hate groups and the infiltration of police forces around the country by members of hate groups such as the KKK and the various militias resulted in a focus by minorities on “identity politics” IMHO.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 12, 2016 2:46 PM
Comment #409950

j2, I am just not politically savvy enough to actually understand the meaning of your response to kctim. Translation please.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 12, 2016 3:05 PM
Comment #409952

Royal I am asking for kctim’s opinion on whether the upsurge in activity by white supremacist groups in the 90’s and 00’s are part of the reason for racial divides. It seems to me kctim has blamed Obama and blacks instead of white supremacist for the racial divide in this country, incorrectly I might add, as if the racial divide was started by those that have fought against it recently. It existed before Obama. Trump has given hope to many on the far right with his rhetoric judging from the hateful comments after the Trump victory this week.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656

Posted by: j2t2 at November 12, 2016 3:51 PM
Comment #409953

Thanks for the explanation j2. Frankly, I don’t believe the “white supremacist” numbers in this country are great enough to cause any significant “divides”.

Any racial divides we have in the country are almost exclusively fueled by politicians and politics.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 12, 2016 4:12 PM
Comment #409954

Warren,
The liberal platform is based on ‘the identity politics card.’ That is why they group people so as to pander to them with promises of special treatment for their group.
But now that the one group not asking for special treatment has spoken up, you want to blame them for playing identity politics and call them racists?
As I said, there is so much you leftists could learn from this election IF the country was what’s important to you.

You can save the BS about Democrats respecting the Constitution, for the clueless sheep who would believe such nonsense. Especially today’s liberal democrats.
People who respect it aren’t going to be the same ones trying to reinterpret and bypass it. They aren’t going to be the ones using government to control behavior, suppress beliefs and forcefully take from one to give to another.

Posted by: Kctim at November 12, 2016 5:16 PM
Comment #409955

Royal politicians react to the will of the people, or at the least the will of the people they agree with and they get donations from. Of course we have the media fueling the racial divide as well by reporting on racial incidents. But it is the people, lets face it all of us people are racists to a certain degree, that do the deeds or in your terms fuel the fire.

I would agree the hard core white supremacist numbers are few when compared to the total population. However the number increases significantly, IMHO, with the not quite as overt racist. Look how many came out to vote for Trump, do you think they did that because of his regressive taxation policies? I have to many conservative relatives and friends to think otherwise. Many are Fox news and only Fox news types who are in fact fueled by the propaganda that is Faux news.

I laugh at those who would blame Obama, as he tries to mitigate the problem, for being the problem. They seem to be the same people who blames government for everything.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 12, 2016 5:22 PM
Comment #409956

J2,
ACTUAL examples and numbers of ‘white supremacy’ are so few to mean anything. You guys have been trying to push leftist policy by comparing everybody who disagrees with it to racists for so long, you have actually started to believe your own lies.

Obama was President when the ‘disagreement = racism’ BS was started and promoted.

Posted by: Kctim at November 12, 2016 5:24 PM
Comment #409957

He just called his friends and relatives racists.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 12, 2016 6:03 PM
Comment #409958
The liberal platform is based on ‘the identity politics card.’

The liberal platform is based on equal rights for all, which is as far away from identity politics as one can possibly get.

That is why they group people so as to pander to them with promises of special treatment for their group.

At this point, you are just projecting Republicans’ tendency to pander to the White Working Class onto the Democratic Party. I reiterate, Democrats advocate equal treatment, not special treatment.

But now that the one group not asking for special treatment has spoken up, you want to blame them for playing identity politics and call them racists?
By “speaking up” are these people not asking for special treatment? They want people like me to pay more money just so they can have their manufacturing jobs back. Sorry, but I’m not interested in diminishing my lifestyle because these sorry asses can’t put in the effort to adapt to a changing economy.
They aren’t going to be the ones using government to control behavior, suppress beliefs and forcefully take from one to give to another.
This is the Republican policy prescription, not the Democratic one. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 12, 2016 6:30 PM
Comment #409959
ACTUAL examples and numbers of ‘white supremacy’ are so few to mean anything.

How can you say that kctim? There are more white supremacist than cases of voter fraud yet conservatives passed laws in half the states to stop voter fraud.


Oh kctim you probably said the same thing when us leftist told the King of England to go piss up a rope

Obama was President when the ‘disagreement = racism’ BS was started and promoted.

Sure and everything else according to you guys. Hell Before Obama when the King of England made the rules here in the colonies and all was perfect, before we had accrued a penny of debt, or women had the right to vote your mythological “‘disagreement = racism’ BS” may have been off the radar.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 12, 2016 8:09 PM
Comment #409975

j2t2, you’ll feel better if you beat up a few more babies.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 13, 2016 8:23 AM
Comment #409998
j2t2, you’ll feel better if you beat up a few more babies. Posted by: Weary Willie at November 13, 2016 8:23 AM

Weary you seem to have me confused with a Trump voter! How silly of you.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 13, 2016 12:59 PM
Comment #410061

“The liberal platform is based on equal rights for all,”

Horse-puckey, Warren. IF that were the case it would not promote treating one person differently than another

“At this point, you are just projecting Republicans’ tendency to pander to the White Working Class onto the Democratic Party.”

How about some examples of Republicans using government to specifically help whites, and only whites?

“I reiterate, Democrats advocate equal treatment, not special treatment.”

Equal treatment is respecting the rights of ALL, not the desires of the few. Democrats ‘advocate’ taking rights and property from one in order to benefit another. That is special treatment, Warren.

“By “speaking up” are these people not asking for special treatment?”

Um, no. They are actually saying ‘ENOUGH.’

“They want people like me to pay more money just so they can have their manufacturing jobs back.”

Not sure what world you live in, Warren, but they want you to pay more money in order to pay for the government that YOU desire.

“Sorry, but I’m not interested in diminishing my lifestyle because these sorry asses can’t put in the effort to adapt to a changing economy.”

Yet the foundation of liberalism is based on diminishing one person’s lifestyle by taking from them, and giving it to another to ‘better’ their lifestyle with materialism.

“This is the Republican policy prescription, not the Democratic one.”

That is absolutely the silliest thing you have ever said on here.

Posted by: kctim at November 14, 2016 5:42 PM
Comment #410062

J2,

In a country of 320+ million people there are only a few thousand actual ‘white supremacists’ and they have been marginalized into nothing by the vast majority of white folks.

It is a fact that liberals have been using false claims of racism, sexist, homophobia, xenophobia etc… to silence the rejection of liberal policy. Such nonsense hit its apex while Obama was President.

I have no idea why you are bringing up the King of England, but if you seriously believe today’s leftists are in any way responsible for the founding of this nation, you need help.

Posted by: kctim at November 14, 2016 5:57 PM
Comment #410174
Horse-puckey, Warren. IF that were the case it would not promote treating one person differently than another

With the sole exception of Affirmative Action, nothing in the platform promotes treating one person than another.

How about some examples of Republicans using government to specifically help whites, and only whites?

How about enforcing immigration law against unskilled laborers from Latin America, but not against supermodels from Slovenia?

Democrats ‘advocate’ taking rights and property from one in order to benefit another
Democrats never advocate taking rights or property from one group of people in order to benefit another. Sure, individuals pay taxes and other individuals benefit from government services. But (aside from affirmative action) the process is blind to any person’s exogenous attributes.
Equal treatment is respecting the rights of ALL, not the desires of the few
Taking away the wannabe murderer’s right to kill is not elevating the desires of his few intended victims, it is respecting the rights of all
Not sure what world you live in, Warren, but they want you to pay more money in order to pay for the government that YOU desire.
I do not know where you got this. I do not desire a government that wages trade wars in order to subsidize manufacturing jobs in the rust belt, nor have I ever expressed such a desire.
Yet the foundation of liberalism is based on diminishing one person’s lifestyle by taking from them, and giving it to another to ‘better’ their lifestyle with materialism.
Nope, what you describe is anathema to liberalism.
That is absolutely the silliest thing you have ever said on here.
Yet, here we are, on the precipice of a Republican administration that has promised to forcefully take wealth from coastal elites and redistribute it to the rust belt. We have been promised that the government’s cudgel will be used to control people’s sexual identity and medical decisionmaking. We have been promised that pro-immigrant and anti-racist beliefs will be suppressed. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2016 3:19 PM
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