Democrats & Liberals Archives

Critics Still Complaining About the September 2012 Jobs Report

The New York Post brings us this laughable piece: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report. Wow. Where to begin?

The story is that the jump from 8.1% in August 2012 to 7.8% in September 2012 was due to manipulated numbers. Never mind the fact that unemployment went up in October 2012 to 7.9%. I guess October 2012 just wasn't manipulated enough like September was.

The entire premise of this argument is that the report needed to be faked to help with the election. It didn't. The media kept kicking around this idea that no president had been reelected with unemployment above 8%. It was somehow this magic number that President Obama would want to be below or it would be time for packing boxes. The only problem is that since the 1920's no president has run for election with unemployment above 8% except Roosevelt and he won.

That 8%+ is rare. Until 2009, the years 1983, 1975, 1950 were the only times since the Great Depression that unemployment was above 8% for any period of time. No one was running for election in 1983 or 1975 or 1950.

If these numbers were fudged though surely we'd see other sources show no such decline over that time. But Gallup for instance showed that unemployment was as high as 8.4% in August and as low as 7.7% in September. I guess they got to Gallup too?

But let's ignore the idea that there was no reason to fake the report and other sources showed similar declines in unemployment over that time. Is there any merit to the suggestion it was faked? Not really, no.

New York Post has an anonymous source that tells us more than one person working for the Census was fudging the numbers on purpose during that time. You might could believe that one or two or even a handful of people were in on such a conspiracy. The trouble is you'd need way more than a handful of people fudging numbers to effect a change like that. There are 2,200 people who interview 60,000 households accounting for 110,000 individuals surveyed each month. Since each of the 2,200 only interview about 27 households on average you'd need dozens upon dozens of people involved in fudging these numbers and you'd need all of them to keep quiet of such a conspiracy.

So why is there so much energy put into still trying to prove the numbers were faked when both the need to fake them and the ability to do so secretly are pretty much nonexistent? Your guess is as good as mine. President Obama won reelection fair and square. It wasn't even that close. Some folks still don't want to believe that.

Posted by Adam Ducker at November 19, 2013 2:10 PM
Comments
Comment #374396

I’ll tell you what’s got them doing this: they want to believe that the Conservative movement and Republican Party are actually as beloved and well-regarded by most people as they were at their peak.

Worse yet, they’ve become a party driven by propaganda-oriented narratives, not fact-based. Put another way, they would rather believe those numbers were faked, than believe that Obama entered the White House based on legitimate jobs numbers improvements. Similarly, they can’t believe all the new voters who aren’t voting for them are legitimate, nor that ACORN didn’t get him the last election. The advantage with the Latino community has to be the result of illegal immigrants, the advantage with blacks has to be because they’re all too racist to give a white guy a fair shake when a black guy’s on the ballot, the young folks are naive, the vote from women is coming because today’s young women are sluts who want free abortions, etc.

Oh, and everybody (including the 47%) want freebies!

The biggest problem about this for them, in my opinion, besides the fact that saying these things about growing parts of the electorate isn’t exactly the best way to charm them, is that they’re giving themselves excuses as to why they’re not succeeding, excuses that internally relieve the pressure to change.

Something Republicans will likely need to do if they’re going to break free from their demographic slide.

To put it simply, Republicans don’t want to believe he won fair and square, because that would have implications for the future of their party they don’t want to face. The end of the story can’t be that the current conservative movement has to be retired in favor of a new one that might be more liberal on certain things. It has to be conservatism rising triumphant again. For that to be the story, Obama has to be a cheater, and Democrats in general have to be dependent on means of victory that go beyond simply better appealing to voters.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 20, 2013 8:30 AM
Comment #374397

Or, put another way, paranoid fantasies don’t involve real-world logistics. It’s one thing to believe that Obama must have stolen the election. It’s another thing to figure out just how much money and personnel you’d need to pull it off, and then how to keep everybody happy and/or silent afterwards. Watergate reflects how these schemes usually unravel, and that was chickenfeed next to what would be necessary for what the Republicans allege happened.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 20, 2013 8:41 AM
Comment #374398

Damn those Republicans, some of them not willing to accept election results a full year later. Those poor brainwashed drones.
Hell, thirteen years later, in 2025, I bet they are still complaining about the election being stolen.

Posted by: kctim at November 20, 2013 10:11 AM
Comment #374402

Willful ignorance is what the hate machine has produced and requires of it’s Pavlovian canines, willful ignorance. They are rewarded for their willful ignorance by getting more red meat conspiracies and down right lies to feed on. Then they come here spouting the nonsense that they have fed on as if we should just stay silent and let them tell us what they know for sure because they saw/heard it at redstate, drudge, lucianne, or the fake news channel. Even 60 minutes contributed to their delusions about Benghazi and had to retract the story as a total farce, but that does not matter, they are certain President Obama and Hillary Clinton conspired to do the worst deed to our foreign service officials because they, with their willful ignorance, are certain that we do not know what they are sure of. Haters gotta hate. Oh yeah, and no one read the law too.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2013 10:52 AM
Comment #374403

kctim-
Almost fifty years later, they’re still claiming Kennedy stole the election. Don’t joke about this until you do a thorough check of the kinds of claims your mainstream conservative politicians are making, much less the Tea Partiers.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 20, 2013 10:58 AM
Comment #374404

kctim, I think Stephen missed the point of your comment…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 20, 2013 11:29 AM
Comment #374407

Rhinehold, a total miss.

Stephen
MY mainstream conservative politicians? LOL!

I do a thorough enough check to know this is much to do about nothing.
For the past 13 years we have heard ‘the election was stolen,’ over and over and over. But NOW it’s news simply because it’s coming from the other side?

Sometimes the hypocrisy is so funny the only thing to do is joke around.

Posted by: kctim at November 20, 2013 12:21 PM
Comment #374417

Rhinehold-
I don’t think I did. Look, when people accuse Bush of stealing the election, they’re focused mostly on the extreme controversy surrounding the recount.

The Republicans, in their typical unimaginative attempts to make Obama look just like Bush, claimed voter fraud on both his elections. But Obama’s margins, and the real lack of uncertainty of the results left Republicans claiming some pretty extreme things, without the extraordinary evidence required to prove such claims. I mean, the whole ACORN thing, no pun intended, is just nuts. Even if they could succeed at something like this (especially after panicked political action based on a misleading conservative news video destroyed the organization as a going concern), the likelihood of them getting away with it would be ridiculously low. People talk, irregularities show up, somebody makes a stupid mistake.

There’s a difference between holding doubt over man who only won by about 500 votes, and whose mandated recounts were never properly finished, whose election results had to be certified in a Supreme Court ruling that was both unprecedented, and unprecedentable…

…and people claiming two elections, with about 9 and 5 million voters difference, and unquestionable electoral college victories were rigged by a magic community organizing outfit, the latter even after it was disbanded.

Yep, sometimes Republicans say that community organizers are terrible leaders, unable to get anything done right. And sometimes they demonstrate superhuman efficiency, secrecy, and vote-rigging ability.

This is what gives me fits about the Right Wing Rhetoric, their arguments. If you look at these things logically, the claims they make are all at odds with each other. In one claim, they say he’s taken over healthcare, and is doing whatever he damn well pleases. Then in the other direction, y’all jump on him for a broken pledge that would never have occurred if he had control of the prices, the premiums, the availability, and everything else a decently socialist takeover would have given him power for.

You folks bash him for a broken pledge, for lying, yet here you folks are, making false claims to us, demonstrably contradictory claims, again and again! If we are going to apply this standard of honesty to Obama, why the hell do you folks get to have such a loose connection to the truth?

You want accountability? Fine. You want consistency? Fine.

I can do that. I can admit to real failures. Question is, are you equipped to deal with yours? Can you admit that the Republican’s policies, including the ones you LOVE, have not worked as promised? I mean, let’s start with the Tax Cuts, probably one you’re just positively infatuated with. They claimed it would be deficit neutral. It wasn’t! They claimed business would pick up! Growth was half as fast as before. They claimed we’d pick up millions of jobs, do better than Clinton! They did worse than any President since the numbers started being tracked under Truman.

How about that for broken promises?! How about your side answering for the fiscal screw-up that was, while Obama suffers for his policy’s problems?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 20, 2013 7:35 PM
Comment #374422

Stephen, integrity is a rare achievement and difficult to attain. Asking hypocrites to stop being hypocrites is asking normal average humans to be something more. Not likely to happen for most.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 20, 2013 8:48 PM
Comment #374423

Stephen, integrity is a rare achievement and requires great effort to maintain in these modern times. Asking hypocrites to be otherwise is an exercise in futility. Integrity comes from within, not from without.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 20, 2013 8:50 PM
Comment #374425

Of course not Issa is investigating this latest conspiracy now. Good.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at November 20, 2013 9:10 PM
Comment #374441

Stephen, it’s always somehow “different” when it’s the left put on the spot, isn’t it. From the false claims of being pro-choice, to equality, to claims of rigged elections, you guys are always justified in your words and actions, aren’t you. Pathetic.

“You folks bash him for a broken pledge, for lying, yet here you folks are, making false claims to us, demonstrably contradictory claims, again and again!”

I’ve asked you before and you were unable to back this up, are you now able to?

“You want accountability? Fine. You want consistency? Fine.”

Fine? LOL! You spent the first part of your post “justifying” why partisans questioning election results for 13 years is ok, and condemning other partisans still questioning election results after just 1 year. Real consistency there.
You brush over this Presidents lying as if it didn’t happen. Some accountability there.

“have not worked as promised?”

I can’t, nor would I even try, to speak for Rhinehold, but as for myself, I can easily admit political policies, promises and pledges don’t always work. Pretty good reason NOT to have government involved in every aspect of our life, isn’t it?

I don’t get too worked up about a President promising the moon or pledging transparency. I do however, get very worked up when a President is a hypocrit and intentionally lies to me.
I also get pretty worked up when partisans ALWAYS try and bring up crap that happened decades ago in order to avoid what is happening today.

You know Stephen, IF you really want effective government that works for ALL people, you have to deal with today, not yesterday.
A good start to do that is by reading the latest ramblings of faux zen masters and see how it applies to yourself. Like, why do you blindly support a man who does not tell you the truth? Why do you think it’s ok for one side to question something, but not the other side? Why do you use mistakes of the past to justify mistakes of the present?

They may be unable to defend their own words with facts, but IF you truely want progress, you should be willing and able to defend yours.

Posted by: kctim at November 21, 2013 10:49 AM
Comment #374442
I don’t think I did. Look, when people accuse Bush of stealing the election, they’re focused mostly on the extreme controversy surrounding the recount.

There was only manufactured controversy by the Democrats who wanted to win that election at all costs.

There’s a difference between holding doubt over man who only won by about 500 votes, and whose mandated recounts were never properly finished, whose election results had to be certified in a Supreme Court ruling that was both unprecedented, and unprecedentable…

That you get the basic facts of the 2000 election so wrong in your little summary here just goes to make my point.

1) A win by 1 vote is a win, Stephen. Al Franken on by much less than 500 votes, in fact he was actually behind before the recount, yet there is almost no one claiming he wasn’t elected are they?

2) All mandated recounts were finished. Bush won both of them. There was the original count, which Bush won, and then there was an automatic automated recount, which Bush won again. Advisers for Gore told him that he could win if he asked for a third recount, only in precincts that were high Democratic vote areas. Gore wasn’t interested in getting the count right, or he would have asked for a statewide count, not a selective one in three precincts.

3) The elections were not certified by the Supreme Court, they were certified by the proper authority who certifies Florida’s counts, the Florida Secretary of State.

4) Florida’s Supreme Court stepped in and violated the law by extending the mandated recount deadlines and other irregularities in its decision, it’s ruling was vacated by the US Supreme Court because of those violations.

5) Florida’s Supreme Court re-ejudicated and came back with a decision to only count undervotes in those precincts GOING FORWARD and not call for a recount from the beginning. The US Supreme Court again overruled their overreach and violations of equal protection.

The Supreme Court did not decide the election, it prevented the Florida Supreme Court for unfairly deciding the election.

This is what gives me fits about the Right Wing Rhetoric, their arguments. If you look at these things logically, the claims they make are all at odds with each other.

You mean like how Bush was too stupid to be president yet was smart enough to mastermind a grand conspiracy to make it look like 9/11 was committed by some Islamic terrorists so that he could invade Iraq (which he already had the political capital to do before the attack) and make a lot of money for Haliburton? Or how Reagan was sleeping through meetings and an unmitigated simpleton who masterminded the Iranian arms deal and got the hostages to be released even before he was president?

Yeah, the left NEVER does anything like that, Stephen…

You folks bash him for a broken pledge, for lying, yet here you folks are, making false claims to us, demonstrably contradictory claims, again and again!

If you want to continue to use groupings to try to deflect from your inability to admit what the president you support has done something wrong, how are you any different than those ‘dirty republicans’?

If you are arguing with me, you are going to have to show me where *I* have done those things. If you can’t, which you can’t and is why you are trying to lump me in with a group of Republicans (not even all of them) in order to play your deflection game, you just make yourself look the ass.

If we are going to apply this standard of honesty to Obama, why the hell do you folks get to have such a loose connection to the truth?

Again, tell me where *I* have such a loose connection with the truth, Stephen. If you can’t, stop your idiotic attempts to play such games.

I can do that. I can admit to real failures.

Bullshit. Here’s your chance, Stephen, admit to a ‘real’ failure by this President.

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