Democrats & Liberals Archives

If you're driving the bus...

Andrew Breitbart has some gall. I mean, really folks, he says he’s sorry for Shirley Sherrod, but the way he says it strongly resembles the non-apology apology that Joe Barton issued a while back.

New Rule: Look up the word misconstrue before you use it. To construe something, according to Merriam-Webster Online, is:

: to understand or explain the sense or intention of usually in a particular way or with respect to a given set of circumstances

To misconstrue is naturally to screw that up.

"I want to be absolutely clear that I think BP is responsible for this accident, should be held responsible and should in every way do everything possible to make good on the consequences that have resulted from this accident," he said. "And if anything I said this morning has been misconstrued to the opposite effect I want to apologize for that misconstrued misconstruction."

The Grammar Nazi in me would like to know whether we have a double negative here, or just a misinterpretation of a misinterpretation. But the part of me that was actually listening to what Barton said would say that such an argument is moot, because Barton is clumsily trying to say we heard him wrong when he told BP that he apologized for the fact that they were pushed to create the escrow fund, and that this was a tragedy of the first proportion.

That was what Breitbart's expression of sympathy reminded me of:

"I feel bad that they made this about her, and I feel sorry that they made this about her," he told MSNBC. "Watching how they've misconstrued, how the media has misconstrued the intention behind this, I do feel a sympathy for her plight."

The media has misconstrued this? He published this video on your website, committed the very error that he and others like him probably now bash the liberals and Obama for. He knew exactly what he intended to do to this woman's reputation. It could not be more baldly obvious. The difference between his error and their error, is that his error was necessary for all the other errors to take place. If he had done his due diligence on this matter, if he had acted like a real journalist, and not just a provocateur political advocate, he could have stopped the chain of misunderstandings, right there in its tracks.

That is, if he wasn't the person who edited this video together in the first place.

Misconstruction is the privilege of those who were trying to make a point, but fumbled it. Neither of these men failed at what they were attempting to communicate. But having your message misconstrued, in these cases, is much less problematic going forward than simply being well understood having lied or spoken a genuinely offensive opinion you wish weren't so offensive to people.

Republicans and Right-Wingers were not misconstrued. They delivered exactly the kind of message they wished to at the time. They just didn't like the way they were perfectly well understood. They were hoping that people would agree where they did not. They were either sure they had all the facts they needed to make their claims or charges, or didn't care.

These Republicans, and all too many folks on the Right want to blame the rest of us for their Communication problems.

They also seem to want to blame us for what we do, motivated by what they communicated.

One could argue that the Obama Administration moved too fast in responding to what the Republicans were accusing this official of, to what they were alleging about people in the NAACP. But if the Republicans truly believed what they did at the time, truly bought what they were saying, that is, if the Obama Administration didn't misconstrue the meaning of the controversy they were stirring up with that video, then where do the Republicans get off complaining about how she was treated? They were the ones who were essentially offering both organizations a choice between being shown up as hypocrites, and cutting her loose.

If Republicans, through their words and images, cause destruction to reputations, compel bad or hasty decisions, they should be taken to task for what they say and how they say it. If they do so repeatedly, their reputations should suffer for it. Dan Rather goes down for one big screw up. Breitbart makes a career of such cases, and he's rewarded with high regard.

If Republicans don't want to be construed as liars or bad sources, they have only to end their tolerance of bad reporting. If you don't want to be seen as callous, don't say callous things. If you don't want to be seen as against the middle class and the poor, don't take every opportunity to do the bidding of the rich at their expense.

If you're worried your actions and your words give you a bad name, the solution is not to continue your behavior and your offensive language, and then just try to spin your way out of a bad reputation. No, your solution will be to reform your behavior and what you say. If a picture speaks a thousand words, realities speak a million. When all is said and done, it is easier to redeem the reputation of somebody who actually did well and was misrpresented, like Shirley Sherrod, than to repair the image of somebody who persists in their error. As long as the Republicans continue to push bad policies and bad stories, they will have to face the consequences.

Republicans drove the bus that ran over Shirley Sherrod. They may have faced up to the fact that the accusations were mistaken, but it doesn't seem they've faced up to the fact that they were mistaken, and about more than Mrs. Sherrod.

Posted by Stephen Daugherty at July 21, 2010 4:07 PM
Comments
Comment #304138

Stephen D., there was NO mistake on Breitbart’s and his video contributor’s part. They wanted ammunition against any and everyone inside the Obama administration and put forth the Sherrod snippets for that express purpose. It was entirely intentional, and not a mistake. They accomplished PRECISELY what they set out to do. Whether or not they failed to consider the entire context of Sherrod’s oratory, is entirely beside the point and not a mistake, either. They didn’t care about the context, they had the ammunition they sought and used it as such. No mistake their.

The White House on the other hand, had no predetermined intent to fire their own people, and were not seeking ammunition to do so. The WH did commit the gravest of judgment errors in not validating the source and context BEFORE harassing Ms. Sherrod. That was a mistake. And one that is now costing Obama and the WH dearly in terms of political capital they should have been garnering this week for extending unemployment benefits and the financial reform legislation.

If I were Obama, Vilsack would be history, PDQ, as would my media communication’s director for not having vetted Vilsack’s action before proceeding with Sherrod’s firing. This constitutes a serious breakdown in coordination amongst his staff.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 22, 2010 12:06 PM
Comment #304144

Stephen Daugherty,

Republicans drove the bus that ran over Shirley Sherrod.

The Republican party did not conspire to have this story aired. For you to paint the Republican party with such a broad brush is equivilant to accusing the Democratic party of conspiring with Dan Rather to smear President Bush.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2010 12:54 PM
Comment #304149

Stephen,

Well written and valid.

The problem is that the media in order to continue to boost ratings can’t go after some faux journalist that nobody cares about. They have to turn this into a battle against the White House.
Andrew Breitbart will be forgotten in this mess. The media has actually let the GOP and their flunkies off the hook to further the story. This has to turn into a Black President/ failed White House/Vilsack/ NAACP condemnation so that it can drag on for weeks.
If the media reported that some political shill for the far right is the real cause of the problem, people would go, oh that again, oh o.k. we’re used to that and quite frankly bored by it due to the frequency of occurances.
End of story.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 22, 2010 1:11 PM
Comment #304151

Weary,

Apparently, you have no clue who Andrew Breitbart is.

Posted by: gergle at July 22, 2010 1:12 PM
Comment #304154

What I picked up is the affirmation in the NAACP crowd to her racist remarks before she finished her story.

I also notice that NAACP put in their complaint the use of the N word against the Black caucus without proof.

What I take out of this is that members of the NAACP are racist and jump to conclusions like the rest of us.

I would be interested to have some one do some real unbiased research (I understand that is not possible), into how racist members of the NAACP are as compared to the Tea Party.

I also think we all should be careful about using the race card for political purposes.

Not going to judge NAACP’s motives. However, I will say they “appear” like they use the race card for political gain.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 22, 2010 1:22 PM
Comment #304155
The Republican party did not conspire to have this story aired. For you to paint the Republican party with such a broad brush is equivilant to accusing the Democratic party of conspiring with Dan Rather to smear President Bush.

Weary Willie is correct. There is no evidence that this was staged in any way by “The Republican party.” It would be more correct to make it clear this was a staged by a Republican-based Tea Party mouthpiece and the Republican-based media outlet, Fox News propagandists.

Posted by: boomxtwo at July 22, 2010 1:24 PM
Comment #304159

Watch the crowd in the tape and tell me NAACP doesn’t have a race issue of it’s own.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 22, 2010 1:38 PM
Comment #304163

Craig,

Keep fishing.

Desperate times call for desperate statements.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 22, 2010 2:08 PM
Comment #304165

Andre:

There is nothing desperate. Simply the pathetic. Both sides are using race to get ahead in politics. Actually so are people in this thread!!

Right now the left is trying to promote “tea party = racism”. But look at the crowd at NAACP in the video, and then look at what the black congressmen were accusing the crowd of doing. (With no proof I might add, even with the whole thing on video).

So since some in the crowd at the NAACP event agreed with the racist comments make the NAACP racist? No. And neither should the NAACP be making charges it can’t prove against the Tea Party.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 22, 2010 2:18 PM
Comment #304167

Craig,

What about the signage? What about the letter to Abe Lincoln from a Tea Party leader?
You really need proof that the Tea Party has racist elements?

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 22, 2010 2:24 PM
Comment #304169

Andre:

I don’t need any proof than any organization has racist elements. I assume that all do.

What I need proof about is that the NAACP doesn’t have race elements.

This implication that their poop doesn’t stink but the Tea party’s poop does, is difficult for me to imagine.

So when I see the tape and see NAACP members agreeing with the racist part of her comments, I believe them. All the tape did was expose the fact that the NAACP’s poop stinks as well.

I do think there is something to take a look at with Obama and his rush to judgment. Remember the beer summit? So what we have is Obama rushing to judgment on the race issue once harming a white police officer and once harming a black government worker. Instead of calming the waters, his impulsive reactions added fuel to the fire. (sorry for mixing metaphors).

My basic belief is that on race, all our poop stinks, and we have much left to learn. So far from Obama I have am able to use him as a bad example of how not to rush to judgment.


Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 22, 2010 2:45 PM
Comment #304171

boomxtwo,

Fair enough, but a bit on the hairsplitting side for me. A spade may be a convoluted shoveling device, but it’s still a spade to me.

Posted by: gergle at July 22, 2010 2:55 PM
Comment #304176

Craig,

What I heard was a group of people who 1) had similar experiences and 2) Knew where the story was going. I heard nobody cheering any racist statements. I just watched the entire video just to make sure.

I did see signs that said monkey, nigger, depicting Obama as a witch doctor, go back to kenya etc. I did read the Letter to Lincoln and it’s hate filled racist comments.

You are interpreting something you think you hear the way you want to hear it. If there was cheering of racist remarks why are so many conservatives (except you and Orheilly) not jumping off the conservative cliff with you two

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 22, 2010 3:11 PM
Comment #304177

Weary Willie-
The Republican party encourages and supports the conservative media, even hands them their talking points through party publications. The relationship is not casual.

They may not be directly responsible for this incident, but this is one of many incidents their party-driven media apparatus has pushed.

There is no such equivalent apparatus on the left.

Craig Holmes-
Your standards are useless for determining correct behavior. You simply assume a quality and wait for evidence to prove it. Well, sorry, but evidence comes before.

That’s what makes the people who spoke up for Mrs. Sherrod so important. If she were truly racist, she would have let those people slide into foreclosure. Instead, she tells that she eventually thought better of her initial thoughts and helped them to the best of her ability.

That is who the NAACP as an organization chose to put up as a speaker: somebody who says treat white people like you would want to be treated. Was that accidental? No.

Nobody can entirely avoid racial tensions, nor racists in their ranks. The question is what their responses were. The NAACP and the Obama Administration, for all the faults of their response, were doing their absolute best to demonstrate their unwillingness to tolerate racism in their organizations. That was the point of what they did, and why they did it so quickly. They did not want to be accused of knowingly harboring racists.

The same thing with media bias Nobody can entirely escape bias, but they can respond to minimize its effects and extent, rather than aggravating it, or using the other side’s perceived unfairness and imbalance to justify their own. The person who complains about bias, then deliberately carries out their own is working against their own principle.

Not going to judge NAACP’s motives. However, I will say they “appear” like they use the race card for political gain.

No, not going to judge them, just going to insinuate and suggest. The Matt Drudge, Andrew Breitbart, and Glenn Beck system of logic.

I find it amusing that you respond to your side’s failed attempts at alleging hypocrisy by further accusing people of hypocrisy. As for Obama stirring things up? I remember he put that one to bed after that “Beer Summit”. It’s your people who made sure that was such a big controversy, that the President was saying that it was silly to be arresting somebody for breaking into their own house.

Everybody’s crap stinks, but you folks make great big shows of rolling around on the floor gasping for air shouting out how spelling Democratic Party poo is, how the Liberal’s crap stinks like nerve gas poison.

Meanwhile, you who have smelt it are utterly unwiling to admit that you were the ones who dealt this stink.

What’s more, I find it rather silly that you bash the NAACP for promoting black causes politically. That’s the point of their organization. You might as well bash the NRA for playing the Second Amendment Card.

Given what this woman said about the right and wrong of discrimination, I don’t think you have a real case, though, that the NAACP promotes the cause of blacks at the expense of white folk’s rights.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at July 22, 2010 3:21 PM
Comment #304181
There is no such equivalent apparatus on the left.
Posted by Stephen Daugherty at July 22, 2010 03:21 PM
“The talking points were developed before the end of last year and sent out to operatives and friendly media,” one Democratic consultant confided. “No Democratic member of Congress will question the President’s patriotism openly but we will use the media and other surrogates to raise doubts.”

“My boss doesn’t want anything to do with it,” one senior Senate aide told Capitol Hill Blue on Monday. “You don’t undermine this country to win elections.” Others, however, are willing to try anything to put the White House and Congress back under Democratic control. “The real war isn’t in Iraq,” one Democratic consultant said. “It’s right here at home, at the ballot box in 2004.”

Democratic sources say the talking points were developed by Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe, former Clinton campaign strategist James Carville, Senate Majority Leader Daschle and former House Democratic Leader Gephardt.

“This is a classic, Jim Carville, scorched earth campaign,” crows one DNC staffer. “Take no prisoners. That’s how you win elections.” Democratic party spokesmen would not return phone calls seeking comment on this report.


http://web.archive.org/web/20040613035649/www.capitolhillblue.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=13&num=1476


Right, Stephen Daugherty. The Democratic party is as pure as the wind driven snow.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2010 3:53 PM
Comment #304187

I love this. The best argument that anyone from the right has come up with is “everybody does it”. Actually, no they don’t.
While my 9 year old nephew often makes that claim to his parents, they aren’t fool enough to buy it.

Posted by: gergle at July 22, 2010 4:21 PM
Comment #304192

There was applause when the bit about discriminating against a white farmer was spoken, but also applause when the revelation of insight was aired. It looks like the audience was just enthusiastic about the speaker. That same phenomenon occurs in most southern churches.

Posted by: Marysdude at July 22, 2010 4:37 PM
Comment #304203

Weary Willie-
I say the Democrats are better about it, not pure. If you’re going to debunk my argument, debunk the argument I make.

I was talking about the Republicans having their own news channel all to themselves (Does FOX have anything like Morning Joe in it’s lineup, only for Democrats)

What’s more, Republicans and conservatives are pushed and encouraged to tunnell themselves into their partisan media, where Democrats are encouraged to go beyond the confines of their media, and not merely to scout out the enemy.

Republicans turn everything into a political calculation, and its rendered them unable to accurately sense when their politicians are lying to them or falling short. It’s far too easy for folks simply to say the right slogans and continue operating the same way they always have. Why? Because they can depend on the conservative media to cover their butts.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at July 22, 2010 6:08 PM
Comment #304207

Clearly, Stephen Daugherty, you blanket the entire party in almost every post you make. Clearly, the entire party is not performing as you portray them to be. I have failed to hear of anyone from the Republican party who is known to act as you say regarding this issue. Your blanket statements condemning the entire Republican party are wrong.

Andrew Breitbart isn’t a Republican. Sean Hannity isn’t a Republican. Bill Orielly isn’t a Republican. But, Obama is a Democratic. Vilsack is a Democratic. They jumped the gun on this issue. Your posts obfuscates those facts. Again, your statements condemning the entire Republican Party are wrong.

There is no such equivalent apparatus on the left.

This is the most obviously partisan, narrow-minded statement I have ever heard. This comment places you firmly in a state of denial!
No, you just believe they are better at it, now that you’ve been called on it.

My subsequent posts demonstrate clearly the left leaning media bias of most all the other news outlets. I’m sure your eyes won’t start bleeding if you read them. Go ahead and try. You will have to take the rose-colored blinders off, though.


Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2010 7:41 PM
Comment #304208

Is anyone else tired of this constant bickering over who is and isn’t racist? Who is and isn’t biased? Who is and isn’t sincere when they publish their views. The real pulse of the public is measured by various polls and one of my favorites is Gallup.

From Politics Daily…

“Not feeling particularly high on Congress? Join the crowd. A Gallup poll conducted July 8-11 has public confidence in Congress down to 11 percent, the lowest score in its “Confidence in Institutions” survey since 1973.

The other institution that took a hit was the presidency. In June 2009, 51 percent had a great deal or a lot of confidence in the presidency, a number that has now fallen to 36 percent.

Ranked at the top of the list of institutions that do command high confidence are the military (76 percent), small business (66 percent), the police (59 percent), the church or organized religion (48 percent) and the medical system (40 percent).

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 22, 2010 7:41 PM
Comment #304209

When it is used as weapons against everyone who disagrees with the liberal groupthink it gets to be very important.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2010 7:58 PM
Comment #304210

True Weary…but according to the poll I quoted above, it isn’t working for them.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 22, 2010 8:09 PM
Comment #304211

So the tea party was unfairly accused of using the n-word with no evidence. That set the tone. Then the Sherrod thing came out. Fox, Obama folks and the NAACP jumped to conclusions. Of the three, the real harm was done by the Obama folks, who fired the woman.

Republicans had nothing in particular to do with this. The idea of calling everything racism fueled the bus. The Obama folks threw Sherrod under it.

Shame on the racists all around and shame on the Obama folks.

Posted by: C&J at July 22, 2010 8:14 PM
Comment #304221

That’s no reason to let up on them, Royal Flush. I’ve been watching liberial bias since Ronald Reagan ran for president. God only knows what happened when the media consisted of only newspapers. Only now, with the internet and sites like breitbart.com, have the liberal media and the liberal wing of the Democratic Party had a light shown on it.
Let’s do another test of context. Since it worked so well in this instance let’s get the unedited video of the ACORN tapes out and take a look at them. Let’s see if the liberals can stand up against the full tapes when they’re put in context.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2010 9:09 PM
Comment #304231

Andre:

I didn’t hear anyone cheer either. I did see general agreement and support for each of her points.

You mentioned signs. Signs and video can each be doctored.
It has been documented that some groups on the left are going to Tea Party meetings with the intention to portray the Tea Party in a negative light. In other words, you do not know if the signs are real or the party affiliation of the holder.

Polling data which is at least scientifically based shows the Tea Party to lean right but be pretty mainstream. Far more main stream I would imagine that several in this column on the left. According to Gallup their big issue is the Health Care bill.

What I take away from this is that we have to be careful about race. We cannot tolerate NAACP throwing charges around without proof. We can’t jump to conclusions and fire people over race without due process. There are people out here on both sides who are trying to manipulate the system.

Obama is a mess on this. He really shoots from the hip on race.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 22, 2010 11:40 PM
Comment #304235

Craig said: “Polling data which is at least scientifically based shows the Tea Party to lean right but be pretty mainstream.”

That is an incorrect statement on a host of fronts. Let’s begin with the Poll. WHAT POLL shows them to be ‘pretty mainstream”? Since when is Republican, Main Stream? Last main accurate election poll I recall, had Independents as the Main Stream, and Democrats winning the majority of votes.

Second, NONE of the candidates the Tea Party have propped up are mainstream. Ergo, the Tea Party cannot be mainstream. Last statistical poll I saw, had only 17% of Americans identifying themselves with the Tea Party’s and all its agenda. Main stream? I don’t think so. Not based on the empirical evidence.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 23, 2010 2:02 AM
Comment #304236

WW, your commentary on liberal media is full of crap. It wasn’t a liberal media that covered the infamous Democratic Convention in Chicago. It wasn’t a liberal media that raked Clinton over the coals for years over J. Flowers, Lewinsky, and bogus trumped up charges regarding Arkansas dealings. It wasn’t a liberal media that brought down the Jimmy Carter administration in the election. Most Americans don’t live in D.C., which means they get their news, ideas, and opinions from the media as to what is going on in D.C.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 23, 2010 2:06 AM
Comment #304242

The NAACP audience being racist argument is an after the fact stretch as outlined here:
article

Posted by: Schwamp at July 23, 2010 10:07 AM
Comment #304244

David:

Gallup.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/tea-partiers-fairly-mainstream-demographics.aspx

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 23, 2010 10:43 AM
Comment #304245

Craig,

“Signs and video can each be doctored.”

The Tea Party proved that this week.Ask Mr. Breitbart.
Please don’t pretend Breitbart did not retaliate to the NAACP letter asking the Tea Party to condemn racist elements, not the Tea Party as a whole, but racist elements within their group.

“It has been documented that some groups on the left are going to Tea Party meetings with the intention to portray the Tea Party in a negative light.”

Whenever someone says “it’s been documented”, I like to see the documentation. That is an empty bit of nothin where I come from.

“We cannot tolerate NAACP throwing charges around without proof.”

Feel free to go to the NAACP web site or most news outlets to read the signs.
Feel free to read the letter to Lincoln written by Tea Party leader.
Feel free to look up some of the language used at Tea Party rallies.

“We can’t jump to conclusions and fire people over race without due process.”

Especially if it is an edited hack job video meant to dismiss valid points the Tea Party disagrees with that cause the firing in the first place.
Let’s blame the people who rushed to the house with full buckets because they were told there is a fire for the water damage, not the people who set the fire, yelled fire and ultimately lied about the fire? Are you serious?

“Obama is a mess on this. He really shoots from the hip on race.”

How do you come to this delusional conclusion?
” He really shoots from the hip on race.” What does that even mean? It sounds critical without any substance whatsoever? “He shoots from the hip on race.” I keep repeating it to myself because it sound more idiotic everytime I say it.


Craig there are times when the evidence is so overwhelming, that GOP apologists can’t get out from under the fringe membership gaffs and blunders of your party. What can you do? You tried.


Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 23, 2010 10:48 AM
Comment #304246

This just in from GOPUSA:

Have you read the Dodd-Frank financial overhaul bill that recently passed both the House and the Senate?

Well it’s not good for America — but with Barney Frank’s name attached to it, you don’t need to read it to know that!

Right. Just like no one needed to see the entire context of the Sherrod video, just take Breitbart’s word for it, or, in this case, GOPUSA. This kind of obvious petition to readers who would never question the author, take it on faith, you don’t need to know what’s in the bill, Barney Frank’s name is on it, indicates that their audience is full of sheep and not very educated, or, at least that is what Breitbart and the GOPUSA believe.

Of course GOPUSA’s readers have not read the bill. And, obviously, GOPUSA doesn’t want their readers to. They come right out and say their readers don’t need to read it for themselves, GOPUSA will tell you all you need to know about it. Barney Franks name is on it, and that is all you need to know.

My god. What idiots these are who subscribe to such propaganda. I get similar mailings from Democrat rags as well, using exactly the same tactics and logic. Our political communication content is still in the 19th century with the horse and buggy.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 23, 2010 10:50 AM
Comment #304247

Craig, that poll is about their demographics, not their political views or agenda. The poll shows only 8% claim to be Democrats (not mainstream at all), half declare as Republicans compared to 28% of the mainstream population. On political measures they are NOT mainstream, at all.

And BTW, that Gallup figure at the beginning of 28% identifying with Tea Partyers, has dropped to 17% in the latest polls. The more the public learns about the Tea Party, the more they move away from them.

We were talking about their politics. Not their demographics. Next you are going to imply they are regular folks because nearly all of the are American citizens. Again, the demographics says little to nothing about the non-mainstream political views. Again, the best reflection of their political views is their candidates for office like Angle in Az, or Rand Paul. Not mainstream at all, politically.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 23, 2010 11:12 AM
Comment #304248

Andre:

Here is an example of the left trying to set up the tea party as racist:


http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/the-crash-the-tea-party-effort-bears-fruit/

My point isn’t to “get into it” on which group is the most outrageous, only that we have to be careful in what we accept as facts on racism. Both sides are using unfounded racism as a political tool.

I would like to see your sourse for tea party language at rally’s. What is out there right now is words from Congressman. There has been $100,000 put up for the congressman to offer proof. Even though the entire walk was on video, nothing has come up.

“Obama is a mess on this. He really shoots from the hip on race.”

How do you come to this delusional conclusion?

Let’s see, something about a beer summit, and now this issue. One harmed a white police officer, and one harmed a black government worker.

The Obama adminstration now has a track record of shooting from the hip on race.

“Shoot from the hip” means that they take action and speak before a careful examination of the facts. And they do. I stand by my statement.

Actually, in a negative way, the Obama administration is teaching us on race. They are teaching us to carefully examine the facts before we make an allegation.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 23, 2010 11:13 AM
Comment #304251

Andre:

Thought you would enjoy this:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/left-behind-tolerance-and-the-tea-party/?singlepage=true

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 23, 2010 11:30 AM
Comment #304252

David:

According to Gallup the tea party is 70% conservative 22% moderate and 7% liberal verses 40% Conservative 38% moderate and 21% liberal for America as a whole.

So they do lean right.

The good thing about THIS disagreement is that it is based on something measurable.

Pictures or videos that may or may not be credible, and allegations without proof, are not valid in trying to paint brush a movement.

If NAACP would use this type of data, I would have no quarrel.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 23, 2010 12:04 PM
Comment #304255

Craig,

Read Tom Tancredo’s speach from the Memphis
Tea Party rally.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 23, 2010 12:39 PM
Comment #304256

Craig,

I hope you don’t mind that I not take as a credible source, a right wing blog.

Come on man.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 23, 2010 12:52 PM
Comment #304257

Then look at the Gallup data

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 23, 2010 1:03 PM
Comment #304258

Craig,

I have. Thank you.
Did you get a chance to read Tancredo’s speach?

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 23, 2010 1:37 PM
Comment #304259

Yes. There are racist elements in all our groups.

Want to see a video of Rev Jeremiah Wright addressing the NAACP?

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 23, 2010 1:58 PM
Comment #304260

Andre:

I really am glad we had this discussion. I hope to debate with you again as I like your style and have learned a great deal from you.

I am leaving on vacation and wont be back for about 10 days.

I hope to look you up then and continue our discussions.

Again thank you for the discussion.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at July 23, 2010 2:21 PM
Comment #304261

Craig,

The NAACP is not perfect. The Tea Party is not perfect.
The citizens of the United States are not perfect. Our government is not perfect.

When Rev. Wright made his comments maybe he was being racist. I have not read them because he does not interfere with my life or interest me. I’m not into radical nonsense. Just like some left wing crack-pot who thinks all Republicans are evil. I have no interest in things that only focus on negativity and are part of an agenda I don’t subscribe to.

But when someone I share political views with screws up I’ll be the first to say it. I’m very disappointed in our President. He has let me down for many reasons. Just not the irrational ones some on the right foam at the mouth about.

I just don’t get a movement or political party or organization that can’t admit when they are wrong, made a mistake or have members who might be a little iffy.
The Tea Party has racist elements.
What Breitbart did was wrong.
Maybe the NAACP shouldn’t be the ones who point it out because they’ve made mistakes in the past but it does not change the facts.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 23, 2010 2:25 PM
Comment #304262

Craig,

Have a happy and safe vacation.
Thanks to you too.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 23, 2010 2:31 PM
Comment #304273

Craig correctly states: “According to Gallup the tea party is 70% conservative 22% moderate…”

Right, and that translates into nearly 92% of them voting Republican or not voting at all. Enormously divergent from the mainstream center of the voting population. The Tea Party is nothing more than an ultra-conservative faction of the GOP, compared to the more mainstream moderate Republicans, which is why Republicans established a Tea Party Caucus in the House this week. Except for their role in promoting non-moderate, non-mainstream candidates with their primary block voting and endorsements, they are irrelevant in the General Election. Irrelevant because they used to vote Republican, they will still vote Republican, and the number of registered Republican voters has been going down for several years, as has their Party registrations.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 23, 2010 5:19 PM
Comment #304282

Weary Willie-
Mark my words: What the Obama Administration did was wrong. I recognize that, they’ve recognized that. Since they recognized that, only a partisan can continue to beat up on them. There’s no point. They’ve agreed it was wrong.

But they erred by believing Andrew Breitbart and acting too quickly.

See, you’re going on about a generalized sense of a liberal bias. But we have a specific case of Conservative media bias right here, and I think it would be more fair to discuss this case of substance.

Here, we have a man who was obviously looking to pay back the NAACP for what it said about the Tea Party. So, he gets this video, and either edits it, or gets it, all edited together. He fails to follow up, or fails to tell us what he already knows.

As a journalist, he should know better. If he’s a real journalist. If you find a document, you should go and find the whole document. If you find a video, and it appears somebody edited it, you should go find the whole thing, or some other source that tells you the entirety of what is said.

But Breitbart doesn’t seem to be of that culture. He obviously was more charged up about finding a video that could show the NAACP’s feet of clay than he was about finding the truth. It should cost him credibility, and it’s to the shame of those in the right-wing media and in the conservative movement that he gets away with it.

Worse yet, are all these people still trying to insinuate racism, still trying to make that video mean what they want it to mean, rather than what it should mean, given what we know about the whole content.

Republicans nowadays treat stories like this as a means to an end. They don’t perceive the dangers of trying to shape media messages to suit an agenda, rather than trying to perceive, and then respond to the truth.

Craig Holmes-
You want to see somebody who was shooting from the hip on race, go look at your friend Mark Williams. Obama’s been particularly careful on race. He doesn’t make barnburning comments on the matter every other week. I don’t even think he’s really addressed the NAACP controversy before or after. He hadn’t stuck his head into this situation until his Secretary of Agriculture fired somebody.

As for the Crash the Tea Party movement? I can understand the impulse to destroy that movement, but I would tell them not to bother. What have been the most controversial things said by Tea Partisans lately. Little clue: their own words. You got Sharron Angle losing to Harry Reid, who was all but DOA a few months ago. Why? ‘cause she can’t seem to stop saying crazy stuff. Rand Paul’s become a recluse up in Kentucky because of his apologetics towards BP and his rather archaic position on the Civil Right’s act.

Left and right, the Tea Party folks are being given enough rope to hang themselves, and are doing the political equivalent of running to the gallows.

Republicans are overestimating their recovery, and Tea Partisans are overestimating their appeal. Neither will end well.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at July 23, 2010 7:02 PM
Comment #304284

>Republicans are overestimating their recovery, and Tea Partisans are overestimating their appeal. Neither will end well.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at July 23, 2010 07:02 PM

Stephen,

I cannot predict that overestimation, but when you say, “neither will end well”, you are right. No matter whether they get their act together and put forward a better selection or not…no matter if they win or lose…their very presence in the political spectrum means, “neither will end well”. The good among them are tainted by the ridiculous and the horrible.

Posted by: Marysdude at July 23, 2010 7:21 PM
Comment #304286
Weary Willie- Mark my words: What the Obama Administration did was wrong. I recognize that, they’ve recognized that. Since they recognized that, only a partisan can continue to beat up on them. There’s no point. They’ve agreed it was wrong.

I agree, also I did not write over 100 posts on this and other threads.



But they erred by believing Andrew Breitbart and acting too quickly.

I also have taken responsibility for this by viewing the entire video and putting it in context.



See, you’re going on about a generalized sense of a liberal bias. But we have a specific case of Conservative media bias right here, and I think it would be more fair to discuss this case of substance.

Of course you would Stephen Daugherty! This specific case, is providing your position fodder.



Here, we have a man who was obviously looking to pay back the NAACP for what it said about the Tea Party. So, he gets this video, and either edits it, or gets it, all edited together. He fails to follow up, or fails to tell us what he already knows.


He wasn’t looking for payback, Stephen Daugherty. He was looking for an opportunity to expose the double standard that is apparent in the Democratic Party. I say the Democratic Party bacause it was members of the Democratic Party and members of organizations affiliated with the Democratic Party and members of a Democratic Party controlled administration that made this the spectical it has become. This was an opportunity to expose the falicy of the claims that lead up to the resolution passed by the NAACP condemning people who protested the health care bill’s passage.

You get to this point in your rather meandering statement :

he gets this video, and either edits it, or gets it, all edited together. He fails to follow up, or fails to tell us what he already knows

He sees what cannot be seen by the progressive movement. The double standard. Andrew Breitbart saw an ever increasing opportunity and he took it.

As a journalist, he should know better. If he’s a real journalist. If you find a document, you should go and find the whole document. If you find a video, and it appears somebody edited it, you should go find the whole thing, or some other source that tells you the entirety of what is said.
But Breitbart doesn’t seem to be of that culture. He obviously was more charged up about finding a video that could show the NAACP’s feet of clay than he was about finding the truth. It should cost him credibility, and it’s to the shame of those in the right-wing media and in the conservative movement that he gets away with it.

This is far from over Stephen Daugherty. Whatever culture your party’s superior stance puts him in only defines the Democratics that much more. His motivation toward thinking of the video he received was spurred on by the NAACP and it’s false claim of a specific instance of racism. Claim the money, Stephen Daugherty.

Worse yet, are all these people still trying to insinuate racism, still trying to make that video mean what they want it to mean, rather than what it should mean, given what we know about the whole content.
Republicans nowadays treat stories like this as a means to an end.

They have to.


They don’t perceive the dangers of trying to shape media messages to suit an agenda

Considering the approval rating of congress, ie. the Demcratic Party Leadership, I would say no one in DC does.

, rather than trying to perceive, and then respond to the truth.

I’m content you have admitted this to be the case in this affair.

Weary Willie- Mark my words: What the Obama Administration did was wrong. I recognize that, they’ve recognized that. Since they recognized that, only a partisan can continue to beat up on them. There’s no point. They’ve agreed it was wrong.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at July 23, 2010 07:02 PM


Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2010 7:55 PM
Comment #304291

I should get paid for this.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2010 9:42 PM
Comment #304294

You are being paid just what your observations are worth.

Posted by: Marysdude at July 23, 2010 10:44 PM
Comment #304295

Eventually, I agree.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 23, 2010 11:00 PM
Comment #304304

Weary Willie-
I find it much more comforting to use facts for fodder for an argument, rather than fictions. Anybody can say practically anything. Claim anything.

That is, until you get facts involved. Did you know Andrew Breitbart doesn’t think Shirley Sherrod deserves an apology from him?

Think about that for a second. He was the guy who unleashed this defamatory video, and he doesn’t think he bears any responsibility for this? Oh, Obama threw her under the bus, Obama threw her under the bus…

Yeah, but WHY? Did he just suddenly say one day, oh, I’m going to fire a mid-level USDA employee just for kicks?

No, his people were cutting ties with the woman to avoid getting hit by the controversy that this video was going to stir up. And stir it up, that video certainly was meant to do.

And really, if the charges were supposed to be true, what rational reason would the Obama Administration have to keep her employed? If the Right Wing wasn’t trying to get her thrown under the bus, what were they doing? What did they expect to happen to a government employee when they edited or posted such a video to show them saying what appeared to be bigotted things?

It’s only now, with 20/20 hindsight that the Republicans manage to ass-pull this complete reversal of things. You have no write to criticize Obama for what you were trying to force him to do in the first place. This WAS YOUR INTENTION. The Republicans and the Right should be the ones ashamed of themselves, and more so for the fact that they are trying to weasel their way out of responsibility for what they did. This BS just makes me sick, makes me angry, because it seems like the truth is a casualty in most of these controversies you folks stir up. Crime goes down in Arizona, but you couldn’t tell that from the rhetoric of the anti-immigration Right. The economy recovers under Obama, but Obama gets blamed for it by the Republicans who set the policies that caused the market failure.

Do the Republicans know any longer how to relate to the American people without BSing thing?

I’m just sick of the political psychosis of the right. I’m sick of people thinking that they can spout off whatever claims they want to, and just support them on their earnest feelings. Well, I’m sorry if you have a problem with me using facts to power arguments. Personally, I think that’s the way it should be, because it keeps people honest, keeps their opinions moderated by reality, rather than allowing them spin off into na-na land.

You seem to argue at right angles to reality, making appeals to ignorance, pushing theories that have little basis in common sense, much less available information.

I want America to wake up from this long nightmare of mismanagement, but your side seems intent on wrestling this country down, and giving it a sedative, keeping it in bed, keeping it in restraints.

You say it’s for our own good, but look at what’s become of this nation after decades of Republican ascendance and domination. You didn’t prevent the country from going back in the direction it was going in the Late Seventies. Your people recapitulated every mistake that LBJ and the others did, and then added the mistakes of the 1930’s to boot.

I’m sick of having to face a politics that is less about a cohesive political theory of things, and more about simple knee-jerk opposition to Democrats, and whatever they happen to be saying at the moment. America deserves and needs better than that from its parties.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at July 24, 2010 1:57 AM
Comment #304313

Stephen D., the real import of this event has little to do with Sherrod, but, with the newfound fame and popularity and die hard following Breitbart has acquired for his immoral and unethical, and very possibly, illegal action.

Have we not seen this time and again by the likes of Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, the Uni-bomber, BP execs, Wall Street Banking execs, GW Bush, McVeighs and Nichols’ in our society? They were all rewarded for their acts by our society, by their own measures of reward.

Breitbart’s new found fame will be directly translatable into monetary profits if he plays his cards as well as Palin did. Surely, this does not bode well for the future of our nation and society. But, who is addressing this over-arching decay of the foundations of our society? Virtually, no one. There isn’t the educational capacity in our leaders or populace at large to address these over-arching issues.

Hence, I continue to press my daughter’s proficiency with Spanish and Japanese languages. She will very likely have need of such linguistic skills in her adult life being forced as she likely to be, to review her options of other nation’s to move to for gainful employment and civil order.

Not even on Democrat’s or Republicans’ radar. Hence, I continue to implore voting out incumbents for effective democracy to be restored.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 24, 2010 9:27 AM
Comment #304316

“Andrew Breitbart saw an ever increasing opportunity and he took it.”

We agree Weary, Breitbart is unprincipled and unscrupulous or as you say an opportunist. He perpetrated fraud and is a hypocritical charlatan, much like Goebbels. He has proven himself to be a frascist, which is a combination of racist and fascist.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/opportunist

http://encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_561582379/opportunistic.html

http://thesaurus.com/browse/opportunist

When you manipulate the data and then report misinformation that is not journalism it is propaganda. What he did was not see an opportunity but instead he created a false opportunity by editing out the context of Sherrod’s message and using it as evidence that others were racist. If that is the kind of source the righties think is legitimate, legitimate to the point of defending this poor excuse for a human being, then it is time for a character check don’t you think?

Posted by: j2t2 at July 24, 2010 9:44 AM
Comment #304322

The people Breitbart wanted to impress were an easy target. The rest was collateral damage.

Posted by: Marysdude at July 24, 2010 11:34 AM
Comment #304544

David, Stephen,Marysdude, J2t2,

We have two choices in this country to pick our leaders from. A hen-pecked, nuetured bunch of jump at their own shadow Democrats. Or the twisted, unethical, bat-shit crazy, out of touch Republicans.
The future of the United States is truly grim.
David,
Ask your daughter if I could borrow her used text books. Tokyo is looking better and better,except for the occasional attack by large monsters, I’m there.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at July 26, 2010 3:29 PM
Comment #304598

Andre, there is another choice still, in America. The voters can force their representatives to act differently and more responsibly toward the nation’s future and population. But, there isn’t much time left to accomplish this. The end of the coming decade at best as I see it.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 27, 2010 2:34 AM
Comment #305792

Breitbart may be a liar and slime, but the fault lies with the FDA, Obama and the NAACP. If Sherrod’s boss at the FDA had kept to established due process procedures of employment, this would never have been an issue. She could have presented her side and Breitbart would have been shown for what he is. Shame on the NAACP who must have forgotten their mission of civil rights. It was their meeting and their video. They could have cleared this up first. If Obama had only said that everyone should take a few deep breaths and then look into the accusation, he and Sherrod would have come out looking good. Obama has shot from the hip before when there was a whisper of racial controversy (Henry Louis Gates. Obama had admitted he didn’t have all the facts but blamed the Cambridge police anyway. Turns out it was really a case of inflated egos, not racism.) We need to expect more of our leaders. The Internet is full of lies as well as truths. We need to take it all with more than a grain of salt.

Posted by: Hanky Panky at August 14, 2010 12:16 PM
Comment #380621

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