Democrats & Liberals Archives

Ah, Hypocrisy... How Refreshing!

It’s clear from those speaking on behalf of the Republican Party (and like-minded citizens) that the problem with America is too much government interference, or regulation. They believe that increasing regulation on corporations, especially mega-corporations, such as Big Oil, Big Banking, Big Credit, Big Pharma, and Wall Street, is anti-America, bad for the country, and just plain wrong in every way. Then, on the other hand, at least in regards to the Gulf Oil Tragedy, these same individuals (and their like-minded followers) demand that President Obama not only “do more”, but that he is responsible in part, if not fully, for not doing “enough” to prevent, stop, or fix the disaster.

So, for those of us with the ability to think critically, the Republican Party chastises the government, President Obama especially, for trying to more tightly regulate industries that have frighteningly dangerous control over the daily lives of millions Americans, yet at the same time, they demand that the president “do more” to stop, prevent, or fix a situation that could only have been handled with stricter regulation, and more government intervention?

It is amongst my fondest hopes that American’s, as a whole, are smarter than the Republican Party seems to believe they are. I have no doubt there are millions of Americans who think that regulating mega-corporations is anti-American, and that Obama is out to destroy this country by sticking his nose into those very same ever-so-precious corporations. I also have little doubt that those same people believe Obama has failed America, in some way, by not regulating BP, although they are probably unaware of the sickening irony of their own beliefs.

It’s no secret that political parties exist almost entirely on a carefully crafted cushion of lies, mistruths, and exploitation of fears, ignorance, and superstitions, but it takes some serious chutzpa to expect intelligent people not to see through this veil of dishonestly and deceit.

There are plenty of things wrong with America, most of which seem to stem from the poisonous tendrils sunk deep into the heart and soul of our government, of which I include not only politicians, but federal judges, and government watchdog agencies as well. When a federal judge from New Orleans has the audacity to say that temporarily putting off further deep-sea oil drilling is a horrendous thing for America, and that same judge is a stockholder in the very same company that is dually responsible for the Gulf Disaster along with BP, something is seriously wrong! When the government regulators are on the take from the industries they are supposed to regulate, and when federal judges are collecting dividends from the same industries they make judgments for or against, something is wrong! When politicians, sworn to do what is right by their constituents, counties, cities, states, and country, are more concerned with making sure their yachts can be paid off, and that their summer homes are as lavish as can be, something is wrong.

When millions of Americans are so easily tricked into championing the very same parties, people, corporations, etc., that are trying their hardest to rape America of every shred of dignity she has left, all in the pursuit of personal profit (for them, not you) there is definitely something wrong!

Posted by Michael Falino at June 23, 2010 4:46 PM
Comments
Comment #302586

Mike

I am afraid of any concentrations of power. The government has rightfully sought to break up great private power of monopoly. But the biggest monopoly of all is government. It is the only monopoly with the legitimate use of coercion. As government tames business and brings them into its power orbit, it concentrates more and more power.

I don’t trust big business. I don’t trust big government. We need to disperse power with checks and balances, both private and public.

Posted by: C&J at June 23, 2010 8:44 PM
Comment #302591

C&J,

I wonder how we are to deescalate big business without a powerful government. That sounds a lot like pissing into the wind to me. I’m farely sure big business, without being a real citizen, without being patriotic and without a real conscience, gets my vote for deescalation before government.

Posted by: Marysdude at June 23, 2010 10:59 PM
Comment #302594

Marysdude

You are making too clear a distinction. When Obama intimidates BP, he makes BP much like a creature of the government. When a Federal regulator is “captured” by some of the firms it regulates, government and business merge.

The private sector, for all its wealth, is much more fragmented than the government and relies on government for the application of coercive force and protective regulations.

Government and business use each other and if you supply the power to government, sooner or later it will use it.

Think about it this way. You no doubt trust Obama with the sharp tools of the state. But before Obama was Bush and after Obama who knows. If you give the power to Obama, you will also be giving it in the future to someone like Bush. Is that what you want? Maybe it is better to concentrate the power less.

Posted by: C&J at June 23, 2010 11:38 PM
Comment #302600

C&J-
It seems that your philosophy is, if somebody can fail to use power properly, then nobody should have that power. I’m sorry, though, but there will never be a level power somebody can’t screw up with, and I feel there is a level of power at which government can’t get anything right, and that we are much closer to that, than to any theoretical level of excess.

There are powers, though, that I do wish to withhold from Obama and others. Bush’s unitary executive theory created a frightening level of intrusion into the average American’s life. A government must be able to uphold the law and protect national security, but we created an a array of civil liberties so we could have both strong law, and law enforcement and government held to account.

That, for me as a liberal, is what constitutes good government: robust policy, enforced robustly, and American citizens with robust ability to beat back abuse, corruption, and unwarranted intrusion.

The People, I believe, can force government back when it exceeds its mandate with them, but can also undo mistakes where they’ve taken too much power back. Political contention among free people with free rights of political expression is an essential part of my scheme of government. When folks like Bush not only ignore what people want and say they want, but do their best to suppress those views, they break things down, and set the strong power of government against the interests of the majority.

The Republicans want to make things about polls. I don’t put my complete trust in polls, because interpretations can often chase interpretations. A technical analysis of the issues should dominate, and whatever your politics, you should heed that, and at the very least work towards practical success at the expense of the political if you have to, rather than the other way around. I think it’s better if we accept that our political views are mainly wishes, and that wishes must be filtered through the realities that good solutions must face.

My politics is about feedbacks, between Government and People, People and government, and each with the realities of their situation. When they break down, we see policy disasters.

My advice to Obama, and anybody else, is react to the reality first, and the politics second. You can always compose a creative response to politics as needed. Policy realities, though, are not so flexible, and must be dealt with responsibly.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 24, 2010 8:26 AM
Comment #302611


“My politics is about feed backs, between Government and People, People and government, and each with the realities of their situation. When they breakdown, we see policy disasters.”

Like illegal immigration, a breakdown between the People and their Government, and the Arizona law, an attempt to reconstitute feed back between Government and the People.

Marysdude is closer to my line of thinking. Reassert the peoples control over their government, breakup the large corporations, get rid of the side show betting on Wall Street, decentralize business, then consider ways that we can decentralize our government.

C&J, The Robber Barons used small government as an extension of their means to create monopoly. Today, the huge multinationals are using big government to do the same thing. We now have a situation where even foreign corporations and foreign investors have more influence with our government than the people do.

That is not the corporations fault, nor the governments. It is the peoples fault brought on by our weaknesses that are exploited by both government and wealth, but primarily by wealth.

Posted by: jlw at June 24, 2010 12:55 PM
Comment #302615

jlw,

Exactly. It isn’t government that creates the monopolies, it is the LACK of fair and just action by government that creates them. Feudalism/Mercantilism existed long before modern democracy. It was the desire of our founders to dissociate from the European intrigues of wealth and warring factions that was the basis of our revolution.

Shay’s rebellion was a revolt against the same thing. While Washington perceived it as a threat to civil order, it is worth noting what happened after he quelled the rebellion. Voters ousted the politicians who had created the unfair taxation that had deprived revolutionary soldiers of their land grants. The Boston elites lost some of their influence over Massachusetts government. While lies and extreme actions created the rebellion and Washington’s campaign, as light was shed on the situation, democracy did it’s slow, methodical work, restoring some fairness.

Capitalism is a system that works, but it MUST be regulated or it becomes a substitute for democracy.

Posted by: gergle at June 24, 2010 1:51 PM
Comment #302616

jlw-
The Arizona law is a breakdown in the feedback, because of the excessive power it allows those enforcing the law. It also usurps, legally speaking, what should be the sole prerogative of the National government, as well.

All this big-government/small-government theory just makes my head ache. Why not just look at things in terms of good government, in terms of doing what’s required? We’re arguing questions of style trying to solve problems of substance.

We need a philosophy of government that cares more about the consequences of government than the political connotations of policies.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 24, 2010 2:06 PM
Comment #302619


Stephen, do you consider illegal immigration a breakdown in the feed back process?

The excessive power granted to law enforcement by the Arizona law is IMO, less excessive and less corrosive that the excessive power granted to business interests by the federal government’s refusal to enforce the immigration law.

Just the act of calling them immigrants is deceitful. They are, for the most part migrant workers who have little interest in becoming U.S. citizens. Do children of the migrant workers, from Mexico, born in America, have duel citizenship?

Posted by: jlw at June 24, 2010 2:51 PM
Comment #302628

By any poll of American voters I have seen the majority want our borders closed to those who would enter illegally. And, there is no interest in any kind of amnesty for those already here illegally until our borders are factually secure.

Mr. Daugherty, that is fact, that is reality, and that is the wish of the majority of Americans. You speak of “good government” but don’t support the laws we have regarding illegals from any country entering the US. It’s no wonder your head aches trying to support the liberal/socialist agenda on this issue. Hopefully, come November, some other part of your anatomy may also ache.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 24, 2010 6:56 PM
Comment #302629


Royal Flush, it is the same with conservatives. A larger majority of Americans say they have no problem with the amount of taxes they are paying and an even larger number of Americans say they want Social Security fixed not privatized.

In the overall, conservatives are more likely to ignore the wishes of the majority than the liberals.

Posted by: jlw at June 24, 2010 8:10 PM
Comment #302631

I am not complaining about the taxes I pay now. I am very concerned about the future when the bills come due and taxes rise. Some of the foolish folk believe we will grow our way out of debt…good luck with that. The liberal/socialists and the Boob in Chief are chomping at the bit to get a VAT in this country. One would have to be a complete idiot to believe that these boobs will ever reduce or eliminate deficit spending and a balanced budget is the stuff of magical thinking.

Since I am alreay on SS, it’s not a big issue with me. If I were in my youth…you can be sure I would advocate for the right to control my own retirement fund. I feel very sorry for our young folks who are going to be screwed big-time for this giant Ponzi Scheme. Does anyone seriously expect SS to ever, ever, get into the black and not continue to drag down our economic health? It’s a giant black hole that will continue to suck up ever more of our government resources.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 24, 2010 8:23 PM
Comment #302644

Royal Flush,

If you controlled your own retirement fund, why are you on SS? There is no law requiring you to draw SS.

The key to solvency of SS is to do a means test and raising the retirement age. It will happen.

Posted by: gergle at June 25, 2010 8:12 AM
Comment #302656

If you controlled your own retirement fund, why are you on SS? There is no law requiring you to draw SS.

The key to solvency of SS is to do a means test and raising the retirement age. It will happen. Posted by: gergle at June 25, 2010

Silly question, Since there was and is a law requiring me to pay into SS, which I still do being self employed, and since my Momma didn’t raise me as an idiot, I am being paid as part of the contract government forced upon me when I first began working.

The Ponzi Scheme has been redefined by gurgle. Everyone pays, the select receive. It will happen following the next revolutionary war. See you on the front lines.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2010 2:58 PM
Comment #302659


General Flush?

Your speculations about Social Security is just speculation.

If Social Security is to be privatized, it will be the liberals that do it.


Posted by: jlw at June 25, 2010 5:45 PM
Comment #302660


Obama declares victory.

Bank stocks soar.

Posted by: jlw at June 25, 2010 6:03 PM
Comment #302663

What speculation? Just a comment to gurgle.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2010 6:46 PM
Comment #302664

Buy in haste, relent in liesure.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2010 6:51 PM
Comment #302684

Ah, I see.

So, you selfishly want to bankrupt your grandchildren, over your perception of a contract in a Ponzi scheme. Thanks for that bit of info. As long as you get yours, screw everybody else, eh? What I have stated is commonly known and discussed in any sensible conversation about SS. Won’t be a revolution, just realistic grandparents helping out the kids. See you in jail, General.

Posted by: gergle at June 26, 2010 2:28 AM
Comment #302687

Sounds like the Republican mantra to me, Gergle. I got mine, screw everybody else. We need another Clinton to balance the budget again before we hand it back over to another Repug who will really screw us with the “deficits don’t matter” crap.

Posted by: Ray at June 26, 2010 8:11 AM
Comment #302690

jlw,

While I think there are numerous weaknesses in the legislation, the reason prices rise is the end of uncertainty. The goal of the legislation was not to bankrupt the banks.

Posted by: gergle at June 26, 2010 10:35 AM
Comment #302697

gurgle, SS is in fact a giant Ponzi Scheme. It meets all the requirements. What is this BS about me getting mine and screw everybody else. I paid in for over 45 years. And your comments suggest that now I should be “means tested” to determine if I am elibible to get my money back providing I don’t die before I do. Good Lord…I didn’t realize the extent of the mental disorder now raging among the liberal/socialists.

By the way…in the revolution I envision we won’t be taking prisoners. Tough luck.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 26, 2010 1:24 PM
Comment #302700

Here’s an intersting article from the NY Times that should give the liberal/socialists bad dreams to go along with their mental disorder. One does have to admire the writer, Mr. Charles Blow as a master of guile, as he refutes facts given first, with his spin given last.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/opinion/26blow.html?th&emc=th

“An NBC News/Wall Street Journal Survey released this week was chock-full of bad news for the left. More people disapproved of President Obama’s job performance than approved of it. And the percentage of Americans who thought that the country was headed in the wrong direction topped 60 percent for the first time since the Bush years.

According to a Gallup poll released on Friday, the percentage of Americans who identified themselves as conservatives rose to 42 percent. As the report noted, “Should that figure hold for all of 2010, it would represent the highest annual percentage identifying as conservative in Gallup’s history of measuring ideology with this wording, dating to 1992.” For the record, the percentage identifying as liberals fell to 20 percent.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 26, 2010 1:58 PM
Comment #302701

In May, California added 28,300 jobs of which 30,000 were in the government. You read that correctly — the private sector lost jobs while government added 30,000 new positions. One might ask the simple question of where the revenues are coming from to pay for these new positions.

AH…YES…the land of the liberal/socialists is just a minor mirror of our federal government under the direction of Barry Boob (Boop) and his minion dunces.

Let’s have a lottery to guess when Barry, Nancy and Harry will start demanding a bailout for California. And, New Jersey is even in worse shape per capita.

But then, as Mr. Daugherty is fond of writing, any job, whether it adds to the state or nations productivity or not, is a good job because it circulates money from those who are productive to those who are not and thus keeps money flowing. LOL. Mental disorder anyone?

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 26, 2010 2:25 PM
Comment #302702

It amazes me when I read the comments and banter on this site. The self righteous left cries about the wealthy companies and the power they hold over the stupid and unwashed American public, but never do you hear how George Sorros invests $900 billion in Petrobras a Brazilian oil company and soon after that the Obama administration loans $2 billion to Brazil for oil exploration.

The left cries about the horrendous way the right wants to destroy the environment and how we need to stop drilling at 5000 feet because the environment can’t handle it. Funny how they don’t mind that George Soros’s company is going to drill at 14,000 feet; I guess the Brazilians live in a different environment.

The right claims that President Obama is not doing enough because he continues to form policies that protect unions ie; The Jones Act and refuses help from our allies to stop the oil from reaching the beach.But I amsure you all will come up with some spin tactic from your cheeleading department to counter act my comments. Oh wait I got it,I know I’m stupid!

Posted by: mikee at June 26, 2010 2:37 PM
Comment #302705


“By the way…in the revolution I envision we won’t be taking prisoners. Tough luck.”

Obama just put another red circle on his google map. Tough luck.

“The goal of the legislation was not to bankrupt the banks.”

Gergle, You don’t quite have that right. The goal of the legislation was to insure that the banks will remain the most profitable sector of the economy. The banks are preparing to exploit the loopholes and the legislation isn’t even a done deal yet. The price of their stock will continue to rise as the increased revenue from exploiting the consumers rises as well.

It is time that we recognized that corpocracy is primarily government of by and for the shareholder.

Since spending to produce jobs is now out of the question, I am assuming the the Democrats are depending on the banks to spur job creation so that the Democrats can have some good news before the elections. The share holders might prefer more lucrative returns from the creation of jobs in other countries.

Wasn’t it great how the Democrats (Dodd) and the Republicans (Shelby) were able to work together on this legislation. It reminded me of the good old days of the Bush Administration.

I am assuming that bipartisan legislation on behalf of the Oilocracy is next on the agenda. Sweeping, under the rug, energy legislation.

The left is hiding from the right in Reagan’s back pocket and the right is continuing to assault them in absentia.

Posted by: jlw at June 26, 2010 4:28 PM
Comment #302706


Mikee, at least you know.

By the way, you missed a biggie, George Sorros is financing NORMAL.

Posted by: jlw at June 26, 2010 4:34 PM
Comment #302707

mikee,

” but never do you hear how George Sorros invests $900 billion in Petrobras a Brazilian oil company and soon after that the Obama administration loans $2 billion to Brazil for oil exploration.”

Another Glenn Beck conspiracy fantasy. I suggest that you read the Snopes.com article which declares the Glenn Beck allegations false.

The 2 billion dollar loan was made by the US Export-Import bank at a time when it was controlled entirely by Bush appointees (no Obama appointees). There was no executive order as alleged by Beck. The president of the bank made it very clear in a letter to the NYT that neither the Obama administration nor George Soros had anything to do with the loan. The purpose of the loan was to fund purchases of US manufactured oil drilling equipment by Petrobas. Helping US exports is a problem?

Another aspect of the Beck fantasy is that the Obama six month moratorium of Gulf deep water drilling is somehow related to favoring a Brazilian competitor to US drilling interests. They can drill while we cannot, as if six months would make a significant difference. In fact, the very deep water Brazilain fields (Tupi) have not yet been drilled.

Posted by: Rich at June 26, 2010 4:34 PM
Comment #302709

jlw…now we have two bills that no one understands. Isn’t congress just great?

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 26, 2010 5:03 PM
Comment #302723


It is what the people should have expected from 40 years of center/right government on behalf of the corporations and Wall Street investors. Government policies have allowed the corporations to wage war on the middle class while the right wing has done everything they possibly could to convince the middle class to scapegoat the poor.

Manufacturing is what made this nation and now people wonder why we can’t produce jobs and why we can’t recover from the recession.

The partisans of both parties should be quite proud of what they have accomplished.

Posted by: jlw at June 26, 2010 11:08 PM
Comment #302737

RF,

By the way…in the revolution I envision we won’t be taking prisoners. Tough luck.

Yeah, nothing mental in that statement. Most people just call internet bullies trolls. Everybody cheers for Dirty Harry. Most of us understand it’s fantasy venting.

SS was envisioned as a safety net, not a supplement to the wealthy. It was bargained as a guaranteed pay out when longevity and demographics were different than today, and to help it pass. Things change. Changing the guaranteed pay out and timing is the way it will made solvent, like it or not.

Since you acknowledge you are participating in a Ponzi scheme, and now demand your payout, please explain the logic of why you are owed illegal monies. I realize logical arguments don’t enter much into your posts, but give it a shot. Much like the illegal aliens who demand things, I must remind you Ponzi schemes are illegal. Remember, things that you say may be used against you. The key word here is illegal.

jlw,

While I agree that both the Healthcare bill and finacial reform probably don’t go far enough, regulatory issues are the current game in the never ending war of lobbyists. It remains to be seen if anything positive happens. At least, we’ve made a step forward, in recognizing the problems and enemies.

A bill that everyone hates suggests a good compromise in legislation.

Posted by: gergle at June 27, 2010 1:55 AM
Comment #302747

gurgle…Mr. Remer has explained to his class many times that if congress does it, and the SP doesn’t strike it down, it is legal. So, congress made the SS Ponzi Scheme legal as well as my forced participation in premium payments. As I said earlier, my momma didn’t raise any idiots.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 27, 2010 4:03 PM
Comment #302777


RF, If you think SS is a ponzi scheme then perhaps momma did.

Posted by: jlw at June 28, 2010 2:04 AM
Comment #302780

Rural Flash,

Momma may have raised someone who cannot make a sound logical argument, however.

Either you are participating in a legal safety net with current payouts and future payouts and revenue streams, or participating in an illegal Ponzi scheme. When someone mentions legal means to correct deficit issues, due to demographic changes and budgetary issues, you threaten violence and revolution. A brave thing for internet trolls.

So you must want to create an actual Ponzi scheme, believe what you are doing is somehow illegal, want to steal from your grandchildren or are, just like most Republican idiots, blowing smoke up our collective asses, because Rush said something you neither understand nor are able to analyze.

Thanks for demonstrating the childish crap you have spouted here as utter nonsense.

Posted by: gergle at June 28, 2010 5:37 AM
Comment #380582

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