Democrats & Liberals Archives

Dreams From My Father: Impressions of the Memoir

I think any serious person who looks into this book to find evidence that Obama is some radical will be disappointed, unless they were hoping to find a radical moderate. The portrayal of people and politics in his book is no less nuanced than the portrayal he presents in his book, no less complex. What is the background that brought Obama to be the man he is today. Those who want to find that will not be disappointed.

I know have been some folks, like this guy, have been trying to suggest that William Ayers wrote this book. I highly doubt it. Regardless of the well-known compositing of some characters, his book is thick with people, places, and Obama's deep and exhaustive ruminations on their nature. More to the point, though, the direction Obama takes seems away from Black Power Movements, and Farrakhans and other trademark black radical groups, rather than towards them.

Hell, if you want to know his attitudes about Farrakhan, you have only to read his wry commentary on the Nation of Islam leader's attempts to sell a line of toiletries, where he comments that, as attractive as Farrakhan's rhetoric was to some black men, they still ended up brushing with Crest.

Obama's writing takes a warts and all approach, even with his loved ones. One is given various angles of Barack's father and namesake, later of Obama's grandfather and ancestors, of the culture of the different places and of Barack's ancestral home. Those who earlier accused Obama of throwing his grandmother under the bus would be horrified at the detail with which he goes into his families hardships, prejudices and attitudes. All that said, the love he feels for these people is evident, and he's not the least bit ungrateful for the support he's been given.

Obama doesn't spare himself either. All the tumultuous emotions and phases of his life are laid bare, as he negotiates between the extremes of his life and his attitudes. One thing I was struck by was the continual sad recognition of the troubles facing each place he called home, the racial strifes, the legacy of european colonialism and native tyranny in Kenya and Indonesia, the legacy of racial problems and social concerns here at home. The detail and empathy, combined with Obama's unsentimental diagnosis of the political and cultural ills of each place should be regarded as a strong qualification on foreign policy grounds. Obama's understanding of the world is among the least romantic I've ever confronted in various books, and at the same time one of the most humane. It is in this tension, and this conflict that we see Obama's radical moderation.

Those trying to portray him as a paragon of Black Radicalism will be confounded by his rather blunt deconstruction of those movements, their promises, and their failures. From his perspective, they might function to encourage people to break free of the crushing burdens that racist policies had imposed upon them, but at the price of preventing those people from dealing with whites and other races as a fact of their lives, an inevitable presence.

Obama's biracial identity and his diverse family force these kinds of confrontation on a regular basis. Multiple marriages and cultures place Obama in the center of a maelstrom of identity politics and rhetoric, and uniquely put him in a position to eventually see through much of it. The thought that Obama gives on why he joined Trinity United Church of Christ can tell you something about why he joined the church, but also why Obama separated from Rev. Wright when Wright got belligerent about the nuanced position that Obama gave for continuing his association.

Obama's book is not a book to be cherrypicked. To read it in fragments or appreciate it in just sections is to leave oneself open to missing different parts of Obama's actual arguments, and the peace he makes with his past, his ancestry, and America's promise.

It is not a hagiography, it is a very human work. If a protagonist in a story is measured by their response to the trials contained within, then what brings Obama to become a compelling figure is his difficult path towards acceptance of who he is, and who he can be. Though the story ends before he even really gets to law school, we see how Obama changes from the listless student at Occidental to the driven, successful figure he is now.

It's a pity Republicans have relied on the false stories and rumors, the salacious details and the innuendo. It's even more a pity that they approach Obama's work as if he couldn't possibly have written it. Nobody else could have written this work for him. Obama's heart and soul are in these pages, in their depths. Folks who seriously want to know what he is about should read the book.

Posted by Stephen Daugherty at October 16, 2008 2:50 PM
Comments
Comment #267117

Stephen writes; “Folks who seriously want to know what he is about should read the book.”

No thanks Stephen, as you said, “Though the story ends before he even really gets to law school” it obviously wouldn’t satisfy my concern of his questionable associations with terrorists, shady politicians in Chicago, a blaspheming preacher, or even his papers relating to his time in the Illinois legislature.

Posted by: Jim M at October 16, 2008 6:15 PM
Comment #267118

Now you’ve done it.
Sicilian eagle will be back with his not written by Obama October surprise that was going to win the race for McCain.
Oh wait a second —that was last week.
Oh well —Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 16, 2008 6:20 PM
Comment #267119

Jim
and are you asking the same about the other side?
— Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 16, 2008 6:22 PM
Comment #267121

Jim M-
I gathered from the section concerning his first period in Chicago that he did not think highly of the divisive politics there, regarding race or anything else.

An interesting little side note on the politics of Ayers. First, when he knew Ayers, he was just a respected college professor whose reputation as an authority on education reform was better known than his radical days. He was one of a number of people, Democrats, Republicans and independents on that same board. Obviously, most people didn’t consider him a terrorist at that point. Second, he did not begin his campaign in Ayer’s living room, he attended a function given on behalf of Alice Palmer, a person he was fond enough of that he knocked her off the ballot when she tried to shoulder him off when he ran for the state Senate. His real campaign was started out of a hotel.

It’s obvious that Barack Obama is a Democrat and not ashamed of it. He is a liberal. But I guess you’re so confident of your party’s ability to beat people that you won’t do real research on the way Obama thinks. Instead, you’ll settle for propaganda from folks in your party who have a short-term vested interest in beating Obama, and who are doing terribly even in places they shouldn’t be.

Have you ever considered that the Democrat’s strength is that they find out things for themselves, and readily share that, instead of going information anorexic on party talking points?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 16, 2008 6:57 PM
Comment #267128

I picked up a copy of Ayer’s memoir from a local library, and having gotten some way into the book, I have to wonder what the people who think Ayers wrote Dreams From My Father were smoking when they thought the styles were similar. The difference in style could be summed up like this: Ayers writes like a guy who gulps coffee, Obama writes like a person who sips it. Ayers writes without much self-consciousness (already a few TMI moments), Barack Obama, if his book were made into a movie, would likely only get an R-Rating for Language. Otherwise, he’s pretty restrained.

Where Obama critiques, Ayers tears into people.

More or less, the feel of the material is much, much different.

So why make the charge? Because to stuff the kind of facts and other materials you would require for Obama’s book to be so rich in detail, he’d practically have to be watching over Ayer’s shoulder.

I trust my feelings on books. Every author has distinctive rhythms, word choices, content choices. Ayers and Obama do not seem like the same person when they write.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 16, 2008 8:25 PM
Comment #267130

> it obviously wouldn’t satisfy my concern of his questionable associations with terrorists, shady politicians in Chicago, a blaspheming preacher, or even his papers relating to his time in the Illinois legislature.
Posted by: Jim M at October 16, 2008 06:15 PM

Jim M,

Hmmm…just what do you think it would take to alleviate your concerns? What proofs would satisfy you?

Posted by: Marysdude at October 16, 2008 8:37 PM
Comment #267134

Stephen, maybe Obama wrote Ayers’ book - that’s about as likely as the other way around. I don’t know why some on the right are in such denial that Obama writes his own books and for the most part writes his own speeches. Why is it such a point of contention?

Posted by: tcsned at October 16, 2008 9:05 PM
Comment #267136

tcsned,
Its because they want to paint him as a puppet having his strings pulled by Ayers and the far far left. There is little Honor left in the party anymore and no issues they can win on,so it all throw shit and just pray and hope some sticks.
Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 16, 2008 9:24 PM
Comment #267137

I thought Dreams From My Father was pretty good, actually, as such books go. I certainly didn’t feel like I was wasting my time when I read it as is usually the case with the boilerplate self-advertisements that most political memoirs are. Obama’s bad book is later The Audacity of Hope, but Dreams From My Father is compelling, largely because Obama’s early history and upbringing (like John McCain’s) is inherently interesting, and Obama puts the material to good use in his book.

I think that Obama is a better than average writer, but the problem with him has never been his writing but his politics.

In comparing Obama’s first book with his second one you can see exactly how he went wrong. He started out as a bright, curious, and introspective person, but as he entered the cut-throat world of Chicago machine-politics, he was sucked into the vortex of crude left-wing dogma. Whether out of sincere beliefs or self-serving opportunism is impossible to say without observing how he would actually govern without having to answer to his Chicago bosses.

Were he to become President, we can hope and pray that the Obama of Dreams from My Father would resurface and supplant the Obama of The Audacity of Hope. The first Obama might be reasoned with. The second one is frightening.

Posted by: Loyal Oppostion at October 16, 2008 9:37 PM
Comment #267145

LO-
Audacity of Hope is next. I’m sure I’d be better able to discuss the particulars of that when I’m through with it.

I think, though, that your fears are a bit overwrought. The Republicans have been scaring themselves about the return of real Liberalism for so long that the expectations for disaster are high. I don’t things will be so bad.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 17, 2008 12:54 AM
Comment #267167

I find it funny that people keep trying to pin the liberal label on Barack. Do you seriously think that MOST people are still scared by the liberal label? That is so old news. and anyway IMO Barack is not liberal but more moderate.

As for some posts here. Even if the stuff out there about Barack was true (which it isn’t), can anyone seriously say that McCain has clean hands. I continue to wonder why Barack doesn’t also do some of this guilt by association that the republicans are so fond of.

Unfortunately, some of the posters aren’t trying to participate in thoughtful debate but only wish to incite and inflame. Wow! Imagine that someone from McCain’s camp trying to incite and inflame.

Posted by: Carolina at October 17, 2008 9:53 AM
Comment #267184

Stephen asks; “Have you ever considered that the Democrat’s strength is that they find out things for themselves, and readily share that, instead of going information anorexic on party talking points?”

Simply because I don’t care to read Obama’s book hardly means that I haven’t visited his website and listened to him verbally outline his political beliefs. Why would the plans of a liberal appeal to me a conservative?

Stephen also writes: “The Republicans have been scaring themselves about the return of real Liberalism…”

Whoa, “the return of real Liberalism” suggests that we have been governed by liberals at some time in our history and that would have been when…?

Or, Stephen implies that there are “real” liberals and “fake” liberals. I would enjoy knowing more about this. Conservatives call our fakes RINO’S, by what name are yours called?

Posted by: Jim M at October 17, 2008 12:15 PM
Comment #267196

Dynos???

Posted by: Marysdude at October 17, 2008 1:29 PM
Comment #267201

I’ve read the second book and not the first. I don’t see what Loyal Opp could have found frightening. He communicated a pretty impressive understanding of what is fundamentally wrong with politics today.

Posted by: Schwamp at October 17, 2008 2:00 PM
Comment #267220

The following is an excerpt from a Judical Watch email. Would anyone care to comment?


Judicial Watch Calls on Barack Obama to Disclose Names of Donors

Last week, I told you about allegations of massive voter fraud involving ACORN, a radical leftist organization with deep ties to Senator Barack Obama. (At last count, I believe authorities are investigating voter fraud allegations against ACORN in 14 states. Now, the FBI is also investigating.) But so far, another scandal involving the Obama campaign has flown a bit under the radar. And it is equally disturbing. According to The Associated Press:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has raised about $3.3 million from contributors who did not list a home state or who designated their state with an abbreviation that did not match one of the 50 states or U.S. territories, according to records provided by the Federal Election Commission…

The $3.3 million total does not include donors who have given less than $200 and whose contributions do not have to be itemized. Some of that money could also have come from overseas. About half of Obama’s $455 million in contributions so far are unitemized. The campaign does not identify those donors.

In other words, while the evidence suggests illegal foreign contributions are flooding into Obama’s campaign coffers, we have no idea as to the extent of the problem because Senator Obama refuses to divulge the names of all of his donors. When asked about the decision to keep these donor names secret, Obama campaign spokesperson David Axelrod said, “We’re probably more forthcoming about disclosure than anyone.”

Not true.

While John McCain has had problems of his own for allegedly accepting foreign donations - see Judicial Watch FEC complaint here - to his credit, Senator McCain does publish the names of all donors to his presidential campaign on his Internet site, regardless of the size of the contribution.

Here’s the bottom line: The Obama campaign appears to be playing fast and loose with campaign finance laws and it has to stop. The FEC should immediately investigate these allegations. And, of course, in the interest of transparency, the Obama campaign should publicly list the source of every single campaign contribution. Frankly, it is suspicious that these names have not already been made public.

There is something deeply unsettling about the fact that foreign nationals can so easily corrupt our presidential election through illegal contributions, while American service men and women stationed overseas may be deprived of the opportunity to even vote (see above).

The Judicial Watch website is: http://www.judicialwatch.org/

Posted by: Jim M at October 17, 2008 3:31 PM
Comment #267232

Jim M,

Another red herring??? How many more before November 4th??? Don’t ya’ll get tired of this stuff? If you want to look for dishonest or dishonorable folks, you need look no farther than the mccain/Palin campaign…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 17, 2008 4:50 PM
Comment #267238

Sorry Marysdude that the article referenced from the Associated Press is not disturbing for you.

John McCain, according to the article, has practiced full disclosure. Why would we expect Mr. Obama to not comply with federal regulations as well? What is dishonest or dishonorable about the Associated Press or Judicial Watch?

Posted by: Jim M at October 17, 2008 5:01 PM
Comment #267244

BHO isn’t liberal or conservative. He is an opportunist. He has the views that his advisors believe will get him elected to the next higher office for which he is always running. What he has actually done in those offices is basically nothing. He makes a lot of claims for himself, then later has to backtrack when people find out the truth. As a graduate student, he was selected as the first “African-American president of the Harvard Law Review.” “In the wake of some modest publicity” he “received an advance from a publisher” to write the book which is the topic of this thread. You can find a lie on any page you open. Barack FitzBarack lives in a fantasy world of his own creation, and resents when people try to wake him up into reality.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 17, 2008 5:19 PM
Comment #267247

Jim M

Checked out your link. I see you have sent us to another conservative group that claims to be non partisan. I glanced through the links there and almost all appeared to be investigations of democrat issues. I don’t know about all the contributions to Obama’s campaign. Hell 455 million is a lot of bucks in a short time. I would imagine it takes some time to vet all those contributions out. Maybe they hope to do that vetting themselves before opening the doors to a bunch of sleazy right wing hacks. Personally I will wait for a less biased source to approach the issue and go from there.

Posted by: RickIL at October 17, 2008 5:34 PM
Comment #267252

RickIL, thanks for at least visiting the website. Yes, they are a conservative group with regards to legal issues and are…non-partisan. They will bring suit against law-breakers of any stripe where ever they find abuse and illegality.

Their litigation activity covers;

Litigation

Judicial Watch has filed more than 150 lawsuits against federal, state, and local agencies and officials across the country seeking to promote transparency, integrity, and accountability in government and fidelity to the rule of law.

What separates Judicial Watch from other watchdog organizations is its unique willingness and ability to use the civil court system to further these important, public interest goals.

Thanks in part to its aggressive litigation, Judicial Watch was named one of the top ten most effective government watchdog organizations by The Hill newspaper.

Judicial Watch is currently litigating the following issues:

*
Immigration Enforcement
*
Transparency in Government
*
Government Integrity
*
National Security
*
Whistleblower Protection
*
Other Litigation

Posted by: Jim M at October 17, 2008 6:14 PM
Comment #267254

Thanks Jim M for this comedic break !

While John McCain has had problems of his own for allegedly accepting foreign donations - see Judicial Watch FEC complaint here - to his credit, Senator McCain does publish the names of all donors to his presidential campaign on his Internet site, regardless of the size of the contribution.

Oh…what??? You were serious…?? Hm…

Posted by: janedoe at October 17, 2008 6:29 PM
Comment #267258

Jim M-

Why would the plans of a liberal appeal to me a conservative?

Well, first, it’s not merely his plans. It’s how he comes to his worldview- what his world view is. Second, unless your plan is to bombard people with a bunch of irrelevant BS, your strongest defenses, attacks, and counterattacks depend on the substance of the person’s plan. Rhetorically, you might be able to get away with unfair attacks, but the less wiggle room people have in terms of the truth, the more powerful the strategy.

In terms of real liberalism, I guess it depends on whether we’re talking about the evil force you imagine, or the historically well-known political policies that made American prosperous. It’s unfortunate that Republicans have so sullied the term in their speech and in their minds that they no longer even recognize that the real thing was practiced at some time.

Judicial Watch is basically peddling BS. The FEC basically says that Obama has better than 90% disclosure, which is better than McCain at 86%.

And lets get something straight: it’s not voter fraud, it’s voter registration fraud. The likelihood that anybody is actually going to make real votes from any of these false applications is vanishingly small. It would take a logistical operation that would be incredibly difficult to hide, much less pull off. Another important thing to consider is that the policy has generally been to AVOID investigations on the eve of an election, because it undermines both the election, with the active investigation scaring off voters, and it undermines the investigation, especially in the wake of the Attorneys scandal. David Iglesias, one of the US Attorney’s fired after he refused to push voter fraud prosecutions he knew he didn’t have to evidence to win, finds it astounding that they’re doing this.

The enforcement of voting laws has to be in a manner that does not give the impression that officials in the Justice Department are trying to alter the outcome of the election by legal action.

ohrealy-
Tell me something: do you have facts to offer, or do you want to just have the rest of us absorb these “lies” by psychic osmosis?

As for calling him a bastard? There is complication in his family life, to understate matters, but Obama Sr. was married to Barack’s mother at the time, according to the laws of the United States.

I think Obama has faced more than his share of realities, and one of the reasons why he’s winning right now is that he’s managed to deal with those realities better than the other candidates.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 17, 2008 6:55 PM
Comment #267261

Stephen

Last week I told you that the varsity was suiting up, I believe.

Have you visited the American Thinker yet? Like today?

Looks like a link has developed between Barry and Bill Ayers…more has come to light, and A list bloggers feel that it might have some legs.

If one sintilla of this is true…one sintilla..Barry is finished, and will be right beside John Edwards in two seconds flat, maybe quicker.

Me thinks the fun is just beginning.

Posted by: sicilian eagle at October 17, 2008 7:30 PM
Comment #267273

se,

What a flock of sleazebags your varsity team must be made up of.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 17, 2008 8:54 PM
Comment #267274

SE-
For heavens sake, provide a link.

I need a good laugh.

Never mind.

Still more stylistic horse-crap. He couldn’t even get truly similar ideas for all the sentence comparisons.

Like I said to other people below, the entire tone that Obama takes, his style, are completely different from Ayers. Yes, A-list Bloggers on the Right are picking up on this, but I don’t really credit those people with a lot of skeptical reserve.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 17, 2008 8:56 PM
Comment #267343

Stephen writes; “And lets get something straight: it’s not voter fraud, it’s voter registration fraud. The likelihood that anybody is actually going to make real votes from any of these false applications is vanishingly small.”

Stephen…The Associated Press report would seem to disagree.

The liberals defending ACORN’s fraudulent voter registration efforts have said again and again voter registration fraud doesn’t lead to voter fraud. Well, we didn’t have to wait till Election Day to find out they’re wrong.

Full story here; http://townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/10/17/acorn_voter_fraud_in_nm

Posted by: Jim M at October 18, 2008 12:30 PM
Comment #267357

kindly provide a link to the original ap story please.
this story give none and Amanda Carpenter does not seem to be a unbiased source
http://townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter

Posted by: A Savage at October 18, 2008 3:06 PM
Comment #267369

A Savage…this is more current, as of last night this decision was rendered and am sure you’ve probably heard it by now.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081017/NEWS09/810170273/-1/NEWS

Posted by: janedoe at October 18, 2008 4:21 PM
Comment #267409

janedoe,

This is from yesterday…I could not find anything newer. It is an AP write-up on ACORN and the FBI investigation…mentions NOTHING about ‘voter fraud’.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=213&sid=1498414

Posted by: Marysdude at October 18, 2008 9:35 PM
Comment #267416

MSNBC last night was jumping with all the crap that the GOP is stirring up. I do believe that fear is in the air, and this is a good way to shuck and jive the public while they are busy sleight-of-handing the truth around.
There was some ditzy congresswoman from Minnesota that was on calling for the media to investigate all the members who aren’t Republican, and challenge their patriotism!!! So many things have been blown out of proportion and it only serves to get attention on that and away from their losing efforts.

Posted by: janedoe at October 18, 2008 10:25 PM
Comment #267417

well dude, that’s because, as we know, there is no voter fraud issue, as much as McCain’s camp would like to have everone think so. Drop a word (registration)…change the whole scenario. Most people don’t take the time to learn what the F the difference is….they just take it and run.

Posted by: janedoe at October 18, 2008 10:33 PM
Comment #267419

reason I asked is Jim`s facts where
“Stephen…The Associated Press report would seem to disagree.”
so i followed his link — the end result was the republican party told the Associated Press that there was voter fraud etc, etc, etc, —
so I guess in his eyes if a democrat told the Associated Press that McCain boiled cats for dinner — it must be true.
— Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 18, 2008 10:50 PM
Comment #267420

mccain damned well better quit boiling cats!!!

Posted by: Marysdude at October 18, 2008 11:03 PM
Comment #267421

Well Savage, I guess we’re all seeing how selective reading can be beneficial. Just another part of their spin doctrine. I guess because there is only one word taken out of context, it still supports their argument.

Posted by: janedoe at October 18, 2008 11:06 PM
Comment #267422

LMAO…dang dude…that coffee I just choked on narrowly missed my keyboard….. ;)

Posted by: janedoe at October 18, 2008 11:08 PM
Comment #267441

>LMAO…dang dude…that coffee I just choked on narrowly missed my keyboard….. ;)
Posted by: janedoe at October 18, 2008 11:08 PM

janedoe,

Hey, I’m being seriouser and seriouser about the cat thingee. ;)

This is the way I look at it…the Republicans have chosen to believe Obama is a closet terrorist because of his sitting on a commission with a noted war protester, and they have chosen to believe that ‘voter registration fraud’ committed by hourly wage earners to pad their paychecks, somehow equates to ‘voter fraud’ wherein either there are illegal votes cast or vote counts are manipulated, why can’t I believe mccain uses boiled cat as an hor d ourve?

You are depriving me of one of my most sacred RIGHTS!

Posted by: Marysdude at October 19, 2008 12:48 PM
Comment #267445

Well dude, had I only known that I was treading on one of your rights….Ida not dun it ;) It just kind of made me want to cough up a furball when I thought about it..

You, of course, know that the R’s don’t believe Obama is a closet terrorist any more than we do….or any other of the idiotic and assenine things they try to shove down our throats, or any other direction into different orifices.
Their shock and awe, keep ‘em scared shit has pretty much run its’ course and people are getting wiser.

Posted by: janedoe at October 19, 2008 1:16 PM
Comment #267456

janedoe,

Okay…I admit it…I don’t REALLY think mccain boils cats.

But, I don’t agree that their shit has run its course…watched CSPAN this am, and the Repubs have formed a lynch mob for ACORN, because mccain said it was the single greatest threat to our American way of life.

I read this entry about Joe the Plumber on another blog site. I can’t give proper credit for it, but here it is anyway…”Poor Joe. The media just won’t leave him alone. He’s not a celebrity, he’s just a plumber. Stop badgering him about his political opinions. He’s not a pundit, he’s a plumber. So he doesn’t know the difference between 50, 100, or 250 thousand dollars… he’s not an accountant, he’s just a plumber. Joe is just your average, hard working, licensed plumb…. oops. Scratch that. OK. So he’s not a LICENSED plumber, but Joe is a hard working, tax-paying….what? Geez. OK fine. so Joe doesn’t pay ALL his taxes. Well, even with skirting the law on licensing and paying taxes, we can all agree that Joe is your average…Republican.”

Almost as good as, “mccain damned well better quit boiling cats!!!…”

Posted by: Marysdude at October 19, 2008 2:38 PM
Comment #267466

A Savage asks: “kindly provide a link to the original ap story please.
this story give none and Amanda Carpenter does not seem to be a unbiased source”

I found the Acorn rebuttal to Friday’s story in the following link. Acorn says they found “some” votes among the 28 that weren’t fraudulent and then cited “one”. Whether more will appear in the future; your guess is as good as mine. I would hope that neither Acorn or anyone else is involved in any attempt at fraudulent voting.

As for the author of the story I linked to, Amanda
Carpenter, being unbiased is hardly the point. Surly you and I would disagree about which political writers are biased.

http://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/apvoters10-18-08.htm

Posted by: Jim M at October 19, 2008 3:48 PM
Comment #267468

Well Savage, I guess we’re all seeing how selective reading can be beneficial. Just another part of their spin doctrine. I guess because there is only one word taken out of context, it still supports their argument.
Posted by: janedoe at October 18, 2008 11:06 PM

janedoe, read my reply to Savage…Acorn gives details on one vote out of 28 that they say wasn’t fraudulent. Some folks run their mouths with their brain in neutral. Is it difficult to drink the liberal Kool-aid with your foot in your mouth?

Posted by: Jim M at October 19, 2008 3:55 PM
Comment #267470

Jim M,

Wikipedia on Amanda Carpenter…

>Carpenter is an American conservative blogger, author, and commentator born in 1982[citation needed]. She graduated from Ball State University in 2005.[2][3] She is a reporter for Townhall.com and a former editor/reporter for Human Events. She has made numerous media appearances, including segments on the BBC, Fox News’ The O’Reilly Factor, Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld, Hannity & Colmes, and The Big Story with John Gibson, and MSNBC’s Tucker. She is the author of The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy’s Dossier on Hillary Rodham Clinton (2006, Regnery Publishing, ISBN 978-1596980143).[4][5]

To be honest with you, I wouldn’t…aw hell, just make up your own mind…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 19, 2008 4:01 PM
Comment #267472

Jim,
I found that link before I posted — I get my ducks in a row first.Why didn’t you try to do the same?
What you posted with 10 minutes of research turned into a case of a dog trying to eat its own tail because his belly was empty.
“ACORN says they were able to confirm that some of those allegedly phony voters were legitimately entitled to cast ballots.
Among them is 18-year-old Brittany Rivera. She attended an ACORN news conference to say she was scared to learn this week that she was labeled a “fraudulent” voter.
She said she mailed in her registration form on time after her mother picked up the form up for her at the nursing home where she works.
She said being targeted as a bogus voter is “crazy” and that it makes her “more determined” to vote in the future. “
Well at least they have created 1 new democrat for life I would bet.
Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 19, 2008 4:16 PM
Comment #267476

S.D., “I think Obama has faced more than his share of realities, and one of the reasons why he’s winning right now is that he’s managed to deal with those realities better than the other candidates.”

100% wrong again, it’s the economy and only the economy. W is your best friend now. JMcC is his own worst enemy.

“Obama Sr. was married to Barack’s mother at the time, according to the laws of the United States.”

Was bigamy legal in Hawaii? “Shacking up”, or common law marriage was, historically in Hawaii, but not with another wife living in Kenya, to whom he went back after he left BHO’s mother.

On “lies”, most people regard “Dreams” as a semi-fictional biography. I regard most of what you have written here since you became a devotee of BHO as ironic fiction. You only see truth in what serves the cause.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 19, 2008 4:28 PM
Comment #267477

Savage…one out of 28, WOW! Please track that story for us and give us the day by day count. Many of you have written that one fraudulent vote is too many and there are 27 more to go.

Marysdude…what a revelation about Ms. Carpenter. The link I provided showed it was from Townhall…hardly a group of libs.

Posted by: Jim M at October 19, 2008 4:30 PM
Comment #267482

Sorry Jim — the law of the land is its not a persons job to prove they are innocent — its the accusers job to prove they are are guilty. You chew your own tail. — Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 19, 2008 5:02 PM
Comment #267492

OK Savage…we’ll just leave it at that. The story is true about voter fraud (not voter registration fraud) having been committed in the NM primaries.

Posted by: Jim M at October 19, 2008 5:38 PM
Comment #267495

>The story is true about voter fraud (not voter registration fraud) having been committed in the NM primaries.
Posted by: Jim M at October 19, 2008 05:38 PM

Jim M,

Nope, it still results in ‘registration fraud’ and for the same reasons previously noted. Go back and try again. Jim, it requires a fraudulent vote to commit ‘voter fraud’…think about that for at least a minute, before you reply…Mickey Mouse has to actually attempt to vote, and then it may become ‘voter fraud’, unless, of course, Mickey is a legal voter……

Posted by: Marysdude at October 19, 2008 6:58 PM
Comment #267500

OK Savage…we’ll just leave it at that. The story is true Claimed about voter fraud (not voter registration fraud) having been committed in the NM primaries.
Kindly learn the difference Jim
let me ask you something - if I had come here and posted that voter fraud was being committed by the right with the same type of sources would you say true?

Posted by: A Savage at October 19, 2008 7:22 PM
Comment #267505

> if I had come here and posted that voter fraud was being committed by the right with the same type of sources would you say true?
Posted by: A Savage at October 19, 2008 07:22 PM

A Savage,

You may get the opportunity…have you seen the report on the California ‘voter registration fraud’ case? Push it just as stupidly as this crap about ACORN…the shoe may be on the other foot.

Posted by: Marysdude at October 19, 2008 8:09 PM
Comment #267508

Savage, here that is again:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story

Posted by: janedoe at October 19, 2008 10:18 PM
Comment #267521

janedoe,
I found the story that preceded that while looking into Jims link. at that time there was only one report so unlike some — I figured it would be wise to let the issue move though the pipe a bit before posting it as a fact.

“Push it just as stupidly as this crap about ACORN…the shoe may be on the other foot.”
Naw — if I did that I would be like Rush and his ilk.
I do wonder though if since its in print — Jim will treat it as gospel like he did with his link and paint the whole right will the same brush.
— Savage

Posted by: A Savage at October 20, 2008 8:19 AM
Comment #267537

Hi everyone, it is nearly election time in the US. So it’s time for you to send your message to American voters by posting a photo message in the hope of a better world.


Time is running out, and it might be the last chance for you to raise your voice.

Please do not hesitate to post your message or if you did so already, just send a message to your friends to view our page or site.

Take part in making OUR world better, take action now,

Give US a hope

GIVE USA HOPE!

www.giveusahope.com

Posted by: giveusahope at October 20, 2008 10:44 AM
Comment #267557

A Savage, I think that they believe they can tell us anything and we’ll be dense enough to just accept it as truth.
Of course, added now to that element of “authoritivity” that they drag around, is fear. They don’t like losing, and have prevented it with us before by their slimy methods. I also think that we have not even begun to see nasty !!

Posted by: janedoe at October 20, 2008 1:03 PM
Comment #267560

>I also think that we have not even begun to see nasty !!
Posted by: janedoe at October 20, 2008 01:03 PM

janedoe & A Savage,

It ain’t even started yet, but take a look at this (about half way down or so) and see what mccain thought about this kind of crap when he was on the receiving end…

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/mccains-robocalls-have-pa_n_136044.html

Posted by: Marysdude at October 20, 2008 1:31 PM
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