Democrats & Liberals Archives

A Simple Solution

As our representatives wrangle over the Bush administration’s proposed $700 billion bailout of Wall Street investment firms, I started wondering if there were any alternatives.

It occurred to me that since this problem was caused by people defaulting on variable-rate loans, that instead of buying them all up, we should just force these companies to renegotiate the mortgage terms. It turns out that that's one of the ideas being floated. I think it would work -- and it's fair. This is Wall Street's problem, not mine.

But it looks like the Bush administration has Congress railroaded on this one solution. I'm glad, at least, that Republicans have come around to the thinking that the CEOs of those companies that accept the government bailout shouldn't get their hefty paychecks and bonuses. Too bad President Bush isn't among those who feel that way.

Paulson and the White House have objected to limits on executive compensation, saying limits would discourage successful firms from participating in the bailout. "These are not all weak or troubled firms that own mortgage-backed securities," said White House spokesman Tony Fratto.

Then fine. Those firms don't have to buy into the great bailout. If they're so strong, they shouldn't even be allowed to participate.

As I said, there are alternatives to a massive $700 billion taxpayer bailout of Wall Street. Hopefully they get the consideration they deserve.

Posted by American Pundit at September 24, 2008 12:53 AM
Comments
Comment #264085

I think alot of the defaulting on mortgages is people walking away because the house is now worth less than they owe. Mortgage rates won’t help that.

I am against the bailout. Let them fail. If there is no credit available for good loans from the private sector that is where the feds could step in and act as a bank if no-one else will.

Paulson is no guru. He spent the last two years telling us everything was fine.

Posted by: Schwamp at September 24, 2008 7:46 AM
Comment #264086

Paulson and the White House have objected to limits on executive compensation, saying limits would discourage successful firms from participating in the bailout. “These are not all weak or troubled firms that own mortgage-backed securities,” said White House spokesman Tony Fratto.

This is so absurd. All this wrangling and we are concerned about banks that are solvent and may not participate because it isn’t worth their while. I mean come on folks if it isn’t worth their while then they apparently aren’t in need. Isn’t this supposedly about a drastic need for help to survive. Are we attempting to keep the markets going here or set a record profit margin? Screw the parasites that are waiting in the wings to get their share whether they need it or not. This whole thing with each passing day looks more and more like an effort to defraud taxpayers in an effort to guarantee wealth for the upper echelon.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 8:09 AM
Comment #264087

Lou Dobbs had a fantastick idea, invest the 700 billion in shoring up the shortfalls of the homeowners who were, or are about to be, foreclosed upon.

Keeps the homeowners in their homes, keeps the property values stable and elevated, which in turn keeps the financial institutions solvent and their assets on the balance sheets more predictable. It is the bottom up approach instead of top down.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 8:11 AM
Comment #264109

David -

I love Lou Dobbs’ idea (we’re hold on by the skin of our teeth, too)…but it wouldn’t work that well. Businesses need access to credit. If our financial system tanks, then people (and lenders) have a tendency to hold what they have and not invest anything more, and those businesses that can’t hold on by slashing wages and jobs simply close down…and it becomes a downward spiral from there.

I hate to sound so pessimistic. I really do.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at September 24, 2008 12:12 PM
Comment #264111

There is plenty of pessimism. At times like these I miss Jack’s perpetual optimism.

This whole thing with each passing day looks more and more like an effort to defraud taxpayers in an effort to guarantee wealth for the upper echelon.

Not directly, but it will almost certainly happen incidentally to the overall effort.

Posted by: Schwamp at September 24, 2008 12:20 PM
Comment #264113

David Remer wrote; “Lou Dobbs had a fantastick idea, invest the 700 billion in shoring up the shortfalls of the homeowners who were, or are about to be, foreclosed upon.”

David, since I don’t know what Dobbs was referring to when you quote him saying “shoring up the shortfalls”, can you enlighten me?

Do “shortfalls” refer to helping with mortgage payments or helping increase equity in the home? Whichever Dobbs was referring to, does that rescue attempt mean that the home owner being rescued must, by law, live in the home until it is sold and then use a portion of the proceeds of the sale to reimburse government for the bailout? And, does it mean that the government becomes the second lien holder on the house?

Yet another question on a solution you describe as “fantastic”, by what parameters do we decide who is deserving of this bailout? Does it cover only the ignorant who fell for this scheme, or does it cover all including speculators and those who lied on mortgage applications.

Back in the early 60’s I was employed by an inter-state finance company and worked my way up to branch manager while in my early 20’s responsible for about two million in loans. What I learned about lending money was to measure each applicant by applying the three C’s of finance…Character, Collateral, and Capacity.

Character was the paramount consideration with Capacity (ability and intent to repay) being second followed by collateral. The lessons I learned early in life have guided my own principles in borrowing and were the standards of the 60’s, 70’s and beyond. What a shame those principles were thrown out the window.

Posted by: Jim M at September 24, 2008 12:30 PM
Comment #264124

Mr. Obama continues to tout his tax plan which promises “tax cuts” to 95% of taxpayers. His obfuscation is appealing to many who don’t know the details.

What Mr. Obam’s plan entails are actually refundable tax credits, which means cash payments to the 40% or so of households who don’t pay income tax. But those refundable tax credits are phased out as incomes rise, so his proposal amounts to “marginal rate hikes in disguise” on those with incomes as low as $27,000.

The favorite tactic of liberals is once again on display. Introduce “new rights” not found in our constitution, convince the suckers that they will benefit at the expense of some one else using the word “fair” with every other breath, and when the scheme is in place, expand it to entrap more people in government dependence.

This same scheme, having worked well with Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, will work with income redistribution and national health care.

The same liberals who convince American’s they are too stupid to plan and provide for their futures, home purchase and health care, suddenly reverse themselves and would have us believe these same stupid people can well manage the check they receive in the mail for a tax refund on taxes they don’t pay.

Liberals have no concern that these stupid folks who must be taken care of by government will not squander their tax refund on taxes they don’t pay. They don’t care because the reason for putting the unearned tax refund in the pockets was to buy votes. No strings attached welfare is catching on as the number of people dependent upon government largess is growing. Adding to the growing numbers are illegal aliens who also qualify for these handouts.

I wonder how long it will take liberal politicians to discover the huge voting block residing in our nations prisons. Granting voting rights and free money to this group may very well be the next liberal mantra.

Mr. Obama’s tax plan is intended to impoverish the rich without enriching the poor and grab power.

Posted by: Jim M at September 24, 2008 1:39 PM
Comment #264125

The only language that Congress and the Bush Administration understand is pressure from the American people.
Taxpayers must march and protest, legally and without violence, in front of Congress and the White House in numbers that will force Congress and Bush to forego the blatantly dangerous bailout proposal that Paulson has brought before Congress.
Congress and the Bush Administration must be pressured by the American people into a more sensible solution to the present financial crisis, other than indebting the American taxpayer further and compromising the future of every American student.
The internet should serve the purpose of calling for every American taxpayer possible to head immediately to Washington D.C. to march and protest against further indebting the American taxpayer with an absurd $700 million dollar bailout of unscrupulous individuals and financial institutions.
Millions of taxpayers should march and protest in front of Congress and the White House immediately.
Please send this e-mail to someone you know.
Thank you!

Posted by: Steve Johnson at September 24, 2008 1:44 PM
Comment #264127

American taxpayers should immediately take to the streets and protest, legally and without violence, against the absurd Paulson bailout proposal.
If taxpayers cannot make the trip to Washington D.C., then taxpayers should march and protest, legally and without violence, in front of every major news media, and to include the NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, and Fox television news network headquarters in New York, Los Angeles, and Atlanta.
The voice of taxpayers must be heard by Congress and Bush, after all, it is the taxpayer that will be burdened with a $700 bailout proposal that has no guarantees of success, and obvious evidence of risk.
American taxpayers cannot afford anymore risks and failures!
Please e-mail this information to someone you know as soon as possible!
Thank you!

Posted by: Steve Johnson at September 24, 2008 2:11 PM
Comment #264128

Jim M said: “Mr. Obama continues to tout his tax plan which promises “tax cuts” to 95% of taxpayers.”

As usual, your comment is a dollar short and a day late. Obama has been out there for a couple days now saying that his tax cuts may not go forward as he had hoped in light of the bailout and deficit it will create next year in his presidency.

Where is such honesty in McCain’s campaign? Oh, yeah, they are too obsessed with keeping Palin from being investigated or engaging in non-prepped interviews, to be forthcoming.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 2:12 PM
Comment #264130

Jim M, Dobb’s idea was a bit short on details, and I can’t recall the ones given verbatim. My understanding was that the value of the properties would be maintained by investing in the difference between what the homeowner could afford in the years before foreclosure or bankruptcy ensued and what the interest rate and principal were that exceeded what the homeowner could afford on their income level. It would cover ARM increases, principal difference between what the owner’s income level would permit and the actual sale amount, and it would make up the difference between what the homeowner purchased at, and current market valuation, allowing the homeowner to sell the home if financial or employment circumstances require moving.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 2:18 PM
Comment #264131

Glenn, all that matters is whether the corporate balance sheets can be assessed at a tradable valuation. Dobbs idea would do that. The cash infusion at the consumer level instead of the corporate level would stimulate the economy, perhaps better and broader even than infusing cash into the broad financial institution network, most of which has ample cash assets, just not the will to loan that cash against unknown collateralized securities backed by real estate mortgage paper.

Dobbs approach would put an immediate floor valuation under the dubious securities allowing lending to take place based on those floor valuations (i.e. face value of the mortgages with homeowners continuing to make P&I payments and the government making up the difference they can’t afford). Plus it stimulates consumer demand in a very broad fashion.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Comment #264133

David Remer writes in response to my criticism of Mr. Obama’s tax plan for 95% of Americans with; “As usual, your comment is a dollar short and a day late. Obama has been out there for a couple days now saying that his tax cuts may not go forward as he had hoped in light of the bailout and deficit it will create next year in his presidency.”

Sorry David, but I don’t get your daily updates and marching orders from the campaign or MoveON.org as you apparently do. However, you could have addressed the plan which clearly shows Mr. Obama’s duplicity and the inattentiveness of many voters.

David writes this to explain the plan he heard Dobbs talk about which David described as “fantastic”.

“Jim M, Dobb’s idea was a bit short on details, and I can’t recall the ones given verbatim. My understanding was that the value of the properties would be maintained by investing in the difference between what the homeowner could afford in the years before foreclosure or bankruptcy ensued and what the interest rate and principal were that exceeded what the homeowner could afford on their income level. It would cover ARM increases, principal difference between what the owner’s income level would permit and the actual sale amount, and it would make up the difference between what the homeowner purchased at, and current market valuation, allowing the homeowner to sell the home if financial or employment circumstances require moving.”

First, can anyone help me understand this babble? Second, thanks to David for helping us understand his definition of what he considers “fantastic”. I believe most of us could recall with great detail that which we perceive to be fantastic. Perhaps David has adopted the hyperbole of the Obama campaign.

Posted by: Jim M at September 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Comment #264134

Don’t you love when Liberals and Conservatives can come together on a topic?

Ten Conservative Concerns with the Treasury Bailout

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Comment #264136

Bush Mouthpiece Admits: They’ve Been Sitting on this Plan

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 3:06 PM
Comment #264137

The more this goes on the more it smells like 7 day old fish. I’m beginning to think the fossil fuel companies got theirs, the arms manufactures got theirs, the pharmaceutical companies got theirs (Plan B). Now the financial sector wants their slice of the pie, before Bush leaves office. Why else would they want to set it up so non-failing banks can get help they don’t need.

I haven’t heard about Lou’s plan, but I’ve been saying if the Fed paid off 25% of some of the mortgages, then the failing banks would have the capital they need. This would reward some dumb or greedy people that tried to buy more home than they should have. But it would not reward the crooks that loaned them money.


Posted by: Mike the Cynic at September 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Comment #264138

Freddie Mac Paid McCain Campaign Manager’s Firm Through Last Month

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 3:14 PM
Comment #264141

Breaking: McCain Campaign Suspends Campaign Due To Crisis, Calls On Delay For Debate

I honestly believe that John McCain is quite completely off his rocker.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Comment #264143

David,

I would usually be loath to dispute Lou Dobbs, but this notion gives me the willies. The essential problem in the market today is that the real estate run-up of the last decade and a half was really built on vapor. It’s not that these properties are no longer worth what the loans were taken for, it is that they never were worth that much.

We can argue what the root causes were for this (I have about 25 sources put together for the next article), but, by a combination of regulation, government pressure, loose credit policy, and the creation of a malignant market an artifice was sustained that magnified real demand, and thus, the value, for real estate. Fundamentally the market has to be able to come to grips with the real value of all this stuff that was inflated in the run-up.

Dobb’s idea, and frankly all the other ideas being floated by hyperbrilliant gurus in and out of government, simply seek to keep the artifice alive after it has begun to die by a million cuts.

To look at it another way, values of existing housing should plummet. If they reflect their real-world values so the market can function that will make them more affordable for the poor. The people who will be hurt the worst will be the people who bought into the idea one could trust securities designed by, and only understood by, particle physicists, and those who dove in on the craze for ‘mortgage backed securities’. Those people will mostly be the most wealthy for whom I usually seem to advocate. And, we don’t have to gut the dollar, as any of these ridiculous artificial solutions will.

Posted by: Lee Jamison at September 24, 2008 3:33 PM
Comment #264146
I honestly believe that John McCain is quite completely off his rocker.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 03:23 PM

I almost fell out of my chair laughing VV !
I heard them break into the hearings with that little tidbit, too, and had pretty much the same reaction. I went a little farther, though, with the idea that McC***ken.S**t found a way to avoid what was looming over him as a precursor to widely published public embarassment.
And of course, the spinsmeisters are already dizzy with the idea that “this is the quintessential John McCain”……”who puts his country first”….. What a colossol crock!!!!

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 3:50 PM
Comment #264149

I heard McCain on tv just a little while ago and was amazed at his level of stupidity. IMO he even came across as insincere. Hopefully the American people will see this for what it is a political stunt to try and get votes. Oh and also to keep him from debating Barack.

I am sure there will be some Americans that will think this shows him to be a leader. Whoever or whomever in his (mccain’s) campaign is advising him needs to keep it up cause it is only helping Barack.

Posted by: Carolina at September 24, 2008 4:14 PM
Comment #264150

McCain is too busy to debate. He is one of the few people that really understand this economic crisis.

Posted by: Schwamp at September 24, 2008 4:15 PM
Comment #264151

Lee,
Good comment. There is a lot of information missing for anyone to make a good decision. For example, using a large amount of money to re-purchase foreclosures and turn them into performing assets has a lot of merit. The US taxpayer would have a house with at least a possibility of bringing in rental income, or eventually being purchased. However, would it solve the credit problems of financial situations, and if so, how long would it take? How long do we have? Would the depressed prices of real estate stabilize, or continue to fall? Are the prices already so depressed that the CSD market would still fail using this approach? These seem like important questions, and I don’t know the answers.

After issues of oversight, structure of the bailout, and so on are addressed, it still comes down to a basic question. Are Paulson and Bernancke and Greenspan and Buffett right? Is this the right move? Is now the right time?

Like everyone, I have a lot of anger to direct… but that doesn’t change the situation. The most ‘knowledgable’ people out there- the exact same people who failed to foresee this in the first place- have made their recommendation. Many of these people I do not particularly like, and I don’t agree with their philosophies. I’ve heard about how we cannot come up with the money for universal health care or fund a free college education for anyone who qualifies, and yet, suddenly, we’re being told to piss away $700 billion or more because the financial sector made a hash of things.

It really sticks in my craw. I’m absolutely disgusted. Having said that, I still think we have to go along with an amended version of Paulson’s proposal.

Posted by: phx8 at September 24, 2008 4:20 PM
Comment #264152

janedoe

McCain is taking advantage of a situation to slither out of the debate at a time when his party is under intense scrutiny and blame for letting us down in the financial arena. Nothing more. This is advantageous to him. It gives him an excuse and he can claim he was needed in Washington. If that was so he should have been there from the get go. Pretty damned sophomoric if you ask me. I suspect it will not bode well for him.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 4:22 PM
Comment #264153

Will Saint Obama follow McCain to Washington? Or can he just vote “present” from where he’s at?

Posted by: kctim at September 24, 2008 4:24 PM
Comment #264154
McCain is too busy to debate. He is one of the few people that really understand this economic crisis.

Posted by: Schwamp at September 24, 2008 04:15 PM

And that is the second crock I’ve heard in less than two hours.

This is just an unfortunate, but advantageous occurance for McC to be able to weazle out of having to debate with Obama. Him being in the same room is going to have no more impact on the wrangling going on with the committee hearings and decisions.

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 4:29 PM
Comment #264156

Jinx, Rick, you owe me a Coke…. ;)

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 4:30 PM
Comment #264157

VV, janedoe, anyone

I now hear that Warren Buffet is shi—ing bricks because congress has not made a deal yet. The man spent five billion on Goldman Sachs thinking that this deal would be done. Now he is claiming that a faliure to get the deal done will be a financial Pearl Harbor. Yeah a financial Pearl Harbor for him and his ilk. The arrogance that surrounds this request from the wealthy is atrocious. I say it is time to let some of these companies fail. The end result if they go through with this bailout will be the creation of institutions that are too big too fail. It is time to bring these people back to earth and let the market correct by allowing these companies that did bad business to settle where they may. I am sick of the whole stinking process and feel as though we are being blackmailed by Bush and his ultra wealthy cronies.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 4:35 PM
Comment #264158

McCain is right to panic. There won’t be a seven figure bonus to be had on wall street this year. That is unacceptable!

Posted by: Schwamp at September 24, 2008 4:35 PM
Comment #264163

phx8

. Are Paulson and Bernancke and Greenspan and Buffett right? Is this the right move? Is now the right time?

I think it is the right time and the right move for a select group of people in this country. As Obama just said financial welfare for Wall
Street.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 4:47 PM
Comment #264166

B. Frank just commented that McCain’s feeling of need to return and “help” with the crisis in DC, is one of the biggest “hail Mary” passes since the pass, and Mary !!
Obama maintains that it is more important for the American people to see those who potentially could be in charge in the next few months discussing what their plans are. He wants to go on with the debate.
Time will tell now, and if McCain continues on this tack, then it will be very telling and we can watch that 9 point lead swell !!

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 4:55 PM
Comment #264169

Jane, Rick, Carolina, etc…

Isn’t it amazing what a clown show the McCain Campaign has become? Truly he and his running mate are a complete farce.
I always thought he wasn’t smart enough to be the president, but the real clown act started around the time he announced to America that we were suddenly all Georgians. Then went with the absurdity of picking Palin as his VP. Then he tried to call off the GOP convention because of Ike and everyone needing to wear their “American Hats.” But they still managed to put on a convention anyway — one that was chock full of snark, and utterly devoid of issues. Then he and Palin go into hiding from the press. His ads are a steady stream of lies and dishonesty. Then he claims the fundamentals of the economy are strong on the very day things begin falling apart, then turns around and calls for the head of the SEC to be fired — even though presidents don’t have the power to do that. His campaign manager has been taking wads of cash from Freddie Mac because of his access to McCain. Now the man wants to call off the debates and suspend his campaign?
I find this unfolding train wreck so Bloody Hilarious!!!

And then I think about how this rash, nutty and reckless nutball is still polling higher than he has a right to be, and might actually become the president — and that sobers me right up again.

Btw, Obama Adviser: We’re Inclined To Go Ahead With Debate

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 4:59 PM
Comment #264171

Nothing is going to change the law of physics and of Republican politics……. S**T rolls downhill ! It will stop at “us”, unless any on here are among the echelon of societal wealth and/or power.

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 5:02 PM
Comment #264172

Carolina said:

“I heard McCain on tv just a little while ago and was amazed at his level of stupidity. IMO he even came across as insincere. Hopefully the American people will see this for what it is a political stunt to try and get votes. Oh and also to keep him from debating Barack.

I am sure there will be some Americans that will think this shows him to be a leader. Whoever or whomever in his (mccain’s) campaign is advising him needs to keep it up cause it is only helping Barack.”

Well I just heard the response from BHO. And as usual, without his teleprompter, he was (uh, uh, uh)(duh, duh, duh) confused. This will make him look bad and McCain (he did it again) will look good.

Posted by: Oldguy at September 24, 2008 5:03 PM
Comment #264173

VV

And then I think about how this rash, nutty and reckless nutball is still polling higher than he has a right to be, and might actually become the president — and that sobers me right up again.

I hear ya. It is befuddling isn’t it. I think all this elusiveness is going to catch up to him at some point. His devout followers will proclaim him a financial messiah of utmost patriotism. The rest will see it for what it is. Sooner or later he and that moose murdering soap opera ditz are going to have to talk to the press aside from their scripted stints.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 5:06 PM
Comment #264174

Schwamp:

McCain is too busy to debate. He is one of the few people that really understand this economic crisis.

This totally cracks me up! Good one, Schwamp.
Yes McCain is needed because this crisis simply can’t be resolved without John McCain’s vast economic expertise and absurd brand of overwrought political grandstanding.
As for Palin, well, Letting Sarah Palin Answer Questions Is Very, Very Dangerous

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 5:08 PM
Comment #264175

janedoe

. S**T rolls downhill ! It will stop at “us”, unless any on here are among the echelon of societal wealth and/or power.

If anyone is running low, I have more than enough S**t to go around. ;)

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 5:09 PM
Comment #264176

MSNBC just announced, per the debate commission….that the debates, Presidential and Vice Presidential, are going ahead as scheduled !

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 5:11 PM
Comment #264178

janedoe

MSNBC just announced, per the debate commission….that the debates, Presidential and Vice Presidential, are going ahead as scheduled !

Yeah baby!! Heh heh heh, heh heh heh heh heh I love it!

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 5:13 PM
Comment #264180

All

What is even better is that GW is going on tv tonight to try and act like he knows what the hell he is talking about. Near as I can see that can only hurt McCain more.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 5:15 PM
Comment #264182

I’m sorely tempted to go buy a GIANT screened TV and languish in the moment.

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 5:23 PM
Comment #264184

Maybe I should stock up on some Depends…… ;)

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 5:28 PM
Comment #264186

Harry Reid:

“It would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation’s economy. If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership; not a campaign photo op.

“If there were ever a time for both candidates to hold a debate before the American people about this serious challenge, it is now.”

McCain: “But, but… I’m dropping in the polls! And I need a little rest! What do they expect me to do? Walk and chew gum at the same time?
Palin: “Hey, what if I go take your place! I can do it — and without blinking! Absolutely. Yup. Yup.”

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 5:36 PM
Comment #264188

AP -

I’m as open to your ideas as any at this point. My suspicion is that addressing mortgages alone won’t do much at this point, nor will renegotiation: it doesn’t much matter how companies lose their money if lose it they must.

At the same time, I have no confidence that the $700 billion will buy us anything at all. And I know what it will cost us: $700 billion in debt, passed on to my generation.

Posted by: Chops at September 24, 2008 5:38 PM
Comment #264193

chops

$700 billion in debt, passed on to my generation.

And when you lump it in with current debt due you can include your children and their children.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 5:58 PM
Comment #264196

Will Saint Obama follow McCain to Washington? Or can he just vote “present” from where he’s at?
Posted by: kctim at September 24, 2008 04:24 PM

Good question kctim, what a great move by Mr. McCain. While Mr. Obama was still polling his staff and reading instructions from MOveon.org, McCain acted in a very positive and decisive way as we expect from a leader. Of course Obama doesn’t want to be seen in the senate debating McCain for all the cameras to see. The old fox McCain will devour the novice Obama.

I believe it is a perfect opportunity to see the two potential leaders of the country debating real issues in real time with no scripts and no cheering fans in the background. Americans and indeed the world will get to see how our representative democracy works. More than anything President Bush or his administration could say, the working together of McCain and Obama in congressional session will restore confidence.

I heard Obama say that he can walk and chew gum at the same time and he talks by telephone with his party leaders as well as Paulson and Bernacke every day. Now is the time for leadership which McCain has shown by interrupting his campaign to attend to the nation’s business. Only time will tell if Obama will follow the leader Mr. McCain.

Tell me all you liberal seers, who do you think will be getting all the camera time and press, McCain or the absent Obama? Perhaps those in Washington discussing these urgent issues with Mr. McCain will occasionally make a conference call to get Obama’s views.

As for some who believe McCain is fearful of debating Obama; may I remind you of who has been calling for townhall debates for months. You really shouldn’t go there as any fool can understand who is fearful.


Time will tell now, and if McCain continues on this tack, then it will be very telling and we can watch that 9 point lead swell !!
Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 04:55 PM

Poor janedoe, she hasn’t read the internals of that pool. I won’t spoil your fun janedoe by telling you what they reveal as I love the over confidence on display by liberals.

Posted by: Jim M at September 24, 2008 6:02 PM
Comment #264198

Veritas provided the following quote; Harry Reid:

“It would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation’s economy. If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership; not a campaign photo op.

“If there were ever a time for both candidates to hold a debate before the American people about this serious challenge, it is now.”

One can always depend on Harry to say the wrong thing. One of the two candidates will have to live with the decisions made and how better to show leadership. And perhaps Harry forgets they are both still senators and that Friday’s scheduled debate is on foreign affairs. Harry understands that Obama is a novice, has no original thoughts, and will be forced to talk about these issues in real time…certainly not his forte.

Does anyone really believe that “presidential politics” won’t be part of this process whether the two candidates are there or not? Now we have Harry and Mr. Biden saying totally ridiculous things. Liberal desperation is showing.

Posted by: Jim M at September 24, 2008 6:14 PM
Comment #264199

McCain’s Economic Plan: Blurt Out Random Crap

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 6:18 PM
Comment #264201

To all who are laughing it up about McCain suspending his campaign and wanting to postpone the Friday debate. WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU FUNNY PEOPLE, THE ECOMOMY OR A STUPID DEBATE ON FOREIGN POLICY? IMO it would be benefical to your Presidential and V.P.candidate to be in D.C. doing the job they were elected to.

Posted by: KAP at September 24, 2008 6:19 PM
Comment #264204

KAP

I don’t know if you have ever sat through negotiations of any kind. I have sat through many long hours of negotiation. Hardly anything of this magnitude. But I can tell you that it is not easy and making progress sometimes seems impossible. These folks do not need side show campaign appearances adding distractions to any progress they have made. As Obama says, a president needs to be capable of multitasking. And hey wouldn’t it be wonderful for Sarah in training if they could move back the vp debates. McCain is not pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 6:36 PM
Comment #264210

VV, you’ll get more traction on your point if you use more objective articles than Huffington Post. Try and dervie your point from the article not make your point with it. Thanks for the smile though.

Posted by: Honest at September 24, 2008 6:55 PM
Comment #264211

RickIL, Mr. McCain has a long factual record of negotiation and compromise in the senate. If it’s not important enough for Mr. Obama to attend so be it. I am sure Harry Reid will give Obama an update every evening if he can take time out from fund raising.

Surely you understand that Mr. McCain will be getting all the camera and press time as a leader while Obama is on the stump eating cold chicken. Perhaps a good strategy for Obama is to send his “experienced” VP selection, Mr. Biden. Now that would be fun. Just imagine the gaffs this guy could make on real time TV. Face it RickIL, your guy is afraid to be in the same room with Mr. McCain, with no script or teleprompter, just as he was fearful of accepting numerous McCain invitations to debate in town halls across the nation.

I believe I heard Obama today say something to the effect, “just call me if you need me”. Obama, don’t hold your breath for that call, we don’t need you.

Posted by: Jim M at September 24, 2008 7:02 PM
Comment #264212

Honest,
I’ll post in any damn way I want to, and link to any thing I choose to. After all, I am a Democrat and I am posting in the Democrats and Liberals column. If you don’t like it, you can camp out over in the Red column and try to boss your fellow righties around over the way they post.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 7:04 PM
Comment #264214

VV, you’ll get more traction on your point if you use more objective articles than Huffington Post. Try and dervie your point from the article not make your point with it. Thanks for the smile though.
Posted by: Honest at September 24, 2008 06:55 PM

Well said Honest, I’ll second that recommendation.

Posted by: Jim M at September 24, 2008 7:07 PM
Comment #264215

This bailout is needed. The comments about the bailout show a complete lack of understanding about the issue. Most American’s, including those on this baord and our congressional leaders have no idea on how the banking system works. There are two fundemental errors in most all comments:

1. This is not a bailout of Wall street.
2. This will not cost 700 billion.

This is a bailout out of the entire economy. If you are a home owner this is a bailout for you; if you work for a company that sells goods to consumer’s that use credit this is a bailout for you; if you are in need of a car and plan to use a loan to do so this is a bailout for you; if you work for a construction company this is a bailout for you; if you are a farmer that uses credit to plant your spring crop this is a bailout for you; if you have a money market account this is a bailout for you.

Wall St. will beniffit, that is not the question. The question is do we want the entire credit market to fail and unemployment to shoot to 20-30% over the next year then let’s oppose the bailout.

The legislation is not perferct and needs more oversight and details.

The total cost will end up less the 200 Bln, these assets are worth something. It will be cheaper in the long run to go forward with this plan, with modifications, than to let the financial system crash.

DCC

Posted by: DCC at September 24, 2008 7:15 PM
Comment #264216

Jim M

Surely you understand that Mr. McCain will be getting all the camera and press time as a leader while Obama is on the stump eating cold chicken.

Face it Jim, John is tired and needs a break. People his age tend to nap quite a bit. I can’t imagine a better place to nap than at a long tedious drawn out negotiation that has been going on for five days already without his presence. He is so far behind that there is no way he could be of any particular help at this point. After all he has confessed to knowing little about the economy. I think it is safe to say that his actions to date have affirmed that. I have not seen any particular sign of strong leadership in his campaign to date. He spends most of his time hiding from the press and well his soap opera vp pick is under even tighter guard. No Jim, he is not leading, he is running.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 7:19 PM
Comment #264217

VV, no sense in letting the baiting tactics get to you. And there really isn’t much to talk about in the red column….I mean, McCain is still being McSame and trying to avoid things which overwhelm him. He’s just going to take a vacation in DC, and have his staff call in once in a while to check on the status. He is not a part of the actual legislative process, and all he can do is offer his opinion. And if the powers-that-be don’t like that particular one, he can give them a different one real quick!
I wonder what SlickSarah can use to get her out of her debate??

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 7:30 PM
Comment #264218

Rick, I wish you’d get outta my head…. ;),,,,or is it the other way around? VV, too….

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 7:33 PM
Comment #264223

Jane,
Haven’t you heard the latest development? McCain wants to reschedule the debate — on the exact date that the VP debate is supposed to be. John McClown is an unprepared student stalling for more time — both for himself and Governor Failin’.

DCC,
I suspect that most of us here are waiting to see exactly what the Congressional Dems can agree on and bring forward. And I think, no make that I know, that most of us here trust this administration about far as we could throw them, and don’t want them to be in charge of a mountain of our tax money, and what may need to be done to rectify the current economic meltdown. The Bushies and all of their Trickle Down BS, “Freemarket” followers have already done quite enough damage to this nation, in a truly appalling myriad of ways, thank you very much.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 24, 2008 8:09 PM
Comment #264228

I don’t trust the Bushies. I stated before that the plan needs added oversight provisions.

What I am saying is that not acting is going to cost more than acting. Not acting is the essence of freemarket thinking.

Congress must act quickly but prudently. Please do me a favor and listen to someone like Barney Frank on this issue. He is a liberal Dem that understands this situation very well. Most of the others in congress that I have heard question Paulson and Bernanke are embarassing; they do not understand what they are asking or what they should be asking.

Some plan that get’s the credit markets working again is needed. It is going to sound very large but in the end will cost much less than the initial price tag and could end up being profitable for the government.

This will cost less, by a large margin, than Iraq has.

DCC

Posted by: DCC at September 24, 2008 9:04 PM
Comment #264229

Propping up the housing bubble is against the long term interest of everyone but a few people. It’s part of the problem that we already have. Let’s not compound the problem. How about putting the national interest ahead of specific interests for once.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 24, 2008 9:08 PM
Comment #264232

Just a small point.

There are 100 senators. While we understand that 3 senators of the 100 will be away for many votes and discussions during a campaign they are in, wouldn’t you want them all there representing their country during something as serious as this, something the left has been saying is the worst economic crisis since the Depression?

Sure, both candidates could continue to stump and debate and take shots at each other (all the while adding to the fear that is being spread about our economy at precisely the wrong time) and be available via phone if need be.

Or they could recognize that a few days down from a campaign is no big deal in the scheme of things.

The left, who has been using the fear tactic that they rightfully excoriate the right for when it comes to terrorism have helped create the perception that this is the worst crisis ever and our very existence is on the line (I disagree). If that is true, though, I would rather see the candidates take a few days off and help be a fix to the problem, not undermine what is going on by politicizing it.

Reid is an idiot, btw. And his comments are helping prove it even more.

Of course, keep up the ‘chewing gum and walking’ line, I’ve heard it about 15 times already tonight on talk radio. It will poll great in those swing voters that want action and not talking, and who are getting very tired of the 2 year election cycle anyway. It is a great example of the mindset of the Obamabots.

Have fun!

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 24, 2008 9:24 PM
Comment #264233

DCC

This will cost less, by a large margin, than Iraq has.

Maybe, maybe not. There is no guarantee that this will do anything more than forestall an inevitability which may require future infusions of huge sums of cash. I think it is safe to say that doubt about all this is exactly why negotiations are still going on. You are allowing fear tactics to get your goat. Remember these folks who created this mess and who are asking us to cover their as—s are less than respectable sorts. The fact that they allowed any of this to happen says little of their abilities and even less of their character.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 9:30 PM
Comment #264234

Rickl,

I am not letting fear tactics get my goat. I understand how the financial system works. The largest problem we have right now is one of confidence and liquidity. The fed can provide all the liquidity to the banking system as it wants but if banks do not trust other banks then they are not going to lend. Short-term lending between banks and the commercial paper market are what keeps this economy running.

The commercial paper market is funded by money market accounts. When people like you or me pull our money out of these funds companies can not borrow or must pay very high rates to do so. Why? Because of a lack of confidence. The company looking to borrow could be a large, well funded firm with no exposure to the mortgage or banking system. The may need to money to meet payroll, finance inventory or purchase materials. What happens if they can no longer borrow? Layoffs.

Layoffs lead to more defaults and a further loss of confidence. It is a downward spiral that must be stopped. Not for Wall st. but for you and me.

DCC

Posted by: DCC at September 24, 2008 9:40 PM
Comment #264235

Rhinehold

I believe it is Bush and his people who laid all this on us. They are the ones trying to convince the world that the sky will fall if they do not get their way. I like you am not convinced. In fact I think letting it play out may be what is best for this country. But that is easy for me to say. On the other hand I sure would hate to find out that Bush and Co. actually know what the hell they are talking about. The problem here is that they have squandered the trust. It is kind of like the boy who cried wolf one to many times. Now we are faced with the old do we or don/t we trust them. And if we do trust that they are genuine, do we trust them to have the right answer. It is a quandary that might be just as well handled with the flip of a coin.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 9:41 PM
Comment #264239

DCC

Layoffs lead to more defaults and a further loss of confidence. It is a downward spiral that must be stopped. Not for Wall st. but for you and me.

I am sure you understand all this better than me. I have gotten quite an education this last week and do understand what it is they want and why they think it needs to be. The problem is that I am not sure it is what is best. I am not sure that creating such huge financial institutions is a good thing. That and the fact that this may very well not work, and may in fact exacerbate the problem does not sit well with me. As you say prudence is a must. I do however have to wonder if the timing of this thing and the manner in which they approached it has not served to induce a greater amount of fear than was necessary.

Posted by: RickIL at September 24, 2008 9:48 PM
Comment #264240

RickIL,

The reality is that most of this would have been a recoverable situation to the economy, much like the S&L crisis was, had Congress not enacted the Fair Value Accounting rules. Sometimes bad regulation is worse than none.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178603685354943.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop

The biggest culprit is a change in our accounting rules that the Financial Accounting Standards Board and the SEC put into place over the past 15 years: Fair Value Accounting. Fair Value Accounting dictates that financial institutions holding financial instruments available for sale (such as mortgage-backed securities) must mark those assets to market. That sounds reasonable. But what do we do when the already thin market for those assets freezes up and only a handful of transactions occur at extremely depressed prices?

The answer to date from the SEC, FASB, bank regulators and the Treasury has been (more or less) “mark the assets to market even though there is no meaningful market.” The accounting profession, scarred by decades of costly litigation, just keeps marking down the assets as fast as it can.

This is contrary to everything we know about bank regulation. When there are temporary impairments of asset values due to economic and marketplace events, regulators must give institutions an opportunity to survive the temporary impairment. Assets should not be marked to unrealistic fire-sale prices. Regulators must evaluate the assets on the basis of their true economic value (a discounted cash-flow analysis).

If we had followed today’s approach during the 1980s, we would have nationalized all of the major banks in the country and thousands of additional banks and thrifts would have failed. I have little doubt that the country would have gone from a serious recession into a depression.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 24, 2008 9:58 PM
Comment #264261

Lee, I am not sure from what you wrote, but I think I hear you alluding to either the Bush or Dobbs plan as a solution. It is not!

I have said, and will continue to point out, that the whatever plan goes forward to address the short term liquidity problem in the credit markets, will not solve the longer term fundamental problem.

Dobb’s idea, (and I will give this caveat to it up front, that it cannot be enacted fast enough to solve the short term credit liquidity problem)
has the benefit of shoring up some of the longer term problem of slowing consumer demand, and consumer demand is 60% of our economic engine.

This top down approach of Bush/Paulson’s may address the short term top tier financial industry problem but, adds nearly nothing to the longer term economic slow down caused by a contraction in disposable income and real asset wealth by the middle class.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 11:16 PM
Comment #264263

janedoe, WRONG!

McCain’s presidency depends the roughly 60% of House Republicans who are threatening to vote against this bail out bill. If Republicans kill this bill, and the economy locks up throwing 100’s of thousands more workers out of work, and causing small businesses to close up due to lack of borrowing and short term borrowing, McCain, a Republican, loses any chance in Hell of becoming President.

He isn’t going to D.C. for a vacation. He is going to D.C. to try save his campaign now threatened by House Republicans.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 11:21 PM
Comment #264266

DCC said:

“1. This is not a bailout of Wall street.
2. This will not cost 700 billion.”

Wrong and Wrong!

This is a bail out of Wall Street, and the short term economic future for Main Street.

No one knows what this will cost. It could easily cost only 200 billion after all is said and done and the government has sold off all the securities in a better market a few years from now. OR, it could cost us 1.5 trillion or more if the infusion of 700 billion proves to be too small an amount to both sustain liquidity in the markets and underwrite consumer activity which is 60% of the economic engine of our economy.

The fact of the matter is, Paulson and Bernanke have no way of assessing the real value of the securitized mortgages except in the most crude and rough estimate manner. The valuations are hidden, and they will change as time goes by while in the hands of the government, either increasing or decreasing in value depending upon a host of other variables which cannot be foreseen at this point in time.

The real inflation rate is well above 10%, the real unemployment rate is double or more what the government now calculates. The inflation rate is dramatically higher than what government voodoo calculations represent. All these and other false data measures make peering into the future and assessing future worth of unseen and undetailed securitized mortgage bundles nearly impossible, except by galactically rough estimates.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 11:32 PM
Comment #264267

David,
“… the longer term economic slow down caused by a contraction in disposable income and real asset wealth…

Exactly. The Fed is maintaining liquidity in most of the usual markets, and trying to prevent credit from freezing. Supposedly, the $700 billion will re-liquify other unusual markets (namely the CSD market, which Bush rather carefully avoided naming- what a crappy president)- and restore credit.

However, this will not change the fact that real estate is falling. Furthermore, since real wages have fallen, and jobs are being lost, there’s nothing to stop the real estate market from additional decline. How much? Who knows. No one knows how much additional decline the markets can take.

I think the approach needs to address both sides of the equation- restoring credit markets by buying up CSD contracts, and propping up real estate by making the federal government the owner of non-performing real estate loans. Addressing only one side of the equation runs the risk of failure.

It might be too late already. Spending $700 billion in the CSD market or housing only to see them collapse anyway would be a bad outcome too. In other words, is the depression inevitable, or is there a plan that can work. Well, I hope some smart people can make something work.

By the way, David, you’ve been right about a lot of things involving the perils of debt. Reading your articles made me much more aware of the problem over the past few years. The specific way this collapse went down was unexpected, but it’s a result that has been predicted by a lot of people. Good call. How I wish you had not right!

Posted by: phx8 at September 24, 2008 11:33 PM
Comment #264274

Jim M, your comments get more hilarious by the day. First, I haven’t a clue what MoveOn.Org is saying. But, I can tell you this, if at 12 Noon tomorrow in Kansas, I and MoveOn.org happen to agree that it is daylight, it neither establishes that MoveOn.Org is repeating what I report, or that I am repeating what MoveOn.org reports. It simply means that it is 12 Noon in Kansas and the Sun is apparent.

That republican desire to brand any and everything not in lock step with them as the enemy, is one of the major factors costing the GOP the moderate and independent voters. Such divisive tactics worked for awhile, but, as a famous Republican once said, you can’t fool all the people all the time. But, if you feel you have to keep trying, by all means, have at it. :-)

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 24, 2008 11:39 PM
Comment #264278

phx8,

Don’t forget the drop in the housing market caused by the elimination of 100% loans. Whether you agree with that program stopping or not, you can’t deny that those loans no longer being available mean fewer mortgages are being written and fewer houses being sold…

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 24, 2008 11:46 PM
Comment #264298

David,
You might be right about McCain going to DC to save his campaign, but that still doesn’t explain the need for McCain to have totally suspended his campaign, or try to cancel this debate, or push back or eliminate the VP debate entirely.

Obama obviously doesn’t think those steps were at all necessary. He made this statement directly:

“I believe we should continue to have the debate. I believe it makes sense for us to present ourselves to the American people. Obviously if it turns out that we need to be in Washington, we’ve both got big planes, we’ve painted our slogan on the side of them. They can get us from Washington to Mississippi pretty quickly.”

Also another statement from his campaign:

“A few moments ago, President Bush called Senator Obama and asked him to attend a meeting in Washington tomorrow, which he agreed to do. Senator Obama has been working all week with leaders in Congress, Secretary Paulsen, and Chairman Bernanke to improve this proposal, and he has said that he will continue to work in a bipartisan spirit and do whatever is necessary to come up with a final solution. He strongly believes the debate should go forward on Friday so that the American people can hear from their next President about how he will lead America forward at this defining moment for our country,” said Obama-Biden spokesman Bill Burton.

Bush is calling Obama because he’s been working on this issue. As late as yesterday, McCain still hadn’t even read the administration’s vague three-page bailout proposal (which sounded exactly like it was set up to become another one of their trademark fascistic abuses of power).

Don’t you agree that while McCain’s presence on The Hill might seem necessary to the GOP and himself, there was no rational reason to have suspended his campaign, or cancel the debate?
To me it seems transparently clear that he is ridiculously grandstanding on the one hand, and running away in fear — both of his unpreparedness to debate Obama on the economy, and due to a clear desire to allow Palin’s programers to try to cram a bit more info into that empty head of hers.

Btw, it sounds like Obama is going to show up with or without McCain. And maybe this is because Ole Miss Officials: Debate Cancellation Would Be $5.5 Million Loss.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 25, 2008 12:08 AM
Comment #264304

No confidence in the Bush administration. No confidence in the Bill put forth by the Bush Administration. Confidence in the American people.

Bypass the overgrown financial behemoths and speculators looking at a get rich quick scam. Get the money to those with mortgage problems, to snmall business owners needing credit to survive and grow. Give money to the unemployed.

To just buy up the bad assets of these financial companies will not solve the overall problem. This crisis is a scam that will result in an embarrassment to the Government and a windfall for the speculators.

Any bill that contains no judicial review and no congressional oversight should be thrown out without any discussion. Any administration that puts forth such a plan should be thrown out of office. That is what the Congressional debate should be about right now. Only then should we deal with the financial crisis or we will just be doing more of the same next year.

Any bets on how long before we get a bill from this administration that wants to privatize the oversight responsibilities of all financial institutions and get the peoples representatives completely out of the picture.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 25, 2008 12:18 AM
Comment #264319

Throw out some calliope music and the smell of cotton candy, and this shell game would feel right at home.
Being paranoid is not a cool way to spend ones’ time, but this whole thing stinks to high heavens! The Bush back-room thugs are hovering in the shadows…. we’re about to be screwed and there isn’t a kiss to be found.
I do have to admit, David, that you’ve called a lot of this, but I don’t have to like it.

Posted by: janedoe at September 25, 2008 12:56 AM
Comment #264320

Great points, j2t2. You wrote:

Any bill that contains no judicial review and no congressional oversight should be thrown out without any discussion. Any administration that puts forth such a plan should be thrown out of office. That is what the Congressional debate should be about right now. Only then should we deal with the financial crisis or we will just be doing more of the same next year.

Any bets on how long before we get a bill from this administration that wants to privatize the oversight responsibilities of all financial institutions and get the peoples representatives completely out of the picture.

Agree completely. The way I see it, Bush is a fascist. Because just like Mussolini, over the past eight years he has been trying to create:

a state which controls all forces acting in nature. We control political forces, we control moral forces we control economic forces, therefore we are a full-blown Corporative state.
The Ministry of Corporations is an institution in virtue of which, in the centre and outside, integral corporation becomes an accomplished fact, where balance is achieved between interests and forces of the economic world. Such a glance is only possible within the sphere of the state, because the state alone transcends the contrasting interests of groups and individuals, in view of co-coordinating them to achieve higher aims. The achievement of these aims is speeded up by the fact that all economic organizations, acknowledged, safeguarded and supported by the Corpo­rative State, exist within the orbit of Fascism; in other terms they accept the conception of Fascism in theory and in practice.
Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 25, 2008 1:13 AM
Comment #264328

VV

a state which controls all forces acting in nature. We control political forces, we control moral forces we control economic forces, therefore we are a full-blown Corporative state.

There is truth in this. It can not be denied that the Bush era has led us in this direction. To me this seems scarier than a period of hard times. It seems almost as though our markets must be performing at peak level at all times or those who would profit are screaming bloody murder. I was always of the impression that markets can not always be good. It is supposed to be those up and down cycles that allow for corrections. I really am not looking forward to or hoping for dire results. Nobody in their right mind would. The worlds financial woes of today are cumulative and have been growing for a few decades. David R has seen the big picture and eventual outcome for a long time now as have I. He is just much more adept at specifics than I. My point is if I, a person of no specific professional level can see the same outcome that someone as knowledgeable as David, well it makes me think that none of this is rocket science. It is indeed complicated, but mostly it is the result of a society that has been molded to believe that with credit all things are possible. That style has been fantastic for the credit profiteers, for the rest of us we are now seeing the end result of years of an overused and abused credit market. The lure of profits overshadowed common sense and we who were suckered into the fold are now being asked to pay the piper for the gross negligence of a few. And one has to wonder if the final outcome of a fascist like corporate state was not a planned end result.

I think that no matter what happens here hard times are in order down the road. Recovery will be slow and centers largely around what approach we as a nation take from here. If we choose more of the same, what we are witnessing today will drag on and likely play itself out over and over. It we choose alternate routes in the area of energy restructure and the resulting jobs, as proposed by Obama, we will at least have an avenue to work out of this mess.

Posted by: RickIL at September 25, 2008 8:22 AM
Comment #264334
The banks will therefore no doubt be looking for one bailout after another from the only pocket deeper than their own, the U.S. government’s. But if the federal government acquiesces, it too could be dragged into the voracious debt cyclone of the mortgage mess. The federal government’s triple A rating is already in jeopardy, due to its gargantuan $9 trillion debt. Before the government agrees to bail out the banks, it should insist on some adequate quid pro quo. In England, the government agreed to bail out bankrupt mortgage bank Northern Rock, but only in return for the bank’s stock. On March 31, 2008, The London Daily Telegraph reported that Federal Reserve strategists were eyeing the nationalizations that saved Norway, Sweden and Finland from a banking crisis from 1991 to 1993. In Norway, according to one Norwegian adviser, “The law was amended so that we could take 100 percent control of any bank where its equity had fallen below zero.”6 If their assets were “marked to market,” some major Wall Street banks could already be in that category.

Excerpt from this article

Posted by: womanmarine at September 25, 2008 8:58 AM
Comment #264350

womanmarine

An excellent article you linked to. Thanks. I am including this little bit. I can not imagine how anyone with even a lick of decency could allow this transpire. It speaks very accuarately to the character of these worthless leeches on society.

When the smartest guys in the room designed their credit default swaps, they forgot to ask one thing - what if the parties on the other side of the bet don’t have the money to pay up? Credit default swaps (CDS) are insurance-like contracts that are sold as protection against default on loans, but CDS are not ordinary insurance.

Insurance companies are regulated by the government, with reserve requirements, statutory limits, and examiners routinely showing up to check the books to make sure the money is there to cover potential claims. CDS are private bets, and the Federal Reserve from the time of Alan Greenspan has insisted that regulators keep hands off.

The sacrosanct free market would supposedly regulate itself. The problem with that approach is that regulations are just rules. If there are no rules, the players can cheat; and cheat they have, with a gambler’s addiction. In December 2007, the Bank for International Settlements reported derivative trades tallying in at $681 trillion - ten times the gross domestic product of all the countries in the world combined. Somebody is obviously bluffing about the money being brought to the game, and that realization has made for some very jittery markets.

621 trillion dollars in potentially bad bets. And they hope to use our money to stall this thing until they can come up with and answer to what I consider a criminal dilemma created by those who would play us for everything we have and not blink once while doing so. I think we are dealing with disgusting vile creatures.

Posted by: RickIL at September 25, 2008 10:58 AM
Comment #264354

Rick:

Some more things I find disturbing:

U.S. to lose financial superpower status

Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose conservatives rule in coalition with the SPD, and Steinbrueck both pushed the Group of Eight (G8) to agree measures to boost financial market transparency during Germany’s presidency of the G8 last year.

But their drive collapsed amid opposition from Washington and London. Merkel criticized their stance at the weekend, saying the days of laissez-faire capitalism were over.

Both Merkel’s conservatives and SPD leaders are keen to claim credit for Germany’s push for more transparency and show leadership on the crisis ahead of a federal election in 2009.

The German views were echoed by leaders of governments from around the world meeting this week at the United Nations in New York. Many sharply criticized the George W. Bush administration’s financial record and warned that U.S. financial mistakes now threatened the global economy.

New home sales plummet in August, prices tumble

WASHINGTON - New home sales tumbled in August to the slowest pace in 17 years, while the average sales price fell by the largest amount on record, demonstrating the depth of the problem that Washington is trying to solve.

That housing slump has contributed to a record surge in mortgage defaults, leading to billions of dollars in losses by financial firms and spawning a severe credit crisis that is threatening to send the country into a steep recession.

Besides the weak housing report, the government said Thursday that new claims for unemployment benefits shot up last week to the highest level in seven years. Orders to factories for big-ticket manufactured goods fell by a much-bigger-amount than expected amount of 4.5 percent in August. Both indicate the rising pressures facing the economy.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 25, 2008 11:09 AM
Comment #264362

womanmarine

I am hearing now that a deal is almost done. I am not sure what to think. I still am not convinced that this is any sort of an answer. I fear it will be nothing more than the largest band aid ever. I listen to the BBC most every morning and what you post here is pretty much what I have been hearing in their responses to our situation. The dollar is going to devalue regardless and is already doing so. Inflation is happening and I suspect will get worse. We taxpayers have been defrauded by the people who manage our financial markets and we get to foot the bill and probably suffer for years if not a decade or more. I guess that is what we get for electing the likes of Bush not once but twice. It will be very interesting to see where we go from here. I think we may be on the fringes of approaching what seems to me like a sort of European like dissonance. Maybe, just maybe we as citizens are moving away from complacency and are finally growing some balls, so to speak.

Posted by: RickIL at September 25, 2008 11:30 AM
Comment #264375

Rick:

womanmarine

An excellent article you linked to.

Co-sign. Thanks for posting that link, woman.

Posted by: Veritas Vincit at September 25, 2008 11:57 AM
Comment #264379

David Remer wrote; “That republican desire to brand any and everything not in lock step with them as the enemy, is one of the major factors costing the GOP the moderate and independent voters.”

David, I enjoy your sweeping statements that by your very utterance supposedly makes them true. I have seen little of moderation in the controlling liberal wing of the dem party and some of the parties staunchest supporters have left in disgust. As Zell Miller and others have said of their departure, “I didn’t leave the party, the party left me”. Polls I respect and read reveal just the opposite happening with moderates and independents.

David, you have acquired a cadre of followers on this site and perhaps you should consider a run for some office. j2t2 could perhaps become one of your strategists.

j2t2 writes; “Give money to the unemployed.” WOW, now there is a plan worthy of a great thinker. Since we already send tax refund checks to those who don’t pay income taxes it only makes sense to send more money to those who don’t work.

Posted by: Jim M at September 25, 2008 12:04 PM
Comment #264390

Okay, somebody explain what this claim of “sending refund checks to those who don’t pay income tax” actually means? I keep seeing it posted over and over again. When I did my parents’ taxes that never happened for them so wondering if I missed something?

Posted by: womanmarine at September 25, 2008 12:49 PM
Comment #264403

Good question womanmarine, just visit the obama website for your answers. It is a scheme by which liberals give tax refunds to those who don’t pay taxes because their earned income and family status meets a requirement set up by congress.

In tax year 2007, a married couple with at least two children who earn up to $39,783 in wages can qualify for an EITC (earned income tax credit) of $4,716. You will find in Obama’s explanation of his proposed tax reduction to 95% of American’s that 40% (I am using this percentage from memory as I didn’t want to go back to his site to verify) of those affected are the same folks who already enjoy the EITC.

In essence, what Obama describes as a tax refund for 95% of American’s includes not only a zero tax liability, but a check from my pocket and yours for another handout of $4,716.

Posted by: Jim M at September 25, 2008 1:19 PM
Comment #264405

Correction; my statement; “In essence, what Obama describes as a tax refund for 95% of American’s includes not only a zero tax liability, but a check from my pocket and yours for another handout of $4,716.” should have read,

“a check from my pocket and yours to increase the already existing handout of $4,716.” And, the handout is reduced if one has fewer than two children, is a single parent, or single with no children.

Posted by: Jim M at September 25, 2008 1:25 PM
Comment #264409

womanmarine

These folks are following in McCain fashion of creating half truths in order to confuse anyone who might listen. Once again their party has let them down for the umpteenth time during this Bush presidency. They will now be held accountable for allowing this financial condition to transpire and its after effects which will surely haunt us for years.

Posted by: RickIL at September 25, 2008 1:32 PM
Comment #264419

Jim M:

You’re honestly trying to tell me that folks get more money back than was put in? Show me.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 25, 2008 2:04 PM
Comment #264420

Jim M,

Don’t forget what the plan will do to retirees. There is no mistake why Obama is lying about McCain’s plans and his stance on SS, he need to deflect what his plans will do to them…

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 25, 2008 2:04 PM
Comment #264430

Another interesting take, per Lou Dobbs:

The major Wall Street ratings firms played a big, and largely
overlooked, role in creating the current economic crisis.
Ratings companies are supposed accurately and impartially
analyze the books of financial institutions. But they failed to
do that. Instead these reckless firms signed off on the health
of companies like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Lehman Brothers
again and again, much the same way that Enron’s accountants
said everything was fine right up to its complete collapse.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 25, 2008 2:36 PM
Comment #264434

Jim M: You’re honestly trying to tell me that folks get more money back than was put in? Show me.
Posted by: womanmarine at September 25, 2008 02:04 PM

Thanks for asking womanmarine, I know it sounds too outrageous to be true, but here’s a credible link. Of course you can get the same info at the IRS website if you’re willing to wade thru it. After verifying the info at this link I suggest you visit the obama website and read how 40% of the 95% of American’s he says will get tax cuts includes increases to those already getting the EITC. The next time you read or hear Obama talking about tax cuts you will understand that he is promoting increasing the amount of cash being sent to those who pay no taxes.

When you help your parents file their tax returns keep in mind that they and you and me are all funding this government largess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_Income_Tax_Credit

Posted by: Jim M at September 25, 2008 2:45 PM
Comment #264441

To back up Jim M, the Wikipedia entry on Negative Income Tax.

While the notion has long been popular in some circles, its implementation has never been politically feasible. This is partly because of the very complex and entrenched nature of most countries’ current tax laws: they would have to be rewritten under any NIT system. However, some countries have seen the introduction of refundable (or non-wastable) tax credits which can be paid even when there is no tax liability to be offset, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit in the United States and working tax credit in the UK. Under President Richard Nixon, a NIT proposal almost made it though Congress. At first Friedman lobbied hard for it, but when the NIT proposal was going to be in addition to the current system, instead of in place of it, Friedman ended up fighting it.
Posted by: Rhinehold at September 25, 2008 2:59 PM
Comment #264452

Here are a few more recommended government handouts from obama’s website. I would ask my liberal friends if this government largess qualifies as pandering for votes? And, can we afford to be this generous considering our current fiscal crisis? And finally, do my liberal friends have no problem justifying the theft of legal corporate profits from energy companies? Keep in mind that those stolen profits belong to the stockholders of those companies. The stockholders may be you or me or part of our retirement fund or a university endowment fund or union pension fund. Would you steal from your own mother if she holds stock just to satisfy the beast? And, what about the employees of energy companies? Would you steal from your fellow workers?

If profits are stolen from the stockholders who may be your father, mother, child or hard-working persons retirement fund, please explain how that is considered “fair”. Feed the beast, support the beast, vote for the beast and you will surely get more of the same from the beast. What’s next, a raid on the legitimate profits of stockholders owning pharmaceuticals, insurance, banking, agriculture, telecoms, transportation, etc.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden’s Plan
Jumpstart the Economy

* Enact a Windfall Profits Tax to Provide a $1,000 Emergency Energy Rebate to American Families:Barack Obama and Joe Biden will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills. This relief would be a down payment on the Obama-Biden long-term plan to provide middle-class families with at least $1,000 per year in permanent tax relief.
* Provide $50 billion to Jumpstart the Economy and Prevent 1 Million Americans from Losing Their Jobs: This relief would include a $25 billion State Growth Fund to prevent state and local cuts in health, education, housing, and heating assistance or counterproductive increases in property taxes, tolls or fees. The Obama-Biden relief plan will also include $25 billion in a Jobs and Growth Fund to prevent cutbacks in road and bridge maintenance and fund school re­pair - all to save more than 1 million jobs in danger of being cut.

Provide Middle Class Americans Tax Relief

Obama and Biden will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.

* Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama and Biden will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama and Biden will create a new “Making Work Pay” tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The “Making Work Pay” tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.
* Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000: Barack Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This proposal will eliminate income taxes for 7 million seniors and provide these seniors with an average savings of $1,400 each year. Under the Obama-Biden plan, 27 million American seniors will also not need to file an income tax return.

Posted by: Jim M at September 25, 2008 3:28 PM
Comment #264477

Transcript of part 1 of WJClinton on Letterman earlier in the week:

“When the bubble in high tech stocks burst in 2001 or so there was a lot of money in the economy at low interest rates, because the Federal Reserve was trying to keep economic activity going. The only problem was that the only activity was in housing, real estate. That was 40-50 % of our growth in the first five years, so all the money went in there. Then, in order to get more and more money and more and more people into it, they developed, the finance people did, these derivatives, these interesting instruments where you could cover more and more loans at smaller and smaller reserves, so the leverage that is, you had 30 times as many loans as you had money to back it up…you had an instrument which would in effect, represent, let’s say 30 houses, but you only had enough money to cover one. That’s leverage.

The subprime is different. It was a way of getting more people to borrow money to buy homes who wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage under traditional circumstances. So, we’d say to people, look, we’ll loan you money for just the interest on the mortgage for three years, but you’ll have to pay a higher interest rate and after three years, you’ll have to renegotiate, and you’ll have to pay your mortgage off like everybody else. So for three years, John Doe pays his mortgage at, I’m making this up, $800 a month, and all of a sudden, in year four, he’s told, well, you’ve signed this mortgage and now it’s now $1400 a month, and he says, but I haven’t gotten a raise, and gasoline is more, utilities are more, food is more, health care is more, I can’t make this mortgage payment. So you go around and foreclose on people. All these things are happening together. That’s what Seccretary Paulson, and Chairman Bernake are trying to do by stopping the hemmoraghing, but it’s not enough to bail out Wall Street, you’ve also got to help Main street, and we’ve gotta have a source of new good investment for new jobs again.”

Posted by: ohrealy at September 25, 2008 6:03 PM
Comment #264479

Jim M

I would ask my liberal friends if this government largess qualifies as pandering for votes? And, can we afford to be this generous considering our current fiscal crisis?

Why not Jim. These things aren’t pandering they are what people desire and need. It seems like the sky is the limit now days. If we can borrow a trillion for wall street welfare why can’t we borrow a trillion or two in efforts to make our country a better place to live. Whats another couple trillion to a country that is already 10 trillion in debt? I wouldn’t worry about it, just a very short time ago McCain, Bush, Paulson and Bernacke were telling us the economy was sound and that the markets will correct themselves in due time. They just failed to mention that correction would need a slight assist.

Posted by: RickIL at September 25, 2008 6:35 PM
Comment #264480

Transcript of part 1 of WJClinton on Letterman earlier in the week:

“It was well intended to put more money out there, by the Federal Reserve, because they didn’t want a recession to occur, because we had an inevitable downturn in the high technology stocks in 2001-2002. But what happens is you put a whole lot more money in the economy, it needs somewhere to go, right? And if you were working on Wall St, let’s say, and your income depends on how many deals you do. You get paid by a percent of how many deals you do. If all the deals to be done are in real estate, you keep trying to get people to buy more house, buy more commercial buildings, and you then do something called leveraging, that is, you try to make sure that the money you’ve got will buy more and more and more, by just having to keep smaller and smaller margins. Everything’s great until it goes down. Then it hits the fan, which is what has happened. It’s sort of like basic physics, what goes up will come down, and what happened is a lot of these investment houses were overly tied to these fragile investments. We should have had tougher regulation with more reserves required, more guarantees to stop somethign from collapsing this much. Didn’t happen, and we also didn’t have a lot of other investment opportunities for them. If they’d been able to invest in like a clean energy future, this never would have happened…We weren’t giving the right kind of incentives in the beginning of the decade.

In fairness to a lot of the people who made these decisions…to take your money I want to earn good money on this money you gave me. If their had been a real economic policy that was not just concentrated on making rich people richer, by cutting their taxes, and putting more money into real estate, you could have made money by investing in solar power. Let’s suppose we were given a ten year credit for people who wanted to make solar and wind and energy conservation the order of the day. Then your investment would have been creating jobs, in the real economy. People would have been able to afford the old fashioned home mortgages. You would have eventually gotten your money back, and we wouldn’t have had this collapse. There was an underlying problem in that there weren’t enough good opportunities, and there were too many bad incentives….

I think we’re getting this thing straightened out financially, but the point is, we’re still going to have real problems , unless we …have a moritorium on these home mortgage foreclosures and work these thingsut so these good hard working people who can make A mortgage payment, get a chance to make a payment they can make. Otherwise, you’re going to have 2 million people foreclosed on this year, 2 million next year. If you want to know what that does to the economy, mulitiply every home by $225,000. That’s the cost to the economy when you foreclose.”

Posted by: ohrealy at September 25, 2008 6:36 PM
Comment #264483

Transcript of part 3 of WJClinton on Letterman Sept. 22:

“…I don’t think the American taxpayers are doing this just to save Wall Street and big banks, and, they should understand that they should want them saved because over half of the American people have a direct or indirect stake in the stock market. And if you want the economy to grow over the long run, people have ot be able to go some place and get a loan to start up a business or expand it… We need a government agency that does what they did in the Depression, which is figure out how to rewrite the terms of the mortgages so people can pay it, and as they pay off their mortgages can kick some of that money back to the government. The taxpayers actually made money from an agency Franklin Rossevelt set up called the Homeowner’s Loan Corp… HOLC, because they stopped all these people from being thrown in the street. That’s what we ought to do now…

…You’ve go to make sure that this helps ordinary people, as well as Wall st, and in the end, Wall st should want that. We’re never going to fix this economy unless we slow down these home mortgage foreclosures, and then start giving people something good to invest in for the future.

…The American people deserve a stable financial system and they deserve a turn around and while I know you’re all scared … it’s a mistake to bet against America. Everybody that has bet against America in the last 200 years has lost money… We always do the right thing after discarding all the other alternatives… What is going belly up is a heavily leveraged financial system. We have to clean up the problems in regulation… We need investment opportunities that create jobs, in a real economy, so that you don’t always just try to make money out of money. That’s what leads to all this pyramiding, all these derivatives…

Posted by: ohrealy at September 25, 2008 7:06 PM
Comment #264484

Ohrealy quotes Bill Clinton; “Otherwise, you’re going to have 2 million people foreclosed on this year, 2 million next year. If you want to know what that does to the economy, mulitiply every home by $225,000. That’s the cost to the economy when you foreclose.”

I must assume that Bill believes a foreclosed home is worthless.

If I am not mistaken, it will take not only a senate vote, but also a house vote to approve any bailout scheme. I believe the house will be a much tougher sell for spending $700B of taxpayer money to bail out the financial markets. For me, I’ll wait until I see the house/senate compromise bill before making a thumbs up or down decision.

Since we can’t or won’t develop our own oil resources would anyone object to selling leases to the highest national or international bidder. That would raise a few dollars. We’re not broke yet as a country despite all the negative talk. Let’s take the lease money and put it into an all out new technology program combined with building new nuclear power stations.

We could put a lot of American’s to work at good wages using other people’s money from the leases and since we’ve been told by many that oil will soon be unneeded, sell it now…not at sale prices ten years from now.

In addition to the price of the lease, we can demand royalty on every barrel produced much as we do now. This money can help reduce the billions we are now paying for foreign oil.

Naw…that’s a crappy idea and the MMGW crowd would rather us slip into recession or worse than to do something so drastic with our own resources.

Posted by: Jim M at September 25, 2008 7:09 PM
Comment #264490

“j2t2 writes; “Give money to the unemployed.” WOW, now there is a plan worthy of a great thinker. Since we already send tax refund checks to those who don’t pay income taxes it only makes sense to send more money to those who don’t work.”

Ahh Jim M so quick to take things out of context.
“Bypass the overgrown financial behemoths and speculators looking at a get rich quick scam. Get the money to those with mortgage problems, to snmall business owners needing credit to survive and grow. Give money to the unemployed.”

Poor Jim M so quick to bait, so off topic and wrong as usual. It must be hard to watch your failed unregulated free market ideology go up in smoke while the feds step in to the tune of $700b of taxpayer money. I would divert others attention to Obama’s tax plan too.


Posted by: j2t2 at September 25, 2008 7:51 PM
Comment #264492

VV, sorry for hurting your feelings. You did stop posting so many links without comments though so thanks. Much better reading.

Posted by: Honest at September 25, 2008 8:00 PM
Comment #264524

Was wondering, had Bush and the GOP gotten their wish and privatized Social Security, what condition would the system be in today?????

Posted by: milehimike at September 25, 2008 10:29 PM
Comment #264547
The only language that Congress and the Bush Administration our government understand is pressure from the American people. Taxpayers must march and protest, legally and without violence, in front of Congress and the White House our government in numbers that will force Congress and Bush our government to forego the blatantly dangerous bailout proposal that Paulson our government has brought before Congress our government. Congress and the Bush Administration Our government must be pressured by the American people into a more sensible solution to the present financial crisis, other than indebting the American taxpayer further and compromising the future of every American student. The internet should serve the purpose of calling for every American taxpayer possible to head immediately to Washington D.C. to march and protest against further indebting the American taxpayer with an absurd $700 million dollar bailout of unscrupulous individuals and financial institutions. Millions of taxpayers should march and protest in front of Congress and the White House our government immediately. Please send this e-mail to someone you know. Thank you!


Posted by: Steve Johnson at September 24, 2008 01:44 PM

Thank you, Steve Johnson. I think I said it better.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 26, 2008 12:46 AM
Comment #264548

Our government has made it easier now, because it is concentrated in one city, Washington, D.C. Maryland.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 26, 2008 12:50 AM
Comment #264561

milehimike,

Was wondering, had Bush and the GOP gotten their wish and privatized Social Security, what condition would the system be in today?????

Better off than it is now.


Posted by: Rhinehold at September 26, 2008 8:35 AM
Comment #264592

“Poor Jim M so quick to bait, so off topic and wrong as usual. It must be hard to watch your failed unregulated free market ideology go up in smoke while the feds step in to the tune of $700b of taxpayer money. I would divert others attention to Obama’s tax plan too.” Posted by: j2t2 at September 25, 2008 07:51 PM

j2t2, I can’t quite tell if my supposed diversion of attention to Obama’s tax plan is, in your opinion, an admission of how bad the plan is or something else.

As of this moment I don’t believe you can accurately predict what plan is going to be passed by congress so perhaps you are rather “quick to bait”.

Posted by: Jim M at September 26, 2008 11:47 AM
Comment #264606

“j2t2, I can’t quite tell if my supposed diversion of attention to Obama’s tax plan is, in your opinion, an admission of how bad the plan is or something else.”

Supposed diversion Jim M? Slow down on the kool aid my friend and look over the thread again.

“As of this moment I don’t believe you can accurately predict what plan is going to be passed by congress so perhaps you are rather “quick to bait”.”

No one can predict the final version of Obamas tax plan Jim M yet you continue to rail about it as if what you stated was fact and not fiction.Or if you have decided to get on topic about the bail out then what does a lack of a final plan have to do with baiting? I had suggested additions to what Lou Dobbs had said, a trickle up plan that included those put out of work by the economic meltdown, those losing their houses due to the credit cruch and small business’s folding due to a lack of credit and was on topic as AP was discussing alternatives to the Bush plan.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2008 1:04 PM
Comment #264630

“Better off than it is now.”

spoken like a true rightie Rhinehold, is that because of your excessive trust in wall street despite the dismal facts of this crisis and the overall gains in the stockmarket this past yea…oh wait it can’t be that can it?

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2008 2:04 PM
Comment #264752

Renegotiating the loans does not resolve the problem. The problem being that the credit markets were 500 transactions away from locking up and collapsing the global economy and the fed HAD to act and congress HAS to act.

30 to 1 leverage do you believe it? And Obama among others arguing that Fani and Fredi should have LESS regulation. My how soon Obama forgets his own record. And I say that just to point out that it was EASY MONEY and ALL OF THEM were in on it. Congress is mostly to blame and that means going back many years through BOTH PARTIES.

Government has failed us. Both parties have failed us. And if we fail to do this bail out….well can your job survive a global depression? I think mine and my wife’s can and would….but I don’t want to see so many others suffer so much.

The bail out plan stunk. I’m confident that what emerges from congress will be far superior to what Bush put forward and will resolve some problems, not just be the bailout to wall street we are forced to do.

Posted by: Stephen at September 27, 2008 11:21 AM
Post a comment