Democrats & Liberals Archives

Barack Obama: Elitism or the Condemnation of Intellect?

Anyone who has attempted to keep stride with the ever morphing events, within and between the presidential campaigns, has by now become acquainted with such keywords and phrases as, “earmarks, energy independence,” and “reform.” Additionally, another phrase has become a staple within mostly conservative circles and used as a rhetorical weapon against the opposition- “elitism.”


During this remarkable U.S. election season, talking points, laced with politically jargoned rhetoric, have entered our ears and appeared before our eyes- thanks to the reporting of today's numerous media sources and user blogs.

Anyone who has attempted to keep stride with the ever morphing events, within and between the presidential campaigns, has by now become acquainted with such keywords and phrases as, "earmarks, energy independence," and "reform." Additionally, another phrase has become a staple within mostly conservative circles and used as a rhetorical weapon against the opposition- "elitism."

For the record, a rough definition of a person who embodies elitism is one who believes that he or she is of superior distinction and thus entitled to be treated and considered favorably.

Specifically, elitism is the word that has been pinned to the backside of Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama. And that pesky little tail has been left to dangle in the minds of voters.

However, this election will not make the first time that many conservative politicians, and citizens alike, have labeled their more liberal counterparts as "elite." Although ironically, it was Hillary Clinton who first pegged Barack Obama as "elite," following a speech in San Francisco where he referred to people living in rural America as, "bitter, and clinging to guns and religion."


The Full Quote:


"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate, and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter. They cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
- Barack Obama - 4/6/08

It is obvious to understand why many Americans felt incensed by the above speech. On the surface, it appeared to be judgmental and divisive. However, is it possible that some Americans were upset by Obama's remark because it hit too close to home?

Art Imitates Life - when in doubt, expound with a movie reference...

Entertainment notwithstanding, all we would need to do is watch the biographical movie, "Boys Don't Cry," to witness art imitating life. "Reel" life: where intolerant and disenfranchised communities, such as Richardson County, Nebraska, depicted in the movie, do exist. Of course, the movie in question is an extreme example, perhaps even a controversial one when used in this context, but still relevant. If you have not seen the movie, you will most likely, not "get" the reference. My apologies.

Moving forward...

Barack Obama has been called a rockstar, a snob, and most outrageously, "The Messiah." Such accusations stem from Obama's education, to his capacious and reflective oratory style, and popularity.

In May, John McCain urged Barack Obama to take a trip with him to Iraq. The objective would have been for McCain to prove to Obama that U.S. efforts have helped to stabilize Iraq. Obama declined the invitation, but in July, took a trip of his own to several countries in the Middle East, (including Iraq), and Europe.

Due to his popularity overseas, Barack Obama was notably depicted as the "biggest celebrity in the world," by the McCain campaign. The message was relayed in an ad that aired after his trip to Europe, where he delivered a speech before a crowd of 200,000, in Berlin, Germany.

In August, while Barack Obama and family were on vacation in Hawaii, the RNC sent copies of what was called the "Barack Obama's Hawaii Travel Guide," to reporters. In the mock travel guide, a spotlight was focused on the Punahou School, the college preparatory institution that Obama attended in his youth. Conclusions were drawn, indicating that the RNC lampooned Obama's education in its parody travel guide.

On a side note, Barack Obama attended the aforementioned college preparatory school from grade 5, until he graduated from high school. As a young adult, he attended Columbia and Harvard Law School, where he rose to be president of The Harvard Law Review.

Undoubtedly, the life of Barack Obama represents a classic case of the ever romanticized "American Dream," no?

We should be comfortable asserting that most every American who was raised by responsible parents, regardless of class, was encouraged to study and do well in school. We should be willing to further assert that those same American children were also encouraged to attend college with goals of absorbing the relevant academia necessary for achieving their personal "American Dream."

If we are honest with ourselves and subscribe to the above, we will fail to understand how conservatives, the RNC, some of our personal acquaintances, as well as our fellow late-night message board warriors have come to the conclusion that Barack Obama is indeed, an "elitist."

Many Republicans and conservatives have reveled in the pick of Sarah Palin, Vice Presidential Candidate on the Republican ticket. Numerous reasons account for the support Palin has received from conservatives and the GOP. One reason Sarah Palin admirers give to explain their support for her is her "everyday people" appeal. These voters prefer the simple talk of Sarah Palin and John McCain to the poignant speech of Barack Obama- which is of course, their choice. However, much of the McCain/Palin supporters' beliefs travel beyond the realm of preference- many of those supporters actually appear to condemn the intellect of Barack Obama. This is evident with such statements as, "He (Obama) has so much to say but I just can't be bothered to try to understand it." Or, "He (Obama) can't just say what he needs to without blathering about." These are actual quotes from everyday people, said with contempt.

Since when has being a highly educated person become something to look down upon in America?

Is it because some of us feel inferior when faced with the apparent intellect of others?

How will this attitude affect how our children view education?

Curiously, a contour of conservative values is self-reliant independence, yet many conservatives demonize education- a fundamental vessel for success in America. How sad and unfortunate it is that so many would rather elevate their egos with the illusion of "relating" to their "neighborly-like" presidential pick, instead of embracing a fine product of education- Barack Obama.

Should Republicans and conservatives support Barack Obama for president? No. They should also cease insulting their own personal intellect and patriotism by condemning a genuine manifestation of the "American Dream," which is Barack Obama.

Posted by Tiffani Martin at October 22, 2008 3:00 AM
Comments
Comment #267864

Well stated. The anti-intellectual pandering of the modern Republican Party undermines our ability to compete in an increasingly competitive world.

Posted by: Rich at October 22, 2008 7:37 AM
Comment #267867

Tiffani

A well written article. I don’t believe that the GOP actually believes that Obama is elitist or that intellect is indication of faulty character. I think most voters know this. McCain has no new direction beyond the old Bush road to offer. His party is considered to be largely responsible for the current state of this nation. It is my opinion that McCain like Bush is required to stay in line with GOP tactics. It is that very strategy of not straying from the pack that is bogging McCain down. Anyone who is paying attention at all has to see that attacking our problems with the same tactics that created them is pointless and would be nothing more than a wasteful extension of current times. The result of McCains inability to pursue new direction leaves him no avenue other than pandering to those who are easily influenced by the power of suggestion. The good thing is, it does not appear to be working with a very large amount of the voting populace. These are serious times and people are much more aware than past elections. Most people are not stupid, perhaps not as informed as they should be, but they are quite capable of seeing through the deceptive smear tactics of the GOP.

Posted by: RickIL at October 22, 2008 8:45 AM
Comment #267870

Welcome to Watchblog Tiffani - excellent article. I have been dumbfounded by these charges that being brilliant and getting a really good education is a bad thing while we look up to people who finish in the middle of their class (as W did) or at the bottom (as mccain did) as being “just like us, someone we can relate to.” That’s a really dumb way to select a president. I don’t want to have a beer with my president or have him/her over for a cookout. I want him/her to be able to understand and handle tough, complicated issues. Having a likable person is a plus but not a requirement.

The GOP has been headed towards an “idiocracy” over the last decade and while it got them a 2-term president the long term damage they have done by filling the White House and Congressional seats with these people of middling intellect at best has lead to a pretty poorly managed country. Most of us, at one time or another, have worked for someone who’s son has been given a position of power and used it to drive their father’s business into a ditch - that is what the GOP has given us. We Dems have given the country Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, two sharp minded individuals, one who was an excellent executive (albeit with some personal baggage) the other has demonstrated unflappable temperament and reasoned decision making. The GOP should start thinking about finding their “A” students to lead them into the next election cycle and get rid of the George W. Bush’s, George Allen’s, amd Michelle Bachman’s of the world. Where are the George Will’s and why doesn’t the GOP elect smart folks like him?

Posted by: tcsned at October 22, 2008 10:09 AM
Comment #267878

I am smart but personally I want my president to be smarter than me. I find this whole avenue distasteful. The only way for the GOP to win is to disinfrancise voters and to get people to vote against their own best interests. The GOP being the party of the wealthy can’t win if middle american’s see them for what they are worth so it pays for the GOP to discourage education and intellegence. It helps them if people don’t think or educate themselves. If they can keep people voting based on a single issue or two such as guns, abortion, taxes, war then American’s will vote not based on educating themselves regarding who really will put food on the table, improve education, increase jobs. Demeaning education and intelligence means people will look to vote for the person most like them someone they would like to have at their kitchen table or would like to have a beer with. Later only to find that the person at the kitchen table or downing a beer at the local pub isn’t as nice as they initially thought that surprise, surprise maybe it was all an act.

This isn’t to say that some people in the republican party aren’t educated and smart and have put much thought into how they will or won’t vote but they don’t win the elections for the republicans it is the democrats who switched parties after desegragation, the religious right who vote based on a religious ideology that requires compliance without thinking for one self, the fearful who vote their fear of anyone or anything different from themselves, the hatefilled-people who see themselves as victims of a gov’t that helps everyone but them. The only way to counteract this type of behavior is to encourage education, encourage intellectualism, encourage freedom of thought.

Posted by: Carolina at October 22, 2008 11:24 AM
Comment #267879

I definitely want my president and vice president to be voracious knowledge hoarders, armed to the teeth with facts and the quick mind to accurately recall them on any given moment. Knowledge is power, but we cannot afford to miss the opportunity to give power to knowledge, knowledge in this case being Barack Obama.

Posted by: treehugger at October 22, 2008 11:40 AM
Comment #267882

You guys are in a state of denial.
liberal policies, not lack of “intelligence,” are why people don’t vote for liberals.
For some reason, millions and millions of Americans don’t like others, who have no clue, telling them whats in “their own best interests” and dictating how they live.
IF, you want their votes, stop questioning their intelligence and start respecting their beliefs.

They see Obama as a danger because of what he stands for and believes, not because of what school he attended.

Posted by: kctim at October 22, 2008 11:56 AM
Comment #267884

kctim — McCain is in trouble because of what he aparently stands for today and what he believes. Obama is ahead for the exact same reason. There is a sea change happening in america, thats not denial, thats observation.

Posted by: treehuger at October 22, 2008 12:06 PM
Comment #267888

Tree
None of that has anything to do with why Republicans see liberals as elitist. The denial part is blaming others “intellect” instead of ones own policies.

I totally agree about the change that is happening. We have been going from a nation of freedom to a nation of dependents for a while now and it is very apparent that we have crossed the half-way point and now have more of those who would rather be dependent than free.

Posted by: kctim at October 22, 2008 12:13 PM
Comment #267889

Tiffani,

This is one of many attempts at restating an accusation that conservatives represent a new Know-Nothing Party. It is simply not true. One can’t massage calling conservatives stupid without it being obvious you’re calling us stupid.

In example after example the qualifications of conservatives to make value judgements about whom their government officials should be are called into question, the most recent example being Joe Wurzebacher, the notorious “Joe the Plumber”, who has been condemned for every little infraction he may or may not have committed, and then black-balled, to shut him up. What is elitist about this is not an attitude toward education. It is the elite demand that conservatives and, by extention anyone who has less than an Ivy-League education, show they are qualified to exercize their Constitutionally guaranteed right to hold their office-holders to account.

Barak Obama works for us, even if he wins the office he seeks, and it matters not a whit how educated a voting adult is whether or not that is so.

Posted by: Lee Jamison at October 22, 2008 12:15 PM
Comment #267895

tiffani

“It is obvious to understand why many Americans felt incensed by the above speech. On the surface, it appeared to be judgmental and divisive. However, is it possible that some Americans were upset by Obama’s remark because it hit too close to home?”


when obama said they clinged to god and guns, it was an insult, and an insunuation that thier way of life was nothing more than an excuse for a lack of opportunity in thier communities. they don’t “CLING” to thier way of life. this is who they are, and thier way of life is not some sickness brought on by some socail ill. this is where obama got it dead wrong. they may be bitter for lack of opportunity where they live, but thier culture, and way of life are not diseases to be cured by the almighty messiah barrack obama. many jobs that were once held by americans have been taken by illegal immigrants. check the construction sites in your area. they are not the only ones hostile over illegal immigration a lot of people are. with many jobs being outsourced, and illegals taking the blue collar jobs that aren’t, there are a lot of people that are pissed. not just people in rural america.

Posted by: dbs at October 22, 2008 1:13 PM
Comment #267896

Welcome Tiffani !
There isn’t much to add to what you’ve already spoken. “We” here on this side have made so much fun of the current President that we just finally ran out of things to say. His level of intelligence was so disappointing when it followed Bill Clinton, coupled with the way he got into the position, that he was absolutely fodder for ridicule. How great it will be with someone leading us that can once again command respect and have things to say that will reclaim the attention of the rest of the world. Why do people fear intelligence, and what possible harm can it do? It has to be insecurity like in many other phobias.

How will this attitude affect how our children view education?

Our children need redirection already…when they are being crowded out of colleges and university by “third world” contenders…whose education is superior.
It’s not only time for this all to happen…..but way past time.


Posted by: janedoe at October 22, 2008 1:17 PM
Comment #267898

fodder for ridicule

That’s a good line by janedoe. It goes well with;

“Biden’s erratic and gaffetastic behavior is the least of America’s worries. He’s worse than a blunderbuss. He’s an incurable narcissist with chronic diarrhea of the mouth. He’s a phony and a pretender who fashions himself a foreign policy expert, constitutional scholar and worldly wise man. He’s a man who can’t control his impulses.”

Excerpt from; http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2008/10/22/the_increasingly_erratic,_super-gaffetastic_joe_biden?page=1

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 1:53 PM
Comment #267900

It’s nice to see the end of this gang of four season that has been flourishing since the wagon train master himself engineered it.

Posted by: googlumpugus at October 22, 2008 1:54 PM
Comment #267901

Cute Jim M…keep flailing around for something that actually has some truth and substance to it.
You guys are so used to the bullying tactics that have served you (well) all these years…

Posted by: janedoe at October 22, 2008 2:13 PM
Comment #267902

Some liberals accuse conservatives of being elitists with regard to our nation’s health care citing the equality and fairness of the national health care systems of Canada and Europe.

“We have health care problems in the U.S. but it’s not because ours is a free market system of health care delivery. Well over 50 percent of all health care expenditures are made by government. Where government spends, government regulates. It’s truly amazing that Americans who are dissatisfied with the current level of socialized medicine in the U.S. are asking for more of what created the problem in the first place. Anyone thinking that an American version of socialized health care will differ from that found in Canada, Britain, Sweden, France and elsewhere are whistling Dixie.”

Walter Williams writes; “Currently, 750,000 Brits are awaiting hospital admission. Britain’s National Health Services hopes to achieve an 18-week maximum wait from general practitioner to treatment, including all diagnostic tests, by the end of 2008. The delay in health care services is not only inconvenient, it’s deadly. Both in Britain and Canada, many patients with diseases that are curable at the time of diagnosis become incurable by the time of treatment or patients become too weak for the surgical procedure. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown plans to introduce a “constitution” setting out the rights and responsibilities of its health care system. According to a report in the Telegraph (02/01/2008), “What this (Gordon Brown’s plan) seems to amount to in practice are the Government’s rights to refuse treatment, and the patient’s responsibilities to live up to what the state decides are model standards.” That means people who have unhealthy habits such as smoking, heart sufferers who are obese or those who fall ill because of failure to take regular exercise might be refused medical care, even though they pay taxes to support government health care.”

“The Vancouver, British Columbia-based Fraser Institute’s annual publication, “Waiting Your Turn,” reports that Canada’s median waiting times from a patient’s referral by a general practitioner to treatment by a specialist, depending on the procedure, averages from five to 40 weeks. The wait for diagnostics, such as MRI or CT, ranges between four and 28 weeks.”

For the full article go here; http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2008/10/22/affordable_health_care

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 2:18 PM
Comment #267903

janedoe; which of the quotes in the article are you saying are untrue?

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 2:20 PM
Comment #267904

If anyone thinks that the GOP isn’t in the midst of an anti-intellectual movement then you are in denial. I am not saying that everyone in the GOP or all of its supporters are stupid but when your party leader and two-tern president is George W. Bush and the heir apparent to the party is Sarah Palin it says a lot about the direction of the party. There are plenty of people who support these Republicans that are perfectly intelligent people. I understand the tough choice between supporting someone who might be a little thick but is ideologically aligned with you over a possibly more intelligent person from the other party. I have the same issue with my local congressman, Rick Boucher, who isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. Fortunately for the local Democratic party the GOP has run people who are much worse. Defend Palin and Bush if you want but you don’t need me to point out there shortcomings. I voted for John Warner consistently because my party never ran anyone against him that was his match intellectually or had his integrity. George Allen, on the other hand is a moron and I would have voted for Alfred E. Newman before Allen.

The problem with a lot of my conservative friends (I don’t know you personally Lee so I will not include you in this) is that they can’t bring themselves to admit the obvious - that Palin is incompetent but they support the ticket because they think that having someone that is on their side of the issues more so than a more intelligent person from the opposing party. I think it all comes down to where you draw the line that a candidate is just too ignorant to vote for. Palin has done this to several prominent Republicans in Colin Powell and Ken Adelman who said, “That decision showed appalling lack of judgement. Not only is Sarah Palin not close to being acceptable in high office - I would not have hired her for even a mid-level post in the arms control agency. Choosing the Alaska governor “contradicted” Mr McCain’s two main campaign themes - “Country First and experience counts.”

I don’t think painting all conservatives, all Bush supporters, even all Palin supporters as morons is either true nor helpful. There are people that need to be called out for being stupid among these supporters. I would include anyone who thinks Barack Obama is a Muslim, people who cannot reconcile their faith with scientific fact, and/or people who believe every word out of Rush Limbaugh’s mouth. These people need to be called out for being stupid or else they will continue through life in ignorance. In fact I think we owe it too these people to point it out so they at least can have an opportunity to educate themselves. More importantly, well read, intelligent members of their own party owe it to all of us to perform this service since they are more likely to listen to one of you than one of us.

Posted by: tcsned at October 22, 2008 2:22 PM
Comment #267905

Jim M

don’t you know, it’s not fair to confuse people with the truth.

Posted by: dbs at October 22, 2008 2:29 PM
Comment #267907

janedoe, I would be interested in your interpretation of the following quoted outrageous statement by the elitist Mr. Biden.

“Back in 1964, Lyndon Johnson and his hatchet man Bill Moyers made the infamous “Daisy” ad charging Barry Goldwater would cause a nuclear war, and it became a massive media story. Reportedly the ad ran only once, and yet everyone came to know about it, thanks to the press. In 1976 and again in 1980, the Democrats worked overtime suggesting the election of Ronald Reagan would trigger a military calamity, so much so that in their 1980 debate, Reagan joked that Jimmy Carter was cartooning him as a “mad bomber.” The media couldn’t get enough of that narrative, either.

So what happens when a vice-presidential candidate makes the gaffe to end all gaffes and declares that his own running mate will trigger an international crisis? In the Year of The One, it’s yet another controversy that is virtually ignored by a national press corps that has become an institutional embarrassment.

In the latest of a long string of verbal fiascoes neglected by the Obama infomercial narrators, aka the national “news” media, Sen. Joe Biden told a fundraiser in San Francisco on Saturday, “Mark my words. Within the next, first six months of this administration, if we win, they’re going to — we’re going to face a major international challenge. Because they’re going to want to test him, just like they did young John Kennedy. They’re going to want to test him.”

The next day he did it — again! This time in Seattle he declared, “Mark my words. Mark my words. It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking Remember I said it standing here, if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

What do you suppose would be the reaction had this statement been made by Sarah Palin about John McCain? Never mind that within minutes that soundbite would appear in Obama campaign ads coast-to-coast. It would also, and quite correctly, be the top news story of the day. Look at the record.

Front-page story in the New York Times? Try page A-18. Above-the-fold in the Washington Post? Try a tiny paragraph on page A-4.”
http://townhall.com/columnists/BrentBozellIII/2008/10/22/joe_the_bumbler?page=1

Let’s see if my memory is correct…isn’t it the Republicans who are “fear mongers”? Does it make liberals all “tingly” in the legs to know their guy might get the chance exercise the CIC role in a new war?

My guess is if Obama should become CIC, many in the military will retire, many will not reenlist, and many more will not enlist. Who would wish to serve with this neophyte who only wishes to talk to the enemy, not defeat them. I for one would not trust this friend of Mr. Ayers to cover my back.

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 2:43 PM
Comment #267909

tcsned writes; “These people need to be called out for being stupid or else they will continue through life in ignorance.”

Certainly nothing elitists here. Perhaps tcsned can apply for a position in the new “thought” and “morality” enforcement arm of the new cabinet level position being contemplated by Obama’s liberal supporters as he seems to have already identified those in need of “reeducation”.

Reminiscent of Mao’s “little Red Book” perhaps the Obama Public Relations people can print up his thoughts in a “little Blue Book” that can serve as a bible for the stupid ones to wave.

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 2:58 PM
Comment #267910

“Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice”

Ladies and Gentlemen I give you the rant of a dangerous radical.

How about, “Extremism in the defense of Islam is no vice?”

Posted by: googlumpugus at October 22, 2008 3:04 PM
Comment #267912

Jim M,

Nothing Unamerican about that is there, Jim?

Posted by: googlumpugus at October 22, 2008 3:06 PM
Comment #267913

“Mark my words. Within the next, first six months of this administration, if we win, they’re going to — we’re going to face a major international challenge. Because they’re going to want to test him, just like they did young John Kennedy. They’re going to want to test him.”
So what is your Point? Kennedy Did a Wonderful Job.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at October 22, 2008 3:06 PM
Comment #267915

Sorry goog, I am not a mind reader, what are you referring to?

Mea Culpa Rodney, I didn’t know Biden’s purpose was to praise Kennedy, I thought he was fear mongering.

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 3:21 PM
Comment #267916

I would agree with Biden’s statement is puzzling as to why he felt he needed to say that but I have heard the comment criticized on every major news network - I don’t know about Faux News but I’m assuming those bozos are having a field day with it. It is well known that Biden is prone to continue talking until he gets himself into trouble. I don’t see how this statement is fear mongering at all. He is talking about his own ticket. If that’s what you are insinuating Jim, please explain how that is fear mongering.

As to the mass exodus from the military - I doubt it, they didn’t all bail out when Clinton was CIC even tough he was painted as a draft dodger as opposed to the current occupant of the White House. If nothing else I predict enlistment and retention to be up. Not only are we more likely to be out of Iraq much sooner and less likely to get involved in another stupid war, but 8 years of GOP stewardship over the economy has left retiring military personnel with few private sector options.

Jim - anyone who believes that Obama is a Muslim is a moron, sorry. It’s not elitist to point out that it is stupid especially since the same people criticize him for his Christian preacher. Anyone who believes the earth is 6,000 years old and humans and dinosaurs interacted is woefully ignorant of some basic facts and is choosing not to learn the truth. These people are more defensible as religion has a strong pull that can overcome critical thinking. Anyone who believes everything that comes out of Rush Limbaugh’s mouth is also a moron. Sorry again but true. If that makes me an elitist so be it, I’d rather be labeled an elitist than a moron any day.

Wikipedia defines elitist: is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite — a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.

Thanks for the compliment.

I am not going to waste my time trying to convince these people otherwise since you shouldn’t try to teach a pig to sing it wastes your time and annoys the pig - with or without lipstick.

Posted by: tcsned at October 22, 2008 3:25 PM
Comment #267918

Thanks tcsned, Webster’s describes it much more succinctly as being a snob.

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 4:04 PM
Comment #267920

Jim - You take your definition and I’ll take mine.

Posted by: tcsned at October 22, 2008 4:19 PM
Comment #267921

Rodney,

The point is, while it worked out well that time, I’ve heard we dodged a one-in-three chance of all dying. Do that enough times and, eventually, someone has a bad day.

Posted by: Lee Jamison at October 22, 2008 4:26 PM
Comment #267922

Jim m, In the scheme of all things do I consider what Biden said to be Earth Shattering Not Really, Just Look around Were in a recession the stock market tanked again and can you tell me when was the last time we saw such extremes as we have with Inflation and deflation as we have in the last 8 years, I could go on and on you can ascribe to your Beliefs I will Certainly ascribe to mine.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at October 22, 2008 4:29 PM
Comment #267924

You’re in full attack mode today in here Jim M. Is there something you don’t like about being on the other end of right?
You insist on repeating Biden’s statement to say that “Obama’s success will trigger an attack”. Now you can spin the words, argue that you’re not using semantics all you want, but you have changed the words in his statement, to suit your own needs.

“Mark my words. It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America.” he told a fundraising crowd in the Pacific Northwest on Sunday. “Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

You obviously feel the need to add your own words to the comment. There is nothing there to indicate terrorism or attack or life endangering. It’s just more of the attempt to move back to the ‘control by fear’ tactics that your party used for far too long. So typical!!
It’s interesting to watch as the polls change and McCain’s numbers drop, your comments get more intense.


Posted by: janedoe at October 22, 2008 4:38 PM
Comment #267926

I think Biden at least understands the job description of VP and has actually read the Constitution as opposed the the GOP VP candidate.

Jim M - call me a snob, elitist, whatever. I and most people like me had to work our butts off to get an education. Swinging a 16 pound sledge hammer all day in the hot sun, rain, and freezing cold while getting my BA; then managing a small business, teaching freshman history classes, and working nights as a musician while getting my 2 masters degrees and working on my doctorate. Putting in 60-80 hours a week all through school. Barack Obama was no silver spoon either like McCain was. Some of us value a good education and we value intellectual capacity as well as knowledge. Maybe the GOP wouldn’t about to be wiped out of government had they spent a little more time with the books, a little less listening to Rush Limbaugh, and learned about competent stewardship of our country instead of what we got in the last 8 years. The Dems won’t have to do much more than show up to work to top their performance.

Posted by: tcsned at October 22, 2008 4:56 PM
Comment #267927

Speaking of elitists - The GOP spent $150,000 of your donations on dresses, hair, and makeup for Sarah Palin. Makes John Edwards’ $400 haircut that the right wing talkers went on and on about look pretty trivial.

Posted by: tcsned at October 22, 2008 5:01 PM
Comment #267929

Actually janedoe, the quote came from the link I provided and were not my words. Perhaps I can find a way to make this more clear in the future.

From your quote of Biden, “Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.” it’s not clear exactly what Biden is referring to and he won’t or can’t explain.

Logically janedoe, since we are already experiencing a credit and financial crises which is leading to companies closing and worker layoffs I don’t believe he is referring to the present situation, but rather a new one.

We all understand that Mr. Biden, is his senate position, is privy to information that he may not reveal due to its “secret” and “classified” nature. That’s fine and is as it should be.

My interpretation of his statement, since he can’t clarify it, is that he has been briefed on a potential crisis coming from some enemy of the U.S. And, if you have heard or read the entirety of his comments he said something to the effect that the decisions that will be made by an Obama administration will not be popular, even within his own party and supporters. Thus, he asked his audience to have faith and confidence that Obama and he were doing the right thing.

janedoe, when a long-time sitting senator and potential VP of the U.S. talks openly about an impending crisis for this country, cautions his supporters not to loose faith and continue their support…it makes me somewhat uneasy and yes…even worried.

If his statement was just “fear mongering” I would rest easier. What do you believe his intention was and what was meant by his statement?

Does this make you uneasy?

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 5:08 PM
Comment #267931

Hi Tiffani

Welcome to Watchblog. The Mighty Eagle disagrees with just about all you have said.

Here’s what I know with not one sintilla of doubt:

Barry couldn’t get a security clearance if his life depended on it.

Think about that: The Commander In Chief and he can’t get a security clearance.

Geez.

Have we been conned by this guy.

Have you seen the polls lately? Have you seen the way the polls are being cooked?

Have you seen the latest PEW survey about the 2,600 negative articles written by McCain by the media…far dwarfing Barry’s?

How about Joe Biden..with 33 years in the Senate…wanting to cut Iraq in 3? Two years ago I launched that idea here partly in jest and was blasted by the lefties here. After 2 seconds, I thought the idea dumb too.

How about THAT guy as CIC?

Geez.

I don’t know…”spread the wealth”..socialism….Many Americans didn’t sign on for that.

Here is my prediction. Said the same in 2000 when Gore had a 6 point lead about this time too:

McCain will steal it.

You heard it here first…a WB Exclusive ,sure to be picked up by Russ, Bill and Sean.

I bet John learned a lot about bare knuckled politics along the way…he’s a fighter, you know..and I betcha the American people are catching on.

You’ll see. :)

Posted by: sicilian eagle at October 22, 2008 5:17 PM
Comment #267935

SE, there is no doubt the polling is showing a tightening race. And, Biden being a loose cannon about a new crisis within six months will only help McCain. Of course, that’s the reason his somewhat perplexing statement is not being widely reported.

Look for an attempt by the Obama operatives to muzzle Biden as he could very well snatch defeat from what many consider to be a settled election.

Posted by: Jim M at October 22, 2008 5:41 PM
Comment #267936

SE

you need to drop in more. things are always more interesting when you’re here. i hope you’re right about mc cain. kinda have that feeling myself, but you just never know.

Posted by: dbs at October 22, 2008 5:55 PM
Comment #267937


If not for dumb people, who would empower the liberal and conservative elitists?

Posted by: jlw at October 22, 2008 6:03 PM
Comment #267942

THE PERFECT STORM FOR A DEPRESSION …
A far left Media …
A far left President …
A far left Congress …
A far left Senate …
eliminates all the checks and
balances that our democracy is based upon.
A vote for Obama is a vote for voter fraud,
a corrupt media, and the road to Socialism.
God Help Us !!!

Posted by: Howard at October 22, 2008 7:09 PM
Comment #267944

Tiffani,
Thank you for the article!

Jim M, SE
Dream on. The polling, for whatever it is worth, shows independents and undecideds breaking for Obama. Polls show an Obama lead of anywhere from 4% to low double digits. Polling averages show Obama with a 7 point lead. The electoral map is strongly skewed towards Obama, and the Democrats also have an overwhelming advantage with money. The GOP is playing defense, withdrawing from many states, and pinning its hopes on winning PA, which shows a large lead for Obama.

It’s going to be a landslide.

Good luck with the continued character attacks. The charge of socialism is silly. The entire financial sector has already been quasi-nationalized, with the federal government guaranteeing commercial paper and money market funds, and buying equity in banks. It’s enough to keep the credit markets flowing- for now- but it fails to address the underlying problem with an enormous derivatives market that went bust, and the underlying fundamentals of sinking real estate prices and massive lay-offs.

The financial gurus are guessing this will be a steep recession lasting twice as long as an ordinary one. Depression is still a very real possibility.

Iraq’s a bust too. The SoFA agreement has failed, and political reconciliation is as far away as ever. At least the al-Maliki government and Obama agree on the need for a withdrawal date. It was originally set for 12/31/2011, but that was only to make Bush happy. A withdrawal by 2010 is more likely.

Howard,
Cheer up! The horrendous performance of Bush and a Republican congress will cause immense suffering for years to come, and make it difficult for Democrats to do much, other than to try to stop the bleeding.

Posted by: phx8 at October 22, 2008 7:30 PM
Comment #267950

Mighty Eagle - How do you figure that Obama couldn’t get a security clearance? If you think that the minor contact he had with Bill Ayers would deny him a clearance it would not. From what I understand the security clearance form asks this:
Are you now or have you ever been a member of any foreign or domestic organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons which is totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive; or which has adopted or shows a policy advocating or approving the commission of force or violence to deny other persons their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or which seems [sic] to alter the form of government of the United States by unconstitutional means?

There is no “are you a passing acquaintance of someone who belonged to one of these groups?” or has your pastor ever said “g*d d**n America” in church. I asked a my father who was a director of counterintelligence for a government agency and he said that from everything he has heard there is nothing that would even make it on the form other than past drug use. He added Sarah Palin would have more trouble with her husband belonging to a secessionist party but even that probably wouldn’t disqualify her.

If the press has written more negative articles about mccain it might be that he is running a dishonorable campaign accusing his opponent of such ridiculous things as supporting teaching comprehensive s*x education to 1st graders, associating with terrorists, being the anti-christ … Obama has been critical of mccain but not nearly at the “lower than a snake’s belly” level the mccain/PALIN campaign has been.

Oh yeah, I forgot he’s an anti-American socialist. Speaking of socialists - Sarah Palin is more of a socialist than any of the Dems. As Gov. of Alaska, she taxes the oil companies and writes checks to the citizens of the state that is actual socialism not talking about raising taxes for people making over $250k a year.

Posted by: tcsned at October 22, 2008 7:54 PM
Comment #267952

Welcome Tiffani,
You said-
“It is obvious to understand why many Americans felt incensed by the above speech. On the surface, it appeared to be judgmental and divisive. However, is it possible that some Americans were upset by Obama’s remark because it hit too close to home?”

The remarks are an accurate reflection of the facts, however the small portion of the actual conversation that you posted does make it easy for those wanting to find fault, such as dbs, to twist and manipulate the meaning and intentions of his words. When the whole statement Obama spoke is read it is obvious that he was not insulting anyone’s way of life. He was responding to a specific question advising supporters who would be canvassing in PA on what to expect and how to get Obama’s message across to those that may not be receptive to it because of previous democratic positions on gods guns and gays.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 22, 2008 8:14 PM
Comment #267958
Obama said: “You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate, and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter. They cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” - Barack Obama - 4/6/08
Tiffani Martin wrote: It is obvious to understand why many Americans felt incensed by the above speech. On the surface, it appeared to be judgmental and divisive. However, is it possible that some Americans were upset by Obama’s remark because it hit too close to home?
  • [a] Obama mischaracterized people who are sick of illegal immigration as merely being “anti-immigrant”; besides, we all know Obama’s position on illegal immigration (and is pathetic grade of “D-” betterimmigration.com: grades.betterimmigration.com/compare.php3?District=IL&Category=0&Status=Career&VIPID=1162 ; Obama (like McCain, who voted for the first shamnesty of 1986) chooses to despicably pit Americans and illegal aliens against each other for votes , profits , and/or (supposedly, but severely misplaced) compassion;
  • [b] Obama mischaracterized people who are sick of unfair-trade as merely being “anti-trade”; Obama later said he mistakenly forgot to say “illegal-immigrant” (instead of anti-immigrant) and “unfair-trade” (instead of unfair trade). Obama did not say “anti-illegal-immigrant”; he said “anti-immigrant” which is nonsense in a country that is one of the world’s biggest melting pots. Obama did not say “anti-unfair-trade”; he said “anti-trade”, which is more nonsense in a country that wants free-trade instead of what we have today where other countries block our exports.
  • [c] Obama characterized people as clinging to religion, as if they were supposed to do anything else? How does a person of genuine religious faith cling to their religion? Did Obama cling to his church? What business is it of Obama’s how people practice their religion as long as they don’t interfere with others’ rights? Especially when Obama has some explaining of his own to do about 20 years at Rev. Wright’s church and then disowning Rev. Wright when it become politically inconvenient. At first Obama said he couldn’t disown his Reverend anymore than he could disown his white grandmother. And why did he feel the need to tell us his grandmother is white? Yet, later, Obama did disown and denounce Rev. Wright. Besides, are we really supposed to believe that Obama never heard any of Rev. Wright’s ravings over 20 years?
  • [d] Obama mischaracterized people who value their 2nd amendment right to bear arms as deficient in some way; it was not intended as a compliment; it was a criticism; besides, Obama already has a history of positions and voting for gun control; i.e. Obama supported the handgun-ban in Washington, D.C., which the Supreme Court finally (after 30 years) found as unconstitutional. It’s a bit disturbing that the 2nd amemdment was upheld by only a margin of 1 vote (5-to-4) Supreme Court Justices); Judges supporting the 2nd Amendment:
    • (1) Antonin Scalia
    • (2) John G. Roberts Jr.
    • (3) Samuel A. Alito Jr.
    • (4) Anthony M. Kennedy
    • (5) Clarence Thomas
    Judges dissenting the right of citizens to bear arms:
    • (6) John Paul Stevens
    • (7) Stephen G. Breyer
    • (8) Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    • (9) David H. Souter
Posted by: d.a.n at October 22, 2008 8:57 PM
Comment #267959

When your campaign is in the crapper,your running mate has been pick to try and get the female vote — and females think she is a twit,your campaign turns negative and negative things get on the news — tough shit — McCain brought that all on self.

“Think about that: The Commander In Chief and he can’t get a security clearance.”

Ok you put it out there — prove it — or do you just post crap?
Oh yeah —your the guy that posted that last week Obama was going to get a October surprise with his book being PROVEN to be written by ayers— hows that going for you?
— Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 22, 2008 9:06 PM
Comment #267963

I find the whole pin the (socialist) tail on the (Democratic) donkey game kinda tedious. Republicans always pull that one out during elections.

There are reasons to think Obama has socialist leanings, but if he gets elected and tries to pull any over-the-top socialist crap as president, then he’s gonna get body-slammed and be rewarded with a one-way bus ticket back to Chicago or wherever he calls home four years from now. I ain’t worried about Obama’s socialism. A US president doesn’t have unchecked powers like a third-world dictator does.

If Obama proposes socialist economic policies and Americans go along with them, then I guess that’s just democracy in action and Americans can live with what they get even if it ain’t pretty. For myself, I know exactly how to hide my money from the tax collector and unless Obama intends to invade the Cayman Islands, I don’t give a care.

If he goes past the economic stuff and starts trying to censor media like socialist dictators love doing (the Fairness Doctrine for instance), then he’ll see a backlash like he won’t believe.

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans with the phony baloney they pull out, though. Their treatment of Palin during this election is loathsome and beneath contempt.

And turning a blind eye to Obama’s lie about matching McCain and accepting public campaign money shows their true colors. I know I’m not alone in being fed up with politicians of all parties who think that the ends justifies the means.

Posted by: Liam at October 22, 2008 9:33 PM
Comment #267964

Tiffani good article. I am saddened by its necessity. Set aside for a moment the intellect portion of the arguement and just address elitism. Anyone running for office, any office, is an elitist. You cannot wish to hold an office without first believing “I am better than, my opponent, X.” The charge by one candidate of elitism to another is false on its face. As to intellect, I personally, believe that we should have the smartest president we can get. As to how we have devolved to this point, I don’t know.

Posted by: Ted at October 22, 2008 9:35 PM
Comment #267965

Tiffani good article. I am saddened by its necessity. Set aside for a moment the intellect portion of the arguement and just address elitism. Anyone running for office, any office, is an elitist. You cannot wish to hold an office without first believing “I am better than, my opponent, X.” The charge by one candidate of elitism to another is false on its face. As to intellect, I personally, believe that we should have the smartest president we can get. As to how we have devolved to this point, I don’t know.

Posted by: Ted at October 22, 2008 9:36 PM
Comment #267968

Jim M,

Let’s see if my memory is correct…isn’t it the Republicans who are “fear mongers”? Does it make liberals all “tingly” in the legs to know their guy might get the chance exercise the CIC role in a new war?

Reminiscent of Mao’s “little Red Book” perhaps the Obama Public Relations people can print up his thoughts in a “little Blue Book” that can serve as a bible for the stupid ones to wave.

Were you or have you ever been a member of HUAC?

I realize irony doesn’t register with some people.

Posted by: googlumpugus at October 22, 2008 9:58 PM
Comment #267987

Tiffani, just what we need, another liberal:)

Let me make a few comments:

I agree with Jim M; Biden sat in on the early transition meetings and heard something big and he couldn’t keep his big “elite” mouth shut because he knew something no one else knew. Result: open mouth and Blah, Blah, Blah.

Next, I don’t think those in the military will have time to resign. BHO and the “elite” NP and HR will be cutting the military before inauguration day.

Lastly, as a student of the “elite” Rush Limbaugh School of higher learning, I must say the polls are close. I think the left media has been trying to hoodoo us with the polls. My professor, the “elite” El Rushbo, said a few months ago that the media would show BHO ahead and to protect their own reputations they would show the polls closing in the last couple of weeks.

I am like SE, I predict a win for McCain/Palin.

Posted by: Oldguy at October 22, 2008 11:27 PM
Comment #267990

Oldguy,
Conspiracies about polls make no sense, because McCain’s campaign is acting in a manner consistent with the polling results. McCain has pulled his campaign out of many states that were thought to be in contention, and he is concentrating his funds and organization in PA. He has already given up in Nevada, Colorado, Michigan, Wisconsin, and elsewhere. It’s a nearly impossible situation for McCain because while he is attempting to defend while being hampered by limited resources and a weak organization, Obama is in just the opposite situation. Obama is on the offense, pouring money into NC, VA, OH, and so on. He has created a superior organization of enthusiastic supporters and contributors.

It gets worse. The real strength is in the get out the vote initiative. It’s like nothing any of us have ever seen.

And pardon me if it is a bit ungracious, but let’s look at SE’s article and predictions prior to the 2006 midterms, in which the GOP took a shellacking:

“It now appears that the GOP has weathered everything that the Democratic Party has thrown at it…including the kitchen sink…and is still in a position to keep control of both the House and the Senate despite withering media criticism of the administration.”
from Bounce, Bounce, Bounce
10/27/2006

Oof.

There’s nothing wrong with hoping or wishing, but it might be a good idea to recognize wishful thinking for what it is…

Posted by: phx8 at October 23, 2008 12:00 AM
Comment #267997

Tiffany,

Excellent article, very informative. I think that it is a real shame that most McCain supporters will depreciate the value of an excellent education by highlighting it as a character flaw on Obama’s part. The “simple talk” that you mention, that many of the McCain/Palin supporters respond to, is a component that will lead to continuation of Bush administration policies that will be upheld if McCain is Elected. “simple talk” is all we have had for the past eight years and it has led this country to a pointless war and an embarrassing economic crisis. If voters are seeking to vote for candidates based on who they feel neighborly towards than they do not want someone who they can look up to or depend on to get our country out of this mess.

Posted by: comm315ws at October 23, 2008 2:26 AM
Comment #268003

Savage

Since you asked: The case for denying Barry a security clearance:

1 Barry has used more than one name.

2. Barry’s original birth certificate is unavailable

3. Barry was mentored during his youth by a high level communist in Hawaii.

4. Barry has terrorist organization ‘Nations of Islam’ employees on his current staff, and one of his advisor’s is a member of the global terrorist group ‘Muslim Brotherhood.’

5. Barry authored two books highlighting anti-merican,anti-white racist pasages

6. Barry admits to drug use.

7.Barry’s wife has authored an anti-white thesis while in college.


8. Barry palled around with Bill Ayers and his wife used an excerpt from his book during a recent speech.

9. Barry association with ACORN

10. Barrry’s association with Louis Faraken

11. Barry Association with Jeremiah Wright,who Barrry referred to as his ‘personal spiritual advisor,’ and in fact, the title of one of his memoirs was inspired by a line from this pastor’s ‘sermons.’

12 Barry associated with Tony Rezko

13. Barry never ran with a mainstream crowd, but chose radicals and communist agitators for his social group.

14. Barry has a thin work experience resume.

15. Barry has a perceived deep-seeded anger and resentment towards people of the Caucasian race over the issue of slavery exhibited by his writings.

16 Barry’s apparent emotional gravitas is centered upon his African heritage, and his belief that the white man is responsible for global poverty and unequal sharing of wealth.

17. Barry’s personal associations since childhood have been mostly with radical African Americans, Muslims, and communists; those who harbor anger towards The United States of America.

18 A passage in his book which reads: ‘Should the political winds shift in an ugly direction I will side with the Muslims.’

19 Barry has surrounded himself with anti-American grievance mongers, and appears to manipulate ‘typical white people’ by appealing to their guilt about slavery.

20.Barry is a socialist in sheep’s clothing

21: Barry refuses to discuss his years at Columbia University , although he lived off campus and made few friends.

22.Barry will not release his application to the state bar notes which raises questions on several issues including the use of drugs.

23. Very little is available about his experience with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a foundation that spent $100 million with no discernable benefit for the schools and students that it was putatively designed to help

Taken in the totality of the circumstances, I betcha he would be denied.

Posted by: sicilian eagle at October 23, 2008 7:41 AM
Comment #268004

the above is not proof the above is talking points — with many having been proved false but like rush you still act like they are “proven facts”
For example lets put this in its proper context

18 A passage in his book which reads: ‘Should the political winds shift in an ugly direction I will side with the Muslims.’
Obama wrote on page 261 of The Audacity of Hope

“In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly: they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during WWII, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
In context that line looks a lot different does it not?
— Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 23, 2008 8:29 AM
Comment #268018

savage

Well, it took you to number 18 to respond. The point here that if you even try to connect any dot…which is what security fols do, there is a semblance of qyuestion raised….which is enough to deny a security clearance.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck….

You don’t want to see it. Instead, you (metaphorically speaking,as Barry would say about Biden), attack those who raise legitimate questons about a virtual unkown….a man about ready to assume the most powerful job in the world.

It’s called due diligence, that’s all. Nothing personal..he seems like a nice enough guy…then again, so did John Edwards a former Dem VP candidate and presidential hopeful.

Posted by: sicilian eagle at October 23, 2008 9:58 AM
Comment #268028

why should I do your work for you? Your the one tossing crap out here like its “facts” — now prove your “facts” — all I did was put one of your”facts” in the context that it was printed in.
Its kind of sad that you and your party can not fight and win a honest battle and are willing to stoop as low as you do.
Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 23, 2008 10:37 AM
Comment #268029

And please note — I did prove #18 to be a total LIE.
Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 23, 2008 10:39 AM
Comment #268031

SE,

So you’re saying that Muslims are evil people, who hate America, hate Americans,are opposed to everything we believe in, and that “Americans” (read: funda. Christians) are the antithesis of whom Obama is siding with against “Americans”?

Here’s some news buddy, I’m Muslim, and you’re spot on I as an American,hate Americans who have that attitude, because at it’s core, it’s blatantly anti-American.

I’m personally tired of people, especially Republican voters tying Islam with terrorism and anti-Americanism. Don’t insult a religion by painting whoever associates with it as evil, or anti-patriotic. Nevermind that 100% of those “facts” have been proven absurdly false, I’m worried about people who believe them.

Fact is: Obama is more popular IN Muslim countries and some of the more ignorant people in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria etc, actually believe he’s Muslim, but that’s a good thing.

It’s like if you tell the most anti-Obama right wing person, who’s never going to change his view that he’s Muslim when he’s not. Bottom line is he’s more popular and amiable in parts of the world where the common person is ignorant enough about America to hate Americans for no reason. Just from image alone, take away everything else, he MAKES them hate us less.

Posted by: Jon at October 23, 2008 10:45 AM
Comment #268039

>1 Barry has used more than one name.
So has my wife…

2. Barry’s original birth certificate is unavailable
My wife’s certificate has the incorrect date of birth and her father’s name is misspelled…

3. Barry was mentored during his youth by a high level communist in Hawaii.
Shows a broad spectrum of input. It is nice to have a well rounded background…

4. Barry has terrorist organization ‘Nations of Islam’ employees on his current staff, and one of his advisor’s is a member of the global terrorist group ‘Muslim Brotherhood.’
If you are going to get into a fight, one of the best pieces af advice is to ‘know your foe’, it is a good idea to get as much information about the way they think as possible…

5. Barry authored two books highlighting anti-merican,anti-white racist pasages
If I were to write a book, it would likely have some ‘anti-white racist’ passages in it too. On the other hand, if you wrote one would it have ‘pro-white racist’ passages in it?

6. Barry admits to drug use.
And I’ve been known to pick my nose, but I’ve still got a clearance, as far as I know. His drug use was limited, likely experimental, and several years ago, he was not tried nor convicted for it, so why would it enter into this conversation?..

7.Barry’s wife has authored an anti-white thesis while in college.
She likely had some bad feelings about white people when she was young…do you still feel the same way you did when you were in school?..

8. Barry palled around with Bill Ayers and his wife used an excerpt from his book during a recent speech.
The ‘palling around’ thingee has been debunked several times and is only brought up by fools and idiots. Ayers is an educator and writes books, why would not someone use his works in reference?..

9. Barry association with ACORN
As has mccain, and the organization is funded by a Republican sponsor…

10. Barrry’s association with Louis Farrakhan
He listened to him once at an invitation by his church, do you hold sway over all the speakers invited to your church…and, again how many crimes has Farrakhan been convicted of?..

11. Barry Association with Jeremiah Wright,who Barrry referred to as his ‘personal spiritual advisor,’ and in fact, the title of one of his memoirs was inspired by a line from this pastor’s ‘sermons.’
And has denounced Wright’s hate messages…

12 Barry associated with Tony Rezko
I bought my house through a realtor too…

13. Barry never ran with a mainstream crowd, but chose radicals and communist agitators for his social group.
And now sees America through something besides stupid colored glasses. He certainly is well rounded…

14. Barry has a thin work experience resume.
With intelligence and will, much can be accomplished, and mccain shows that without intelligence and will hardly anything ever gets accomplished…

15. Barry has a perceived deep-seeded anger and resentment towards people of the Caucasian race over the issue of slavery exhibited by his writings.
If I’d come from slave stock, the thoughts of slavery would probably piss me off too…

16 Barry’s apparent emotional gravitas is centered upon his African heritage, and his belief that the white man is responsible for global poverty and unequal sharing of wealth.
Probably all true, except for the African heritage thingee…who would you suggest caused most of the things you mentioned? No one else has had the power…

17. Barry’s personal associations since childhood have been mostly with radical African Americans, Muslims, and communists; those who harbor anger towards The United States of America.
If these were his only associations, he’d hardly be in the position he’s in right now, and I’ve answered the other stupidity you mentioned before…

18 A passage in his book which reads: ‘Should the political winds shift in an ugly direction I will side with the Muslims.’
This one has already been answered even better than I would have done…

19 Barry has surrounded himself with anti-American grievance mongers, and appears to manipulate ‘typical white people’ by appealing to their guilt about slavery.
How many times can you mention the same things???..

20.Barry is a socialist in sheep’s clothing
Again, how many times???..

21: Barry refuses to discuss his years at Columbia University , although he lived off campus and made few friends.
Since he lived off-campus and dose not discuss it, how do you know how many friends he had???..

22.Barry will not release his application to the state bar notes which raises questions on several issues including the use of drugs.
He freely admitted his drug use and has said it was limited, years ago…again, how many times must you put this into one set of questions, do you actually expect different answers???..

23. Very little is available about his experience with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a foundation that spent $100 million with no discernable benefit for the schools and students that it was putatively designed to help
Not every effort works. For an example look at the experiment we tried in 2001, that lasted eight years for a presidency…the Annangerg Foundation is still funded by the same conservatives as stated above…again, how many times do feel it appropriate to ask the same question, or make the same statement repeatedly???..

Taken in the totality of the circumstances, I betcha he would be denied.
You have mentioned absolutely NOTHING that would cause even the merest hesitation in a clearance application being approved…

Posted by: sicilian eagle at October 23, 2008 07:41 AM

What a bunch of garbage…if you can’t do better than this, I consider the whole experience to be a total waste of time…yours AND mine.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 23, 2008 11:07 AM
Comment #268041

Hello and Welcome Tiffani Martin!
Nice piece.

I personally don’t think that most Republicans are stupid people. Although some certainly are. Overall, it seems to be more a problem of Willful Ignorance paired with a swaggering and prideful bravado.

In a similar vein to the above article, here’s a good piece from Bob Cesca:
The End of ‘Larry The Cable Guy Politics’

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at October 23, 2008 11:13 AM
Comment #268042

Jon

You said:

“So you’re saying that Muslims are evil people, who hate America, hate Americans,are opposed to everything we believe in, and that “Americans” (read: funda. Christians) are the antithesis of whom Obama is siding with against “Americans”?”

I say:

10% of 1 billion Muslims hate America’s guts. That is 100 million people…a population larger than Nazi Germany…that hate us. That is a LOT of people.

Well, let’s kill them all then. Let’s eliminate an entire generation of those who think that…just like we did during the second world war, and then re-educate the next generation properly. These folks only understand the boot on their neck. Period.

Someday, when they peer out of teir rat holes,maybe some of them will wake up. Until then, my favorite game is still whack a molee.

Of the American Muslims: Why is it that they didn’t flock to the FBI,CIA,ect as translators when the conflict broke out? Why? Here is the answer: They are scared,all right, but they are scared of fanaticial element within YOUR religion. The 10% controls the 90%. When the 90% wakes up and grows some, then we can talk about peace and reparing the image of the “religion of peace”

I do not dislike you because of your religious beliefs, and I will defend your rights as a Muslim.However, I will do anything in my power to expose those in your religion who want to kill me because I believe in Jesus Christ as the Lord.

The Eagle is not a fanatic religious nut either. However, throughout history MILLIONS have been beheaded by your religion for just such a belief.

That is why I have been a vigouous defender of Adninistration policies. Some of us don’t cower: we bite back. Big time.

However, guys like Ayers, Wright, and all those who hang with Barry…make me puke.

They are “American” about as much as Bin Laden. Same with those idiot Jihadist that call themselves Americans.

Posted by: sicilian eagle at October 23, 2008 11:15 AM
Comment #268043

Marysdude

Time well spent. No birth certificate means no security clearance. Period. You can delete the rest if you want. As for me, it gives me a complete picture of the guy.

Due diligence.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at October 23, 2008 11:21 AM
Comment #268057

“You have mentioned absolutely NOTHING that would cause even the merest hesitation in a clearance application being approved…”

Thats not true Dude.
3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 13, and 17 would all require further investigation, especially since he lied about some of them when first asked about them.

Posted by: kctim at October 23, 2008 12:24 PM
Comment #268074

SE,

That 10% may hate, we’re all human beings after all, it’s our nature, but they neither have the means nor knowledge to turn that hate into something that can even remotely harm us. Pundits and fearmongers love to spout that terrorists will get chem or biological weapons and use it on us.

They can’t they don’t know how to handle them nor how to deliver them, and 9/10 they die trying to get them, and that 1/10th time, they get caught. In short, most terrorists, despite people claiming they’re “masterminds”, are idiots.

90% of Muslims find them to be a joke, some cheer them on, but it’s tantamount to cheering on the worst softball team with the most annoying players that happens to be in your hometown.

It’s stated directly in the Q’uran, and no if’s and’s or but’s about it, that IF you kill, harm or persecute someone whether they’re Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, whatever, that you in fact, are NOT a Muslim. It also says that you can’t ever ever ever kill in the name of Allah, except to defend yourself (this is the point that gets perverted via jihad).

So no, millions did not get beheaded for the belief of Muslims vs. Christians.


Posted by: Jon at October 23, 2008 2:04 PM
Comment #268075

Anyways, back on topic.

This country is looked on by the world, although less so now, as the smartest, most progressive, and most full of opportunity in the world bar none.

To elect people who represent the “common” folk and not our greatest minds, or those they endorse and are also highly intellectual undermines what this nation is built on. Being the best, getting the best, and protecting their rights to continue that right to be the best and get rewarded.

Posted by: Jon at October 23, 2008 2:07 PM
Comment #268081

Jon, I’m personally sickened and shamed by what you just had to read!!!
Believe me when I say that I love my country, and wish the best for it and all of its’ citizens….regardless of ethnicity, sexual or religious preference. It has been our culture and history to ACCEPT…and I detest the attitude of bigots, no matter who, or what their targets may be.
There is no doubt that our willingness to accept and believe is part of what has brought much pain and suffering upon us, but I still prefer us being known as a country with an open heart, than one of a closed mind.

Posted by: janedoe at October 23, 2008 2:58 PM
Comment #268085

> No birth certificate means no security clearance. Period. You can delete the rest if you want. As for me, it gives me a complete picture of the guy.

Due diligence.
Posted by: sicilianeagle at October 23, 2008 11:21 AM

sic egret,

No harm no foul…I don’t remember anyone saying Obama did not HAVE a birth certificate, just hat he had not presented one. As far as I know he only has to present one to officials who determine if he is eligible to run or not…he is running…nuff said…as far as your bravery is concerned???…perhaps belligerence is a better term. Your rant above is an example of belligerence, not bravery.

David Duke wasn’t brave either…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 23, 2008 4:01 PM
Comment #268093

jane doe and marysdude

A bigot I am not. Why is it that every time a conservative stands his ground the term bigot is used?

Am I bigoted against 10% of the world that wants my head…and yours?

Well, yes I am I guess.

Where’s the leap from there?

Posted by: sicilianeagle at October 23, 2008 4:27 PM
Comment #268097

sic egret,

You say that 10% of Muslims wants your head…why?

What percentage of Christians wants Ali Baba’s head?

Slinging hateful words at Musims probably won’t turn their hate to love…???…

I’m not sure if you are bigoted (it’s not our fault that you sound like it) or not, but it is fairly obvious that you are very belligerent about those you perceive to be different than you…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 23, 2008 4:42 PM
Comment #268099

Marysdude

10% is roughly the mumber of Muslins worldwide who hold fundamentalists views similar to Al Quada, Taliban, the Wahhabi sect, and others.

Simply: As a non-believer we (all non-Muslims) are infidels.

In moderate countries, non-believers pay a tax.In India, 300,000 Hindus were slaughtered.

Unfortunately, even in the Muslim world,the hatred between sects of Shia and Sunni to one another is incredoulous.

As I said here a long time ago: We are witnessing the Islamic Reformation..a shaping of that religion.

We are caught up in the turmoil. However, I stand by 10% number of hard core fanatics who want us dead by any means possible. With these,you cannot reason. As Robert Lewis Stevenson said “Sometimes,you have to fight it out or perish. And if that the case, why not here,where we stand?

Posted by: sicilian eagle at October 23, 2008 4:55 PM
Comment #268105

I don’t think you’re a bigot SE, I doubt you’d find anyone on these boards truly “bigoted” in issues of race, religion, etc. Just uninformed.

I can guarantee you, as an American who’s gone to the mid-east (Turkey/Syria/Egypt), if you just strike up a conversation with a normal middle class person there (or even a villager who has the internet), they’ll welcome you into their home, drink tea, coffee, talk about family, and not really care whether they hate you or you them because of nationality.

These are the issues they hate, and you’ll find this to be true in most places that are considered anti-American.

The CIA, Israel, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, Zionists, England, The Military, Summer Heat, Russia, Russians.

Mention any one of those subjects, and you’re guaranteed at a minimum a heated arguement. My point being that everyone everywhere is pretty much THE SAME, you have your ignorant crowd, your middle class normal people, people that have no jobs or means to live so they hate because it gives them something to do, rich people, nationalists, anti-establishment, etc etc.

Tying this with Obama, and intellectualism again, is that you have to understand that “those” people you’re talking about only have images, and propaganda more or less. I’m going to be blunt, but we see McCain and Obama, Repub/Democ, right/left, issues, economy differences, they see McCain, white guy, war, hard imperialism and Bush. They see Obama, black guy, they assume (wrongly) he’ll just pull all the troops out of Iraq in a day, further the soft type of American
imperialism, and JFK (Not joking, some papers have said they’re related).

So image, one thing Obama has going for him for foreign policy as he’s just a lot more amiable, and those on the right will say soft. Before going even more off-topic on post, I will say that Obama’s ads to get kids to read and shut off the TV for parents is very well done, McCain/Palin should do the same.

Posted by: Jon at October 23, 2008 5:14 PM
Comment #268114

Jon

You seem like a nice guy,so can talk intelligently. However, this is what you said:

“they see McCain, white guy, war, hard imperialism and Bush. They see Obama, black guy, they assume (wrongly) he’ll just pull all the troops out of Iraq in a day, further the soft type of American
imperialism, and JFK (Not joking, some papers have said they’re related).”

THAT is bigotry.

Here, everyone has been so wrapped up in tying Bush to McCain, that they got lost in the fog.

McCain IS white. Barry is 1/2 black. So what? This is about competence, leadership,experience…and guts.

I decided that McCain has those better qualities,that’s it.

However, the Eagle just loves to fly in here every once and a while to shake things up.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at October 23, 2008 6:18 PM
Comment #268117

No I meant that in those countries when they do have coverage in papers or talk shows, that’s what the main talking points are, I’m not saying it myself, just stating those things are what is printed/viewed in those countries *in some news*, not all. Foreign relations wise, that’s all they see is what I mean, so let’s say your regular Iraqi citizen, fairly educated, but dosen’t follow US politics closely, that’s what he/she is going to think.

It’s not bigotry per se, because they really don’t care about black/white (from experience you get a lot of stares if you’re white though), it’s just perception.

Posted by: Jon at October 23, 2008 6:27 PM
Comment #268118

sic egret,

And, the percentage of Christians who would behead Ali Baba?

I’m still trying to separate what you say is your concern from what Ali Baba might say is his main concern…

You brought this up with that ridiculous rant about Obama’s associations, so please answer some of this. And, please answer with a little thought this time…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 23, 2008 7:08 PM
Comment #268129

SE

If 100 million people wanted you dead-you already would be. Do you really believe that that are that many people who would do anything (including giving up their own lives) to attack us. If that were the case we would be having hundreds of thousands attacks against us daily. I’m not saying that there are not people who would do us harm, but to say that because they are fundamentalists they will try to kill you is a bit of a stretch.

Posted by: Tom at October 23, 2008 9:14 PM
Comment #268154

Tom

you said: Do you really believe that that are that many people who would do anything (including giving up their own lives) to attack us. “

I Say

Huh? Have you heard that the WTC was bombed by suicide hijickers? Huh? The going rate for a
suiside bomber in Iraq is $300…that’s how much these a-holes get paid to blow themselves up.
Then Saddam, Hamas, whoever gives the family more money (as much as 25K),plus a nice memorial somewhere in some rathole. Check out Somilia…the next breeding ground. Indonesia…with the world’s largets Muslim population (heck we never read about them except when Bali gets blown up or something), Pakistan…over 150 million there…10% is 15 million right there getting brainwashed in those madrassas, Syria, Lebenon,Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Yemen,Darfur…you name it.

The reason we do not have hundreds of attack daily is because of our viligance. We have taken the fight to them. Every day, bad guys are killed all over the world. Our NSA, CIA, Military has been all over them. The constantly dispupt comand and control, decapitae the cell leadership,and generally have had a silent war against these folks since 9/11.

If we had an open border, more of 9/11 would have happened for sure.

Read Tom Holland’s book “Persian Fire” for historical perspective.This fight has been going on for centuries. Centuries.

Marysdude;

The Crusaders were as bad as the modern day jihadists,for sure. Christianity has had its share of blood on its hands…of this I do not disagree.

However,when is the last time a “religious” war was conducted? Bosnia? Those animals are in jail now. When? Was it a policy of America to discrimanate and KILL people simply because they believe in anything?

I don’t rant…you know that. However, when I say something that you disagree with, an accusation of bigotry,ranting, ect alsways seems to fly.

Look: When someone applies to the FBI (or any other Federal agency for that matter),on the questionaire is a question on drug use. If an applicant answers that he took drugs, a field agent questions him. A file is opened.The application is held up. No security is issued until the file is complete. You wanna argue with that?

Posted by: sicilianeagle at October 24, 2008 6:12 AM
Comment #268165

se,

How many of the Muslims that want to behead you are American?

How much of the mid-east turmoil is religious?

What is going on in Somalia?

Why are the folks of Darfar having to leave their homes?

Why are the outlying areas of…oh, never mind…

As far as your example of FBI security investigations is concerned…if the FBI had a problem with Obama getting a clearance, he’d have been denied half the positions he’s held in the Senate…I’m done…reading your crap is like listening to mccain’s robocalls.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 10:22 AM
Comment #268168

Agree marysdude — he just tosses crap out there hoping either someone will believe him or something will stick
— Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 24, 2008 11:24 AM
Comment #268179

Elitism, as has been pointed out already, is often used by the right to characterize people they don’t like, usually without understanding what it means or implies, kind of like they use liberal to describe anything they don’t like whether it is liberal by definition or not.

To me, elitism implies that the target is in some way better than others, since that’s the basic meaning of the term elite.

So, what are you saying when we accuse a political figure of elitism, unless you are first ceding the point that they are better in some way?

Don’t we want the people who run for office and may be elected to office to be better in some way than those who aren’t?

I don’t know about anyone else, but it is the better candidate for whom I strive to vote, not the average candidate or the below average candidate.

So if you call a candidate an elitist, why should I not look at that as a positive opinion for that candidate?

Posted by: EJN at October 24, 2008 12:35 PM
Comment #268182

>So if you call a candidate an elitist, why should I not look at that as a positive opinion for that candidate?
Posted by: EJN at October 24, 2008 12:35 PM

EJN,

You are right, of course, being among the elite is something most of us wish we could achieve.

Republican campaigners use the term in a derogatory way, because they have not risen to that status, and wish everyone else to think it is a bad thing.

The mccains owns seven or eight homes, even HE doesn’t know how many, he comes from a hierarchy of military blue blood and his wife inherited a hundred million dollars or so, his running mate just spent 150,000 dollars on wardrobe and her makeup artist makes more than anyone else in the Republican campaign staffs, but they have the temerity to call the Obamas elitists. I’m with you, I’m glad the Obamas have achieved enough education and couths to warrant the title, it just makes them better suited to the White House…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 12:53 PM
Comment #268183

Good point EJN
Elite does kind of relate to the cream of the crop, and that’s not a bad thing. You’re right,too, about wanting to have our President recognized for both intelligence and wisdom…… won’t it be nice to see that again??
Too many people confuse elitism..with arrogance, which is displayed on here frequently.
You just have to get used to the sic eagle….it’s molting season and birds are really crochety then.

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 12:54 PM
Comment #268196

janedoe


“You just have to get used to the sic eagle….it’s molting season and birds are really crochety then.”

you remind a lot of adrienne. hmmm ?

Posted by: dbs at October 24, 2008 1:55 PM
Comment #268199

EJN


regardless of what you choose to call it, the god and guns remark, was condescending and, ignorant. whether it was intentional, or he just mispoke doesn’t matter. it shows a genuine lack of understanding the lifestyles of others. if you want split hairs, and argue about what elitism really means thats up to you. it changes nothing.

Posted by: dbs at October 24, 2008 2:06 PM
Comment #268201

dbs, I’m not sure that Adrienne would agree, but thanks ! She is alive and well.
And I’m aware that was not meant as a compliment. ;)

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Comment #268203

;)

Posted by: Rodney Brown at October 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Comment #268204

Has everyone seen that the malicious report of an attack on a woman in Pittsburgh, by an Obama camgaign worker, has been proven a hoax?!?!!!!
Desperate times call for desperate measures, I guess. Good for the PPD !!!

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 2:45 PM
Comment #268214


“on the questionaire is a question on drug use”

This could explain why Cheney is co-president rather than vice president.

What does government of the elitists, by the elitists, for the elitists get you? A nearly bankrupt economy and trillions in debt.

Posted by: jlw at October 24, 2008 4:07 PM
Comment #268217

jlw,

Yeah, with Bush’s cocaine history, he can’t be trusted with a gun like Cheney can…hmmm…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 4:35 PM
Comment #268219

If the topic is elitism it is irrelvant whether the candidate is the “best” or not. It is whether that candidate, and his or her supporters respect the American people and their right to apply or withold consent. Here we see that the hierarchy of the Republican Party, many of whom have recently bolted ship to go to dinner parties with Democrats, ignored their base after 2004. That was an act of elitism.

We see from the presidents inner circle tomes like Michael Gerson’s “Heroic Conservatism” that, in essence accuse people who hold conservative principles achieve the common good better than Robin Hood principles of being evil. We see accusations of outright stupidity and racial bigotry even from the everyday liberal posters on this site. And we see screaming on a daily basis that an economy that is still not even officially in recession is the “worst since the Great Depression” when it is not even as bad as the beginning of the Carter administration, much less the convulsing, gagging end of it.

These are all the works of a band of brilliants, bright lights who know they are shiny because they all tell each other they are shiny. They don’t live in the world of accomplishing anything real, though, as do the people they are so eager to condemn as Neaderthals.

That is the problem with getting your feedback from people who get their feedback from self-proclained smart people. No matter how one tries to explain to such people with examples drawn from a logical, real, world one can’t penetrate such genius.

Just ask the guy who was everybody’s pick for the smartest man in the world in 1928.

His name was Herbert Hoover.

Posted by: Lee Jamison at October 24, 2008 4:39 PM
Comment #268230

>Just ask the guy who was everybody’s pick for the smartest man in the world in 1928.

His name was Herbert Hoover.
Posted by: Lee Jamison at October 24, 2008 04:39 PM

Just one of them there elitist Republicans…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 7:00 PM
Comment #268233

Marysdude,

Now, now! He won in a landslide. That’s popular vindication isn’t it? Does it matter who the elites think the smartest person is as long as they are elite? Look at the definitions above!

He was, as the definition suggests, superior according to superior people.
Who are you to question that?

Posted by: Lee Jamison at October 24, 2008 7:30 PM
Comment #268237

Lee,

Democrat ‘elites’ are okay…

Republican ‘elites’ are jerks…

That’s the difference…okay?

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 7:51 PM
Comment #268239

janedoe

“I’m not sure that Adrienne would agree, but thanks ! She is alive and well.
And I’m aware that was not meant as a compliment. ;)”

well…if you do happen to run into her, tell i said hey, and i hope all is well ;)

Posted by: dbs at October 24, 2008 7:59 PM
Comment #268241

dude, meet the conservative definition of elite…..arrogant. Their opinion is gospel, no matter what, or who the subject.
But they’re great baiters……..

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 8:19 PM
Comment #268242

I miss Adrienne too. Please come back, Adrienne. I was going to comment on the plummeting bird’s posts but then i realized he didn’t say anything, so nothing to comment on at all. Must have had a flashback just then. Just a bit more now until the end of an error.

Posted by: ray at October 24, 2008 8:23 PM
Comment #268243

Has anyone here heard the mutilation story?

If you hear it, and are concerned as to how such a thing will effect the Obama Campaign, do not worry…here is the true scoop:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_aide_gave_reporters_inc.php

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 8:35 PM
Comment #268244

ray and dbs,
drop a quick email and I’ll be happy to share info with you… sandi_davidson@yahoo
Funny on the plummeting “egret”, as dude calls him…. ;)

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 8:39 PM
Comment #268246

dude, I heard it early this morning, then it wasn’t long before the Pittsburgh PD got to the bottom of it. Do any of “us” feel that the McCain spokesman will be charged for his slandering statements????

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 8:44 PM
Comment #268251

janedoe,

Charged…nope…but, if ‘O’s staff uses the events properly, mccain will lose about a million votes…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 9:52 PM
Comment #268259

dude,
I guess this guy who made all this up and “encouraged” this gal to tell this story, is some high-level organizer for the Geezer. I don’t know about in Pa., but here, false reporting of a crime carries a penalty sympathetic to the degree of the crime alleged.
Just another example of the Republican idea of nasty from an “elite” member of the party.

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 11:09 PM
Comment #268261

janedoe,

The campaign guy, I think, just heard the story and wanting to take advantage aas quickly as possible, past the story on so the campaign could use it. I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think he conspired with the girl.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 24, 2008 11:15 PM
Comment #268263

You certainly could be right, but I thought that was what was being reported this evening……and what is really pathetic, is that the gal has had issues before….is psychologically unsound. So, the guy took advantage big-time.
The dam “B” was backwards for cripes’ sake…….

Posted by: janedoe at October 24, 2008 11:20 PM
Comment #268269

Lee E Jay, “That is the problem with getting your feedback from people who get their feedback from self-proclained smart people. No matter how one tries to explain to such people with examples drawn from a logical, real, world one can’t penetrate such genius. Just ask the guy who was everybody’s pick for the smartest man in the world in 1928. His name was Herbert Hoover.”

That about sums it up. I don’t want to go look back at the snob discussion, but endless affirmative action from his stoned teenagehood until now has obviously given BHO a less than realistic view of himself. If someone is endlessly complemented and promoted for being clean and bright and articulate, they might think those were the only things that matterred.

The Messiah thing comes directly from Farrakhan, another former neighbor he only met once, until it comes out that he met him again, then he only met him twice, until it comes out that he met him again, etc.

The Ayers thing also just proves how out of touch BHO is, and how dumb and gullible he believes that his own supporters are, when they keep defending his nonsense. Ayers wife is Bernadine Dohrn. She knew Michelle from the law firm Sidley Austin. You would have to believe that the Obamas are a lot less intellegent than you claim they are, to believe they didn’t know Ayers and Dohrns backgrounds. Don’t get hoodwinked, don’t be bamboozled.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 25, 2008 12:02 AM
Comment #268296

ohrealy,

You have the temerity to claim Obama is like Hoover? Didn’t anybody tell you it wasn’t Obama in charge when the poop hit the fan…let me be the first; Obama was not in charge when the poop hit the fan…stick THAT in your elite summation.

Obama has not claimed, as far as I know to be smarter or more ‘elite’ than anyone else…it has been the Republicans who have consistently hung those labels on him as though they should become an albatross hovering around like a dark cloud.

Democrats appreciate that he is and seems smarter and more aware of what is going on around him than the other guy, but I thought that was what was expected in a President of the United States.

Apparently, Republicans want something less…oh, well…better luck next time.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 25, 2008 11:44 AM
Comment #268386

Hoover was a very interesting person, but not as stubborn as BHO. I would classify him with Wilson, Stevenson, and Carter. The analogy to Stevenson is the most apt, a reformer coming out of a corrupt system. BHO knows about every crooked deal that ever went down in the last 20 years, but won’t be doing any witnessing.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 26, 2008 1:35 PM
Comment #268400

> BHO knows about every crooked deal that ever went down in the last 20 years, but won’t be doing any witnessing.
Posted by: ohrealy at October 26, 2008 01:35 PM

Gawd, I hope not. We are in deep doodoo and I don’t want my president again spending more time, in depositions for Republican obstructionism, than in governance. We went through that once, and once is ENOUGH…your slurs and innuendo stem from a palpable panic. Does it bother you that much to lose one?

Are you better off now than you were eight years ago? Would mccain kiss it and make it even better?

Just relax, your turn will come again if you are right about Obama, and if you are wrong, you’ll forget you were ever against him.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 26, 2008 3:35 PM
Comment #268412

“your slurs and innuendo” Hey, that’s Stephen Daugherty’s line! They’re not my slurs anyway. I could give you my impression of BHO from reading his own words, but you would’nt like it at all. People think that Jesse Jackson Sr is mad at BHO for stealing his thunder, but they’re wrong. I also don’t want to relive the nonsense of past witchhunts and tabloid craziness. That’s almost the whole point. It’s a little bit about a couple of people that helped him get elected here that I don’t like at all. He’s also running for POTUS, not dogcatcher, and is too foreign. If you think that’s “racist”, I would say that I wouldn’t vote for an anchor baby named Von Ziegesar either.

I am better off now than I was eight years ago, except for being 8 year older. I don’t get the JMcC references, but I respect him for his service to the nation, and dislike hearing him criticized for the results of that service.

I am relaxed, and not worried about my turn coming again, whatever that means. We’re watching a football game, there are beverages (beer before wine, everything’s fine) and conversation, and I’m catching up on my internet subscriptions, while downloading music videos. Here’s a fuzzy one of a really “cool” drug addict lipsyncing poorly on French TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAhIs_DV0KA

Posted by: ohrealy at October 26, 2008 4:49 PM
Comment #268432

>“your slurs and innuendo” Hey, that’s Stephen Daugherty’s line!

Posted by: ohrealy at October 26, 2008 04:49 PM

ohrealy,

It is only Stephen’s line when he uses it…it is my line when I use it…the only thing that doesn’t change is that you slurs and innuendo is just that, and regrettably is unlikely to change, because those two things seem to comprise many of your posts.

Slinging mud up against the wall…just makes a dirty wall…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 26, 2008 9:28 PM
Comment #268444

>> No birth certificate means no security clearance. Period. You can delete the rest if you want. As for me, it gives me a complete picture of the guy.

Due diligence.
Posted by: sicilianeagle at October 23, 2008 11:21 AM

se,

Apparently you wanted me to do your research for you…normally I’d decline, however in this case here goes…

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Rised seal, officials signature, names of father and mother clearly provided, etc. etc.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 27, 2008 12:42 AM
Comment #268447

aw dude, the sic eagle just gets them rats and mice stuck in his craw now and then, and has to come in here and regurgitate……it’s not pleasant ;)
That data on the birth certificate has been available for quite a while, and it’s just more evidence that the right-columners are selective readers.

Posted by: janedoe at October 27, 2008 1:34 AM
Comment #268451

dbs:

well…if you do happen to run into her, tell i said hey, and i hope all is well ;)

Hey, yourself. All is quite well, thanks.

Jane:

they’re great baiters……

Bit more like chum these days, wouldn’t you say? And hopefully the tide is about to sweep it all away!

Ray:

I miss Adrienne too. Please come back, Adrienne.

That’s sweet Ray, thank you. I’ve been busting my butt for Obama lately, and have had no time for blogging. Mostly making phone calls the past few days.

I was going to comment on the plummeting bird’s posts but then i realized he didn’t say anything, so nothing to comment on at all.

It’s so true. Sometimes there’s just no point in responding at all.

Just a bit more now until the end of an error.

How I hope you’re right! All the polls are currently looking pretty good. (Personally, I’m still not taking anything for granted, because the GOP really has raised disenfranchisement, cheating and rigging to a whole new level.)

But YES WE CAN raise a glass in the hope that we will indeed see an end of this error!!! In such a bold, hopeful spirit, allow me to share my friend Shay Black singing Barack OBama is IRISH! at one of his weekly tunes sessions at The Starry Plough here in Berkeley. (And yes, I was there for this one — sipping a Jameson’s, and singing along!:^)

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at October 27, 2008 3:28 AM
Comment #268452

Oops. Here’s the link: Barack Obama is IRISH!

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at October 27, 2008 3:33 AM
Comment #268479

Howwwwww funnnnnnnn !!!!!
Thank you VV

Posted by: janedoe at October 27, 2008 2:14 PM
Comment #268688


Well, the big day is here.

The big day when Obama, in concert, literally, with the Leftist Media, tries to make his
case for why we should vote for him.

He still expects so many of us to believe him, even after him being one of the biggest
LIARS, on the face of this planet, in ALL of human history.

Now that there’s been uncovered, yet ANOTHER, of his Blatant and Obvious examples
of his root and core Socialist ideological beliefs, and no doubt why they will NOT
reveal his writings from his College / University years, he has more ‘splaining to do.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how it is
possible that, since he has, from at least 2001 or before, held the beliefs, as he was
eager to explain in the 2001 radio interview, in which he SAID there should be MORE
Redistribution ( of wealth ), and the SUPREME COURT ( probably other courts too )
SHOULD be MORE involved. And, in CONTRADICTON to the Constitution, AND he
STILL expects us to NOT think he IS a Socialist? Not to mention, him apparently
being hell bent on our Constitution NOT being followed, which he MUST take an Oath
TO Uphold and Protect. HOW and WHY would / could, We The People, believe ANY
oath HE would take, under ANY circumstances?

Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

SO, just as has been asked in many ways, in cross examinations, and by those who
REALLY want to know, was he LYING, LYING, LYING THEN, or, is he LYING, LYING,
LYING Now? Or, is he just a CONSTANT Psychopathic Lying Sociopath? In ANY case,
Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Or, BOTH? It sure looks like it, more, and more, and more.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible, that 20 years in front of a “mentor” / Wright, was not enough for
Obama to KNOW what Wright was all about, and hear and see the divisive
anger and rage, which was demonstrated a number of times in sermons?
Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible that, since he is supposedly so well educated from his college
and university years, that he is apparently NOT well read enough, or NOT in
touch with RECENT American History, that he has no clue of who Ayers was?
Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible that, IF he has any REAL sense of politics, or the REAL world
around him, how is it that when he started to get involved with Ayers, and
ESPECIALLY Ayers involved in Obama’s political career, that Obama did
NOT properly do research about Ayers, to make sure of who or what he was?
Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible that, since he was so involved with ACORN, but he did NOT
apparently also know, or care about, the following:

( From http://pajamasmedia.com/ )

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) is a community-based organization that advocates for low and moderate income families founded in 1970 by Wade Rathke and Gary Delgado. Rathke, one of the most powerful hard-Left activists in America, is a former member of a radical 1960s group, the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). The Weathermen terrorist group split off from the SDS in 1969.

And,

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.
On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

( The whole story: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/ )


So, since Obama is supposedly so smart, HOW can it be he did NOT know ANY of this
FRAUD history of ACORN?

Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible that, IF he is supposedly so smart, politically, or otherwise, HOW
is it, he did not make sure of the ethicalness of his relationship and deals with
Rezko? WHY did Obama not realize the potential, for even the appearance of
scandal, let alone the ACTUAL deals we’re now aware of? Maybe because it’s
so accepted in Chicago / Illinois corrupt street thug politics?

Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible that, IF he has ANY amount of understanding of economics, or
our country’s financial mechanisms, he could NOT see the potential for disaster,
with the KNOWN mismanagement, CORRUPTION, and artificial housing
market success, being perpetrated by, and because of, Fannie, Freddie, and
BAD legislation and requirements, for banks to make HIGH risk mortgages?

Maybe because so many DEMOCRATS were ALREADY getting away with it.

Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible that, IF he had ANY inkling of Foreign Policy, or even reality in
general, that it would be OK, to sit down with a KNOWN adversary, of ANY
degree, to discuss, and TO NEGOTIATE, almost anything, would be done with
NO preconditions, AND that ANY one, with an ounce of IQ, would ANNOUNCE
ahead of time, their strategy, like, NO preconditions?

Obama is either sooooo INCOMPETENT, or it’s ANOTHER of his BIG LIES.

Can ANY amount of Obama bought air time, be enough for him to explain how
it is possible that, …, well, I guess the list could go on and on. And, I probably
have missed some things in my above chronology.

It all just comes down to this,

Obama is either sooooo absolutely, totally, INCOMPETENT, or,
he just, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES.

In EITHER case he WILL be one of the WORST presidents we’d EVER have.

Maybe that won’t happen.

Posted by: Phil at October 29, 2008 12:22 PM
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