Democrats & Liberals Archives

The Non-Suspension Suspension

When it doesn’t look like a duck, walk like a duck, or quack like a duck, why call the darn thing a duck? John McCain is not being honest with the American people. He’s trying to look like he’s dropped everything, but he’s maintained a schedule of interviews, meetings and TV spots just as if he were campaigning. The only duck involved here might be the one he does with the upcoming debate, or perhaps even the Vice Presidential debate if he can manage it!

The first thing that might raise your suspicion about the suspension might be his instructions to stations to start airing his commercials again tomorrow. Apparently he doesn't know what suspended means. John Edwards and Hillary Clinton know. It means they stopped. It means no more pushing surrogates out, sending your campaign workers home, closing up shop at your offices. Turn out all the lights, Mr. McCain, if you really mean it. Cancel your meeting with supporters, cancel your interviews with reporters about your campaign.

Whatever legislation gets passed, if any at all, it won't be McCain formulating it. It won't be McCain negotiating the deal. All McCain's power comes from the fact that he's a candidate, and its not really constructive.

Was McCain in on the negotiations? Was he secretly behind the scenes guiding proposals through, and only coming to Washington and "suspending" his campaign when it was clear that things weren't going as they should? There are two problems with that. First, he did not acknowledge the problem until not much less than a week ago, and second, McCain hadn't read the Paulson plan, as of Tuesday of this week.

McCain has essentially joined the conversation late in the game, and is now playing around at being everybody's savior. He has even those who willingly stick up for him worrying. One section that stuck out for me, from this Fox News analyst:

McCain delivered an implicit ultimatum to Obama: suspend your campaign, cancel the debate, and high tail it to D.C. — or tempt the perception of being one who puts politics before country.

Ultimatums are delivered to defenseless foes, not to vital opponents. They are a form of intimidation intended to trigger subservience. That is why McCain now risks looking like a duplicitous bully with little interest in bipartisan cooperation, even though he has spent a lifetime cultivating the opposite image.

Whatever the case, the McCain campaign has put itself in the unique position of being unable to campaign before an election. Suspension means suspension. If one staffer shows up for work, this whole gamble turns into a media stunt.

Well according to Jeffrey Toobin, guess what this gamble has turned into? (hell, what it must have been from the beginning?)

Posted by Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 9:16 AM
Comments
Comment #264571

The Ol’ Maverick wants this financial mess off the books before an interview. I pretty certain he doesn’t want to be standing in front of a national TV audience at this time.

He must be “AFRAID” to recount to the American voter a senate life of unbridled “MAVERICK” support for the Ronald Reagan revolution of deregulation, free markets and non-governmental interference. He is an accomplice to this problem. It would be terribly embarrassing to admit after nearly 30 years in the Senate he was ineffective and useless in forseeing that businessmen are not saints who do no wrong. An thinking person would understand that without brakes, a wreck occurs.

The wreck is the only thing that “trickles down” in America. We all pay for the damages, but we never all enjoy the success.

Posted by: Mike Wrona at September 26, 2008 10:24 AM
Comment #264574

But Mike, his proposal includes a Blue Ribbon Commission! Don’t you understand? That changes everything! ;-)

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 10:45 AM
Comment #264575

Everyone is underestimating Mccain in this debate - and I think that has been his plan. It is primarily about foreign policy and Iraq has settled down out of the news. He will come out hard at Obama about how his surge has saved the day.

Posted by: Schwamp at September 26, 2008 10:45 AM
Comment #264577

Political savvy:”Take what they give you.”
John McCain takes what they give him:
Free air time by major news media(NBC, ABC, FOX, CNN),24/7, and he knows how to use them to his advantage.
And the polls reflect that.
If it were not for McCain’s control of every daily news cycle, free of charge, this race would have been over since inscription time.
He publicly stated that he was suspending his campaign; the news media just won’t let him do it.
Or rather, they won’t call his bluff by simply not covering one single thing that smells of John McCain
He has always said that he’s having fun in this campaign.
Can you blame him?
He is manipulating the media to his advantage, free of charge.
But then again, we’re talking about major news media, the same folks who are constantly played for fools every four years, and 365 days in between.

Posted by: steve johnson at September 26, 2008 10:53 AM
Comment #264581

I don’t think that the “surge” will hurt Obama. All he has to do is talk about all the things McCain got wrong about IRaq. Not even discussing whether we could have had the same outcome without the surge (kinda of like the survey that found that in neighborhoods that had ice cream parlors there was less juvenile crime so from that one could decide that to decrease juvenile crime in other areas all you would need to do is build ice cream parlors). If we are going to count up errors with regards to the Iraq war-McCain has far more than Barack. Even if you say Barack was wrong about the surge(which I don’t believe), McCain’s wrongs about the war are much higher. I think Barack should present a powerpoint listing all his wrongs about the Iraq war and all of McCain’s

I dont’ think McCain is worried about how he will do in the debate. I think he will do fine. I think he is worried about how Ms. Palin will do in her debate. That is why he wants to move the pres. debate to the slot set aside for the VP debate and reschedule the VP debate. Ms. Palin is not ready and they are freaking out.

After watching some of Katie Couric’s interview I can see why Ms. Palin’s numbers are dropping and why the mccain camp is panicking. It is scary to watch Ms. Palin and think that if something happened to a president mccain she would take over. It is also embarrassing that as VP she could be representing our country throughout the world.

Posted by: Carolina at September 26, 2008 11:08 AM
Comment #264583

There have been many words written on these blogs about whose to blame for the sub-prime market debacle. Here’s a headline taken from the NY Times September 30, 1999 and a link to the entire article. Give it a read and then let’s talk about Bill Clinton’s part in all this mess.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

By STEVEN A. HOLMES
Published: September 30, 1999

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 11:13 AM
Comment #264584

Steve Johnson-
The real problem for McCain is that you can only get so much emotional capital out of the marketplace of ideas before people start remembering the other debts you’ve incurred.

Or to say it more plainly, McCain’s pulled so many stunts that people will start to see a cynical pattern in his behavior and respond accordingly.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 11:16 AM
Comment #264585

“McCain’s wrongs about the war are much higher”

Good point Carolina. I have not seen a comparison between the two, could you post it please?

“It is also embarrassing that as VP she could be representing our country throughout the world”

They are not going to win, so instead of being emarrassed about who “could be” representing our country as VP, you should be embarrassed about who actually “will be.” Especially after the last two clowns who did.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 11:25 AM
Comment #264588

Jim M-
Fannie Mae, Fannie Mae. It seems to be your standard defense.

However, the reality is, this crisis is not about excessive mortgage lending. That could have worked out by itself. What it’s about is the snarling of finances by credit derivatives whose value, due to regulatory negligence here, is highly uncertain. The lenders know they’re screwed on many of them, but they don’t know by how much.

Because these lenders have business beyond mortgaging, and credit derivatives of this kind are employed elsewhere, other lines and categories of credit are at risk, and the banks are tightening lending accordingly.

THAT’S the crisis. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are more casualties of this than perpetrators. If you were saying that their bad practices made them more vulnerable, I agree. But they did not start this mess. The Private sector did. The Republicans and their deregulation and unwillingness to regulate properly is what let this happen.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 11:27 AM
Comment #264590

Carolina

It is also embarrassing that as VP she could be representing our country throughout the world.

To me the term terrifying comes up when I think about the possibility of a Palin as president. After yesterday there is no doubt she is well out of her league. A McCain presidency is scary. The two together quite frankly strikes me as funny in a mutt and jeff sort of way. But it also bothers me to think that these two might be the best our country has to offer in the form of republican candidates. Think about it, we have had the ultimate bungler along with dead eye Dick for the last eight years. Now they are offering up a man named McCain who doesn’t even know who he is, what he represents, and probably even where he is at anymore, along with a ditzy moose killing hockey mom who thinks she has had foreign affairs experience because she can see Putins head over the horizon. What the hell are these people thinking?!

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 11:37 AM
Comment #264594

Sarah Palin said to Katie Couric, “As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It’s Alaska.” PUTIN CAN FLY?!?!? What is this guy some sort of Russian Superman? Does he have a cape too?

Seriously, how can anyone defend this imbecile? We have had some mental midgets in government, heck, I had to suffer through 6 years of the racist, and new head of the GOP’s diversity outreach program, George Allen as my senator. But this woman takes the cake. Bush looks like Steven Hawking in comparison. I don’t think there there is any way that the VP debate happens. I would be surprised if there were presidential debates the way McCain is dragging his feet. It’s a sad state of affairs. C’mon GOP, can you at least send up some smart people next time?

Speaking of these Fannie and Freddie, isn’t it McCain campaign manager Rick Davis that has been taking money from Freddie MAC as recently as a couple of months ago, while working for McCain?

Of course, I forgot that everything is Bill Clinton’s fault - 9-11, Iraq, the economy, global warming, the extinction of the dinosaurs …

Posted by: tcsned at September 26, 2008 12:15 PM
Comment #264595

IT’S A MIRACLE! I was wrong on one point, it looks like McCain is going to the debate after all. Way to man up, Sidney!

Posted by: tcsned at September 26, 2008 12:20 PM
Comment #264596

“If you were saying that their bad practices made them more vulnerable, I agree. But they did not start this mess. The Private sector did. The Republicans and their deregulation and unwillingness to regulate properly is what let this happen.”
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 11:27 AM

I find it interesting that I can give someone the “smoking gun” from the pages of what is no doubt the most liberal newspaper in the nation and have you spin it into criticism of conservatives. The article praises sub prime mortgages, the harbinger of our financial troubles today, gives the Clinton administration credit, and you blame conservatives. No doubt during the Clinton years you were praising our great economy which in a large part was fueled by these excesses.

On another note, I would ask some of you to remove your political hat and let a little fresh air reach your brains.

The only person who can achieve a compromise between dems and reps at this time and on this issue of our financial crisis is John McCain. Obama and the dems in both houses were, and are, ready to endorse the plan put forth by President Bush and his administration with their slight revisions. Senate and house Republicans have balked and there will be no passage of any legislation without Republican support.

The dems know they have the votes to pass the Bush plan and obviously Bush will sign it. The problem for dems is that every member of the house is up for reelection. They must have a majority of Republicans on board to cover their ass in case this plan doesn’t work. Do any of you see a dem winning a house or senate seat if they pass this bill in a partisan way and by election day it is seen to have failed? Will they blame President Bush? Who would care if they and they alone produced the legislation that Bush signs.

Who can persuade Republicans…John McCain. He is the key to any resolution and he knows it. He is the leader in the issue and will decide the outcome just as a real leader should. Mr. Obama is merely window dressing and front man for the dems. I find it very interesting that it is dems and liberals who are supporting President Bush, the man they hate and revile, and republicans who are balking. Democrats in Bush’s pocket is hardly imaginable. There must be a lot of pork in this proposal making liberals and dems so eager for its passage. You can be damn sure there is nothing in this proposal that will help the working class and small business.

I heard a few minutes ago that Mr. McCain will add his intelligence, leadership and dignity to tonight’s debate. That’s great. I hope the topic of tonight’s debate has lots of questions on the economy. It will be clear that Mr. McCain is the teacher and Mr. Obama is the student.

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 12:21 PM
Comment #264597

“Of course, I forgot that everything is Bill Clinton’s fault - 9-11, Iraq, the economy, global warming, the extinction of the dinosaurs”
Posted by: tcsned at September 26, 2008 12:15 PM

Read the NY Times article tcsned, it’s about Mac and Mae and how the subprime mortgage market began. Twirling out of control with your statement above doesn’t increase the level of knowledge of anyone.

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 12:28 PM
Comment #264600

Jim M

I heard a few minutes ago that Mr. McCain will add his intelligence, leadership and dignity to tonight’s debate. That’s great. I hope the topic of tonight’s debate has lots of questions on the economy. It will be clear that Mr. McCain is the teacher and Mr. Obama is the student.

It’s pretty early in the day to be having cocktails Jim. ;-)

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 12:38 PM
Comment #264601

“The only person who can achieve a compromise between dems and reps at this time and on this issue of our financial crisis is John McCain.”

Right even though it hasn’t happened. The fact of the matter is there is no compromise with the house cons. I thank them for that. They have come up with a hair of the dog plan and unless they drop the nonsense will kill the bill. I hope they do. This will allow a more thought out and intelligent plan to develop and win the day. If the economy goes completly to ground then the cons will be able to reap the rewards of their obstructionism on election day. Hopefully the dems will not buckle to the house cons and the showboating of McCain on this issue. Afterall McCain is clueless on the issue and just flip flopping based on polls and who says what. We don’t need this conservative version of dignity, intelligence and leadership. 8 years is plenty.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2008 12:40 PM
Comment #264602

“The only person who can achieve a compromise between dems and reps at this time and on this issue of our financial crisis is John McCain.”

“This is a plea to President Bush … please get your party in line (and ask) Sen. McCain to leave town and not throw fire on these flames, and maybe we can get something done,” said Sen. Charles Schumer, the New York Democrat who chairs the congressional Joint Economic Committee.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 26, 2008 12:53 PM
Comment #264604

Jim M - sorry for the sarcasm. I did read your article.

While I agree that loosening the qualifications of who can get a loan has something to do with the problem, it doesn’t seem to me to be THE PROBLEM. It seems that the problem with the mortgage part of this crisis isn’t just the people who got the loans it’s what happened to them after the fact. I think the problem has more to do with the deregulation of investment practices for financial institutions than lower and middle income people getting mortgages.

If Clinton’s actions were so troubling why didn’t the GOP do something about it in the 6 years that they had a total grip on power. You would think that with the White House, Supreme Court, and both branches of Congress that they could have made some headway on this issue and a lot of others that they are complaining about now - say, energy independence.

The reason for my sarcastic comments is that it’s been 8 years since Clinton was in the White House and in only 2 of these 8 years did the Democratic Party even have a voice in the conversation. It just seems like a stretch to lump the blame on the 42nd president and not give at least an equal amount to 43 and the guy who has been there for 26 years.

Posted by: tcsned at September 26, 2008 1:00 PM
Comment #264605

So schumer doesn’t believe Arizona should be represented? He knows whats best for them, huh?
Typical coastal Democrat.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 1:01 PM
Comment #264607

Kctim:

It isn’t about Arizona being represented. It’s about McCain not being on the committees working on this. Typical denigration of facts.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 26, 2008 1:05 PM
Comment #264608

To reiterate to Jim and others:

Scarier than the bad mortgages are those unregulated credit default swaps that financier George Soros has been warning about. There are $45 trillion of those esoteric instruments sloshing around the global financial system. They were invented as a hedge against debt defaults, but even the financial smart guys don’t fully understand their impact or how to price their real value.
Posted by: womanmarine at September 26, 2008 1:07 PM
Comment #264614

Womanmarine
Those committees are networked and every member on them gets info from his fellow Reps. To act like those members go in there and act on their own is silly. Especially on an issue of this magnitude.

If its ok for Obama to have phone sex with Paulson all week over this, it should be ok for McCain to give his input for his state.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 1:17 PM
Comment #264621

“It’s pretty early in the day to be having cocktails Jim. ;-)”
Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 12:38 PM

You’re right RickIL, I’ll switch to tea as I want to be alert tonight. Without a doubt this will be the most watched presidential debate ever.

My hope is that both Obama and McCain are in top form and that the questions asked by the talking heads are relevant and fair to both. If McCain doesn’t do well we can use the excuse that he is old and sick which has been promoted recently by many writing here. If Obama doesn’t do well what is the prepared excuse for him?

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 1:32 PM
Comment #264622

Here’s an interesting read:

U.S. Titanic

Posted by: womanmarine at September 26, 2008 1:36 PM
Comment #264624

Jim M - If Obama doesn’t do well there is only one excuse - he couldn’t hit the ball out of the park if it was placed on a tee 10 feet from the fence.

There is only one excuse for whoever loses - they got beat.

Posted by: tcsned at September 26, 2008 1:39 PM
Comment #264627

kctim

here goes:McCain wrongs about the Iraq war- 13+
Obama wrongs about the Iraq war- maybe 1 if you count the surge

McCain-voted for the war, cosponsored resolution authorizing use of force in Iraq, expressed full faith in way it would be executed (war plan conceived and executed by Rumsfeld), did call for more troops sooner than some but later than some other people, thought it would be a cake walk, predicted war would be brief, initially argued that better technology meant fewer troops were going to be needed in Iraq, by June 2003 MCCain was in the mission accomplished camp, “when the people of Iraq are liberated we will again have written another chapter of glorious history of the USA, told fox news on June 11 2003 “but the conflict-the major conflict is over”, 5/12/04”yes today I do believe he’s done a fine job (rumsfeld), urged support for later discredited Iraqi exile Ahmad Ahalbis’ opposition group-Iraqi National Congress, advanced misleading assertions about Hussein supposed weapons programs and his possible ties to international terrorists.

kctim I can come up with more if you like.


Posted by: carolina at September 26, 2008 1:50 PM
Comment #264629

Carolina
Thank you for the lefts list on McCains “wrongs” concerning Iraq. It has been a while and I was not sure if they were still talking about the same partisan things or not.
Your list is a pretty good example as to why Obama won’t have that “powerpoint” presentation.

Womanmarine
Those committees are networked and every member on them gets info from his fellow Reps. To act like those members go in there and act on their own is silly. Especially on an issue of this magnitude.

If its ok for Obama to have phone sex with Paulson all week over this, it should be ok for McCain to give his input for his state.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 2:02 PM
Comment #264631

Carolina
Thank you for the list. It has been a while and I was not sure if the left was still talking about the same partisan points or not.
Your “list,” is a good example as to why Obama won’t have that “powerpoint” presentation, btw.

Womanmarine
Those committees are networked and every member on them gets info from his fellow Reps. To act like those members go in there and act on their own is silly. Especially on an issue of this magnitude.

If its ok for Obama to have phone tag with Paulson all week over this, it should be ok for McCain to give his input for his state.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 2:05 PM
Comment #264632

womanmarine

Scarier than the bad mortgages are those unregulated credit default swaps that financier George Soros has been warning about. There are $45 trillion of those esoteric instruments sloshing around the global financial system. They were invented as a hedge against debt defaults, but even the financial smart guys don’t fully understand their impact or how to price their real value.

I think you are wasting your time. These folks are focused solely on the mortgage crisis and fannie and freddie. It is the numbers surrounding the CDS situation that make me wonder if that 700 billion isn’t just a drop in the bucket compared to the total picture.

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 2:08 PM
Comment #264634

womanmarine

Another excellent link you provided. I was just wondering this morning why we haven’t heard anything from Greenspan on this dilemma. I was also wondering if perhaps he should held accountable right along with Paulson and Bernackie.

From womanmarines link: I can’t help but compare our country’s situation to the maiden voyage of the Titanic. Everyone has seen the movie, so can relate to the story. The captain (Alan Greenspan) has been handed the greatest ship (United States) ever made. It is unsinkable. The initial voyage across the Atlantic Ocean has drawn the rich elite ruling class (financers & bankers) onboard. But, the lower decks are filled with lowly peasants (Working Class) who are sneered at by those in the upper decks

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 2:17 PM
Comment #264635

RickIL
Which is worse?
Focusing on part of the problem or ignoring part of the problem?

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 2:20 PM
Comment #264643

Kctim

In order to address the problem one needs to have some comprehension of the whole problem. Not just a portion of it.

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 2:38 PM
Comment #264646

No Rick. In order to truly address the problem, one must acknowledge the whole problem.
Thats everybody who pressured for loans to those not qualified, to those who took out those loans, to those who bundled them all together to make money.

IF were looked at the whole problem, something would probably work.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 2:54 PM
Comment #264648

“In order to address the problem one needs to have some comprehension of the whole problem. Not just a portion of it.”
Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 02:38 PM

RickIl, I couldn’t agree more. For those serious folks on this thread, with a real desire for understanding, I recommend you give this a slow read. This excellent primer on our current mortgage crisis covers many decades and uses factual information. If you’re not serious about understand this problem, don’t bother as it takes focus, considerable time and an ability to set your political hat aside for an hour or so. Facts are presented regardless of the political toes stepped upon.

An added benefit is a definition of all those confusing terms being tossed around in our discussions.

The Subprime Mortgage Market Collapse:
A Primer on the Causes and Possible Solutions

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/bg2127.cfm

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 2:59 PM
Comment #264650

kctim

I think that by now the whole problem has been pretty well presented and acknowledged in these blogs by more than one person. If you choose to focus on just a portion of it that is your problem. It will however not allow you to see the big picture and further implications down the line.

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 3:02 PM
Comment #264651

Kctim:

He could have done that by phone, which I suspect he already was doing. Grandstanding didn’t help anyone.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 26, 2008 3:04 PM
Comment #264653

Jim M-
What smoking gun?

The mortgage crisis pre-dates the failures of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Unless somebody from that company got in a time machine and triggered the crisis with Countrywide and other similar lenders back a year or two ago, Those two institutions are more like the bleeding corpses than the smoking gun.

Additionally, let me put this plainly: The problem is not excessive sub-prime mortgages. They’ve been around quite some time. It’s not even their failure. It’s that these business got so underregulated that they badly overstretched their resources, and worse yet, did so using credit derivatives and securitized mortgages whose uncertainty of value have crippled banks ability to estimate their holding and act accordingly.

To blame subprime mortgages is to ignore one critical fact: if these people were given fewer ways to cheat both the consumer and their investors into these bad loans, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Nothing about policies giving subprime loans to the disadvantage says that the companies have to knowingly put crippling debt loads on those people. In fact, there were tougher laws prohibiting that in most states, but the Bush administration and the Republican Congress signed a law that pre-empted them.

I won’t exonerate Clinton from what he did. He signed the Bank deregulation most closely related to this into law. But he did that triangulating with the Republicans, who provided nearly all of its support in the senate, and twice as much support in the House If Clinton and the Democrats did wrong, it was in following the Republican’s lead.

I don’t say that as a Democrat, I say that as a person who even as a Republican believed in moderate but firm regulation.

As for what Democrats are doing in the House, it’s about right. But what they also don’t want to happen is to have your people come across and say that they turned down the opportunity to do something. The reality is, there’s pressure on our side, too, not to accept the Hank Paulson plan, at least not without some serious revision.

The trick of this is, though, if you guys got back the congress, and you had a Republican President, what would prevent what we saw during the last six years before the Democratic Congress arose? People haven’t forgotten about that. There, you people had the perfect opportunity to oppose Bush where it counted, and had it again and again. You could have brought oversight to bear on that rogue administration. You folks had to lose an election and become a minority to want to distance yourself.

But it gets worse than that, because your people, when the cameras and the focus of the nation have been upon them, have still been rubberstamping things, and the public knows it. Whatever bad publicity Congress has, the Republicans have the worst of it.

As for who will be the student, and who will be the teacher? We’ll see.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 3:07 PM
Comment #264654

Jim M

I have read enough about the mortgage crisis and opinions of what happened here to more than adequately confuse me. I do have an understanding of the situation. I do know that certain people in charge chose to ignore unethical and possibly criminal activities in the interest of profits. None of this changes anything. I am sure there is more than enough blame to go around. As I have stated several times here it astounds me that Paulson and Bernackie have not been asked to step down. I will not read your heritage foundation explanation of what happened. Could you have possible found a more biased source? I suggest you read up on just how the CDS markets affect this whole thing. They have a very real relevance in the big picture. F&F are only a portion of the problem. It seems that all you are concerned with is diverting blame. The rest of us are concerned about the proper way to tackle the problem, or even if we should. And as far as I am concerned allowing the people who were at the head of the financial institutions at the time of the so called crisis to continue to run them is imo completely and utterly absurd.

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 3:14 PM
Comment #264657

It looks like McCain caved on the debate with Obama tonight!

BTW, has anyone seen a Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd cartoon lately? Seems eerily familiar to a certain couple of political figures today…

…and anyone wanna guess where Yosemite Samantha would fit into the picture?

Bugs, quoting Teddy: “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”

Yosemite Sam: “Well I speak LOUD, and I carry a BIIIIIGGER stick!”

Talk about life imitating art….

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at September 26, 2008 3:22 PM
Comment #264663

Stephen and RickIL, it’s just a shame that you refuse to become educated about the entire history of this crisis going back to the mid 1940’s from a non-political primer.

Closed minds are incapable of learning.

There is plenty of blame to be shared by both parties and this article merely recounts the history without assessing the blame allowing the reader, if they have even minimal understanding, to decide for themselves how and why we have reached the point at which we are today.

Understand, my attempt here is to enlighten and not persuade. Your political beliefs will not be changed, but enhanced…and you will find yourself better able to discuss this issue from facts and not emotion.

The Subprime Mortgage Market Collapse:
A Primer on the Causes and Possible Solutions

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/bg2127.cfm

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 4:04 PM
Comment #264665

Have you guys looked at the polls?! McCain’s little Narcissistic Drama Queen Gambit was a complete failure with the American people — who saw right through it to the ridiculous political grandstanding it was. Besides, as folks here have mentioned, it’s not like he ever really suspended anything at all with his campaign.

John McCain goes into tonights debate looking like a befuddled, spastic, self-centered, melodramatic fool.
While Obama is calm, sure and steady as ever.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 26, 2008 4:11 PM
Comment #264669

Thanks Veritas for adding something knowledgeable to this discussion and not just inflamed opinion.

Your respect for a fellow American and human being is overwhelming.

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 4:20 PM
Comment #264670

Sooper Sarah is more like Foghorn Leghorn……watching the moose cirlce…

I just hope that McCain isn’t treated gently by the moderator because of his fragile-looking appearance. This isn’t going to end up a pity thing, I would hope!!!!!

Posted by: janedoe at September 26, 2008 4:21 PM
Comment #264671

Oh Magoo, not only did you receive more money from Fannie and Freddie, and not only was your campaign manager Rick Davis president of an advocacy group to beat down regulations for them — for which he was being well paid up until last month — but now we see that one of your senior economic advisers is married to the former top lobbyist for the Mortgage Bankers Association.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 26, 2008 4:34 PM
Comment #264672

Jim M:

Thanks Veritas for adding something knowledgeable to this discussion and not just inflamed opinion.

You’re quite welcome Jim. Here’s some more knowledge for everyone.

September 26th:
Gallup: Obama 48%, McCain 45%
Rassmussen: Obama 50%, McCain 45%
Hotline/Diageo: Obama 49%, McCain 42%
Res 2000: Obama 48%, McCain 43%

Your respect for a fellow American and human being is overwhelming.

Oh I really wouldn’t go quite that far. I absolutely loathe liars, fakes, neocons and greed-meisters.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 26, 2008 4:47 PM
Comment #264674

But lying, fake, greedy liberals are perfectly ok.
GObama!

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2008 4:56 PM
Comment #264675

Jim M
I still haven’t heard what the GOP did to right this ship in the 6 years they had total control over the government. If this crisis is indeed Bill Clinotn’s fault - why didn’t the GOP fix it when they had the chance?

I still don’t know where McCain stands on this issue. He got Bush to give him the White House photo-op he wanted but apparently said little of substance. The only alternative being floated by the House Republicans is more tax cuts, capital gains tax cuts, corporate tax cuts, and more deregulation. Man, I gotta say it sounds like their trying to treat a crack-head by prescribing him crack.

Posted by: tcsned at September 26, 2008 4:59 PM
Comment #264677
But lying, fake, greedy liberals are perfectly ok.

I wouldn’t say that, kctim. That very small percentage is definitely worthy of being loathed as well.

GObama!

America’s next president! Decent, Intelligent, Articulate, Competent, Level-Headed, and Respected Around The World.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 26, 2008 5:09 PM
Comment #264678

Jim M-
Non-political? The Heritage Foundation is a Right-Wing Think-Tank. They’re no more neutral than Move-On.Org. Their primer isn’t meant to enlighten me, but to persuade folks with a selective, intentionally biased history of these matters. To put it simply, the Heritage Foundation favors hammers, and therefore every effort at education will advocate seeing problems as nails.

The real problem with any history that tries to trace the problem back that far is that the volatility and crashes in the market have had their onset much too recently. Were those factors to blame, you would have seen problems earlier.

Instead, you see them basically after Congress falls into the hands of the Republicans, and they go on their deregulation/favorable regulation quest. It is you who needs to find out just what these changes in the law enabled, and what the consequences were. A large part of your bill at the gas pump is due to speculators enabled by such legislation. And that’s not the end of it.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 5:14 PM
Comment #264680

Glenn:

Yosemite Samantha

Jane:

Sarah is more like Foghorn Leghorn

Sorry, but I’ve got to go with Glenn on this one, Jane. Palin sounds exactly like a swaggering Pirate to me, too.

For instance:

Katie Couric: “I’m just going to ask you one more time, not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his [McCain’s] 26 years of pushing for more regulation?”

PALIN: “I’ll try to find ye some and I’ll bring ‘em to ye.”



Btw, truth on televison can be such a beautiful thing: Jack Cafferty Tells Us How He Really Feels About Sarah Palin Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 26, 2008 5:30 PM
Comment #264683

Oh, this is really hilarious:
McCain Wins Debate! They put this internet ad up this morning — before he’d even announced that he had changed his mind and decided to appear!

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 26, 2008 5:59 PM
Comment #264687

Stephen good article, the only thing suspended was belief. McCain has embarrassed himself but he at least got the media to look at him in the white house. To bad he did such a poor job by all accounts. With Obama there it didn’t do him much good. That is unless Obama needed the time to prep for the debate and doesnt do a good job because of it.
If only the media could stop playing the Palin interview all the time. It’s better than SNL.
I predict that due to family problems Sarah Palin will withdrawl herself from the VP candidate position just prior to the VP debates and Joe Libermann will be debating Joe Biden and become the VP candidate for the repubs now that this pathetic attempt to reschedule the debates failed.

VV thanks for the video, poor Wolf that actually was one of her better answers. Jack is right just when you thought we had hit bottom the repubs manage to lower the bar even further.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2008 6:13 PM
Comment #264688

VV

Thanks for the cafferty link. I didn’t get to watch today. I am starting to think that she is just a female version of GW. But in all honesty that probably isn’t fair to George. I think that even though he can’t talk well it is pretty obvious he is well beyond simple Sarah in the knowledge department.

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 6:28 PM
Comment #264689

VV

Well I guess there is no reason to watch the debate tonight since we already know who won. ;-) And hey I can see where it might be a good thing to have someone in the big house who can see into the future.

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 6:41 PM
Comment #264693

Stephen, I am reminded of a school chum who tried to write book reports on books he hadn’t read. All bluff, no substance. Is a factual history of events so scary, are you so myopic that you won’t allow yourself to read anything that doesn’t agree with your beliefs? Are you only allowed to read what agrees with you version of history. What’s that like?

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 6:50 PM
Comment #264698

Jim M-
I’ve read books on this kind of thing. I read a book once on the 1987 crash and a lot of its casualties. There’s a part in there that talks about arbitrage. Get ready for this: the reason that financiers urge for companies to do mergers is not to improve their books, but to make them worse. Why? It’s pretty simple: companies have to go into greater debt and get more credit extended to buy up companies. When they do that, their credit rating goes down, and they charge higher rates on the bonds they sell, making more money. You make junk bonds out of good bonds.

Sometimes in the scheme of the world, there are the reasons some give for thing and the reason they actually do them, and the two of them do not square.

I’m a person who clicks through on sources given by a blog. I chose to make my points on what I think are the strongest facts because it forces folks like you to spin and make snarky little statements about my not getting with the program.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 7:41 PM
Comment #264701

Obama and McCain aside, I can’t help but wonder if the Democrats are pleased with their Congressional leaders and their handling of these bail-out negotiations.

The Democrats HAVE the votes to put forth whatever plan they want to, and apparently they’re a lot closer to agreement with Bush than a minority group of Republican House members are. Bush will have no choice but to sign whatever they send up.

And yet we’re told that this small group of House members who DON’T have to votes to either put forward or stop any plan is what’s holding things up?

Why is that?

Simple cowardice on the part of the Democrats.

Even though they run Congress, they don’t want to take responsibility for anything. They’re simply afraid that this small minority of Republican congressmen might someday run against them on this issue.

Is that leadership? Is this what an Obama administration would look like with the both the House and Senate under Democratic control? They’re going to refuse to pass any legislation or take responsibility for any legislation because they don’t want their finger-prints on it? It’s pathetic.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at September 26, 2008 8:22 PM
Comment #264703

S/D, “I read a book once on the 1987 crash”

Did do read about who got elected the next year?

The topic of this thread seems to be BOO JMcC, to which I will add BOO BHO, BOO Babar, and BOO Naydar. But there is someone else in the race, someone willing to stand up for us and not swindlers and crooks. It’s Green Party Candidate Cynthia McKinney:

“We the people must now seize the time! We have always had the capability of determining our own destiny, but for various reasons, the people failed to elect the leaders who provided the correct political will. There was always some corporate or private special interest that stood in the way of the public good. And they always seemed to have the power of the purse to throw around and influence public opinion or our elected officials. The very foundation of the U.S. economy is crumbling underneath our feet. This represents a unique moment in U.S. history and we must now seize the time for self-determination—for health care, education, ecological wisdom, justice, and all the policies that will make a difference in the lives of the people including an end to all wars, including the drug war!

The crisis was staved off for a time for some of our major finance engines when they were able to obtain bridge funding from certain sovereign wealth funds. That option grows increasingly dim as The Federal Reserve is becoming the lender of last resort. This means that the people are becoming the owners of the primary instruments of U.S. capital and finance. This now means that the people have a say in how these instruments are to be used and what their priorities ought to be. The people should now have more say in how their tax dollars are spent and what the priorities of government and the public sector must be. We the people must now set our demands to ensure and promote the public good.”

http://www.gp.org/press/pr-national.php?ID=106

Sounds like a person worthy to be our president to me, the only good candidate this year, and not afraid to smack a fool. Let’s all cheer when she blows her nose!

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2008 8:44 PM
Comment #264704

LO

You are reaching. This whole deal was presented by republicans. And most would agree republican policy and lack of responsible leadership are responsible. Your republicans approached our nation with a request for help to assuage what they perceive as a crisis. The dems are trying to work with these folks to save all our butts from republican financial negligence. There are no guarantees this thing will work. If it does not work they simply do no want to be left in the dark, and held responsible for a republican created crisis. It is your party that can not get its act together. This is an all in or nothing approach. If dems go down for this thing not working then it is only fair that those who are responsible go down with them. Expecting someone else to take the fall for your party is indicative of selfish republican ideology which fails to take responsibility for failed leadership. Now that is indeed disgusting and pathetic.

Posted by: RickIL at September 26, 2008 8:51 PM
Comment #264708

S.D., that former classmate of mine who wrote a book on BHO, “Can A Catholic Support Him?”, is apparently on the outs with the Catholic church, and the right to lifers. He has apparently been arguing that BHO isn’t really pro-abortion, and was refused communion because of it. He is apparently trying to get right with the right by participating in a 40 day vigil outside of a medical clinic here. I don’t see how he can be here and in Malibu at the same time, so I guess this professor is absent with leave.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2008 10:33 PM
Comment #264713

LO-
What makes you think Democrats like or even are willing to settle for the current crowd? There’s a reason Obama got picked, that the Netroots crowd went for him.

But don’t take our disappointment in our people as a good sign for yours. Folks might not think much of the Democrats in Congress, but it’s because the Republicans are outshining them. Take whatever approval rating the Democrats have in Congress, and knock points off of that. That’s the pathetic thing. You folks are literally dragging the Democratic Majority down on purpose, but for all that effort, instead of making your folks look better, You’ve taken most of the blame.

Or put another way, it’s their inability to robustly stand up to you and your folks that’s making them unpopular.

ohreally-
And do you know how long that president lasted? Bush won by appealing to foreign policy, to law and order, to the Reagan tax revolt. He lost on the economy, four years later.

As for McKinney, her quotes don’t sound bad. But it’s one thing to talk about the problems, and its another thing to deal with the solutions. Obama isn’t merely a speaker, he’s a engaged leader.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 26, 2008 11:28 PM
Comment #264719

“Obama isn’t merely a speaker, he’s a engaged leader.”

I respectfully disagree. He’s a talker and a professional BS artist. In tonight’s debate he kept talking on and on about the wonderful programs that he would like to fund, proving JMcC’s spending accusations. He doesn’t know when enough is enough. In the current economic environment, government revenues will be down, and deficits will be up. JMcC looks like a president, your guy is the professor. (talking point courtesy of Paul Begala)

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2008 11:52 PM
Comment #264745

ohrealy-
When I here about what Obama’s doing in a given crisis, I typically hear about him doing consultations in the background. In regards to the meeting that McCain arranged, folks there described him as sitting there like a potted plant until near the end, and they describe Obama as peppering Paulson with questions.

I know about bullshit artists. I’m a writer and avid consumer of fiction. I’ve put a lot of study into the form and technique of writing. I know how selective use of information can deceive people on a story, or change the mood of it.

I know about the way words, rhetoric, and constructions of logic and fallacy can lead and mislead people. Communications and information theory are my degreed specialty.

McCain seems like the BS artist to me. He uses more emotional appeals, more appeals to fear. He directs more ad hominem arguments at his opponent. He talks constantly about his record, his long record, rather than simply let his experience percolate out of his command of the facts. Over the last two years, I’ve also seen Obama be more consistent on basic attitudes and position stands. You can dig up an article or clip from four or five years ago, and find his statements consistent with this major positions.

As for who looked Presidential? Even right-wing commentators worried that McCain came across unsympathetically. Barely restrained anger is not presidential, and we saw that all too often with him.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 27, 2008 10:45 AM
Comment #264762

ohrealy -

McCain did look good - but he does not look presidential. What I did see of the debate showed McCain continually saying ‘Obama simply does not understand’, and trying again and again to belittle Obama.

Obama, OTOH, was doing something only the BEST presidents do - he was reaching across the aisle by pointing out not only where McCain was wrong, but where McCain was RIGHT.

You see, ohrealy, one candidate showed a tendency towards leadership-by-contempt, and the other showed leadership-by-encouragement.

I saw the same thing so many times in the Navy. Almost always, commanding officers and their seconds-in-command (the executive officers) are in ‘good-cop-bad-cop’ roles. Without exception, the BEST commanding officers played the good cop and had their executive officers (however unwillingly) play the bad cop. The WORST commanding officers got it backwards. (when it comes to Bush and Cheney, Bush might have had the right idea…but his lack of intellectual curiosity and Cheney’s simply evil nature were a recipe for disaster)

Watching McCain and Obama, it is glaringly obvious which one would get it right…and which one couldn’t.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at September 27, 2008 12:18 PM
Comment #264772

Glenn

Watching McCain and Obama, it is glaringly obvious which one would get it right…and which one couldn’t.

I agree Glenn. McCain can’t contain his demeanor well enough to play the good cop. By the way I liked the analogy. I experienced the same in the Air Force. I was young at the time and didn’t realize it until later in life where I experienced it in the work force. I think it must be a common management tactic.

Posted by: RickIL at September 27, 2008 1:14 PM
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