Democrats & Liberals Archives

The Republican Message

To Republicans, messaging is everything. It makes no difference whether the message is true or correct or even reasonable. You get the message right, you win; you get the message wrong, you lose. The Republican members of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission followed this rule exactly: they got their message on the Right side of the political spectrum.

The bipartisan Commission, set up to find the causes for the Great Recession of 2007, has both Democratic and Republican members. The four prominent Republican members are: Bill Thomas, House Ways and Means Committee member; Keith Hennessey, head of National Economic Council under George W. Bush; Peter Wallison, fellow at American Enterprise Institute; and Douglas Holtz-Eakin, previous head of Congressional Budget Office.

Unbelievably, here is what these four economically-astute Republican members of the Commission recently did:

During a private commission meeting last week, all four Republicans voted in favor of banning the phrases “Wall Street” and “shadow banking” and the words “interconnection” and “deregulation” from the panel’s final report, according to a person familiar with the matter and confirmed by Brooksley E. Born, one of the six commissioners who voted against the proposal.

How on earth could you discuss the financial cataclysm we experienced without referring to "Wall Sreet," whose "creativity" brought the crash about? How can you not talk of "shadow banking," which consisted of investors, hedge funds and investment firms providing credit, all of which was going on? How can you deny "interconnection," or the derivatives, borrowings and investments that bind financial institutions to each other and make firms "too-big-to-fail"? How is it possible to disregard the effects of "deregulation" that allowed firms to do crazy things?

But these brilliant Republicans did this. They placed the blame for the entire crash on the government:

The Republicans' report is expected to conclude that government policy helped inflate the housing bubble and that prices weren't expected to crash because the government pushed homeownership so aggressively. They say that the report will note that once the bubble burst, a financial panic followed because firms weren't adequately prepared.

Believe it or not, it's all the government's fault. Wall Street had nothing to do with it. Bankers were not responsible for the crash. Subprime lending had no bearing. Unexplainable derivatives did not hurt us in any way. The only one to blame is the big government that never does anything right.

This fits neatly with the Republican message: Government should keep its hands off of Big Business or Big Finance; whatever business does is proper, excellent and for the great good of the country.

That government has sole responsibility for the crash is obviously a lie. But it does not matter. Republicans will get the message and repeat it endlessly.

Posted by Paul Siegel at December 15, 2010 8:26 PM
Comments
Comment #315298

Paul,

Great thread, well put and timely.

The right will stay on message…the message will be a lie…it will not make a difference if it is a lie or not, our American electorate will swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Have you ever heard the term, “Suicide by Cop”? I think the American public is in the throes of a similar weakness. We don’t have the nerve to just end it for ourselves, so we are committing, “Suicide by Republican”.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 15, 2010 11:44 PM
Comment #315301

Paul,

While I understand your sentiment, I have to agree using terms which generalize and have conspiratorial overtones has no place in analysis of a financial crisis.

Wall Street did nothing, it’s just a street. Banks x, y, and z did plenty of stupid and criminal things.

I have no idea what shadow banking is. It sounds like something Alex Jones might try to sell.

Has this report been released? Until I read that it has a right wing bias, I think it’s a bit unfair to comment on the taste of sausage based on watching it get made.

Posted by: gergle at December 16, 2010 12:00 AM
Comment #315302

Barney Frank in 2005 arguing for deregulation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CgJq8OYEl0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-YtqVIKTTE

I think it is very hard to make the case that Government was not a full partner in the crisis.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at December 16, 2010 12:10 AM
Comment #315311

Craig Holmes,
Why the government gave Wall Street the ability to govern and regulate themselves, can you prove it was their intent the Banks shot themselves?

No, blaming the government for giving them the freedom they asked for is sort of like a teenager blaming their parents for letting them stay out all night after they get into trouble. Yet, it amazes me that Conservatives want to blame the government, but do not want the same government to reform Wall Street.

Now, isn’t that sort of like a teenager telling Mom and Dad that they won’t do it again if they are not punished for screwing up?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at December 16, 2010 6:38 AM
Comment #315316

Wall Street is now completing its second straight year of record profits. From catastrophic collapse in late 2008 to unprecedented profits in 2009-10. How did that happen? Brilliant management by Wall Street executives? No, it was all due to the federal bailouts and the Fed loaning money to them at essentially zero interest rates and at the same time providing a risk free opportunity to invest in returns at over 3%. Fixed rate investment trading (Treasuries, etc.) have been the primary source of those profits over the past two years. The American public treasury financed their recovery and return to profitability.

Now Wall Street wants the government to stay out of its business. It doesn’t want any new regulations. Henry Schlactman correctly nailed their attitude as that of a petulant unrepentant teenager.

Someday, the American public will wake up to this charade. It will awaken to the realization that moneyed interests have essentially taken complete control of the economy of the US at the expense of the general public. You would think that debates in Congress over extending unemployment benefits for workers affected by the collapse of the economy would be laughable considering the amount of assistance provided Wall Street and related businesses, e.g., AIG etc.

Posted by: Rich at December 16, 2010 8:19 AM
Comment #315318

Republicans have mastered the defense of the killer who stands trial for murdering his parents asking the courts for mercy because he is an orphan.

The very government policies that contributed to the Great Recession were fostered and maintained by Republicans. And now, they, want to claim it is the government’s fault - as a dodge from the fact that THEY were in control of that government for most of the years between the Tech. Bubble (wake up call), and the Great Recession brought on by the Housing Bubble.

Who benefits from less government? Those whose actions and wealth reject public scrutiny and regulation. At the heart of it, philosophically, Republicans are economic anarchists, wanting those who can get rich by hook or crook, to remain free to grow their ill gotten gains. Ergo, the Republican opposition to Wealthy tax increases, Estate Taxes, and regulation of business at all levels. Republicans are no more the champion of the American working family than Hitler was the champion of Jewish rights to exist.

Truth be told however, enough Democrats are no different for all intents and purposes, as they are bought and sold by the campaign contributions or threats of the National Chamber of Commerce members as easily as Republicans. The only difference is that these Democrats are not proud or boastful of it, as Republicans are.

America as we know it, is coming to an end. We have 10 or less years before our government fails fiscally and the economy follows. Voters have got to find an alternative at the polls to reelecting these politicians who refuse to reform the system in favor of the ordinary working American family and the growing throng of poor, ex-middle class families, if that failure is to be averted.

Posted by: David R. Remer at December 16, 2010 8:37 AM
Comment #315326

I have no interest in commenting on PS’s posts any longer. He never answers any question or responds. I encourage all conservatives to do the same. Let the libs break their arms patting each other on the back.

Posted by: TomT at December 16, 2010 11:54 AM
Comment #315328

>I encourage all conservatives to do the same. Let the libs break their arms patting each other on the back.
Posted by: TomT at December 16, 2010 11:54 AM


TT,

Good idea. We can now have an intelligent conversation, while discussing serious issues. All that chaff just got in the way anyways.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 16, 2010 12:13 PM
Comment #315331

My most recent Letter to the Editor, of my local newspaper:

Editor,

50% of the wealth in America today rests in the hands of about 5% of its population. A government dominated by a few individuals is called an Oligarchy.

SCOTUS, in Citizens United, handed over political power to Corporate America. Corporations owe no allegiance to America or any nation. Power in the hands of corporations is called a Plutocracy.

By following current trends, and court opinions, we see a mix of the two. We can call the results a Plutarchy.

The new political party of TeaPublicans soon to dominate the DC scene, are worried that the wealthiest of the wealthy are paying too much in income tax. A nation without income is called ‘broke’.

If the wealthy are mostly concerned with becoming more wealthy, if SCOTUS is concerned that the wealthy don’t have enough political power, and if TeaPublicans are worried that the ultra-wealthy can’t keep enough of their wealth…who’s minding the store called America? Does anybody out there think about keeping our Democratic Republic, democratic? Are they saying that becoming a Plutarchy is preferred?

Of course I don’t know if it will be published, but I had to give it a shot.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 16, 2010 1:30 PM
Comment #315345

dude, way to go!!!
Tom T…..se yaaaa !!!!!!!
If you only had an ounce of the intelligence that Paul has, things would be a whole lot different for you.
Those of us who have been here for years, know him pretty well, so his behavior is nothing close to strange.

Posted by: jane doe at December 16, 2010 4:30 PM
Comment #315349

Jane, may I call you jane. If you have known Paul for years, perhaps you could answer a question for me. Is the pic of Paul, on his web site, really him or is it a pic of King Tut? He looks like he has been rode hard and put up wet.

Posted by: Beretta9 at December 16, 2010 4:52 PM
Comment #315354

Beretta, attacking the messenger because the message is not what your movement leaders have allowed you to see?

How pathetic is that?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2010 6:28 PM
Comment #315357

It wasn’t an attack. It was a serious question. Is the pic really Paul, or is it a joke pic? Is that what happens to a person who lives the life of a liberal? :)

Posted by: Beretta9 at December 16, 2010 6:37 PM
Comment #315361

j2t2,

‘Pathetic’ does not go far enough to describe the despicable nature of those comments. This turkey caught the insult disease from a fellow named bill. The two of them don’t have half a brain between them. So, insult is their only ammo.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 16, 2010 7:06 PM
Comment #315364

Pathetic is really kind of weak for some of these jack wagons. They come out shooting blanks and insulting people because they don’t have a cogent thought between them.

Posted by: Jeff at December 16, 2010 7:27 PM
Comment #315367

Ya know Marysdude, a week or two ago I compared warped to myself and others, to include Beretta and Bill, and I am now thinking I may have insulted Warped as the level of discussion coming from these guys continues to sink. Perhaps I should have included Beck and Limbaugh in the group with me as well as these guys to get to some sort of an equal balance of intelligence between my group and warped. I do think I gave them to much credit.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2010 7:37 PM
Comment #315373

B9,

Who cares how Paul looks?

A longtime Conservative editor hered used Montgomery Burns as his photo as well as a ficticous biography. No one ever brought that up as a point of contention.

I don’t know what you are trying to accomplish here. Are you trying to stir Paul into commenting by mocking his apperaance? It’s been ages since I’ve seen Paul post a comment, so I don’t know if what your trying to do works or not.

I suggest dropping the subject of Paul’s photograph and instead debate the content of his article. AKA “critique the message not the messenger”. I’m sure someone from the left wing peanut gallery will gladly respond to your critiques.

j2t2,
I’m not insulted. I’m just a 21 year old who is spending to much time online and not enough time studying calculus.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 16, 2010 8:02 PM
Comment #315376

Why are you guys bringing me into this, I didn’t say anything about Paul.

Posted by: Bill at December 16, 2010 8:08 PM
Comment #315379

Bill it’s the “your either with us or against us” mentality we have leaned from the far right here at WB. Do you disagree with Beretta and his asinine comments?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2010 8:15 PM
Comment #315380

B9, that has to be, without a doubt, the most ignorant, shallow and just plain dumb comment you’ve made… Well, in here at least.
WTF does it matter what Paul looks like???? Is that how you base how to treat a person? Is that what makes you decide if they’re worth sharing some of your oxygen with? Won’t you allow yourself to speak to someone who doesn’t pass your muster?????
You certainly have not gleaned any knowledge or wisdom since you began posting here. Perhaps if you’re so offended by appearance of authors on here, you should just LEAVE!

Posted by: jane doe at December 16, 2010 8:16 PM
Comment #315382

Henry:

I don’t believe the govenment was to blame. I don’t think it was Republicans as David contends or Democrats, or the Bankers or who ever. I think they were equal partners.

Here is the Congressional Black Caucus getting into the act:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

This is 2005.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at December 16, 2010 8:23 PM
Comment #315383

Is it just me or does anybody else see the irony of an article with the title “The Republican Message” and Beretta’s comments on this thread?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2010 8:46 PM
Comment #315388

I don’t know about B9, but I do know Reid shelved the spending bill. The left is falling apart.

Posted by: Bill at December 16, 2010 9:49 PM
Comment #315390

The left can’t fall apart. We’ve never been together. There has never been an organized Democratic Party. That was one of Will Rogers most well known satirical jabs, “I don’t belong to a political organization, I’m a Democrat”. Not many here even know who Will Rogers is, it’s been so long since he said that on stage. Democrats are more like free thinkers. TeaPublicans are more lockstep non-thinkers.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 16, 2010 10:43 PM
Comment #315391
Bill, that comment in 314831 was way over the top, even for someone from the dark side. It pretty much calls for an apology. Posted by: Marysdude at December 10, 2010 06:50 AM

On Dec 10th, I read a comment on another thread here on the left column, and I wrote the above response to it. I just now went back to copy that comment to here, but it was gone. Apparently the WB Manager had removed it. The thing is, B9’s version was phrased almost verbatim. It’s as though there is a tandem effort to chase Paul off the site. Please someone tell me I’m a paranoid conspiracy nut.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 16, 2010 10:55 PM
Comment #315392

Marysdude

You’re a conspiracy nut :) Even paranoids have real enemies, though.


Unfortunately, the internet is filled with trolls.

Posted by: gergle at December 16, 2010 11:27 PM
Comment #315393

I think it is more that our far right trolls don’t like the fact they can’t get to Paul. The verbatim thing is to be expected from these guys in fact if it wasn’t verbatim then we could wonder, but lockstep is as lockstep does and these guys are getting their misinformation from the same lock stepping place. Of course this is no surprise as we all know

“Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources. What’s more, the study shows that greater exposure to Fox News increases misinformation.”

http://www.alternet.org/media/149193/study_confirms_that_fox_news_makes_you_stupid/

Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2010 11:57 PM
Comment #315396

“I don’t know about B9”

I really didn’t expect you to answer the question yourself Bill, but when you get a chance ask Rush what the right answer is OK?

“but I do know Reid shelved the spending bill. The left is falling apart”.

From Hufpo-

“But Reid announced Thursday night that he didn’t have the votes he needed to block the maneuver or ensure debate after the reading of the bill. The reason, he said, is that nine Republicans who initially promised to support him had changed their minds.”

Seems it’s the repubs falling apart as well Bill.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 17, 2010 1:48 AM
Comment #315400

j2t2, I don’t think it is Republicans, who are falling apart. Constituents flooded the phone lines with calls to their Republican and Democrat Senators, and they fell in line with the minority leadership to pass a continuing resolution and shelf the omnibus spending bill. This was good for America, as was the Democrat support in the House to extend the Bush Tax Cuts. Many believe it was the influence of the Tea Party that is bringing conservative sanity back to America.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 17, 2010 7:20 AM
Comment #315407

Con, I agree it was both parties that were at fault here. The dems for waiting so late to put this spending bill on the table and the repubs for backing out of the agreement to push it through. We may be better served by prolonging the debate on the bill but with fanatical conservatives in the lead on this one it could be bad fore the country as they have one mantra cut taxes, stop spending. That is not sanity. Especially when we are watching them add another stimulus sized debt in the name of tax cuts to the national debt.


“Conservative sanity” what an oxymoron. Teabaggers want to destroy Social Security and Medicare using the ruse of spending cuts.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 17, 2010 9:34 AM
Comment #315408
Many believe it was the influence of the Tea Party that is bringing conservative sanity back to America.

So the Tea Party supports larger deficits and adding to our debt?

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 17, 2010 9:36 AM
Comment #315413

j2t2,

Teabaggers want to destroy Social Security and Medicare using the ruse of spending cuts.

So? Irrelevant of their ruse, or motivations, or even rhetoric they have to use to sell the point, wouldn’t that be a great day for America…Removing social security and medicare and actually expecting people to provide for their own retirement. What a concept. Actually being responsible for yourself.

And by the way, I would “love” to meet some of you, and simply dare you to call me a “teabagger” to my face. You would definitely become intimately familiar with the term rather quickly!

Posted by: Adam at December 17, 2010 11:12 AM
Comment #315414

Adam,

Threats are easy in the internet…not so easy in person sometimes. I agree you are no longer a Teabaggie, now you are a TeaPublican…same difference, different nomenclature.

As a rule I don’t talk to fools, but given the seriousness of this issue, let me answer just one of your ridiculous assertions.

>Removing social security and Medicare and actually expecting people to provide for their own retirement. What a concept. Actually being responsible for yourself.

We’ve been there…done that. Have you no concept at all of the history of our country, its problems or its solutions to those problems? Do you honestly believe we will all fit on that mountain top of yours, eating berries and trapping game? Come out of your dark place, read a little history and come back when you have something serious to say.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 17, 2010 11:31 AM
Comment #315415

Adam, the foolishness of the “being responsible for yourself” argument is not worth going into now. If you are unaware of the history that gave rise to Social Security and Medicare then I would suggest you consider looking into it. If you are aware and still want to use the being responsible argument then we will just have to disagree.

Let ye without sin….

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200904150038

Seems many on the right like to dish it out but can’t take it when their own name for themselves is used to describe them. I would suggest, Adam, that when those on the right stop with the names I to will stop with the names. Until then we all need to get use to it.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/pagespage/2009/12/blame-teabag-tag-on-the-right.html

Posted by: j2t2 at December 17, 2010 12:22 PM
Comment #315428

J2t2, I know I am wasting my breath by trying to explain this to you, but I will try one more time:

“Con, I agree it was both parties that were at fault here. The dems for waiting so late to put this spending bill on the table and the repubs for backing out of the agreement to push it through.”

While it is certainly true that democrats could have passed this spending bill months and months ago, when they had a filibuster proof majority, they didn’t. Why didn’t they? Because there was an election on the horizon and they did not want to pass a pork filled spending bill before an election, for obvious reasons. Secondly, you accuse the republicans of “backing out” of an agreement. Yes they did, and why did they? Because the Tea Party conservatives tied up their phone lines and email, telling them to not vote for this bill. I promise you, this is what happened. Now, did the constituents of these republican senators have the right to call them? Yes, they did. And I suggest you get used to this, because you guys on the left only represent 20% of the voters. You, Obama, and liberal politicians have awakened a sleeping giant. Conservatives now know their voice makes a difference, and we may have been silent in the past, but we will never be silent again. Also, I might add, there was such an outcry of vote “NO” on his spending bill that 9 democrat senators also threatened to vote against the bill. So, Reid had no choice but to shelf it.

WR, don’t try to play your mind games with me, you know exactly what I was saying.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 17, 2010 5:10 PM
Comment #315437

Con I agree us guys on the left are outnumbered 2.5 to 1 but the real problem is what you guys on the right believe. Which is just about anything. Here is the 2010”lie of the year” according to Politifact. I wonder how many on this site believe this republican message to be true?

http://politifact.com/

Posted by: j2t2 at December 17, 2010 8:47 PM
Comment #315440

j2t2,

It doesn’t make any difference how many on the right believe it to be true. They will each in turn swear it, so that eventually America believes it to be true. That is the insidious nature of the synchronized lie (a Rovian technique).

Posted by: Marysdude at December 17, 2010 10:39 PM
Comment #315441

j2t2 and MD,

It doesn’t matter what conservatives believe about obamacare; it is finished. It will be overturned by the SP and in the meantime it will be defunded by the congress. Starting with the $1 billion that was in the omnibus spending bill. Obamacare is nothing more than an out-of-date talking point used by the left. And by the way, IMO you are outnumbered by about 4 to 1.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 17, 2010 11:02 PM
Comment #315451

Being outnumbered by zombie locksteppers is not as important as having the best ideas for America on the front burner, and in that we on the left have it over those on the right hands down.

You are right about one thing you say, “It doesn’t matter what conservatives believe…”.

What conservatives believe and what they say are sometimes miles apart. Conservatives are not stupid, their problem is their willingness to give up America in their lust for power.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 18, 2010 6:58 AM
Comment #315455

“It doesn’t matter what conservatives believe about obamacare; it is finished.”

Con, do you realize it is this kind of thinking that makes conservatives no different than the Germans who were suckered into believing Hitler in the ‘30’s. The willingness to accept lies as truth does your movement no good in the long run.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010 9:31 AM
Comment #315456

“Reaganomics 2.0 in the Driver’s Seat”
A Commentary By Lawrence Kudlow
Saturday, December 18, 2010

“On a historic night this past Thursday, a new Tea Party Republican Congress completely transformed U.S. economic policy. Elections matter, and so do their ideas. Smaller government, low taxes, and less spending were key election themes in the Republican landslide. And those themes triumphed this week as a large tax-cut bill finally passed the House and a monstrosity of a spending bill was defeated in the Senate.

In one fell swoop, Obamanomics is out the window. Reaganomics 2.0 is now in the driver’s seat.”

Let me show you some recent polls:

1. •Fewer Voters Than Ever Say Obama Thinks Society is Fair and Decent

2. •Support for Health Care Repeal Hits Highest Point Since September

3. • 41% Now Say Global Warming is Caused By Human Activity, More Say Planetary Trends

4. •Most Americans Balk at Federal Control of Public School Nutrition

5. •Voters Trust GOP More on Seven of 10 Key Issues

6. •Generic Congressional Ballot: Republicans 45%, Democrats 39%

I believe there is a trend here, and I believe MD lives in fantacy land to believe 20% of liberal voters are smarter than 80% of conservatives and moderates. Arrogance…


Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 9:37 AM
Comment #315457

j2t2, this is a stupid statement and is nothing more than a liberal talking point. You might be more concerned about your own leadership. Ours is listening to us and yours has left you and your ideas high and dry. I don’t guess you on the left are very happy with Obama’s latest “hope and change”, are you? I guess obama does listen to the polls, after all.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 9:54 AM
Comment #315458

Since conservativethinker ( talk about your oxymoron ) promises us that the phone lines and email system was tied up by tea baggers, well ok then, s/he did promise us. So that has to be true.

Posted by: Ray at December 18, 2010 10:40 AM
Comment #315459
WR, don’t try to play your mind games with me, you know exactly what I was saying.

The recent compromise adds nearly a trillion dollars to our debt. You stated that you considered this to be “bringing conservative sanity to America”. Either the TP supports larger deficits or they don’t support the compromise bill; you can’t have it both ways.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 18, 2010 11:13 AM
Comment #315460

Con,

Numbers ain’t smart. Numbers create lynch mobs. Numbers create riots. Numbers create genocide. Numbers…numbers…numbers…Just the way you talk let’s us know who uses intelligence and who uses bullying.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 18, 2010 11:15 AM
Comment #315464

Warped Reality, would it have been better if I said that all voters want to bring sanity back to America? We may not agree on a lot of things, but even the left has to admit the nation is on the verge of insanity when it comes to spending. We are a broke nation, we are selling our debt to China and other foreign nations. The dollar is dropping and we are headed for the same unrest as Europe. You ask, “So the Tea Party supports larger deficits and adding to our debt?” No, we certainly don’t; but the left, of all people, should understand what by-partisanship is; considering you have blamed Republicans for 2 years of not having any. This tax cut was something that was needed, and in order to get it, people on both sides had to compromise. It was the influence of the Tea Party that changed the minds of 9 Republican Senators and many Democrats to vote against the 1.2 trillion dollar spending bill. The American people wanted the Bush tax cuts extended and Democrat politicians knew this, or they wouldn’t have voted FOR it. You tell me why Obama and the Democrats supported this tax extension? So this tax cut extension WAS truly by-partisan. You say, “Either the TP supports larger deficits or they don’t support the compromise bill; you can’t have it both ways.” Who says they can’t? YOU, who are you to tell a conservative what they can or can’t think? The Tea Party supports getting things under control, but the Tea Party is not a political party at all. It is a loosely organized group of people who want fiscal sanity restored to America. It is made up of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. Some supported the tax cuts and some didn’t, so what?

MD and j2t2, what is your problem? Why are you obsessed with Nazism, lynch mobs, riots, genocide, and I guess civil unrest in general? Could you give me an example of any of these things? You both talk silly. You sound like adolescents. We can go back a couple of years and look at some of the events that have taken place in America and I can assure you, there was more violence from the left, than there ever was from the right. Perhaps you are suggesting there will be riots and civil unrest from the left, because you are not getting your way? Is this what you mean? How can you sanely say this when your side only controls 20% of the voting bloc? You talk about numbers as if it doesn’t mean anything, but it was voting numbers who gained the Republicans 63 seats in the House and 6 or 7 in the Senate. It was numbers who caused the Republicans to pick up 9 Governors’ seats. My suggestion to you is quit with the name calling and try to say something intelligent.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 2:04 PM
Comment #315465

“this is a stupid statement and is nothing more than a liberal talking point.”

Coming from someone that believes it is acceptable to believe and spread the biggest political lie of the year I wouldn’t expect anything more than “it’s a stupid statement” Con, but when you and other movement members want to stand by their principles and values how do you expect anyone to believe you when you show us lying is a conservative value. You make a mockery of the principle of personnel responsibility with your acceptance and approval of known lies.

When the ends justify the means, atrocities such as what the Germans allowed and perpetrated in the ‘30’s and 40’s are acceptable, and when you abandon values such as truth for political gain you lose as much as you gain in the longer term.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010 2:14 PM
Comment #315466


Conservativethinker, since 1992, there have been nine election cycles. This is the third of those cycles in which the majority have identified themselves as conservative.

“Either the TP supports large deficits or they don’t support the compromise bill; you can’t have it both ways.”

I think the TP members and the Republican Party are fully capable of rationalizing that one.

Posted by: jlw at December 18, 2010 2:24 PM
Comment #315467

Con where do you get this stuff from, “Nazism, lynch mobs, riots, genocide, and I guess civil unrest in general”? I don’t see it in the comments above so I can only assume it is a diversion or a delusion on your part. I am going to write real slow, so please read this slowly so you can grasp this concept-

1. Faux news viewers receive more misinformation than any other news viewer.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/671.php?nid=&id=&pnt=671&lb=

2. You knowingly perpetrate falsehoods to further your cause as we have seen in the comments on this thread

3. The conservative movement uses propaganda and falsehoods extensively to induce it’s followers to believe in the cause of conservatism. In addition the movement singles out and crucifies those they deem to be prominent enemies of the movement.

4. The tea party is largely funded by conservative movement leaders and is made up of primarily conservatives

Now bearing that in mind when we compare the similarities between the movement followers of conservatism and those that followed the NSP and Hitler back in the ‘20’s and ‘30’s we see startling similarities. Good people lead astray by bad people. Further when we compare the actions of conservative movement leaders with the leaders of the NSP we can also see many of the same tactics and strategies being used. It is not a leap of logic to see where and what this kind of blind following can lead to.

So to sum up for you I am not obsessed with the items you mention, however I do see a serious trend in this Country that needs to be addressed.

You guys on the far right seem to see a conspiracy every time a leftie talks or moves yet you seem to be in denial when confronted on outright lies by movement leaders. Why is that?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010 2:49 PM
Comment #315469

j2t2, the stupid statement is constantly bringing up and comparing conservative votes to Nazism. It is talking points of the left with no proof.

jlw said, “Conservativethinker, since 1992, there have been nine election cycles. This is the third of those cycles in which the majority have identified themselves as conservative.

“Either the TP supports large deficits or they don’t support the compromise bill; you can’t have it both ways.”

I think the TP members and the Republican Party are fully capable of rationalizing that one.”

The difference between these election cycles and the latest cycle is the Tea Party. At the inception of the Tea Party, it was looked at as no threat to anyone, with no possibility of influencing an election. But since then, it has been shown to actually represent a group of Americans, and therefore a threat to both the Republican and Democratic Party. Let me say again, the Tea Party is not a political party. It is made up of social and or physical conservatives of all political persuasions. Do they all agree on all things? Certainly not. The reason you guys on the left mock and make fun of Tea Party members is because you fear our influence. You’re like a bunch of mean kids (bullies) who result to name calling because you do not understand or agree with conservative thought. The Tea Party is here to stay. It will never become a political party, but it is determined to reform the Republican Party and if successful, the Republican Party will once again gain Democrats and Independents. The American voter is moving toward conservatism, because the alternative is socialism.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 3:08 PM
Comment #315471

TeaPublicans have identity issues.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 18, 2010 3:34 PM
Comment #315476

Conservativethinker wrote; “The American voter is moving toward conservatism, because the alternative is socialism.”

May I amend your sentence by adding…socialism and bankruptcy?

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 18, 2010 5:06 PM
Comment #315477

J2t2 said,

“Con where do you get this stuff from, “Nazism, lynch mobs, riots, genocide, and I guess civil unrest in general”? I don’t see it in the comments above so I can only assume it is a diversion or a delusion on your part.”

Well, let’s see j2t2, did you make this next statement:

“Con, do you realize it is this kind of thinking that makes conservatives no different than the Germans who were suckered into believing Hitler in the ‘30’s. The willingness to accept lies as truth does your movement no good in the long run.”
Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010 09:31 AM

And did Marysdude make this statement:

“Con,
Numbers ain’t smart. Numbers create lynch mobs. Numbers create riots. Numbers create genocide. Numbers…numbers…numbers…Just the way you talk let’s us know who uses intelligence and who uses bullying.”
Posted by: Marysdude at December 18, 2010 11:15 AM

Perhaps you could explain to me what these things mean? Want to go back in the archives and see how many time conservatives have been compared to Nazis?

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 5:10 PM
Comment #315478

You’re correct Royal.

MD, we have no problem identifying ourselves. But I do believe the Democratic Party is having problems identifying themselves. Why wasn’t Reid and Pelosi (with that S**t eating grin on her face) standing behind Obama when he signed the tax cut extension bill?

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 5:44 PM
Comment #315481

Con,

Stupid question. She wasn’t there because she did not believe it was the right thing to do. I would not have been there either. If you post this crap in order to boast, it does not impress me.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 18, 2010 5:59 PM
Comment #315483

MD, so what you are saying is there is a great divide between obama and the underlings? Who has the identity problem? But, whose boasting???

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 6:09 PM
Comment #315488

Ahh Con so I have went from being obsessed with Nazism to compare conservative votes to Nazism. Well your getting closer to the reality of it any way. This writing slower thing must work so..

“Perhaps you could explain to me what these things mean?”

I did not compare conservative votes to anything let alone to Nazism. I did compare conservatives to people in Germany who fell for the NSP and Hitler back in the ‘20’s and ‘30’s. Hopefully you can see the difference. I did compare conservative movement leaders tactics and strategy to the tactics and strategy used by the NSP and Hitler. I did not say conservative movement leaders were Nazi’s, I did say they use similar techniques to keep their followers believing the lies they perpetrate. I did not say they perpetrated the same lies.

“Want to go back in the archives and see how many time conservatives have been compared to Nazis?”

Yep because if it is proof you want and it is my comments in the archives then you will see the propaganda techniques that earned the comparison.

“Let me say again, the Tea Party is not a political party. It is made up of social and or physical conservatives of all political persuasions.”

I assume you mean “fiscal conservatives”. It is called a party and has candidates for office. It’s agenda is political but it is not a political party? What kind of party is it if not a political party? Seriously… I agree it is just the extreme right wing of the repub party.

” Do they all agree on all things? Certainly not.”
Which political party does? Even the repubs get out of lockstep once and a awhile.

” The reason you guys on the left mock and make fun of Tea Party members is because you fear our influence.”

Not me,Con. I disagree with them. I call them tea baggers because I have little respect for them and their hatred of moderates and those on the left. They call many names and repeat many lies. Had then been around when Reagan or Bush were doubling the debt perhaps they would have had some bonafides and would have earned a little respect but to show up after we have elected our first bi-racial president, a dem, and then start with the debt and taxes and all the other nonsense leaves me to believe they are just a bunch of tax protesting Hatriots who want to destroy the government and our Country.

” You’re like a bunch of mean kids (bullies) who result to name calling because you do not understand or agree with conservative thought.”

Coming from you Con that is special. You guys on the far right are all the same you insult and demean then when the slur is returned you claim a bully is picking on you. Once again-

Let ye without sin…

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200904150038

when the far rights starts showing some manners and respect they will get some in return until them quit complaining and police your own.

“The Tea Party is here to stay. It will never become a political party, but it is determined to reform the Republican Party and if successful, the Republican Party will once again gain Democrats and Independents.”

Hopefully the tea party is here to stay but comes out from behind the repubs skirts and becomes a real party. Why not, we need two or three more parties in this country.

” The American voter is moving toward conservatism, because the alternative is socialism.”

Blind in one eye and can’t see out of the other. there is quite a bit of space between the conservatism of today and socialism, to bad you guys are so brainwashed that you cannot tell the difference.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010 8:00 PM
Comment #315489

There’s an article in The Nation about Glenn Beck. He’s so right on in his logic it’s almost too scary in the way he proves Obama is a socialist. I was lucky enough to have recieved the same instruction.
A dog has two ears, fur, walks on four legs and has a tail. A cat has two ears, fur, walks on four legs and has a tail.
Therefore there is no doubt that a dog is a cat and a cat is a dog. This is the “intellectual” way of thinking for too many Americans in this day and age. Get used to it.

Posted by: Stephen Hines at December 18, 2010 8:02 PM
Comment #315491

Stephen sounds like conservative intellectual logic to me.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010 8:19 PM
Comment #315493

“WASHINGTON—Even as President Barack Obama signed a broad, bipartisan tax law, battle lines were being drawn over spending cuts and Mr. Obama’s health-care law, setting up the likely first big fights in the new Congress.

Senate Republicans, facing an uproar from tea-party activists, rose up late Thursday to scuttle a $1.1 trillion spending bill, turning their backs on billions of dollars in projects that they had championed.

In the process, they showed the power fiscally conservative activists now hold over even the most seasoned lawmakers.

The death of the spending bill was a setback for the White House, coming just as the president was celebrating his victory in forging the tax package with Republican lawmakers. Mr. Obama has spoken out against the spending known as “earmarks”—specific projects inserted by lawmakers for their states and districts—which have also irked the tea party. But he also had $1 billion in the bill to begin implementing his health-care law.

“By approving this bill, we would have helped cement for another year massive increases in spending and helped pave the way for a health-care bill most Americans are asking us to repeal,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said on the Senate floor Friday.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704034804576025590253929526.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

Posted by: David Oetting at December 18, 2010 8:48 PM
Comment #315494

To all southpaws
If you are going to continue to use that nazi crap in relation to conservatives, then I will take my liberty to use Joe Stalin and Mao to equate the left to them. Consider that a done deal.

Posted by: Larry at December 18, 2010 9:02 PM
Comment #315498

>If you are going to continue to use that nazi crap in relation to conservatives, then I will take my liberty to use Joe Stalin and Mao to equate the left to them. Consider that a done deal.
Posted by: Larry at December 18, 2010 09:02 PM

Larry,

Silly comment.

Conservatives have been using those names, along with Marx, Lenin and worse for quite a while. Most reference by liberals to Nazis are to compare methodology, not direct reference to people here, but not so on the right. I’ve been called treasonous and a traitor for being against the Iraq Stupidity, even though I spent twenty years in the Marine Corps. I’ve been labeled a Socialist and a Commie and a Maoist, etc. I merely consider the unthinking source and go on with my day.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 18, 2010 10:50 PM
Comment #315499

>MD, so what you are saying is there is a great divide between obama and the underlings? Who has the identity problem? But, whose boasting???
Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 18, 2010 06:09 PM

Con,

Again you speak without thought.

The Democratic party has not been cohesive for over a hundred years. We are a diverse group, we reside under the big tent, and we are independent thinkers. Unlike the Brown Shirt like activities of the right where one mis-step makes you a castaway, we see things more on a personal freedom level.

As to boasting. All I hear from you is numbers. You forget that President Obama had the numbers not long ago, i.e., he won an election with a plurality of the electorate rooting for him. His later numbers count a great number of legislative initiatives being passed in his favor. He loses points with us more ‘progressive’ bunch on the left, but we still admire him and what he is doing. The difference between you and me is that I can disagree with my President on some issues and still remain in his corner. You, on the other hand, seem to think that if you don’t go along with the party mumbo-jumbo, your arms will fall off or something.

A little independent thought once in a while is cathartic…you should try it sometime.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 18, 2010 11:01 PM
Comment #315503

Larry Nice authoritarian threat. Why not try a little respect first? Why not police your own first? Why not read what was actually written? No one called conservative’s Nazi’s. No one called Conservatism Nazism. What is so hard to comprehend here? Now before you go any farther look at the title of this thread, “The Republican message”. That is the subject we are discussing.

Cannot you two tell the difference between what I have said and what you are accusing me of saying. Or do the parallels between the people of Germany in the 30’s seem a little to close to home for you? I am saying that conservative followers are the victims of propagandist and propaganda techniques just like many of the German people were in the days before WWII. The message many conservatives hear or see is tainted by the movement leaders and their propagandist. That does not make you Nazi’s, is that clear enough. It makes you a victim of propaganda similar to what the Nazi’s used to influence the people of Germany. But you are a victim only if you do not or cannot see how this misinformation is affecting you.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/beck-progressive-nazi

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x485639

http://conservativewatchnews.com/2010/12/02/reason-tv-the-power-of-nazi-propaganda/

I mean my god guys, look at the issue of lying about the health care reform bill mentioned in the comments above. You are willing to accept outright lies to base your decisions on but your in a tizzy about perceived Nazi comparisons. Where are your values, your morals have you really sank so low that this is acceptable?

Anyway if this is beyond you guys then fire away Larry. Give it your best shot. Respect and policing your own is probably a bit to much to ask for isn’t it?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010 11:46 PM
Comment #315528

there is quite a bit of space between the conservatism of today and socialism….

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2010

True…today, yesterday, and tomorrow. I do find it amusing that some believe conservatives are brainwashed and merely following some leader or another. That doesn’t fit very well with the Tea Party who rejected a number of the party candidates.

Sometimes we all must vote for someone who doesn’t espouse our views exactly as we would like. I disliked voting for McCain and Bob Dole but when weighing the alternatives I could do nothing else.

I have been voting for over 50 years and don’t ever recall voting for someone with whom I agreed 100%. But vote I must.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 19, 2010 1:04 PM
Comment #315529

I rarely read any post from Remer or Daugherty anymore. I wonder if they are off vacationing together.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 19, 2010 1:06 PM
Comment #315532

RF,

Even Stephen’s patience wears thin on occasion. I get away sometimes myself, because the hate just wears me out. I can stand just so much spittle running down Neanderthal chins, and then I have to take a break.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 19, 2010 1:43 PM
Comment #315534

Thanks for the love pat dude. Merry Christmas.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 19, 2010 2:13 PM
Comment #315535

marysdude writes; “I get away sometimes myself, because the hate just wears me out.”

How do you get away from yourself dude?

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 19, 2010 2:34 PM
Comment #315536

Royal brainwashed? I really haven’t said that have I? I have said, and I do believe that many conservatives are blind to facts and very sucseptible to being lead by propagandist and propaganda.

Look at the 4 conservative members of the Financial Inquiry Commission, which is the subject of Paul’s article. Deliberately leaving out words and phrases that have a direct relation to the results of the commission they served on. Then releasing the report approved by only them, not the rest of the commission. The report has become propaganda and yet their is no uproar from the Tea Party nor prominent conservatives denouncing such activities.

Look at the biggest political lie of 2010. This was deemed to be acceptable by Con. Why? Because the ends justify the means? People believe this propaganda and then support the propagandist when they are called out on the subject. This is just the tip of the iceberg here, but enough to at least warrant further discussion.

We have had previous threads that gave light to Beck’s consistent misinformation and his attacking those that oppose him with half truths and outright lies.

Look at the results from the University of Maryland study proving Faux news watchers to be the most misinformed. That doesn’t happen by accident, that is intentional and continual use of propaganda by Murdoch and his propagandist at Faux. The list just goes on. Yet conservatives deny this or claim it to be the work of liberals and therefore lies. Why because Limbaugh, Beck and the others tell them this.

Some of the conservatives on this site have proved the lack of skills necessary to make rational decisions despite the evidence. Many of the comments in this thread being a good example. I don’t think it is brain washing though but it is excellent use of the propaganda techniques, as I have stated. I bring up the German people of the ‘30’s as an example of what can happen to good people led astray by political movement leaders using propaganda to induce mass delusions.

Now I haven’t ruled out the possibility of some cult like brainwashing by conservative movement leaders but do not have any proof at hand of that. What info do you have on the subject?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 19, 2010 2:56 PM
Comment #315540

RF,

You’ll notice that I kept it impersonal by saying THE hate just wears me out. I did not say YOUR hate jsut wears me out. Yet your response is, “How do you get away from yourself dude?” I take that as very personal in nature. That may be just the type of thing that takes DRR and Stephen away sometimes. I cannot speak FOR them, but since I feel the same impulse now and again, perhaps that is why they are away.

Posted by: Marysdude at December 19, 2010 3:41 PM
Comment #315556

CT,

You ask, “So the Tea Party supports larger deficits and adding to our debt?” No, we certainly don’t;

except when it comes to the Bush Tax cuts? Then sanity goes out the window, right?

Just because the Democrats aren’t behaving the way the GOP has behaved over the last 2 years doesn’t give the Republicans any excuses. During the election season, I was told by the GOP that this time was going different; they were going to break with the conservative principles of borrow and spend and adopt a libertarian ideology regarding government’s role in society. I was skeptical and didn’t buy what they were selling so I voted for a 3rd party. This tax cut deal is only the first sign that I was right; the GOP is insincere about cutting the government’s deficit and are only worried about redistributing the wealth to their supporters. I’m sorry to tell you, but that won’t work; socialism of that variety is not compatible with a sustainable future. Sooner or later we are going to deplete the credit of our children and grandchildren and we’ll have a serious day of reckoning with our Asian creditors. Look at what’s going on in Europe right now for a taste of what that reckoning might look like.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 19, 2010 4:47 PM
Comment #315559

marysdude writes; “You’ll notice that I kept it impersonal by saying THE hate just wears me out.”

OH, pardon me…I thought you meant your hate writing was wearing you out.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 19, 2010 5:10 PM
Comment #315560

I just found out where Mr’s Remer and Daugherty are. They and the other member of VOID are having a meeting in Aruba.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 19, 2010 5:13 PM
Comment #315567

RF, hilarious, lol.

WR;

“During the election season, I was told by the GOP that this time was going different; they were going to break with the conservative principles of borrow and spend and adopt a libertarian ideology regarding government’s role in society. I was skeptical and didn’t buy what they were selling so I voted for a 3rd party. This tax cut deal is only the first sign that I was right; the GOP is insincere about cutting the government’s deficit and are only worried about redistributing the wealth to their supporters. I’m sorry to tell you, but that won’t work; socialism of that variety is not compatible with a sustainable future. Sooner or later we are going to deplete the credit of our children and grandchildren and we’ll have a serious day of reckoning with our Asian creditors. Look at what’s going on in Europe right now for a taste of what that reckoning might look like.”

WR, I’m not sure what has happened to you; you used to be a nice kid, but you’re beginning to sound like the rest of these “hate minded” liberals. Your premise is wrong:

1. “conservative principles of borrow and spend”, sorry WR we do not hold to those principles.
2. “This tax cut deal is only the first sign that I was right”; tell me WR, what exactly would you have done? How would you have handled the ax extension any different than your president and your democrat majority?
3. “the GOP is insincere about cutting the government’s deficit and are only worried about redistributing the wealth to their supporters.”; how can you make a statement like that when every bailout and stimulus Obama and the dems have passed in the past 2 years was used to bail out his supporters?
4. “I’m sorry to tell you, but that won’t work; socialism of that variety is not compatible with a sustainable future.”; it will take years to correct the socialist policies obama and the dems have instituted, if ever.
5. “Sooner or later we are going to deplete the credit of our children and grandchildren and we’ll have a serious day of reckoning with our Asian creditors.”; This is coming from the party that uses the fed to print more money, and puts billions of fed notes on the market. You need to get off WB once in a while and watch the news; the Tea Party was jus responsible for forcing RINO’s to vote against a 1.2 trillion dollar budget, of which 10% was for pork. Since when has a democrat ever been worried about the debt or deficit?
Liberal democrats have never seen a tax they did not like or a government run program they did not support. And you have the audacity to talk about depleting the credit of our children? Tell you what big boy, when you get out of school and actually join the work force and work 50 or 60 hours a week and watch the feds, state, and city governments rob you of what you worked for and give it to some low life who won’t work, or take your money and pay for some illegal to go to college, then come back on here and talk about what we believe or what we do. You have absolutely NO life experience, you have never created a job, you have never paid your way, and you have never contributed anything to America. Have you ever served in the military, or paid taxes for 50 years? I dare say no. Perhaps you have started a business, and perhaps you have put your sweat and blood into making a payroll and paying employees? Do you have 60 years of watching politicians play their games? No, no, and no. Yet you come on here and pretend to know something about life. How many kids do you have? Do you worry about feeding them and a wife? Do you worry about making the house payment? Again, no, no, and no.

No to all of these things; but I bet you do know about the injustices of society, of the corruption of CEO’s and big business, of the “rich” people who owe the world, of the corruption of America for using all the world’s resources, and of the rights of illegal’s. Because that is what our educational institutions do; they fill little empty heads with mush. And when the little mush heads become big mush heads, they talk like MD, SD, DRR, and PS. God help our nation, if you guys are the future…

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 19, 2010 9:37 PM
Comment #315578

“And you have the audacity to talk about depleting the credit of our children?”

It’s not audacity Con it is intelligence. I don’t expect you are capable of recognizing intelligence though.

” Tell you what big boy, when you get out of school and actually join the work force and work 50 or 60 hours a week and watch the feds, state, and city governments rob you of what you worked for and give it to some low life who won’t work, or take your money and pay for some illegal to go to college, then come back on here and talk about what we believe or what we do.”

50 or 60 hours you slacker, why brag about a part time job. I did that and more for many years , but like I am want to say , so what I chose to do that. But that doesn’t mean I have to brag about it as if it made me a better person than a young man who hasn’t.
No one stole anything from you Con, it is you delusional ignorance that allows you to accept this crap as fact. The constitution allows for taxation by our duly elected representatives, get over it. You talk as if your taxes didn’t support the local police, as well as the military.
The fact is Warped does not have to silence himself, you pompous ass, just because he is younger than you. He doesn’t have to give up inalienable rights to people like you just because you have been on the planet longer. He has his voice and he has the right to use it, you ignorant authoritarian and to criticize him for doing so demeans you not him.

” You have absolutely NO life experience, you have never created a job, you have never paid your way, and you have never contributed anything to America. Have you ever served in the military, or paid taxes for 50 years? I dare say no.”

So what he has also never been part of the boomer generation . The generation that had it made because our parents and our grandparents sacrificed so much. We had the GI Bill and the unprecedented boom from the victory of WWII. What did we leave the next generation? Warped’s generation. Nothing we borrowed from them to feed our own greed and bloated self image you braying jackass. We left them owing billions because of ignorant people just like you. The greedy self indulgent who think they created a job for someone else so they are to special to pay their fair share in one of the richest and best places to live in the world. To hear you whiny ass conservatives you would think the boomer generation had it hard, well we didn’t so stop acting like you are some how superior for it.

” Perhaps you have started a business, and perhaps you have put your sweat and blood into making a payroll and paying employees? Do you have 60 years of watching politicians play their games? No, no, and no.”

So what? You poor boy you suffered politicians playing their game. Welcome to the real world with real problems that need to be worked out. You sound like a failed business owner who blames the government for your lack of ability. The same government that protected you and built the infrastructure you needed to do your thing. If you think for one second that because you have watched politicians for 60 years you are somehow better than Warped then you are nothing more than an arrogant ass. Get over yourself. You and your generation dropped the ball Con. You had the world by the short hairs when you started out and when you were done you left Warped’s generation in debt, with low wages and voodoo economics. Good job. Now hang your head.

” Yet you come on here and pretend to know something about life. How many kids do you have? Do you worry about feeding them and a wife? Do you worry about making the house payment? Again, no, no, and no.”

No but he does have to worry about paying off college loans, which we didn’t have to do thanks to our parents generation. Then on top of it he will have these same issues.

“No to all of these things; but I bet you do know about the injustices of society, of the corruption of CEO’s and big business, of the “rich” people who owe the world, of the corruption of America for using all the world’s resources, and of the rights of illegal’s. Because that is what our educational institutions do; they fill little empty heads with mush. And when the little mush heads become big mush heads, they talk like MD, SD, DRR, and PS. God help our nation, if you guys are the future…”

Con you are without a doubt lost in your own delusions. Your conservative buddies are 50% of the voters, you said so yourself. Why are we in such sad shape if you … oh are you starting to see the problem yet?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 20, 2010 12:43 AM
Comment #315580

j2t2:

Well said.

Posted by: womanmarine at December 20, 2010 5:09 AM
Comment #315581

j2t2, thank you for answering for WR. I guess he needs a “grown up” to answer for him.

“Your conservative buddies are 50% of the voters, you said so yourself. Why are we in such sad shape if you … oh are you starting to see the problem yet?”

I am starting to see a shift in America from liberal socialist ideas to conservatism. I remember when registered democrats outnumbered republicans, and it wasn’t too long ago. Registered voter stats in 2008:

“In 5,566 interviews with registered voters conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press during the first two months of 2008, 36% identify themselves as Democrats, and just 27% as Republicans

The Democratic Party has also built a substantial edge among independent voters. Of the 37% who claim no party identification, 15% lean Democratic, 10% lean Republican, and 12% have no leaning either way.”

If we jump ahead to 2010:

“The March 22-28 results were obtained after the U.S. House’s passage of landmark healthcare reform legislation on March 21. The shift toward Republicans raises the possibility that the healthcare bill had a slightly negative impact on the Democrats’ political fortunes in the short run.
A separate USA Today/Gallup poll conducted March 26-28 showed a similar result, with Republicans ahead by 46% to 45%.
These results suggest the Republicans would have a strong showing if the midterm elections were held today. Since Republicans usually vote at higher rates than Democrats, the Republicans’ edge in voter preferences would likely exceed what the registered voter results indicate.”

And guess what, democrats lost the elections. Also, we might add, it was independents that shifted the vote to republicans in the recent eletions.

I guess I should have added j2t2 to the list of bad influence upon WR.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 20, 2010 7:12 AM
Comment #315583


“thank you for answering for WR. I guess he needs a “grown up” to answer for him.”

I didn’t answer for Warped, Con, I answered for me. Grown up is probably a stretch, grown old is probably more precise. I think we have already determined that Warped was smarter than me, you, Bill, Beretta, Larry and Tom. I think this thread has served to reinforce that.

BTW I apologize for the excessive name calling, I could have made my point without a few of the descriptions. Sorry.

Con of course the health care bill soured voters from both parties as well as independents, the bill was a compromise that didn’t do enough to cut health care costs. Every one lost when the dems negotiated for both sides in an attempt to gain bipartisanship.

The swing in voters to the party not in power is probably a good thing Con, as there isn’t a nickels difference between the two parties when the dark overlords with the money pull their strings. But remember it is the repubs turn to shine, they now have to do something, let’s see how that works out come next election. Seems the American voter has a memory shorter than their attention span. But don’t think that because the repubs were voted in that the American people like them any better. It was the only other choice we really had.

The dems lost because they deserved to lose. Hopefully they have now found their collective backbone and will stand up to the moneyed elite.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 20, 2010 9:49 AM
Comment #315586

CT,

I’m not going to contest that my youth makes me a little naive, but I’m here to learn. Unlike you, I’m going to be on this planet for many decades to come, so I think I have more at stake when discussing the long term ramifications of borrow-and-spend conservatism. You claim that conservatives don’t preach borrow-and-spend, however in practice borrow-and-spend is all conservatives have done. If conservatives actually were serious about cutting spending, I’d be enormously happy; there are plenty of wasteful government programs out there to cut. Unfortunately, the GOP is supported by many beneficiaries of those programs so the GOP is unwilling to make the necessary cuts.

Look at the shelved FY2011 omnibus budget, GOP senators added billions in their own pork, but then did not have the courage to take responsibility for their actions. If they were truly serious they’d come up with an alternative budget that cut spending. At least Boehner will be speaker next year, so the Republicans won’t be able to just vote “NO”, but will need to actually come up with ideas.

Although I haven’t worked full-time yet, I have worked during my summer breaks for the past 5 years and I have paid taxes on the money I earned. Surely, I have a right to voice my opinion on where my tax money goes? Also, I’ll probably be working and paying taxes long after you’re dead and my cohort and I will be cleaning up the Baby Boomer’s mess for decades. I’m also curious, what were you doing when you were 21? How many jobs had you created by then? I’ve worked hard to do well as I have in my studies; I earned a full tuition scholarship at my university (sorry j2t2, but I have no loans). I have no regrets regarding my decision not to enter the workforce right away, I’ll be a far more productive worker if I continue my studies and graduate with a degree.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 20, 2010 1:13 PM
Comment #315588

J2t2,

“I didn’t answer for Warped, Con, I answered for me.”

Actually, you did answer for WR because my comments were directed at WR.

The difference between the two of us is I believe the American people, by a majority of 60-70%, totally reject obamacare. You believe it is because it didn’t go far enough and the American voters were too stupid to understand it. I believe the American voter knew exactly what the bill meant, and didn’t want any part of it. And the polls support that, but that doesn’t matter because the left don’t believe the polls, unless they support liberal policies.

WR,
1. First, where was I at 21 years old: I was married with one child; I had been, at this point in my life, in the US military for 2 years. I was thousands of miles away from my family and worrying about them, but also knowing I could do nothing if they needed me. It was a time when I didn’t have a choice. Like the generation before me, I was told by Uncle Sam what to do.

2. This discussion is not about conservatives spending. I know that Republicans, just as Democrats practice borrow and spend. Conservatives can be republican, democrat, or independent. Conservatives don’t like tax and spend. You guys are having a real problem understanding what the Tea Party and conservatives have in common.

3. “If conservatives actually were serious about cutting spending, I’d be enormously happy; there are plenty of wasteful government programs out there to cut. Unfortunately, the GOP is supported by many beneficiaries of those programs so the GOP is unwilling to make the necessary cuts.”

Conservatives are serious about cutting programs and since you are concerned and worry about the debt you are inheriting, perhaps you will support changes in SS? Do you honestly believe you will ever draw SS? Yes, you are correct; many on BOTH sides of the isle are supported by beneficiaries of ALL programs. Do you believe the unions have benefited from supporting Obama and the dems? So, don’t try to play the liberal game of blaming only the GOP.

4. “Look at the shelved FY2011 omnibus budget, GOP senators added billions in their own pork, but then did not have the courage to take responsibility for their actions.”

Yes, let’s look at this bill; did GOP senators add pork, yes they did, and WHY did they vote against the pork laden bill? Again, you guys on the left aren’t listening. They voted against the bill because their phone lines and email was flooded with VOTE NO notices by the Tea Party conservatives. It had nothing to do with courage, but you see, you have fallen for the liberal talking points that all the senators wanted to do was make obama look bad. Let me tell you something, Obama is doing that job himself, without republican help.

Let me ask you a question and I want you to truthfully answer it. The lame duck congress is controlled by democrats. What do you think would happen if the minority (republicans) presented a spending bill of their own? First of all, there wasn’t any time to do it, and secondly, Reid would never have allowed it to come to the floor. Use the brain God gave you…and stop repeating liberal talking points.

If you watch liberals; they go from one critical talking point to another. When the powers that be bring up a talking point, the left is like parrots, repeating and repeating the same thing over and over. Examples: the economy is going to collapse if we don’t spend billions in stimulus; if we don’t pass obamacare, we will all die; if we don’t pass the budget the government will shut down; if we don’t pass START, the world will end; and on and on.. Notice the pattern?

WR, you are a novice and, as you say naïve and you certainly do not have enough experience to come to some of the conclusions you have come to. Unless you plan to become another useless politician, and ambulance chasing lawyer, or a government employee ( living off everyone else), I would suggest you keep an open mind and QUESTION, QUESTION, QUESTION…

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 20, 2010 3:05 PM
Comment #315596

CT,
Thank you for sharing your perspective with me. You certainly had to grow up faster than I did. I signed up for the selective service when I turned 18, but today’s government has decided to rely on volunteers to fight today’s conflicts. People will debate that decision for decades to come, so I don’t think it’s a good idea to open that can of worms. In any case, thank you for your service. I extremely fortunate to be able to enjoy the freedoms I have today because of the tough work you and others have done. One of my peers from High School was recently killed in Afghanistan and my hometown is covered in yellow ribbons. I have nowhere near as much bravery as any of the men and women who choose to serve.

since you are concerned and worry about the debt you are inheriting, perhaps you will support changes in SS? Do you honestly believe you will ever draw SS? Yes, you are correct; many on BOTH sides of the isle are supported by beneficiaries of ALL programs. Do you believe the unions have benefited from supporting Obama and the dems? So, don’t try to play the liberal game of blaming only the GOP.

You’ve got to be kidding me, of course I’m not seeing a dime of the money I give to SS ever again given our current trajectory. I turn 65 in 2054, 14 years after the trust fund is depleted. I already know that I will be on my own when it comes to saving funds for my retirement. Do I support changes to SS? Of course I do, but not privatization, which will only worsen the problem. How about raising the retirement age instead? The median life expectancy in 1935 was about 65, so half of the people didn’t live to see any benefits and those that did live received benefits for far fewer years. Social Security was not supposed to be a retirement program. It was supposed to be insurance against old age. People should plan and invest their own money in order to finance the first few decades or retirement. Only people who are extraordinarily long-lived should receive SS benefits.

Regarding the unions and Obama, well duh, Obama and the Democrats have benefited them handsomely, just look at the bailout for state budgets that was put into the stimulus bill.

Conservatives are serious about cutting programs
We’ll have to wait and see on this one. Speaker Boehner will present his budget plan in a couple months and we’ll tear it apart. However, I see no inclination that Boehner and the rest of the GOP will bring the liberalization we desperately need. Although offering an alternative budget during the lame duck congress would serve no practical benefits (Reid and the Democrats would never support it), it would offer proof to people like me that these “conservatives” are actually serious about reducing spending. Right now, I’m expecting more of the same baloney that conservatives offered during the Bush Era which is borrow-and-spend. At least the Democrats have the audacity to raise taxes to pay for some of their spending. Posted by: Warped Reality at December 20, 2010 4:27 PM
Comment #315626


Conservativethinker:

When conservatives place the Defence Department high on their spending cuts list, we will know that they may be serious about cutting the budget.

You are right about the conservatives in Congress, they didn’t have the will power to cut social spending and they are owned by the Military Industrial Complex and the multi-national corporations; as are many of the so called liberals. But, rather than go the route of tax and spend, they did something even worse, they cut taxes and spent like drunken sailors.

The Republicans with wholehearted support from Democrats put this country and many others in financial jeopardy at the behest of the big banks and the multinationals. The only reason this is not our worse financial disaster is because of the social programs that were not available the last time our economy was placed in this amount of jeopardy by financial shenanigans, primarily for greed. Without those programs, we wouldn’t be talking about the 20% that are liberal, we would be talking about the 40 or 50% that had suddenly become progressive.

The conservative talking point is that Obama is pushing a leftist agenda. That has to be the reason why Obama has been loosing the support of liberals, progressives and fiscally conservative/socially liberal independents. They are not mad at Obama for not getting a single payer health care plan through Congress. They are upset because he took it off the table, coerced the house to abandon it, without a fight. They are upset because he did not make it an issue that was placed front and center for the purpose of creating a debate on the issue in the general public rather than letting the conservatives, the corporations and Fox News to frame the issue. Capitulating to the reality of Washington while trying to appease supporters with anti-reality rhetoric only works well on some of those supporters.


Posted by: jlw at December 21, 2010 12:13 PM
Comment #315629

You guys on the left love to bash Fox News as much as you do blame the last two years on Bush, but I watch a wide variety of cable news shows and contrary to the left’s claims, Fox News ALWAYS have people from both sides of the isle giving their view points; which is more than other news programs do.

jlw, let me ask you the same question I asked WR. What would you do with SS and I don’t know your age, but do you plan to draw SS. WR does not believe he will ever draw a penny he has or will pay into it, but he doesn’t mind keeping it around. Off hand, I’m not sure of the percent of SS tax, but I believe it is about 7-7 1/2 % and matching funds from employer. But, if you are self employed, it is about 15%. 15% taken from your pay check plus fed, state, and city or local, is a lot of money taken from the worker.

I’m sure we could cut military spending in some places. I’m sure streamlining could be done. But here are no politicians on EITHER side who are willing to agree to manufacturers or bases being closed in their states or districts. So when it comes to cutting defense, we find our politicians trying to cut in critical areas and leaving non-critical areas alone.

If the left is upset now, about Obama’s failure to include a single payer government run HC system, they are going to come unglued when obamacare is repealed or shot down by the courts as illegal.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 21, 2010 3:01 PM
Comment #315639

I find it strange that some in the media have begun to call obama the “come-back kid”. What’s up with that?

What is obama coming back from? The dems have constantly bragged about the success of the obama, reid, pelosi triumverate. He has the health care bill, DADT, START (most likley), and more to his credit. He was instrumental in doing what the libs and dems like best…spend billions (trillions) of dollars on his supporters.

Granted, primarily because of obama, the mid-term elections handed him his ass but what’s with this “come-back” nonsense. I suspect it is merely an attempt to somehow lift the hearts of the dispirited dems by linking him to Clinton. My friends, he’s no Clinton. He’s qualified to serve at Clinton’s dinner party as Clinton himself once joked…but that’s about it.

obama hasn’t come-back from anything. He’s has become a loser with a majority of American voters. He will likely face a challenger or two for his office. He will begin to cooperate with the rep majority in the house out of desperation.

Rather than come-back kid I believe a better monicker might be…”spoiled over-rated brat”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2010 6:52 PM
Comment #315641

Royal, as I said to WR earlier, it is the latest of talking points of the left. One says it and they will all say the same. We will even be able to see the liberals on WB calling him the “comeback kid”, LOL

The Census reports have changed everything. And I might add the republican governors and state legislators who are now republican. The loss of many house seats in blue northern states and the gain of house seats in southern red states. It’s going to be interesting. With another election in 23 months and campaigning beginning next year, I wonder how many dems will be willing to vote against the repeal of obamacare.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 21, 2010 7:12 PM
Comment #315643

Yup…it does make one wonder. In addition, rep states are gaining house representatives…Texas alone is gaining four. Add in redistricting due to the census and I suspect many libs and dems are comtemplating climbing tall buildings for more than just the view.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2010 7:33 PM
Comment #315644

Most of those shifts in apportionment are due to Hispanic immigration. Texas will need to make at least one more minority-majority seat in the Dallas area and possibly another in South Texas.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 21, 2010 7:53 PM
Comment #315645

I understand Warped…look for the silver lining. I admire positive thinking.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2010 7:57 PM
Comment #315649

RF you have to remember where this people come from. My parents just relocated to texas and you can be sure they will not be voting repubican. so the more people that move south the more the vote start to swing the other way add in the fact that republicans are anti- latino add well you can see where this is going.

Posted by: Jeff at December 21, 2010 8:30 PM
Comment #315650

RF,
If you are interested, here’s a good discussion of the possible consequences of reapportionment from Nate Silver.

My home state of Massachusetts is losing a seat; because all 10 representatives are Democrats it’ll be quite a show as the Democratically controlled state government determines which one of their own brethren to eliminate. Stephen Lynch voted against the final version of PPACA and is pro-life so he has few friends on Beacon Hill, however there are two congresspeople with less seniority. There’s an outside chance someone will resign in order to challenge Scott Brown in 2012.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 21, 2010 8:31 PM
Comment #315654

Warped said,

“Most of those shifts in apportionment are due to Hispanic immigration. Texas will need to make at least one more minority-majority seat in the Dallas area and possibly another in South Texas.”

Okay, help me to understand this; Hispanics are migrating south to red states because they are sick and tired of the high taxes in the northern blue states, and they will be voting Democrat? This is why Republicans took more House seats, state houses, and governorships? And these states who are controlled by Republicans will redistrict so that Democrats can win? Okay, I got it…

You’re right Royal, there is always the silver lining.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 21, 2010 11:59 PM
Comment #315655

Here’s a good message:

“(Reuters) - The U.S. government fell deeper into the red in fiscal 2010 with net liabilities swelling more than $2 trillion as commitments on government debt and federal benefits rose, a U.S. Treasury report showed on Tuesday.

The Financial Report of the United States, which applies corporate-style accrual accounting methods to Washington, showed the government’s liabilities exceeded assets by $13.473 trillion. That compared with a $11.456 trillion gap a year earlier.

Unlike the normal measurement of government intake of receipts against cash outlays, accrual accounting measures costs such as interest on the debt and federal benefits payable when they are incurred, not when funds are actually disbursed.

The report was instituted under former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill, the first Treasury secretary in the George W. Bush administration, to illustrate the mounting liabilities of government entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

The government’s net operating cost, or deficit, in the report grew to $2.080 trillion for the year ended September 30 from $1.253 trillion the prior year as spending and liabilities increased for social programs. Actual and anticipated revenues were roughly unchanged.”

“SOCIAL PROGRAMS”

Posted by: Kathy at December 22, 2010 12:11 AM
Comment #315656

CT,

Okay, help me to understand this; Hispanics are migrating south to red states because they are sick and tired of the high taxes in the northern blue states, and they will be voting Democrat?

These people are immigrants (both legal and illegal) from Mexico and the rest of Latin America.

The GOP used to be pretty competitive in the Latino community. However, recent xenophobic rhetoric and opposition to certainpopular proposals have spoiled the relationship between the GOP and Latino voters.

And these states who are controlled by Republicans will redistrict so that Democrats can win? Okay, I got it…

The Constitution requires that all the districts in a state have equal population. In Texas, for example, the really conservative parts of the state (East Texas and the panhandle) have had stagnant or negative population growth; nearly all of Texas’ population growth has come near its urban areas as well as along the Mexican border. If the GOP state government created another Republican favored district and lumped an exorbitant number of Latinos into the the preexisting districts, then it would be unconstitutional and the Republicans would surely face a lawsuit. Also, the voting rights act mandates that certain areas (such as Texas) create minority-majority districts as a penalty for past abuses against minority voters. Tom Delay ran afoul of the Voting Rights Act when he tried to increase the number of Republicans in the Texas congressional delegation earlier this decade.

Please read the link to the Nate Silver piece in my earlier comment to educate yourself before you make another uninformed comment.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 22, 2010 12:34 AM
Comment #315657

Another good read for anyone interested in reapportionment.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 22, 2010 12:44 AM
Comment #315663

Warped Reality;

I was watching Fox and Friends this very morning and Bryan had a panel of 3 people discussing the redistricting. There were 2 liberals and 1 conservative. Both liberals began to hammer on the very exact points you have made about redistricting, including legal and illegal immigrants in Texas. Although Bryan tried to keep them on subject, they insisted on hammering on the “Dream” act and the failure of the Republicans to pass the bill. This proves my earlier point of liberals moving from one talking point to another. This will be a major issue for a while and every liberal in the country will be talking about it.

Since you were only 11 years old during the last Census and redistricting, I’m sure you are only relying on printed material to inform yourself of what really happens. Redistricting congressional districts and the problems thereof go back many decades. You want to bring up Tom Delay and Texas, but during the 1960’s and 1970’s the southern states were a patchwork of the most bizarre shaped congressional districts, thanks to the Democratic Party, who at that time controlled the south. These districts were based upon race. Democrats set up districts so that only white or black democrats could win the district.

“The Supreme Court’s 1993 decision in Shaw v. Reno , 4 in which the Court, speaking through Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, suggested that drawing race-conscious districting lines may widen the racial divide rather than get us beyond race.” “

Justice Sandra Day O’Connor described the shape of the new district as “bizarre.” The court found that if a redistricting map is “so bizarre on its face that it is ‘unexplainable on grounds other than race’” it must be held to the standard of strict scrutiny.”

Read more: http://www.kosmix.com/topic/shaw_v._reno#ixzz18qnjTi7b

The Shaw v. Reno case was used as a basis for many more “Bizarre” districts. These districts were set p by Democrat controlled state legislators and Governors. So maybe you should do a little research of your own.

I might add a little more information; this next article is dated Aug. 26, 2010, written in the DailyKos, in which plans were made and seeking support by the liberal socialist dailykos, to do the very thing you are accusing the Republicans of now doing.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/26/19654/7878

I might also add this link:

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/10/10/3091085/pelosi-carries-burtons-redistricting.html

Concerning Tom Delay:

“WASHINGTON, Oct. 18, 2004 - Though too late at least for next month’s election, the Supreme Court on Monday gave Texas Democrats a renewed chance to challenge the Congressional redistricting plan that is expected to cost as many as five Democratic incumbents their House seats.
In an unsigned and apparently unanimous order, the justices vacated a ruling issued in January by a special three-judge federal district court in Austin that upheld an unusual mid-decade redistricting imposed by the Texas Legislature’s new Republican majority last year over Democratic opposition. The district court had rejected the Democrats’ argument that the new plan, engineered by Tom DeLay of Texas, majority leader of the United States House, was an unconstitutional partisan gerrymander.”

“On June 28, 2006, the Supreme Court upheld the statewide redistricting as Constitutional, but struck down Congressional District 23 as racial gerrymandering in violation of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.”

Point being: this was going on long before either you or I were born, and it will continue to take place. But don’t come on here and try to make it look like Republicans have the corner on redistricting for personal gain. And don’t fall for the liberal trick of using the latest talking points…

Posted by: Conservativethinker at December 22, 2010 10:00 AM
Comment #315665

RF you have to remember where this people come from. My parents just relocated to texas and you can be sure they will not be voting repubican. so the more people that move south the more the vote start to swing the other way add in the fact that republicans are anti- latino add well you can see where this is going.

Posted by: Jeff at December 21, 2010

Texas has had many Rep’s and Dem’s as Governor’s and of course two presidents, one from each party. What has been important to many Texans is a government that responds to the people and one that is efficient with a business friendly environment and taxes that don’t discourage and harm its citizens.

Thanks for the Nate Silver link Warped.

As for illegal’s coming in from Mexico and points further South, I don’t believe they can vote legally…yet. And, unlike the black population who vote 80% to 90% dem, I don’t believe the dems can count on the Hispanic vote in the same way. To say that Hispanic’s are anti-Republican is a real stretch. Many are quite conservative.

I have lived in many states with Texas being my home since 1983. Many states would do well to emulate Texas government.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 22, 2010 11:26 AM
Comment #315667

“I have lived in many states with Texas being my home since 1983. Many states would do well to emulate Texas government.”

I too Royal was a vagabond for many years, living and working in different stated from coast to coast and the swagger over Texas is just that swagger. Colorado beats Texas hands down. We don’t have a secessionist Governor nor BP apologist representing us. We do have Tancredo but then you have Delay so there are some black marks on each state.

Statistically Colorado people are better educated, healthier, not nearly as obese, with more people per capita living above the poverty level and a much higher per capita personal income. But yes Texas has a lower overall tax burden ranking 50th(lowest) while Colorado ranks 48th. We just get more bang for our buck.
Oh BTW in “best states to live” rankings Colorado consistently is ranked in the top 20 of states whilst Texas is ranked in the bottom 10. Your state government is all hat no cattle, IMHO. Certainly nothing to be emulated. If it wasn’t for Willie… I would suggest the US sell Texas to Mexico and use the money to pay down the debt. ;)

Posted by: j2t2 at December 22, 2010 12:51 PM
Comment #315669

j2t2;

“Statistically Colorado people are better educated, healthier, not nearly as obese, with more people per capita living above the poverty level and a much higher per capita personal income.”

This one is easy:

1. There are more liberals in Colorado and we all know liberals are better educated.

2. There are more obese people in Texas, because there are more hispanics eating Mex food and more blacks eating soul food, and in Colorado the eat tofu.

3. Same with the living standards; there are more hispanics and blacks on welfare and food stamps in Texas, because there are more hispanics and blacks in Texas and everyone knows the libs want them on government checks.

“I would suggest the US sell Texas to Mexico and use the money to pay down the debt. ;)”

The liberals have already done that with California. :)

Posted by: Bill at December 22, 2010 1:42 PM
Comment #315673

Ah yes Bill how fitting your response in on the Republican message thread. Blame the blacks and Hispanics. Blame the liberals. And best of all “if your educated you must be librul”.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 22, 2010 2:47 PM
Comment #315674

j2t2, Bill certainly made some valid points. With what do you find fault?

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 22, 2010 2:56 PM
Comment #315676

Valid points Royal, or conservative mythology that passes as valid points by those movement followers that do not need facts nor truth to back up their beliefs. Prove your “valid points” guys. So far all you have shown is the conservative message is one of hate and prejudice. I mean do only Hispanics in Texas eat Mexican food? Do Black Texans eat only “soul food”. I do know that I eat my fair share of Mexican food and I am an old white guy.

“Statistically Colorado people are better educated, healthier, not nearly as obese, with more people per capita living above the poverty level and a much higher per capita personal income.” is based upon statistics from the statemaster website. As is this statement “But yes Texas has a lower overall tax burden ranking 50th(lowest) while Colorado ranks 48th.”

Posted by: j2t2 at December 22, 2010 4:15 PM
Comment #315682

RF,

As for illegal’s coming in from Mexico and points further South, I don’t believe they can vote legally…yet.

However, the population of illegal immigrants does count when it comes to Congressional Reapportionment. I’m glad you enjoyed Nate Silver’s analysis; he’s one of the few pundits that I read each day.

CT,
Thank you for the information regarding Shaw V. Reno.

There are no disputes from me regarding the history of gerrymandering. Gerrymandering is 200 years old and originated with Massachusetts Governor Elbridge Gerry. Massachusetts is the birthplace of gerrymandering and the liberal democrats here take great pleasure in continuing the practice to ensure there are no GOP congressional representatives.

Here’s a link to a list of the worst gerrymandering offenders in the current Congress. As you can see gerrymandering is a bipartisan process.

Here is a link to an applet that lets one do one’s own redistricting. It’s a fun exercise for a political junkie.

Regarding your accusation that Liberals like to change the topic: I see that all the time with right wingers and I don’t have to much of a problem with it as long as it isn’t too excessive. This post was originally about how conservatives blocked the use of certain terms on the commission report on what led to the current financial crisis. Look how many times the subject changed since then and who did the changing.

Posted by: Warped Reality at December 22, 2010 5:46 PM
Comment #315684

It’s a shame that j2t2 is ignorant regarding the cost of illegals in Texas compared to Colorado. I have a sister living in Colorado and visit often. I like Colorado.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 22, 2010 6:01 PM
Comment #315688

So yet another change of subject Royal? IS this one of your valid points that Bill made? Cause I sure didn’t see Bill talking about illegals in his conservative mythology spiel. Yet I am ignorant, go figure. You guys are proof positive of the nonsense Con spouts about moving from one talking point to another, once again. (I guess he just can’t figure it out but FYI it is still “moving from one talking point to another” when conservatives do it Con.)

I like Colorado as well Royal but please don’t wish Texas state government on us, we don’t need it nor do we want it.

BTW if Texas stets government is spending so much more on illegals what does that say about your Governor? The difference in the per capita population of illegals between Texas isn’t that much Texas is #3 in the nation and Colorado is #6 in the nation.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 22, 2010 6:52 PM
Comment #315732

The great engine of growth in America is not the Northeast Megalopolis, which was growing faster than average in the mid-20th century, or California, which grew lustily in the succeeding half-century. It is Texas.

Its population grew 21 percent in the last decade, from nearly 21 million to more than 25 million. That was more rapid growth than in any states except for four much smaller ones (Nevada, Arizona, Utah and Idaho).

Texas’ diversified economy, business-friendly regulations and low taxes have attracted not only immigrants but substantial inflow from the other 49 states. As a result, the 2010 reapportionment gives Texas four additional House seats. In contrast, California gets no new House seats, for the first time since it was admitted to the Union in 1850.

There’s a similar lesson in the fact that Florida gains two seats in the reapportionment and New York loses two.

This leads to a second point, which is that growth tends to be stronger where taxes are lower. Seven of the nine states that do not levy an income tax grew faster than the national average. The other two, South Dakota and New Hampshire, had the fastest growth in their regions, the Midwest and New England.

Altogether, 35 percent of the nation’s total population growth occurred in these nine non-taxing states, which accounted for just 19 percent of total population at the beginning of the decade.

From Townhall

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 23, 2010 4:12 PM
Comment #316436

@j2t2 - I’ve been accused of being a libertarian and a conservative. It the job of the Conservatives to conserve the Liberal ideals of individual freedom and liberty. Being subject to the power of big money ain’t it. As for the libertarian label: Robert Scrouton’s first definition described it as being more of an iconoclast.

Posted by: Stephen Hines at January 6, 2011 9:03 PM
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