Surprise: Republicans Have Embarrassed Themselves Over Benghazi
As more and more information comes out about the attacks in Benghazi the more wrong the GOP has been shown to have been.They couldn’t have cared less though as long as what they were doing harmed President Obama. Their singular obsession with destroying the leader of our country has put them on the wrong side of reality once again.
The latest word shows the attack was carried out by militants responding to the protests in Egypt. There has been no tie found to a larger terrorist group and certainly no strong tie to al-Qaeda. There has been no evidence of long term planning in the attack. There has been no tie found to the anniversary of 9/11.
So, the early statements of Susan Rice and others have been shown to be far more correct in their assessment than Republicans give credit for.
Don't anyone hold your breath expecting Republicans to admit they were wrong.
Posted by Adam Ducker at October 21, 2012 1:17 AM
Intelligence is not news, and even news is not guarenteed correct, so everyone should admit that.
Of course, what does this do to President Obama’s gotcha moment in the debates where he said that he called it an act of terrorism right away? Why did the President feel the need to defend himself if he knew Rice was right all along? Maybe we should check the transcript.
Re holding your breath for corrections - we always have this. Many Democrats still make hay about intelligence failures around 9/11. I have pointed out many times that all presidents must make decisions in situations of great uncertainty.
I also believe, tangentially, that Obama is not much involved in foreign affairs or in governing in general. He is articulate but not a leader. When this happened in the Middle East, he treated it politically too.
The thing I disliked most about our whole response was that we talked about that film at all. The correct response would have been that the violence was unjustified no matter what sort of film had been made. No high official needed to say a thing about the content of the film. In our great and diverse United States, our president need not and cannot take responsibility for everything. If a movie can insight murderous rage in some people, it is because those people are ignorant or evil.
Mr. Ducker, you are the one choosing to ignore all pertinent info on the subject which does not support your “they were just hacked off because their Egypyian brothers were”. You obviously did not watch the comprehensive FOX report Friday night which interviewed Lt. Col. Woods, a special forces guy, who was in charge of the ambassador’s protection until just days prior to the 9/11 attack. The also sent a reporter to Bengazi to give us the layout of the compound and interview locals. The security film showed the steets quiet until 2140 that evening when heavily armed terrorists went to preassigned spots around the perimeter. They systematically went about working their way through the buildings inside the walls. This morning, it is being reported that a drone overhead monitored the raid below for six hours.
The number of times the ambassador and others went about reporting increased local insurrection and requested more security is also damning. Forget who carried out the killings…how do you justify leaving the few who remained unprotected? Lt. Col. Woods says he repeated requested that he and his men at least be allowed to stay. Not only did they not beef up security, just days before they all but stripped it bare.
Once again, you will go to any lengths to contort the truth to keep O and his shills from looking bad. Here’s a news flash…it ain’t working.
C&J: “I have pointed out many times that all presidents must make decisions in situations of great uncertainty.”
This would be the most reasoned response from a conservative on this site. As soon as the attack happened the Romney campaign got the ball rolling and attacked President Obama. Fox News and right wing hate radio kept things moving. Finally Republicans in Congress started the partisan witch hunt. The great party of patriots has once again embarrass itself to a degree much larger than they have the sense to notice or care about.
“The thing I disliked most about our whole response was that we talked about that film at all.”
I think this is a shift away from past policies, right or wrong. This White House has fought against right wing hatred of Islam at many levels and it has a great deal more respect for Muslims than the right is comfortable with. That’s why they say he must be a Muslim himself. The right can’t stop being wrong on subjects like this.
John Johnson: “Once again, you will go to any lengths to contort the truth to keep O and his shills from looking bad. Here’s a news flash…it ain’t working.”
Obviously you’re not paying much attention if you’re still running with these attacks. How far can you bend over backwards to cover for a GOP that will do or say anything to destroy President Obama even if it means embarrassing themselves or harming their own country? There was a time when the right pretended to loathe behavior like this but then again that was before we had this democratically elected dictator in the White House. That’s a horse of a different color.
As I said, I have MANY times explained that presidential decisions are made in climate of uncertainty. Talk to your liberal friends about this. You are the only one of them who seems to understand this as anything but a defense of Obama. Try to explain to nuance to people like Stephen or Adrienne. Maybe you will have better luck.
Re kissing up to Islam - unfortunately this is NOT an Obama innovation. Bush did it too. We should stop. The terrorists respond with violence because THEY are evil and ignorant. If publishing a few cartoons can make these guys attack Danes, probably the world’s nicest people, you know they are no good. We should not apologize for this film. Never apologize for things you didn’t do wrong. It just makes the dogs hungrier.
Respect for Islam is essential, but that does not mean submitting to it.
I wonder why our friends on the left hardly write about the lack of security that allowed these murders to take place. Regardless of who is ultimately determined to be responsible, the fact is, we were not prepared and should have been.
As far as I know, there is not a single Republican with partial or full responsibility for our embassies and their staff.
C&J: “Respect for Islam is essential, but that does not mean submitting to it.”
This is up there with the “apology tour” lie that Romney keeps repeating. The president didn’t apologize for the video because he’s not responsible for it. He simply pointed out that the video was the reason for the turmoil and that we, being sane and not deranged, do not support the message of the video. The right went bananas because to them the video is right and fine and how dare the president not take a stand against what they consider to be not a group of evil people but instead an evil religion.
Royal Flush: “I wonder why our friends on the left hardly write about the lack of security that allowed these murders to take place.”
The increased security idea is simply a distraction. There is little indication that increased security would have stopped the militants but the right will run with anything that will seek to place the blame not on the terrorists but on President Obama.
This is exactly why Clinton came out like she did. It wasn’t the president’s misjudgement that was the reason for the security situation and Americans deserve to know the truth. The right wanted so bad for this to have passed through Obama’s hands and had his name on it but it didn’t work like that.
There is literally no end to the ways the right has hijacked this tragedy and used it to smear the president. You’ve embarrassed yourselves and you should be ashamed.
You’ve embarrassed yourselves and you should be ashamed.
Posted by: Adam Ducker at October 21, 2012 12:42 PM
Adam…I hardly believe the American people would agree and we are certainly not the ones embarrassed. Once again, a leftie writes that increased security “is simply a distraction.”
How in the world can anyone justify writing that? If that were the case, one could argue that no security at all wouldn’t make any difference in the safety of our embassy staff. Yet…that is not the case. Why is that?
Sorry Adam, but you have fallen a few points in my estimation of your truthfulness.
As usual, your retort doesn’t address specifics, Mr. Ducker. I gave you, what I thought, was compelling evidence of gross incompetence, as related by people who were there when it was all happening. I stated specific points that are confirmed on video and in official written reports, and you come back at me with nothing. A shamefully weak effort, sir. I would suggest that you stick to posting threads that are a bit defendable. This one is not.
Obama and Hilary referred to the video many times. Called it disgusting. They should have mentioned only that a video caused ignorant zealots to kill people and destroy property.
We cannot let our top leaders be held hostage to any dummy who wants to make a video.
BTW - one of the most popular shows on Broadway is the “Book of Mormon” which pokes fun at Mormonism. I don’t recall Obama calling that disgusting.
In our diverse society, we cannot let ourselves be dominated by the rage of assholes. Bottom line is that America did nothing that could have provoked a reasonable and honest person.
I would say that this is not only Obama. Bush folks did it too. We should not disrespect Islam, but we should also not let ourselves be pushed around by technicalities.
When I was in Iraq, we used to negotiate with some tough guys. They would try to pull this sensitivity on us. We would tell them to go F-themselves. They would exhibit rage, but then come back and be reasonable.
You really cannot give in on all these little things. The grinding will never stop. They can always create reasons to be unreasonable.
Would it have made sense for blacks to try to reason with the KKK? This is the kind of situation we face.
As I said, this is not only Obama. We have a history of not seeing the truth. We used to have lots of people drawing moral equivalency with the Soviet Union. Honest and peaceful people find themselves often tricked by those whose first choice is violence.
Royal Flush: “If that were the case, one could argue that no security at all wouldn’t make any difference in the safety of our embassy staff.”
No, that wouldn’t make any sense. The point was not that security itself is useless, but rather that the security increases that the right has hammered Obama over were not something that would have made a difference according to reports.
“Sorry Adam, but you have fallen a few points in my estimation of your truthfulness.”
That’s strange. Tell what I’ve said that isn’t truthful.
The specifics you outline do not change the view of what happened though, don’t you see? That’s what I find most confusing. Early on the right made this a two option story: Either it was about the video or it was a terrorist attack. The truth is it was both. This was a well armed local militia group who saw the events taking place in Egypt and other places and quickly organized a terrorist attack on the compound.
What we see is that Fox News ran with a view of the events that would minimize the evidence backing up the administrations early reports of the attack while maximizing the level of blame and fault to be directed at the president and his administration.
C&J: “BTW - one of the most popular shows on Broadway is the ‘Book of Mormon’ which pokes fun at Mormonism. I don’t recall Obama calling that disgusting.”
I don’t see how this example fits. If the play were cause for rioting, death and destruction in the United States you’d probably see the president rebuke it.
“Would it have made sense for blacks to try to reason with the KKK? This is the kind of situation we face.”
This isn’t a case of victims reasoning with terrorists. This is a case where the president simply said we condemn both the hate behind the video, and the hate and violence committed using the video as an excuse. I think that the video does not offend you or anyone you know so you don’t understand why the president would feel the need to condemn it as well. Both are as equally deserving of condemnation even if they are not equal in their level of evil.
“If the play were cause for rioting, death and destruction in the United States you’d probably see the president rebuke it.” Right. So if they were to do these things, they would be savages. This is my point.
RE KKK - It is very similar. The KKK felt (wrongly) as the aggrieved party. They thought they were oppressed by the power of the Union. They felt that this justified the resort to violence and terror. They were wrong and narrow minded just as Islamic radicals are today.
In your experience negotiating with tough and unreasonable adversaries, do you find it useful to make concessions and take responsibility for things over which you have no control?
I believe in being reasonable. I believe in trying to understand my adversaries and IF I can I believe in making concessions that will bring them along. This is what I do well in my life. Many - perhaps most - disputes can be solved in this way. Often there are misunderstandings. But sometimes you have real disagreements. The more radical Islamist learn about us, they LESS they like us (and I think it works the other way around too). In those cases, I believe that you cannot be magnanimous in victory unless you win.
We cannot win over that opinion. Obama reached out and today attitudes toward us are worse than they were under Bush. We need to try a different way.
We did not defeat Nazis in the war of ideas. We defeated them and then they changed their minds. We did not defeat communism on the field of ideas. Their system collapsed (with a push from us) and then many came around to the truth. Sometimes you just have to win.
Think of it in the much easier terms on our own blog. We are mostly reasonable people, yet we come to few agreements. And some of us cannot be reasoned with at all. How much worse are Islamic radicals?
Your responses are bordering on being pathetic, Mr. Ducker. Are you going to address the repeated pleas of our ambassador over a period of weeks for more security? Are you going to ignore Lt. Col. Woods pleas that he and his small group of security specialists be allowed to stay longer? Are you going to overlook previous al Qadea operations on other country’s diplomatic personnel that had caused them to close down their embassies and go home? In short, are you going to continue to make excuses for your sorry excuse of a President and his poorly performing State Department. I suggest that his personally being in security briefings each and every morning might have prevented this shameful event from ever happening. Not Obama…he’s bored…he is a no show…just like he was when serving as a state rep and Senator. He’s a slacker who could win an academy award for pretending he is someone he’s not…just like Rock Hudson did.
You have no credibility, Mr. Ducker. You used it all up here defending the indefensible.
C&J: “In your experience negotiating with tough and unreasonable adversaries…”
I still say that doesn’t matter. The statements about the video were not aimed at those doing the violence but at those who created and support the hateful video and others like it.
John Johnson: “Are you going to address the repeated pleas of our ambassador over a period of weeks for more security?”
I wish they would have had the security they felt they needed but the view has been by some that even that would not have stopped the attack. We’ll never know now though. Obviously Obama has said this was a problem, he wishes it would have gone differently and they’re working to avoid such a thing happening again.
“Are you going to overlook previous al Qadea operations on other country’s diplomatic personnel that had caused them to close down their embassies and go home?”
What is the relevance is that? This was not al-Qaeda carrying out the attack. The right just pretended it must have been so if the president refused to say so he’s covering it up for political purposes.
“You have no credibility, Mr. Ducker. You used it all up here defending the indefensible.”
Sorry you feel that way. If disagreeing with me on this one subject takes all my credibility away then you have very little respect for me anyway so I’m not that concerned about your opinion.
“In short, are you going to continue to make excuses for your sorry excuse of a President and his poorly performing State Department.”
I’m sorry. I didn’t realize you weren’t currently a US citizen. What country do you live in?
“I wish they would have had the security they felt they needed but the view has been by some that even that would not have stopped the attack.”
Three things….who are the “by some”. Find me a quote where someone in the current administration made a statement like this.
Secondly, whether or not it stopped the attack is not the issue, Mr. Philosopher. It was about our respected ambassador and three others losing their lives. It was about having enough people in place to fight off the terrorists or keep them out until additional aid arrived.
Third, who cares if it was al Qadea or not. What difference does it make? It was radical Muslims who hate our guts and want us dead. It was not a random group of people who made a spur of the moment decision to go grab RPG’s over a movie. The movie wasn’t mentioned when they tried to kill the British ambassador a few days earlier, so quit going there. It’s shows ignorance.
If it’s al-Qaeda, then you have something you need to follow up the line. Facts have consequences, and it does one well to follow them.
As for Radical Muslims? Your foreign policies are so ham-handed as to give them a propaganda advantage. What people need to know is that we really don’t give a crap about how religious you are, but if you attack us, your days of freedom, and maybe your days, period, will be numbered.
We’re not going to defeat radical Islam, anymore than the Moderates in the Middle East are going to defeat Radical Christianity. What we need to do is put them in check.
One more thing, can you quit this stupid line of argument of trying to announce that your rival is lacking in all credibility? Isn’t it so convenient that it’s always the Democrats you’re arguing against who suddenly have no credibility at all, and this without even a decent effort on your part in dealing with the facts.
If I didn’t know any better, I would say you were doing a shoddy imitation of one of those pundits on FOXNews. Thing about them, though, is that they don’t convince anybody else but those already read into the whole conservative media thing.
You’re losing the fight to convince today’s women and minorities, not to mention today’s youth, to secure the influence of the conservative and libertarian movements. The differences in the polls between white males over a certain age and everybody else is profound, and only today’s dominance over that group is keeping your folks competitive.
Sooner or later, your movement will have to deal with these folks, or end up fighting for a smaller slice of the American political landscape.
I can’t wait for Obama, in tomorrows debate, to once and for all put the Benghazi murders to rest. I’m sure he will be able to explain to the American people what really happened.
I guess we will have to listen to the libs tell of Obama’s victory tomorrow night for the next 2 weeks and then Obama will be no more and the libs will be in a fit of depression.
John Johnson: “Find me a quote where someone in the current administration made a statement like this.”
Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Charlene Lamb and State Department Undersecretary for Management Patrick F. Kennedy reportedly both said this in testimony.
“It was about having enough people in place to fight off the terrorists or keep them out until additional aid arrived.”
You’d need to show me people who testified that it would have made a difference. I’m not saying I’m completely right and you’re completely wrong but what I’m seeing so far in reports is that the attack was intense and the security would not have mattered.
“Third, who cares if it was al Qadea or not.”
This is incredibly important. We have a different set of legal standings to hunt, capture or kill members of al-Qaeda than we do local militia members in Libya. The right promoted possible links to al-Qaeda to shoot holes in the president’s argument that he’s done great damage to the terrorist organization. It seems so far there are no links and the right is simply wrong again.
Do me a favor and watch close to see if the president wears his lapel pin tomorrow.
Stephen, you address no specifics; you wander; you wish.
As for your prognosticating… you might want to check out all the latest poll numbers that continue to trend in R&R’s favor. Even the most liberal leaning of them all, the PPP/SEIU poll, shows your guys trailing in favorability. Imagine that.
Look forward to your spin on this…if you decide to address it, and other pertinent points I raised in my last post, at all.
Maybe you and Adam should get together and decide how you want to go about justifying the inaction that led to a pleading ambassador and three other brave men being killed. I think most people know that it cannot be explained away. You seem to think otherwise. Sometimes one can garner more respect by man’ing up, telling the truth and admitting fault. You and your savior don’t seem to think this way.
John Johnson: “I think most people know that it cannot be explained away.”
It’s not that I think it can be explained away. I don’t excuse the president from taking blame for the deaths and from pushing for an examination and rectification of any failures.
I’m simply pointing out that the right politicized this from the very first minute it was reported and as time has gone by their arguments and their attacks on President Obama have fallen apart. There was no refusal to call it a terrorist act, no coverup of the ties to al-Qaeda, Clinton was not sent out to take the whole blame, and the video still seems to have played a role.
Your head is still stuck in the sand. From the first words uttered by the administration, there was an attempt to play down what happened. The fact that terrorists activities had been building for months, and that the ambassador had been pleading about getting more security in place of months clearly shows that this was not an impromptu action by
average citizens upset over a movie. You have not seen even one Libyian citizen on any network saying it was. Odd, huh?
I’m not buying one piece of the administration’s story, and certainly not yours. Most people paying attention obviously feel like I do. It is reflected in the polls. You live in denial, Adam. You are a loyal subject. Falling on your sword for him will not save him.
“… clearly shows that this was not an impromptu action by
average citizens upset over a movie.”
The administration was wrong to suggest it was part of regular protests. They were too heavily armed for that and we know now there were no protests at the time. That’s pretty much the end of where they were wrong. What was correct is that it was tied to the protests, tied to the video, and was not a well planned attack by al-Qaeda affiliated terrorists aimed at the anniversary of 9/11. The planning apparently took hours, not days and reporters still stand by eyewitness testimony tying it to the video protests.
The right smelled what they thought was a coverup, not realizing they were just catching a whiff of their on bull crap.
Somebody ought to teach you that winning a debate is not about telling the opponent repeatedly that they’ve lost all credibility. That’s how teenagers and Republican/conservative pundits argue, because they want to have a one sided debate where they’re the only ones worth listening to.
You haven’t really been strong on specifics, so what exactly am I supposed to refute? Start arguing with facts, and we can start arguing about the reliability of those facts, and the other facts that form their context.
I guess we will see what the American public buys…Obama’s bullshit, which you keep wanting to repeat, or the facts. An ambassador and three brave men dead because they repeatedly ignored what was happening in Bengazi in prior days, and repeatedly turned down pleas for help from the ambassador himself. A man was drowning and they refused to throw him a lifeline. If I was in the foreign service, or special services for that matter, I would not want to know that I had to depend on Obama for help.
More than just about anything else, Americans hate it when their elected officials lie to them. Bill Clinton lied to us about having sexual relations with “that women”. Later, he had to tell the truth and he was impeached.
Obama tonight must decide whether to be truthful, or to cloud the truth, or to outright lie about the murders in Libya.
I believe he will cloud the truth to avoid outright lying. And, many Americans will recognize exactly what he is doing and those undecided’s will vote for Romney.
We already know what obama’s foreign policy looks like and the results it has had over many parts of the world. obama’s policies have failed to produce the results he wished to see in the Middle East. Our allies have even less reason to trust him and his ideas. We have heard his remarks to Putin that he thought were not heard.
Obama will have a difficult time in this debate and I expect his campaign to suffer from it.
John Johnson: “…Obama’s bullshit, which you keep wanting to repeat, or the facts.”
Remind me again what the facts are.
Royal Flush: “Obama tonight must decide whether to be truthful, or to cloud the truth, or to outright lie about the murders in Libya.”
What has Obama lied about?
Bin Laden is dead, and so is Qaddafi, and both at a fraction of the cost of what it took to get Saddam. It’s interesting to see Conservatives essentially play chicken little with our foreign policy so they can get back to making the same mistakes that didn’t work the last time.
You tell me, Royal Flush, if there was some kind of cover-up, then why are the leaked sensitive documents, which your side distributed without even blanking out the names of our CIA assets, backing Rice’s story, and Obama’s?
Maybe it’s because the real lies, the real obfuscation are coming from your side.
You want to know the real irony here? Ronna Romney, ex-Sister in Law of Mitt, actually posted a montage showing two photos that are supposed to be of the late ambassador. Beyond the fact that this is a disgusting piece of propaganda, somebody noticed that the morons who created the montage accidentally used one of Qaddafi’s corpse.
This is the proud Republican party. Not only does it stoop to the most disgusting kind of bloody shirt waving, something that the Ambassador’s family would definitely object to, but worse than that, it confused the man that Ambassador Chris Stevens helped to defeat with him. That is high level stupidity if I ever saw it.
Stephen: “Maybe it’s because the real lies, the real obfuscation are coming from your side.”
I guess we both know which side of this I fall on. Have Democrats ever pulled this level of nonsense in the face of a tragedy such as this? I suspect the right would have crapped their cages over this.
Sorry Mr. Daugherty…I didn’t put much credence in your link which gave the source as; “ex-sister in law of Mitt.” And to further discount your comment, you go on to describe this person as “the proud Republican party”.
I know nothing about this person and don’t really care to as she is so irrelevant. I do understand how desperate lefties are…well, desperate. Perhaps tomorrow you can find something else even more meaningless. And, thanks for the laugh!
What has Obama lied about?
Posted by: Adam Ducker at October 22, 2012 5:27 PM
Watch the debate tonight Adam…I think it will be revealed clearly.
Royal Flush: “Watch the debate tonight Adam…I think it will be revealed clearly.”
You won’t or you can’t say what Obama lied about on Libya?
Sorry Adam…that ground has been well plowed. Perhaps you were napping.
Royal Flush: “Perhaps you were napping.”
I’ve been asking for days. No one here can say what the president lied about but you folks just keep insisting he did.
If you send out your surrogates to tell a narrative that is untrue, both you and your lackey are liars.
Are you talking about Fox News now?
When the debate turns to job creation all Romney need say is that there are fewer people employed now compared to when obama took office.
I surely hope that obama places the blame of the murders in Libya on Clinton and the State dept…or better yet on Bush. Of course, he can blame congress as some libs on WB have suggested. I hope he repeats that as well.
In fact, any excuse obama uses is good for Romney. The boob probably doesn’t know that taking the blame himself is the only presidential move.
Sorry Adam…your last response was just game playing to avoid the truth. But then…who cares.
P.S. Adam…I understand that obama has told the sculptors he hired to do his face on Mr. Rushmore to mail him back his deposit.
Royal Flush: “Sorry Adam…your last response was just game playing to avoid the truth. But then…who cares.”
The only one avoiding the truth is you. You say Obama lied about Libya. You can’t give me an example.
Ducker says, ” remind me again what the facts are”.
Here’s body of my prior post that you just keep ignoring. Neither you or you mini-me have addressed it after repeated attempts to get you to do so. Please tell all of us how you can candycoat this:
“An ambassador and three brave men dead because they repeatedly ignored what was happening in Bengazi in prior days, and repeatedly turned down pleas for help from the ambassador himself. A man was drowning and they refused to throw him a lifeline. If I was in the foreign service, or special forces for that matter, I would not want To know that I had to depend on Obama for help”.
You have now run off and posted another thread without ever addressing the facts surrounding these deaths.
John Johnson: “Here’s body of my prior post that you just keep ignoring.”
I’m pretty sure I’ve addressed this each time but here we go again: Your only fact is that they wanted more security, they didn’t get it, they died. True. But what’s the point? Obama has accepted responsibility for that and has vowed to fix any problems and to also capture those responsible. What else are you looking for?
“You have now run off and posted another thread without ever addressing the facts surrounding these deaths.”
This thread is still going. You’re allowed to have more than one topic at a time, you know?
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