Democrats & Liberals Archives

The Next President of the United States is Barack Obama

Enough said. (that is, until we start commenting!)

Posted by Stephen Daugherty at November 4, 2008 11:03 PM
Comment #269474

And may he run this nation as wisely and cleanly as he ran his campaign.

Posted by: A Savage at November 4, 2008 11:11 PM
Comment #269477

The First Democrat to carry over 50% since carter :0) Grads Stephen!!

Posted by: Rodney Brown at November 4, 2008 11:46 PM
Comment #269478

Thanks. This is a good start. But only a start.

And I don’t mean partisan-wise. This was never about a party winning. This was about getting stubborn policy mistakes ended, changing the guard to get things done, and done right.

I started my support of Obama in part because of the mindset I perceived in his politics, and the freedom of action that his style of leadership and political campaigning gave to him. Hillary might have been as powerful, politically in the campaign, but in my view, she showed signs that she’d be less able to change the status quo.

The rhetoric is nice. It’s good to have a president now who doesn’t speak as if he’s addressing a crowd of Kindergarteners. Or doesn’t sound like one himself. But it’s the thinking behind that rhetoric, and the options it leaves open and opens up for him that drew me to support him. What a person is willing to say when others won’t, what options and possibilities they’ll recognize when others are too wrapped up in things as they are, are what defines the scope and reach of their leadership.

For too long, politics has been an impediment to our country, rather than an aid, a device to divide and weaken opposition rather than strengthen and gather unity.

I can’t know the future, but I can see brighter possibilities ahead, since we have a president not committed to continue the mistakes of his predecessor.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 5, 2008 12:41 AM
Comment #269481

YES. We Can!
And damn it, WE Did It!
Now, we need to keep applying the needed pressure.
But, let us just enjoy this sublime and beautiful moment, first.
In the words of Dr. King:

And then I got to Memphis. And some began to say the threats, or talk about the threats that were out. What would happen to me from some of our sick white brothers?

Well, I don’t know what will happen now. We’ve got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn’t matter with me now. Because I’ve been to the mountaintop. And I don’t mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I’m not concerned about that now. I just want to do God’s will. And He’s allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I’ve looked over. And I’ve seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land. And I’m happy, tonight. I’m not worried about anything. I’m not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.

Well, this girl doesn’t believe in the coming of the Lord. Truthfully, I never did. But, I believe like crazy in the beautiful and real Enlightenment that is The United States of America.
Yeah, baby.
Mine eyes are (finally) seeing it, too. The way I’ve always seen it in my head. The way I always knew it could be — if We the People were only big enough. And finally, at long last, it seems that We Are. And that is just so damn beautiful. Seriously, there are no words. Except well: there ain’t no place I’d rather be but right here, right now, on this here amazing mountaintop with all of my fellow (FAKE?) AMERICANS!

And I’m happy tonight.
True peace, and unflagging love,

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at November 5, 2008 1:48 AM
Comment #269482

This was not a victory for the Democrats. This was a victory for the American people to liberate themselves from the divisive party infighting that has too long ignored the looming challenges facing us all and our children’s future.

I am an independent voter who chose to vote out every Democrat and Republican incumbent because I was not satisfied with our government. I chose to vote FOR Obama, not because he was a Democrat, but, because he was the only candidate capable of winning for uniting Americans across party lines and motivating them to meet and surpass the grave challenges facing our nation and people.

Screw Democrats and Republicans. They have together brought us to this place of precipice of economic demise, national disunity, and loss of direction and hope. Barack Obama ran his campaign to appeal to all Americans, regardless of Party, and that is why I voted for him.

My vote will always go to the challenger or incumbent who demonstrates their determination in office to lead our nation to meeting its responsibilities, paying its debts, surpassing its challenges, and accomplishing the fundamental goals shared by all Americans, peace with security, prosperity for all who work for it, and freedom to choose our leaders or, remove them from office as we, the voters see fit.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 5, 2008 1:56 AM
Comment #269483

congratulations guys

Posted by: dbs at November 5, 2008 2:00 AM
Comment #269484

This is a defining time, hour, and moment in history not just because Barack Obama is black. He represents a fresh & new government that connects with “the people of this mighty nation”. One that isn’t willing to bow down to the vicissitudes of the monotonous “politics and business as usual”. Offering a new attitude on reforming broken policies, a new hope for the restoring the socio-economic status of our nation, a new energy and spirit for the spirations of many striving for “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, a new plan or method for moving forward, a new hope and morale for those who feel like they have been blugened by a system offering what seems to be fueled by broking promises. He presents the demographic of “one for all”. We are spurned, ignited, and driven by a sincere pledge to restore, rebuild, and reshape, and revive the bureaucracies that have been cancerous to the loop holes of or system. We have stood, voted and the tally has been counted, and now is the time for everyone sattle up on the road toward change with the righteous winds blowing against our backs. Together we must change the way we think, talk, act, and walk. We must change how we view of fellow Americans. We must stand together, side by side, with a conscientously determined effort to move forward to learn from the past, change our present, and feed the mustard seeds of our future. We can not go back to an old character and mindset of “I have to do or make good for myself and my own”. We must work with “a unity of the spirit through the bond of peace.” We must encourage our fellow American to do better and work harder: to not act on war, violence, ignorance, mis-education, and tolerance of the pillars that threaten the infrastructure of our nations foundation. We all have to do our part in sewing seeds of “hope, love, peace, brotherly kindness, self-control, and faith.” Let’s purge the dis-honest, get-over, back-bitting, back-stabbing, and dog-eat-dog bussiness that has been the mitochondrion of our economic system, judicial, and legislative system. Let’s stop cheating our selves and selling each other short as a justifiable means to an end. Let’s foster the betterment of education and the ability to attain it, let’s re-vamp of welfare to work programs with the end goal being “working to make a life, not making a living.” Let’s encourage those who are entraped to abusive habits, lifestyles, and ways that threaten or good name and credit. Let’s educate those who are ignorant and misunderstand the “roadmap to recovery and progress”. Let’s inspire, motivate, and foster the hopes and dreams of the children of our future. Let’s care for those who have blazed our trails, who have given there life to service and committed themselves to work with a nature for the “common good.” Let’s help those who want to move ahead but feel cornered with there backs against the walls because of foolish and mis-guided decisions in early or late stages of their lives. Let’s reward the hard work and efforts of those who strive to do good and do better. “Good, better, best never let us rest, until our good is our better, and our better is our best.”

Posted by: Jerrell D. Bratcher at November 5, 2008 2:36 AM
Comment #269487

What are you going to do?

Hell, maybe he will pay my mortgage. I hope you guys were right, but I know my purse strings closed shut tonight.

Posted by: andy at November 5, 2008 2:40 AM
Comment #269488

As an active duty member of the USAF, it’s not a good feeling knowing my Commander and Chief has very little, if any, foreign policy experience or military experience.

I returned home after McCain’s concession speech. Imagine a room of about 100 people, all active duty, and not one happy face. We are all very disappointed.

Bush was bad because he lacked experience and was not ready to lead.

Obama has the same lack of experience that Bush had in 2000. All the arguments I’ve heard for Obama are based on “feelings.” I don’t vote based on feelings. I vote based on a person’s history. Obama does not have much of a history. Obama does not have experience.

People voting based on feelings does not make sense to me.

Ron Paul was the only candidate that made any sense in this campaign.

Posted by: Senior Airman (E-4) at November 5, 2008 3:14 AM
Comment #269489

Thank You!

Posted by: Klaus at November 5, 2008 5:08 AM
Comment #269490

Senior Airman (E-4)
The problem with Bush wasn’t that he had little military experience. There are plenty of inexperienced or relatively inexperienced presidents who ran wars. The trick was Bush’s unwillingness to listen to advice from those who knew what they were talking about. Obama seems the type to listen.

Our new President may not have experience in all things, but he’s not going to be like the last president in his stubbornness.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 5, 2008 6:44 AM
Comment #269491

wow! this is the first time in a while since I feel so very proud to be an American…! and Obama is not black —-he is bi-racial——such a fitting combination for a man who wants to and I believe will, unify our country along all lines….racially, spiritually, ethnically, etc.

amazing—the whole world is celebrating and learning and hopeful for the world. Maybe we can now live by the policy of diplomacy and connection and world wide cooperation and not might is right, our way or the highway, etc.

He is a visionary….a big picture President, who sees the big picture and future and not just the details and here and now. He is inclusive and sees how decisions affect lots of people, not just his base. and his “base”? pretty much everyone……………I cannot wait to see his cabinet…please, lets keep him safe….wow

Posted by: judye at November 5, 2008 7:13 AM
Comment #269492


The Mighty Eagle sits on his perch, bloodied and wounded viewing the battlefield below.

A battle of epic proportions concluded.

Many of his comdraes fallen, he remains proud.

The battle was a forgone conclusion going in. Outnumbered, underfinancied and unmotivated, the forces of the right were beaten badly.

The Forces of Change had thrown their treasury into the fight and their leader, a brilliant campaigner had cobbled together an unbeatable force was now celebration a historic and profound victory.

As he views the modern-day Cannae and lift off his perch to seek nurishment and health, the Mighty Eagle remembers that all on that battlefield are heroes…all Americans fighting over their concept of what this great nation should be.

“We will support the president” he thinks to himself. “We are Americans”

He will still be viligant…writing and defending his country against all who threaten it, but will cast a wary eye at the New Leader….

“Show me”, he thinks to himself…”Show me you are what you said you’d be”….

Posted by: sicilian eagle at November 5, 2008 7:23 AM
Comment #269496

He already has shown me, Big Bird. What a country!

Posted by: ray at November 5, 2008 8:29 AM
Comment #269498

Let’s hope this paradigsm shift leads to better times. Let’s hope that Obama doesn’t have a 9/11 to deal with early in his presidency. Let’s hope that there isn’t a huge natural disaster like Katrina. Let’s hope that the dollar stays health. Let’s home that the housing crisis,creedit crisis doesn’t hamstring him. Basicially, let’s hope for a better set of circumstances where we can judge him clearly. Me? I will have an open mind.

Posted by: sicilian eagle at November 5, 2008 8:46 AM
Comment #269504

Sic. Eagle, and if those hopes are not met, we have a far more capable person in the White House than these last 8 years. A person with intellect, the ability to think things through AFTER welcoming and demanding the best available intelligence and information. Consider what a chasmic difference that is between Bush and Obama.

The American people are either idiots to choose Obama in the midst of so many present and looming crises, or, they are to be trusted with democratic elections and applauded for having survived and learned from the Bush Administration, what it is they no longer want from, nor will tolerate from their leaders.

Americans were led to believe by the GOP marketing and advertising machines that they wanted a president they could have a beer with, someone like themselves. It was catastrophic.

I hope most Americans have learned they want someone better educated and better read, at the top of their graduating class in school and politics, to lead them in times of potential crisis, not a drinking buddy or plumber to be their nation’s leader.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 5, 2008 9:30 AM
Comment #269505

The MSM has already started…trying to separate us, and turn this into a contest…almost every guest and interviewee on TV today is a black person, and the questions and commentary is about the new BLACK president.

Please help me change that by writing to every piece of the MSM: remind them that at this time we need them to help bring us together, not separate us…we need unity right now more than anything, and as long as the talking heads can create controversy, we will never gain it.

They let us down, by not reporting the truth about the stupidity in Iraq until it was too late…it is time MSM shows it CAN be a good citizen…it CAN be a good American.

Posted by: Marysdude at November 5, 2008 9:34 AM
Comment #269508

Airman E-4, if you have any respect for Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, keep close his admonitions against electing generals to run government.

Civilian leaders, intelligent and learned enough to work with, and command the military in accordance with the best interests of the civil population and their nation, is who Eisenhower wanted in the oval office. Not a soldier conditioned and specialized in the military industrial complex to serve the needs of that complex, instead of tax paying civilians and their nation. If you have a plumbing leak, you call Joe the Plumber, not the President to fix it.

Conversely, if your nation has political or economic or foreign crises to manage, you don’t want Joe the Plumber or pilot GW Bush or McCain, nearly last in their class, to be your president.

We don’t want Joe the Plumber or a gunnery sergeant running this nation, nor a jet pilot nor General of logistics. They are not trained, experienced, nor qualified by their military experience or plumbing experience to govern from the People’s White House for all the people.

I made E-5 from E-1 in 3 years in the Army medical corps. That hardly qualifies me to be either a doctor or president. The military trains people to be military, even great leaders in the military. You wouldn’t send grunts to dance school for Basic Training, would you?

Neither should we send our commander’s in chief to military school as the prerequisite education to being commander in chief. Instead, our commander’s in chief will be far better suited to the oval office if they are educated and experienced in our universities’ courses in law, political science, history, philosophy, economics, and sociology.

If a military person distinguishes them self in the military, and then goes on to achieve the education and experience in politics, history, economics, and or law, then they are potential presidential material, but, not because they served in the military. That is a bonus for political marketing benefits, not a prerequisite sound leadership.

President’s without military experience have the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff to aid them in commanding the military objectives of our nation. What we don’t want is the Joint Chiefs of Staff commanding our economy, culture, and foreign relations. That leads to disaster as every military dictator in modern times and larger nations has learned too well.

A president decides many issues in a vast array of areas of expertise. So vast, in fact, that no single person could possibly become an expert in all those areas and still be young enough to run for president. Expertise in specific fields is not required. A person with demonstrated abilities to learn fast, familiar with law and history, and a working cursory knowledge of economics, as well as a talent for motivating and inspiring people to act in their own interests, is what is required of a competent president.

They will have access to all the expertise they could possibly want as president, if only they are intelligent enough to communicate with, and understand what the experts have to offer to aid them in their decisions.

Only in the Ideal world of Plato, can one aspire to leadership which is expert in all matters that may face our nation. In fact, if we found someone with such capacity, we would hopefully neither understand them nor elect them. We don’t elect gods. We elect presidents, humans, who hopefully recognize what they don’t know, and where to go to acquire what they don’t know, when they need it.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 5, 2008 9:49 AM
Comment #269512

Mighty Eagle,
You are a rare bird indeed. A right winger with class.

Posted by: Schwamp at November 5, 2008 9:58 AM
Comment #269515

Our long national nightmare is over! Can we please, please wait a solid three years before beginning the 2008 presidential campaign??

Congrats to Obama supporters near and far. Here’s to 4 years of good governance and conscientious policymaking.

Posted by: Chops at November 5, 2008 10:04 AM
Comment #269518

Thanks for your gracious concession. For my part, I’m the somewhat exhausted soldier among the carnage and wreckage, crouched on the battlefield, leaning on his sword. I know I’ll be heading home from the front, in the figurative sense, and that we’ve won in an overwhelming way, but still, I know this morning that I’m considerably different from when I became a political partisan.

I’ve always been something of a moderate liberal, with some convservative leanings, but going into Bush’s first term, It was just one of my interests, not a controlling one. 9/11 shook me from complacency, and Iraq and its leadup shook my assumption that those in charge either knew what they were doing, or wanted Americans to know either. That was what, in December of 2003, lead me to want to do more than just make occasional political comments on forums.

I always wanted what was best for the country; I wanted victory as long as it was possible, and the best managed withdrawal when it became obvious it was not. I did not support the surge and don’t think it really did what it was advertised to do, but when violence lessened, I did not mourn the reduction in violence.

It’s tempting to think that I can just get back to how I was before, but much of that has irreversibly changed. I’m now on record with more than four hundred something posts, many full length, divided between this site and Daily Kos. My life at home has changed considerably; I’ve gone from an undergraduate student to a person who works for a living. And you know what? I know things about government I once was clueless about, things about war that I never knew, and after years of doing this kind of thing (blogging), I’ve gone from being schooled in form to being experienced in practice. I’ve learned how to use both the light and the dark side of the force, rhetorically speaking, and though nowhere near a master, I am no longer just an apprentice.

But that said, I’m probably going to try and do other things than this more. The politics and the urge to become involved will never go away, and I’ll probably continue to blog here. But for now, I won’t have that nagging feeling telling me “Isn’t there something you’re supposed to be doing?” so much.

That, I suppose, will be what you feel now.

Let me, then, comment on the real lesson of this election for your side.

It should be obvious that the country’s gone somewhat center-left in its preferences, if you measure things on that spectrum. But if you look at things on a more basic, less symbolic level, the last two elections have been based on an urgent, pragmatic impulse on the part of the American people, just as much as a growing cultural divide between the mainstream culture and that of the Republican party.

The cultural divide, though, needn’t have been fatal to the Republicans. That, voters and politicians alike could have adapted to. What really killed your party is a sense among Americans that they couldn’t run the country or its affairs properly, and worse yet, wouldn’t admit it or change course.

People can accept a cultural conflict, as our freedoms enable us to live the lives we want, typically, despite our government’s leanings. That’s how Republicans maintained power even as culture grew less and less conservative.

What they find harder to accept is a government that doesn’t do what required of it, or what it’s told. The Bush Administration and the Congress that dominated goverment with it over the last two terms were bad at their jobs. Americans depended on them to do a number of things right, and they didn’t. Worse yet, these failures were in areas the Republicans were supposed to get right: War, the economy, moral uprightness, fiscal prudence. By failing at these, the Republicans relieved Americans of the sense that if they went for Democrats, they’d be choosing the second best choice.

Democrats will have to do better than the Republicans did, but so will the Republicans, and doubly so. Whether they choose to be more moderate or more partisan, they will have to put their noses to the grindstone and do their jobs better. Both sides have something to prove to the American people, and I hope both side bust their asses to get things done, and done right.

On every level, I believe, Americans have little cause to be complacent. I would submit that this election is a call to action across the board, not the solution to all the problem. I voted for Barack Obama just so all this change we need could even get started. Now he and everybody else have got to get the ball rolling.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 5, 2008 10:15 AM
Comment #269519

David R. Remer-
You got me thinking: In Plato’s time, one could perhaps aspire to know much of what could be known within the breadth of one life. Nowadays, though, our society is more complex by many orders of magnitude, and no one person could dare hope to know but a fraction of what needs to be known to make good judgments.

Leadership, as such, becomes a much more uncertain affair, and increasingly, today’s executives find themselves leaders of leaders by necessity. Specialization is necessary for greatest efficiency. Yet at the same time, good judgement across the board require cooperation and mutual understanding between such specialized fields, since the world leaks around and between such categories.

It’s become increasingly more important to bypass blind partisan argument, and embrace greater amounts of discussion and discourse. At the same time, though, a means must be created to facilitate positive, functional workable consensus building, and leaders must learn to verify the quality of their theories, not merely apply their agendas in reckless disregard of the consequences.

I really wouldn’t mind the candidates holding their horses either. You campaign for too long, and inevitably things lose their freshness.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 5, 2008 10:26 AM
Comment #269521

David R. Reemer and Stephen:

Cleary Obama is brilliant…far more intelligent that President Bush..of that there was never a dispute.

As I see it, the Republican Party, while not completely out. Here’s why:

1.The “way” Obama ran the campaign…primarily internet based and tech savy…is a leasson to be learned by the Right. The Republican National Party should start right now, today and get its act together with technology in preparation for the ‘10 elections.

2.McCain…a war hereo…was am “old” guy next to the handsome Barak. The Repubs need an infusion of “new” blood…and this includes Blacks, Hispanics, and Asains. The message needs to be changed. I kinda like the Governor of Louisania right now…young,smart,a minority. We needs legions of that type of a guy.

3. The “moderate” Republicans need to grow some and stop being pushed around by the evangicial right. They crapped out on McCain anyway. Let them earn their way back in.

4. Palin is not done. Four years is an eternity. I predict (remember,my predictions are usually wrong,but what the heck) that Stevens will get re-elected, but sooner or later will resign,and a special election will send Sarah baby to Washington. There,she will be an energy guru…whhich will solidify her creditianials in ‘12 as either a vp candidate again or an the Repub candidate. Me? I like Mitt and Sarah..two good looking candidates..or Rudy and Sarah…or someone young and Sarah…

5. Finally, the Republican need to focus short term….on going back to basics…and reclaim some of those red seats in ‘10 in Congress.

As I said, I am pulling for Barry…but mindful of the problems that await him.

Posted by: sicilian eagle at November 5, 2008 10:55 AM
Comment #269523

Rudy is done, SE. I doubt he will ever see elected office again. Perhaps he could be appointed something someday, but I think he ruined any chances with how he presented himself this year.

And lost in all of this, it is going to be interesting to see how the left exacts revenge on Lieberman. Will they follow the call for unity or will the excoriate him for speech at the convention and support of McCain? We already saw what they did to him for his support of the Iraq War…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 5, 2008 11:03 AM
Comment #269526
It should be obvious that the country’s gone somewhat center-left in its preferences

I don’t think that that statement is obvious or even true, based on what I see in the reasons for the election and how close it still was. This election could still have been won by the party of Bush if McCain had run a better campaign and the hiccup of the Dow a few weeks ago hadn’t happened. That’s pretty telling in my view, as to how many people were just voting for something different, not FOR something different, if that makes sense. I think that much like post 9/11 we saw a very short window of ‘unity’ that went away the first time someone did something major, so will be the same with this president. Within a few months there will be something that he will propose or work to implement that will end the honeymoon and without anyone else to blame or run against (Bush will be retired at his ranch) it won’t be easy to brush off. Remember Carter, who was not very successful in similar circumstances or Clinton, who was moreso but by being more conservative than liberal.

I don’t think the story has been written yet, just a chapter.

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 5, 2008 11:11 AM
Comment #269527

Stephen D., it is precisely this specialization of knowledge into discrete groups of ‘experts’ that poses the greatest challenge for democracies in which the electorate is not asked, nor expected to be, educated broadly enough to vest their vote in a candidate on the basis of empirically verifiable shared understanding.

To put it succinctly, voting is an act of faith in ever greater degrees as the government grows ever larger with departments of experts who make decisions based on their limited field of expertise, which increasingly are at odds with, and if enacted work at cross purposes with, the decisions of other departments of experts.

The EPA and Treasury departments will often find their decisions and recommendations at cross purposes and in contradiction to each other. It is all well and good to have a ‘great decider’ in the position to adopt one or the other recommendations or parts of each. But, how does an electorate efficiently choose the best person for that job as the ‘great decider’ when their own areas of expertise and knowledge are so dramatically inadequate to even comprehend the challenges being faced?

This is a horrible form of government, this democracy, we have invented here, despite its being the best of any other on the face of the earth. Is there any hope that America can lead the world to a simpler future? One which we the people and our leaders can be hope to be competent in managing?

That for me, is the great philosophical question of the 21st century, and which we are nowhere close to being able to answer with any empirical evidence to support it. The complexity of a global economy alone is sufficient to overwhelm the experts erecting this tower of Babel.

I hope that Obama is the right person for this time and set of challenges facing us. I voted for him based on that hope. But, I must confess to an uneasiness about the adequacy of his, or any person’s, education and experience in being able to put together a holistic course of action for the next decade that demonstrates its effectiveness in such overwhelming ways as to be continuously applied until significant improvements and a healthier future are secured.

If our electorate vacillates between left and right ideology and their subsequent divergent swings in applied solutions every 8 to 16 years, we cannot possibly hope to successfully apply a consistent problem solving approach to ever reap the rewards of the efforts.

And the airwaves and internet this very morning are full of those already planning on how to undo the Obama and Democratic solutions to be applied these next 4 to 8 years. This is truly the most fundamental flaw and weakness of our democratic republic and democracies around the globe, in this ever increasingly complex and infinitely growing interdependent web of existence supported by global interests competing for dominance over, and even elimination of, competitors.

Given infinite time, there is no limit to human intelligence and creativity. But, given the limits of time, and challenges with event horizon self-destruct components inherent, the question of whether human intelligence can match the demands of these challenges in the time allowed, is fundamentally relevant, and poses the greatest challenge of all to answer.

The world and humanity need some fundamental rules for managing such a future; rules which are enforced without exception, lest humanity fall from its tower of Babel, incapable of adhering to a common language that allows shared perception of the challenges and solutions necessary to maintaining the tower, let alone building it precariously even higher.

Terrorism as a political tool is one such fundamental rule of prohibition that humanity must undertake if it is to preserve the integrity of its global interdependence. Are we up to that challenge of enforcing such a rule? Did you notice Russia’s absence of congratulations to Obama regarding his election?

This is but one example. Bush, as I type, is slashing and burning environmental protections on his way out of office by executive orders which will be enormously difficult for Obama to undo and enormously time consuming of the next Congress to overturn, when the Congress already has a plate of challenges overflowing.

Can such actions be permitted without sabotaging our best efforts to keep it all together and stay ahead of the challenges life throws at us? Authoritarians would say yes, if we become vastly more authoritarian. And there’s the quintessential crux of the problem we as a democracy face.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 5, 2008 11:13 AM
Comment #269531

Sic. Eagle said: “The Republican National Party should start right now, today and get its act together with technology in preparation for the ‘10 elections.”

I just don’t see that happening. Reason? The GOP has first to fight the civil war created between the Palin evangelical wing of its party and the educated fiscal and governmental conservative wing of its party. The GOP is no longer big enough to house both those camps without war between them in the selection of candidates going forward. The lack of unity that war spells, precludes the GOP, to use your words, “get its act together”.

If the GOP can eject the Palin camp from its ranks and leadership, then the GOP could recreate itself to fill the bill of the electorate’s demand for pragmatism in meeting the challenges left unfulfilled by Democrats.

But, as long as Republicans are fighting each other and the electorate on ideological grounds, they will not be able to mount a successful challenge to the Demcoratic Party going forward, UNLESS, the Democrats commit Party suicide by abandoning their new found desire for pragmatism to addressing the nation’s challenges, led by Barack Obama’s approach to success.

Do you see another way for a synergistic cooperative approach between fiscal and foreign policy conservatives and the Palin camp of the GOP? I don’t, and am all ears.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 5, 2008 11:23 AM
Comment #269532

The US actually did something that was on the cutting edge of liberty. We did something no other western country has done. Other countries have had woman leaders (Thatcher & Merkel among others) but no western country has elected an ethnic minority to the presidency. He may turn out to be a horrible president - no one knows though I suspect he will be much better than the current occupant and better than his opponent would have been. I don’t think that is the point - we broke a barrier that has been up since 1776 and broke it decisively. The US presidency is no longer an old, white guys club and that is a good thing. Obama has an incredibly tough job ahead of him.

I was profoundly disappointed in California for voting for Proposition 8. Their constitution has been tainted by prejudice, bigotry, and oppression of people because of something that they can’t change about themselves nor should they want to. Constitutional amendments should be about expanding people’s rights not removing them. C’mon CA, someone getting married can’t possibly do a single thing to your marriage, or to the institution of marriage, or turn straight people gay, or cause the end of civilization as we know it. It would only allow people to live their lives as they see fit.

Posted by: tcsned at November 5, 2008 11:24 AM
Comment #269535

1) Agreed. But keep in mind something: grassroots methods don’t work without grassroots enthusiasm.

2) Agreed. But you’ll have to run that by your base again.

3) You need actual moderate Republicans, though. The base needs to learn its lesson: nothing gets done without the center on your side. What you need are people who know what they’re doing, who can lead and manage well, and who are willing to sacrifice the party’s agenda when necessary to remain in touch with the center.

4) Palin might not be done, but is she really the basket people want to put their eggs in? At the end of the day, she’s a product of the Gingrich revolution, rather than the breath of fresh air people within the party think her to be.

Also, I think the Alaska Independence Party is going to haunt her steps in any national election.

5) I think it was a focus on the political short term that sunk the Republicans. They ignored trends, underestimated the length of people’s memory for their previous positions, and got outsmarted trying to win every news cycle.

Undoubtedly, some seats will go back your way. the question is getting them to stay. The Republicans emphasized ideologically loyalty, and got a bunch of people more concerned about fulfilling agendas than governing. They need to emphasize knowledge and philosophical depth. They need people who can compromise without being doormats. Democrats spent much longer in the wilderness than they had to because too many of their people failed to stand up for their views enough to give the party its spiritual and political strength back.

Lieberman? I think with Lieberman, folks are going to finish the job they started in 2006 four years from now. He’s pretty much cut off now.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 5, 2008 11:32 AM
Comment #269537

I congratulate Mr. Obama and his supporters in winning, with a clear majority, in this election. Now the work begins as Mr. Obama will find it was much easier to win an election than to lead a nation.

Many factors were involved in this victory, and not the least of these was that each individual supporter imagined that their issues and interests would be addressed by this new administration. Soon the reality will sink in that no president or administration can be all things to all people.

Difficult choices are ahead for Mr. Obama and after a brief honeymoon period he will have to show the beginning of results on many fronts. I wish him and the country well.

My work as a conservative will continue undiminished and with renewed effort comforted with the knowledge that the majority of Americans are neither in the far left or far right camp. If Mr. Obama is to be successful he must govern from the middle which will be a huge disappointment to many who voted with their displaced passion rather than their mind.

Posted by: Jim M at November 5, 2008 11:40 AM
Comment #269539

Exactly Stephen,The Gringrich Congress started to weed out the center many good capable folks from new york and other rust belt states.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at November 5, 2008 11:45 AM
Comment #269540

Let’s all wish Obama the best of luck. He’s going to need it. Winning only means the opportunity is available, and there is great potential to be successful. Obviously, Obama will walk into a horrible mess, especially with the economy. It’s a deep hole, and it will take a long time to climb out. As The Onion put it,
“Black Man Given Nation’s Worst Job.”

The final tally is still not in. The popular vote appears low, as Rhinehold points out in his article in the middle column, and that seems odd. Did Republicans not bother to vote? That story will fill in during the coming days. The popular vote was certainly decisive, with large margins in the popular vote & electoral colleg, but I don’t think it could be called a landslide. My predictions were a little overly optimistic, but at least in the right ballpark.

The House looks like a gain of 20 or so for the Democrats, which is on the low end of expectations, but still decisive. More importantly, the Democrats gained in the Senate. They stand at 56, with four races to be decided. I’m guessing they’ll end up with 58. It’s not filibuster proof, but it’s certainly close enough for most legislation. The GOP strategy of obstruction and filibustering did not pay off. Will McConnell et al really want to continue down that road? Not likely.

The GOP will need to find a way of mending fences between the social conservatives and corporatists. Romney, Huckabee, and Palin seem like very poor choices for pulling the party together. A better choice would be Petraeus, but he would have to leave the military and run for office, in order to get some experience with the domestic side of things. Whether he has the inclination remains to be seen. In addition, Obama will probably keep him around as a way of keeping any political ambitions in check. The governor in LA might have something to offer too, once he has more experience.

Iraq has been a disaster for the GOP, as has their handling of the economy. In order to avoid becoming a regional party, they’ll need to find ways to attract the young, latinos, blacks, and other minorities. They’ve lost a generation over Iraq, and alienated minorities with their stances on immigration and other issues.

Posted by: phx8 at November 5, 2008 11:45 AM
Comment #269541

I join those on here who have become close because of ideas…and ideals, and because of our common commitment in doing our part to bring about change.
Thanks to those whose desires weren’t met last night, but have the courtesy and fairness to acknowledge our feelings of success.
This will all take some time for the zealous celebrations to subside and “business as usual” to continue. Except…’s not ever going to be “business as usual” for a whole lot of people, ever again. If any of you are not tolerant of different heredity, or color, or religious preference, you will find more and more reason to find issue with what has taken place.
We have finally put behind us those days of designated drinking fountains, seating, and school attendance…..Selma, and etc. We’ve actually joined the rest of the world in accepting diversity.
All of that said, I believe we have many good things in store for us, I can’t wait for us to be able to start seeing them.
dude, I think our desires and demands in the recent past, for the MSM to become more involved have been answered, and when the newness of last night’s results calm down a bit, so will the exuberance of the press.

Posted by: janedoe at November 5, 2008 11:47 AM
Comment #269543

Jim M said: “Now the work begins as Mr. Obama will find it was much easier to win an election than to lead a nation.”

Yes, Jim M, we know folks with similar perspectives will work their hearts out to insure the Obama administration and this country fails over the next 4 years as a means of attempting to create a path back to power for themselves. How very unAmerican and unPatriotic of them.

But, you were wrong about this election. And I suspect you will be wrong about Obama’s chances of succeeding in cleaning up the GOP’s mess created here and overseas. He will have the cooperation of the majority of Americans and where there is a majority will and goal in America, success is possible.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 5, 2008 11:52 AM
Comment #269544

phx8, your call was right on, and calmed me many times through the last few weeks.. ;)
Adrienne (aka VV), it’s good to see you again in your true identity! Check your old email and see how long ago I became wise to you ;)

Posted by: janedoe at November 5, 2008 11:53 AM
Comment #269545

Jim M,

As usual, you speak of the far left as if it is the left, as if it is the only left, as if it is wrong to be left because if we are left we are FAR left. Not all of Republicans are evangelical squirrels, although sometimes it seems like it…not all left leaners are left wingers either…

Posted by: Marysdude at November 5, 2008 12:04 PM
Comment #269549

David R. Reemer

You know,David, as we get older,we tend to mellow a bit. I think that Palin has that certian style,that pananche, that is necessary in politics.

Now, she has to pull her politics to the center a bit…as Obama did.

I think as the years pass,and gets experience, she may be a worthwile candidate. This I know: energy is not going away as an issue in 4 or 8 years,and her knowledge on the subject will get better, not worse.That alone will make her an asset down the line to someone. If I was advising her, I would tell her to get her passport out and travel the world and see what’s out there.

As far as fiscal policies: Unless we can get over this credit issue, we all are in trouble,liberals and conservatives alike. As you know, there will be a honeymoon with barry, but going into ‘09,if credit default swaps and the like continue to kill the marketplace,the honeymoon will pass…and quickly.


I agree with you about Rudy. Mitt Romney is another asset that is under utilized. I wonder what the outcome would have been with him as McCain’s economy guy on the ticket. Had the market crashed prior to the convention,the outcome would have (maybe) been different since the economy was the number 1 issue,and Mitt could point to successes in private business, Massachusetts,and the Olympices as examples of practical experience.

As far an Bush goes, I blame him for certain things…but not everything. As we can all agree (I think),certain situations are byond the powers of the presidency.

Thanks to him (now this will really piss off you,Stephen,David, Adrienne,marysdude,phx8,and Adrienne) I think the experienced terror leadership in the field is evvicerated thanks to Bush, and the new guys are so busy hiding that they can’t re-group. Like the Iraq army shortly after it was formed, there is no longer mid-level experience at the Al Quada level on the front lines. Give Bush his due here,at least on this one point.

Posted by: sicilian eagle at November 5, 2008 12:44 PM
Comment #269550

It’s not surprising that both Remer and marysdude bring their own inaccurate interpretation to my remarks.

Remer wrote; “Yes, Jim M, we know folks with similar perspectives will work their hearts out to insure the Obama administration and this country fails…” in response to my absolutely truthful statement that winning an election is much easier than leading a nation. Remer gets from point A to point Z by ignoring all the letters in between. Why would Remer believe that I want an Obama administration or this country to fail? I don’t! What I want to succeed in this country are the conservative values I hold dear. Did Remer read some kind of liberal or socialist victory in this election? That liberal Republicans were defeated is of no consequence to me as I don’t differentiate between liberal D’s and liberal R’s.

Conservatives didn’t have a horse in the presidential race. Many conservatives didn’t even vote as there were only two choices…bad and worse. Perhaps in 2012 the Republican Party will nominate a conservative and once again enjoy a truly landslide victory reminiscent of Reagan.

marysdude comments were difficult to understand but I think he said that there is a Heinz 57 variety of leftists. If my interpretation is correct…I agree. And within a year all these special and single interest factions will be tearing out each others throats.

Posted by: Jim M at November 5, 2008 12:46 PM
Comment #269552

Jim M Methinks you are wrong, and as usual have misread the electorate (and hence why the loss of the right)

The right THINKS people on the left want the govt to PROVIDE the answers
We only ask for the opportunity to address these issues, for ideas as to how to improve things, to help, to make things better.
Obama won because he held out the promise of HOPE, NOT ANSWERS, of a VISION, a direction, of an EFFORT to MOVE toward that vision.
If you listened to his speech last night you would have heard that he made no promises of success, only of the attempt, of listening, of including,
He cautioned about stumbles that will happen etc
i,e. he provided the most realistic presentation of what to expect.
and the people were behind him 100%
As long as he keeps his promise to try, to work for a better America for all, to address these challanges, and to allow us to help to contribute then we will not be disappointed.
No one expects a free ride
We are rolling up our sleeves and are ready to get our hands dirty in the new effort to restore American and its ideals to its TRUE standards
(and to shrug off the right wing cloak of fear and anger that has weighed us down for too long)

Posted by: Russ at November 5, 2008 12:49 PM
Comment #269553


Okay, some of the mid-level al Qaida are gone because of Cheney/Bush…in fact I remember the second and third in-commands being killed two or three or four or five…times??? I suspect it is because we invaded Iraq that all them mid-level terrorists are dead???

I try to always give credit where it is due…

Posted by: Marysdude at November 5, 2008 12:55 PM
Comment #269554

Jim M
If the true conservatives stayed home, then the numbers they represent will be insufficient to send a “true conservative” back to the Whitehouse.

A Reagan conservative will not (and should not) return to the white house
if you want a TRUE conservative that MIGHT have a chance, then try a Goldwater conservative — THAT would have a chance
He TRUELY believed in keeping the Govt out of our lives — not like the current crop (and even Reagan) who wants the gov’t looking the other way as Business rapes the country,(and the countryside) but wants the gov’t sticking their noses into our bedrooms churches and libraries.

Posted by: Russ at November 5, 2008 12:56 PM
Comment #269555

Give Bush his due
over 4,000 dead
countless 10s of thousands of innocents killed maimed, traumatized and their country in ruins
Afgahnistan going back to the Taliban

He is being given his due and none too soon
Can we get him evicted sooner than Jan 20th??
I wouldn’t mind opening up a nice Jail Cell for him and his henchmen (Cheney especially)

That person has nearly destroyed our country and you want to give him his “due” because he maybe got some of the henchemen (at HUGE COSTS and many years longer than it should have taken)
“Nice Job Bushy”??? (about as appropriate as the Katrina attaboy)
Give me a break
He was given a book entitled Osama wants to bomb the US — he ignores it and then plays the hero because he shed a tear at Ground Zero???
AND THEN his people claim it is Clinton’s fault for 9/11 because they claim CLINTON IGNORED Osama??????
and you want Bush given his DUE?????
You are definately on drugs dude.

Posted by: Russ at November 5, 2008 1:02 PM
Comment #269556

Russ, good luck with that dirtying your hands and rolling up of your sleeves tripe. To win an election against an old, moderate, out-spent Republican (not conservative) candidate running with the financial crisis hung around his neck and the MSM nearly unanimous in their support for the other guy is hardly a surprise.

The house and senate will be busy doling out the goodies, increasing our national debt, fighting for their socialist causes and bitterly fighting each other for their share of the election booty. As low as the congressional rating are now, I expect to see them even lower by 2010.

Posted by: Jim M at November 5, 2008 1:02 PM
Comment #269558


Your grasp on history is astounding. I also see how long ‘reaching across the aisle’ lasted. I’m not a Republican but your rhetoric (and that is what it is) even turns me off.

Good Job!

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 5, 2008 1:07 PM
Comment #269559

Jim M
and so it will come to pass
As long as you just want to sit back and watch as those idiots TRY to go back to business as usual, you will not be disappointed
Guess you have an interesting desire
Do you want the country to be better, do better and adress the problems?
Or do you want to be right about your prediction?
Is it more about you being “right” or about somehow fixing things?
“fighting for their socialist causes”
your comment would actually mean something if you actually knew the meaning of “socialist” instead of just lobbing it like a turd bomb.

So I take it we can not count on your support to actually work for your country??

It sounds like you are just willing to be an observer — too bad.

Posted by: Russ at November 5, 2008 1:07 PM
Comment #269561

Reaching across the aisle has nothing to do with Bush.

He is out, we will deal with those that are remain.

I have no interest in thinking about that person any longer, it was you who requested that those of us who have been raped by this guy “give him his due”
get real
and if You had a real interest in “reaching across the aisle” you would have let that sleeping dog lie.— but you just HAD to kick it didn’t you, and then act suprized when it rears up and bites back.
Give me a break
You will never be one of those interested in actually working to improve or fix this country — your posts on this list have continually proved that.

Posted by: Russ at November 5, 2008 1:11 PM
Comment #269564

apologies —
Rhinehold answered my response for you so I bit back at him.

We really do need to work together, but for the sake of the family do not bring up the “Drunk Uncle” — it is a dark past that we need to move forward and away from.
Do not ask those of us who still have the scars from the torture promoted by those people to offer an open hand just yet.
You may still feel he has some respect due, and you are free to feel so, just do not ask us to share in those feelings, they do not exist.
But it has nothing to do with a desire to find common ground and work together to fix this great country.

Posted by: Russ at November 5, 2008 1:27 PM
Comment #269565


Again, impressive grasp on reality. I never mentioned Bush until you did in response to someone else, yet label me with it. You say you are only reacting to Bush (overreacting and using rhetoric nonfactual statements, but what the hey) in the comment just after going after Jim for his views.

Your attitude, and others I have encountered here, are precisely what Obama was speaking out against all this time and it appears you never got the message. You spew hatred and partisanship talking points and have rarely gotten those comments right.

It is interesting to note that this comments section was devoid of that kind of vitriol until you commented. That was not a coincidence.

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 5, 2008 1:28 PM
Comment #269570

Jim M,

Obama had the financial crises hanging around HIS neck too…he just handled it better, and happened to be on the side that did NOT cause it to begin with…

MSM couldn’t find a side to be on with both hands…but, they were too embarrassed to run with as much muck as McCain’s campaign threw out…can you imagine, the main stream media embarrassed??? Even they who should be embarrassed at themselves, didn’t want to be tarnished with the same brush as McCain/Palin.

McCain’s finest hour was when he made his concession speech…he finally became a whole man again. I wish him well into the future, and will shift when typing his name from now on.

Posted by: Marysdude at November 5, 2008 2:01 PM
Comment #269571

To Conservatives Who Are Thinking About Tomorrow
A Commentary
By Tony Blankley

“Conservatism always has been and always will be a force to reckon with because it most closely approximates the reality of the human condition, based, as it is, on the cumulative judgment and experience of a people. It is the heir, not the apostate, to the accumulated wisdom, morality and faith of the people.

As a force in electoral politics in any given season, conservatism, like all ideas and causes, is hostage to the effectiveness of the party that carries its banner, the candidates and leaders who articulate its principles and programs, and the engagement and spirit of the people who are its natural adherents.

A dispassionate critique of the performance of each of those elements would have to conclude that the core of the conservative people — our natural adherents — were inflamed with both passion and knowledge of conservative principles. It was the party and the candidates, leaders and conspicuous advocates (with some honorable exceptions) who failed both in their visions and their performances a cause that yearned to be well-led.”

Posted by: Jim M at November 5, 2008 2:05 PM
Comment #269572

Thanks! There are still races to be determined & votes to be counted, but the outline is taking shape. Obama has made it clear, and Pelosi reinforced it, that he will need to govern from the middle. It’s the smart move. Sadly, there are more tough times ahead, and everyone knows it, and I think Obama has the sense to do his best to create a concensus for how to deal with the mess. Everyone is on the hook for the terrible financial shape of the country, and it’s going to mean doing some things that hurt, and not doing others that liberals want to see happen. I get that.

Hopefully Obama’s speaking and oratorical skills will unite and inspire enough to convince everyone to do what needs to be done. Hopefully his leadership skills will pay off. It’s just not possible to take office with a cratered budget and a ton of debt and people losing their jobs and expect lots of happy legislation.

Oh well. These are the times in which we live, and we’ll all just have to bear down and grit our teeth and try to get out of this mess as best we can.

Posted by: phx8 at November 5, 2008 2:08 PM
Comment #269574

Obama has given no indications that he plans to run a hard left agenda, quite the contrary. His words have all been about reconciling our differences and finding common ground. Granted, reality may set in and thwart his efforts. He isn’t talking like he has a mandate for such an agenda as Bush did after losing the popular vote and again after squeaking out a narrow majority. Dealing with Pelosi in the house might be the biggest obstacle to healing the partisan rift in this country. There are, however, going to be things on his agenda that the right will hate - i.e. health care and they will push back and get bowled over by the huge majority in the house and senate.

Posted by: tcsned at November 5, 2008 2:13 PM
Comment #269576

Speaking from across the Atlantic:

not being an American, I was obviously rooting for Obama and am happy he won. That said, I think McCain was a very reasonable and interesting candidate (I’m not at all convinced that his economic theories are flawed, btw, time will tell) and I can’t in good conscience say that it would have made a big difference to me who won. I do understand that US presidents get elected primarily on their domestic, not their international, agenda - and that’s the way it should be too, he/she is your president after all - but hey, I’m European and our political right is pretty much the same as your political left and we do lean on the US a fair bit in international affairs so what do you expect?

As an outsider’s reflection, though, I postulate that it was the addition of Palin that turned the outside world in favour of Obama. I have no way of telling to what extent this is true for US Voters but it might serve to explain why the rest of the world all of a sudden turned so decisively to the Democratic candidate. We - at least not the portion of us who are thinking - do not expect Barack Obama to work miracles, but we sleep just a little bit more soundly at night knowing that Sarah Palin is not a heart-beat away from the US Presidency. It’s possible, of course, that she has been misrepresented in the media - for certain, the way she dealt with Tina Fey´s satire showed some greatness of mind - but her values, I believe, are too “out there” for any European to be comfortable with.

At any rate, congratulations to Senator Obama as well as to Senator McCain for a battle well fought and carried to a very gracious conclusion. I hope you’ll (all of you - the entire wonderful United States of America) sweat this out and emerge better and stronger than before.

Posted by: malin at November 5, 2008 2:45 PM
Comment #269583

Marysdude -

I agree with you - in his concession speech McCain passed the test of humility and regained the honor he had lost in his quest to solidify the Republican base. I was glad to hear him, glad to be able to honestly consider him as an honorable man once more.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 5, 2008 3:16 PM
Comment #269589

McCain did give a gracious concession speech, agreed. Apparently Palin wanted to introduce him, and wanted to speak, but she was denied, and there was quite a little to do over it.

Apparently, provisional votes are not tabulated if an election is not contested. Up to 1/10 voters in some places were forced to cast provisional ballots. It’s an unusually large number, and explains the turnout in CO. Republican Secretary of States worked hard there to depress the vote, and levels in that state were below 2004, despite all the newly registered voters and huge turnouts for Obama, the convention, and so on.

Chambliss is up to no good in GA. Let’s see if the crooked bastard gets caught stealing the vote this time.

Posted by: phx8 at November 5, 2008 3:38 PM
Comment #269594

Jim M, said: “Why would Remer believe that I want an Obama administration or this country to fail? I don’t!”

I have to laugh out loud. I never said YOU, Jim M. I said people with similar perspectives. You chose to make that shoe fit you and dance around in it. If the shoe fits, wear it. You set your self in that camp, not I. Reread what I wrote, and you will see that I did not claim that you wanted to see Obama and the country fail.

But, you sure defended that group as if you were one of them. The shoe apparently fit. Too Funny!!!

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 5, 2008 4:05 PM
Comment #269596

I don’t want to see Obama fail, as it were, just any policies that come through that are not focused on individual liberty and freedom. We shall see what the administration or, more accurately, the congress offer up.

I would suggest to Republicans though that if I were them I would not filibuster anything other than the most outrageous bills that come through. If they do they are setting themselves up as the scapegoat for any perceived failures of the administration or congress, as we saw the last two years. Sit back and let them have their majority for two years, be vocal but not obstructive, and make it clear to the people that the failures or policies that are not acceptable to the citizens are coming from the Democrats, not the Republicans. And, offer clear and GOOD alternatives that respect individual liberty and freedom, don’t just say they were wrong, show how.

I have a feeling that they won’t take that advice, so 2010 may be a little ugly, IMO. I don’t think the reaching across the aisle is going to last long, Bush came in with the same story…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 5, 2008 4:15 PM
Comment #269601

Once again Remer is all about healing the rift in America. It is so refreshing to read his unifying words. Glad to give you a good laugh Remer.

Remer wrote; “I never said YOU, Jim M. I said people with similar perspectives.” He now would parse his words in pseudo Bill Clinton fashion. Let me try an experiment here. Remer has similar perspectives with socialists I know. How does that sound?

Posted by: Jim M at November 5, 2008 4:41 PM
Comment #269603

Rhinehold wrote; “I would suggest to Republicans though that if I were them I would not filibuster anything other than the most outrageous bills that come through.”

I disagree here and would suggest to Republicans that they filibuster every single bill containing state or corporate pork, increases taxes, provides for legalization of illegal aliens, diminishes heterosexual marriage, attempts to redistribute private wealth, and erodes our ability to combat our enemies among other things.

House and Senate conservatives from both parties should form a caucus to make very clear, with a united voice, to all American’s why they are against these bills and make their authors famous as McCain promised to do if elected.

Conservatism is alive and thriving in this country and only lacks forceful voices to promote it. Republican’s acting like Democrats is what is at the root of their election failures. Promoting core conservative values now, in the new congress, is a winning strategy for 2010, 2012 and beyond.

Make liberal democrats totally responsible for enacting legislation that will surly harm our economy and country. Collaborate with liberals in legislation designed to help all American’s.

Posted by: Jim M at November 5, 2008 5:03 PM
Comment #269604


I was profoundly disappointed in California for voting for Proposition 8.

It’s disgusting, and we should all stop calling it Prop 8, and call it what it really is: Prop Hate.

Their constitution has been tainted by prejudice, bigotry, and oppression of people because of something that they can’t change about themselves nor should they want to. Constitutional amendments should be about expanding people’s rights not removing them.

I agree 100%. But it’s important to remember that this fight is FAR from over. It’ll now be going to the courts — maybe even all the way to the Supreme Court.
Btw, it still hasn’t been officially called because there are between three to four million votes that still haven’t been tallied. In fact, I’ve heard that my own county of Alameda hasn’t been included in the final totals yet. Do you have any idea how many people support gay rights where I live? A pretty sizable majority, I’d venture to guess. Also, I heard that many areas in and around LA haven’t been included either, so many folks are not yet ready to say that Yes On Hate has definitely won at the moment. Even though the haters were so quick to begin declaring a victory with such an incredibly close margin, and without all the votes being officially tallied.
We’ll see.
But this issue is definitely far from over, because Progressives never give up, and eventually we prevail over all the haters and bigots of the world.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at November 5, 2008 5:12 PM
Comment #269605

Obama did away with THE democratic machine, Bill & Hillary. And did it without breaking a sweat. Obama made mincemeat out of McCain in all three debates. It sort of sounded like maybe McCain coulda almost won, but when you listened to what Obama was (calmly, quietly) saying, it became apparent that he had schooled the “old dog”. And the old dog could not learn any new tricks. Folks have underestimated Obama all along, and continue to do so.

I predict Obama will hit the ground running. From “day one”, so to speak. I predict he WILL actually govern from the center. I predict he will choose Republicans for high positions, NOT just his partisan associates.

And, something that I learned the hard way, especially in ‘04? Being AGAINST something or somebody is not nearly as powerful as being FOR something or somebody.

Posted by: steve miller at November 5, 2008 5:23 PM
Comment #269609

Congrats to BHO for winning the W.H. I just hope he is what all you Dems think he is. As far as me, he is going to have to earn my respect because of how little is actually known of the man.

Posted by: KAP at November 5, 2008 5:40 PM
Comment #269611

KAP wrote; “As far as me, he is going to have to earn my respect because of how little is actually known of the man.”

I would agree with KAP on this. We always respect the office of the president but the person holding that office must earn respect.

In other posts I have expressed my hope that Obama’s administration doesn’t become embroiled with ghosts of his past. There is much we don’t know about this man and the digging for dirt will only increase by the MSM and others looking for a good headline or for political purpose.

In times of peril we can’t afford to have Mr. Obama using his valuable time and efforts to answer questions or defend associations that should have been answered or defended in the election vetting. That they weren’t represents real danger to him and thus to us.

While I want nothing significant in his past covered up, I hope there is nothing there to detract him from his immense obligations.

Posted by: Jim M at November 5, 2008 6:00 PM
Comment #269614


If you don’t know him by now, you’ll probably go to your grave still scratching your head. Obama is an open book.

In order to reach across the aisle, all that is required is that he listen with an open mind…something he has done since his youth in Indonesia, as a growing youth in Hawaii, and as a student in college. He was still listening when he sat on boards with Ayers, when he tried to understand Kahlidi’s views on the middle-east. The last time you knew a president who listened to all perspectives was in the nineties. It ain’t hard to be conciliatory or to compromise, Obama has proven he is willing to do both. I think you’ve just gotten so used to Cheney/Bush, you attribute all their stubborn unwillingness to hear other’s views, you think all are like them.

Posted by: Marysdude at November 5, 2008 6:31 PM
Comment #269617

sicilian eagle posted something besides October surprise and I would like to respond to this one

3. The “moderate” Republicans need to grow some and stop being pushed around by the evangicial right. They crapped out on McCain anyway. Let them earn their way back in.

and if they where to do that — there is a good chance they will bring me and many other good folks back to them that do not want other peoples gods in their lives or government.
— Savage
as a side note — I am a lousy [lousy was loosy before checked] speller and would really advise a few folks here to try Firefox browser.
It has a great one built in.

It’s the end of the world as we know it.
It’s the end of the world as we know it.
It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

Posted by: A Savage at November 5, 2008 6:49 PM
Comment #269619

When I see what he does as president for more than just a couple of months then I will let YOU know if he has earned my respect. I don’t give a crap what he did in indonesia, Hawaii or as a student in college or on boards with Ayers, listening is one thing, what he does is another. I did not agree with Bush and many of his policys as I do not agree with some of BHO’s policys.

Posted by: KAP at November 5, 2008 6:56 PM
Comment #269620

I would just to go on record as saying that I am almost diametrically opposed to President Elect Obama’s philosophy and therefore policies. That being said, I pray that he will have the wisdom to make the correct decisions that will shape the country’s future. I hope that debates can return to policy and philosophy and that the word “impeachment” will be given a four year rest. I hope and pray that people will country above PARTY…..I hope and pray……

Posted by: submarinesforever at November 5, 2008 6:58 PM
Comment #269622

KAP, you say Obama hasn’t done anything yet and then in the same breath say you don’t agree with any of his policies. Any you wonder why the guys that talk like you didn’t get elected????

Posted by: ray at November 5, 2008 7:32 PM
Comment #269623

Campaign policies Ray campaign policies What he said in his campaign UNDERSTAND.

Posted by: KAP at November 5, 2008 7:38 PM
Comment #269624

Interesting — we have folks on the right that tell us that he said nothing in his campaign thus we do not know him — and they we have folks that say “Campaign policies Ray campaign policies What he said in his campaign UNDERSTAND.”

— I guess some people are never happy

Posted by: A Savage at November 5, 2008 7:49 PM
Comment #269626

I never said BHO hasn’t done anything. I do not live in Illinois so I cannot comment on what he did there. As far as his campaign, No I do not agree on some of his promises or policies what ever you want to call them. As I don’t agree with a lot of Bush’s policies or some of what McCain said and if some of you can’t understand that it’s no wonder an A HOLE like Murtha got reelected.

Posted by: KAP at November 5, 2008 8:06 PM
Comment #269629

It was easy to pridict this win for Obama and the Dems. It is their time. I did not necessary like it. And ignored TV and the web last night, was thinking of taking a break from reading blogs, political news, etc. Watchblog is part of my home page so I opened it tonight, hesitated before I clicked on this discussion.

And I am very glad I did. While I might not be happy. I like the points made her (that aren’t partisan BS and simple jabs) and the majority of the posts helped me understand what we need to do. We have a new president to support. I hope we all strive to support him as is deserved in our great country.

And a smaller part of me hopes that those half empty crowd on this blog are as critical of Obama and the Dems as they were of Bush and the Reps.

Congratulations! (cough, hack, guggle) Sorry, seriously!

Posted by: Honest at November 5, 2008 8:20 PM
Comment #269631

I did the same and watched a tear jerker [and hell I am a guy] Anne of Green Gables I watched it years ago with a bunch of teenage girl — pissing and moaning the whole time — but loved it — so I watched it last night and thought of happier times.

Posted by: A Savage at November 5, 2008 8:35 PM
Comment #269641

We’re having our time of celebration and relief right now, while it’s still new and just plain awesome! The hard work has already begun for our new President, and he seems intent on meeting the challenges head-on. Staff considerations, cabinet, and miscellaneous and sundry advisors are being worked out already. “Hitting the ground runnin” appears to be more than just a flip comment.
Adrienne, I think that I slept better last night than I have for a long time ;) Things just seemed to be right in the world and my fervent hopes are that they get only better in the time ahead of us. Have you seen the reactions coming in from all over the world???
Thank you, by the way, for your time and effort spent in the campaigning !

Posted by: janedoe at November 5, 2008 10:31 PM
Comment #269645

I would like to congratulate all of my blogging friends on this site who recognized and so vigilantly defended the genuine qualities and principles of President elect Obama over the last months of this long campaign.

I personally have been following Obama since his entrance into mainstream politics. From the beginning he left me with the feeling that here is a person who has convictions and strong principles, maintained by a true desire to do what is right and best for the future of all the occupants of this nation.

When he stood on the stage last night I saw a man who is obviously humbled by the task at hand. He did not gloat or promise the world. He did promise, as he has all along, that he will do his best to erase the partisan divides that obstruct a productive government. I can not emphasize enough how refreshing it is to me that we have a leader who is not focusing on tearing down conservatism in effort to build liberalism. Or vise verso. He recognizes that these labels do more to inhibit progress than perpetuate it. It is my hope that he continues to avoid the label and hate game. His campaign was an antithesis to that of McCain’s. He ran on substance and the belief that progress is possible in spite of old partisan hatreds. He effectively avoided the dividing qualities of those partisan biases. He did this because he truly recognizes that such tactics do little but inhibit progress. I think the ability to do that is what has endeared him so completely to those who admire him. People see, finally, a politician who is a caring, thoughtful, confident and compassionate person of intelligence who truly wishes to represent the needs of all. Not just the wishes of a few.

Once again, congratulations friends, lets hope that his ability to snatch a decisive victory aside from the usual partisan hate filled play book can carry over into a new style of accountable workable governance for all.

Posted by: RickIL at November 5, 2008 10:56 PM
Comment #269657

Just thinking about some other things being said about him being a black man, an African American, a man of color. Yet, he is only half that, his other half being white. So, I was trying to think how it must seem to a black man, looking at all that has taken place in these last months. At the same time, I’ve wondered what the white half of him has thought, while looking from inside the black half………………….

Posted by: janedoe at November 6, 2008 1:24 AM
Comment #269687

I didn’t stay up, did Obama thank ACORN for his win?

Posted by: Ron Brown at November 6, 2008 11:22 AM
Comment #269693

My predictions for conditions for the 2012 Presidential elections.
1. We’ll be in a depression that will make the on in the 1930’s look like an economic boom.
2. The national debt will be in the $50 trillion range and growing at around $100 billion a day.
3. Very few folks will have jobs because all the corporations have left the country to escape the unrealistically high tax burden put on them. And all the small businesses have be forced out of business for the same reason.
4. The personal income tax rate on those luck enough to have jobs will be around 80%.
5. The number of US citizens will be somewhere around 50 billion because all an illegal has to do is get in the country and they’re a citizen.
6. Thanks to national health care we won’t be able to get an aspirin without the approval of some bureaucrat up there in DC.
7. The only elective medical procedure anyone will be able to have is an abortion.
8. There will be only about 1 doctor for every 10,000 patients because of the red tape involved to get the government to pay up.
9. No one will own there own homes because no one can afford the payments.
10. Obama will loose worse than McGovern did in 1972.
11. Even the Democrats will miss George. :)
Yeah we got some real change coming all right.

Posted by: Ron Brown at November 6, 2008 11:51 AM
Comment #269696

Sometimes loss is a bitter pill to swallow, but I haven’t seen anything “out there” to indicate anyone considers there were illegalities THIS TIME. You have no idea what losing to lies, and fraud, and theft look like……twice.
ACORN has been pretty much vindicated Ron, but nice try. And maybe if you think it’s going to be such a horrible future for us, you could find some country where you could do much better. Maybe your own island where you could be your own President.
If I remember correctly, you weren’t enamored with either of the candidates, and your third party had no candidate with the strength to do anything but “spoil” the election.

Posted by: janedoe at November 6, 2008 12:20 PM
Comment #269698

Well, This is one Republican who can find the silver lining. You now have the Democrats in the White House, with a Majority in the Senate as well as the House of Representatives. No excuses….. get the job done…. oh, and I have another positive from this election. There should be no more talk about this being a racist nation. White people elected a Black President. That should end that debate.

Posted by: Ken at November 6, 2008 12:41 PM
Comment #269703

> There should be no more talk about this being a racist nation. White people elected a Black President. That should end that debate.
Posted by: Ken at November 6, 2008 12:41 PM


47% of the country voted against him. Many voted for religious or policy reasons, but a fair percentage of them did so because Obama is a black man…That’s still pretty scary. We still have some maturing to do as a nation.

If Obama does a good job…if he accomplishes even a few of his goals, perhaps that ‘percentage’ will grow smaller?

Posted by: Marysdude at November 6, 2008 12:59 PM
Comment #269705

Ron , Thank you for your Insight and optimistic analyses, I’m thinking he will take a more centrist pragmatic approach from the start were in one hell of a mess right now and raising huge amounts of taxes and going on a big business neck tie party and a national health care bigger in scope than social security won’t bowed well from the people IE Clinton 1994 and Daschle, I think his biggest obstacle might come from the speaker, the Dem’s in the senate will be more aligned .

Posted by: Rodney Brown at November 6, 2008 1:08 PM
Comment #269707

Mr. Brown: “I didn’t stay up, did Obama thank ACORN for his win?”

i realize that the next four years will be tough for you. But statements, like this one, illustrate a level of ignorance that was resoundingly rejected by most in the country.

Not only are you suggesting that ACORN was responsible for President Elect Obama’s victory but you’re also passively asserting that the voting systems within the country are also corrupt. For if your statement was true, you would be saying that all election boards throughout the land are also corrupt.

If you turned off FNC and thought about this for a moment, you would have realized that merely filling out and submitting the form does not instantly give you valid voting status. Of course, not even Sara the Governor would think something so ridiculous. No… filling out the form is only the beginning of the process. If you have any questions about what exactly happens when you fill out a voter registration form, i’m sure your local voter services office could help you. They probably would speak slowly so that you don’t miss anything either.

As an election official, who along with the many other dedicated election officials worked pretty hard on Nov 4th. We worked 18 hours non-stop to make sure that the election process went smoothly and without incident. So when you make baseless and inane statements asserting some level of corruption in the voting registration process i take offense your baseless assertion.

Or maybe not; maybe you’re the guy that thought writing in ‘Mickey Mouse’ as a write-in was funny too.

Posted by: john trevisani at November 6, 2008 1:17 PM
Comment #269711

Mr. Brown -

Care to list any fraudulent votes that were made due to ACORN?

Not fraudulent voter REGISTRATIONS (which ACORN, and NOT the Republicans or election commissions found and exposed), but fraudulent VOTES.

Take your time - I’ll wait for your reply.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 6, 2008 2:04 PM
Comment #269712

janedoe said: ACORN has been pretty much vindicated Ron,

Then why are they still investigating it?

Rodney Brown
I sure as hell hope your right and I’m wrong. But somehow I doubt it.
If anyone would’ve taken a non-partisan view of Obama’s campaign they’d have seen through his hype and seen the same old tax and spend that’s plagued the Democrats sense Roosevelt.

john trevisani
The last 50 years has been tough. There aint been but one halfway competent President in all that time.
And NO! I’m not the guy that thinks writing in Mickey Mouse is funny. The future of this country is more important than playing those kind of 3rd grade games at the voting booth.
But I don’t doubt that Mickey Mouse could most likely do a better job than Obama will, or any of the Presidents in my life time have done.

Posted by: Ron Brown at November 6, 2008 2:08 PM
Comment #269715

Can’t we all remember even for just a minute, that the half of Barack Obama that isn’t black….is white! So depending on where biases may lie, that has either been a bane for him…or a boon. And he has either been blessed, or cursed…again based on perception, with the dark skin.
I believe that this is such a phenomenal result that we’re all still reeling a bit from it. After the dust settles, then by all means continue with your own beliefs, based on political preference, and not prejudice.
Give the man a chance…he is already naming his choices for the staff and cabinet, beginning the transformation process. You just might be surprised, and if that happens by all means, enjoy the ride.

Posted by: janedoe at November 6, 2008 2:13 PM
Comment #269724

Mr. Brown -

YES, the Republicans will keep investigating ACORN…and just like the millions of dollars they wasted investigating Whitewater, they will find nothing of real consequence.

But that was never the purpose in investigating ACORN, was it? The PURPOSE was to throw the investigation in doubt, to try to make the general public think the Democrats were committing fraud on a grand scale…when it was in fact the Republicans who were committing voter suppression on a grand scale.

If you want to bring up your ‘facts’ and ‘evidence’ against ACORN, I’ll happily shoot it down…and then I will show you proven voter suppression of tens of thousands of eligible voters by the Republican party.

Game? Show me yours and I’ll show you mine! (facts and references, that is)

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 6, 2008 2:51 PM
Comment #269728

I don’t understand how Obama is the First Black President when he is half white and his father was Islamic. Most of us are just mutts.

Posted by: Rosa at November 6, 2008 3:46 PM
Comment #269729

Ron, 50 years come on! Eisenhower promoted a stable economy and balanced the budget three or four times out of eight, While he accepted the basic premise of the New Deal, his economic policy followed a moderate course. His two terms produced eight years of growth and relative prosperity. and no wars! Nearly every indicator of economic health — GNP, capital investments, personal savings and income — showed substantial upswings. Additionally, Eisenhower refused to further fuel the economy with politically popular tax cuts.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at November 6, 2008 3:47 PM
Comment #269731

Up to three days ago I was debating why McCain would be a better president. That argument is moot now. We have a new president. Congratulations to President Elect Obama.

I agree with those who want Obama to earn their respect, but I hope we don’t just sit back waiting for that to happen. Getting America back to better times isn’t just the president’s job. We should all want Obama to succeed in what he promised during his campaign. So we should all be working to see that happen, including bringing strong conservative perspectives to the table.

Posted by: Mark at November 6, 2008 4:09 PM
Comment #269758

The topic is pretty blank, perhaps appropriate for the blank slate presidency on which we are about to embark. I think that BHO’s supporters have an unrealistic view of the Senate’s willingness to follow his “leadership”. Last night, there was some consternation here over Rahm Emmanuel’s hesitation in accepting the position of COS, which he has apparently now accepted. IMO, there will be hesitation from a number of people concerned about their own careers, in getting too involved in a new administration stepping into W’s mess.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 6, 2008 6:59 PM
Comment #269759

Mark writes; “We should all want Obama to succeed in what he promised during his campaign. So we should all be working to see that happen, including bringing strong conservative perspectives to the table.”

What conservative perspectives do you think would be acceptable to the dems in congress Mark?

Nearly 1/2 of American’s don’t agree with Mr. Obama’s promises for the nation that involve huge new federal spending and creating another massive entitlement in national health care. Do you really expect these millions of voters to simply throw away their common sense and long-held values? These folks don’t believe Obama’s policies are good for the nation.

Posted by: Jim M at November 6, 2008 7:03 PM
Comment #269766

I should have been more specific. I mean the promise to be “everyone’s president” and to work across the aisle. I am not naive about the pressure he’ll have to govern from the left. And believe me, there is a lot I disagree with Obama on, which is exactly why I say Republicans can’t just sit back and watch.

Posted by: Mark at November 6, 2008 7:30 PM
Comment #269784

“Nearly 1/2 of American’s don’t agree with Mr. Obama’s promises for the nation that involve huge new federal spending and creating another massive entitlement in national health care. Do you really expect these millions of voters to simply throw away their common sense and long-held values? These folks don’t believe Obama’s policies are good for the nation.”
Kindly subtract from that # the people that vote right and always vote right on the freedom of choice issue alone. They no nothing about any one issues but the fact the left supports FREEDOM of choice.
I wonder what your % would be then? and the really sad,funny part is — They have never figured out the right has been playing them on that for years. If the people they have been voting in on that issues really cared they would have done more during bushes first 6 years.

Posted by: A Savage at November 6, 2008 8:57 PM
Comment #269799

Glenn Contrarian
I don’t know what the Republicans will or won’t investigate. But I wasn’t talking about them. I was talking about the states where the fraud has been committed. One of which BTW went for Obama. But then I reckon it’s only them nasty Republicans that ever do anything wrong aint it?**
Well one thing’s for sure, Obama will make sure ACRON aint investigated.
Funny, y’all spent the last 8 years accusing Bush of stealing elections without any proof. And expected the Republicans to take it. But when it’s y’alls guy being accused of it y’all want to get ya’lls noses bent out of shape. And it seems there’s a whole heap more proof with Obama than there ever was with Bush.

Well OK! 48 years. Sheesh gonna argue about a couple of years. :) :) :)

Posted by: Ron Brown at November 6, 2008 11:44 PM
Comment #269808

No Ron —Glenn asked you to put money where mouth is and point out where election fraud has been committed — And you come back with “And it seems there’s a whole heap more proof with Obama than there ever was with Bush”
well I claim the moon is made of blue cheese with whipped cream on top. But guess what —the fact I claim it does not make it so.
Ok now both parties had monitors at every polling place looking for fraud — None reported.
Ohio secretary of state Jennifer Brunner, said in a statement released to TPMmuckraker the night of the election: “We have received no reports of election irregularities in Ohio today - and we have been on the lookout for any hint of illegal voting or voter suppression.”
“And her counterpart in Minnesota, Mark Ritchie, told TPMmuckraker in an interview that his office had received no reports of voter fraud. “
And same can be said In every state that the right was pissing and moaning about acorn in.
Now please post proof of even a rumor of a state where fraud could have switched the results, just a wild national esquire rumor will do — because that`s all you will find.


Posted by: A Savage at November 7, 2008 12:42 AM
Comment #269811

Brown -

We HAVE proof of election fraud by the Republicans. Google ‘Spoonamore’ and see what you find. There’s LOTS more - but apparently it doesn’t matter HOW concrete the proof is, you’re going to deny it.

And it’s sorta hard for Obama to prevent JACK right now because he is NOT the president. The ONLY conspiracy about ACORN was the smoke-and-mirrors the Republicans fed you.

You talked the talk, but you can’t walk the walk. How about you investigate the list of Republican voter suppression and election fraud that I posted here.

And see if you can do any better than the other conservatives did at trying to refute me.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 7, 2008 1:48 AM
Comment #269814

Mark said: “So we should all be working to see that happen, including bringing strong conservative perspectives to the table.”

I agree, with the following caveat. Principle’s are no substitute for pramatism when it comes to solving problems. The goal here is to apply principles where they will contribute to the overall solution, and discarded if they won’t.

That is the difference between ideology and effective governing, neither of which have been practiced much in the last 8 years.

If conservative principles say cut taxes on business when business is suffering from lack of consumer demand, that principle makes NO DAMN SENSE, and is not applicable to the problem of addressing the deficit.

Exxon’s profits just hit another all time high, they are about to see their profits drop dramatically from those all time highs, due to drop in demand. If the government raises Exxon’s taxes, still allowing them to turn a profit, and uses those revenues to stimulate consumer demand, then raising taxes on Exxon is a good problem solver simply because the economy improves overall, the deficit is addressed to that extent, and Exxon’s profits are a wash, higher taxes but also higher consumer demand from the stimulus.

Conservative principles which say cutting taxes all the time in all economic scenarios is a must, is not a principle based on any kind of sound economic rationale. That is how Republicans doubled the national debt in 8 years.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 7, 2008 8:25 AM
Comment #269821

Hi - First - Congratulations to Mr. Obama ! He ran a very dedicated campaign. I was and am still a great fan of Hilary but switched political support to Mr. Obama in his quest for the White House. I am concerned about the media referring to him as African-American - isn’t that rather discriminatory? Did you refer to Mr. Bush as ___________/American? Granted, Mr. Obama is of African decent but he is also 1/2 of Caucausian decent. I think he should be referred to as an American. If every person in America referred to them selves as German/American, Polish/American, German-Jewish American etc etc,,,isn’t that a way of discriminating between groups and races and causing devision between Americans? We are all Americans by just living here - yes, we should be proud of our heritage, but let’s now stop with all the past and move into the future as AMERICANS working together for a common cause. Thank you for reading my message.

Posted by: Beverly at November 7, 2008 9:32 AM
Comment #269854

Glenn Contrarian
Just because some Democrats claims they were denied the right to vote don’t make it reality. And an article written by you won’t convince me.
I’m not saying that the Republicans aint pulled dirty tricks at the polls. They most likely did. I reckon that gives ACORN the right to sign up the same folks 70 times to vote like they did in at least one case in Ohio as far as y’all are concerned. And if they did it there how many other folks did they sign up 70 times and how many other place did they do it?
If Obama is as good a guy as y’all say he’d be demanding a complete investigation. But I heard a peep out of him.

A Savage
I don’t know anything Mark Richie, but as far as Jennifer Brunner(D)is concerned I wouldn’t trust anything she says. She refused to work with the county voter offices to see if there were any irregularities in voter registration. That makes it very suspect to me. Part of her job is to help oversee voter registration and she refused to do her job.

Posted by: Ron Brown at November 7, 2008 12:17 PM
Comment #269863

Here’s a brain-twister from Remer; “If the government raises Exxon’s taxes, still allowing them to turn a profit, and uses those revenues to stimulate consumer demand, then raising taxes on Exxon is a good problem solver simply because the economy improves overall, the deficit is addressed to that extent, and Exxon’s profits are a wash, higher taxes but also higher consumer demand from the stimulus.”

First…I would ask Remer from where government derives the power to decide upon; “allowing them to turn a profit?” Is that the purpose of government? Does that not imply they also have the power to not allow a company to turn a profit? Further, if raising taxes on Exxon is good for the country would it not be logical to say that raising taxes on all companies would be even better.

Remer also believes that government will use revenues from higher taxes to stimulate the economy. $700+ billion and the failed $160 billion stimulus package in the form of government checks to many Americans earlier has not prevented another 200,000 jobs from disappearing and retail sales to slump by huge percentages. Yeah…that’s working really well, just ask those who own equities or bonds who have seen their investment portfolios drop by 30% or more.

Increase the tax on Exxon (or any other business) and it always is passed on to the consumer (unless Remer is advocating price freezes). An extra $1 of tax on business sent to Washington will loose at least 20% of its value before it can stimulate the economy. So, 80 cents comes back to some consumers who may or may not use it to purchase oil products. And Remer…calls this a “wash” for Exxon! And finally…would Remer tell us how this addresses our deficit?

The creation of real jobs, not government “make-work” is what creates wealth and thriving economies. The creation of real jobs requires capital, individual initiative and work ethic, a profit motive, and a government willing to allow free enterprise without excessive or overbearing government regulation and taxation.

Just as the MMGW crowd believes we can tax our way to energy independence, Remer believes we can tax and spend our way to prosperity.

Posted by: Jim M at November 7, 2008 12:47 PM
Comment #269907

It was certainly an exciting election, and I’m glad that Obama has already taken some action with the site etc.

Posted by: Dave at November 7, 2008 5:31 PM
Comment #269909


I mostly agree with you with the caveat that pramatism is similar to pragmatism. I think what happened over the last eight years was exuberance without discipline. Even good principles, such as keeping taxes low, in a vacuum aren’t very useful. But the conservative movement was not founded on mindless cutting of taxes regardless of the situation.

Paul Krugman wrote the following about proponents of Keynesian economics, but I think it applies well to this discussion of conservative principles:

A great innovator is entitled to some poetic license. If his ideas are at first somewhat rough, if he exaggerates the discontinuity between his vision and what came before, no matter: Polish and perspective can come in due course. But inevitably there are those who follow the letter of the innovator’s ideas but misunderstand their spirit, who are more dogmatic in their radicalism than the orthodox were in their orthodoxy. And as ideas spread, they become increasingly simplistic – until what eventually becomes part of the public consciousness, part of what “everyone knows” is no more than a crude caricature of the original.

Just as the principle of keeping taxes high is a crude caricature of Keynesian economics, there are a lot of simplistic approaches to conservatism being passed off as Conservatism. Complete conservatism contains pragmatism. I think there will be a correction of this crude caricature over the next few years. And I hope President Obama will lead us away from the equally simplistic view of government in which you do as much as you possibly can when you’re in power before the other side can stop you. I see this being a difficult job for him in that even if he has the will, he’ll have to drag his own party kicking and screaming.

Collaboration is better than compromise, compromise is better than unilateralism. I hope President-Elect Obama learns that much from the Bush Administration.

Posted by: Mark at November 7, 2008 5:59 PM
Comment #269910

THE US voters rose above racial prejudice and voted to the White House as their 44th President a black man and thus made history. A country where slavery was once institutionalised and legalized, where even as late as in the 1960s blacks were still fighting for their civil and human rights, has now changed forever. Martin Luther King’s dream that there will be a day when people will be judged not by the colour of their skins but by the content of their character is now a reality.The people of the United States deserve to be congratulated for ending their long winter of discontent suffered under a White House in the hands of the neo-cons and letting sunshine back in by their historic effort to elect Senator Barak Obama as their President. Let President-elect Obama give a part of that sunshine to the rest of the world to enjoy for US’ long winter of discontent has also been theirs.

Posted by: Serajul Islam at November 7, 2008 6:02 PM
Comment #269916

Mr. Brown -

Of COURSE you won’t want to read an article written by me…and thus you won’t want to check the references I used. You don’t want to hear the other side of the story. Ain’t nuthin’ I could say’s gonna change your mind, ain’t no amount of EVIDENCE gonna make you think otherwise.

Go on ahead then, Mister Brown. When Fox News tells you all us Lib’rals and Democrats are evil, jus’ plain E-vil, eat it up like it’s goin’ out of style.

I do know this, though - someone who refuses to listen to the other side of the story, who refuses to look at the other side’s EVIDENCE…well, that individual’s got issues. Anyone who examines the evidence on BOTH sides will normally be TWICE as educated as the one who only checks ONE side of the story.

And if you’re wondering about my slippage into Southern colloquialisms, let’s just say I come by it rightfully.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at November 7, 2008 8:32 PM
Comment #269940

Glenn Contrarian
1. I don’t watch FOX News.
2. There aint no evidence except what y’all have made up.
3. I don’t have any evidence and don’t need any. Y’all set the presidence there. Y’all never had or even tried to offer any real evidence, so why should I?

Posted by: Ron Brown at November 7, 2008 11:46 PM
Comment #269941

Senior Airman (E-4)
Thank you for your service to our great country.
I just hope all y’all survive the next four years.

Posted by: Ron Brown at November 7, 2008 11:50 PM
Comment #269943

RonBrown, are you related to Oldguy??

Posted by: janedoe at November 8, 2008 1:08 AM
Comment #269976


“but a fair percentage of them did so because Obama is a black man…”

and your proof of this is where ?

Posted by: dbs at November 8, 2008 3:37 PM
Comment #270026

Mark, all well and good, except for one thing. Your definitions. Conservativism is what Conservatives do. The Republican Party is the bastion for conservatives.

The same argument must be applied to liberals. They are what they do.

Theory is meaningless unless put to pragmatic beneficial use. Both the liberals and conservatives in their respective parties have been mostly talk without any walk for decades now.

My Mom reminded me repeatedly while growing up, that I am what I do. Not what I say I am. Made my teen years very depressing, but, thereafter, that wisdom got easier to live by and assess others by. That wisdom enlisted me in the Army, and got me through college with a degree.

I voted for Obama because I hear in his words and demeanor, the same wisdom of my Mom’s. I truly hope he doesn’t disappoint. I remain confident for the time being, that he won’t. But that will mean some bitter fights and negotiations with his own party members. I think he may be the president who instead of saying he would rather improve the nation’s future than his own political future, actually does throw his presidency into jeopardy for the sake of the nation’s future, by taking on those in his own party who will be putting their political futures ahead of the nations.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 9, 2008 4:24 PM
Comment #270035

Very funny! I liked that piece. Enough said, indeed. At least for now. Funnier still, is my interest, now (and it’s only temporary) in what the Right is saying about this historic election.

Posted by: Kim-Sue at November 9, 2008 8:52 PM
Comment #270418


I hope you’re right.

Posted by: Mark at November 16, 2008 2:52 AM
Comment #273955

Your speech sounded very inportant to me and my whole family.You will be the greatest president in the history of of a new era.My whole family voted for you.The parade was beautiful.I wish to be a presibent one day but I’m only 8 years old.I like the girls with the pretty dresses that were in the parade.

Posted by: Nusrat Mahajabin at January 20, 2009 8:04 PM
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