Democrats & Liberals Archives

Is This a Free Country???

Hollywood ModelHollywood ModelRepublicans believe in freedom! So do I!

I could argue and have argued that this country is not a free country. There are many good reasons to suggest that this country is no longer a free country. Bush lying us into war... Corporatism and corporate lobbyist with open check books full of campaign cash controlling our political choices... Corporatist news media manipulating what information people are given... The Bush Regime spying on Americans. The "Orwellian" Patriot Act was passed ostensibly to protect us from terrorism and John Ashcroft immediately started teaching police and prosecutors how to use it to go after criminals, in other words it was a "bait and switch"...
See my article:Illegal Wiretapping is Illegall
See also my article:Is It Time for Election Reform?l
See also my article:Does Bush Believe in the Rule of Law?
See also my articleThe Problem with Unresticted Spying on Your Own Citizens:
See also my article: Market Principals and Healthcare.

It is all relative. A case can be made that this country is not free, but we still have a right to have our votes stolen by the Republicans. The corporatist media control the mass media but the internet has made an end run around them for the time being so there is still freedom of speech and publishing. We still have hope of restoring the rule of Constitutional law. There certainly are countries that are much less free than we are. So for this paper, I will compare our country to North Korea and say that it is a free country.

This is a free country, but what does that mean??? Does it mean that a private for profit corporation named The Federal Reserve can freely run a legalized counterfeit operation creating money out of thin air which they are then "free" to sell to banks for 2 cents on the dollar. Each counterfeit dollar is effectively stolen from and dilutes the value of John Q Public's real money. Banks can then take these counterfeit dollars and loan them to John Q Visa card holder for 12 cents per dollar per year. Who wins on that deal? Clue: It ain't John Q. Grandpa Bush helped create this system... Ain't his black heart cute??? See: Zeitgeist: The Movie - Full, Final version

This is a free country, but what does that mean??? Does it mean that Presidents should be free to lie to the American people? See my article:What is missing from the "Bush Lied People Died" Senate Report???

This is a free country, but what does that mean??? Does it mean that Presidents should be able to out CIA assets for petty political gain and run a corrupt regime? See my article: The Forest or the Trees?

This is a free country, but what does that mean??? Republicans know what it means... They believe in spreading freedom at the point of the gun. They believe in free market economics. They believe that the rich should be free from taxation. They believe that the rich and powerful elite should be free from all government regulation and interference. They believe that the working class should be free from the day to day drudgery of having a job, free from having health care, free from retirement security, free from having a home to maintain... They believe in freedom - wild west freedom... Since the days of Reagan, the Republican mantra of deregulation has ran rampant. Clinton did not accelerate it as much as the Republicans, but did not role it back either. Republican policies have allowed industries and markets to run wild. These failed policies have accelerated under Bush, and would be taken to the max by McCain. These failed Republican policies of deregulation, and allowing companies to police themselves with colt 45s full lobbyist campaign cash strapped down to their thighs is exactly what led us into this financial crisis. Now you might argue for "more of the hair of the dog that bit you." Problem is, that is not what John McCain and the Republicans want. Joh does not want any of the dog's hair. John McCain wants more deregulation. He wants to bare the throats of the American people to this vicious predatory dog / wolf and allow it to bite them again. That is the kind of freedom that Republican believe in.

It is not the kind freedom that I b believe in. I believe in the freedom of safe, well regulated, well lit, well policed economic neighborhoods and market places where a person can take out his wallet and make a trade without fear of being mugged, robbed, raped, or sold poison food. See: China's poison milk kills three children and leaves 6,000 sick Now there is a Republican style deregulated free market at its best. That is John McCain's idea of a solution. Solution to what??? The drudgery of living. In China there are no regulations and John McCain wants none here. China is a deregulated free market Utopian paradise and John McCain wants to send our children to paradise - not mine, thank you very much!!! Plastic milk, anybody? How about some hydrogenated oil? Uh? Come on - Archer Daniels Midland Company (ADM) cares for you - they are not just out to make a profit - not them. See my article: Market Principals and Healthcare.

Posted by Ray Guest at September 27, 2008 5:00 PM
Comments
Comment #264797

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am kind of getting attracted to Palin. Call me crazy.

Ray how is it you have less freedom? What aspect of your life is different from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s?

I work in the financial services industry and would have to agree that there is less freedom for our customers. When then walk in the door it is not enough for a teller to know them by name. BSA, Patriot Act, SARS, make our customers feel more violated. But are they less free or just more protected from those that would do them harm?

Good post BTW

Posted by: TwitOfTheYear at September 27, 2008 6:55 PM
Comment #264799
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am kind of getting attracted to Palin. Call me crazy.

Okay….you’re crazy.
The attraction has to all be superficial, and by personal taste, because there isn’t much under the 60’s style hairdos!
There are a flurry of adverbs and adjectives out there describing her, none of which seem very flattering any more. The lipstick has faded, which leaves only………
Come on VP debate !

Posted by: janedoe at September 27, 2008 7:24 PM
Comment #264808

Back in the early 70’s while in college-I had a professor who said the more freedoms you have the more rules you have to have to govern the freedoms.

Posted by: Carolina at September 27, 2008 8:07 PM
Comment #264809

Then I guarantee your professor was a socialist. His statement explains it exactly, every aspect of the people’s life must be under the government thumb, and must be approved by government, even to the extent that freedom must be governed. Professor’s like this inaugurated the age of stupidity in which we now live, where all policy’s are based on feelings instead of rational thought.

Posted by: Yukon Jake at September 27, 2008 8:33 PM
Comment #264811

Yukon,

As in under the Patriot Act???

Posted by: Marysdude at September 27, 2008 8:42 PM
Comment #264812

TwitOfTheYear

You wrote:

Ray how is it you have less freedom? What aspect of your life is different from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s?
Oh, I don’t know, you mean other than being spied on, having every phone call I make put in an NSA data base, having NSA computers listening to phone calls to see if I say “Death to America,” reading every email, every article, every comment, monitoring of what websites I go to, what magazines I subscribe to, taking off my shoes before I can get on a plain, not having Habeus Corpus rights, being subject to being put on a no fly list if my farts smell bad, wondering if my Congressional Representatives have sold me out because they are being blackmailed because of NSA spying, wondering if I say or write the wrong thing or have the wrong name or facial features, if I will wind up on a no fly list that I don’t even have the right to challenge in court, having to apologize to Canadian citizens when I go on vacation there for being an American whose country tortures and detains without Due Process innocent people who were turned in for a bounty in Afganistan, getting nervous when I make large cash transactions at a bank, being afraid to check “certain” books out of the library… I don’t know - not much really. It is not what they actually do, in reality, sadly, I am not important enough to draw any real attention, it is the chilling effect and it is the potential for these unrestrained powers to be used against people who are important enough like Supreme Court Justices and Congressmen… Can anyone Larry Craig. Yes he likes a little variety, but was he targeted? Was he the one that was actually trying to stand up for us, probably not, but we don’t know do we?

You also wrote:

Good post BTW
Thanks.

janedoe,

I am glad that you said that. I am trying to lay off Sarah for the most part. I don’t want it to seem like I am picking on her. I am now more acutely aware of the sexism that Hillary suffered. I may even have unintentionally been part of it. I was certainly extremely critical. I now think that I may have been wrong. I just went to a Hillary rally for Obama. Got my picture took with her. She was great! She has certainly completely redeemed herself in my eyes. I want 8 years of Obama followed by 8 years of Hillary and I will work to achieve that.

Carolina,

You wrote:

the more freedoms you have the more rules you have to have to govern the freedoms.
Well said. I have to go study for a real estate license exam. I am retiring and am going to attempt to sell real estate in this market…


Posted by: Ray Guest at September 27, 2008 9:01 PM
Comment #264815

This article is a giant muddle of contradictions and inaccuracies.

The kinds of “freedoms” you’re talking about make you sound like a pretty radical kind of Libertarian. How you reconcile these ideas with being a Democrat is enormously unclear.

You think that the Federal Reserve is “a private for-profit corporation?” Huh? Care to explain that, because frankly, it makes no sense whatsoever. Do Democrats want to do away with the Federal Reserve, our central bank, which has been in existence nearly a 100 years?

The ONLY major politician I’m aware of that even comes close to sharing most of these views of yours is Ron Paul (who talks about the Federal Reserve, the Patriot Act, etcetera, very much like you do). And he’s a Republican… sort of. He’s actually more a Libertarian who happens to have an (R) behind his name.

As for your other complaints here—the Patriot Act, wiretapping, etc—these have all been renewed and even bolstered by a Democratic Congress. And this “right” to have our votes stolen by Republicans—give me a break.

You sound incredibly confused. A pretty extreme Libertarian, actually. There’s nothing wrong with that—don’t get me wrong. But why not just come out and express the allegiances which you seem to have? Calling your ideals “Democratic” ones, when they so plainly are not, is just downright strange.

Be a libertarian if you want to be one. There are many others as well, and they have some interesting ideas. My intention is not to attack libertarians. I’m not aware of any, however, who go around thinking that they are actually Democrats and that Democrats agree with their views.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at September 27, 2008 10:03 PM
Comment #264819

Well Ray, I’m not “picking on her” because of her gender….but because she is a twit.
Gender has nothing to do with intelligence or common sense, and this one seems to have been standing in the wrong part of the room when they were both handed out.
What’s the adage about running with the big dogs and getting off the porch..?? I know that there is a double standard and no matter how hard we try to change that, it isn’t going to happen. Hillary took her lumps every time she appeared somewhere, and she didn’t have a whole team trying to protect her and keep everyone away from her. This twit just can’t be trusted alone…she makes impromptu speeches that rival Bush’s…and that ain’t saying a whole lot. She is every bit the embarassment he has been, I’m just sick of the image that someone of that diminished capacity projects to the entire world.
Hey, good luck with those home sales, huh!??

Posted by: janedoe at September 27, 2008 11:09 PM
Comment #264826

janedoe, your comments are prejudiced by only a couple missteps by a novice to national politics. Give her a break, will you? What do you want from a woman who says the only difference between her and a bitch pit bull is lipstick?

At least give her the opportunity to demonstrate her canine intelligence in the debate with Sen. Joe Biden, before prejudging her :-)

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 28, 2008 12:08 AM
Comment #264832

Good one, David.
Personally I’m just hoping they frisk her when she enters the building!

Jane:

The attraction has to all be superficial, and by personal taste, because there isn’t much under the 60’s style hairdos!

Yes Jane, but surely you’re aware that some guys only become MORE attracted to a woman the lower her IQ happens to be? I think of it as sort of a Napoleonic Complex that some guys have — but it has to do with their own intellect and ego, rather than their stature. :^)

Ray Guest — a stellar rant! I agree with every word of it.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 28, 2008 1:13 AM
Comment #264833

Yukon Jake states:

Every aspect of the people’s life must be under the government thumb

Kind of like McCain/Palin’s idea that the government should decide whether or not a woman should give birth to a child. Could republicans get any more involved in the personal and private lives of ordinary American citizens?

Posted by: Tom at September 28, 2008 1:35 AM
Comment #264834

Janedoe for the life of me I just do not believe that the repub party will actually put her in a debate with Joe Biden. Look for Lieberman to take her place. The repubs are just to conniving to allow Palin to be let loose on the public in a debate after seeing her interview with Couric. I thought she was an SNL skit ran amok. The repubs cannot possibly be that foolish can they?

I don’t care how accepting the repubs believe the loyal conservative public to be they will not fall for the lack of ….my god that is scary.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 28, 2008 2:07 AM
Comment #264835

j2t2, of course you could be right! I’ve said this whole thing reminds me of the shell game. I guess there isn’t any rule, or restriction about changing the candidates to fit the contests. Wonder who they would put in for the next Pres. debate?? Guess if they move the players around fast enough we’ll miss something and they can slide more crap past us.
David, I liked the editorializing in your comment…. ;)…. and VV, you know she could have an M-16 under that hairdo with spare rounds of ammo………………….
j2..I’m sure that you’re right. They have just got to be using the bimbo to keep attention away from McCain enough to do some kind of shucking and jiving with him. We have to really be be on our toes. you know….desperate times call for….well, you know.

Posted by: janedoe at September 28, 2008 2:30 AM
Comment #264836

Palin’s a bimbo now. This is amazing.

I’ve seen this picture of Palin SO many times now. Anybody notice the towel-head wearing picture of Obama disappeared pretty fast.

Why cut down people for trying to stay close to thier roots? Is Washington so much better? Would she suddenly become a great American mind only if she spent more time in Washington and learned the talking points better?

Now please continue trashing the whore…

Posted by: andy at September 28, 2008 3:45 AM
Comment #264837

Andy,

She’s a whore, too? Wow!

Ray,

Sorry but saying freedom is:
safe, well regulated, well lit, well policed economic neighborhoods and market places where a person can take out his wallet and make a trade without fear of being mugged, robbed, raped, or sold poison food.

…..is not dissimilar to the rhetoric used to pass the patriot act.

Not that I disagree that we need security, but Wall Street has never been “safe” market. It’s always been caveat emptor. I just want there to be some pressure to make the rules the same for everybody rather than one market for the rich and another for the rest of us. I realize it will never be a completely level playing field, but I’d kind of like to know the SEC is on the little guy’s side.

While there are clearly problems with the FDA, sunshine is still the best disinfectant. I think the media is doing it’s job in that regard. An FDA large enough to test everything to make it “safe” may not be within the means of our wallet.
If you pick my pocket before I make it to the market, I’ll be safe from the muggers, but I won’t be able to buy anything, unless I mug someone else.

Posted by: googlumpugus at September 28, 2008 4:44 AM
Comment #264843

Ray -

I was against Hillary too…until my wife convinced me to go to a rally for her in Tacoma. Hillary stood there, no teleprompters, no coaches, no one deciding which questions she’d be allowed to answer…and she gave one hell of a performance.

She had the world situation, the economic situation, the stats, the numbers all down cold, rattling the facts off at the drop of a hat.

Me, I like to think I’m smart, but I got a humbling reality check that day. That girl is scary smart and good-hearted to boot, and I became an alternate state delegate for her. I do wish she’d got the nomination, but she faced a once-in-a-generation opponent.

I still strongly, strongly support Obama because he did get the nomination, but when Hillary runs again, I’ll be a delegate for her then, too.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at September 28, 2008 10:50 AM
Comment #264846


About the only freedom we have anymore is the freedom to consume and if we don’t take full advantage of that freedom, we know the consequences. An economy dependent on mass consumption and continuous growth HAS to be a roller coaster economy waiting to breakdown.

For as long as the PEOPLE are unwilling to assume responsibility for their government and depend on liberals and conservatives, they have no argument.

I have often heard is said, if you don’t vote, you cannot conplain about the government. In reality, the opposite is true. As long as those who vote continue to reelect the same liberal and conservative politicians, they have no right to conplain about the consequences. Well, they can conplain but, they should do it pointing at the guilty person in the mirror.

God bless the corporationists. Long, let their reign be, deep and continuous.

The VP debate: when the audience goes home, the cameras shutoff, the lights go out, Biden will still be answering the first question.

Posted by: jlw at September 28, 2008 12:48 PM
Comment #264847

Ray

Great rant! I think the one thing that bothers me most is just the notion that we need to be careful what we say. Saying the wrong thing or being seen in the vicinity of the wrong person at the right time could land us in prison forever with no right to pursue legal action. I am as far from a terrorist or threat to this country as any person can get. But there is always that chance that I could be mistaken as otherwise. We have to wonder how many people are already in that situation. The paradox is that we really have no way to find out. We most definitely have seen erosion of our civil liberties under republican rule. In the meantime the executive branch has managed to decrease their degree of accountability. Sounds to me like the recipe for a revolution in the making. Uh oh! Hope I didn’t say something with negative implications there.

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 1:04 PM
Comment #264848

jlw

The VP debate: when the audience goes home, the cameras shutoff, the lights go out, Biden will still be answering the first question.

At least he will be able to answer. I heard this morning that more dems than repubs watched the debate the other night. I didn’t hear any specific numbers but it makes me wonder how that will play into the vp debate. Will more repubs watch to see Palin? Or will the stay away in fear of what might come out of her mouth. I understand she is a good debater. A large part of being good is knowledge level. To date she has only demonstrated knowledge of campaign slogans and standard rhetoric. Should be interesting.

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 1:10 PM
Comment #264851

I agree Rick, on Biden being able to answer a question. Sooper Sarah is going to be on her own, unless her handlers who can get sneak peeks at the questions. I’m also hoping that the moderator is going to be a little more firm and controlling with the times allowed for answering. McCain just kind of bullied his way past those on several questions.
Does anyone remember this Gwen Ifill from the Edwards/Cheney debate? Will she be able to reign McCain in and hold him to the program?
Biden is seasoned and no dummy. Knowledgable on many fronts and used to performing under some pressure. Palin, on the other hand, we know really not much at all about. Only what we have been spoon fed by a small group of handlers and campaign coordinators. Her recent apperances with questions have been embarassing and ridiculous.
Bottom line is that it hasn’t happened yet….there are still a few days for anything to fall into the fray. Will any of us be surprised if they pull some kind of shenanigan at the last minute????

Posted by: janedoe at September 28, 2008 2:02 PM
Comment #264855

God I hate it when I feel compelled to defend someone that I totally don’t agree with. But here goes. I don’t believe Sarah Palin is stupid. She is ignorant about the workings of the world because she has been so sheltered and protected by living in a state that is far from the mainstream, in a small town, and by a religion that does not encourage free thinking.

She is grossly unprepared for the VP and should be held accountable for agreeing to this without considering her lack of readiness. She appears to me to be of average or above intelligence but that does not always grant someone common sense or mean they make good decisions all of their lives but liken that to stupidity doesn’t wash for me.

I think Loretta Lynn said it best in her movie coal miners daughter and excuse me Loretta for paraphasing you: I’m not stupid just ignorant.

Posted by: Carolina at September 28, 2008 2:33 PM
Comment #264858

We can all probably qualify as ignorant on many different fronts, and I agree that her isolation and insulation, to a degree, has left her lacking in many things.
She has been capable of achieving a number of things in her capacities in public office. Many of them seem to have been achieved in some underhanded ways, which take a certain level of brain power to accomplish. That doesn’t always equate to smart,either, but sly.
She is no Rhodes scholar, her resume’ is not terribly impressive, and she is truly naive outside her own little empire. The clips of her few interviews show clearly just how lacking in knowledge and unprepared she is.
She and McCain really do make a good pair, though, because her “desire” and drive to achieve a higher position of power is as great as his is. Their needs also both appear to be very narrow-minded and selfish……so most of us would be pretty much screwed if they were to succeed.
*** Submitted as my humble opinion…. ;) ***

Posted by: janedoe at September 28, 2008 3:00 PM
Comment #264864

Thanks all for your comments. I tried to post a response Veritas but something in my comment apparently triggered WBs spam filter and I can’t get it to post.

Posted by: Ray Guest at September 28, 2008 3:46 PM
Comment #264865

Carolina:

I don’t believe Sarah Palin is stupid.

Well, I’m afraid I do. I came to that conclusion after watching the whole of the interview Palin did with Katie Couric. Many of her answers not only showed a total lack of intelligence, but some didn’t even make any sense at all. Indeed, a person in possession of even average intelligence couldn’t have given such an interview.
Seriously Carolina, think about it. Couldn’t most of us who post to this blog have done a better job with those answers than she did? And wouldn’t most of us have been willing to be a bit more honest about our shortcomings, rather than try to lie badly and totally bullshit our way through them?

I was left with the sense that Sarah Palin’s entire career has been built on a bunch of GOP talking points and gimmickry, with an enormous assist from her looks. And that this woman has left the real work and heavy lifting that is normally expected of people who have risen to to the positions that she has up to other people to do — while she has played at being the figurehead.
In other words, I sense that Palin has got a lot in common with George W. Bush, though to be perfectly honest, I suspect it may well be even worse.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 28, 2008 3:51 PM
Comment #264873

carolina, VV, janedoe

I don’t think she is stupid in a conventional sense. I do however think she is less than adequate when it comes to an understanding of the knowledge necessary to be the top leader in this world. Or even the backup leader. She may prove us all wrong, but from what I have seen to date she appears way out of her league. There is a difference between having enough knowledge on any subject to instantly react off the cuff and that of having just enough knowledge to know that a situation exists. I believe that her seclusion in Alaska has largely kept her at bay from a lot of the workings of the rest of the world. Alaskans seem like an independent lot and independence tends to isolate one from the mainstream. That isolation has probably left her way behind on the workings of government at large and especially the ways of the world. It is quite obvious that she has been in secluded training. I think that pretty much says it all. Any candidate that can not step of that selection stage and go right to work untethered is not ready for the big leauges. Given that does anyone in their right mind really think she can be ready for the big show in such a short time?

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 5:59 PM
Comment #264874

Rick, you’re really going to have to quit putting such qualifiers ( right mind ) into the equation…;)

Posted by: janedoe at September 28, 2008 6:19 PM
Comment #264876

janedoe

Yeah I know. That right mind thing does tend to limit the playing field pretty drastically. It doesn’t include all those who would support her despite her inadequacies, but just because she is the chosen one. ;-)

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 6:32 PM
Comment #264877

I agree with VV on this one, inexperience is one thing even ignorance - not ideal in a VP but excusable and correctable. Being inexperienced and not having the slightest clue how foolish you sound when you give responses as the one’s she has given in the few interviews she has given is quite another. That, to me, is the very definition of stupidity. She can’t see the forest for the trees because a smart person without experience can see where they are lacking in knowledge and experience and works to correct it. What I have seen from Palin is a total inability to see that what she is saying makes no sense. Stupid is as stupid does.

I don’t think living in Alaska is an excuse either, there are plenty of smart people in Alaska. They have the same access to information as everybody else. She went to college in the lower 48 (several of them). She can get on the internets like everyone else and the series of tubes will bring all kinds of information to her. She just isn’t curious and when presented with information doesn’t seem to be able to comprehend it.

Posted by: tcsned at September 28, 2008 7:13 PM
Comment #264881

tcsned

I am not saying that she is a rocket scientist. What I am saying is that she does not appear to have the type of intellect necessary to fill the position of VP. If that is the definition of stupid, then I guess maybe she is. Perhaps we should call it politically stupid. And please don’t put me in the position of claiming Alaskans are stupid. I was not implying that. I was merely trying to say that as the extreme northern state their priorities are probably a bit different than those here in the lower 48.

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 7:57 PM
Comment #264883

Sorry RickIL - Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you think Alaskans are stupid, it’s just that I come from the Appalachian region, where that stereotype has plagued the people here for a couple hundred years for much the same reason that you cite about Alaskans. Here’s the difference as I see it. Having different priorities is fine - not wanting to understand international affairs or complicated economic issues (I still struggle with these myself) is perfectly ok with me. For some people if the issue doesn’t affect them directly they aren’t curious about them. That doesn’t make someone stupid at all. There are people I know who are extremely intelligent who aren’t interested in politics so they don’t know much about what’s going on in that arena. Palin obviously has different aspirations - she is a politician - she should prepare herself for her profession. I can only assume that she thinks she has otherwise she would not have accepted the nomination. If you are going to take a job you should not only be prepared once you get the job but also seek constant improvement. Someone I would identify as stupid is someone who thinks they know it all already as Palin seems to do. It’s not just that her answers have been stupid it’s that she doesn’t seem to have the awareness that they are stupid.

Posted by: tcsned at September 28, 2008 8:24 PM
Comment #264886

Sorry RickIL - Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you think Alaskans are stupid, it’s just that I come from the Appalachian region, where that stereotype has plagued the people here for a couple hundred years for much the same reason that you cite about Alaskans. Here’s the difference as I see it. Having different priorities is fine - not wanting to understand international affairs or complicated economic issues (I still struggle with these myself) is perfectly ok with me. For some people if the issue doesn’t affect them directly they aren’t curious about them. That doesn’t make someone stupid at all. There are people I know who are extremely intelligent who aren’t interested in politics so they don’t know much about what’s going on in that arena. Palin obviously has different aspirations - she is a politician - she should prepare herself for her profession. I can only assume that she thinks she has otherwise she would not have accepted the nomination. If you are going to take a job you should not only be prepared once you get the job but also seek constant improvement. Someone I would identify as stupid is someone who thinks they know it all already but obviously does not as Palin seems to do.

Posted by: tcsned at September 28, 2008 8:39 PM
Comment #264888

tcsned

Palin obviously has different aspirations - she is a politician - she should prepare herself for her profession. I can only assume that she thinks she has otherwise she would not have accepted the nomination.

I agree. I honestly think she has gotten in over her head. My guess is that her success in the somewhat limited arena of state politics may have given her a false sense of confidence that she was ready for national politics. She may be ready for national politics but it certainly does not appear that she is ready for this level. I have to believe that after Thursday night we will all have a much more defined opinion of Palin.

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 8:52 PM
Comment #264891

tcsned

Also, my mother is from Arkansas, my father is from Missouri. Whenever I tell anyone this I am automatically labeled as a hillbilly and all the attached presumptions that go along. To break it down even further. Of all the towns I have lived in during my soon to be 57 years I have literally always lived on the south side of the tracks. I know exactly where you are coming from.

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 8:58 PM
Comment #264900

There ain’t nothing wrong with us Arkies, Rick….lol

Posted by: janedoe at September 28, 2008 9:31 PM
Comment #264902

janedoe

There ain’t nothing wrong with us Arkies, Rick….lol

Whats up cuz? You know this means that we have to be related don’t you? lol

Posted by: RickIL at September 28, 2008 9:44 PM
Comment #264911

RickIL -

Y’all livin’ up in the Ozarks - ‘cause all of Ar-kansas is just Ozarks, y’know - well, y’all’re uptown to us po-folks what wuz raised down in the very deepest of the Deep South, the Mis-sipi Delta.

Heck, we never wuz sure whether y’all’re above or below the Mason-Dixon - we just knowed y’all’re them those folks from ‘cross the River…and y’all know we gotta cap-it-tall-ize the R-uh when it’s THE River.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at September 28, 2008 11:27 PM
Comment #264913

How funny!!! and howdeeeeee family!
Clinton, just a little north of Conway..and really close to Greers Ferry. Had family living on top of Sugar Loaf, when it was a mountain, and which is now an island in the lake.
Ain’t nuthin’ like findin’ kinfolk!
Oh, and by the way….family name is Smith….LOL

Posted by: janedoe at September 29, 2008 12:17 AM
Comment #264918

>She and McCain really do make a good pair, though, because her “desire” and drive to achieve a higher position of power is as great as his is. Their needs also both appear to be very narrow-minded and selfish……so most of us would be pretty much screwed if they were to succeed.
*** Submitted as my humble opinion…. ;) ***
Posted by: janedoe at September 28, 2008 03:00 PM

Strangely enough, I don’t see the ‘pair’ anymore…Did McCain not select the ‘9/11 governor’ as his spinmeister after the first debate? ‘O’ selected his running mate. but McCain selected some off-the-wall also-ran? Maybe McCain is paring the pair?

By-the-by, I was born in Missouri and spent several years in Arkansas…we’ve all got to be off that family tree that has only one branch…as proof, my grandmother was a ‘Smith’…Is you my sister? My mother? My daughter? Betcha you’re my cousin at the very least.

Posted by: Marysdude at September 29, 2008 7:27 AM
Comment #264919

PS:

Ray,

Sorry for getting so far off subject…your points are well taken, but I’m afraid it’s nothing new. We are currently losing freedoms faster than a speeding bullet, but we’ve actually been losing them from the outset. Our ‘freedoms’ were never ours to begin with…our country was into legal slave-holding while the ink was still drying on our founding documents. We lost ‘states rights’ in the 1860’s, and things have gone downhill from there.

A few of the added amendments have put a bump or two into the downward spiral, i.e., the 14th, etc.

It is our fault though, when we sit back and justify little things like ‘seat belt laws’, we are just asking for larger and more invasive infringements on our citizenship. It always starts small thin works its way up (for the want of a nail the war was lost?).

The two party system doesn’t help, because we get to depend way too much on the party we believe has our best interest at heart…the alternative is a multi-party system which advances chaos and anarchy, so we’ll just have to grin and bear losing more and more until we get tired of it enough to spring another revolution.

Posted by: Marysdude at September 29, 2008 7:45 AM
Comment #264954

janedoe, RickIL, & Marysdude,
A bunch of Arkies? I shoulda known - you Arkansas hillbillies make us Blueridge hillbillies look erudite by comparison ;) Just kidding.

Having lived all but 8 years of my 42 years in the South (the other 8 on Army bases in Germany) I have been disappointed that the modern Democratic Party has pretty much given up on the South and hand it unchallenged to the GOP year after year. Obama has made some inroads but our party really needs to think hard about ways of making poor, southern, rural whites feel included in their plans.

Posted by: tcsned at September 29, 2008 12:22 PM
Comment #264957

Is This a Free Country???
Nope, and it will be even less free under Obama. Get out of debt, cash out and prepare people, life is going to suck bad come Feb 09.

Posted by: kctim at September 29, 2008 12:35 PM
Comment #264964

tcsned

erudite The use of that word proves your point. I had to look that one up. There ain’t no self respectin Arkansas hillbilly gonna use any kinda verbiage that uppity. Damned blue ridge elitists! :-) lol

Posted by: RickIL at September 29, 2008 12:58 PM
Comment #264965

Part of my kinfolk on here…..whooda thought?
You know, “we” have been the butt of jokes forever, and chances are that may never change.
I’m sure to some people I have some elitist qualities, opinions or ideas, while I really have just basic needs and desires. My dad, single generation removed from “down there” still carried the principles of giving those you passed by a kind word, and treating others the way you want to be treated. I grew up in a Democratic family, where those party views best suited what my family wanted and thought most fitting. We were poor by some standards and wealthy by others. My brother and I were raised by our mom and dad, and not a TV or a computer(which, of course was unknown then). Our mom was there when we left for school and when we got home. We had three meals a day, two cars and went on vacation every year (usually “back home”). That was all done on just the one salary.
All I know is that I have grown to see things happen in this country that both anger and shame me, and make me mad and sad at the same time that we’re leaving our kids and theirs a piece of crap life to deal with.
These elitists running the show now, can in no way, relate to the suffering that a major part of the populace will experience for many years to come. Our other cousin, Bill Clinton, while having done immensely well, still held tight to Hope, Arkansas roots and principles. I just strongly believe that Obama is much like him in many ways, and I’m pinning a lot on a young man who is willing to step into the pile of crap that is DC right now and try to make it better for us.
Okay…so I’m through with my melodramatic moment…………stay tuned for the next episode…. ;)

Posted by: janedoe at September 29, 2008 12:58 PM
Comment #264973

janedoe

I just strongly believe that Obama is much like him in many ways, and I’m pinning a lot on a young man who is willing to step into the pile of crap that is DC right now and try to make it better for us.

Hallelujah cousin! This is no game for me either. I share and support your hope. I think that perhaps our nation has reached its low of lows in my lifetime. On a positive note, maybe we are close to the bottom and all this negativity that surrounds us will serve to bring us together as a nation of people rather than a nation of one party or the other. I think sometimes people really have to suffer in order to come to terms with reality. Kind of sad, but it seems to be in our nature.

Posted by: RickIL at September 29, 2008 1:30 PM
Comment #264983

Sorry Rick - I shoulda said highfalutin’ - I have been corrupted by too much book learnin’

Much agreed on your last post - one of the unfortunate consequences of living in a free (or relatively free) society is that change comes slowly and many times in response to a crisis and in this case several crises. This is a bad time to be president since there is so much to fix and the road is bound to be very bumpy. Kudos to Obama for standing up even if ego played a large role in his decision.

Posted by: tcsned at September 29, 2008 2:06 PM
Comment #265003


Illegal Wiretapping Is Illegal. Yes it is, and it is supported by our corrupt corporate/government composed of Republicans and Democrats, liberals and conservatives, and all of those who vote to enable them.

Is It Time For Election Reform? Election reform is long overdue but, liberal and conservative politicians have no intentions of reforming election laws. They have a good thing going and aren’t about to surrender their power over the people. They are supported in this by those who vote to enable them. Perhaps another round of fake election reform and another round of fake ethics reform.

Does Bush Agree With The Rule Of Law? Yes, Bush believes in the rule of law except when he doesn’t want to follow the law. In this reguard, Bush and Obama are in agreement. Illegal Immigration is illegal. WHERE IS OBAMA’S REGUARD FOR THE RULE OF LAW IN THIS RESPECT?

The Problem With Unrestricted Spying On Your Own People. There is nothing to be concerned about if you are a member of the ruling class or the enabler class. Just keep on getting over on the slave wagers and concern yourself with your own respectability, your own success. Just vote to enable your rulers, do your job and be a little more tight lipped; you’ll be ok.

Market Principles And Healthcare. Since the majority of us have compromised any principles that we may or may not have had for the sake of our corporate induced lifestyles, shouldn’t we let the corporations determine market principles? Doesn’t the same hold true for Obama’s corporate sponsored universal healthcare.

Ray: Why worry about Republicans stealing your vote when you are just going to give it away to Democrats who have proven that they are willing to compromise freedom with the Republicans. If you want more freedom, free yourself from the corporate/government induced lifestyle that is required of you. Get yourself a subscription of Mother Earth News and learn how to do it.

Posted by: jlw at September 29, 2008 2:55 PM
Comment #265006

tcsned

highfalutin’, now there is a word I can associate with. :) We are indeed in a sad state right now. I am sitting here watching CNN and all the talk is about the failed bailout vote. What makes it all so sad though is that in the midst of the supposed crisis of our lifetimes republicans are spending all their time attempting to place the blame on dems for the republican members not being able to get the necessary votes. This is very indicative of what has failed us for so long now. No one in Washington wants to take any responsibility for their actions. It seems republicans still are incapable of compromise. They have a lot of seats up for reelection and lord knows the mood of the nation is affecting their stance on this matter. Now isn’t that a novel situation. Republicans caring what the people think. Just when I thought I had seen it all. j2t2 recommended having a legislative vote every two years for all candidates. I agree it actually seems to turn them somewhat accountable to their constituencies.

Posted by: RickIL at September 29, 2008 3:02 PM
Comment #265039

> life is going to suck bad come Feb 09.
Posted by: kctim at September 29, 2008 12:35 PM

kctim,

I’m assuming by this that you feel pretty good about the way things are going NOW??

Actually, I agree that things will likely be worse next February than now, and for obvious reasons…but, they will start getting better, and continue in that vein until ‘O’ leaves office.

Posted by: Marysdude at September 29, 2008 4:19 PM
Comment #265068

RickIL, they all have seats up for election, which is why the Dems couldn’t even get their own party to vote for the bill. Aren’t the Dems the ones running the show? The ones in charge?

Is this an example of how they will lead going forward? Let the republicans be sniveling republicans and just get the job done if that is what you think is best for the country. But they didn’t and couldn’t, so now they are looking to blame someone else?

Someone needs to pass the buck, it’s my deal…

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 29, 2008 5:28 PM
Comment #265074

Dude
The things that Obama will do in his holy quest to make things better for you, are the things that will make it worse for me.
The small business I work for will more than likely close under Obama rather than fight the higher taxes and healthcare gun he will point at their heads.
I will have to redo my entire budget under Obama and figure out a way to pay more in taxes and still be as self sufficient as possible.
I will probably be better off just going back to tending bar and getting paid under the table in order to make ends meet again. Nothing like having 3 jobs when you have kids man.
Most importantly though, I have grown accustomed to the few rights and freedoms I have left and an Obama administration with a liberal house and senate will pretty much put an end to those.

If not for the ole lady, I’d move to a freakin cabin in the middle of nowhere and wait until the Obama/liberal house and senate nightmare was over.

Posted by: kctim at September 29, 2008 5:48 PM
Comment #265076

Rhinehold

The dems delivered 140 in favor. The repubs 65 in favor. You tell me by those numbers who is capitulating. You know as well as I that the dems will not do this on their own. It would be political suicide if this thing does not work. For the umpteenth time, republicans are running our country. They are viewed by and large as the party responsible for the crisis. Let them step up to the plate and show some accountability. Pelosi said what needed to be said. I was glad to hear it. And no I am not dismissing dem accountability. I supect that in the end if investigation is followed through there will be plenty of blame to go around. In the mean time the republicans need to drop their petty little hurt feelings and man up.

Posted by: RickIL at September 29, 2008 5:50 PM
Comment #265080

kctim

The small business I work for will more than likely close under Obama rather than fight the higher taxes and healthcare gun he will point at their heads.

If this economic slide is not managed properly your employer may go under before Obama ever gets a chance to sink it. You have years of poor republican policy and malfeasance to thank for that. You can rest assured that it will be years before this economy recovers. Businesses are going to fail whether you or I like it or not.

Posted by: RickIL at September 29, 2008 6:01 PM
Comment #265099

Northern Indiana where I live has the highest unemployment on record. Since tomorrow is my last day on my job due to plant shutdown, yep, darn right I’m ticked off too. Has the last 8 years been as good as the 8 years that preceded it? Not a chance for me, and no one I know either. First time in 40 years that Indiana is still in play in a presidential election and not just voting like sheep for the Republican nominee. Even Hoosiers can only get crapped on so long before they learn. Since I know how many houses I have ( one at least for now ) I am going to vote for the party that had to fix the deficit the last time. We can and will do it again.

Posted by: ray at September 29, 2008 7:30 PM
Comment #265104

ray, I’m sorry to hear of your misfortune. That is probably no great comfort to you, but there is little else to say.
I wish you well in securing another position and thanks for walking away from the flock, too.

Posted by: janedoe at September 29, 2008 7:48 PM
Comment #265106

Ray

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I read earlier on in this thread that you were retiring. Does the plant closing down affect those plans to any great degree? Sounds like the real estate plans may turn into a good backup at least once the housing market picks back up. I don’t think the last eight years have been particularly good for anyone other than the wealthy. I think a lot of people thought they could live on credit forever to maintain a lifestyle. Seems to me that conservatives telling them that credit and more credit is a good thing and not to worry everything is sound for all those years led to a lot of carefree lifestyle. Boy are we paying for that now. Good luck with those exams.

Posted by: RickIL at September 29, 2008 8:15 PM
Comment #265110
Take from the producers of society and dole it out to the scrubs who don’t want to work, or don’t want to work more than a 40 hour work week. Or the baby factories that churn out the chittluns to keep swimming in welfare checks.


Abortion is about the right to life, not about controlling women’s bodies. If conservatives really wanted to control women’s bodies, someone would legislate a bill outlawing revealing clothing for women over a certain body fat percentage. That would be about controlling women. With a tiny percentile exception, abortions result from flagrant disregard for contraception, or more accurately from women acting like gutter-trash.


Those are a couple of the most hateful, acidic statments for even a conservative!! Maybe it’s due to the isolation up there in the “last frontier”
I know, you’re a real Palin fan…you must just be really cranky after seeing what a screw-up she has been so far.

Posted by: janedoe at September 29, 2008 9:18 PM
Comment #265114

janedoe

Don’t bother with them jane, their conservative world has failed and is disintegrating around them. Even though the failings are of their own making they use liberals to avoid blame. As I have said before. Accountability knows no conservative.

Posted by: RickIL at September 29, 2008 9:48 PM
Comment #265115

UH OH hey guys we need to talk a little more positive about Palin. The groundswell of calls for her resignation from conservatives with a brain is growing and some are asking for her to take one for the team and resign.
That is the last thing we really want to have happen as Lieberman is much more formidable as a VP.

So lets look for the positive and cut her some slack, play up the good like Bill Clinton recently did, go easy on her for the debate. It seems the “we dont like her” thing is working a bit to well and the cons are getting wise to it.

Afterall if we are to have a chance for a country with more freedom it sure won’t be with McCain in the White House.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 29, 2008 9:52 PM
Comment #265119

Has Lieberman been seen recently?? Maybe he is sequestered somewhere and being brought up to date on things…and into the loop. Sounds just conspirational enough to fit, though.
Good thinking j2t2 !


Posted by: janedoe at September 29, 2008 11:06 PM
Comment #265166

kctm,

In a recession or a depression most small businesses are at risk. f your boss has an option of paying more taxes (which I’m not sure ‘O’ will institute, and neither are you) or going into a depression…which do you think he would chose?

Freedoms have been sliding backward since the inception. ‘O’ can have no greater effect on your freedom than you have already lost over the last 8 years, so if you break even, you’ll still come out ahead.

The cabin in the woods does sound pretty good…can I come too?

Posted by: Marysdude at September 30, 2008 11:15 AM
Comment #265171

Dude
The next President will raise taxes, I don’t think there is any doubt about that. Obama however, has many govt programs he must pay for. His healthcare plan, either sign up or pay a penalty or close your doors. I believe the owners of many small businesses will just take their money and close their doors rather than have govt dictate how they run their business and lose money.

I believe in all of our freedoms and rights, not just a few. Obama and a liberal controlled house and senate will have great effect on two of the most important: my freedom of choice and my 2nd Amendment rights.
About the only freedom I have had tampered with over the last 8 years has been privacy and since Obama signed on to it, that is not going to change no matter which one wins.

You and yours have an open invitation Dude. Gotta warn you though, I’m actually a pretty laid back person, in fact, some say pretty boring :)

Posted by: kctim at September 30, 2008 11:57 AM
Comment #265204

kctim,

With all the blather going around about how us ‘liberals’ infringe on ‘rights, and how we take from the rich to give to the poor, and how each individual should shoulder responsibility for themselves, you’d think those small business folks would know how important health is to workers and build in those cost factors when they develop a business plan. Slave holding came from the same mindset as that. Workers have every right to expect the same care from their employer as the tools, inventory and all other overhead expenses that are incurred in the course of business.

Posted by: Marysdude at September 30, 2008 2:28 PM
Comment #265312

Veritas Vincit,

You wrote:

Yes Jane, but surely you’re aware that some guys only become MORE attracted to a woman the lower her IQ happens to be? I think of it as sort of a Napoleonic Complex that some guys have — but it has to do with their own intellect and ego, rather than their stature. :^)
You have to give us a break. Testosterone has been scientifally proven to be neurotoxic. Think about the evolution of mammals in general and the human species in particular. Males have a very small physiolgical invesment in reproduction. We give one injecton and we are done.

Sperm have to be fast swimmers in order to succeed so they throw everything overboard that they do not actually need including genetic material - including genetic material related to intelligence. When the egg is fertilied the missing genetic material is replaced by copies of the mothers DNA, so we inherit more of our innate inteligence from our mother, but testostarone is also neurotoxic especially to babies which is why a high percentage of the mentally handicapped and savants are boys.

In human society, a man’s contribution to reproducion comes of killing the wholly mammoth and dragging it home to the women and kids. Standing in front of a woolly mammoth with a primitive spear is kind of a stupid thing to do. Something needs to drive him to do that. The women’s year around sexual receptivity combined with a neurotoxin that makes him hornie, stupid, and aggressive is just what is needed. Oddly, we inherit our intelience from our mother, but men like stupid women with ability to feed a lot of babies, and women like inteligent men who can kill the woolly mammoth and survive long enough to drag it home. I am the exception - let the buggers drink formula…

Numerous misspelling are deliberate. WB would not let me post this - spam filters think I am selin somthin - so I am trying to trick them…

Posted by: Ray Guest at September 30, 2008 11:00 PM
Comment #265314

Tricking them worked.

Posted by: Ray Guest at September 30, 2008 11:02 PM
Comment #265338

Ray,

Speaking of evolution…you DO understand that the male of our species has outlived its usefulness, right? You spoke of sperm as if it were still required in the natural order, but left out the UN-natural order, i.e., cloning, frozen sperm reserves, which by now would NEVER run out, etc.

Name a necessary function that still exists for we men are here to fill…not needed for the hunt, even a female vice presidential candidate can do that, and a sitting male vice president can only shoot his friends…heavy lifting? We have developed machines for that…procreation? Why do you think fundamentalists are still howling about all the ways men can be replaced? They fear that men will actually BE replaced. Which would make the bible moot…Aahhh! Darwin was right about natural selection all along…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 1, 2008 3:02 AM
Comment #265339

Come to think of it, man’s desire to prove he’s still useful, may be the biggest reason for our current financial situation…a few powerful men staking their claim to one last visage of maleness…and, look where THAT got us…LOL…

Posted by: Marysdude at October 1, 2008 3:06 AM
Comment #265362

marysdude,

Despair not. With stem cells and hormones we can grow a uterus and mammaries and be retasked…

Posted by: Ray Guest at October 1, 2008 9:25 AM
Comment #265395

Or there are always the comedic breaks you provide ;) Think about that for just a second…

Posted by: janedoe at October 1, 2008 1:06 PM
Comment #265440

No…I’m not gonna go there…not for you, not for no one…not even for a second…uh oh, too late, and now my manly feelings are hurt…janedoe, please!

Posted by: Marysdude at October 1, 2008 3:46 PM
Comment #265441

Ray,

Okay, Darwin might have missed it a little…where’s them stem cells?

Posted by: Marysdude at October 1, 2008 3:48 PM
Comment #265542

Ray, it’s late, so I’m going to have to keep this short — hopefully you won’t be offended by that, but it’s been a very busy week for this here lady. In my view, you have built an elaborate fantasy in order to justify regressive male behavior. But what you are describing is for the most part societal, not purely biological. Human beings are extremely good at adapting themselves to, well, everything. This is why we once managed to survive living in caves, and are still around to the present day.
So please don’t even try to make excuses for the blatantly stupid stuff, okay?
Men and Women and the children they create are (well, in my view anyway) the products of all kinds of intricate and complex evolutionary factors. And I think it’s pretty safe to say that men and women with strong, intelligent, curious, creative and inventive mothers and fathers tend to admire, and frequently are attracted by, people with those same highly desirable traits — generally speaking, of course.
As far as I can tell, where things can get all crazily derailed is when there is a problem with a persons self-esteem and ego — things which are frequently affected by rigid, outmoded, and often clearly destructive societal patterns. And this applies and is true of both men and women.

Progressives, being strong, intelligent, curious, creative and inventive people, consciously fight these rigid, outmoded, destructive patterns in order to move our society and our consciousness ever forward. And in doing so, allows human beings to keep evolving just as we were designed to.

Hope that makes sense.

Dude:

Speaking of evolution…you DO understand that the male of our species has outlived its usefulness, right?

NO! TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY DISAGREE!!!
I adore Men. Most women do, you know. Men are wonderful, beautiful and amazing, and the world would be absolutely terrible without you in it.
All that is really needed is for males to fully realize that the exact same thing is true for us women, too. When and if you do, you must, and ultimately you will have to start showing us the kind of proper respect that should automatically grow from such fundamental and basic fact.

Just my two cents.

And now I’m off to bed. Good night…

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at October 2, 2008 3:50 AM
Comment #265547

VV,

But, will you still respect me in the morning???

My thing about the male of our species outliving his usefulness is mostly ‘tongue-in-cheek’, but of course has a basis in fact…all things being equal:

* If all the women in the world were to suddenly die from some dread disease, could men survive?

* If all the men were to suddenly disappear, could women survive?

The answers to both those questions is all too apparent, and is the best reason in the world to think of Darwin as a brilliant MAN…

I’m not too sure how long it will take for the 6 billion people here on earth to figure out that it would only take half as much food and half as much energy to take care of the survivors, before genocide rears its ugly head…but if you women wake up one day and decide to do away with the useless half, please just cut us off…we’ll disappear on our own, and it will be a lot less painful…lol

Posted by: Marysdude at October 2, 2008 6:02 AM
Comment #265743

Dude:

if you women wake up one day and decide to do away with the useless half, please just cut us off…we’ll disappear on our own, and it will be a lot less painful…

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I have absolutely no desire to live in a boring world without men.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at October 3, 2008 4:30 PM
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