Democrats & Liberals Archives

My Winners and Losers of 2008 Election

i guess everyone has their W & L list; here’s mine.

Winners
Barack Obama: for staying true to his positive message for change. For sticking to the message “this is what I plan on doing as President” rather than the attack politics of the past. Barack is the real-deal and the American public, in record numbers, showed up to put race aside and put country first.

Joe Biden: The real Joe the six-pack. He’s very smart and very wise and he didn’t suffer from the foot-in-mouth disease as the pundits predicted. He stayed true to the message.

Katie Couric: Her interviews with Palin were the turning point for the election. She allowed Palin to look like the person that she was, rather than the candidate that the McCain campaign manufactured. And in doing so, allowed the American people to see the: ‘there’s no there, there’ with Sarah the Governor.

The Youth Vote: Finally the youth of the country put their videogames and apathy aside and put their energy and vote into high gear. And in doing so, created an electorate that will follow for decades

The Electorate: Moving away from the gotcha/attack politics of the past, the new electorate put issues in front of wedges. They allowed for more meaningful discussions about which candidate were best for today’s problems.

The US: Never in my lifetime have I ever experienced the sight that occurred that late November 4th evening. Throughout the country, city to city, small town to big town, people took to the streets to rejoice that their candidate won the election. It was as if every city won the World Series. It was an emotional reminder that Americans are still connected to their elections and care deeply about the direction of their country.

The World: I realize that the US elects its own leaders regardless of what the rest of the world thinks, but the impact of the election of Barack Obama as the 44th President of the US sends a message to the rest of the world that we’re ready to do business again.

Losers
John McCain: Poor John McCain. Since 2000, he carefully prepared himself for his eventual Presidency. Unfortunately, he sold himself out in the process. For, had McCain held true to his pre-2000 beliefs, he would have fared better. Instead, he pandered his way to the finish line, only to see Bob Dole waiting for him with a pharmaceutical endorsement package waiting.

The right-wing attack media: Michelle Bachman, 527s, Sean Hannity, Limbaugh, Fox News, Mr. Ann Coulter and the rest of the wing-nuts now should realize the way out of the deep hole that they dug is not by using a shovel. The American public resoundingly rejected this white-noise.

Joe the Lieberman: Senator Droopy Dog can find solace in the fact that there’s always a welcome seat for him…. In the rocking chair next to Zell Miller.

Joe the Plumber, Joe the Six-Pack: As a marketing message, your time is up; it’s time to put you in the big pile of useless messages like ‘whaaatsssuuppp!”. Joe, I mean Sam, the plumber… I mean the construction guy, since he’s not a licensed plumber; your transparent attempt to catch Barack backfired. See ya!

Sarah the Governor: Some say she’s on the rise and the future leader of the GOP, I think the opposite. I think that her 15 minutes are up and she’ll go back to Alaska with the other slow-thinking glaciers. Unfortunately for her, with all of her Barack-bashing and partisan hacking, she alienated the Democrats in Alaska and will have a tough time governing. My guess, her upcoming book: “Cartography and other myths“, will sell briskly though.

Ophra Winfrey: I don’t care if this is the first candidate that you officially supported. In doing so, you showed your racial transparency. You put race above what was right for the country; it’s wrong regardless of which side you are on.

Nancy Pelosi: It’s time; Barack’s message that ‘change has come to Washington’ means that you must step down. It means that your direction and leadership is wrong for the American public and you should step aside to allow for real change to occur.

The GOP: News flash: The religious right is out of touch, was out of touch and will be out of touch with the rest of the country; the quicker you realize this, the better.

Harry Reid: See Nancy Pelosi

Racism: It’s not dead, but it ‘aint’ well.

Posted by john trevisani at November 10, 2008 8:44 AM
Comments
Comment #270054

I love it especially the losers haha sarah palin, poor sarah palin, yeahh right. GO OBAMA! and i agree with your statement country before race and obama makes a good positive message for change. Thank Goodness!

Posted by: Kristin at November 10, 2008 9:44 AM
Comment #270058

“Joe the Plumber, Joe the Six-Pack: As a marketing message, your time is up; it’s time to put you in the big pile of useless messages like ‘whaaatsssuuppp!”. Joe, I mean Sam, the plumber… I mean the construction guy, since he’s not a licensed plumber; your transparent attempt to catch Barack backfired. See ya!”

you don’t have to have a contractors license to work in a trade john, but hey don’t let the facts stop you from continuing with that pointless messege.

“Nancy Pelosi: It’s time; Barack’s message that ‘change has come to Washington’ means that you must step down. It means that your direction and leadership is wrong for the American public and you should step aside to allow for real change to occur.”

won’t argue with this one.

“Harry Reid: See Nancy Pelosi”

this one either.


“Joe the Lieberman: Senator Droopy Dog can find solace in the fact that there’s always a welcome seat for him…. In the rocking chair next to Zell Miller.”

yes john it appears the democrat party is truely under the control of the left wing nut jobs. bravo!!

“The GOP: News flash: The religious right is out of touch, was out of touch and will be out of touch with the rest of the country; the quicker you realize this, the better.”

news flash: this election was about the economy. the majority of americans still have traditional values. this is quite evident when you look at prop 8 in california, a state i might add that is @ 60- 65% democrat. any attempt by the democrats to go back to thier ways before 1994 will be disasterous for them. had the republicans not abandoned the principles that got them elected 94, and cleaned thier own house ie the many scandals foley, cunnigham, stevens, etc they would still be in power. you now have a chance, don’t overreach and blow it. BTW john looks like mahoney lost foleys seat to a rep. after being caught having an affair with an aide, well so much for setting an example, and as far as tom delays seat
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D948IPR80.html

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 10:15 AM
Comment #270059

dbs:

you don’t have to have a contractors license to work in a trade

Interesting defense… Let’s see… he wasn’t a plumber, yet he LIED to Barack that he was trying to start a plumbing business. His name is Sam, not Joe.

john looks like mahoney lost foleys seat to a rep. after being caught having an affair with an aide, well so much for setting an example, and as far as tom delays seat
Are you serious? It’s TEXAS; if the Republicans can’t win in Texas…
the majority of americans still have traditional values. this is quite evident when you look at prop 8 in california
Sorry to inform you, but it was the minorities that came out to vote down Prop 8, not the religious right. Now, if you want to have an informed discussion about WHY the minorities chose to vote down gay marriage; i’m all ears. Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 10:31 AM
Comment #270062

John -

Pretty cool post - I liked it.

The U.S. - “It was as if every city won the World Series.” YES! Like you, it was like nothing I’d ever seen before. The only parallel I can think of would be the nationwide celebration in Germany when the wall came tumbling down.

John McCain - In fairness to the man, he regained his honor when it counted most, in his concession speech. I was deeply gratified to see that he went back to being the John McCain I once supported rather than the win-at-all-costs politician we’ve watched over the past year or so.

Oprah - Actually, I disagree. After what the African-American community has lived through, who can blame them? Truly, who can blame even one of them?

I’m from the very deepest, most racist part of the Deep South, and I was proud beyond words to see Obama carry the Iowa - Iowa! - caucus. It was that day that I knew he would be the eventual Democratic nominee even though I was supporting Hillary. Best of all, though, was the multiracial, multiethnic quarter-million-strong mass of humanity in Grant Park…that was a nationwide - indeed, a worldwide - catharsis.

A year ago, if I had gone overseas, everything I would have done would have been colored, weighted down, shamed by the Bush administration’s actions - even though no one would have blamed me for Bush’s actions, the shame would still be there. But now…now I can hold my head up high, once more proud to be an American!

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 10, 2008 11:05 AM
Comment #270063

“Are you serious? It’s TEXAS; if the Republicans can’t win in Texas… “

care to adress foleys’ seat, or do just choose to ignore democratic parties own red headed step children.

“Interesting defense… Let’s see… he wasn’t a plumber, yet he LIED to Barack that he was trying to start a plumbing business. His name is Sam, not Joe.”

your right john his actual name is “Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher”. how dare he go by his middle name !
he asked a valid question john. what about the essence of the question question was not valid? the fact is obamas answer made him look bad, so the press went after JTP to discredit him. had obamas answer not made him look like a socialist no one would have looked at JTP twice. the attack on him was politicaly motivated, and started with the pipe fitters and steamfitters union. who backed obama. there are a lot of people who work in trades that are not union members. there were also state employees that may have provided confidential information about JTP, in violation of state law. the bottom line is, he made obama look bad, so the demacrat party set out to destroy him.


Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 11:07 AM
Comment #270066

here’s a question john. as a private citizen should i have the right to ask candidate a question, even if that question is hypothetical so to speak ? if the candidate answers that question, and screws it up, and in the process makes them selves look bad, do they then have the right to go after me as a private citizen and destroy me ? kinda scary if you think about it. might make you think twice about asking a tough question.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 11:14 AM
Comment #270067

dbs -

YES, you should have the right to ask a candidate a question! By the way, howzabout I list all the times an Obama supporter was allowed to ask McCain (much less Palin) a question?

[sounds of crickets chirping]

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 10, 2008 11:17 AM
Comment #270070

dbs:
If you REALLY believe the sincerity of Joe the Questioner, then i believe i have some great swamp land for your in Florida…. cheap too!

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 11:21 AM
Comment #270071

glenn

what are you talking about ? that question was asked in front of his house as far i know. if mc cain had walked through a residential area and a obama supporter had approached him with a question he would have had to answer it. how about my question glenn. should that private citizen then have thier life torn apart by partisan hacks for asking a tough question ?

[sounds of crickets chirping]

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 11:24 AM
Comment #270072

“If you REALLY believe the sincerity of Joe the Questioner, the i believe i have some great swamp land for your in Florida…. cheap too!”

i see john, so you choose to avoid the real question all together. what about the question itself was not valid. remember this was about obamas stand on tax policy, not about JTP. the democrats made it about JTP in order to distract from the real issue which was tax policy, and obamas botched answer.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 11:30 AM
Comment #270074

dbs:

here’s a question john. as a private citizen should i have the right to ask candidate a question, even if that question is hypothetical so to speak ?

EVERYONE has the right to question their leaders. It was the BUSH ADMINISTRATION that made questioning its leaders unpatriotic.

With regards to the hypothetical question portion of the spin, when McCain cited ole Joe’s question, he went on and on and on about how bad ole Joe’s life will be and how bad Joe’s small business would be crushed, etc… To his defense, McCain, since he does such a thorough job of vetting, probably thought Joe the Questioner was sincere.

But the reality is; Joe the Questioner was not sincere. He knew it then and McCain just needed something to grab onto. Even if Joe’s plight was a lie, McCain grabbed a hold of it like a lifeline and ran that fake-news-story into the ground.

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 11:34 AM
Comment #270075

glenn

once again you avoid the part of the question you don’t want to answer. was it ok for the democrat party to attack JTP, and attempt to destroy him for asking that question ?

“howzabout I list all the times an Obama supporter was allowed to ask McCain (much less Palin) a question?”

re read my first answer glenn, and you’ll find the answer to this question. also what does this have to do with the point i’ve made ? answer: nothing. it’s just your attempt to avoid the actual issue through distraction.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 11:38 AM
Comment #270076

Glenn:
McCain: i agree. His concession speech was his best speech in eight years.

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 11:39 AM
Comment #270077

john

i don’t care who grabbed on to that sound bite, and used it for political gain. do you believe they had the right to try and destroy that man for asking a completely legitimate question ? the status of the questioner is a non issue john.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 11:43 AM
Comment #270079

dbs:
i already answered your question; if you choose to ignore it, that’s your problem.

In this particular case, i’ll let your words speak for me:

but hey don’t let the facts stop you from continuing with that pointless messege.

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 11:52 AM
Comment #270084

Um, dbs -

The Dems DIDN’T ‘tear apart’ JTP’s private life. If you’ll remember, it was the REPUBLICANS that made such a big deal about him (Obama only spoke about him in the debate in response to McCain’s statements about JTP), and it was JOE that was trying to sign a book deal and a country-music deal and considering running for CONGRESS!

‘scuse you, dbs, but Joe’s woes are of his own making. If you embrace fame - as Joe CERTAINLY did - then you get to find out that fame isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

And it was the Plumbers’ Union that called on Joe to get a license.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 10, 2008 1:00 PM
Comment #270085

dbs -

And when it comes to “McCain walking through a neighborhood”…how about you find out if he DID that? How about you find out just how ‘accessible’ McCain and Palin were?

How many press conferences did Palin hold? Hm?
How accessible was McCain? Do you want me to start posting how many reporters commented on how McCain wouldn’t talk to them or take questions from them anymore?

dbs - what you’re doing is what the Republicans have been doing for years - accusing the Dems of doing something when the Republicans are doing that same something to a much greater degree.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 10, 2008 1:24 PM
Comment #270086

Those who suggest that Americans have turned liberal are not paying attention. In California, as Obama captured 61 percent of the popular vote. In the same election, Californians passed Proposition 8 — getting 71 percent of the black vote and 53 percent of the Latino vote — to codify traditional marriage in the state constitution

The future of the Republican Party is not in process but in restoring leadership for traditional American principles that are relevant to every demographic group, to every ethnic group, in every time.

Let the work begin.

Posted by: Jim M at November 10, 2008 1:43 PM
Comment #270088

john

you only answered half the question, appearently you don’t want to give me a direct yes or no answer on the other half. thats fine though.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 2:15 PM
Comment #270091

glenn

mc cain and the republicans may have exploited obamas poor answer to that question, but thats still no excuse for trying to destroy the life of a private citizen. the truth is still not the question, but the answer. JTP only asked the question.

“what you’re doing is what the Republicans have been doing for years - accusing the Dems of doing something when the Republicans are doing that same something to a much greater degree.”

once again, never mind the facts just use the same old tactics ie your guy is worse. much easier then actually adressing my original question.

” How about you find out just how ‘accessible’ McCain and Palin were?”

why do i care about how accessible they were ? i was talking about JTP, what does your question have to do with what i was talking about, other than trying to change the subject.

“‘scuse you, dbs, but Joe’s woes are of his own making. If you embrace fame - as Joe CERTAINLY did - then you get to find out that fame isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.”

no glenn “scuse you ” he wasn’t until obamas poor response to the question was used against him in the campaign. the media is the one that gave it the coverage that pissed off the democratic party, otherwise it would have been just another soundbite.

“And it was the Plumbers’ Union that called on Joe to get a license.”

i’ll say it once again you can work in a trade and not be licensed if you work for someone who is. the pipefitters and steamfitters backed obama, and immediatly set out to give this guy a body cavity search in order to discredit him. there was also information leaked by an ohio state employee to the media which is illegal, but hey that doesn’t matter, because the main objective was to destroy a private citizen for asking a perfectly reasonable question.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 2:40 PM
Comment #270092

Lets get some things straight about
Joe the Plumber
A) He had every right to ask the question
B) it was NOT Obama that made him a celebrity and rightfully opened his life to scruitny
PLEASE you people on the right seem to forget that Joe the Plumber was an unknown until MCCAIN used his name (without permission) in the debate.
C) the MSM did their job and pointed out details of the persons life and how it might have contridicted how he had been presented BY MCCAIN
Obama NEVER presented him as something he might not have been, nor did he (nor the campaign) ever attack Joe the Plumber.
D)Joe the Plumber had stated ERROEOUSLY that Obama’s tax increase would have prevented him from buying the business and allowing him the “American Dream”
It has been pointed out that if the business were CLEARING $250000 per year (after all the expenses including Joe’s own salary) he would have been a business IDIOT to NOT buy the company, even if it did mean “suffering” a tax RATE hike of 3% (from 36% to 39%)
E)and the socialist charge was equal BS
A socialist proposal would have been that the govt OWNED the plumbing business (and all other businesses) that the workers would have been running the business and shared in the profits.
F) As it was, it was also shown that
1) Joe already owed back taxes even with all the tax breaks that Bush had already provided
2) Joe wouldv’e gotten a tax BREAK under Barak’s proposal NOT a increase
3) JOE APPROACHED OBAMA, AND IT WAS NOT IN HIS DRIVEWAY — MCCAIN ET AL MADE IT SOUND LIKE BARAK WENT UP TO THE DUDE.
Barack answered his question and did quite well in answering MCCains version of what happened during the debate— he never gave the guy a hard time about the question — and if you note neither did he try to BS the guy and pretend like the anyone over 250K would NOT see a tax hike — unlike most politicians.

Geez this whole Joe the Plumber thing was BS the night of the debate (as judged by the independents commenting on it) it was BS during the campaign and it is still BS.
get over it.

Posted by: Russ at November 10, 2008 2:43 PM
Comment #270093

dbs:
i did answer your question.

Comment #270074 dbs: here’s a question john. as a private citizen should i have the right to ask candidate a question, even if that question is hypothetical so to speak ?

EVERYONE has the right to question their leaders. It was the BUSH ADMINISTRATION that made questioning its leaders unpatriotic.

See?
See your question mark?
See my answer?

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 2:47 PM
Comment #270094

one last thing
Ruin his life??
He has gotten a manager and is booking speaking engagements and making more money than he did as a plumber
Yea, poor Joe! (Sam, whatever)

Posted by: Russ at November 10, 2008 2:47 PM
Comment #270096

Russ

the bottom line is this, if obama had not answered the question by saying we need to spread the wealth around, this would be a nonissue. we can continue to make this about JTP, but it was obamas answer to JTP that started the snowball rolling, and thus the need for damage control.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 2:52 PM
Comment #270098

dbs:

t was obamas answer to JTP that started the snowball rolling, and thus the need for damage control.

WHAT?!
Damage control?

Earth to dbs! Earth to Dbs! Do you copy? Barack Obama won the election last Tuesday. Ergo, NO DAMAGE SUSTAINED.

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 2:57 PM
Comment #270099

john

comment #270066

here’s the rest of the question you continue to conveniently leave out, thus my need to keep repeating myself.

“if the candidate answers that question, and screws it up, and in the process makes them selves look bad, do they then have the right to go after me as a private citizen and destroy me ? “

hey no problem though, just keep taking things out of context and inoring what you don’t like.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 2:59 PM
Comment #270100

John and Russ -

We’re wasting our time here. dbs has no intention of having an intelligent discussion. He has no comprehension that fame has its consequences - and blames the Dems for it even though it was the Republicans who blew the guy’s status way out of proportion…which the guy WELCOMED.

It’s just like the girl who carved a backwards ‘B’ on her face. Fox and much of the right-wing world reported it as FACT until their assumptions were proven wrong.

To dbs, Fox, and the extreme right wing, it’s not about the search for and reporting of the facts. It’s all about power. That’s all - power. All else - including patriotism - are simply tools to help them get the power they crave.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 10, 2008 2:59 PM
Comment #270103

Bit of background first — I live in same area that almost elected Andy Harris in.farmland and beaches. Work in construction so a fare share of rednecks around.
One boy I used to work with -ex marine and willing to fight at the drop of a hat- he used to bitch about N** music [the guy played gospel and jazz]. Hates gays
He would make a racist/sexist statement and the go —jesus forgive me.
Well he stopped by yesterday and as he he was leaving I said “I hope you voted” unprompted he said him and wife both voted for Obama.
He did not like the way McCain campaigned and thought palin was a poor pick.
I an still stunned.
— Savage

Posted by: A Savage at November 10, 2008 3:02 PM
Comment #270104

john

“Earth to dbs! Earth to Dbs! Do you copy? Barack Obama won the election last Tuesday. Ergo, NO DAMAGE SUSTAINED.”

earth to john, earth to john, the whole incident took place before the election, so unless someone had a crystal ball they wouldn’t have known what the damage would or wouldn’t be, so damage control would have been standard operating proceedure.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 3:05 PM
Comment #270105

dbs:
Wrong DBS.
What you’re saying is that i didn’t answer ALL of your inane questions. For the SECOND question was a statement framed as a question. Sort of like: “Hey DBS are you still beating your wife?”

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 3:10 PM
Comment #270106

john

nothing unreasonable about that question. if you can’t, or don’t want to answer it, hey i understand.

Posted by: dbs at November 10, 2008 3:20 PM
Comment #270107

dbs:
sure, try the condescending angle; maybe that’ll work.

i’ll break it down so that, even you, could understand it; k?

“if the candidate answers that question, and screws it up,”
Barack did answer the question and didn’t screw it up.

”.. and in the process makes them selves look bad,”
Themselves is actually one word, but okay… follow along. Barack answered the question and didn’t look bad.

”.. do they then have the right to go after me as a private citizen and destroy me ?”
Barack answered the question AND DIDN’T GO AFTER Joe the non-Plumber.

Posted by: john trevisani at November 10, 2008 3:26 PM
Comment #270109

One thing that I found interesting with the Joe the Plumber phenomenon is that McCain had to rely on a phony to make his point about the flaws in Obama’s economic plan. How could he expect the saga of Joe the Plumber to resonate with the middle and lower classes when it was clear that Joe would be helped, not hurt by Obama’s tax plan (assuming he follows through with it as promised)?

Maybe McCain could have made his point more forcefully if he’d related the dire situation of a real small business owner who truly would feel the effects of Obama’s tax plan. I can only presume it was one of three reasons…that the McCain campaign didn’t think of it (highly unlikely), that those people don’t exist (equally unlikely), or that someone clearing $250k is probably not going to elicit much sympathy from an electorate with a median household income, before taxes, of about 50k (bingo!).

As for the “media attacks” on Joe, how could anyone expect the media to just take Joe’s story at face value after McCain mentioned him repeatedly in the debate? Once Joe’s story started to fall apart, it was inevitable that the media wouldn’t stop until we knew way more about Joe than we cared to know.

If I had approached John McCain and said that his health care plan would break me because of a family member’s illness, and Obama had referenced me a dozen times in the debate, do you really think the media wouldn’t have hunted me down? Or, if they found out that the family member I mentioned didn’t really have the illness I claimed he had, that they wouldn’t have continued to dig into my personal life until the world knew my shoe size?

If you truly think that the average media person is that far in the tank for a candidate — to the point where they would forego that kind of an opportunity to advance their own career — then you know absolutely nothing about the people in the media.

Posted by: Sam McD at November 10, 2008 3:42 PM
Comment #270110

Glenn Contrarian,

Your comment violates our rule regarding critiquing the message, not the messenger. Comply with our rules or your comment privileges will be suspended.

Your Comment: “We’re wasting our time here. dbs has no intention of having an intelligent discussion. He has no comprehension that fame has its consequences”

Posted by: WatchBlog Manager at November 10, 2008 4:30 PM
Comment #270112

Manager -

Thanks for the catch. My apologies to you, dbs, and Watchblog as a whole. Thanks for keeping me straight -

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 10, 2008 5:06 PM
Comment #270113

DBS
Again, your arguements are based on false premise

Barack answered Joe’s question, and did it quite well and without animosity, nor bullcrap.
He did not dance around the issue, but gave him a fair answer to a fair (but dishonest) question.

McCain tried to turn it into something it wasn’t
Obama’s campaign (nor Obama himself) NOW LISTEN CLOSELY did NOT attack Joe the plumber.

Additionally the MSM did not “attack” Joe the Plumber, however they did reveal FACTS about his life and story that McCain did not, but that MCCAIN (not Obama) Opened the door to.

If there was any intrusion into Joe’s life, it was not of any of Obama’s doing

Whenever that issue came up Obama EASILY countered with the FACTS about his program
That JOE, with the income that was KNOWN would have benefited from Obama’s proposals, and that IF HE MADE more than 250 K he would have seen a tax rate increase (3% big whoptedoo)

Again, once again, even MY RABID RIGHT WING FRIENDS thought that Joe was an IDIOT.

I have one rabid right wing friend who is quite wealthy — and his opinion was that if the co was clearing 250K HE WOULD BUY IT HIMSELF — IT WOULD BE A DEAL AND THE 3% TAX INCREASE WOULD NOT STOP HIM ONE BIT!!!
Quote from him
“YOU’D BE AN IDIOT TO PASS THAT UP FOR A MERE 3% TAX RATE INCREASE, YOU WOULD STILL BE CLEARING A TON OF MONEY!! — AND, IF YOU CAN’T GET THE PROFITS DOWN UNDER 250K YOU ARE MORE OF AN IDIOT!!”

THE WHOLE SCAM WAS SMOKE AND MIRRORS AND A BS ISSUE THAT WAS KEPT ALIVE BY MCCAIN, NOT OBAMA.

YOU ARE RIGHT — IT WAS A NON-ISSUE, BUT THEN WHY WAS IT MCCAIN THAT KEPT BRINGING IT UP, NOT OBAMA???

Posted by: Russ at November 10, 2008 6:35 PM
Comment #270120


The biggest winners: corruption and mismanagement. Many of those responsible were reelected.

Reed and Pelosi, they now have a rubberstamp president. Possibly not, they are to the left of Obama. He may decide to work with blue dogs and republicans rather than liberals.

The very biggest winners, the corporations, and why not, considering that they financed nearly every Congressional race.

The losers, workers.

The biggest losers, progressives who once again got suckered into electing liberals, better known as republican lites(oh no, Obama is not a leftist, he is a centrist and he is going to work with republicans to forge center-right solutions for our problems).

Posted by: jlw at November 10, 2008 8:41 PM
Comment #270123

It is possible that the biggest winners of all will be the UFOlogists. They have been convinced, by John Podesta, that Obama will disclose. But, they were equally convinced that Clinton was going to bring out the flying saucers for all to see.

Google John Podesta UFO’s.

Posted by: jlw at November 10, 2008 10:25 PM
Comment #270128

JLW wrote
“The very biggest winners, the corporations, and why not, considering that they financed nearly every Congressional race.”

Whatever, they’ve financed every Congressional race all of my life.

Also wrote
“ Obama is not a leftist, he is a centrist and he is going to work with republicans to forge center-right solutions for our problems).”

Come on a week ago he was the most liberal senator that was ever in the senate. Or so that’s what your side’s been saying.

Posted by: Mike the Cynic at November 11, 2008 7:49 AM
Comment #270131

Winners
- Obama: He promised voters the moon and won the election.
- Biden: He changed his mind about Obama and is now going to be VP. To even hint at a wealthy guy like him being a regular “Joe-sixpack” is laughable though.
- Palin: A virtual unknown who was thrust into the spotlight and despite all the lies, half-truths and biased coverage, 56+ million people still voted for the ticket she was on.
- Taxpayers: More entitlements were promised. More entitlements need more money. More money means higher taxes.
- The world: They will get to watch the US govt become more like them and less like itself.

Losers
- McCain: He lost the election.
- Obama: He has a major economic problem to deal with.
- Lieberman: Shunned for daring to think for himself and not be a lapdog.
- Oprah: Her two year campaign to get Obama elected and her post election behavior was racially motivated and disgraceful.
- Gay marriage: Obama voters who wanted and believed in some miracle “change,” apparently did not believe their fellow gay voters should be included in this “change.”
- Anti-war crowd: Obama went from preaching about an immediate withdrawal to supporting the current phased withdrawal.

Posted by: kctim at November 11, 2008 10:40 AM
Comment #270134

kctim’s distorted version of events
Winners
- Obama: He promised voters the moon and won the election.
No, he promised to aim at the moon, to shoot for the moon, and for giving us vision and hope and an HONEST approach to things —was elected as the POSITIVE approach to our problems rather than resorting to lies, fears and smears.

- Biden: He changed his mind about Obama and is now going to be VP. To even hint at a wealthy guy like him being a regular “Joe-sixpack” is laughable though.
Wealthy?? this guy has the Lowest Net Worth in the Senate (or near the lowest) — and he does have the credentials regarding relating to the “working class”
Unlike a certain Presidential candidate who didn’t even know how many homes (or cars) he owns


- Palin: A virtual unknown who was thrust into the spotlight and despite all the lies, half-truths and biased coverage, 56+ million people still voted for the ticket she was on.
BS — the people in her own campaign provided the fodder upon which you place this line of crap.

- Taxpayers: More entitlements were promised. More entitlements need more money. More money means higher taxes.
Higher Taxes = winners for the Taxpayers?? isn’t this on the wrong list (according to you)
But then Gee, — keep trying with the higher-taxes boogey man — you will continue to not get “your guy” elected.

- The world: They will get to watch the US govt become more like them and less like itself.
Again, — fear politics — we will NOT become more like them, BUT we will return to the position where they no longer revile our government and the atrocities they commit in OUR name — It was said that the anger at the Bush administration was because of what he TOOK AWAY from the rest of the world — A US that was a shining example of human rights, ethical conduct — the Role Model that other people in other oppressed countries could point to — We were no longer the shining beacon on the hill — the hope is that we will restore that light of hope.

Losers
- McCain: He lost the election.
Gee ya got one right — kinda tough to miss that one.

- Obama: He has a major economic problem to deal with.
Yea, thanks to the previous 8 years of mismangement.

- Lieberman: Shunned for daring to think for himself and not be a lapdog.
Not true — they are working on keeping him in to some degree, — but again the main issue was loss of integrity — The Dem org was ok with him backing McCain (not happy, but ok) BUT HE PROMISED NOT TO ATTACK OBAMA — AND THEN HE DID ATTACK OBAMA — AND IN THE SENATE, YOUR WORD IS YOUR MAIN BARGAINING POINT — JOE DID NOT KEEP HIS PROMISE, AND HIS CREDIBILITY IN THE SENATE IS SHOT AS A RESULT — JOE SHOT HIMSELF IN THE FOOT ON THAT ONE.

- Oprah: Her two year campaign to get Obama elected and her post election behavior was racially motivated and disgraceful.
Interesting — Oprah endorsed him (about 1 year ago) and then there was no further Public campaigning on her part —
racially motivated and disgraceful?? — I would like a little more specific example of what you would judge to be “disgraceful”.

- Gay marriage: Obama voters who wanted and believed in some miracle “change,” apparently did not believe their fellow gay voters should be included in this “change.”
Why do you think this is limited to Obama voters — thoughtful, fair minded people everywhere are disgusted by the continuation of this expression of bias and bigotry (hatred, etc)

- Anti-war crowd: Obama went from preaching about an immediate withdrawal to supporting the current phased withdrawal.
We are already seeing improvements in Iraqi attitudes about negotiating with US on withdrawal.
Anti-War crowds are Winners here — we have a commander in chief that has some common sense judgement about the use of military force — I think we can look forward to not having to worry about being lied into an stupid, unnecessary war — that is all one can hope for.

the biggest winner
The country
Even tho you have decided to continue to hold onto your negative, fearfull boogeymen — those of us who celebrated the chance at a new, positive hopeful period in American History will not be dragged down by your negative BS.

Posted by: Russ at November 11, 2008 11:48 AM
Comment #270140

“i’ll break it down so that, even you, could understand it; k?”

K !


“if the candidate answers that question, and screws it up,”
“Barack did answer the question and didn’t screw it up.”

of course he didn’t, thats why his answer was used against, and touted as a window to his true beliefs.

”.. and in the process makes them selves look bad,”
“Themselves is actually one word, but okay… follow along. Barack answered the question and didn’t look bad.”

thanks for the heads up on the one word thing john, must of hit the space bar by mis take, and once again sorry but it did paint him in a somewhat unfavorable light, or it would have ended there.


”.. do they then have the right to go after me as a private citizen and destroy me ?”
“Barack answered the question AND DIDN’T GO AFTER Joe the non-Plumber.”

no john of course he didn’t, and i’m sure democratic party had nothing to do with it either. i can see the post election koolaid party is still in full swing.

Posted by: dbs at November 11, 2008 12:44 PM
Comment #270142

Russ
Obama’s big three, minorities, single women and the youth vote, all believe they are going to be getting more from the govt. Heck, some even believe Obama is going to pay off their homes, cars etc…
Right now, Obama won the election and is a winner. If he follows through on what he made people believe, he will be a winner then also.

Biden is wealthy and only knows what he see’s and is told about the average Joe who struggles. Just as any other wealthy person.

Palin: 56+ million people still voted for the ticket she was on. Why? Because they know the party who spent the last 8 years condemning smears was just as guilty of doing the same and therefore did not believe everything they were fed.

Higher taxes: You are correct, thank you for pointing that out. As far as it being a boogeyman, if Obama does all he has led people to believe he will do and he works our debt down, then you will be right and I will be wrong. But can you honestly say you believe the people will get all their entitlements and we can work on our debt without raising taxes? Wow.

The world: Govt healthcare, higher taxes and redistribution of wealth will take us closer to being just like them. Especially now that we have nationalized banks and will continue to do so with many other types of business. Deny it all you want, but it is something that has been going on for a long time now.

Lieberman: Did not support the Dems stance on the war or their candidate. He did not fall in line with the party as he was expected.
As far as cred, you do realize he is looked better upon by Reps now, don’t you? Could maybe help in all the “reaching across the aisle” talk we have heard don’t you think.

Oprah: Endorsed him and had him on her show without offering the same to the other side. Totally her right, but says alot about the lefts one sided belief in things such as the fairness doctrine. She also appeared in public with him at speeches didn’t she? One could also see it in her shows at times also.
You can search for her after election remarks, but it seems as if John T and I share a similar belief of her actions.

Gay marriage: Its not limited to Obama voters, but they are the ones who said they were voting for “change.” It is a fact that nobody falsely believed the right would support it in large numbers and it is a fact that gay marriage rights would have advanced with the Obama voters support. There really is no way to spin out of that one my friend.

Anti-war crowd: They wanted an immediate withdrawal and they are getting a phased withdrawal that will resemble the current plan.

The biggest winner: I have not been negative about Obama yet. He will be my President (which is more of a chance than Bush ever received from the left) and I will give him every chance to earn my respect and support.

You, “celebrated the chance at a new, positive hopeful period in American History” based on words only, not on anything that has taken place. I guess there is nothing wrong with that, but you can’t expect others to simply fall in line. You probably had reservations about Bush much the same way we have reservations about Obama, is that really so unfair of us?
Come on Russ, lets support the idea of a new dawn together.

Posted by: kctim at November 11, 2008 12:55 PM
Comment #270146

kctim,

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/24/america/CVN-Biden-Finances.php

I looked around the Internet on this subject, and this was pretty much the consensus.

Is he “rich”?

Perhaps Biden is better off than most Americans, but I don’t know that I would classify him as wealthy.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 11, 2008 1:31 PM
Comment #270147

He Is The working person’s man always was.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at November 11, 2008 1:40 PM
Comment #270148

Russ

once again it’s not the question, but the answer. the answer to the question is after all what provided fodder for the opposing camp. if it hadn’t no one would have looked twice at JTP.


““YOU’D BE AN IDIOT TO PASS THAT UP FOR A MERE 3% TAX RATE INCREASE, YOU WOULD STILL BE CLEARING A TON OF MONEY!! — AND, IF YOU CAN’T GET THE PROFITS DOWN UNDER 250K YOU ARE MORE OF AN IDIOT!!”

THE WHOLE SCAM WAS SMOKE AND MIRRORS AND A BS ISSUE THAT WAS KEPT ALIVE BY MCCAIN, NOT OBAMA.

YOU ARE RIGHT — IT WAS A NON-ISSUE, BUT THEN WHY WAS IT MCCAIN THAT KEPT BRINGING IT UP, NOT OBAMA???”

would you please quit yelling at me russ… that may be so russ, but you would also be an idiot to vote for obama as a small business owner knowing full well that your bottom line would be negatively affected by his tax policy, thus the question was a legitimate one even if the person asking it was a sham.

Posted by: dbs at November 11, 2008 1:41 PM
Comment #270149

Rocky
I have seen that and others which put Biden at around the 100th wealthiest congressman and I accept that you are probably more correct in saying he is well off, more than wealthy. Being one who does not earn no where near what he does, he is rich to me. Personal bias of mine? Probably.
I really do like the guy, I just don’t think he has any idea of what my life is like.

Rodney
I disagree with Biden on some issues, but I like him and would feel ten times better if he and Obama switched positions on the ticket. I would guess, from his debate and speeches, that he probably does care about working folks such as myself, but I do not believe him to be a regular “joe sixpack” as John calls him, especially after being a congressman for sooooo long.

Posted by: kctim at November 11, 2008 2:07 PM
Comment #270151

dbs -

Did ‘trickle-down’ economics work? Even Alan Greenspan now admits it doesn’t.

Ready for some education on Republican propaganda? Remember how America takes SO much in corporate taxes? Here’s something Republicans LOVE to quote: “Among the 30 industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the U.S. has the second highest corporate tax rate. The U.S. has a combined federal, state and local corporate tax rate of approximately 39.3 percent, or 50 percent higher than the 26.2 percent average for the other 29 OECD member countries”

Sounds TERRIBLE, doesn’t it? But howzabout we look at the REST of the article?

“Among the 30 industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the U.S. has the second highest corporate tax rate. The U.S. has a combined federal, state and local corporate tax rate of approximately 39.3 percent, or 50 percent higher than the 26.2 percent average for the other 29 OECD member countries. However, this figure does not take into account the many deductions that corporations typically take. Other studies have found that many U.S. corporations pay no income taxes.

The PwC report noted that the high U.S. statutory corporate tax rate is partially offset by the 6 percent federal Domestic Production Activities Deduction, which reduces the effective federal corporate income tax rate on qualified income from 35 percent to 32.9 percent for qualified income.

The report also found that for small and midsized companies, the U.S. compares favorably with other countries in terms of ease of compliance. Widespread availability of electronic filing is an important factor in the favorable U.S. ranking in terms of the number of annual tax payments.”

So if we add another three percent, dbs, it’s not that big a deal. Hopefully next year I get the opportunity to pay those higher taxes….

P.S. I read somewhere that Republicans see taxes as a necessary evil to be avoided wherever possible…whereas Democrats tend to see taxes as the price for admission to live in a ‘prosperous country’.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 11, 2008 2:16 PM
Comment #270164

glenn

what does that have to do with my original point ? also we were talking in general about a domestic contracting business ie, a plumber, or electrician etc. i understand the point you’re trying to make, and if we were talking about competing in a global market, what you’re saying could be seen possibly as a reasonable argument.
why on earth though would i want to vote for someone who would raise taxes on my business ? all the deductions you are talking about amount to operating expenses. you have to first spend the money in order to deduct it. i know this as i was self employed for the last 15 years. raising the tax rate on my net profit would mean less money to put back into the business ie, i would have to cut back somewhere. if i had employees they would probably be the first to feel the pinch.

see what you did here glenn, ya got me sidetracked, and i still say giving JTP an anal probe was wrong.

Posted by: dbs at November 11, 2008 4:25 PM
Comment #270173

Poor Joe the Plumber. First he’s raked over the coals like no peripheral figure has been since…oh, I don’t know…Donna Rice. (Damn liberal media was at it even back then. Now remind me which Republican candidate’s campaign she sank?) Then, the poor, innocent fellow is on his way to his lawyers’ office where he plans to submit a complaint about all the unwanted publicity he received since ever-so-innocently asking Obama a question. He innocently stumbles into an unethical publicist who convinces him to overcome his intense need for privacy and attempt a very public career in country music, politics, or the ever-popular fame for being famous (Paris Hilton Syndrome).

How can you not feel for the guy?

Posted by: sam mcd at November 11, 2008 6:58 PM
Comment #270181

Obama the President of US is the winner because of his hard work.
===========================
lara

Sreevysh Corp

Posted by: laa at November 12, 2008 6:21 AM
Comment #270216

dbs again raises the spector of what he doesn’t understand concerning profits, expenses and Obama’s proposal
(to say nothing of still not understanding exactly WHO is responsible for poor Joe’s “loss of privacy”)
dbs wrote
raising the tax rate on my net profit would mean less money to put back into the business ie, i would have to cut back somewhere. if i had employees they would probably be the first to feel the pinch.

Net profit is what is left over AFTER you have “put into the business”
again, if 3% increase off of what is left over AFTER you pay your employees, etc (How again is this going to have you “pinching your employees” as a result??
Hmmmm
3% on anything ABOVE 250000
— if you actually look at Obama’s response the tax rate ONLY GOES UP ON THE AMOUNT OVER 250000!!!
Joe said that the company would make between 250, to 280 thousand dollars — so lets look at a 3% increase on 30 K dollars = $900
OUCH OH MY GOD LETS FOREGO TAKING ON A 250k + PROFIT BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE TO PAY AN EXTRA 75 BUCKS A MONTH!!
Yea, I can see the guy is a real up and coming tycoon

Here is the complete interaction — also note that Obama lets him in on the Tax Credit he would be getting as well!! (hmmmm that was never mentioned)
From Wikipedia:

On October 12, 2008, four days before the final presidential debate, Obama met residents in Wurzelbacher’s Ohio neighborhood.[3] Wurzelbacher, who had been playing football with his son in his front yard at the time, asked Obama about his tax plan.[4] As ABC News cameraman Scott Shulman recorded the conversation, Wurzelbacher suggested that Obama’s tax plan would be at odds with “the American dream.”[5] Wurzelbacher said, “I’m getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan’s going to tax me more, isn’t it?”[6]

Obama responded with an explanation of how his tax plan would affect a small business in this bracket. Obama said, “If you’re a small business, which you would qualify, first of all, you would get a 50 percent tax credit so you’d get a cut in taxes for your health care costs. So you would actually get a tax cut on that part. If your revenue is above 250, then from 250 down, your taxes are going to stay the same. It is true that, say for 250 up — from 250 to 300 or so, so for that additional amount, you’d go from 36 to 39 percent, which is what it was under Bill Clinton.”[7]

So the whole thing was BS
Obama did not “make himself look bad”
McCain was the one who threw Joe out into the Spotlight
If Joe got burned by the spotlight — hows about blaming the REAL culprit
YOUR HERO
John McCain.

Not the Media (doing their job) Not Obama (no attacks from him, AND he answered the guys question honestly and completely)
It was MCCAIN who tried to (unsuccessfully) turn it into “Socialism”
Joe is currently working on a speakers tour, bookdeal and country western recording contract
Yea, I can see that he is totally traumitized by the events

Wurzelbacher has signed with a publicity management agent regarding media relationships, including “a possible record deal with a major label, personal appearances and corporate sponsorships.”[23]

Posted by: Russ at November 12, 2008 2:52 PM
Comment #270221

Russ

“Net profit is what is left over AFTER you have “put into the business”
again, if 3% increase off of what is left over AFTER you pay your employees, etc (How again is this going to have you “pinching your employees” as a result??”

thanks for the lesson russ. if you can’t see how raising taxes on business would have a negative effect on that business, i can’t help you russ. it’s been fun though.

Posted by: dbs at November 12, 2008 3:59 PM
Comment #270225

Russ

sorry, i couldn’t let this one go. why is it again that anyone, or any business should have to give nearly 40% of it’s net earnings to the gov’t???? sorry russ but thats just bulls@#t, really no other way to put it. it’s a spending problem not a revenue problem. they know all about that in california. enough said.

Posted by: dbs at November 12, 2008 4:16 PM
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