Democrats & Liberals Archives

Think Before You Speak.

Here’s the recipe: find something that sounds funny. Get outraged about it. Add one part new-found conservative faith, and two parts conservative media. Put on heat for the next day, and then find out that you’re either objecting to something useful or something that isn’t even in the bill in question.

The Republican Batting average for these things has been poor, as of late. Bobby, there is something useful in monitoring volcanoes, thank you very much. Congressman Boehner, the money's not going to ACORN, they're not even making a bid for it. Instead, it's going to help communities keep their property values up by preventing homes from becoming derelict properties.

The Republicans are blindly accepting any objection that somebody in their particular orbit can come up with. The first link I gave y'all details their latest objection: to a $200,000 dollar item for tattoo removal in the budget. Well, the Republican response went around the world before the real story had a chance to get its pants on, but in fact, the money was to help gang members wishing to break with their past and get employed remove some of the tattoos that would stigmatize them in the job market. I mean, imagine that: using federal money to help former criminals get honest work. How wasteful.

This hypersensitive, hair-trigger way of dealing with the political discourse about spending is not only annoyingly partisan, it's a remarkably stupid way to approach policy, especially if the party as whole grabs onto something and decides to make it a required catechism in the dogma. Follow the link on the Marsh Mouse, and you'll find just how flabbergasted the Morning Joe crew is to discover that this juicy little tidbit is wrong. Worse is how some will try to rationalize it afterwards.

I get it. I really do! I'm not naive about what's going on. I think people are saying to themselves: a few white lies and we can get better policy or better politicians in place. They're telling themselves that if they do admit to it, or chastise their fellow Republicans for making stuff up, they'll be doing our work (the Democrats) for us.

What these people don't realize is that they ARE doing our work for us. If the Republicans are seen to be more serious about spreading rumors and innuendo than formulating serious policy, if they're more motivated to play political games than to do good for the American people, they make it easy for people like President Obama and Democratic bloggers to come in and be the serious, substantive, adult decision makers and pundits. I mean, when Rush Limbaugh has a little spoiled brat hissy fit about the poor reception of Jindal on the right, he's not doing his people any favors. Folks on the right should be concerned when their leaders come off as uncompelling or even goofy, or when their messages are rejected. When you shield yourself from feedback, you cut yourself off from the incentive to correct yourself.

The Republicans have been doing little but that since the 2006 election, trying to convince themselves that if they just become harder hardliners, more zealous zealots, more partisan partisans, they'll recover from their weak performance. What they fail to grasp is that it's this very way of doing politics, practically and rhetorically, that has alienated the American people from them. When times were good, it was a form of entertainment. Now it's seen as a hazard, and perhaps rightly so, because if the Republicans continue to operate in such reckless regard for the facts, can we say they haven't learned their lesson from the Bush years? And if they organize to deal with policy less to add or subtract constructively, and more just to score points with people who might have their doubts about Democratic Party and Obama Administration policy, what has changed about their politics that would lead us to believe they've left behind the politicallly driven expedience of their use of power over the last decade?

If they're not going to be straight with us, and deal with policy on a mature, practical level with the rest of America, why should be believe that they've learned anything about their errors besides not invoking Bush's name to support a policy?

Posted by Stephen Daugherty at February 26, 2009 5:21 PM
Comments
Comment #276302

I wonder how much this spouting of vitriol by our Republicans has to do with the rapid increase in the forming up of new hate groups? Not only is it self defeating as far as impact on the American psyche (lost elections), but it may be dangerous too. Thank you McPain/Palin, Rushie, Annie, Hanratty, Glenny, the idiot who shot the Chimp in his cartoon, the mayor who sent out the watermelon card and the idiot who tried to build a dirty bomb in his basement. After while the only folks left on the right will be the kooks.

Posted by: Marysdude at February 26, 2009 7:24 PM
Comment #276308

The rightwingers are self-destructing right in front of us. They have lost just about all they stand for and now they’re losing their minds.
Was anyone able to actually watch all of the Limbaugh piece?? I could only make it through about half before I became almost physically ill. The man is demented! He has no interest, not an iota, in discovering the truth about anything.
They are honestly and literally becoming dangerous!!
I agree completely with you, dude.

Posted by: jane doe at February 26, 2009 9:00 PM
Comment #276317

Before the Left goes around blaming the Republicans for showing us their Ignorance, they need to look at their own political party over the last 8 years and how the Media Pundits labeled them as Stupid. For why I realize that some on the Right have gone so far as to admit that they have no idea or plan on how to stop the downward spiral in the market or save their guaranteed civil and constitutional rights. Not to mahy years ago I remember telling My Democratic Leaders that they had better learn how to go about building a Better World.

For why I may not start, led, or encourage an Independent Political Party to challenge President Obama and Mr. T. Boone Pickens Plan to make America Energy Independent. I do believe that it would be interesting to see a Leader from the Republican Party stand up for the Individuals and States Rights to become Energy Independent.

And why they may split the now defunked republican party I am curious to find out if My Peers and Their Children would support a political party who would stand up for the rights of Individuals and States to produce their own energy against the Democratic Leadership who is promoting that Big Business and the Federal Government lead the way.

Maybe than the Pundits of the No-Nothing Party can be silenced by a Know-Nothing Party that sees the Wisdom and Opportunities of Debating President Obama and His Adminstration over what it will take for America to become the first Nation in History to become Economic, Energy, and Environmentally Independent.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at February 27, 2009 7:22 AM
Comment #276318

Henry,

The states have neither the will nor the money to ‘lead the way’ in new energy programs. The feds HAVE to be the catalyst for this big a thing. Besides, every state would want to claim authorship and we’d end up with more squabbling than even with the feds pointing the way. But with Obama, I think you’ll see more civilian and corporate involvement, and less government than even if Republicans recognized the problems in energy, and were willing to do something about it besides ‘drill baby drill’. Obama really WANTS to use his ‘bully pulpit’ to galvanize America into doing the right thing.

Posted by: Marysdude at February 27, 2009 8:54 AM
Comment #276319

Stephen,

Sometimes cartoonists say it best. Mike Luckovich of the AJC did one recently that sums up the partisan conflict of Republicans very well. I’m going to link to it, but have no faith in my ability to get the link right, so will describe it first:

President Obama is standing slouched under the weight of the world on his shoulders. A couple of elephants are standing by, and one says to the other, “Hmmm, should we help him out, or give him a wedgie?”

http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/opinion/luckovichfeb09/

In this morning’s letters to the editor someone wrote that Luckovich could have just as easily depicted Cheney/Bush in his cartoon, and had a couple of donkeys saying the words, and done so for the last eight years. The letter writer cannot see that it was not those in Washington who were giving Cheney/Bush the hard time, but that it was we Democrats in the hinterlands all along. Congressional Democrats gave Cheney/Bush a free ride on virtually every major issue, except Social Security, during his administration, and even now are dragging their feet about finding fault with him. They are all hogs at the same trough…only Obama is different. Partisan politics should stop right now, and a new sense of cooperation and cohesiveness should prevail…but, don’t hold your breath. Lindal killed any thought of that the other night.

Posted by: Marysdude at February 27, 2009 9:16 AM
Comment #276331

Marysdude,
Thank you for getting it. Because why I may not agree with President Obama and Mr. Pickens I do see where their Logic and Reason is probably smarter than mine. However, my problem with the No Nothing Party is that they are not even trying to protect the Individuals and States Rights to generate their own Energy that can be added to the National Grid. So why I will support President Obamas’ Guaranteed Civil and Constitutional Rights to use the Bully Pulpit to encourage My Peers and Their Children to invest in a Zero Emission Commercial Power System. I am still going to argue as a Loyal Opposition that every American Citizen should be allowed to own a Zero Emission Power Plant that can cover their Basic Needs as a Citizen.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at February 27, 2009 11:09 AM
Comment #276335

So taxpayer money, in a bill that was and still is being sold as our best bet to fix our current economic troubles, being used on things like tattoo removal, the wetlands, monitoring volcanoes and community orgs, which have nothing to do with addressing this current economic problem, is ok? Then why not “sell” it to the people as such? Why dwell on the economy, use it to scare the people by telling them this bill is their only chance to stimulate the economy and then have so much backdoor stuff that does not stimulate the economy?

Talk about not being straight with people.

Posted by: kctim at February 27, 2009 12:25 PM
Comment #276336

One of the left’s favorite politicians is Barney Frank. Here are just a couple of quotes from this liberal.

“I think there are a lot of very rich people out there whom we can tax at a point down the road and recover some of this money”

Just imagine, the Chairman of the House Financial Service Committee believes that “taxes” are designed to recover money. Was the money lost or stolen; and now needs to be recovered? I expect my liberal friends on this blog will say stolen. Well, if true, lets haul them into court to face charges of theft, if not, let’s haul Barney into court for his crimes against all Americans for aiding in the theft of taxpayer bailout money.

“One of the problems that we got into was we did way too much home ownership and way too little rental housing. And [we need to start] getting the federal government back in the business of rental housing. And passing legislation to restrict bad subprime loans will be high on our priority list.”

Here’s the man who helped authorize and promote bad subprime loans and is just now coming to realize the error. Wow, what a guy…what a confidence builder.

Posted by: Jim M at February 27, 2009 1:05 PM
Comment #276340

>Here’s the man who helped authorize and promote bad subprime loans and is just now coming to realize the error. Wow, what a guy…what a confidence builder.
Posted by: Jim M at February 27, 2009 01:05 PM

The greatest difference between Republicans and Democrats is the ability to see a mistaken policy and readjust. Democrats seem to be able to master that concept better than the ‘status quo’ bunch. Not everyone can be right the first time, and not every Democrat can do it either…sometimes something is over looked or left out for various reasons. Clinton signed NAFTA and GLB into law. To this day, he refuses to see those two actions as mistakes. He’s one Democrat who could learn from Barney Franks lesson in readjustment. But, for the most part, what I say is true…Republicans refuse to believe or admit they have ever been wrong about anything of importance…the economy, for instance.

Posted by: Marysdude at February 27, 2009 1:57 PM
Comment #276358

1. “you are going to raise taxes on the people who stimulate the economy”

2. “you are increasing the size of government”

3. “these pork items will not grow the economy”

4. “he’s using economic fear to get his way”

republicans. blind to your own faults.

1. really? trickle down isn’t working - EVER!
2. you mean more than 40% increase?
3. we shall see.
4. at least he isn’t saying so and so is harbouring wmd - we are all doomed - he’s plotting attacks to kill americans. you mean that kind of fear?

Posted by: bluebuss at February 27, 2009 4:39 PM
Comment #276360

No, he was saying non-stop that we were doomed if his bill was not passed. That is all he preached about and all that was aired. Well, that and how its not his fault and how negative results coming from his bill won’t be his fault either.

Apparently the financial survival of our country is dependent on removing tattoos from thugs, saving wetlands and watching volcanoes fart.

Posted by: kctim at February 27, 2009 4:58 PM
Comment #276361

“I wonder how much this spouting of vitriol by our Republicans has to do with the rapid increase in the forming up of new hate groups?”

What new “hate” groups, Dude?
Constitutional and survialist groups grew big time under clinton, of course, and its not that far of a stretch to guess that they would grow even larger under Obama. But I hadn’t heard about new hate groups forming. Where did you read that?

Posted by: kctim at February 27, 2009 5:04 PM
Comment #276365

kctim,

Saw it on Faux News…nah, I watched a segment on the subject on TV the other night. The reference was Southern Poverty Law Center recent studies. I personally have not researched it, but believe the major increases have occurred over the last five to seven years. Both groups and membership in groups have increased significantly according to that news report.

I’ll check deeper into it if you doubt what I say, and provide cites, but I have a personal distaste for those I call ‘bark shooters’, and would just as soon not read too much on the subject.

You call them survivalists and Constitutionals, and that’s okay, but I don’t think there is even one of those groups that does not voice hatred for either another race, another lifestyle, another religion, or the government or one of the governmental agencies…hence ‘hate’ groups.

Posted by: Marysdude at February 27, 2009 6:08 PM
Comment #276379

kctim-
I’m afraid that we’ve moved on from the stimulus bill, to one of the spending bills.

But that doesn’t seem to be the only think you’ve failed to notice. Did you follow the links at all? The tattoo issue was about fighting crime and giving former gang members a new lease on life. The Wetlands issue is one of environmental stability, with erosion, biodiversity, and the removal of pollutants from surface water as part of the issue.

As for monitoring volcanoes? Let’s put “volcanic farts” in the minimum of perspective. Even the gasses from volcanic vents and sources can be deadly. But that’s only the beginning. Several cities and many towns in America lie within range of volcanoes, including Seattle. Whether its the potential for ashfalls, lahars (aka mudflows), pyroclastic flows, lava flows, and the like, if you think it’s a waste of money to keep tabs on volcanoes, then you don’t know nearly enough about volcanoes.

This is what I wrote this entry to combat: a politics that bases itself less on understanding and more on gut feelings that people aren’t bothering to educate themselves in order to better inform.

For me, on this site, my purpose has always been to discuss the practical issues of politics first and foremost. Part of what led me both in the 90’s and in this decade to oppose the Republicans is the distance that the Republicans have put between themselves and most substantive means of political judgment. I couldn’t support a politics that willfully denies the value of being well-informed and which rejects practical policy for the sake of political differences.

Jim M.-
I guess you’re unused to paying for what you spend. As for what you expect liberal friends on this site to say, you had to say it first.

The Republicans believe that suddenly doing an about face on their years of deficit spending, among other things, is enough to rebuild their credibility. I’d say good luck with that, especially after your party decided that it’s alternative was going to be an all tax cut bill. I know its an emergency, but at least the Democrats are willing to acknowledge that their policy leads to spending money we have to borrow. The Republicans just yell “tax cuts” and run away from responsibility for their own brand of fiscal excess.

The problem was not increasing the numbers of potential homeowners. It was creating a system where this wasn’t done in a market-stable way, where bad or unfair loans were allowed by those who should have known better, where the regulations on how to pass on the liabilities allowed an excess of leverage.

Both Republicans and Democrats deserve blame for this. But the Republicans should be singled out because this was their flagship set of ideas: expanding markets by removing impediments to playing fast and loose with the fundamental numbers.

What we need to do to restore confidence is to get the banks solvent, and the economy working by means that don’t threaten mindbending collapses at the drop of a hat.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 27, 2009 9:49 PM
Comment #276392

Kctm,
Why is it so hard to realize that this economic breakdown and financial meltdown is not due to a Supply problem made apparent by the Market dropping 50%, but by a Demand problem quickened by the fact that the Consumers of America was asked to go Shopping after9/11 by President Bush.

For how many fancy cars do you need or tv’s in your home before the products of the 20th Century just get to old. Yes, higher fuel prices, increased mortage rates, and inflation may have started the fire; however, given the mindset of the American Consumer Iask “Where is the BEEF?”

So unless the Corporation can make the Goods and Services the Consumer wants and an income to where they can afford to purchase them. How do “We the People” increase the Demand for Resources and Supplies that will send the Market soaring?

Jim M.,
With the Fed Rate being zero I do believe that the case can be made that America should be repayed. Now at what percentage point and how I’ll leave that up to My Community Elders and Peers. For why I may be capable of such argument I get your point that Barney Frank is no where close to demanding such respect.

However, I still see a problem with the Republicans saying no to spending your grandchildren money on fixing up the Federal Buildings which will ensure demand and profits for many American Small Business Owners. And yes even the removal of tattoos will help some people and who knows how many of them can be Doctors.

And as far as Ownership vs, Rental in Housing, it might to some good if the Democratic and Republican Leadership realized that with most of Americans being single. The demand for a two bedroon home is only because most cities and contractors will not invest in building a single bedroom expandable home like the ones built by our Mothers and Fathers in the 1950’s.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at February 28, 2009 4:07 AM
Comment #276411

What I see happening with these gigantic federal spending programs is a design for trickle-up poverty. Adding to the problem are the huge tax increases proposed by many states and especially California and New York.

I read this morning that if enacted, the new taxes proposed in NY will add about $3000 to the tax bill of the average worker.

In New York, so called “sin taxes” now include a new 18% tax on non-diet soda. Even my liberal friends might agree that government is out of control. Consider that California will now levy a 20% penalty on money owed due to “any”, repeat, any error made on their citizen’s state income tax return…”no exceptions”.

Mass. is moving ahead with an additional 19 cent per gallon tax on gasoline. NY is looking at an 8% tax on all forms of entertainment including ski lift tickets. Wisconsin and a dozen other states either already have, or soon will have, a tax equal to the state income tax rate on all downloadable entertainment on the web including music, movies and games.

Mobile phone, cable and satellite fees have been going up for years and are slated to increase at an ever increasing rate. License and user fees in many states are being looked at for increases.

Trickle-up poverty is real and will get worse. When your pocketbook is subjected to “theft-by-politician” perhaps that wake-up call will be enough to slap many into consciousness rather a dreamy, government induced coma of acquiescence and compliance.

When it is your personal wealth that is being used to remove convict tattoos and other outrageous spending boondoggles, perhaps you might view it in a different light. If not, well…just bend over and enjoy.

Posted by: Jim M at February 28, 2009 12:10 PM
Comment #276416

””“The demand for a two bedroon home is only because most cities and contractors will not invest in building a single bedroom expandable home like the ones built by our Mothers and Fathers in the 1950’s.”“” Said Henry,Families were bigger in the 1950s we had a brand new Three bedroom 1.5 bath and only a 1300 sq ft house in southern ca with a total of six people my dad bought in the 1950s I think he paid $15,000 for it what’s that today like $115,000 with a va loan of either 1 or 2 percent we did just fine and all kinds of room a few years later he built a huge den behind the garage. His business expanded and we still lived there 12 years . One bedroom was not in the picture in the 1950s for most.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at February 28, 2009 12:46 PM
Comment #276423

Rodney,
Why families in the 50’s and today hold center stage in our political world I do believe that with more and more younger Citizens waiing longer to get married and an every increase in divorce rate a viable Market could be created for a single beroom home; however, seeing the cost and land use probits the Establishment from making money I doubt if we will every see affordable Home Ownership until we do away with the benefits of being single matches the benefits of getting married. Some things I guess are not suppose to change.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at February 28, 2009 2:24 PM
Comment #276430

Jim M-
Trickle up economy? I wonder where you got your new favorite catchphrase from. Another Rush Limbaughism? A Hannity Hilarity? A Coulter creation?

The irony here is that your bitterly opposed stimulus package would have provided funds to shore up more of the state’s budgets. But you see, they have to balance budgets, unlike Republicans in Washington, who can run deficits without paying for them, a method you seem to prefer, at least when Republicans are doing it.

The trick is, the states set their budgets in times of plenty, and now the revenues are way down, and they have no choice about what to do, if they don’t want to cut spending, which might make things even worse.

The sooner we get the economy back up on its feet, the sooner these unnecessary taxes can become obsolete.

As for trickle up poverty, I don’t see the problem in making it easier for former gang members who might either end up on Welfare, or back in their gang to get real, good paying jobs doing something productive. But I guess you’re looking for an opening for an argument, rather than an opportunity to do practical good. I guess when everybody agrees with you, then you can help people, Until then, you’re doing what you consider the next best thing: trying to stuff conservatism and conservative policies down their throats.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 28, 2009 4:01 PM
Comment #276457
Mass. is moving ahead with an additional 19 cent per gallon tax on gasoline.

This is paying for the Big Dig, which improved Massachusetts’ economy much more than any tax cut ever could.

Maybe investing in tomorrow isn’t such a bad idea after all.

Posted by: Warped Reality at March 1, 2009 1:08 AM
Comment #276535

Jim M.,
Trickle Up Poverty? Well, I guess the top 20% of Society can say that President Obama Plan will not help them get out of the Poor House anytime soon; however, as one of the Bottom 20% of Society who has seen my wages oppressed by Trickledown Economics and the Race to the Bottom Ideology of President Reagan and the Republican Party I wonder how you go about trickling up to poverty when you are already living below the poverty line.

Yes, maybe Americas’ Democratic and Republican Leaders should have allowed AIG, the Banks, and Housing Prices to free fall to zero. For why the Bottom 20% of Society may have lost a job, seeing that the Top 20% of Society would be broke and homeless by now I do believe that the Conservatives could say that they were just follow the Ideology of their Political Heros.

For as I said Trickle Me Up or Trickle Me Down it does not matter. Since unless and/or until I the Consumer is willing to buy what the Establishment is cooking the Top 20% of Society might want to thank their Democratic and Republican Leadership for given them jobs removing tattoos and other outrageous spending boondoggles.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 2, 2009 7:59 AM
Comment #276546

Dude
I don’t doubt what you said at all, was just interested in it so I could research it some.
Appreciate your reply.

Stephen
Yes I read the links and yes the tattoo removal is part of a new spending bill, but the mouse, according to the story in your link, was part of the stimulus.
You’ve moved on from the stimulus bill but still reference it to “prove” your point? Ok, no problem. My bad.

Stimulus bill: sold as our only hope to stop the end of our country; full of BS that have nothing to do with pumping up the economy.
Newest spending bill: Obama won and can push these on us as he wishes. Doesn’t make sense to spend like crazy when in so much debt, but he won and its his plan.

But, your post is about how the evil Republicans “make stuff up” or ignore facts to push an agenda and my initial post shows how the ever loving Dems do the same thing.

Posted by: kctim at March 2, 2009 10:23 AM
Comment #276547

Henry, what does any of that have to do with spending money we do not have? What does it have to do with telling the people you are spending to save the economy and not telling them about all the spending that does nothing for the economy?

Why is it so hard to realize that after hearing the Obama preach about the dire state of our economy for months, its weird to see him now placing his agenda before it?

Posted by: kctim at March 2, 2009 10:34 AM
Comment #276549

like to look up stuff here’s a site: national taxpayers union or national taxpayers union foundation. after doing your reseach, then search your soul and tell me it isn’t time for the top bracketts to do their part, and pay their taxes. they will find out how difficult things really are if they to start paying 86% of fed personal income. and how $4.00/gallon gas had crippled our nation.

and as far as a “dreamy government induced coma” that the dems are in ARE YOU SERIOUS. we are 44 days out of bush’s runaway locomotive that increased spending like never seen before, expanded government by 40%, sank us in deep debt, filled with lies (which bought us war, which we are still fighting), and betrayal, so NO there is no gov’t induced coma.

we are only supporting pres obama - and praying that he can find a way out of the bush errors. you do realize that pres bush has put us in this position don’t you? i mean there can be no middle ground here, you have to own up, or shrink up and blow away.

and no one i know feels sorry for the rich to pay their taxes. when ever that day may come.

Posted by: bluebusss at March 2, 2009 10:49 AM
Comment #276558

Daugherty writes; “The trick is, the states set their budgets in times of plenty, and now the revenues are way down, and they have no choice about what to do, if they don’t want to cut spending, which might make things even worse.”

Some trick…agreed! In times of plenty states spend and spend and then when revenues decrease, with no reserves, they raise taxes, fees and licenses. Please don’t count me among those you believe are fooled by saying in bad times they must also stay at the same spending levels.

“No choice” is simply B.S. There is always choice and liberals always choose more taxes and spending in good and bad times.

And please, spare us the sympathy for tattooed gang members. That actions do have consequences is conveniently forgotten by liberals who seem to believe all that happens is beyond our control and we must rescue everyone from their folly.

Liberals have determined that there must be a clause in the constitution that requires those who play by the rules to come to the aid of those who flaunt those same principles. Do what you wish with your resources Daugherty and leave the rest of us alone to make our own decisions.

Henry writes; “…as one of the Bottom 20% of Society who has seen my wages oppressed by Trickledown Economics and the Race to the Bottom Ideology of President Reagan and the Republican Party I wonder how you go about trickling up to poverty when you are already living below the poverty line.”

Henry, sorry to hear of your plight. Blaming others for our situation is seldom a winning strategy as it is rarely true. Baring some serious mental or physical health problem, most folks are capable of rising above their present circumstances…if willing.

Posted by: Jim M at March 2, 2009 12:06 PM
Comment #276614

Kctm,
In order for any business or government to make money they first have to ensure that the average citizen has money to spend on their products and/or services. Hence, the old saying that it takes money to make money.

For if the Average American Consumer cannot afford to buy food, clothing, shelter, or even worse pay taxes than how does a business or a government collect the funds and profits?

A problem throughput the Ages, I refer to it as the Beast eating its young in order to survive. For why America has used the Middle-Class for years to pay the bills recently the Elite has turned on itself trying to make profit and taxes. So giving the Absolute that the top 1% holds all the money, how much longer can the other top 19% of Society paying all the bills that give “We the People” our profits and taxes?

Jim M.,
An American Layman by Heart and Soul, I have no problem missing that which I have never had; nevertheless, I do believe that the so-called Elite of Society would find that they live in an entire different world if their Democratic and Republican Civil, Political, and Religious Leaders actually worked to level the playing field.

And why I will not get into why My Elders do it, I wonder if all the worry about the DOW falling below 7,000 and the self-destruction of wealth over the last year has many fearing being broke and homeless. For why I have no objection to My Peers using The Establishment to rise above their present circumstances. Seeing that it is the money of Their Children and Grandchildren that they wish to use to support their lifestyle. I wonder how many of the so-called Elite of Society would care to live in a Society that could not meet their Basic Needs.

Imagine going out to dine in a 5 Star Institute and having no one cater to your every need. Would Paris Hilton and other even know how to set a table? So, as the Top 20% of Society may have been taught to look down upon the Bottom 20%. Looking at the current economic and financial national and global meltdown, IMHO I stand on higher ground than those citizens who gave up their senses to chase the God Almighty Dollar. For to claim a good County Song “A County Boy can Survive.”

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 2, 2009 8:51 PM
Comment #276654

Henry
I am the one who must ensure I have money to spend to products or services I need or desire. Not business, not govt.
Business must ensure they produce or provide a product or service I am willing to spend money on.
Govt must collect taxes to run govt, not to run individual lives or make a profit.

Class warfare does not work on me. I do not envy or covet what others have and I do not allow emotions to dictate what others must give to those who have not.

Posted by: kctim at March 3, 2009 11:02 AM
Comment #276715

Kctm,
Why I respect your personal political position I am also aware of the other side of that debate held by the likes of Rush and Company. For why some Americans remember the days in America when a Days Work for an Honest Dollar meant something. I do believe that My Peers Children will not if the DNC and RNC cannot change the Public Debate in America. For why “We the People” see how to build a Sustainable Green Civilized Society even given the Limited Funds of Government and Society. I do believe that the No-Nothing Party of the 21st Century being promoted by some in America as they seek to hold a National Position is doing more harm than good. So I will continue to fight for Every American to become Economically Viable and Financially Independent in accordance to their own addiction to Bling-Bling.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 3, 2009 10:31 PM
Comment #276827

kctim-
The only reference I can find in the first article is a reference that talks about Marsh Mouse Style Talking Points. The Second is an article that references the shock of one conservative talk show crew at the debunking of it. I talked about moving on from the stimulus bill in terms of the fact that it was signed law, and that what’s being debated now is a spending bill left over from the Bush Administration. I didn’t say I wouldn’t reference past talking points like the Marsh Mouse which failed muster.

Stimulus bill: sold as our only hope to stop the end of our country; full of BS that have nothing to do with pumping up the economy.

It was sold as a means of keeping the coming recession from becoming deeper. As for the BS? I guess, if your theory is that Obama only floated the stimulus bill to revive liberalism. I can see how you might get that idea.

Trouble with that theory is that its untestable. Who knows what he’s thinking. Perhaps he’s a space alien come to lead us astray. But what we can see from the bill is aid to state governments, money to keep programs going that studies have proved to be excellent multipliers of economic stimulus, money that will give people jobs constructing things, money that will allow people to do research on critical technologies, money that will pay for vehicles, that will in turn pay workers. Money for improvements on the grid and the internet infrastructure.

But hey, you want to arbitrarily call things BS, be my guest.

I didn’t arbitrarily call Republican claims BS. I found facts that actually back up my claims. I don’t have to conveniently ignore anything to say that nobody explicitly wrote spending for a mouse, or for ACORN into the Stimulus Bill, nor do I have to make up the fact that the tattoo removal stuff is a legitimate anti-crime program.

Which, by the way, are the programs you reference in your first responses. It’s kind of weak to call my claims BS when my back up is right there.

You can’t out argue the truth. You can only out argue the people telling the truth, and that doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong.

Jim M-
These states have had the rug pulled out from under them, just like the rest of the government. The economy just shrunk by more than six percentage points.

You’re too busy making moral lectures about what the states should have been doing (like anticipating huge economic collapses that come out of nowhere), about how those nasty tatooed gang members should stay gang members (yes, that solves the problem) to figure out that among the things that would be cut would be police officers and the like. Wouldn’t that just be wonderful? Cuts all over the place, to city services, to repairs, to infrastructure maintenance and extension…

Everybody, it seems, has to learn these little lessons. Never mind letting people learn their own lessons. It seems to be the government’s job, in your mind, to shape policy towards the moral development of the American people, so you can just shove your opinion down their throats.

Look, just stop it. We don’t need sunday school lessons on the value of work. Most people are ASHAMED to be in their current financial shape, to build up debts, miss payments and what not. The don’t NEED your patronizing. What they need is for somebody to get this economy stabilized so we can make the hard choices without blowing things up further.

But hey, everybody has to be taught the value of pure capitalism, don’t they? You folks have to reassure Rush and his audience that you’re not going to budge one inch on issues, even when you’re proved wrong.

We liberals are going to do what we do best: clean up after Republican messes.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 4, 2009 10:35 PM
Comment #281322

The republicans should be thinking of how to integrate people into the society. People with tattoos can be discriminated subtly even when they have the right skills. The Republicans feel that what they want is the best for the society.

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Matthew
How to make Money

Posted by: Matthew at May 5, 2009 9:55 AM
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