Democrats & Liberals Archives

Wow, Adam…is this a new phenomenon in presidential elections? Imagine this go round one side attempting to portray numbers as skewed. Is this type of thing only perpetrated by the Repubs? Inquiring minds need to know.

John, the pheomenon is not new. Nevertheless, it is still hilarious.

The Republicans are dangerously undermining their own faith in Democracy in order to avoid facing the intolerable notion that after the Bush Administration, they’re not as popular or well trusted as they once were.

Democrats, after losing a few elections, gradually came around to the view that they were doing something wrong, and dealing with that, came back with Clinton, who remains one of the most popular Presidents of recent times.

If you let your mistakes tell you where you’re falling short, you can do better. If you don’t, improvements will be left up to chance.

I’d welcome Clinton back into the Whitehouse in a New York minute. O is no Clinton. He can’t hold a candle to him. I is more like Carter.

I think Democrats should consider this in the bag. We know that many Democratic stalwarts would prefer to stay at home, drinking beer, maybe playing the lottery. Let them. No reason to get out that vote. Stay home if it is too cold; stay home if the weather is too nice; don’t think of going out if it is raining.

Do the Democratic thing: rely on others to pull your weight.

Let those stupid conservatives take care of as they do so many other things.

Everyone enjoys good political fiction don’t they. It is much more entertaining than boring political reality. I read somewhere that the new polling equation relied on polling an equal number of Romney and Obama supporters to reach a fair conclusion. After doing so the pollster determined that each candidate held 50% of the vote. He then used that conclusion to determine that it was a dead heat race. Lol!!!!!!

I have to give the right credit, the last few years sure have been fun. It has seemed as though each new week has bought forth a new chapter in their book of political fictions. I have read that the final writing will be complete in November. Early rumors are that it will be titled “Tales of Political Sorrow” and will be listed under conservative politics, non fiction-fictions. Lol!!

Everyone enjoys good political fiction don’t they. It is much more entertaining than boring political reality. I read somewhere that the new polling equation relied on polling an equal number of Romney and Obama supporters to reach a fair conclusion. After doing so the pollster determined that each candidate held 50% of the vote. He then used that conclusion to determine that it was a dead heat race. Lol!!!!!!

I have to give the right credit, the last few years sure have been fun. It has seemed as though each new week has bought forth a new chapter in their book of political fictions. I have read that the final writing will be complete in November. Early rumors are that it will be titled “Tales of Political Sorrow” and will be listed under conservative politics, non fiction-fictions. Lol!!

Over confidence can be amusing. DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN.

Re/accurate polls: Rasmussen has held the record for the past several elections.

Re/skewed polls: if the goal of the MSM is to discourage conservatives from voting, it won’t work; however it may have the opposite effect by causing democrats to think it’s in the bag and stay home.

However, there is another possibility; perhaps the leftist media is creating the sense that Obama should win by a large margin and when he loses, the leftist will believe it’s another election stolen and worthy of riots and protests. This is a Rush Limbaugh scenario, commented on last week.

However, if we see the polls tighten up in the last week before the election, we will know the numbers have been skewed. No polling company wants to be a loser on Election Day.

Frank-
I’m afraid Republicans have done too good a job of scaring and offending people. Mitt’s just one of them.

The trouble is, you can’t just run on confidence. You have to run on confidence and competence together. Otherwise you just have a bloated ego.

You know, the trouble is, even Fox News polls are registering similar numbers. You’re entertaining this naive position because it’s been Republicans who have been overconfident this last year about their position.

In fact, as we look at the way Republican party members have chosen in the election, we can say such overconfidence has become endemic. They want to believe that last election was a mandate on their ideology, when in fact it was a referendum on people’s frustration, part of which, ironically enough, your people were responsible for creating through obstruction.

I think with the Tea Party in Congress, people are aware that it takes two to tango, and the GOP’s been the more problematic dance partner. Where people are still frustrated, its more aimed at you.

Of course, if you admit this, you might have to admit that the dream is over, that the summer of the Tea Party was an Indian Summer.

Frank: “Re/accurate polls: Rasmussen has held the record for the past several elections.”

After doing well several elections in a row apparently Rasmussen actually performed poorly in 2010. I still prefer an average which seems to be fairly strong.

“However, if we see the polls tighten up in the last week before the election, we will know the numbers have been skewed. No polling company wants to be a loser on Election Day.”

I still don’t understand how polls changing over time is evidence to you that they are wrong now. You realize how faulty that reasoning is?

I’d welcome Clinton back into the Whitehouse in a New York minute. O is no Clinton. He can’t hold a candle to him. I is more like Carter.

Carter was a better man and a better president than Reagan and GWB John. You have drank to much kool aid if you believe the conservative myths about Carter.

Hilarious. From the right’s pals at Media Matters.

Adam, I had the same thought with regard to Frank’s logic. I think most of us have been aware for a long time now that any twisting of logic is better than dealing with reality when the right is on the wrong end. I suppose that by their logic a percentage will cling to those spins simply because they want to believe they are true. It has gotten so bad that it is almost as though they have an alternate set of faux realities in place to justify the means when the contrived fictions fail to transpire. I think they have spun such an intricate web of fictions that the only escape when they do fail is to ignore them and rely on a new fiction to explain away that failing. which generally involves pointing at the other guys and acting as though they themselves had nothing to do with it to begin with. Imo it is backfiring on them because they simply have utilized that format way too much. It is kind of like “the boy who cried wolf” thing.

I lived them, j2t2. You might have read about the Carter years; I lived thru them.

John Johnson is right j2 your the one who is on the kool aid or something else if you think Carter was a good president. I to lived through those years.

The Carter years really sucked. I remember them well.

I believe that has Carter been reelected in 1980 and followed by Mondale, that the U.S. economy would not have recovered. We would be talking about the “new normal” and how this was just how things would have to be from now on. IN addition, I am sure they would have allowed the Soviet Union to recover, with the same kind of logic they used in Iran. Thank God Carter lost.

If we reelect Obama, we may have the chance to see what a second Carter term would have been like.

Re/Carter years; they were terrible and I was there to enjoy his ignorance. Funny how the left had no problem with the evangelicals when they voted for Carter, who ran on “born-again”, Southern Baptist ticket. But as bad as Carter was, Obama is worse.

Re/polls tightening up in the last couple of weeks; tell me Adam D. and Rickil; are polls free or do they work for a profit? They work for a profit, which means, the polls that are closest to being correct are going to get the business next time around. No poll wants to have it said about them, that they were way off base. You guys seem to be pretty dense and can’t quite grasp the point, can you???

Re/Rasmussen; read their 2010 results for yourself, instead of reading the liberal hack sites:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2010/election_night/election_2010_how_did_we_do

Here’s a list of the liberal hack sites for 2010:

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/rasmussen-ripped-for-biased-polls-his-data-looks-like-it-all-comes-out-of-the-rnc/blog-228523/

“If we reelect Obama, we may have the chance to see what a second Carter term would have been like.”

Posted by: C&J at September 30, 2012 1:26 PM

Scary prospect isn’t it?

Frank: “You guys seem to be pretty dense and can’t quite grasp the point, can you???”

You think the polls are wrong now because they don’t line up with your substitute reality. You think if they tighten up it’s because they were wrong now and not that undecided folks broke for Romney or that people just changed their minds. I grasp your sorry logic just fine.

“You think the polls are wrong now because they don’t line up with your substitute reality. You think if they tighten up it’s because they were wrong now and not that undecided folks broke for Romney or that people just changed their minds. I grasp your sorry logic just fine.”

Posted by: Adam Ducker at September 30, 2012 2:05 PM

Re/substitute reality; then I guess we will see how the polls develope in the next few weeks.

Re/tightening up: It has nothing to do with undecideds or people changing their minds. It has to do with skewed polls, which will tighten up in the last week because skewed polls will make the polsters look incompetent. People won’t move any direction, but the polls will change.

I don’t belive you grasp anything; but I will remind you in a few weeks of your ignorance.

C&J-
The irony is, much of Reagan’s first term was worse than anything that happened during Carter’s term. Carter actually managed to create twice as many jobs, net, as Reagan did. The only reason we remember otherwise is that Reagan’s economy improved before the election. There was a period, though, whe Reagan scored a 34% gallup rating. The further irony is that Reagan created no more than ten million jobs in his second term, about what Carter did in his single term.

Frank-
There’s nothing healthy about this kind of paranoid psychosis. Folks aren’t risking the reputation of their establishments just to suit a candidate they know is losing. You just don’t want to admit the guy you spent years attacking is going to win.

Well, I went through something like that, but I didn’t invent insane reasons why he won. Sometimes people don’t do what we want them to do.

“Frank-
There’s nothing healthy about this kind of paranoid psychosis. Folks aren’t risking the reputation of their establishments just to suit a candidate they know is losing. You just don’t want to admit the guy you spent years attacking is going to win.”

Let’s look at this logically Stephen; most of the polls are conducted by the liberal MSM; the liberal MSM is doing their best to get Obama re-elected; therefore the MSM are fully capable of skewing their own polls.

And guess what; the MSM newspapers are going out of business, and the liberal MSM cable and TV news shows are losing viewers. Since when did the liberal press or media ever care about risking their reputations? They have none…

Frank:

Your argument is the equivalent of me saying I think the sun rotates around the earth and if the sun rises tomorrow you’ll know I was right. For a successful college educated business man you show an astonishing lack of critical thinking skills. Sometimes I wonder if you haven’t made that whole thing up.

Frank, the liberal msm, how many times have I heard that at all levels. When something goes wrong for the right or things just don’t add up the way you folks think they should it is always the fault of someone else. We heard the same thing throughout the primaries. The clown car of candidates the right threw out there was not the fault of the media. Have you ever once stopped to consider that perhaps you have a lousy candidate? Or that the extremism your party is hostage to is not sitting well with main stream America? I am going to be realistic in my assessment. If Obama wins it will be because the right was just too outrageously extreme, disingenuous, and obstructionist in their actions over the last four years. It won’t be because of his record, it will be because Americans aren’t interested in giving the far right loonies a chance to prove they can screw us again while expanding on what delivered us here to begin with. Who in their right mind is interested in doubling down on redoing the Bush years even bigger?

Rickil:

What Frank and others are laying the ground work for is to call the election stolen if President Obama is given four more years. People told us Obama stole the last election. Never mind that if you took every state Obama lost by less than 10% in the popular vote and you gave it to McCain then Obama still won. They’ll say it again this time no matter how big or small the victory is. Frank and people like him don’t want or need facts.

Stephen….how old are you? You can’t pick up bits and pieces out of a history book, debate with someone who lived through it, and expect to win.

Did you read about the runaway inflation under Carter? How about the gasoline lines blocks long? What me to go on? Carter was, and remains, the epitome of the Peter Principle.

Forgive me for picking on you. I fear that I am…but you open yourself up to it.

John J, Stephen is in his 30’s and never lived through the BS Carter caused, he was just a twinkle in his daddy’s eye. I was in the Navy then and remember the lines and the Gas rationing and his bungleing of the Hostages. Kinda like Obama’s bungleing of the Embassdies in the M.E. 2 weeks ago. I’ll bet if Stephen asked one of those Hostages during the Carter Admin. he’d get an ear full of what they thoughht of Carter.

Adam, exactly, who needs facts when they can simply create a new fiction that their hard core base will readily cling to no matter it’s worth. The problem with trying to present fictions as reality is that most sane people easily recognize that bologna is not steak no matter how often they are told it is.

Personally, if I were a republican I would be very offended that the party I support actually believes I am stupid enough to believe some of the absurdly ridiculous positions they take.

I lived them, j2t2. You might have read about the Carter years; I lived thru them.

As did I John. As I said previously “Carter was a better man and a better president than Reagan and GWB John. You have drank to much kool aid if you believe the conservative myths about Carter.”

I believe that has Carter been reelected in 1980 and followed by Mondale, that the U.S. economy would not have recovered. We would be talking about the “new normal” and how this was just how things would have to be from now on.

C&J of course you do, it allows you to continue with this nonsensical mythology conservatives have falsely perpetrated about Carter. We give credit to Reagan but let’s remember who stopped the inflation caused by OPEC and the oil costs skyrocketing. Also remember it took a heavy price from the middle class to do this.

Stephen

The first two years of Reagan were the legacy of the Carter years, and yes they were horrible.

Of course Reagan was more of a real man than Obama,so he didn’t go around blaming what he inherited, so we may forget. But surely you cannot “blame” Reagan for the first two years of his term and exonerate Obama for the first four years of his.

The Reagan boom came in his third year, you know last year for Obama when the economy for Obama went sideways.

I voted for McGovern, Carter, Carter and Mondale. IMO Carter is the wrong comparison for Presedent Obama. My feeling for his trustwothiness is that he is more like Richard Nixon.

C&J-
You keep on talking about Carter, but Jimmy Carter left Reagan with an economy that was adding 95,000 jobs a month. The recession the year before did cost about 1.159 million jobs, but job growth after that totaled 1.104 million jobs. Net for the year was about 200,000 jobs. No doubt, that midsummer job loss was hell, and helped sink Carter. But Reagan was not left with the mess Obama was left with. Hell, those actually constitute almost all the jobs lost under Jimmy Carter.

Nor did Reagan face the kind of monumental job losses from the Carter Era that Obama did from the Bush. The economy added 563,000 jobs after Reagan took office.

By way of comparison, how many jobs were lost in the same period after Obama’s election? 3.397 million. 73% of all the jobs his administration would lose.

Reagan’s job losses start in August 1981, about the time he signed the tax cuts into law, and 2.8 million jobs are lost before the end of that losing streak. Reagan didn’t break even until Sept 1983. The following year did him wonders, but it still left him having created half the jobs of his predecessor. He would never really exceed that record. Carter’s net job creation was 10.339 million jobs, and Reagan only did better than that in his second term by about 400,000 jobs, at 10.780 million.

His first term only netted 5.322 million, and he wasn’t the economic follow up act to a recession that killed over 4 million jobs before he even got into office.

If we exclude first years, how does Reagan first term stack up against Obama first term? Reagan only got 1.4 million more, and Obama has five months to go on his term. The difference would be less than a million by the time Obama finished his time in office, that is, if all the other months averaged to 97.

It’s funny that you ask to forgive the first two years. I’d say only the first year needs to be forgiven. hell, give me the first six months and Obama’s eaily a net job creator, and a better one than Bush was in his first term, with or without that help. Obama was simply asked to dig out of a deeper hole.

Stephen

“Reagan’s job losses start in August 1981” - so you agree that by August 2009 it was Obama’s economy.

So by the logic, Reagan brought results within two years. Obama is still anemic.

Re Obama v Reagan

Okay, Reagan will have beat Obama ONLY by a million jobs? YOu really think Obama is a screw-up if you forgive him that kind of number.

Face it, Obama messed up royally. He just is more articulate than he is intelligent, so it is tricky.

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