Democrats & Liberals Archives

Fools Still Falling For Gold

Gold is a terrible investment. Don’t tell conservatives. In the last few years gold retailers have made a fortune off of fools who have been scared away from rational investment decisions and funneled into idiotic schemes like buying precious metals. A fool and his money are soon parted, I suppose.

Usually I wouldn't approach a subject like this but I saw the AP mention it today:

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — For gold sellers on eBay, the recent stock market turmoil has been a boon for business.

Gold and silver sales on eBay had already been rising steadily over the past several years — so much so that eBay Inc. created a special area in May to make it easier for buyers to find sellers.

Now, activity on that part of the site, the Bullion Center, is intensifying as consumers unnerved by the economic uncertainty flock to gold in hopes it will be a stable investment.

While it may be unfair to some people who feel they are making rational investment decisions in precious metals I can't help but imagine these people are buying gold because they are scared to death and have been listening to the wrong advice. Fear isn't always rational and there is nothing rational about this increase in gold buying.

I grew up in a small region of the state of Arkansas where a Democrat in the White House was as good of an excuse as any to buy more guns and spread more lies about big government. Clinton nearly drove a few families I knew to the mental hospital over the paranoia. One person claimed to have chased suspicious black hummers up into the hills where they lost them conveniently without a trace. What would the federal government want with a tiny nobody town in America? God only knows. The paranoid are left only to speculate.

It's no better under Obama. It may even be worse. A survival outfit has put up shop in that same small town now and is giving and selling advice to residents on how to prepare for the worst. For instance the owner is literally advising people to buy galvanized pipe with two screw caps like you would use for pipe bombs (his words, not mine). He wants you to take all your money out of a bank, convert it to gold, put it in the pipes, and bury it all in the ground. He won't say where he buried his gold. I'd like to ask him where he buried his common sense.

The gold retailers simply love that mentality. In fact they pay folks like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity to feed into the paranoia. At the end of his TV run on Fox Glenn Beck's only remaining advertisers seemed to be every outlet that sold gold in America and a group of nut jobs selling seed packets to live off of when our way of life comes to an end.

That same mentality I've witnessed in my small town for years as a child and an adult is in the roots of the TEA Party. It's not rational or fact based. It's reactionary and paranoid. The roots run down into rocky soil and the leaves get watered by the convincing liars like Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity.

The United States as a whole is now witnessing what myself and so many others have seen in small towns across America for so many years. It's always been this way but it's never had so much voice until now.

There is an interesting disconnect between those who claim to be patriotic while at the same time promoting an absolute lack of faith in the federal government, the treasury, and our banking system. I guess some just love America so much that they feel compelled to pull their money out of the economy and literally bury it in the ground like idiots. We live in interesting times, to say the least.

Posted by Adam Ducker at August 14, 2011 9:45 AM
Comments
Comment #327694

“Governments around the world are beginning to signal a loss of faith in the U.S. dollar as the international currency. But actions speak louder than words.

Mexico’s central bank spent $4.6 billion buying 93.3 tons of gold in February and March. China was a big buyer of gold in 2010, and is expected to continue buying this year.

In fact, central banks have ended a 20-year trend to become net buyers of gold, according to a report by Central Banking Publications, that surveyed mangers of 39 reserve banks.

Many countries already have established gold portfolios, and some have already started to hint that they intend to buy more.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-loaded-with-gold-2011-05

Perhaps Adam could explain this foolishness by countries around the world.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 3:20 PM
Comment #327698

Royal Flush:

So are you saying that since some countries in the world hoard gold still then obviously gold must be a better investment than I’m saying? I fail to see how centrals banks are relevant here but perhaps you can expand on your thoughts.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 14, 2011 3:42 PM
Comment #327702
That same mentality I’ve witnessed in my small town for years as a child and an adult is in the roots of the TEA Party. It’s not rational or fact based. It’s reactionary and paranoid. The roots run down into rocky soil and the leaves get watered by the convincing liars like Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity.


Adam it really is this simple. Conservatives are the German people of the late 20’s and early 30’s.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 14, 2011 4:01 PM
Comment #327703

adam

gov’ts and people are using gold as a hedge. there is nothing foolish about that. in fact in the last 3 to 4 years gold has outpaced most other investments. if i buy an ounce of gold, and the dollar drops in value, i have in essence protected my net worth. until obama is out of office IMO gold will continue increase in value, and is far better than holding on to cash, or buying treasuries. should the world decide to no longer use the US dollar as its reserve currency, gold will have been an even better hedge against currency devaluation.

i think it’s silly that you would accuse those who act to protect themselves financially as being unpatriotic.

Posted by: dbs at August 14, 2011 4:30 PM
Comment #327706

I fail to see how centrals banks are relevant here but perhaps you can expand on your thoughts.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 14, 2011 03:42

I am not surprised. You fail to see many things that are obvious to others.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 4:37 PM
Comment #327707

Just for laughs Adam…would you care to expand on this comment of yours…

“Gold is a terrible investment. Don’t tell conservatives.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 4:39 PM
Comment #327710

Gold is a non-performing asset with limited industrial application.

Posted by: phx8 at August 14, 2011 5:12 PM
Comment #327714


Gold was a good investment, but at $1700 an ounce it is getting very risky. Gold is a good investment if you sell at a profit before the price plummets. China could sell all the gold it purchased in 2010 tomorrow. Within seconds the banks would follow suit. Gold is the current economic bubble. When it busts, some people are going to be big winners and many are going to be losers.

Considering the amount of wealth that has flowed from our economy into the Chinese and Mexican economies, I am surprised that they aren’t buying more gold than they are.

Posted by: jlw at August 14, 2011 5:16 PM
Comment #327716

jlw writes; “Gold is a good investment if you sell at a profit before the price plummets.”

Brilliant assessment. Does that strategy apply only to gold? LOL

I can’t wait to read Adam’s comments on why…”“Gold is a terrible investment. Don’t tell conservatives.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 5:24 PM
Comment #327717

jlw

“Gold is a good investment if you sell at a profit before the price plummets.”

that pretty much sums up any investmnet, whether gold or stocks. as with any investment timing the market is key to comming out on top.

Posted by: dbs at August 14, 2011 5:27 PM
Comment #327718

“…as with any investment timing the market is key to comming out on top.”

Posted by: dbs at August 14, 2011 05:27

Market timing as an investment strategy is a recipe for failure. There are many components to successful investing in the equity market over time. Timing is just one, very small part.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 5:35 PM
Comment #327720

Royal Flush: “I am not surprised. You fail to see many things that are obvious to others.”

Thank you for expanding on that.

“…would you care to expand on this comment of yours…”

Certainly. Though I’ll expand for real instead of just slinging insults. Read more about it at politico.

Financial analysts, investment advisors and precious metal experts warn that the collectibles market can be among the riskiest ways to invest in gold, and some blame aggressive advertising and the boosterism on conservative shows for helping push nervous investors into bad deals.

The biggest names in the conservative world have their media saturated with promotions for gold investment. This wouldn’t happen if there wasn’t a massive conservative target audience for gold selling. Gold all by itself is a terrible investment but buying gold from the sources conservative media heavily promote is much worse. It’s despicable.

But for laughs Colbert mock conservative personalities for promoting gold. My favorite quote:

“…Michael Smerconish told Politico, “There’s a natural synergy between conservative talk radio listeners and gold…” Although our first love will always be lead.

Good stuff.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 14, 2011 5:44 PM
Comment #327722

Ah…I see Adam, you now tell us you were talking about collectible gold. You make a little more sense on that.

Adam wrote; “The biggest names in the conservative world have their media saturated with promotions for gold investment.”

Sounds like envy to me. The libs don’t even have that kind of media. No one wants to listen to liberal radio? And, even if they did, why would advertisers bother as the libs are all broke and on government handouts. At least that’s what I understand from the comments of their advocates here on WB.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 6:32 PM
Comment #327723

Adam

Which would you rather own.

100# of paper currency

OR

1 ounce of gold.

Why have the wealthy and powerful always amassed gold and other precious metals?

I have collected precious metals, including gold, for over 40 years.

I am not about to change.

Go ahead call me a fool. No proof, and it fell on deaf ears. My portfolio is very healthy. Thank you for the advice not worth taking.

Posted by: tom humes at August 14, 2011 6:40 PM
Comment #327727

Royal Flush:

It doesn’t matter either way. Gold investment is a scam created by gold sellers and fueled by paranoia and right wing nonsense. Most people who have gold should sell it now before the bubble pops.

Tom Humes:

Would I rather have 100% paper currency or 1 ounce of gold? I’d prefer neither one as an investment, frankly.

I’m glad you’re doing fine with gold in your portfolio. Good for you. My post is not to imply you can never do gold right or that you’re automatically a fool. But make no mistake about it. There are tons of fools buying gold right now when they shouldn’t be.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 14, 2011 7:46 PM
Comment #327736

Adam Ducker said:

“Certainly. Though I’ll expand for real instead of just slinging insults.”

This is shortly after making these comments in his post:

‘In fact they pay folks like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity to feed into the paranoia. At the end of his TV run on Fox Glenn Beck’s only remaining advertisers seemed to be every outlet that sold gold in America and a group of nut jobs selling seed packets to live off of when our way of life comes to an end.’

‘That same mentality I’ve witnessed in my small town for years as a child and an adult is in the roots of the TEA Party. It’s not rational or fact based. It’s reactionary and paranoid. The roots run down into rocky soil and the leaves get watered by the convincing liars like Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity.’

‘There is an interesting disconnect between those who claim to be patriotic while at the same time promoting an absolute lack of faith in the federal government, the treasury, and our banking system. I guess some just love America so much that they feel compelled to pull their money out of the economy and literally bury it in the ground like idiots. We live in interesting times, to say the least.”

While trying to make a point about buying gold, in your ignorant statements you managed to attack Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, The Tea Party, Rush Limbaugh, and last of all, the American people for being idiots.

Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. As Royal said, many countries buy gold, in fact there was a time when the US dollar was backed by gold.

“Soros buys gold after calling it ‘ultimate bubble’

Experts differ on whether gold is heading for a downward spiral or will it just witness interim corrections

“Gold is the ultimate bubble. It is certainly not safe,” George Soros, billionaire investor and legendary currency speculator, said at the beginning of this year and then reiterated his opinion in September this year.

But in stark contrast to his ‘bubble’ comments, his fund announced yesterday (November 15) that it increased gold positions during the third quarter.

According to Marketwatch, Soros held 4,697,008 shares of the SPDR Gold Trust and 705,000 call options on the gold ETF at the end of September, its regulatory filing showed. Soros also owned 5,000,000 shares of the iShares Gold Trust at the end of the third quarter, according to the filing. Three months earlier, Soros held 5,244,697 shares of the SPDR Gold Trust, a portion of which was a shared position. The firm held no shares of the iShares Gold Trust at the end of June, according to the filing.

Soros had said in September he expects a repeat of the historical pattern of bull runs in assets like gold ultimately hitting records, and then suddenly reversing. Gold is currently the only bull market, Soros said, adding that it may continue to rise but “it’s not going to last for ever.” He said it will be interesting to see if gold declines in the coming weeks.”

http://www.emirates247.com/2.277/commodities/soros-buys-gold-after-calling-it-ultimate-bubble-2010-11-15-1.317721

Oh, buy the way, gold has increased almost $400 an ounce since this article was written. In fact George Sorros is not only buying gold, he is also buying into the gold mines.

I believe this whole post is absolute BS. Your whole purpose for writing this post is to again attack conservatives. You and all socialist liberals are upset because people are investing their money in the only place it is safe. As for your comments about the federal government, the treasury, and banks; do you honestly consider them a safe place? In fact, the governmant has an 80% disaproval rating, the treasury is run by an idiot tax cheat, and liberals have been attacking banks for years, and now you want people to put their money in banks?

Posted by: TomT at August 14, 2011 10:46 PM
Comment #327741

TomT:

“Your whole purpose for writing this post is to again attack conservatives.”

Absolutely right. I’m sorry if I appeared to try and obscure that idea.

“…you managed to attack Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, The Tea Party, Rush Limbaugh, and last of all, the American people for being idiots.”

First of all not every member of the American public (not even most) is buying gold. A tiny sector of the public is buying into the hype about gold because of paranoia fueled by right wing media figures who make advertising dollars by promoting gold scams. It’s that simple. Absolutely I think those people deserve to be attacked and those that are buying for these reasons called what they are: fools.

I should make it clear again that I in no way mean to call all gold buyers fools or to suggest that no one anywhere can profit from gold. If my post appears to suggest that then that’s a mistake on my part. For the vast majority of people buying gold right now it’s a bad idea. They’re doing it because they’re worried and because it’s so heavily promoted in all media and heavily saturated in conservative media.

“You and all socialist liberals are upset because people are investing their money in the only place it is safe.”

Congratulations. You managed to find another way to call liberals socialists for no other reason than you thought it would be fun. I’m no socialist. Far from it.

“…do you honestly consider them a safe place? …and now you want people to put their money in banks?”

You mean do I consider regular ways of investment in the USA still safe as opposed to giving up on the whole system and investing in precious metals? Yes, absolutely. Do I consider FDIC insurance on my bank account safe? Yes, absolutely.

On investments maybe it’s simply because I’m young and investment for me is still in the long term instead of short term. I don’t care what things are doing in the short term and I count on the long term growth in the US we have always seen. Maybe that clouds my perspective a little. Maybe those people older or retiring right now see things differently.

I’m not taking my money out of banks and converting it to gold simply because the gold price is skyrocketing and I’m afraid of the Democrat in the White House.

“Soros buys gold after calling it ‘ultimate bubble’”

Soros is buying gold? I better reverse course and buy it then, right? Because I do whatever Soros does? If I’m not mistaken though Soros dumped his gold so I’m in the clear. Whew. I wouldn’t want to do things different than Soros. He might get mad at me and say I’m not a very good liberal.

All sarcasm aside, I tend to not do what millionaires and billionaires do with their money since I’m not that wealthy.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 15, 2011 9:37 AM
Comment #327748

Gold is in a bubble, and very likely to pop the second large institutional investors -like central banks- decide its time to capitalize on the increased value of the commodity. When that happens I plan to increase my PM assets. For now I’m siting tight and holding cash (not in paper currency, of course).

Keeping a certain percentage of your portfolio (10% - 20%) in precious metals is a good hedge against inflation, but getting all your money out of the bank and converting into gold right now would be a very bad thing to do. We have all seen asset bubbles before and what’s happening to gold at the moment is a textbook example.

The only way this can be converted into a political Conservative Vs. Liberal issue is because people trying to sell gold are using conservative’s fear of a democratic president to promote insecurity and get them to buy more of their product at a hugely inflated price. These people are neither gullible nor stupid. They have a certain outlook on life that can be exploited under the right conditions. Any marking expert will tell you this is not uncommon and happens across the spectrum. Tree-huggers pay a premium for buying hybrid cars that don’t perform any better that a regular 4-cylinder sedan.

Before anyone goes out in a gold-buying binge they need to ask themselves a simple question; why are these people willing to sell you their incredibly secure gold in exchange to your soon-to-be worthless Dollars? It is’t because of charity.

Posted by: Genaro at August 15, 2011 1:09 PM
Comment #327752
Before anyone goes out in a gold-buying binge they need to ask themselves a simple question; why are these people willing to sell you their incredibly secure gold in exchange to your soon-to-be worthless Dollars? It is’t because of charity.
It’s a market. This is like saying if Apple stock was really a good investment nobody would sell it to you. The premise that gold is not worth its current price is by definition false. If you want to predict a bear market - more power to you but you’re just guessing. Posted by: Schwamp at August 15, 2011 4:18 PM
Comment #327755

Everything for sale is only worth what another person will pay to own it.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 15, 2011 7:47 PM
Comment #327759

tom humes,

“Which would you rather own. 100# of paper currency OR 1 ounce of gold.
Why have the wealthy and powerful always amassed gold and other precious metals?
I have collected precious metals, including gold, for over 40 years.”

I ask these questions in all seriousness.

When you say you own an ounce of gold can you hold it your hand, or do you merely have a piece of paper that says you own an ounce of gold?
And if it merely a piece of paper, what truly makes it worth more than the $100 bill?

“Everything for sale is only worth what another person will pay to own it.”

Truer words were never spoken.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at August 15, 2011 9:49 PM
Comment #327760

“TomT:

“Your whole purpose for writing this post is to again attack conservatives.”

Absolutely right. I’m sorry if I appeared to try and obscure that idea.”

Adam, I thought the purpose of blogging on WB as to discuss; not use it as a platform to attack anyone who believes differently?

Perhaps you could name a stock, other than some tech stocks, which have done better than gold in the past 50 years. Tech stocks have proven to be volatile, more so than gold.

When President Nixon declared we do not have to have gold to back each dollar in 1969, the price of gold was about $34 an ounce. This equals about 5000% increase in 42 years.

You claim it is right wing conspiracy that is driving the gold price, and yet when confronted by the fact that Sorros, also a socialist who has also dabbled in fascism and communism, you claim “YOU” are not affected by what rich people do.

Since you claim to be young, then I will give your ignorance the benefit of the doubt. Because you certainly have no idea what you are talking about. As I said before, your purpose for writing this post is for nothing more than promoting liberal talking points and trying to blame conservatives for our economic problems. Like Obama blaming corporations for hoarding their money and not injecting it into the economy; you are doing the same thing with your comments. It is none of your business where conservatives invest their money and unless you have proof that gold is a bad investment, I repeat, your comments make you look stupid.

Posted by: TomT at August 15, 2011 11:09 PM
Comment #327762


Glen Beck infomercials begin with an apocalyptic message which includes his preferred satanists, followed by his messianic solutions, leading the customer right into the sales pitch.

Posted by: jlw at August 16, 2011 12:15 AM
Comment #327766

TomT:

“Adam, I thought the purpose of blogging on WB as to discuss; not use it as a platform to attack anyone who believes differently?”

So I’m not allowed to call out Republican media heads for promoting scams? I’m not allowed to call out paranoid conservatives for buying into it?

“Perhaps you could name a stock, other than some tech stocks, which have done better than gold in the past 50 years.”

I don’t know that I can. Perhaps somebody else may be able to. Of course gold is doing great right now compared to most other stocks. It’s in a bubble. When it pops and the price plummets that 50 year average is not going to look that great anymore. You’re treating me like I’m the only one you’ve ever heard suggest gold is a bad investment. I’ll get to that in a second here.

“You claim it is right wing conspiracy that is driving the gold price…”

I’m not suggesting so much that conservatives are driving the price but that the flight to gold is fueled by the same paranoia and fear promoted by right wing media at the highest level. Oh, and they just happen to make advertising dollars promoting gold. Conspiracy implies a level of manipulation that I don’t feel is there. Instead of manipulation it’s more like the right wing is taking advantage of the conditions. They didn’t start the fire but they know how to stoke the coals.

“…and unless you have proof that gold is a bad investment, I repeat, your comments make you look stupid.”

I don’t know if you’ll call this proof but here is the opinion of more qualified folks that agree with the sentiments I express in this post about the quality of gold as an investment:

* Market Watch: Why gold is a bad investment

* Steadfast Finances: 10 Reasons Why Investing in Gold is a Bad Idea | Steadfast Finances

* Bloomberg: Gold is a Bad Hedge, Questionable Investment: Michael R. Sesit

* Dave Ramsey: Don’t Buy Gold…Sell It!

* CNN Money: Gold is a Bubble - Resist It’s Charms

* Wall Street Journal Blog: Why Gold Is the Worst Investment Right Now

If you’re making money from gold in the short or long term then good for you. Don’t change a thing. If you’re buying gold because you’re afraid of the dollar and afraid of oru banks and you think we’re heading off a cliff then you’re being fooled.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 16, 2011 8:52 AM
Comment #327774

6 opinions and no proof. As I said before; a stupid post meant to attack conservatives as money grubbers who won’t invest their money in the market.

I do own some gold, but moved all my investments out of stock and into CD’s when Obama was elected. I knew what was going to happen. CD’s don’t pay much, but then again we haven’t lost anything. If we were still in stocks, I would be down many thousands. I told my broker, I would move my investments back, when Obama is sent back to Chicago. Why would anyone want to invest in stocks, when we have a president who hates corporations?

Posted by: TomT at August 16, 2011 6:06 PM
Comment #327775

“6 opinions and no proof.”

I’m shocked that you see no quality in informed opinion. Shocked, I tell you.

“As I said before; a stupid post meant to attack conservatives as money grubbers who won’t invest their money in the market.”

Well, I don’t know if I’m that concerned with money grubbing on the part of gold buyers. Those are two different things. We have greedy gold venders making a killing with the price of gold as high as it is. On the other hand we have people buying gold at the top of the bubble because they’re paranoid and because people like Glenn Beck are promoting it.

Perhaps a first step would be to stop trusting folks like Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh. Perhaps then these folks would fix more than just their gold problems.


Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 16, 2011 7:04 PM
Comment #327778

Ah, now we get to the root of the post. You are angry that those evil conservative talk show hosts are financing themselves through capitalism? You don’t really care who buys gold, if you did you would include people like Sorros, what really gets your goat is that Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh are profiting from it.

Posted by: TomT at August 16, 2011 9:17 PM
Comment #327779


Tom T, no, he is angry because those evil liberal talk show hosts couldn’t find buyers for gold. The liberal talk show hosts couldn’t master the art of combining the show content with the sales pitch into a single conducive message.

But, one has to realize that the conservative talk show hosts have a very knowledgeable and experienced source, unexplored by their liberal counterparts, the evangelical talk show hosts that have amassed fortunes using the same sales techniques.

“6 opinions and no proof.” Does that mean that the proof is in the pudding?

Posted by: jlw at August 16, 2011 10:30 PM
Comment #327780

I think everyone is conflating two separate ideas about buying gold.
According to my brilliant reasoning (haha), the only way to address America’s debt problem, public and private, is through inflation. No ones talking about Wiemar Republic or Zimbabwe type hyper-inflation, just something above the fed’s 2% goal. I’m astonished the tea party hasn’t zeroed in on this… It’s classic 19th century populist ideology in its most basic form. Inflation is a way to forgive debt, while punishing those bankers and other elitists. This should be red meat for all those Jacksonians out there… But I digress.

That being said, gold is a terrific hedge against inflation. However, the rubes that are listening to Glen Beck are probably not buying bullion or Krugerrand coins. Goldline profits not from gold sales, but nuemistics. They sell “rare” coins that happen to be made of gold (or platinum or silver), not gold that happens to be in the shape of coins. It’s almost like your old baseball card collection, those coins are only worth what someone else is willing to pay for them.

Kudos to all those out there that can stomach golds volatility. I prefer investing in things with functional, practical value.

Posted by: carl at August 16, 2011 10:52 PM
Comment #327781

Gold has been steadily rising for around 10 years hardly the makings of a bubble. There have been small corrections in that time but no concrete signs of a bubble.

Gold would have to reach $2400 an ounce, adjusting for inflation, to match the historical high of $800 an once reached in 1980. The world seems to be a bit more unstable than those times imo, I wouldn’t be surprised to see gold break the $3000 mark or more but $2000 seems pretty much a lock at this point (probably this year).

While you’re looking out for the gold bubble some have been protecting themselves from a dollar bubble. No one can see the future but an investment in gold is a solid choice and probably still a bargian at $1750.

Posted by: mattgregory at August 16, 2011 11:09 PM
Comment #327782

TomT:

“Ah, now we get to the root of the post.”

If you’re not already a police detective then consider keeping your current job. Somehow you keep dredging up the deeper, hidden meanings behind my post that are already specifically stated in the post itself. Yes, this post is an attack on conservatives leaders who are promoting a gold scam. Yes, I’m mad that conservatives leaders are profiting from a gold scam. This post is also an attack on the TEA Party for the paranoia that has lead to people thinking gold is a good idea instead of a scam.

“You don’t really care who buys gold, if you did you would include people like Soros…”

Again, who cares about Soros? Who cares what millionaires and billionaires are doing with gold? I only care about the people being duped by a gold scam.

“…what really gets your goat is that Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh are profiting from it.”

Again, yes. Help me understand the problem with me being outraged that high level conservatives are promoting a gold scam and making money off of it.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 16, 2011 11:19 PM
Comment #327784

Adam, I bet you didn’t have a problem with Obama’s HC scam that will dump 17% of the us economy in the government coffers to be spent on wealth re-distribution? I believe you have a real mental problem with successful people.

Posted by: TomT at August 17, 2011 12:22 AM
Comment #327787

“I bet you didn’t have a problem with Obama’s HC scam…”

HC scam? Heath care? You can call it a scam if you want. I’m fine with that. Unlike gold, “Obama cares” actually helps people. No, I don’t have a problem with it.

“I believe you have a real mental problem with successful people.”

I am a successful person so I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Successful people tend to stay successful by avoiding scams like investing in gold. I don’t play the lotto either. Do you?

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 17, 2011 9:31 AM
Comment #327788

Isn’t the run up in gold prices ideological driven? There is a whole industry preaching the end times and collapse of civilization with the only salvation being gold. Should conservatives continue with this planned collapse of the financial system then perhaps gold will become the bartering tool of choice. Certainly their policies will lead us to this fate.

However should society survive the conservative onslaught where gold goes is based upon it’s worth as a metal for manufacturing jewelry, electronics and such. The hucksters are already profiting from this ponzi scheme as are those that got in early and sell high. Those that come to the party late will be hurt by the when the bubble collapses.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 17, 2011 9:54 AM
Comment #327792

I am astounded. I am amazed. People above having more confidence in a piece of paper and its value than a piece of metal and its value. I really don’t know how to approach such folly. Precious metals have throughout history been a source of wealth and that has not changed one iota. The precious metals I have are there for the value they hold and can maintain throughout good times and bad times. As I saw sometime ago, while watching TV in one of my rare moments, the ad stating that gold has never been worth zero. Has never been close to zero.

So you can continue on without your gold and I will continue on with my precious metals.

Btw-if gold is that poor of a value, I suggest selling your wedding rings, and other jewelry, since it has poor value. The local pawn shop will give you a smokin’ deal, probably.

Posted by: tom humes at August 17, 2011 11:35 AM
Comment #327796

Not only do we have these idiotic statments in the original post, but nowe we have the little parrots repeating the liberal taklking points:

“Isn’t the run up in gold prices ideological driven? There is a whole industry preaching the end times and collapse of civilization with the only salvation being gold. Should conservatives continue with this planned collapse of the financial system then perhaps gold will become the bartering tool of choice. Certainly their policies will lead us to this fate.

However should society survive the conservative onslaught where gold goes is based upon it’s worth as a metal for manufacturing jewelry, electronics and such. The hucksters are already profiting from this ponzi scheme as are those that got in early and sell high. Those that come to the party late will be hurt by the when the bubble collapses.”

Posted by: j2t2 at August 17, 2011 09:54 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t gold a commodity? Isn’t oil also a commodity? What is the difference between investing in gold or investing in oil? In fact, aren’t retirement funds, even the union funds, invested in gold and oil? So if gold is idealogocally driven, what drives the price of oil? In fact what does “Idealogical Driven” prices mean?

This whole post is bullshit; with idiotic statements made simply because conservatives advertize for gold sales. The hatred for conservatives drives this post. The only thing idealogically driven is the left’s hatred of conservtaives.

Posted by: TomT at August 17, 2011 2:54 PM
Comment #327797

Tom T

I really don’t think the left has the ability to contemplate what their talking points mean.

Further, I am convinced that what is penned by the left is just some words to make themselves fee important and knowledgeable. They are in denial and they are deceiving themselves.

And you mentioned Soros and his gold. Oops, he is a totalitarian and whatever he does is ok. The left can never do wrong or make the wrong choices. We conservatives find an error it is the conservatives that caused the error. The last 1000 days is enough evidence of that.

Posted by: tom humes at August 17, 2011 4:04 PM
Comment #327799
the ad stating that gold has never been worth zero. Has never been close to zero.

That ad is wrong. I can think of two examples from history right off the top of my head. Mansa Musa (King of Mali) visited 14th century Cairo on his hajj and brought so much gold with him that he debased its value for a whole decade. Habsburg Spain experienced high inflation due to the massive amounts of gold and silver they imported from the Mesoamerican & Andean Civilizations they conquered.

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 17, 2011 4:20 PM
Comment #327801

WR, apples and oranges; what would happen to the price of oil if Saudi began dumping their oil on the world for free? Ofr what would happen to the price of gold if Sorros gave away his tons?

Posted by: TomT at August 17, 2011 5:16 PM
Comment #327803
what would happen to the price of oil if Saudi began dumping their oil on the world for free? Ofr what would happen to the price of gold if Sorros gave away his tons?

Those objects would lose all their value. That’s exactly my point. There’s nothing special about gold. Its price is subject to market whims just like anything else. The same is true for fiat currencies like USD. The USD retains its value because our government is prudent enough not to print and give away vast quantities of it.

Things only have value because people give them value. The value people assign to things is subject to the laws of supply and demand; if gold is as plentiful as dirt it’ll be worth the same as dirt. The same holds true of everything else in the world. As has been stated before, “Everything is worth what it’s purchaser will pay for it”.

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 17, 2011 5:47 PM
Comment #327804

Great point WR, now tell me, what happens when the Fed prints more dollars?

Posted by: TomT at August 17, 2011 5:49 PM
Comment #327805

Why don’t you talk about Algore’s fear-mongering scheme to bilk people the same way you talk about Glenn Beck’s fear-mongering scheme to bilk people?

This thread reminds me of the ant and the grasshopper story.

I look at it this way. If you have gold you will never be broke.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 17, 2011 5:55 PM
Comment #327806
what happens when the Fed prints more dollars?

If the monetary supply increases, inflation will result.

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 17, 2011 5:59 PM
Comment #327808

This is a good time to remind everyone that a currency based on gold or silver is a constitutional requirement.

It’s also a good time to point out that the private ownership of gold was outlawed by FDR and seized by the federal government.

Also, we couldn’t afford to pay our military expenses to foreign governments with gold so we separated our currency from it when Nixon was president.

The problem isn’t people buying gold, or talking heads promoting the sale of gold. The problem is the federal government/Reserve thinking it owns and controls all of it.

But, don’t mind me, et al. I wouldn’t want to impose upon your apathy. I wouldn’t want to channel any of this WB energy into something productive.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 17, 2011 6:11 PM
Comment #327820

WR, I am not disagreeing with you about anything you have said. Any commodity injected into the market will cause the value to fall, but unlike the dollar, there is only so much gold in the world, hense it always holds it’s value. But the subject of this post is anger towards conservatives who profit from promoting gold, i.e. Rush, GB, and Hannity. The post is a result of AD’s hatred of conservatives and a free market. He does not believe people have the right to buy gold; because the money invested in gold would be put to better use if it was used by liberals to inject into the economy. What AD has done is take the anger that liberals have toward corporations, who hoard their money, and applied it to private US citizens who invest in gold. But he has no problem with the likes of George Sorros investing his wealth in gold, because Sorros is a socialist.

Posted by: TomT at August 17, 2011 10:36 PM
Comment #327822
there is only so much gold in the world, hense it always holds it’s value.

Gold only holds its value because people say it does. It’s value above its use in industrial purposes is established by fiat and nothing else. What distinguishes it from the dollar is that the government does not control the gold supply. That honor goes to the mining industry. Maybe you trust miners not to unearth a huge supply of gold. Maybe you trust that no one will discover a cheap method of synthesizing gold. Maybe you trust your fellow citizens to keep believing gold has value above its use in industry. Those are questions for you to ask when it comes time to invest your own money. However, when I seek to invest my own money I observe that the gold market has a history of volatility. Therefore, I choose to invest my money elsewhere. I don’t care where you invest your money so long as you don’t come whining to me to bail you out after the gold bubble pops.

I think you are misreading AD. He makes no mention of any disappointment that money spent buying gold is unavailable for stimulus because I’m sure he and I know fully well that the sellers of gold still have the liquid currency that the buyers have just parted with. AD seems to consider it exploitative that the relationship between right wing commentary and their sponsors is cyclical to the extent that the entire program could be considered one big infomercial, but is misleadingly labeled as news.

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 17, 2011 11:10 PM
Comment #327823
Not only do we have these idiotic statments in the original post, but nowe we have the little parrots repeating the liberal taklking points:

Tom T since you have accused me of being little and a parrot and that I have just repeated a liberal talking point I ask you to prove your statement. What liberal talking point have I repeated and please site a source.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t gold a commodity? Isn’t oil also a commodity? What is the difference between investing in gold or investing in oil?
The bible didn’t mention oil as it mentioned gold did it? Therefore the end times crowd has evidently not fell for the oil speculation as they have for the gold speculation line.
In fact, aren’t retirement funds, even the union funds, invested in gold and oil?

Who knows why not Google it Tom T if you think it relevant to the issue.

So if gold is idealogocally driven, what drives the price of oil?

Are you implying Tom T that both can only be driven by the same thing? Why can’t oil prices be driven by demand? By oligopolies that won’t build refineries? By speculators and hedge funds? Do you deny that many conservatives are buying gold as a hedge against the collapse of society?


In fact what does “Idealogical Driven” prices mean?

Something that is driven by ideology. People investing in gold that do not intend to use it for electronics or jewelry or other processes that require gold. People that intend to use gold for bartering when the collapse of society arrives. Old testament bible thumpers who believe gold is their salvation when the end times come.

This whole post is bullshit; with idiotic statements made simply because conservatives advertize for gold sales.

Not true Tom T. Why don’t you try to google “end times gold” or “gold society collapse” or something similar. The fact is many people, mostly conservatives, buy into the myth. Just try it and see who your fellow conservatives really are.

http://lsb.scu.edu/~emcquarrie/goldadv.htm

The hatred for conservatives drives this post. The only thing idealogically driven is the left’s hatred of conservtaives.

Tom T. I don’t hate conservatives. I just don’t like their failed ideologies and foolish myths to be the standard for this Country. You can ignore the facts as you will Tom T. You can drink the cool aid. But don’t say you weren’t warned.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/260900-the-impending-collapse-of-the-gold-bubble

Posted by: j2t2 at August 17, 2011 11:28 PM
Comment #327825

I love you’re link j2t2, the author post’s a link to his November 2010 article “Gold Bubble: Final Warning”. We should have listened to this clown then right? The gold bubble was supposed to happen in ‘08-‘09 according to the learned class. Maybe if you’re lucky 2012 will be your year of the bubble.

Why do you all want it bubble so bad? I remember the never ending housing bubble that you all wanted to bust so fast. I don’t think you can win on this one, there is a base reason for investing in gold that can’t be explained with bs.

Posted by: matt at August 18, 2011 12:26 AM
Comment #327826

A humorous recap of TomT’s insights into the purpose of this post:

1. “I believe this whole post is absolute BS. Your whole purpose for writing this post is to again attack conservatives.”

2. “As I said before, your purpose for writing this post is for nothing more than promoting liberal talking points and trying to blame conservatives for our economic problems.”

3. “As I said before; a stupid post meant to attack conservatives as money grubbers who won’t invest their money in the market.”

4. “This whole post is bullshit; with idiotic statements made simply because conservatives advertize for gold sales.”

5. “But the subject of this post is anger towards conservatives who profit from promoting gold, i.e. Rush, GB, and Hannity.”

6. “The post is a result of AD’s hatred of conservatives and a free market.”

I’m starting to think TomT doesn’t like this post. I can’t be certain of this, however.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 18, 2011 1:18 AM
Comment #327828

Boy will I look foolish in a few years when the gold bubble hasn’t popped and gold is worth 3 times what is now. Those who bought it today will be wrapping all their bars in wads of useless hundred dollar bills to keep the precious metal from getting dust all over it.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 18, 2011 1:25 AM
Comment #327837

Lo and behold a timely article on gold. It was on the front page of Huffpo this morning. Thought it might be interesting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/17/gold-prices-rise-welcome-_n_930027.html

Posted by: j2t2 at August 18, 2011 9:05 AM
Comment #327838

WR said:

“Maybe you trust miners not to unearth a huge supply of gold.”

Warped, it is a commodity, and I have listened to the left for decades tell us we are running out of oil, which is another commodity. If we are running out of oil because the left says there is none left under the ground, then how can the left say we have an unlimited supply, which is also under the same ground?

Do you guys on the left argue, for the sake of arguing; gold has ALWAYS been a safe haven during times of inflation. And it still is today. Could it drop, yes; but it will always rebound. You need to remember, gold is not just used to make jewelry, it is also used in electronics and nations like China are buying gold for manufacturing purposes.

“I think you are misreading AD. He makes no mention of any disappointment that money spent buying gold is unavailable for stimulus because I’m sure he and I know fully well that the sellers of gold still have the liquid currency that the buyers have just parted with. AD seems to consider it exploitative that the relationship between right wing commentary and their sponsors is cyclical to the extent that the entire program could be considered one big infomercial, but is misleadingly labeled as news.”

Warped, I don’t believe I have read AD wrong. By his own admission, he is upset at conservative talk show hosts for advertizing gold. He is upset that they would make a profit from their advertisement. He as called working Americans fools for investing their own money in gold but has no problem with rich influential liberal socialists like Sorros for doing the same thing. I have to assume, since AD is a liberal, he is upset that money which could be used by the Obama government to stimulate the economy is being hidden in gold investments, instead of being available for taxing. I’m sure Sorros and other rich liberals use investment in gold as a means to hide money from taxes. As for proof, I don’t need it; this is the MO of the left.

Posted by: TomT at August 18, 2011 9:23 AM
Comment #327839

Adam, what upsets me is the left’s attacks on people for investing their own money, where they want, with the “by your leave” approval from the right. I don’t give a crap where anyone invests their own money, but the left wants to involve themselves around everyone’s business. And it is all based on your hatred of conservative talk show hosts. The left has experienced complete failure when it comes to liberals talk shows; because they can’t get the financing. On a national level, no one will listen to them, hense no advertizers. But conservative alk radio is successful; they have advertizers, and you hate it.

“Lo and behold a timely article on gold. It was on the front page of Huffpo this morning. Thought it might be interesting.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/17/gold-prices-rise-welcome-_n_930027.html

Posted by: j2t2 at August 18, 2011 09:05 AM

Thanks j2t2, proof that this article is nothing more than the latest liberal talking point.

Posted by: TomT at August 18, 2011 9:35 AM
Comment #327843

Tom T

I want to take a sentence or two to endorse what you have said.

Wealthy people all, everyone of them, have gold in their portfolio. They know that the piece of paper or their financial records showing dollars and cents that have the American dollar are just an inflated item. They actually have very little value. The dollar is fiat currency. That is one reason for gold and other precious metals in their portfolios. That is why they are millionaires and then there are wannabes, that are jealous and hateful for someone else having what they want, which is coveting and against one of the ten commandments. They hate it when someone who thinks differently than they do has something they desire or the ability to acquire it. They hate it when someone who opposes them in the political arena has shown they have answers that make sense and that there are millions of people who share those thoughts and ideas. They hate it the worse when they are wrong, but are not humble enough to admit they are wrong.

The president of these United States sets their example. He lives up to the Muslim practice that it is ok to lie. He is a better liar that a community organizer, which it is reported he was good at. He endorses ideas that are detrimental to the well being of this nation. His policies are ruinous to the fabric and structure of this country. According to his compatriots, that is to say, his preacher, his neighborhood terrorists, his political allies, he has a strong dis-like for this country, as well as his wife who has a strong dis-like for this country. That is the way they were brought up and that is what they practice. What they sow they will reap.

The saddest point of all is that over 50,000,000 people who did not know where he came from, did not know what he had written, did not know his voting record, did not know his associates, did not know his mentors, just plain did not know him, voted for him to be the leader of this nation, which he has been an abysmal failure at doing.

How is he going to react when Turkey attacks Syria? The same way as the Lybian question? What war is he going to use to show he is a leader and should be re-elected to the WH?

Maranatha

Posted by: tom humes at August 18, 2011 11:37 AM
Comment #327844

TomT: “Adam, what upsets me is the left’s attacks on people for investing their own money, where they want…”

No matter how many times you say it or how many hidden partisan meanings you think you’ve found, this post is not an attack on what people (rich or poor) spend their money on. This post is an attack on the gold companies, the conservative media, and the TEA party for feeding the paranoia and buzz that has created a gold bubble.

Unless you are very wealthy or very wise you should be staying away from gold right now. In fact, you should be selling any gold you may have. Whether it’s 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year eventually the price is going to decline rapidly. Anyone who buys gold between now and then and is still holding it when the bottom falls out is simply flushing their hard earned dollars down the toilet.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 18, 2011 11:43 AM
Comment #327846

AD

Then why don’t you advise that we all sell our worthless pieces of paper that have a portrait of a president of these United States printed on them. They have a value tremendously less than one ounce of gold. Just for a reasonable approach, it will take over 1500 pieces of that worthless paper to get an ounce of gold. But who is the winner in that exchange? The gold buyer. He is taking those 1500+ pieces of paper and trading them for an item that will forever have value. The dollar from 1934 has a present value of less than 3 cents. And it continues downward. Gold, meaning all precious metals, will always have a value far greater than the dollar. As inflation of the dollar continues to go upward the value of gold will go upward.

You can call me foolish all you care. Meanwhile I am smiling all the way to my counting house. No, No not Ft. Knox. The Chinese are doing that and with the blessing of our government. Traitors.

Posted by: tom humes at August 18, 2011 11:54 AM
Comment #327847

Tom Humes: “Then why don’t you advise that we all sell our worthless pieces of paper that have a portrait of a president of these United States printed on them.”

Only a person that has zero faith in the long term growth and stability of the US economy would advocate we transition from US currency to something such as precious metals. If that’s you then that’s fine. Just don’t expect me to share that mentality. You speak of precious metals as a hedge, not as a total investment so I doubt you feel that way completely.

Posted by: Adam Ducker at August 18, 2011 12:04 PM
Comment #327851

AD

None of the above. As a standard.

Posted by: tom humes at August 18, 2011 2:01 PM
Comment #327854

TT,

Warped, it is a commodity, and I have listened to the left for decades tell us we are running out of oil, which is another commodity. If we are running out of oil because the left says there is none left under the ground, then how can the left say we have an unlimited supply, which is also under the same ground?

We will never run out of oil. However, we will run out of cheap oil. We have already run out of $5/barrel oil. We will soon run out of $50/barrel oil. At $100/barrel we might be able to plow on a little longer, but if we continue our current accelerating pace, soon oil would be too expensive to be usable.

gold has ALWAYS been a safe haven during times of inflation.
Although gold is a traditional hedge against hyperinflation, it is one of the worst thing to own during times of deflation. Deflation is a far more likely outcome in the near future than deflation. This is especially true when one considers the contractionary monetary policy advocated by Tea Party activists.
You need to remember, gold is not just used to make jewelry, it is also used in electronics and nations like China are buying gold for manufacturing purposes.
I’m already aware of this, however the recent spike in gold prices has nothing to do with its use as a raw material in industry. The price of gold today is established by a fiat no different than the fiat that backs the USD.
Warped, I don’t believe I have read AD wrong. By his own admission, he is upset at conservative talk show hosts for advertizing gold. He is upset that they would make a profit from their advertisement.
As far as I know, AD doesn’t care that talk radio hosts make money for selling advertisements. The problem AD sees is that the part of the program that is supposed to be news is actually full of plugs for the gold sellers. The whole thing is structured like an infomercial, which is misleading because it is not identified as such. Personally, I’m happy with that; I don’t care if conservatives lose their savings to gold sellers as long as they don’t want me to bail them out.
I have to assume, since AD is a liberal, he is upset that money which could be used by the Obama government to stimulate the economy is being hidden in gold investments, instead of being available for taxing. I’m sure Sorros and other rich liberals use investment in gold as a means to hide money from taxes. As for proof, I don’t need it; this is the MO of the left.

When you ASSume things are bound to go wrong. You have a clue what liberalism is about. You also have a poor understanding of economics. Firstly, the money you use to purchase gold is already available for taxing; the gold seller reports his/her income and must pay taxes on that. The income of a gold seller is obviously the money spent by gullible rightists to purchase gold. Secondly, in order for a stimulus to be most effective, John Maynard Keynes believed that the money needed to be borrowed; otherwise, it’s very difficult to end a liquidity trap like the one faced by our country.

TH,

The dollar is fiat currency

And so is gold (in the context of today’s speculation). Certainly, gold has a stable price as a commodity used in industry, but that price is far below its current selling price. Dollar bills have a stable price as a commodity used in kindling, but that price is far below its current selling price.
The president of these United States sets their example. He lives up to the Muslim practice that it is ok to lie. He is a better liar that a community organizer, which it is reported he was good at.

Where does this come from??? Why would Obama live up to what you claim is a Muslim practice given the fact that he is not a Muslim? Although I’m not a Muslim, I have read a bit of their literature; I’ve never encountered anything that says its OK to lie except in a few rare specific circumstances.

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 18, 2011 3:24 PM
Comment #327857

WR

Read more.

Posted by: tom humes at August 18, 2011 4:45 PM
Comment #327869

Gold is not always a fantastic investment.
However, gold is rarely worth nothing.
Gold is like an insurance policy.
And the way things are going, the U.S. Dollar may not be worth much in the next 10 years.
The U.S. Dollar is more likely to become more worthless than gold.

  • A 2001 U.S. Dollar is now only worth 78 cents (or less).
  • A 1990 U.S. Dollar is now only worth 58 cents.
  • A 1970 U.S. Dollar is now only worth 17 cents.
  • A 1950 U.S. Dollar is now only worth 11 cents.
  • A 1913 U.S. Dollar is now only worth 04 cents.
And that is based on the official inflation figures.

The real numbers may be worse, since the formulas were modified in 1983 and 1998 to make inflation, unemployment, appear less severe, and make GDP and the U.S. Dollar look better.

  • Inflation may really be: 8% (not 2%).
  • Unemployemnt may really be: 22% (not 9.5%).
  • GDP may really be negative: (e.g. -1.5% (not +1.6%).

The total U.S. M2 Money Supply (M2: M1 + most savings accounts, money market accounts, retail money market mutual funds, and small denomination time deposits (certificates of deposit of under $100,000)) is about $9.5 Trillion as of mid 2011.

The total U.S. nation-wide debt is $57 Trillion.

The total $57 Trillion nation-wide debt is over 6 the M2 Money Supply!

So, what is wrong with this picture ?

  • QUESTION: So, where is the money going to come from to merely pay the interest on the $57 Trillion nation-wide debt, when it does not yet exist?
So far, no one has yet answered that question (aside from the usual “They create print it out of thin are! A LOT of it!”).

Have you ever played the game of Monopoly?
Imagine one player who can create all the money they want out of thin air.
Try it sometime and see what happens.
Before too long, that person owns everything, and everyone else is broke or deep in debt.

I bought some gold at $1,440.
Now it is at $1,828.
So, I guess I am one of those fools, eh?

Even if gold falls back below that (which is not very likely anytime soon), big deal.
It is not necessarily a great investment.
It is insurance, because the U.S. Dollar is likely to become more worthless than gold.
Actually, I hope the economy recovers soon and robustly.
But I do not believe in fairy tales.

Fear fuels the hype on gold, but the fear is understandable, and possibly justified (since gold will never be worthless, but the currency may become completely debauched).
People are starting to realize that the 80-year debt-pyramid is reaching the end of the cycle and collapse.
The world is in debt up to its eyeballs.
How did that happen?
Simple.
Have you ever played the game of Monopoly?
Imagine one player who can create all the money they want out of thin air.
Try it sometime and see what happens.
Before too long, that person owns everything, and everyone else is broke or deep in debt.

  • “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto-determination practiced in past centuries.” - David Rockefeller, in an address to the Trilateral Commission meeting, year 1991.
  • “U.S.A.’s balance of payments deficits is so strong and irreversible, that we must accept that at some future date there will be a run against the U.S. Dollar. Probably the kind of disorderly run that precipitates a global financial crisis.” - Dr. Paul A. Samuelson, Nobel Prize Winner in Economics, year 2005.
  • “The government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the tax payers will be saved immense sums of interest. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the government’s greatest creative opportunity. - Abraham Lincoln, assassinated President of the U.S.
  • “Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce … and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.” - James A. Garfield, assassinated President of the U.S.
  • “The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled.” - John Kenneth Galbraith, Economist
  • “Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talk of sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile … Once a nation parts with control of its credit, it matters not who makes the nation’s laws … Usury once in control will wreck any nation.” - William Lyon MacKenzie King, former Prime Minister of Canada (who also succeeded in nationalizing the Bank of Canada).
  • In 1913, the struggle for a better monetary system was lost when President Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act, giving the privately owned international banking cartel the power to create the United States money. Later, Woodrow Wilson stated: “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world, no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. - Woodrow Wilson, President of the U.S. 1913-1921.
  • “Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when the speak in condemnation of it.” - Woodrow Wilson, President of the U.S. 1913-1921.
  • “Fiat money is the cause of inflation, and the amount which people lose in purchasing power is exactly the amount which was taken from them and transferred to their governments by this process.” (G. Edward Griffin, “The Creature from Jekyll Island”)
  • “A fiat monetary system allows power and influence to fall into the hands of those who control the creation of new money, and to those who get to use the money or credit early in its circulation. The insidious and eventual cost falls on unidentified victims who are usually oblivious to the cause of their plight. This system of legalized plunder (though not constitutional) allows one group to benefit at the expense of another. An actual transfer of wealth goes from the poor and the middle class to those in privileged financial positions.” (Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX), “Paper Money and Tyranny”)
  • “When the President signs this bill [converting to a fiat-money system], the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized … the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill.” (Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. 1913)
  • “Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.” (Paul Warburg, drafter of the Federal Reserve Act)
  • “Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation and I care not who makes its laws.” (Mayer Amschel Rothschild)
  • “Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.” (Fifth plank of the Communist Manifesto, 1848)
  • “Ideologically, [sound money] belongs in same class with political constitutions and bills of rights.” In the name of civil liberty and civilization itself, the Fed should be abolished. (Ludwig von Mises).
  • Senator, Warren G. Harding, who was elected to the Presidency in 1920, said in a 1921 Congressional inquiry that the Reserve was a private banking monopoly. He said: “The Federal Reserve Bank is an institution owned by the stockholding member banks. The Government has not a dollar’s worth of stock in it.” His term was cut short in 1923 when he mysteriously died, leading to rumors that he was poisoned. This claim was never substantiated because his wife would not allow an autopsy.
  • In 1993, Senator Bob Kerrey promised to support President Bill Clinton’s Budget Plan, if Clinton would appoint a Committee to study the condition of the American economy. The President established a 32-member bipartisan committee and in August, 1994, they issued their report. According to the committee’s findings, by the year 2012, unless drastic changes are made, we won’t even be able to pay the interest on the national debt. Knowing this, the federal government has allowed the trend to continue, almost as if they’re trying to run our economy into the ground. It seems obvious that the destruction of the American economy will eventually be a result of trying to keep people in deep debt, and financially enslaved.
  • In a letter to Edward M. House (President Woodrow Wilson’s closest aide), dated November 23, 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt said: “The real truth of the matter is, and you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
  • “I sincerely believe … that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale.” (Thomas Jefferson)
  • “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.” (Daniel Webster)
  • “All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation.” (John Adams)
  • “There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.” (Lord John Maynard Keynes (1883-1946), renowned British economist).
  • “Only small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity.” - Marshall McLuhan, media “guru”
At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, … , and re-elect, at least, possibly, until repeatedly rewarding failure, and repeatedly rewarding FOR-SALE, incompetent, arrogant, greedy, and corrupt incumbent politicians in Congress with perpetual re-election rates finally becomes too painful. Posted by: d.a.n at August 18, 2011 8:25 PM
Comment #327874
Thanks j2t2, proof that this article is nothing more than the latest liberal talking point.

TomT this link proves nothing. Unless your one of those people that believe Newsbusters actually exposes liberal bias. Did you actually bother to read the thing?

BTW I answered your questions yet have not received the same courtesy from you.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 18, 2011 10:04 PM
Comment #327881


Dan, I think we know that our day of reckoning is coming, but till then, let’s get some more booze on the tab and keep this party going.

The young think they will die young and the old think they will not live to see the end of the world.

There is no denying the lure of gold. Men will endure great hardships to find it. Aliens will travel great distances to obtain it. Gods will hang out in the material world to be adorned with it.

Posted by: jlw at August 19, 2011 2:35 AM
Comment #327890
As for proof, I don’t need it; this is the MO of the left.

Tom T while you may not need proof most of the rest of us do, otherwise your comments are as foolish as they sound. You can do better TomT. These types of comment make us all think you are saying that because you have no proof, only false accusations.

The president of these United States sets their example. He lives up to the Muslim practice that it is ok to lie.

Tsk tsk Tom H. Why is it you have to stoop to such nonsensical comments? Why not use facts to prove your point on occasion? If now is the time to buy gold,in your mind, speak up prove to us it is. This embarrassing drivel only serves to make our point that the gold market is ideological driven by complete loonies. You can do better.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 19, 2011 11:05 AM
Comment #327893

I never advocated to buy gold at this time. The question of buying gold in general was raised. I do no advocate buying gold at any time. That would put me in the seat of advising a financial matter for an individual without the credentials to legally do so. What I do in my own situation is all that I was trying to express. You people read into it something that was not said. My personal opinion is that precious metals should be looked at continually to see if they fit ones own portfolio. If they choose to buy, sell, hold or do nothing, then that is their choice and none of my business.

Posted by: tom humes at August 19, 2011 2:06 PM
Comment #327895

Many thanks to d.a.n. for all the quotes he provided.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2011 3:16 PM
Comment #327898


Royal, I second that motion.

Is it just a coincidence that the American peoples adoption of a highly wasteful hedonistic lifestyle, The American Way, is also the most profitable for capital?

Is it just coincidence that any who might have a public forum and use it to denounce the American Way as unsustainable are attacked by the propagandists of the capital owned media outlets?

Is it just coincidence that capital is more than willing to financially support virtually every politician for election and reelection?

If the government had crashed alien space craft, there is no way they could keep it secret.

Posted by: jlw at August 19, 2011 4:25 PM
Comment #327902
I never advocated to buy gold at this time. The question of buying gold in general was raised. I do no advocate buying gold at any time.

I that case, my apologies for misinterpreting what you said earlier. Purchasing gold can be useful if one anticpate4s hyperinflation in the near future. However, there are other assets that probably perform better. In today’s economy, deflation is a far greater risk than inflation; so purchasing gold today is a poor choice.

Instead of continuing to beat a dead horse, may I change the topic slightly:Why on earth do we manufacture useless pennies?

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 19, 2011 5:15 PM
Comment #327903

Since the posting of this rediculous article by Adam D, the price of gold has climbed another $130 an ounce. An increase of 6.5% just this week. Oh, by the way, which way has the stock market moved this week? Down almost 2000 points in the past month. I know this is a real tough one for mush head liberals; but gold-up, stocks-down…

Posted by: TomT at August 19, 2011 5:33 PM
Comment #327913
gold-up, stocks-down

And so, once again a bubble continues to expand. Just like how the Dutch thought it was a smart thing to invest in tulips back in 1636/1637 because it seemed the price would increase forever.

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 19, 2011 9:31 PM
Comment #327916
I know this is a real tough one for mush head liberals; but gold-up, stocks-down…

TomT it sorta proves the point that gold is being ideological driven doesn’t it? I mean the demand for gold jewelry can’t be that high if everybody is selling it whilst gold is so high priced. Certainly electronics are not moving to the point where the price of gold as a commodity is driving the price of gold up. What does that leave us when at the same time stocks are falling?

Posted by: j2t2 at August 19, 2011 10:39 PM
Comment #327925

WR, I am sure that most people would never invest in tulips, in fact I doubt if Sorros himself would invest in tulips.

“What does that leave us when at the same time stocks are falling?”

Posted by: j2t2 at August 19, 2011 10:39 PM

I guess it means that people are scared and have no faith in the Obama economy. I will say this; what small amount I still have invested in the stock market has lost about 20% in the last few weeks. And what I have invested in precious metals is up. Oh by the way, I do not thank Beck, Limbaugh, or Hannity for moving my money out of stocks a few years ago; I thank my neighbor, who is a retired investment banker and who warned me to move my investments when Obama was elected in Nov. 2008. So I did, and it was the best move I ever made. Everyone except the blind, could see that Obama was going to do nothing for business and jobs.

Posted by: TomT at August 20, 2011 8:24 AM
Comment #327927
I am sure that most people would never invest in tulips, in fact I doubt if Sorros himself would invest in tulips.

I’m referring to Tulip Mania, the first recorded market bubble of modern times. It seems silly today, but many very serious Dutchmen bought and sold tulips for extremely extraordinary prices.

Posted by: Warped Reality at August 20, 2011 8:41 AM
Comment #327952
I guess it means that people are scared and have no faith in the Obama economy.

Yes Tom T an ideological run up in gold prices.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 20, 2011 4:54 PM
Comment #327990

Warped,

“I’m referring to Tulip Mania, the first recorded market bubble of modern times. It seems silly today, but many very serious Dutchmen bought and sold tulips for extremely extraordinary prices.”

Surely those that are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.


If some of these folks buying up gold are doing so in preparation of some sort apocalypse, and if they don’t actually hold the gold, in whatever form that is other than a certificate declaring them possessors of the gold, then what truly is the point.
I can understand someone fleshing out their portfolio by purchasing some precious metals as a commodity, however there is a risk, just as there is a risk with any commodity, that those more savvy will eventually pull the plug on the rally, and take their profits at the expense of the rubes.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at August 20, 2011 8:12 PM
Comment #327992

Warped,

“I’m referring to Tulip Mania, the first recorded market bubble of modern times. It seems silly today, but many very serious Dutchmen bought and sold tulips for extremely extraordinary prices.”

Surely those that are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.


If some of these folks buying up gold are doing so in preparation of some sort apocalypse, and if they don’t actually hold the gold, in whatever form that is other than a certificate declaring them possessors of the gold, then what truly is the point.
I can understand someone fleshing out their portfolio by purchasing some precious metals as a commodity, however there is a risk, just as there is a risk with any commodity, that those more savvy will eventually pull the plug on the rally, and take their profits at the expense of the rubes.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at August 20, 2011 8:14 PM
Comment #327997

Warped,

“I’m referring to Tulip Mania, the first recorded market bubble of modern times. It seems silly today, but many very serious Dutchmen bought and sold tulips for extremely extraordinary prices.”

Surely those that are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.


If some of these folks buying up gold are doing so in preparation of some sort apocalypse, and if they don’t actually hold the gold, in whatever form that is other than a certificate declaring them possessors of the gold, then what truly is the point.
I can understand someone fleshing out their portfolio by purchasing some precious metals as a commodity, however there is a risk, just as there is a risk with any commodity, that those more savvy will eventually pull the plug on the rally, and take their profits at the expense of the rubes.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at August 20, 2011 10:07 PM
Comment #328007

tom humes-
The reality of Gold is that it’s inherently rare. Gold, being fairly non-reactive, doesn’t get so easily changed like other elements do in ores so they float up towards the crust.

The reality of Gold mining is that the easy finds have mostly been taken up. The same thing holds true for oil.

You want my honest opinion? You all are being played by commodity traders who have very narrow interests, interests that don’t necessarily include the rest of us.

The president of these United States sets their example. He lives up to the Muslim practice that it is ok to lie.

Convenient, isn’t it, to trot that out. If I tell you he is, by all evidence, a Christian, that his father had renounced the faith, then you would say that this can be explained by the fact that he and his father lied about it.

You go around telling people what they’re real sentiments are. That’s real convenient, too, because it allows you to change them into implacable unreasoning enemies who can be fought without scruple or care for fact.

I think the millions who voted for him saw the truth in him, but the truth for some folks is an inconvenient barrier to having things their way.

As for Gold? It’s shiny, it’s sparkly, but you can’t eat it, it doesn’t do work for you in and of itself, and the only reason why it’s so valuable, is that a bunch of people in the market have agreed that it is so. When the economy recovers, that agreement will settle at a lower value, and everybody who bought gold, that supposedly sterling investment, will lose money if they don’t time their liquidation of that asset right.

The real secret to Gold’s value is that it’s rarity maintains a relatively value simply by the virtue of supply and demand. It’s hard to get, like flawless diamonds or rubies. But apart from that, it’s value is still a figment of our imagination.

You are foolish if you put your trust in gold. What you should put your trust in is your fellow man, and the value of the work they do. At the end of the day, the value and the usefulness of any currency, whether it’s gold or paper money, depends on the useful work and employment it generates, and how that sustains us all amidst reality’s imperfect conditions.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 21, 2011 10:00 AM
Comment #328042

My fellow man is the last I trust. They are too fallible or corrupt.

Obama said he was a Muslim. Was he lying? I don’t think so.

“If I tell you he is, by all evidence, a Christian, that his father had renounced the faith, then you would say that this can be explained by the fact that he and his father lied about it.”

You qualified your statement with an “if”.
That makes your statement an “if” statement, which is a no fact statement.

You look at gold your way and I will look at gold my way. I started collecting precious metals, of which gold is only one, many years ago; probably about the same age as you are right now. I will not reveal how much or how I have purchased my quantities in the past. I will tell you my adviser knows what he is doing. Do I trust him with my life, no. In the area of precious metals he has credentials and he lives up to his billing.

Posted by: tom humes at August 21, 2011 8:04 PM
Comment #328046

SD said,

“As for Gold? It’s shiny, it’s sparkly, but you can’t eat it, it doesn’t do work for you in and of itself, and the only reason why it’s so valuable, is that a bunch of people in the market have agreed that it is so. When the economy recovers, that agreement will settle at a lower value, and everybody who bought gold, that supposedly sterling investment, will lose money if they don’t time their liquidation of that asset right.

The real secret to Gold’s value is that it’s rarity maintains a relatively value simply by the virtue of supply and demand. It’s hard to get, like flawless diamonds or rubies. But apart from that, it’s value is still a figment of our imagination.”

But what SD didn’t say about gold or any other thing of value; is that it is best when taken from those who buy it and given to those who won’t. Called re-distrabution of wealth.

Posted by: Mike at August 21, 2011 9:37 PM
Comment #328239

Gold also has many industrial uses.
And there is a lot of jewelry containing gold, silver, etc.
So, to say gold’s “value is still a figment of our imagination” makes no sense.
But, consider the source, eh?

Owning quality assets that can retain value is a wise investment.
There are other wise investments; especially if we get double-digit inflation again, or high inflation for a long time.

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, … , and re-elect, at least, possibly, until repeatedly rewarding failure, and repeatedly rewarding FOR-SALE, incompetent, arrogant, greedy, and corrupt incumbent politicians in Congress with perpetual re-election rates finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at August 25, 2011 9:42 PM
Comment #329696

Today’s date is Sept.23, 2011.
Both gold and silver are falling quite rapidly, and where the bottom will be, nobody knows, not even the ‘EXPERTS’.
Although I have a few ounces of gold and silver, they were purchased at a time when the prices were reasonable, purely as a safety net, not to get rich.
The only people to gain real wealth with precious metals are those trading back and forth with non existent gold and silver in ledger form only….. or… the gold and silver peddling shysters ‘delivering’ physical gold to your home for a huge markup over the spot price.

The wealth of any nation lies in its ability to manufacture, not how much silver, gold, or platinum it has hoarded away in vaults.

The selling out of the United States began with the much vaunted J.F.K. in 1960. He was the President who first allowed opportunists posing as U.S. Businessmen to import six percent of all manufactured goods sold in the United States.
First it was from Japan to take advantage of the cheap wages there at that time. Then it was Taiwan, and now Communist China.
With each succeeding president, the import door was opened just a little wider until it was finally removed from its hinges and thrown away.
When was the last time anyone has seen an item with a “Made in the U.S.A.” label?
Virtually nothing is made here! Yet at one time EVERYTHING was manufactured in the United States with jobs aplenty for anyone who wished to work …… still, the morons of both parties in Washington are puzzled as to why the unemployment figures are so high.
As a reminder to anyone with an interest…. Take a look at the United States’ Import Tax in comparison to any other country in the World, you will see the real reason why the American workers can’t compete. America became the dumping ground for foreign manufacturers, all while they were, and are still being aided and abetted by American “businessmen” making fortunes for themselves and KILLING America in the process.

During the 1950s, the United States was the world’s largest lending nation, today it is the World’s biggest borrower, standing with a beggar’s bowl mooching China’s spare change.
In less than a single generation, the greatest transfer of wealth in all of Human History has taken place.

To paraphrase from an old Scottish Jacobite song….
“Their Country was sold, for foreign gold.
Oh, what a parcel of rogues in a Nation”.

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Comment #330877

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