Democrats & Liberals Archives

What I find funny and a bit scary is the redneck response to the Obama jugernaut. “They’ll shoot him before he takes office”, It’s a complete disconnect from reality. A world they cannot accept, thus the homicidal fantasy.

The whole thing I see IMO is the media is treating BHO like a Hollywood celeb. No other Dem in the past has had this much media coverage.

The whole thing I see IMO is the media is treating BHO like a Hollywood celeb. No other Dem in the past has had this much media coverage.

Posted by: KAP at August 3, 2008 09:28 AM

????????? Can’t figure it out???????

KAP, were you not in the US when ‘W’ ran for office in 2000?

You find it puzzling that America is excited about a candidate who is actually and radically different than the most despised and least popular President in history? Most find McCain more of the same. You would be excited about that?

It isn’t that puzzling. Frustrating for McCain and loyal Republicans, certainly…. but not puzzling.

LIBRick
I’m not excited about either one of them. Reps have an old buzzard and the Dems have an inexperienced twit flip flopper. SO WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO BE EXCITED ABOUT?????????????????????

The comparison of BHO to Britney also occurred to me a while ago, when I found out that a video that I was enjoying was a song that had been originally written for Britney Spears. Talented people can help create and promote a person as a product, but people don’t make very good products. The media turns them into heroes or villains or victims to sell products, or keep people tuned into the 24 hour news cycle.

When a guy blows his nose, or brushes his shoulder, and get cheered for it, that is irrational. The author of this article has also praised this celebrity politician on this same basis. That is the reaction of a fan to a celebrity, and has nothing to do with rational political discourse.

If I made a list of senators that I would vote into the highest office in the land, BHO would be far down the list. If Dick Durbin had decided to run for the Presidency, the day after being elected to the Senate, people would think he was crazy, or part of some other agenda. BHO is being given a pass by people who have apparently never met anyone like him, “a young whippersnapper, a pretender, a cheat”(Carol Mosely Braun’s words). They are his fans, and he is their idol, and can do no wrong.

Although I have always been nervous about Barack, I will support him and do everything I can in my state to insure his election.

My hesitation about him has nothing to do with his inexperience. We have had experience before and it hasn’t served us well. I believe he is intelligent, thoughtful, and a good communicator. This I believe will serve him well as it will enable him to surround himself with experienced people.

My concern about him is that he is a politican and I believe we tend to forget that. Politicans have never served us well and will say and do anything to get elected. However, in my book, we need to elect someone radically different than what we have, someone who (i hope) will take on lobbyist and break the control that corportations now hold over the American people. I believe that Barack is more likely to do that than John McCain.

I do not feel that our country can afford to continue the republican policies that are crippling us socially, economically, and internationally.

IMO Barack is not the “second coming” that others seem to believe he but is he is above and beyond our other choices for president.

Carolina: Radically different? When you vote for Democrats or Republicans, you get + or - the statis quo, not radically different. Contrary to popular belief, Obama is not an atypical Democratic politician.

Obama and the Democrats won’t even make an attempt to break the control that the corporations have on the American people. He and they couldn’t do that, wouldn’t do that.

Obama’s energy policy—- corporate ethanol, corporate wind farms, corporate solar farms, corporate nuclear plants, corporate etc.

Despite Obama’s success at collecting money from small contributors, it will be the big donor and corporate money that put’s him in the Whitehouse.

I forgot to add corporate offshore oil drilling to Obama’s energy policy.

jlw-
The problem is not corporations, but how they are allowed to dictate policy. I’m not real certain you could get any energy solution without come kind of corporate involvement.

It will be both big money and small, but it will more small donor money than any other candidate in history has raised. In my book the perfect should not be the enemy of the better. The people will have more sway over his decisions than with most candidates of recent times.

KAP-
What really puzzles me is people who claim to be independent, yet continue to trust what is basically the political propaganda of those they were alienated from. You aren’t truly independent in those cases until you look past things.

As far as inexperience goes, that can be a plus when those with experience have taken to heart the wrong lessons. America needs a fresh start more than than it needs the wisdom of a generation of politicians that have taken the wrong lessons to heart.

Stephen
We had an inexperienced President for 7.5 years, now you want another one in office? God help us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KAP-
I have much more faith in the man who graduated Magna Cum Laude and taught constitutional law at a tier one university than a C-Average Business School Graduate who’s only success was a land speculation scheme centered on the Ranger’s then new stadium, and whose previous political office was being Governor of Texas. (FYI, in our state, being governor is kind of like being queen of England. Not much real power)

KAP:

The whole thing I see IMO is the media is treating BHO like a Hollywood celeb.

And how exactly is the way that some are treating Obama in the media become the fault of Obama? Just because some reporters are choosing to hang on his every word and movement as though he is some kind of a pop celebrity (because of his rhetorical gifts and the crowds that are showing up to listen), doesn’t mean he isn’t a man of real substance and intelligence. Anyone who takes a moment to look through all the information outlined on his website, or goes even further and chooses to download and read everything that has been posted there in pdf format, should be able to grasp that this is a candidate who has put a great deal of careful thought and hard work into drafting his proposed policies for the country.
McCain’s website and info is pretty pathetic and laughable by comparison.

No other Dem in the past has had this much media coverage.

Maybe no other Democrat, but one former movie star celebrity Republican who went on to win the presidency certainly did: Ronald Reagan.

the Dems have an inexperienced twit

Obama is very obviously no twit. He’s received the kind of education that most of us expect from an American president. A truly top notch education, and the demonstrated display of real intelligence that has put McCain’s lack of education, and lack of demonstrable intelligence during this campaign to complete shame.

flip flopper.

Care to tell us how Obama is considered by you to be a flip-flopper? Is it because he’s honest enough to admit that he is likely going to have to make compromises on some of his positions in order to move this country forward?
I find the attempt to apply this term to Obama pretty damn laughable. Especially when his opponent has been flip-flopping like a salmon swimming up stream on so many positions he once claimed to take! In fact, McCain has now made himself so confused on his variously changed positions, he’s been flip-flopping about the flip flops he transparently made to appease the GOP simply for this election! I believe he honestly can’t remember what he thinks, or what he’s supposed to be pretending to think, at this point in time.

Stephen
Granted he’s smart, but smart doesn’t mean experience. I’ve seen a lot of men just as smart or smarter than BHO have the common sence of a piss ant.

VV
BHO is eatting up that media coverage like a kid in a candy shop. His latest flip flop is about the offshore drilling and exploration for oil here in the U.S. you call comprimise. Like I said he’s smart but smart don’t mean experience. I know a lot of you writers here are smart and had good educations but Presidential material, I’m affraid NOT.

Like I said he’s smart

Look KAP, you can’t have it both ways here. Obama can’t be smart AND a twit at the same time. The slang definition of the word twit is a foolish or stupid person.
So which one are you going to choose? Is Obama smart, or is he stupid and foolish?

but smart don’t mean experience.

True, but Obama certainly seems intelligent enough to be a quick study in areas where he lacks a great deal of experience. He’s also surrounding himself with people who are more experienced than he is on various issues. Btw, the same was said of FDR, who replied with:

I’m not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues.

Which he certainly did, and FDR turned out to be a pretty damn good president for this country.

On the other hand, for all of McCain’s experience in Washington, he hasn’t been demonstrating an intelligence similar to Obama’s, or an ability to be a quick study, or even to be a person who knows how to pick out smart colleagues that can honestly and wisely advise him in areas where he’s clearly lacking a depth of knowledge.
One example: choosing Phil Gramm to advise him on economic policy and the mortgage crisis, while Gramm was being paid by UBS to lobby Congress to roll back state rules that were intended to hold back the rise of predatory tactics by mortgage lenders! And nobody working for the McCain campaign managed to catch that? I mean, come on!

I know a lot of you writers here are smart and had good educations but Presidential material, I’m affraid NOT.

I honestly don’t think you could be more wrong, KAP. I think Obama has been demonstrating that he possesses really good presidential material, and in a lot more ways than just one.

KAP-
1) Inexperience is a correctable deficiency. A lack of intelligence is not.

2) A Lack of intelligence makes a long history of experience less valuable, and permanently so. A lack of experience can undermine the benefits of intelligence, but experience can be gained, and better used by the person who has brains.

3) There are a great number of very experienced politicians and political operators who got us into this mess in the first place, McCain included. All their experience seems to have taught them is to draw the wrong conclusions and artfully dig our country deeper into the various holes.

4) No candidate here has specific experience in the type of office the election is being. Whoever is elected, there will be no person in the White House who’s been a mayor of a small town, much less a governor, or a president in another term. The candidate of experience has no experience in the line of work he’s gunning for.

5) The evidence is, McCain has not altogether benefitted from his experience. It’s the old guy, not the whippersnapper who’s gone negative first, who’s gotten aggressive, whose age-won wisdom seems to lead to long silences following tough questions, and off the cuff remarks where the candidate should have been keeping his mouth shut. Experience is only valuable where it’s earned good judgment. McCain has proven a rather imprudent candidate.

S.D., you forgot to mention how “articulate” BHO is in your short list of
1. Intellegence is all that matters. Jimmy Carter was probably the smartest POTUS since Wilson, smartest candidate since Stevenson.
2. Experience comes with the big brain, except your candidate is 46 years old and mostly has lot of experience talking instead of actually doing anything, except talking about how smart he is, how he went to Harvard, the Law Review, both selections not elections.
3. Experience is a ditch digger, inexperience fills in the ditch.
4. Nobody else has any experience specific to the job of POTUS, so why not vote for a guy who claims he runs committes that he’s not on.
5. The whippersnapper is also the trickster, if you get that reference. He takes credit for so much that he never did.

ohrealy
1) Mischaracterized the argument there. I’m obviously saying that a lack of experience can be a problem. I’m just saying its the more solvable of the two problems

2) He doesn’t tend to talk about how smart he is. People tend to infer that from the sophistication of his speaking style and his knowledge of the topics. The real question is, do you want to elect somebody nobody would select for a job?

3)Not particularly clear on what that maxim is supposed to mean. But you know something, experience sometimes means adjusting to realities, and sometimes means adjusting to politics. And we’ve gotten to a point where many of the Democrats and Republicans who have been getting experience in Washington adjusted to politics rather than actual realities.

What people hope about Obama is that he will course correct the politics to a more problem-solving oriented approach. Sometimes, when things have reached a crisis point, people are willing to trade experience for creativity. At such times, the kind of experience you will want is from people taking things in a new direction.

4)+5) Do yourself a favor: don’t let your distrust of Obama become the trust of anything that takes him down a notch. In an election like this, people will come up with pretty stupid crap to beat up the other side’s politicians with. If you’re not careful, you could lend your credibility to something some other trickster thought up to confuse folks like you.

The Republicans utilized such fictional approaches for decade, and Obama, being relatively clean, is a big target for the fictional approach, which in general looks for reasons to bash Obama in everything he says and does. The Republicans recently, unfairly, and untruly criticized him for not going to Landstuhl to visit with the troops. The Pentagon themselves told him not to go, because his visit might be seen as political, and therefore problematic along those lines.

But guess what? They had another set of attacks ready, should he have decided to go! This is what you’re buying into. These people aren’t worried about informing you. They’re worried about leading you around by the nose.

Stop looking for stupid stuff like this. Find something substantive to complain about.

But guess what? They had another set of attacks ready, should he have decided to go! This is what you’re buying into. These people aren’t worried about informing you. They’re worried about leading you around by the nose.

Well said. This one paragraph describes the tactics of the entire GOP campaign agenda. A lack of credible campaign policy that if pursued would reveal GOP failings prevents them from offering anything new. The very act of creativity and wandering off their current failed path would be all too revealing. It would open the door to accountability for failed policy which would be devastating to their efforts. The result is that they really have no other choice than to campaign on the status quo by preying on peoples gull abilities.

Ohrealy confused about Obama? Being led around by the nose by Republicans? That’s classic Stephen.
Isn’t Ohrealy from (in?) Illinois? Isn’t it possible that he has been exposed to much more about Obama and not just the fluff the rest of us have been?

Or is this like with the troops? You know, the only ones worth listening to, are the ones who share the lefts views?

Stephen D.:
“The problem is not corporations, but how they are allowed to dictate policy.”

Who allowes the corporations to dictate policy? Liberal Democrats like Barrak Obama and conservative Republicans like John McCain.

“The people will have more sway over his decisions than with most candidates in recent times.”

You mean like illegal immigration?

How about globalization and the outsourcing of our manufacturing base? Remember, he was against Nafta before he got the nomination and for Nafta afterwards.

Did Obama flip on off shore drilling because he listened to the people’s hysteria induced desires, because he made an honest evaluation that off shore drilling was necessary or because he want’s some of that oil corp money to?

Are all of his flip flops due to honest reevaluations of his positions or because he is trying to reassure the corporations that he is a typical liberal enabler?

“America needs a fresh start more than it needs the wisdom of a generation of politicians that have taken the wrong lessons to heart.”

Electing a Democrat or a Republican is not going to give America a fresh start. America will get a fresh start when the people send the Republicans and the Democrats to the trash bin. Until then, the people deserve politicians like McCain and Obama.

IMO, flip floping is Obama’s way of ensuring the powerful elements that control this country that they have nothing to fear.

At THE NATION website, more than 15,000 progressives have signed a petition calling on Obama to get back in line with those that sent him to the dance and quit flip flop pandering to the corporations. An exercise in futility. Sooner or later, progressives are going to realize that liberals use them like conservatives use the Christian right.

The only people confused about Obama are the people that support him.

The only people confused about McCain are the people that support him.

1. BHO’s tenure makes Dick Durbin look like a great senator, in the real world, but I guess BHO looks better in Imaginationland.

2. Doesn’t talk about how smart he is???
“Barack is a very intelligent man,” Miller(Rich Miller, the publisher of Capitol Fax, a Springfield newsletter) said. “He hasn’t had a lot of success here, and it could be because he places himself above everybody. He likes people to know he went to Harvard.” “He’s had some really good ideas,” Miller admits, noting that Congressman Jan Shakowsky of Evanston was also considered a self-righteous goo-goo in Springfield but came into her own in Washington. “He’d probably make a pretty good congressman.” His intellegence also makes other smart people think he lied or exaggerated his prior drug usage in his semi-fictional bio.

3. The ditch thing was yours not mine. If you’re not sure what it means, then I guess you’re not sure what you are talking about. Would you like me to post another video of Forever Young?

4.5. Your candidate has a serious psychological problem related to his identity, like someone in a mental institution who thinks he’s Napolean or JC. He actually tries to become other people. It doesn’t seem like a good characteristic for a candidate for the presidency.

Cynthia McKinney is the real thing. Most Democrats are women. She should be their choice this year, as she will most likely be mine. I am even looking into voting Green against Jan Shakowsky, who I like and have met several times. If BHO or the other duopoly candidate is elected, it is a guarantee that there will not be substantive change in D.C. Just to mention a few things, the FBI (anthrax), the FDA (tomatoes), and the FCC (corporatism), all need to be changed into something that actually does what they are supposed to do, or should be abolished.

S.D., “Find something substantive to complain about” Thanks for the laugh. On that other stuff yesterday, I blame a nice lady that works at a funeral parlor around Albuquerque, who didn’t upload from her TIVO fast enough for me to finish at TwoP yesterday.

The Congressman thing on Congresswoman Jan Shakowsky is part of the direct quote from the Chicago Reader article, not my choice of words.

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